Travis Kalanick & Michael Dell Live from Austin, Texas

On the count of three, what's my favorite angel investment of all time, one, two, three?

Oh, yeah! Thank you. Give it up, Travis Kalenick. [applause] Appreciate you.

All right. Wow. On a big news day, Travis is here on a very big news day. Just spent, wow, I guess, like seven years, just in the lab building. Last year, every year I ask you, hey, you want to come to them, and some of it, you

want to say, no, it's like, I'm going to just chill. I'm building. Next year, hey, you know, it's just a nice moment when you understand I'm stealthy. I stealth. I'm stealth.

Nobody knows where I am. Nobody knows what I'm doing. The employees are not allowed to put the name of the company on their LinkedIn. Thousands of employees that weren't allowed to put the company name on LinkedIn.

I mean, incredible, and I'm like, OK, and their parents thought they worked for the CIA.

Yeah. And then he's like, and by the way, Jack, you can invest. You can't announce it. And you have to spend it. And you can't mention you're in an investor.

It's like, OK, no problem. I'm just happy to be able to capital.

“Is he like, kind of like secret saying what he wasn't supposed to say?”

Yeah, right. Oh, you saw it all before that. You came out of stealth, well, you've talked a little bit. You came to all ensemble. Is that fair?

You say you're coming out of stealth today? Is that right? Well, look, let's just start with what that meant for our employees. Because again, imagine if you're at a multi-thousand-person company and every single employee has stealth on their LinkedIn, including salespeople, OK, including recruiters, like it was,

they were, they were live in life on a hard mode. It's got a fun too, right? I mean, yeah, it was like, got a cool, what is this, why are there, why is this massive density of stealth, start up people in Los Angeles? What is happening over there?

Yeah. Also technically, the name of the company in different countries was very generic names of companies.

“I mean, everything was designed to be stealth, right?”

So we operate in 30 countries in the US, the Kitchens product is known as Cloud Kitchens. In Korea, it's kitchen valley, in the Middle East, it's Nama in Latin America, parts of Latin America. It's consenous to quilt us, I mean, you get the idea. You can't ever remember all the names of all the co-workers to think about it.

I think about it. Yeah. But it's a foreign China. Yeah. It's like all over the place.

Yeah. But things have gone really well, and you've been a little inquisitive. You're telling us about the branding today that you're announcing, and then maybe some of the acquisitions and evolution of the company, you're not just renting kitchen space. Those who, I mean, know how I thought about things in the Uber day, a lot of this stuff's

not surprising. I would often talk about digitizing the physical world.

“I think I even did it in all of some it.”

The quick version of this, I'll try to do it quickly, but it's like, we know the bits world, the computer world, the one that Michael Dall essentially invented for us. CPU storage network, these are three core computing resources when you go to computer science

class your first day, three core computer resources.

CPU manipulates a bit, storage stores the bits, network moves bits from point A to point B. But if you're digitizing the physical world, you're treating atoms like bits. You're building an atoms-based computer, and I'll explain what I mean to say. I know there's a little out there.

CPU manipulates bits what manipulates atoms, manufacturing, storage stores bits, what stores atoms, real estate, network moves bits from point A to point B, what moves atoms, that's transportation, or logistics. So you have these three core computing resources in an atoms-based computer. The name of my company was very obtuse and purposely designed to be as boring as hell

was called city storage systems. So that's digitized real estate in an atoms-based computer, our first computer being a food computer. What does that mean? Manufacturing real estate and logistics for food.

And so you start to get there, and the idea, the mission was infrastructure for better food, the idea was can you get a meal that's prepared and delivered to you? So efficient that it starts to approach the cost of going to grocery store. If you can do that, you do to the kitchen, what Uber did to the car. But in the Uber day, the roads were there.

The cars are unused.

In this world, you can't do this on a restaurant.

Restaurant doesn't have, when I left Uber, 13% of all since the San Francisco miles were Uber miles. You can't get, and that was 10 or nine years ago, you can't get there on food, on restaurants. They have like 20% capacity, Uber eats in Door-Philet, but the infrastructure to do high capacity, high scale sort of industrial production is just not there.

And the logistics is just not there, it just doesn't work.

“That's why on e-commerce, you go through Amazon, big ass warehouses with awesome logistics.”

You've got to do the same thing when food went food goes to e-commerce. That was a lot. Okay, so bottom line is, it's awesome. We do this food computation stuff. We're doing more computers now.

And so the name of the company is called Adams. And let's say the mission is a physical automation to transform industries and move the world. And so we have our food computer talked about, then we do, we're doing mining. Mining as in mining data mining, we're talking about Adams guys. Yeah.

So of course you do some mining data mining too, but the point is is physical mining. So automation of mines. And the mission there is more productive mines to power earth's industries. Right? That's industrial Adams vibe to it.

And then on the transport side, it's a wheelbase for robots, because if you're doing specialized

“robots, not humanoids, specialized robots, you need to be able to move and act in the physical”

world. But the minute you're moving, you got to have a wheelbase, so it's just part of the equation. And a lot of people go look at Tesla's great, look at, look at waymo, awesome, they're cruising around Austin, of course. But there's so many things that move, it's not just a right-sharing thing.

And so obviously including mining equipment that's doing it's thanks. So you guys, that's the general sort of idea, and we acquired a company on the mining stuff, a company called Pronto, or it's about to close. It's where we're inches from clothing, is the way to put it. What were they doing?

What was their business? Pronto. Automating mining equipment. Were they based? They're based in San Francisco.

So you and I were starting to talk about this backstage, but there's some folks I talked to in the mining industry who mentioned, you know, like the the biggest you with mining, number one is just surveying, like finding the locations, right? Is there an advantage to be created there? Because I know there's a couple startups that are trying to be really smart about selecting

locations to get the targets out of the ground. And then the other one is like, well, can you go deep? Because pretty much anywhere on Earth, you can get whatever you want, if you're willing to go deep enough, but the cost is, is distance squared, right?

So the energy cost is like, how deep are you going to the second power?

So it becomes, you know, geometrically more expensive to go deeper, but the deeper you go, you're, the more you're able to kind of not worry about getting the right location. So does automation unlock that capacity? I know what it definitely does. I mean, yeah, I mean, it also, it's like, man, just boring company has some good stuff

going. Like, I hope we were like, we're doing the mining thing, like, and boring goes makes, you know, some good tunnels for cars to do the thing, but they're like, there's some kind of boring mechanism, automated tunneling to do some of this. But to be honest, there's, you know, they had this, this thing is like, rare earths, I

don't know why they put plural, rare earths isn't it, rare earths, I don't know. But the, but, right, rare, rare earths, yeah, but it's not rare. It's not uncommon. It's not rare.

“It's, what you have to do, the land is aggressive.”

