The After Show: Murder She Wrote: The Kouri Richins Trial

A search gets underway for the missing driver, 19-year-old Sarah Stern.

“Is it a missing person? Is it a suicide? At this point, nobody knows. Old friendships.”

Bear in cash, and a sinister plot that was once pitched as a movie plays out in real life. I'm Juju Chang, from 2020 and ABC Audio. Listen now to Bridge of Lives, wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi everybody, and welcome to 2020 The After Show. I'm Deborah Roberts, and as always,

I'm so delighted that you are with us today to spend some time with us as we take a closer look at one of our 2020 episodes. And this one is truly, truly a jaw dropper. If you saw it, chances are you're still talking about it. And if you didn't, you're going to hear all the details today about an episode called Murder She Wrote, the Corey Richens' trial.

“Now, this one has gained headlines all over the country, really, probably all over the world.”

They grabbed a lot of attention. The story of Corey Richens, a 35-year-old mom and wife from Utah, who seemed to be living the good life.

She had a real estate company. She volunteered in her community and her husband Eric owned a multi-million-dollar Mason Rebusiness.

By all accounts, they were devoted parents, they had three children, and everybody saw them as a kind of a young, successful, happy couple. Well, that was until tragically on March 4, 2022, Eric was shockingly found dead after he and his wife had shared a night cap. While an autopsy would later reveal that he died from a fentanyl overdose, with five times the lethal limit in his system. That's right, five times. His family was in deep grief, and interestingly, a year after Eric's death, Corey Richens published a children's book about grief trying to help her sons cope with the loss of their father.

She even appeared on a local television show. We got an email, wrote into the station. It was Corey saying that she had just written what she believed to be was the first book for kids about coping with grief, and that she would love the chance to share that on good things Utah. My kids and I kind of wrote this book on the different emotions and grieving processes that we had experienced last year. And to make sense and process, I'm sure, yes, exactly. So she seemed to be moving forward in her life and then a breathtaking shocker a month after her media promotion.

Corey is arrested accused of poisoning her husband's drink and charged with his murder. I mean, it was truly like something out of a TV show. This story was one that people were talking about everywhere. And of course, we're still talking about it after we aired it on 2020. So to help us peel back the layers of this unbelievable story. We are turning to our ABC News legal analyst Brian Buckmeyer who reported this piece for 2020 and included some exclusive interviews with Corey's family, a former best friend and all kinds of clips that you're going to hear today that you didn't hear about in that episode.

We're bringing us some new details from inside the courtroom, which is something he does best because you are a lawyer in addition to being a legal analyst for us. Brian, good to see you. Oh, it's a pleasure. Thanks for how. Yeah, always a pleasure. Well, you and I always get to dive into these stories. And I think I saw on your social media where you said, you've covered a lot of strange unusual, you know jaw dropping stories, but this one ranks up there.

How so? Absolutely. Utah always gives us a lot of gems, right? If you're thinking about the social media moms who are arrested and convicted some years ago.

Now, this one, and Utah is grid in the sense of we get cameras in the courts. We get to see a lot. But I don't think we've ever thought about, saw, conceptualized, I think we would ever see a story that involved the death of a father in the death of a husband. And then a children's book that followed it and how long it took for the arrest and then add in their fair add in some insurance fraud, like it just had all of the elements is like, did someone write this story or was this like a real life thing?

Because you wouldn't believe it if somebody had written it, you'd think this has to be fiction. Yeah.

“And that's what I think was so captivating. I think for so many of us, and the conclusion actually just happened in this story.”

And still a little more to come. But before we get to that and get to the court, let's go back to the beginning and understand a little bit more about this couple. Yeah, so court merchants, I think it'll be a court garden at that time when he heard made a name. She's a cash register assistant or cash year at Home Depot.

Means his beautiful young lady, they hit it off years later, they end up having three sons and buy all intents and purposes, at least when the outside looking in looks like they're doing fairly well. His background is a little bit different than hers, right? She comes from more humble beginnings as the prosecutor described it. He comes from a family of cattle ranchers. But they get married and it seems to work out. His business blows up. They have three children. She decides to get into flipping houses and seems to be doing successful in some regards, at least in terms of types of property that she's able to acquire.

