EMO DRAFT with Patrick Flynn and Chris Ryan

[MUSIC]

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it, can you please explain? Wait, like bands playing? [MUSIC] Ever this band in my life?

“Oh, you haven't, let's look out really wide.”

Yeah, I love this song. Oh, I don't know that one. Bans playing, bands playing, bands playing. I really like this band, whatever, I'm their biggest fan. Bans playing, bands playing, bands playing, bands playing, bands playing.

Bans playing. [MUSIC] What a polite crowd, what's up? [APPLAUSE] I got to say it, I got to say it, I got to say it.

Hello and welcome to Bans Playing. [APPLAUSE] Boston, hi guys. It's really cold. It's nice though, I love it here.

This is Yassie's first time in Massachusetts. That's right. [APPLAUSE] When I'm, Chris and I are really having, I really feel like this should have been filmed for some sort of travel document show.

We went to Anchovies, you guys been to Anchovies? Let's fucking go. I was the best place I've ever been in my life. Your site, yeah. Great chicken tenters.

We sit down immediately.

“They're like, here's a pint glass of dirty martini.”

The Google Dolls is fucking blaring.

I was like, OK, I'm never leaving here.

I live at Anchovies now, forward the mail. Well, you guys, thank you for coming out. And the-- what to you is probably an OK temperature and what to me feels medically unsafe. I live in the Boston people who've been brought to their knees by this.

So I really appreciate you guys coming out tonight. We'll try to make it worth your while. This is usually a show where I explain a cult band or an iconocardist. But today, guys, we're doing a little different. Today's episode is an emo draft.

[APPLAUSE] Thank you so much to something in the way fast for including us in our programming. We wanted to do something that was inspired by-- especially connected to the programming and the programming

of the festival. Tell you, it has some luminaries of the emo space. And what did you call them, some present day? Yeah. Like they have some present day emo bands.

They have members of bands that are in other bands that we're in bands that we're going to talk about tonight. And as I love sports, and I love drafting. You guys, you know who I am, I'm Yasi Sallik. But I'm joined as you also know by my colleague

from another mother, Christopher Ryan. Give it up for Christopher Ryan. Coming back to his college home town of Boston with me to do this. And we will soon be joined by a special guest. But before we do that, we have a little special surprise for you.

We have two weekend passes, something in the way fast to give away. And we were thinking about how to do that. And then I was like, let's do trivia. Yeah. And then Chris had a really easy question.

I don't know. It wasn't that easy. I didn't know it. I didn't know it. Yeah.

But I don't know anything. The inputs are not in the front of me. I don't think my brain is atled by taking into my generation. Should I do mine first? Yes.

Okay. How do we want to do this? Like how should we--

This is first person that you held out?

Should I answer? And if you're right, we'll give you a pass. Okay. The first one is, what was? Sunny day real estate had multiple names before they landed on Sunny Day real estate.

“What was one of the names that was also aligned from a Kurt Vonnegut book?”

I just a hard one, I ain't known. Who wouldn't have-- Ice bar? No. 10 for some ribs.

No. Oh, come on. No. Okay. You're right.

It was too hard. I'll just tell you guys, because it's really good. It was everything was beautiful. Everything hurt? No.

Okay. I should do yours.

Sunny day real estate when they initially got back together after their first two albums

was big huge albums. And they took a break. Their third album was called. There you go. Okay.

Winner. There you go. You guys should really listen to the Sunny Day episode of Band's Plan. There was a lot of really good information in there, such as that. And then the second one is TV related.

Oh, yeah. Okay. It's something in the way Band garnered maybe like mainstream acclaim or broke out when their song was featured in what football movie. And what song is it?

There you go. What's the two? It's in. See.

Well, not everybody here read Kurt Vonnegut.

You know? We were too busy. I have two small kids.

I won't be able to use that gift to do a new question.

What was the song? What was the song? What was the song? It was a movie. It was a movie.

It was a movie. It was a movie. When your questions are too easy, this is what happens. Fight. Sprake out.

It was a riot.

“Was your hand in mind not in feature in the motion picture soundtrack?”

No. No. I know. But like was it in both? Oh.

All right. You guys, please help me welcome our special guest, the beating heart of Boston hardcore on 26 of the band's have heart, fiddle head, and how much art also known as Mr. Flynn in history class. Patrick Flynn.

[APPLAUSE] Yuls. Center C, huh? Yeah. You have to middle.

It's the hot sea. You got the land you're not in everything. We love this. Yeah. The jet.

Welcome to Beans plans. Thanks for having me. Patrick Flynn. I love the pod. I have a shitty commute every day, two fold, and I get to laugh a lot.

“I think I said this before, but you talk about music in a way that makes me want to keep”

doing music, and where most people talk about music on podcasts are typically like. You mean the met in that talk about the vinyl that they're collecting in their basement? And then like, well, actually, did you know that the guitar tone on this swan was, um, kind of like, oh, you're done. Yeah.

Yeah. So thank God. What did you think he used? Thanks for having me. I'm going to do my best to talk about a emotional music.