And what's rare is the, is where, where are the places they'll let you do it, that you can also sort of get people to. When you automate, you can go to a lot of places.

Well, first, is all the mines that exist are way more productive.

And the second is you can then sort of justify going to places. You wouldn't have been able to go before because you don't have as much of a labor footprint or a safety issue or a whole bunch of other things that then. So it's become hospitable if it's regulated, if it's like, I don't want to live there. It's the end of the earth.

Yeah. And send robots and have people monitoring them remotely. Yeah. And this is like a future that feels like a little bit like science fiction. Look, we're here in Osse.

You got to do this shout out to Tesla and all the things. Because I like to sort of break down the physical AI stack includes not just like, oh, yeah,

And I've got to physically, I models.

“And I've got to, all the things you sort of think of, what about land development?”

That should be in that stack. What about chemistry? That needs to be in the stack. Manufacturing needs to be a stack. When you look at the stack, you're like, damn, Tesla's got this.

They are the Google of this era, which is what I mean by that is in the 2000s.

If you were doing a startup in the 2000s, the first question you would get is, why isn't Google

going to kill you? Or why isn't Google, we're just going to do it. Right, Google. There's going to be no that you killed you. And before that microsoft.

And before that is microsoft. The late 90s. Uber had a time, 2010. Yeah. What if Uber puts that in the end?

Come on. It's like dude, this is Uber. Yeah.

“But, you know, I think in the physical AI space, that's sort of a Tesla thing.”

But there's so many things to do, you've got to shoot your shot, can I do some stuff? And rumors that, hey, you might not be done with self driving, something that you were very early on.

How do you think about what you're seeing in the playing field of self driving, because

my Lord, you know, way most making great progress, Tesla's making great, like pick a winner between Tesla, Waymo, Uber or like, where might even be Uber or Uber or Uber, it seems to be building a network of, yeah, I mean, like number of pick a winner, the number that's so funny. That's crazy now, right?

Yeah, look, I think there's more noise, if there's more bark than there is bite right now. Look, I think Waymo obviously, the head, the existence proof is there. Their issue is manufacturing and scale and urgency and fierceness, like, yeah, come on. Let's go.

Yeah. You know, Uber had an autonomy project back in the day to, and they have a different strategy these days. I haven't been there for a while. But the point is, is that you, so you got Waymo, then you've got Tesla, fundamentals, science,

hard mode, times 100, and the question is, do they get there in what time scale? If they, like, honestly, everybody's like, could happen tomorrow, could happen in five years.

“And I think that, it's like, when does the chat GPT moment happen for vision?”

It's basically the thing, let's call it vision without other sensors.

So super inspiring, but like, what's the timeline on it? Yeah. Those are the pace, this is basically the, and then there's a lot of other little guys that don't really have the stuff I believe yet. There's nobody standing out just yet of the others.

Do you think we're at a point now, like, obviously, now that you're getting into more of these kind of autonomous systems that move around, like, do we have these vision language action models tuned and ready for prime time? There's, there's been a conversation like, who's going to have the Android, the operating system for vision language action where I can use my voice, tell it to do something, and

it knows what I'm saying. And then it identifies the objects and does the thing in the physical world. Do those models exist today or they're still work? And is that like a Google OS or, like, where does that OS come from? Look, I think there's a, this is an area of a lot of energy, a mix of research and implementation.

I think there's a lot of hope and interesting stuff. I mean, the high level is we all remember what happened when you used chat GPT 3.5. And you're like, holy shit. Yeah. It's legit.

Whoa. And then it went to four and you're like, okay, like, some stuff just changed. The world just changed and I can sort of connect some dots and sh*t getting real. Is it about to happen? Is it about to happen for physical AI?

And that's what this is about. Yeah. And the fun part about it is machine learning, deep learning, this kind of thing for many years, decades was like, inscrutable, I don't know what the thing is thinking. It just spits out an answer.

And I know it's correct. Well now you can have a conversation with it, right? Like imagine if it's driving your car and there's different agents and ones just driving the others like, yo, look out over there. Yeah.

It's like, oh, just like how we roll, it looks like something does that. You're like, you're like, honey, that's like 200 meters away. We're going to be like, okay. Yeah. Just that I don't call each other honey, but I got you.

Yeah. Sweetie. You know. Yeah. Okay.

So anyways, that was odd. It wasn't. I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it. Yeah.

You know, I'm in it. Okay. Language is a beautiful compression mechanism that humans use a hundred watts of energy. Like, and you put that in the scheme of things of like AI training, AI energy, the power plants that are built to do the thing that isn't even at human strength yet, okay.

to drive a whamom.

“So, so language, there are still things that humans are great at and that unbeat, like”

the goat. We're still the goat at certain things. Language is this epic compression.

And we need to find ways to compress because like when you think about how how we first

started looking at the physical world is we saw everything. And you know what, guys, and this is sort of obvious. Like it doesn't matter what the cloud is doing if I'm driving. But like the car doesn't know that it's pulling in every fricking data point and processing everything.

And it's, you know, look, they've been about sort of carving out the things that don't matter and things like this, but there's ultra awesome versions of this and you can imagine how you can use language or things that look like language to communicate either among students, or sort of safety systems with a driving system to sort of get very efficient answers and to identify safety issues very efficiently.

People don't know that you've moved to Texas as of or most people don't know, but it's out there. Yeah. You moved here in December. So, now you're a resident of Austin.

Yeah, I was about. Thank you. (applause)

It's very exciting for me.

We're getting to play some backgammon, backgammon cards. It's hard. We're having a good job. So, I've had a place on Lake Austin since 2021. And I go there.

I'm an avid water skier. Like, you're impressed about what I was king. I have to say, like, so I've had a place in Austin for five years. Frick and love it. It's my weekend.

I would go 15 weekends a year. What do you think is going to happen in California? It's pretty messed up. I look. I grew up in Cali.

I grew up in Los Angeles.

My parents were born in Brad in Los Angeles, which basically makes them the founders of L.A.

But so, I have a lot of heart, like, my whole family, everything. It's pretty, it's, yeah, I don't want it. A lot of us feel that way. I don't want to get the violin out, but it just, but it's heartbreaking.

“It totally, it's just a place you grew up at your home, when you have to leave.”

But it's getting weird out there. And it feels like it's getting weirder. And at some point, that's, it's just too weird. It's too weird. Do you think everyone's going to leave?

I mean, it started with Elon, and it was like, we don't want Elon here. And then he's like, message received. It's like a tool. Right. And then it kind of worked its way down the tech industry.