And then flip, but clearly we hear about the debts and things of that nature. He is described as an outdoorsy guy. He's coaching his son's basketball and baseball and soccer team.

“From the outside in, this is like, hey, this is like a hallmark movie, right?”

Yeah, yeah, they're making it. They're making it. And of course, this is 2020. So we know there's going to be an end to that making it scenario. So folks think that they're doing pretty well, but clearly behind closed doors things aren't going so well. And we would learn more about that later on when this goes to a trial. But before his death, they were clearly having some ups and downs in that relationship. And then she was also sneakily doing some things in that relationship as well. The hardest all course to the prosecution is that she was bad with the money. The theory the prosecution had was he was killed because she wanted to start a new life with this Josh Grossman, her paramour.

And that the way that they're pre-nup operated, because again, going back to how they come from very different backgrounds, there's a pre-nup before they got married, that she knew that she had to get out of this relationship in a certain way to able to keep the money and keep the kids and keep this new boyfriend of hers. What was interesting, and you hit on a number of things there, and some of those we want to get to later, because a lot of this would be revealed in the trial and in the court case, but before all of this happened and before he is killed, there's an incident that happens just a few weeks before he actually dies.

He becomes ill, and there's a little hint there later on that he thought something was going on with her.

So with most of her homicide cases, you'll see the person is charged with homicide like a murder, and then also a tempting murder, because it's like a lesser included, that's not the case here. Because here, she tried to kill him on Valentine's Day, and then two weeks later, she actually killed him. On Valentine's Day. Yeah, and so the way the story goes out is that she went out to go get a sandwich for him, and here he thinks this is my loving wife, like she's going off. So she goes off, selling homes and making money, but she thought about me on Valentine's Day. He takes a single bite according to some text messages we learned in the trial, feels ill, and I think like most fathers and probably most parents who've got three kids, and then they got to run out, ain't nobody got no time to be sick.

“Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he says he takes his sons, uh, Epipen, hits and it takes like a gulp of like some allergy medication, sleeps it off, and then goes to I think like coaching the kids or something with the kids.”

But in the text messages, we hear him texting some of his friends saying, hey, you almost lost me there. I think my wife might have tried to kill me, and it's those text messages that the prosecution used to say, something happened here. They also use messages and we'll talk about this later about her quote unquote drug dealer, and how another amount of drugs were purchased between the Valentine's Day and the second drugging, where she was asking for some stronger stuff.

Then a couple of weeks later, they're celebrating something or another. She makes them a round of cocktails on March 4th, 2022, everything changes.

So the way this story goes is that they came home, they were celebrating both of their success, namely hers as well. She's about to flip a major property, right? She was supposed to come into a lot of money, and there's supposed to celebrate. Well, if you have kids at home, you understand how celebrating works or parents, you gotta have the weight for the kids to go to sleep, and then you can have your cocktail. Yeah, I've got a three-year-old still living it. But that's a story that one of the kids is having a nightmare. She makes them a drink. She goes into the child's bedroom and stays with him, but she doesn't get up until 3am in the morning, and that's when according to her, she discovers that he had passed away.

And then she calls 911, and the call is kind of interesting. Let's listen. And then we're going to try to forgive her. Okay, tell me exactly what happened.

“Okay, I can't even knock your eyes. I need you to take a deep breath. What's going on?”

Okay, we're going to, can you do CPR? You don't know, I'm going to tell you how to. Are you willing to do CPR? Yeah, okay. Now, you've heard a lot of calls in court over the years.

So as a defense attorney, whenever I hear 911 call or a call or a conversation of selling talking about their grief, my first mindset is, unless I know this person, I do not know how they grieve.

“And so for me to take my measuring stick and say, well, this is what I would do when I would grieve, it's kind of unfair.”