And then he kind of, you know, world of people building businesses and whatnot. And now it's kind of gotten so broad in terms of the. Right. Joe Rogan, comedy, music, New Yorkers, restaurant tours. I mean, this place is, I'm not even, I'm just, I'm just, I'm, everyone, leaving LA or

sorry, leaving California is almost like working down this path of, look, my, the rest of my team's like, we're, when are we moving, you know, they're like, how are you dealing with that? So that was the question was like, got to be focused on the lake. There are literally dozens of startup CEOs of, call it successful or growing companies that

I talk to who are like, dude, I want to leave, but I got employees here. I got an office here. I got a facility here. I built stuff here. How am I going to leave?

Yeah. I totally got it. It's a real thing. So, look, I think like most things sort of when it's time, and it feels painful to do something sometimes, it's actually not as bad as you think, and you just got to make the move and

lead and do it. And so, that's kind of what, that's kind of the process, they're almost like a morning process I went through. And that's just what it is. And you're setting up a team here?

Yeah, of course. And I got that office right on the lake. Did you get that? It's the one we're going to negotiate. No, no, no, it's all good.

We're going to negotiate right now. And I'm going to jet ski to work. No, literally, it's just very flashy and driving up the thing. And I was like, wow, I wonder who owns that, he's like, I will. And I was like, did you look at his like, I look at that.

And I was like, that would be a nice one.

“But the truth is, you know, and I had a couple of people move here a couple of years”

ago, and they all had the same reaction. Oh my God, I'm living in a place that's twice as big for half as much. The people here are dope. The food is dope. Everybody here is got this sense that we're building the future.

And it's just fun and world positive. And, you know, for me, I got to live New York, LA San Francisco. I did three of the great cities in this country. This one feels the most like home to me, which is a very strange feeling to me, but it feels like everybody here wants to build the future.

stuff. I think this is the future. Yeah, here's the thing. And I still have a little nostalgia when I go to San Francisco, just having built Uber there.

And the whole thing, I still get the, you know, the butterflies, just I did, you know, but it does have something magical. You just can't take it away.

And then you look at all of these bike lanes and these bus lanes that never have a bus

or a bike in them and cost $400 million a year like one mile. It's literally, it's sort of like this subconscious desire to choke the city off. Now remember, I look at things through roads. That's how I think. So I'm just like, obviously, the city is totally busted.

Yeah. They literally took market street and they're like, what would be the optimal way

“to f*** this up and virtual signal at the same time?”

And they're like, yeah, buses. And it's like, nobody's on the bus. Nobody takes the bus. It's a beautiful small town. That street was empty.

That whole street is empty and it's hanging red. Okay, so we all bitch and complain nonstop. Okay, yeah. What are you? I'm not even like, you know, I'm number one.

I get it. But freebird, what are you leaving? Okay, well, I'm the chat you're the best. Yeah, I'm like, okay. So let me just buy the light.

There's a couple glasses of wine in public. What are you saying? Freeberg. Yeah.

“And he's like, you know, I think there's a better way to, and then there's like,”

Darth freedberg, in group chat, he's like, these people, these f*** more and he's like, they're destroying society. He is like, Darth freedberg, in group chat, and my wife, and my wife is he the most correct, especially after a couple glasses of wine. Yeah, when I started drinking, he takes off a clean picture.

She's like, fourth beverage, I'm like, yeah. Oh, it's worth staying and I'm worth a group chat. And then I'm like, I'll go and attack this congressman on Twitter, which I'm going to leave the tweet. Yeah.

It's going to delete the tweet. Yeah, I delete the tweet.

OK, so there's a group of people trying to raise $500 million to create like a tech/business

coalition to go to Sacramento, which arguably is something that everyone's left and avoided doing forever, because no one wants to spend time in freaking Sacramento fighting politicians. But it's almost like we're all falling off a cliff. It's time to do something. Do you think there's a realistic path pack?

Do you think the people can actually get their s*** together? That even if 500 million came in, there's a way to kind of turn around the state, fix them of the policies. You think it's too late. I don't think that.

But look, I would go up. Look, anybody who's doing anything to fix things, I'm like, how, yeah, let's do something. The issue is we all grew up in the tech world, which was like a libertarian place where you stay out of politics and that it was that kind of vibe. It was just everybody was like that and I want to make stuff.

Yeah, I'm not, I don't do that. And that's obviously, this is not a thing anymore, in California, I think the ballot

initiatives are very powerful and there's very clean ways to get something on the ballot.

Love that. I think that your DAs, who have decided we do not enforce crime at all anymore, that's like a sweet spot. Like I believe that I sort of have this aphorism, truth and justice are the immune system for society.

And when the immune system is suppressed, all the social ills flare up. So look for the places where truth and justice are being deteriorated, are being degraded and say, how do we get at that? Because if you get at that, everything else downstream will be better. So that's kind of how I look at things and how I also determine whether the world's getting

better or worse. I say, weird, I'm talking about truth and justice.

“That's what I mean when I say, oh, man, it's getting weird, it's getting weird, which means”

it's weird. I'm just talking about truth and justice. Well, I mean, and you look at the homeless industrial complex, you look at Chesa-Boodeen, which the all-in-odd sacks myself and the pod, like we literally led the recall of him. And then you had the same thing going on in LA, where they were just like, if somebody

gets going, yeah, cascone, I mean, we basically lost the script. So running the city for the criminals, it literally is like a Batman movie. It's like, Bane, you want to arrest the criminals. Look, I was born in the darkness, I mean, these guys are (bleep) lunatics. Yeah, look, I know police officers in Los Angeles who are no longer police officers.

And these are life-long guys who protect and serve, that's in their bloods or DNA. They want to protect people. They want the bad guys to be dealt with, and they almost have PTSD from what it is like to want to serve and see bad things happening and not being allowed to stop it.

It's crazy and it's getting weird.

“Okay, hey, I want to just go back to AI for the darkness, I don't know, I think it's good.”

I was trying to induce, I'm trying to induce dark free blood. Well, I brought him. Yeah, I mean, someone bring me a tequila, I'll get going. Yeah, let's do it. Can we get a couple of tequila?

Well, yeah, I went on this podcast yesterday and the first hour was middle of the road.

I was talking about tech and science and then politics came up, he's like, so socialism. And he said, like, you lost it and then you were like, he's like, the energy with 10x and he's like, who is this? Who is this? Yeah, so it'll come out in a couple of weeks, but I was like, it got me going.

Okay, I want to talk about physically, I want more time. Yeah. But now that you're doing this, I saw a presentation every day, someone showed like a video of a squirrel jumping from one tree to another tree and they're like a temp of a watt or something. Yeah.

Like the biology is tuned and it's so perfect in terms of its efficiency of energy utilization to do physical things and we're taking these like big things of metal and motors and like actuators and if you add up or you compound all of the inefficiencies in the system, it's like 1200 watts to get the robot to walk four foot like break apart, not just the software, but the hardware layer and where we add in evolving things like actuators and the materials

and everything else that's going to make physical AI work and scale. I look a lot with the questions you're asking are going down humanoid lane, which is like this thing and everybody talks about how do you do the hand, it's almost like terminated to type obsession

with the hand which is fair, like it's a very critical part of it.

I mean, look at the, I like to look at the Achilles, the quote unquote Achilles tendon of any of these machines and you're like, that's where the action is, this, this is a couple other places. Um, look, I'm in the non-humanoid space, I mean, but it mechanical engineers have been dealing with actuators and, you know, all the sort of electro mechanical sort of interactions

that make machines do certain things, but like, I'm in the food machine space. So I can tell you how to open a paper bag and put a, put a bowl in a paper bag without tearing the paper bag, but I am less into the, I forget the name Peria, there, there, the senses to understand awareness and touch. Um, I'm not in that game.

Um, so when you're mining, you're like, you're not like, you know, you're not spreading into it. You're not playing tennis. Um, certain things may be equivalent to tennis.

“So look, the bottom line is we're seeing, obviously, all you have to do is go online and”

look at where the humanoids are going over time and how much better they're getting. It's wild and it's happening so freaking fast, but any humanoid demo starts with dancing and martial arts. Yeah. And we're sort of down specialized robot lane, which is gainfully employed robots.

Yeah. So I know I didn't totally answer the question on the robot technology piece. But I just like, do you agree that there's probably like a big opportunity for venture money and the research to go in a real science. Yeah, for sure, because if the physical AI stack, manipulation and all of the related

things around it is massive. And so if you get the software working, it's almost like the hardware has to catch up. Yeah. We got a lot of, there's a lot of ideas. Well, actually, it's good that you bring this up.

You know, one of the things you pioneered at Uber was capitalized weapon and you were very thoughtful about, hey, if we can take this capital off the table, then that's going to let's call it what it is. It's going to be advantage versus the competitors and these other competitors couldn't get that capital.

That's now, I think people have seen that playbook and they're like, hmm, someone's like, that was smart. Let me try. And it's at a different scale. Now that you've come out of stealth, now that you've got, and people are starting to

understand just starting today, how big your vision is, capitalized a weapon. But this is, I guess, in your plan, yeah.

Well, I mean, here's the thing, right?

So capital as a strategic weapon for its own sake is not a thing. But when it is actually a strategic weapon, then it is a thing. What I mean by that is like in the Uber world early days, if you didn't have capital, didn't matter how good your app was, because Moss is going to put a billion dollars in your competitor and you're going to lose 20% market share tomorrow.

So a critical competency, in fact, to your world class competencies, one of them has to be

“raising capital and you need to do it better than everybody else.”

And if you don't, you are going to lose. Let me ask one follow up to that, but the Middle East, I've heard theories the last

going on in the Middle East with the Iran War, Dubai, Qatar, Saudis are kind of going to

“close up the capital flowing to the US right now.”

And is that real? I mean, you think that's a real threat? So look, our Middle East business was supposed to go public in January, and the Saudi market went down 20% over like a two-month period, and that was like a massive damper on the situation.

Now part of that was because the oil prices had gone down so dramatically. And if you went into KSA, you went to the kingdom, everybody's like we need oil prices to go up.

You know, that's the other side of the equation.

So I don't know what, look, I'm not in the market raising money right at this moment, and this is a two-week-old thing that I, you know, look, I see the news, just like everybody else, and I'm not out there calling, while it war is going on and saying, "Hey, guys, you got some money." So I don't know exactly what's going to happen, but if you are an optimist and you're

like, "Okay, this isn't, this is not going on forever." Just like the tariffs, it was the end of the world, and then it wasn't very quickly. If you're an optimist about this situation, and it won't be the end of the world, maybe even a better world, then we get to a better place, and I think progress, abundance, the golden age happens. And a lot of it is about all the things that are happening in

AI, in physical AI, and just the productivity gains that are coming in very massive ways. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was shock, shock, and awe, and then, hey, now we've got a steady state,

“and let's hope that's what happens in Iran, is that we can depose this evil dictatorship.”

Well, sorry, replace it with something a little more stable. And related to this before we wrap, they're going to China, they're big trade deal, helping negotiate it. What do you hope comes out of this Chinese thing? And what did you learn in China? What would you learn? And what do you think would be great for America?

Like, what would you like to see and be like, "Man, that's going to set us all up." No more.

Well, here's the thing, if you go to China right now, and you go, and just take a tour of the

manufacturing that's going on there, just the manufacturing base, the cities, especially if you've gone to China for a couple decades in a row, you're like, "Damn, yeah." So, let's just do two things. You go to Shenzhen, which before felt like Kansas City, but 50 years ago, and really humid, which I guess is Kansas City sometimes. But you go there now, and it's like one up in Singapore, right?

Or, so that's the city view, you're just experiencing a very awesome, you're like, "This is advanced." And you just get the vibe, and it's everywhere. And then you go, and you start seeing the manufacturing base, and you see what like Xiaomi is doing, or any of the other, there's so many scrappy guys, bad ask guys, everywhere in your, like, they're hungry.

So, does anybody remember the 2008 Olympics in Beijing? Does anybody, does anybody, this

“is a little bit, you're a down rabbit hole? Does anybody remember the opening ceremony?”

And you're like, "These Mofos are taken over." At least that's what they want to do. That's sh*t happening. So, I don't have any issuers, this is not negativity for me. I'm like, "These guys are killing it. The best idea is winning. They're fiercely, they're fiercely going after truth and progress, and they're making sh*t happen. Let's step up our game." Okay? But we can also have a friendly game. We don't have to be like the Detroit

Pistons in the 90s. We can, there's a way into the stands. Yeah. Yeah, you know, there's a way to do this right, and there's a way to do it like adults. I hope that's where we would end up. I have a employee, because we, for a long time, where the largest kitchen builders in China have an employee in China has an American wife. Okay? They both live in China. They're both from China originally, okay? But it would be great for him to work here on

some things I'm doing. It's very hard to make that happen right now. Now, that's selfish like I, like maybe selfish, like I'm like, there's a person I've been working with for over a decade. I'd love to continue here. Maybe there's other bigger picture items that I'm not dealing with. I'm not the geopolitical guy, but I'd love for that to be sort of good relations and good, like, like, if you have a significant other, who is an American

citizen, like, do we have to make that hard? Is an example? Some normal, see, would

properly. Like, we ended up super bad. Don't even get me started. But there's also there's

“good migration to, like, a lot of great innovators all over the place came from other places”

for their own version of the American dream. God bless, and we don't have to, that doesn't have to be a negative thing. And so I'd like to see more of that. And, yeah, China's China's wild. So let's, let's keep on the ball and let's, let's give him run for their money, too. Okay. I love that. Wow. Michael, down. My Lord, Texas, natives. Yes, born and used it. Well,

I missed the opening. We jumped to the music, but you started Dell computer here in Austin with a thousand bucks. 42 years ago, in my dorm room at Dolby at UT, about 10 days before I finished my freshman semester and it's been working out pretty good. Yes, it's been some bumps in the road, but generally generally worked out. Okay. Yeah, we'll have about 140 million in revenue this year. So, yeah, it compounds over time. Yeah. Yeah. You know,

“you start small and just keep adding and there you go. That's how it goes. Yeah, it's just”

that easy. But why Texas, like, I think this is an important thing. We're in Austin. Jason lives here. David Sachs lives here now. More people are moving from California to Austin,

why Austin, why Texas, why is it work here? And it's getting better. It just always worked.