But there are even that aside, you listen to and it's like, this sounds weird. There are the franticness, the tone which it is, and maybe this is like hindsight being excuse the time of 2020. You couldn't help it. Yeah, you could be like, okay, I can see, I can see where she's lying here, I can see where she's not. But when it first came out, you're like,

okay, maybe, yeah, I mean, don't forget for a long time, she was the victim in this case. Of course. And that's the way she was treated. So it sounds like this is a woman who maybe was flailing, trying to sleep. She could help her husband, the 911 operators trying to walk her through compressions and, you know, they would come to the house and, you know, they would discover later on. It didn't look like that had happened.

At the time when they came in, they were shocked. You can see some of the bodyworm camera were like, this is a healthy guy. He's fairly young. And you can see one of the EMTs kind of shrugging the shoulders, you be like, maybe like an aneurysm or something like a sudden death. They were asking questions about his health and medication he takes. She did reveal that he takes TFC gummies.

Don't forget this is the state of Utah, recreational marijuana is illegal, but medicinal is illegal. And so like, he's a mason worker. We clearly know about the opioid epidemic. He's worked with his hands, maybe he has a bad back. Maybe he was given proper drugs to take care of. And then he moved to illegal drugs to help where he could.

But there's no sign of trauma, blunt force trauma or anything like that. Nothing. They're grasping at straws at this point. The authorities are looking into this and they think it could be an accidental overdose. Fenternos. So when the autopsy comes back and the toxicology report comes in, that's when they know.

You can tell whether or not the fentanyl that is in someone's system is the illegal type of fentanyl or the medicinal type of fentanyl. And when they realize it's the illegal type, that's when they start to look at this case as a criminal case. Cory actually not that long after this death. Right to book, the book is called, "Are you with me?" She talks about how she's self-published. This book to try to help her children make sense of the loss of their father.

It's all about dealing with grief. Which is kind of interesting because we don't know.

But police apparently at that time are taking a second look and a deeper look at her and the death of her husband.

When you look back on it, in the fact that she would go out and present this book on television, what do you make of that?

“The only thing that can make sense to me is that she is still thinking as a mother in the sense of,”

"Okay, let's assume that she knows that she's guilty, right? Even now she's writing this book, but she's still thinking like a mother, "How do I protect my children? I might have done something horrible, but I still want to protect them from something." That's the only thing that makes sense to me because doing this as a way to try to push any suspicions off of you. Yeah.

That doesn't make any sense to me because it's also not a successful tactic. And you're standing in the line light in a way. I mean, the glare of the lights and you would think you would be retreating from the lights knowing that you did something. So at one point then in this investigation because police are still looking into this case, family members of Erics are suspicious. They don't think that he died of an overdose.

And what point do they start seeing Cory as a suspect? I think the Bay is pointing this case is when Carmen Lobber is arrested.

And that is the housekeeper of the family who ultimately does testify at Cory

that Cory was the one who approached her not once but twice to get illegal drugs.

“They investigated her and I think it was March of 2023 when she's arrested.”

And in about mid May of 2023 she's released on a GPS ankle monitor. And that's very coincidental because also in May of 2023, Cory Origins is arrested. He's so arrested. And so it's the idea of -- and the defense tried to raise this as reasonable doubt, too,

that the only reason why we're here is because you arrested the housekeeper, you forced her to flip by telling a lie. And you took that -- and I'm using air quotes, a lie to them. Proskee Cory Origins that it came from the arrest of the housekeeper. Okay, you've got us all intrigued. Don't go anywhere because there's so much more to talk about.

She's arrested. And then we're going to get to the court case. Brian is going to take us inside that court room. And we're going to talk about the explosive moments that our 2020 team caught on camera. The arguments from both the defense and the prosecution. This was a high profile case. So many talking about it.

So you don't go anywhere. You're going to want to hear this. 2020 is partnering with Vibes. Open your wireless headphones. That's Vy-B-Z. If you listen to a lot of true crime, you probably like to listen with a good pair of headphones. But it can be tricky to find a pair that provides great sound quality that's not too immersive.

you don't necessarily want noise cancellation that blocks out the sounds around you.

“That's why you want to get yourself a pair of vibes. You're perfect companion in audio.”

They're designed for maximum comfort with ultra lightweight earbuds that just sit outside the ear canal. And they offer crystal clear audio. No matter what you're listening to, whether it's your favorite song or a sound rich true crime podcast, it'll come across loud and clear and silky smooth. The battery lasts up to 10 hours per charge and they come in a range of sleek modern colours and styles.