You know, I think Texas has had a, you know, low tax, pro-growth environment for a long time and pro, you know, sort of progressive business climate. And, you know, if you sort of look at the growth of the Texas economy relative to the rest of the United States without Texas, you know, Texas just kind of looks like a better version of the U.S. economy. And, you know, now you've got Austin is sort of just about in the top 10 cities in the

United States. So, you've got when that happens, you'll have four of the 10 largest cities in America in Texas, one out of 10 children born in the United States, born in Texas, more New York soccer-stange companies in Texas than in New York or anywhere else. And, you

know, you've got the University of Texas here in Austin, which I always think of as kind

of the well-spring for a lot of the companies that are here, certainly ours. And, you know, long history of innovative pioneering spirit and entrepreneurship. And, it's been a fantastic

“place for us. And, part of this, I think, freeberg and Michael, is what's happened in the”

other great cities or what were one-stgrade cities, my hometown New York, got to spend 10 years in LA in the last 12 in the Bay Area. And, what's happening there is incredibly un-American. And, they're decelerating when compared, and I think maybe the gap maybe in the disparity from these two locations has gotten greater, yeah. And, you're seeing a lot more people say, "Life there, here in Austin, seems a lot better than the life

I'm living in New York, LA, or in the Bay Area." Yeah, well, I've got a lot of new friends and neighbors, you know, that have come in, certainly. I mean, if you look at the migration statistics, Texas has attracted an enormous number of people. And, and look, I mean, when you, when you look at the environment here and compare it to the other kind of situations that are going on, it's very attractive. But, you know, it's kind of been great for a long

time, so it's not really news to us that have been here a while. Yeah, Elon had a great experience when he was building the giga factory over here. They let you do stuff here.

Yeah, basically, you know. They let him build it, which he said it was like an incredible

experience for him because in California, they didn't let him build, you know, these factories. And, in fact, that Tesla factories that didn't free month was just an old ancient factory that he was able to retrofit. So, there's something going on here as well with the data centers.

could talk a little bit about the data center boom that's going on in Texas. That maybe

“people aren't paying attention to. Sure, well, there's, you know, obviously been an”

enormous build out of AI infrastructure and that requires, you know, lots of new data centers, lots of power, Texas, you know, has an enormous advantage there relative to other states, a lot of power, a lot of land. And you can build stuff, right? So, there's been a massive build out, particularly in some of the cities and towns and west Texas where there's not a lot of population. And so, they're not really too opposed to having data centers out in the

middle of nowhere where there's land and power. And so, yeah, I mean, the demand for tokens is enormous, you know, we've been building these AI data centers, not just to your Texas, but around the world. And, you know, the growth in that has been tremendous. You know, we, we introduced

“the first 800 server, it was literally a couple of weeks before chat, GPT was announced. And, you know,”

the progression of our business in that area has sort of gone from like 2 billion to 10 billion to

25 billion to this year, it'll be like 50 billion. So, tremendous growth. And when, when you think about what these models are creating, you know, there's this phase change that's happened in computing, right? We, we had 60 years of calculating computing. Now, we have machines that are thinking and helping us think. And so, the demand for that kind of intelligence and, you know, the models are amazing, but they're also the worst delivery and they're continuing to improve. And so,

we just see a lot more demand than supply. And it's happening not just in the hyperscalers and the cloud service providers, it's happening in 4,000 enterprises where we've building these these Del AI factories, it's happening in sovereign AI, you know, like the Palantir and, you know, people want to protect their data, but also use AI on it. They want to bring the AI to where their data is. And, you know, when this kind of started a few years ago, we had some

really sophisticated large companies and think of like Fortune 100. And they started, you know, buying these AI servers from us and, and they kind of knew what they were doing, right? You know, and we said, well, what are you doing? And they, they were, they were kind of taking, building their own models. They were taking open source models. They were running them. Some of them were, where algorithmic traders, or, you know, derivatives of machine learning. And, of course,

they needed a lot of help in doing that because it was sort of a complicated thing. So, about two years ago, we put together this product that we, we called the Del AI factory. And now, we've got 4,000 plus of these, and it's kind of running rampant across enterprises. How do you think about the payback time on the investment that's being made? The administration put in place this accelerated depreciation rule by the context. Yeah, that's very helpful, actually.

Yeah. So, just for folks to understand that a little bit, like, if you spend a hundred

billion dollars this year building and data centers and buying infrastructure for those data centers,

you get to write off a hundred percent of that this year. Correct. To deduct it. So, you don't

“pay taxes. You pay way much fewer tax. And that's in place for 10 years. I think.”

That's in 10 years, right, right, accelerating the investment. How much is that helping? Versus, how are you seeing folks rationalize the investment relative to the return they're going to make an over what time scale? This is still the big question. Is the money really, they're the hyper scaleers. Maybe they're starting to come up, but end usage and states are we kind of, hey, wait and see, we don't know yet, or folks are getting 20 percent ROIC

starting in year one after they've made the investment. You know, I can tell you, in our business, in our company, we definitely see plenty of use cases where the ROI or the improvement in

productivity efficiency is 20 percent or greater. Right away, it gets there. I mean,

it's not like you just hit a button and you get 20 percent, right? There's work required in thinking through the processes and it's worth a little bit describing that. So, you know, when you have a any company, it's processes and tools and technology are a function of what was

say, all right, what's the trajectory of the improvement of the tools? What outcome are we trying to

create? And now let's simplify and standardize the processes, get all the tools together, get all the data together and then apply the technology. And this really has to be done in kind of a top-down way. You can't sort of do it spontaneously. You know, in silos are not going to spontaneously improve themselves. And often that means that you're completely changing the way the organization works. It's like a wholesale re-architecture. It's a re-imagining of the way a company works. And you know,

I mean, the way I described this to our team about three years ago is, you know, we were going to have a new competitor five years from now. That would be two years from now. You know, that was in every business that we're in, except there were going to be faster and more innovative and more

“successful and lower cost and they were going to put us out of business. And the only way we”

we're going to prevent that is we're going to become that company. And here's how we're going to do it. And, you know, excited, some people, it's carrots and people, but I actually believe that that's what's going to happen. And so we've been dramatically changing our business. I would say the biggest benefit by far is speed. We're much faster at being able to apply innovations. And so,

you know, you look at our infrastructure business last quarter group 73 percent. Well, that's kind of

unusual for a business of this size. And, you know, this quarter we guided that it would grow even faster, like 100 percent. So you've lived through a couple of paradigm shifts here. The PC Revolution, obviously you led that. And then you, of course, had a, you know, client server, been network revolution online, internet, cloud, mobile. Yeah. So each one of those, we saw massive disruption. We're talking in the green room about it. We used to have a typing pool. There was a

mail room. All of these things got abstracted away by the PC and networked PC Revolution.