So what are you waiting for? Order now and you'll be listening to better sound with better headphones before you know it. For a limited time, our listeners can get more than 60% off a pair of vibes wireless headphones. Just go to ABCSecretSavings.com/2020. Again, that's ABCSecretSavings.com/2020.

ABCSecretSavings.com/2020. I'm RJ Decker, the private investigator uncovering the sunshine state's darkest secrets. Tuesdays, it's the premiere ABC's hottest newcribe show. RJ freaking Decker as I live in Bri. He's a private eye.

It's not a standard murder. Some bigger. And a public mass. Try to get some back to prison today. You're going to prison one time and suddenly it's all the jokes.

RJ Decker, series premiere, Tuesdays on ABC and stream on Hulu. Hi there and welcome back to 2020 The After Show. I am sitting here with ABC News Legal Analyst Brian Buckmeyer who played a huge part in our most recent 2020 story. Helping us take a look at that high profile case that's centered on the murder of Eric Richins.

“You'll remember that he was poisoned by a lethal dose of fentanyl mixed into a cocktail.”

The story was the topic of our episode called Murder. She wrote the Cory Richins trial. And last week a Utah jury found her guilty on all five counts related to the poisoning. Death of her husband Eric and our team was right there inside the courtroom during this trial. And Brian, let's start off with the defenses argument.

The defense was obviously trying to cast a lot of doubt on whether she could potentially dumb this. What were they hanging there had on? Yeah, so the defense here, there are two defense attorneys actually. First she had it private counsel and then she was given public defenders.

Their main thing was embedded within the idea of proof be on a reasonable doubt, right? And that there was reasonable doubt asked you how the fentanyl won got into Cory Richins' hands and then two got into Eric Richins' system. And there was no direct evidence that could show that either she was given those drugs by one of the drug dealers or one of the people who testified against her

or two that Eric Richins consumed that drug because of her.

And so they said, because you're missing that very crucial link.

Everything else is circumstantial.

“Everything else has some sort of level of reasonable doubt and you have to equate her.”

And that's all a defense has to do is just like create some reasonable doubt. There was something in the trial that was kind of interesting a bombshell. The walk the dog letter. And it was found in a book that Cory had in her jail cell. Tell us a little bit about that one.

Yes, so this is a multi-document kind of writing. If you were going to ask it offends, they'd said, well, she's a writer, right? She's an author. She's writing a manuscript, but the prosecution was able to make the argument that at least six of those pages of that entire manuscript could come in. And the reason why I call it the walk the dog,

script is because at the very top it says like walk the dog, be inconspicuous. And the prosecution uses what's called consciousness of guilt. An action that a person would do only if they are guilty and nothing else. And in that document, she is writing to her mother to explain to her brother how to testify specifically about her husband,

about where the fentanyl might have come, about his trips to Mexico, about some of their interactions and text messages and kind of walking them through that. Even to say, if my memory serves me right or like kind of throwing in legal jargon as to how he should respond in a certain way. And the prosecution says, only guilty people do this. And that was able to be presented in front of the jury.

Let me just explain to me that it was some fairy tale. That was loosely based on what's going on, but there's a whole bunch of stuff. And there that makes it very obvious that it's not true.

Corey is always maintained that the walk the dog letter was part of a greater manuscript.

The prosecution also talked about her being not only a woman from humble beginnings, but one who would stop at nothing to get what she wants. So they portrayed her as a completely different person than people sort of thought she was. Absolutely. And you'll hear this cliche over and over again as a prosecutor. They don't have to prove motive, but they like to do so because it's I think it's easier for people to understand.

I mean, you're a storyteller, right? If you can't explain the why I said why something is happening or why a person is doing something, often times a person might try to figure out, maybe they did, maybe they didn't do it.

It's usually love money or revenge.

And here you had two of the three, where they are able to explore. They had the love when it came to the paramour, Josh Grossman, and they had the money when it came to the insurance fraud. And so they used those as motivations and then say, well, this is why she really needed it because she didn't come from money.

She was from a cattle ranch family. Money was a very important thing to her and she was looking to get that by any means necessary. One of those means murder. Corey didn't testify and she didn't have to testify. We know that you've taught us that as an attorney.

And that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on what she's guilty or not. The jury has to be told that all of this evidence is coming out that she had plotted this, that she wanted a new life. She wanted out of this relationship with her husband.

“Would it have benefited her in your view to testify?”

I don't think so. And I'll say this, right? You are correct, right? And when I tell people who's jurors cannot hold it against a person for not testifying, I'm not a juror, so I'm going to do it, right?

But I also understand the mechanics of why a person does or doesn't testify as well. In the case like this, I don't think it made sense for her to testify for two reasons. One, the type of defense this is. This is not a defense where she would know what happened and then can give that information to the jury. Her whole defense is, I don't know how he got poisoned.

She can only testify as to how he became poisoned, how that got into a system. And if she knew the answer and it was someone else, law enforcement would have investigated that and she wouldn't be the defendant. And at least the jury is going to perceive that, right? So if she comes up with a great reason now, the question to be like, why are you the defendant?

Right? The other reason is the what abouts. The cross examination would have been horrible. Because then they would have then said, well, what about when you said this and what about when you said that and what about this? Yes, and she would get crucified.

A lot of people think that being cross examined by a person who is trained to do it is a comfortable thing.

“You can do it, but when it's your life on the line and you're being cross examined and you have to make sure that everything is perfect.”

Yeah, no. Not is not going to serve you. It's not going to. Any any any justice really to do that. Well, a jury clearly believe the prosecution's case.

She was convicted, Corey was convicted. So many of us saw clips of her in court when they read that verdict. You know, she drops her head down. What did you make of her reaction after that? Do you think this is somebody who just could not believe that she would ever be convicted?

I don't think she couldn't believe it. Because I think anyone who's gone to that point, there's a piece of them that knows this could be it. I've done maybe about, I think shy of a dozen. So like 10 or 11 trials. And each one of them, you find yourself holding the hand of your client arm around the shoulder or something.

Right? There are inches away from you. And you've spent this time with them fighting for them, believing them, thinking that you can win this. I don't know what the percentage is what's for her. Sure she believed to some degree.

She might beat the top charges. She's maybe thinking, well, maybe if they just get me for the insurance fraud, that's not that bad. If they get me for everything, I'm missing everything.

“And I think that head down, especially some other, I think that's her realizing.”

I'm missing my entire children's lives. Yeah, the sentencing will come later, but clearly she's going to be possibly gone for life in this case. 2020 had a chance to speak with Ali Staking, who was Corey's best friend for a long time, who was in a corner. And just couldn't believe what she heard in court. And certainly this verdict.

I mean, she was devastated. Let's take a look. I had explain that to kids. Who's, I mean, you saw them as family. I told my kids that they were family.

I don't know how Corey's kids are doing. I think if I could say anything narrowing's family, it would be that I'm so sorry for their loss. I loved Eric.

And I would have never wished that for them or for him.

And I loved his kids. I have no idea what I'd say to Corey. I don't know. I'm going to need more time on to think on that one. You know, you can't forget that those in the circle of these people are really affected by these types of cases, Brian.

Absolutely. It's not just the effect, but when the effects settles in because you have a former friend who was a friend. It seems all the way through this trial. And then upon seeing the evidence seeing the verdict. She is now left in a place where she's thinking, I'm just sorry for all those involved and thinking about the children.

Eric Richins and his family. It's painful. It is painful to watch her endure this. And I can only imagine what others are feeling too. You think that a verdict would be like, oh, all right.

Everything's right now. This is better. No, but the wound is still there. The pain is still there. Especially when this may betray all.

The betrayal part of it is big. Especially when you are alongside with the defense. And you, I think, not just the verdict. But you also agree with the verdict to some degree. If not completely, you say, wow, I was wrong.

Wow, I thought, well, my friend could never do this.

And not think about the children do all this.