“But it took a decade or two. And this one's happening a lot faster. Yeah. Yeah, this one I think”

it's like, you know, a quarter is like a year. Maybe it's five times faster or something like that.

But, but back to your question, I, I would say maybe 10 or 15 percent of large companies have really

figured this out. And the rest of them are kind of fumbling around. And, you know, there's a tendency when you hear about a new technology to like, oh, let's just, let's just go do it, you know, show the boss. Hey, we did AI, you know, the board said we got to do AI. We got to do AI. Are you proud of your boss? Yeah. And look at what I made. Exactly. And I also think, you know, it's an important point about about this, which is, you know, the barrier to technology adoption

is not technology. It's culture and leadership and courage. Right. And so willingness to change into something. Yeah. And, you know, if you, if you're in a business that you don't think is changing

“very much or, you know, hard, changes really hard. Right. You have to be very uncomfortable. You're like,”

well, we're going to stop doing that. Well, we don't need this anymore. Particularly if your bonus is dependent on not messing things up. But let's go, let's use the internet as an analogy, which you saw up close. There were businesses that were internet transition successful. They made the transition maybe macy's dot com versus sears robot, right? Right. Right. Maybe macy's did a better job of taking advantage of the internet then sears. But then there was internet native businesses

that seemed to blow them all out. And maybe Amazon's a good example or CSN stores, whatever they make way fair, et cetera. What's the right way to think about this evolution in the industries generally? Are we going to have businesses that are going to transition successfully in those that aren't and they're going to die? And this is really going to, are we going to see AI native businesses in every industry come in and just disrupt everything? I believe we will. And certainly,

you know, when you talk to the calls and brothers that strike, they'll tell you that the rate of growth of the 2025 cohort companies is about four times faster than the 2018 companies. And so every year the new batch of companies are growing faster faster because they're starting with all these new tools that, you know, because they see all the new companies on their platform. Exactly. And so when you think about an incumbent company that already exists, it has,

so whatever stuff, right? But that's sort of like, those are aspiring value assets. If it doesn't

change quickly and get onto the other side of this, I think it will go out of business, which is exactly

“the speech I gave to our team, you know, three years ago. And I think, you know, you have to be”

bold and you got to go make those changes to, to not only survive this, but to put the thrive. And, you know, I think about it, how do we prepare our company to be ready for the 2030s? Right. Isn't it like it's much more, it's kind of the storyline. There's more to do than there ever was. It's like when the internet or kind of came around, Sears doesn't just need to sell locally, they can sell to the world. Well, sure. I mean, this is the point.

I mean, we have better tools, we can do way more things, right? And, you know, when I hear people,

say, oh, you know, maybe we're just going to have all these great tools and we won't do more things. We'll just do the same things with fewer people. It doesn't sound right to me. I mean,

“there'll be some of that, but I think most of it will be, we're just going to do a whole lot more”

things. We're going to solve a lot more problems. We're going to accelerate scientific discoveries. We're going to invent all sorts of things. We're going to solve all sorts of problems that haven't been solved. And, you know, that's, that's super exciting. What do we have wrong on infrastructure? So, the original build cycle looked a lot like everything's in a data center. Everything's got to sit there. That's where all the intelligence, it'll all be in these kind of hosted proprietary

cloud models. Do you think that it's open source? Is it distributed on the edge? What is the intelligence? What is the inference set? And, how does that really change or kind of re-architect the industry, do you think? It's really all the above. I mean, it's not like there's one answer.

“I mean, certainly, if you go to any industrial company or natural resources company,”

advanced manufacturing, retail logistics, there's tons of inference at the edge. And that's growing very, very fast. And, you know, we make a lot of that embedded equipment. Certainly, you know, telcos are doing that too. I mean, it's pretty much every industry. Think about wherever data is being created, you want the AI infrastructure and the inference, you know, close to the data. You know, there has been this sort of re-balancing as companies that figured out, you know,

sort of everybody loves the public cloud, right? Until they get the bill, right? And when they get the bill, they're like, wait, this is supposed to save us money. Yes, it costs quite a bit more. So, you know, the lowest cost token is going to be the one that's generated right where the data is on the device. You're going to have, you know, tokens being generated on your phone, on your PC, in every embedded piece of equipment. And, look, we have an interesting perspective on this

business because we have 10,000 customers where they embed our product in their product. This is, you know, think medical devices, security, all sorts of things in hospitals and industrial plants. And, you know, any kind of, you know, data-driven activity, right, requires some kind of computing network storage infrastructure. Yeah. So, when you look at the desktop where you started, it's coming full circle and this must be at least very interesting or intriguing to you that

you see this open claw movement, everybody trying to buy the most powerful desktop they can.

And all these hobbyists who were your customers who were calling you up and ordering from, you know, dial their, their bespoke PC. Now they'll.com. What did I say? Dell.com. Yeah. You said ordering from Dell, calling us up. They order online using them. They order online now. Yes. I have this thing called the internet. Yeah. So, it works out pretty well. But this is incredible that they're like all stacking computers and running, you know, local models, just thinking back to how much the first

couple of computers I owned cost $4,000 in 1980 dollars. And then the prices came down. You could buy a Dell for 500 bucks, 800 bucks, like really nice laptops for that price. Use a promo code all in. No, he's not a sponsor. But do you think there's a world where we're going to start to see the desktop because people want to protect that data. They want to protect the skills they're building. They don't want to give it to Sam Altman, put it in a cloud somewhere. They don't want to give it to

a $10,000 desktop. Is that coming? I don't know if everyone will have $10,000 desktop, but that would be great. I mean, you know, you know, you know, so we have this Dell portal and hugging face. And we have all these open models and we qualify them on every kind of machine we have, and, you know, there's been enormous progress in the open source models. You know, Google has these Gemma models, GMA and they work really, really well on small machines. You know, OpenAI has their

open source models. You got the Nvidia Nemotron models. You've got, you know, enormous ecosystem of open source that is, you know, thriving and certainly open cloud. You know, there'll be some good discussion about that. How many people that have set up open cloud raise your hand? Oh my Lord, that's about what a 20% of the audience here. Yeah, so, you know, autonomous agents, big deal, and certainly inside companies, there's going to be a lot more autonomous

agents. There are significant security requirements that need to go with that. We need to, we need to be able to authenticate and validate who these agents are and what they're doing. And, you know, have the right controls and, and that's sort of thing. Yeah. And, uh, you're take on, AGI and when we're going to hit it, that you actually think about super intelligence and AGI and the, the two sets of problems that could solve their eye. And do you have a personal definition

“that you like to use for those when you're talking internally with your team of how things are moving?”