And then you have the trial. And you're like, oh, wow, I was wrong. And you confronted by the truth. Yeah. Well, as we talked about earlier in autopsy,

toxicology report did reveal that Eric died from fentanyl poisoning. And it's sort of interesting to think about. Because I don't really know that much about fentanyl. We've all heard about it in the overdoses and so forth. But I've got a pencil here.

And if you take a look at this pencil and you think about just the tip of this pencil. The size here is considered a lethal amount. And he was given five times that amount. Five times. So we want to learn a little bit more about that.

What it means to the system and how it affects you. So when we come back, we're going to talk to a toxicologist to explain what this all means. So don't go anywhere. It's your garden start club for the cooling.

By action in quality and the kleinste price hand in hand. To buy a green boots, Dünger Granulat, but one, two and 20.

“Or the Blumentop of the Secret to the Kunststoff.”

But seven and 70 cents. And Deckel yet, all the garden products in our field. And in the action app. Action, a little price. Welcome back, everybody.

To 2020, the after show. I'm sitting here with Brian Buckmeyer, our ABC News legal analyst. He was a part of our most recent 2020 episode murder. She wrote centers around the shocking story of Cory Richen,

who was found guilty of killing her husband by mixing a fatal amount of fentanyl in his drink. Just hours before he went to sleep.

And of course, he never woke up.

Well, many of us have heard this drug fentanyl mention so much over the years. But I, for one, don't even really know how it works. And you might not either. So joining us is now emergency room physician and toxicologist

Dr. Stephanie Whitmer. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. I talked about having this little pencil. We used this as a prop to talk about a little bit of fentanyl.

And how it can do a lot of damage. And then having so much more of this, which is what happened in this case. Educate us a little bit. We know that there's so many deaths in this country. Is the leading cause, I guess, of opioid deaths in this country.

Tell us a little bit about it. Sure. So fentanyl is a synthetic opioids. Synthetic meaning it is manmade. It's synthesized in a lab.

And it is incredibly potent. So to put it into context, when you compare to other drugs in its class, other opioids, it is 50 times stronger than heroin. And 50 to 100 times stronger than morphine. So very, very potent.

The difference between, you know, sedating someone and taking away the respiratory drive is very, very small. We do use fentanyl in the medical setting.

“Well, that's what I wanted to know because Brian talked about.”

Legal doses of it and lethal and illegal doses. Yeah. So tell us how it goes. So we use it in the medical setting for pain and sedation, but we use it in very small controlled doses.

And like I just said, the difference between providing that sedation and death can be very, very tiny. A lot of the drugs that we use in the hospital or in the medical field are dosed on the order of milligrams. And sometimes grams and just to put in perspective,

Sentinel is dosed on the order of micrograms. So one milligrams, a thousand micrograms. So really small numbers here. And you picked up the pencil before. That is, that's really a great visual,

but just to put some numbers behind it. Yeah. We're really dealing with very small doses here. And, you know, it's very well regulated in the hospital setting, but when you're out on the street, there's essentially zero

regulation, zero quality control. When you say it's used in that setting and in the hospital setting,

and people get hooked on it ultimately is obviously a pain medication.

So there, there's certainly a high that comes with it,

“and it's so, so potent that that's why it's so desirable to many people.”

But again, the difference between getting high and death is, it's, it's razor thin. So really the margin for error is incredibly tiny here. What would've happened to Eric when he got that much fentanyl in a drink? And she says she came out of, he was passed out and he was, he was gone.

What would've happened to his body with that amount of fentanyl in the system? So when we talk about potency, the fentanyl binds to opioid receptors in the brainstem and fentanyl binds, it very strong, very tightly and very quickly to these opioid receptors in the brainstem. And when enough of those receptors are occupied,

that's when breathing and respiratory drive starts to shut down. So people don't die from, you know, being too high or being too sleepy, fentanyl quite literally slows a person's breathing until it stops completely. So that's how you know somebody has possibly overdosed when they are not breathing and they've suddenly just succumbed to it.

We've heard about Narcan over the years.

Tell us a little bit about it.

“I think you have something here we can take a look at.”

Yes, we have some Narcan here. So if you're concerned that someone has overdosed, you want to check to make sure whether or not they're responsive. And there are certain things to look for with a fentanyl overdose or any opioid for that matter.