I don't really know Jason, you know, I think if it feels like with the latest releases, we're talking about this backstage, you know, the Gemini 3.1, the Opus 4.6, the Open AI 5.4, it feels like we sort of hit some kind of threshold where the just the quality of the models are just tremendous. And, and we, and when I listened to what our teams are able to accomplish in a day or two weeks that would have taken them, you know, a few months or nine months time,

you know, it's, it's just amazing the speed of, of innovation. Yeah. And so,

it, it seems to be continuing and we get all the reinforcement learning and there's also tons of private dark data that these models haven't been applied to. And that's sort of what's happening

“with these, I think the auto research is though, that's the key with auto research, the”

capacity to take a standard model and then retrain it on your private data and keep it private and build an advantage for your organization based on the history of your data that no one else has. That seems to be what a lot of folks are thinking about that have the capacity, but if you were to start a company today that was not in computing and you were to build a business from the ground up,

how would you architect your people and your organizational principles as an AI kind of first knowing

what you know about computing and where things are headed, are you hiring people, are you hiring a bunch of people to run a bunch of agents, how do you think about architecting and new business today? It's a great question. I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about that, you know, I'm thinking about how to, how do I, what the rest of us are thinking about? How do I run our company? That's hard enough, so. Yeah, everyone I talked to, that's the question. They're like,

everyone goes to these off sites and they're like, I'm actually doing this in my management team on

“Monday or doing like a tear down be like, hey, how would we build the business differently today?”

Yeah, I mean, what we've been thinking a lot about is the sort of this this reimagining question, yeah, you know, sort of, all right, we know the trajectory of the tools, one of the tools going to be in 272829 and how do we accelerate, you know, our path to that? How worried are you about social issues? So AI recently ranked as the most unfavorable term of a list of terms, including. Yeah, I saw that. It was somewhere between the ISIS, the Democrats,

ISIS, ISIS, and the Democrats, was better than AI. People like us, mass agents, more than they

like AI. Yeah. Well, I think, I think part of the problem is it's been, it's been, you know,

maybe sold as, you know, it sort of presents itself like a human would. Yeah. Right. And, you know, maybe if we called it linear algebra matrix statistics instead, may be that would be more friendly.

the positioning is wrong. And then we're not communicating to people, hey, this could help healthcare. This could make you live longer. This could help your kids get educated more. This could help with housing costs. This could help with food costs. Methodist messaging aside, I mean, how much do you actually worry about disruption or dislocation and employment, about acceleration of earnings for some people and desoloration

for other people in society that feel left behind? And that starts to fuel more of the kind of social concerns and politicians saying, hey, we got to stop building all the data centers, you know, like, that kind of stuff. And how much are you, really? I tend to be, you know, more optimistic. And, you know, I do think that in all technology cycles you get sort of these network effects. And that's kind of inevitable. But I also think, you know, we're going to do more with the tools.

You do have this acceleration of all sorts of great things. Education could dramatically improve scientific discovery, healthcare, energy, you know, all sort of the, the unsolved problems can be accelerated. And ultimately, I think it's, it's amplification of human potential and capability

“and extending the frontier to. And, and by the way, we should also remember that”

basically we're talking about here beyond sort of some of the advanced semiconductors and the, you know, big data centers. We're talking about software, right? Yeah. It's like software that runs in your computer. So, you know, somebody says, well, we don't, we don't want that. So, like, how do you stop total software? I mean, you know, it's how you're going to, you know, it's not someone going to open source model on their computer at home and asking it for medical advice. You know, New York just

passed a law saying AI models can no longer give medical advice. Yeah, it's being proposed. Oh, proposed. Yes. So you can give legal and health advice. We're anti software. It's like, yeah. So anti books and advice. So if you were going to look up in a book, but we are stopping into your Bernie Sanders right there. That was my Bernie Sanders. Michael Dowell. Do you do one percent of the one percent that you're unable in with your data

centers? Why are you doing this to the people of all great nation? Well, you'll give your money to children in their investor-merica accounts. Yeah. This is a good one you're doing.

“Yeah. Can we talk about an investor-merica? I think you might have even criticized that,”

but, you know, the bill units are giving children money and they're not asking us permission

and then those kids are going to buy things that their parents never asked for.

Well, they don't actually get the money till they're 18 years old. So that's, that's. But what gives you the right to give all children an education? What does this philanthropy? It makes no sense. No. I mean, honestly. Well, I see, I see my great friend Brad Gersner here. Brad's here? There he is. Brad, come up for this little segment here. Sit for a second. Let's talk about a mess to America. We got five minutes left here.

So, you know, I heard about the fifth best to get him around. I know, it's a beer. Nice. I heard this go down, Michael. I heard about this idea in 2021 from Brad. And I thought, you know, that's a, that's just a great idea. That's an awesome idea.

“And, you know, I think there were some discussions with the prior administration,”

but they didn't do anything about that, unfortunately. And, you know, here we are. You know, a miracle. You know, the, the, the, the West America Act was, was passed. And, you know, now we have thousands of companies that are joining in and matching the government's contribution.

And, you know, Susan and I made a big announcement, giving $250 to $25 million children in

zip codes where the median income is. >> I mean, Michael, this is what happened. This is one of the greatest. >> What do you think, Bernie? Do you approve? >> I'm going to take out this, but I just want to pause on this, because it is one of the greatest philanthropic gifts in the history of humanity. And, I, people have just kind of glossed over to it,

because there's a lot of big numbers in the world. But, we're talking about, you personally, you and Susan sat down and said, we're going to give a number. And, that number was $5,67 billion.

This is, let's, it's $250 to 25 million children ages two to ten in zip codes where the

median income is $150,000 or less. It's, it's $6.25 billion. >> I mean, and I just want to say something, you know, at a time where, but they have to sign up

accounts. You know, I think we're getting $100,000 plus kids now day, signing up.

“>> Yeah. >> First things for having me up. I mean, what a national hero and national asset”

that my friend Michael Dallas, but he understands this, because I've been working on this for four years. We've been talking about it on the All-In-Pod. We had a lot of momentum, but behind the scenes, Trump gets elected. And so it's April that we're in the middle of the tariff strife, April 25. We realize there's only going to be one piece of legislation that gets passed

during Trump's first two years. It'll be the, you know, this big beautiful bill, the reconciliation bill.