We call it an opioid toxidrome, an opioid toxic syndrome. So people will come in, they can look very sleepy, they can have slurred speech. Very often you'll hear the term pinpoint pupils. People's pupils become very constricted small to the size of like a pin. And as opioid toxicity progresses,

their breathing can become very slow and shallow. You can hear choking noises, gurgling sounds. And when the breathing comes very close to a stop, you can see their skin turn kind of gray and their fingers turn blue because of a lack of oxygen.

So if you are ever concerned that somebody has potentially overdosed on opioids, you check to see if they're responding. If they're not responding, call for help, call 911. Call have cell phones, put the phone on speaker, 911. Lay the person on their back.

And if you have access to Narcan or Meloxone, Narcan is the brand name. If you have access to Narcan, this is what it looks like. But you're going to essentially spray it in their nostril. It comes in a four milligram dose and there's one dose here. So don't kind of push on the plunger until you're ready to use it

because it's one and done unless you have more, of course. Next one is the reversal agent for opioid toxicity. It reverses an opioid overdose.

It basically knocks fentanyl off of those opioid receptors

and restores the drive to breathe again. Wow, so this has saved a lot of lives over the years when we've heard about people who have overdosed. One of the things that came out in trial was that the 911 operator suggested that she tried chest compressions and so forth.

And later they felt that that had not been applied. It had not happened. Does that make any difference if somebody is trying chest compressions? That's a really great point.

So Naloxone, just like you said, is amazing. It saves lives but if someone does not have a pulse, that's where CPR comes first. You want CPR, you're quite literally pumping the person's heart inside of their body.

So if somebody does not have a pulse, if their heart is not pumping,

“it's essential before you even reach for the Naloxone”

to start to start CPR. But that's almost like a spray, as you said, a nostril spray. That's interesting.

I've never had an opportunity to see that before.

So this Naloxone is it's sold over the counter. So it's very easily accessible nowadays. But it is. It comes in a nasal spray. There's the nozzle here and you have the plunger.

And it's just, it's almost kind of inherent. You hold it like this and you push it and delivers the full four million grams spray. And it could have possibly saved the life of of Eric. Yes.

Yes. In this case, if had anybody had an opportunity to do it. Brian, before we go, sentencing in this case for Cory will happen a little bit later in May, we're told, what, what can we expect?

So what you'd expect is a victim impact statements. And one of the reasons why the sentencing is so late. Usually it's within 45 days in Utah. And so they can get all the victims to be able to organize himself and come forward to give those victim impact statements.

Victim impact statements operate for two reasons. One is cathartic. For the victims here with the express how they felt that this defendant now convicted felon has affected their lives. But also to inform the judge as to where the sentencing should fall.

With the case like this with aggravated murder more likely than not,

“where she's looking at 25 to life, the judge I think would give something”

very close to the top end regardless of what anyone said. And then for the first time because Cory Richens has did not testify trial. She would have the opportunity to speak in court. And she could speak, not speak, speak to the court, speak to the victims. Whatever it is, the defense would also have the opportunity to give any kind

of mitigation to request a lower sentence. The judge would take all information and then render a sentence. It'll be interesting to hear if she does and if there's remorse there, because we all listen for those kinds of things in these cases. Brian Buckmeyer, so great to have you here.

Dr. Whitmer, wow, you educated us tremendously.

I had never had an opportunity to see this.

So thank you for spending some time with us. And thank you for being with us too. As always, thank you for joining this podcast episode and for joining us on 2020. And you know all of our episodes are on Friday nights on ABC. And you can stream episodes like this one any time on Disney plus and

Hullo. Have a good day everybody. Sting. Krass? I don't know how to play. Stoy on LED?

Save? With Viso Stoyer. Welcome back, Grace. You and your sister are here for a very exciting reason.

Hunters, you haven't told Tom to kill them both.

Experience the most unhaired. I'm not playing! Bloody. Boo! Diabolically twisted.

Movie of the Year.

“Some moral weaving, Catherine Newton, Elijah Ward, and Sarah Michelle Yeller.”

Back for round two. Yeah.