And so I call up Michael and I said, Michael, we got to go. We've got five days. We have the, it's drafted in the Senate. We have bipartisan support, but we have a window and like we have I have to get in the Oval Office. We have to get in the Oval Office. And, you know, Michael said,

“you know, what, what should the tech say? And you and I had a conversation and you, you know,”

you know, the tech's to DJT. Yes. I'm not talking, I listen, Biden, wherever you said on the political divide, I will say, I've said this. Trump seeks out ideas from business leaders and he has deep respect for business leaders like Michael Dell. Like, wherever your politics are, that's just the truth and the last administration didn't. And, you know, if it, you may have done the same thing. And this, and I just have to say this, investor America, it's not a red idea or a blue idea. It's a red

white and blue idea. Right? It's, it's a red. So, into the prior conversation, well, Michael, I first talked about it.

You know, it was, this is the right thing to do. Right. Like we have to reconnect the 70% of people who fill left out and left behind to the American dream. Right. But this is in our self interest. This is about defending the ownership society and capitalism that for 250 years created the greatest experiment in the history of the world. But that's at risk. Less than half of people on to the age of 40 have a favorable view of capitalism. So, when I talked to you about it the first time, Michael

understood both sides of it. It's the right thing to do and it's the right thing for the country. And so, at any rate, Michael Dahl, tremendous American have just won one punch up the name in West America, Trump accounts. What do you think? Well, you're considering this in the context of other philanthropy. I mean, how do you, how do you kind of put this together in the spectrum of how you think about giving back? Yeah, great question. So, you know, we have a foundation that's

very focused on children in urban poverty. That's basically the central focus of the foundation,

although folks in central Texas would know that we do a few other things here in our local community. And, you know, when I heard about this idea, one of my thoughts was, wow, this is like a platform for directly giving to the people that we're targeting, right? And, you know, we actually thought about doing it just in Texas first. And, you know, things have gone pretty well with the company and all that. So, you know, we thought we just go bigger. And what happens, Brad, if, you know,

10 more Michael Dells show up. And there are dozens, there's not a lot of Michael Dells. Let's be honest, but there is a number of folks who could make an equal size or even greater gift. There are people who, you know, many hands makes for light work. There are a thousand people who could make a gift of

“significance. What if this actually becomes a movement? And I think, I think it actually is”

becoming a movement instead of a moment. And, and, and we've, you know, we've got a lot of that queued up, Brad, a one shoe. Have you called anybody, Michael? Have you called my Michael, my Michael and I chair the University of America at Giving Committee. And we're ambitious, guys. So, we've, we've had a few conversations. We've tested people. Yeah. So, so, so, so, so, to just, there's a question early. First, it's really important to understand and for you guys to spread the word, every child under the age of 18. Every child under the age of 18 is eligible to claim their account. Number one. Number two.

You've heard this, I go, kids born between 25 and 28. No, this is forever more. The legislation creates as account forever more. Every child born in America starting January 1st, 2027 will automatically get an event. We'll get a Trump account, right? At birth, staple to their Social Security card. The $1,000 has to be reauthorized every four years. Okay, but the accounts don't. So, every

3.7 million kids a year will get an account that can compound as a 401k from birth. And yes,

we're going to have a lot of announcements, but it's not just billionaires. It's going to be companies that are donating stock on their IPOs into these accounts. It's going to be wealthy people. It's going to be states. It's going to be moms and dads. It's going to be corporations. And the estimate is over 15 years. We can move $5 trillion into the pockets of families that would have otherwise had zero $5 trillion. Right? And so, to me, the leadership that Michael

showed not only in helping me get the meeting, the ultimately got this passed into law. And it does take people like those moments either happen or they don't happen. And if they don't happen, there's no law and this doesn't change kids lives. By the way, two things on this. If this $5 trillion moved through government programs, it would get incinerated. Exactly.

“That's what we see happen. There's just a million crony structures that take it away and destroy”

it. So to give it directly into the accounts is the circumstance. The second thing is it makes a lot of sense that you guys can, I'll, I'll be the lead. But can we replace social security in this country with a defined benefit or defined contribution like this? And eventually, everyone has a trumpet count or whatever you call it. And we don't have to have this fake Ponzi scheme that we can do it. Well, they, they have a defined benefit program. But I'm saying like everyone has an account

and they all own a piece of their future. And every time you get a payroll detacks deduction, instead of it getting invisorated and destroyed and vaporized, that money actually goes into an account and you buy a piece of a company and maybe you can direct it. Freeworks get on July 4th of

this year. You're going to be one of those. So they're four and a half million kids who've claimed

their account almost $150,000 a day will have on the trajectory and we're on 10 million by July 4th or 250 at the anniversary of the country. Every one of those kids accounts, the parents and the kids on July 4th, they'll see an app on their phone that looks a lot like a Robin Hood app. It'll see them owning. It'll say you've received your $1,000 or your $250. And it will show a little bit of Nvidia, a little bit of Walmart, a little bit of Dell. We decompose the S&P 500,

which they own into the constituent parts. So they can get excited about being an owner in the upside of America. And when moms and dads double-click and Apple pay 510 bucks into the account, right, when they send their QR codes to their friends on their birthday and now their friends all add to the account or on Christmas or bar mitzfos. And they add to the accounts when companies add to the accounts, all of this they see it growing. And it unlocks the human potential. It's not just

“the money. It's the I'm in the game. I have a shot, which to David's point, I think the biggest”

crime of Social Security. And we made very clear. Social Security is a sacred promise. We refused and many people tried to get us to take on the broader struggle. And we didn't do it because we knew it would kill this program. But let's be clear about this. Our government requires all of us to give 10% of what we earn into Social Security. Right. It was the social contract evolution in the Industrial Revolution that kept the country together. The only problem is it goes into a black hole.

Nobody sees it. Nobody knows what's there. But it is your savings. Now imagine if that same money was required to, you know, government took it away. But it was in an account with your name on it, you could see it grow. You know exactly what was there. You could get excited and say, hey, I'm going to add a little bit more to that. Right. And you had a little bit of choice. That to me

“is, uh, is the possibility. And I think we will end up there. And Brad, thank you for. Yeah, let's get”

for, uh, and let's get started. Yeah, I'm just going to say, you know, Brad, Brad also adopted his home state of Indiana. We have Ray and Barbara Dalio adopted their home state of Connecticut. And many, many more to come. And, and, and look, it's going to be super easy for anybody to add 100 kids in your neighborhood, adopt a zip code, adopt a school district, adopt a town.

It's going to be amazing. Give it up for one of the great entrepreneurs of our time and an incredible

pleasure. I'm doing all of you. I'm doing all of you. I'm doing all of you. I'm doing all of you.