So when we asked you to do this specific episode, were you initially, like, did you were you repulsed by the idea? Were you like? No. I'm, I'm, I'm, I like, I like emo.

Yeah. But it's still the Scarlet E. I think people still like feel weird about stepping forward and saying so. I, yeah. That's right.

It's funny how it comes about.

I heard, I always thought that it was thrash or magazine that, uh, you know, was trying

to, like, humiliate Ian McKay, but I heard just like a couple months ago, I didn't know this, but like Brian Baker claims himself to be like coming up with the moniker of emo core as he was, like, listening to rights of spring or something like that, which I thought was strange because like, he also wrote, can I say, which is pretty emotional. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know why he would say that. So I don't know exactly the genesis of it, but, um, yeah, it seems like it's, it came up as an attempt to try and like, uh, musculate, like hardcore, uh, which is strange, but I like how, I mean, it was kind of like, the thing I love the most is what Ian McKay said

isn't an embrace video. He's like, as if hardcore wasn't emotional enough, and that really spoke to me as a kid.

“And I think that that's where I was like, yeah, I'm, I'm into this, but like, in the”

late '90s and the early 2000s, it wasn't rights of spring, it was like, um, the, the people listening to emo were all like in really good shape, and they had a very tight t-shirts, uh, they had, they had relationships, and that wasn't like the vibe that I read and

like the DC scene, right, um, so, uh, but, uh, you know, I always appreciated the kind of like,

um, the sense of confidence that, uh, it kind of came from in the, the response to it being called emo core. So, I, you know, I'm not, I'm not like the bonehead, hardcore kid who's like, thinks that there should be like a strict, like, a part-eyed, like, divide between the scenes, I think that it is.

Everyone who's ever talked to, they've always said that the best time in which they've been going to shows is when it's been like, you know, a very eclectic mix of bands. Yeah, we were just standing that backstage. Yeah. So, yeah, let's go, let's go, let's start crying.

Let's go. I love, uh, is it, should I just deliver my, I should deliver my hot take up top? Sure. Um, and I'm, I'm sorry, we've turned further, I mean, the town square. I think that, you know, music can only be made by men.

Oh, wow. And I'll tell you, hear me out, I'll tell you why. I think it is a uniquely, um, depraved, and sort of, like, also a pathetic, but I love it, display of emotion. And now, it's very much like, what a novel idea to have emotion and self reflection

that is truly only, like, straight, cis men can participate in.

That's why, this is a compliment to when you're making direct eye contact you.

You're saying this.

She also works out this from, like, leaving LAX to basically over Springfield, Missouri.

I've, I've been on record for about this a couple of times and I've received some plaque. It's like Rainer Maria with, like, a word, and I'm like, I'm saying Rainer Maria's excellent band, and they're not doing that sort of needy and pathetic music, I'm sorry. But they would be considered emo, like, they're our caveat, they're like, they're basically,

like, oh, that's just like, that's my hot take. Yeah. It's hot take. Yeah.

“I just, I think, as a scholar and a total student of fifth wave, emo, which I did.”

Something I learned about yesterday, which I definitely didn't look up 20 minutes ago while getting Bob and T. They would probably challenge such a claim. Right. It seems to be very much the, yeah. Yeah.

Everything against that. It's starting to stretch, giving Boomer, when I say that, all right. Well, we're going to do a draft. Yeah. I'll tell you the guys, the categories, and then Chris will explain the rules of set draft.

The categories are 80s, 90s, parentheses, Midwestern, 90s, parentheses, other, 21st century and things that are spiritually emo. So, these can be objects, movies, scenes from movies, TV shows, what have you? Yeah, I can make other apps even, yeah, like a leaf turning colors. That's a giveaway pitch.

I know. I just put it out in front of it. And Chris, how do drafts work?

“The most people do know how to drafts work.”

It's like your fake idea about it is, it's basically, oh, where if there's going to

make sure that everyone here, I'm so, basically, school, pick a little group, which we're going to draft in. We are, we've decided we're going to do artists instead of albums, and we'll just talk about some albums. Even though there was some conversation about that, we'll do it in

this snake order, so we'll re-pix third, we'll pick first in the second round. And then at the end, we'll judge this based on your applause. Yeah. Okay, and before we get started, I do would like to go around an all circle and talk about your entry point into the world of emo, music, your personal history.

Okay. Yeah. Should I not look at you? It's a guess first. Yeah, Patrick Lynn first.

My intro to emo music. I don't think I've ever told this story publicly. It's a good one, folks. It's very emo. I loved middle school, loved history in middle school.

I had this great teacher, Mr. Hall taught history as if it was a problem to solve, and then I got the fucking high school, and it was just like a lecture, and I fell out of love with learning, and I started getting bad grades, and I was like, I'm stupid. And at the time, I was listening to the embrace self-titled, and I remember I got like my eighth, like F in a row, it must have been my sophomore year of high school.

And I had my headphones.

“I think James Whittle, who's now in Japan, had loaned me his recorded tape copy of the”

embrace self-titled, which I had in my walkman, and I had my headphones. I went into the bathroom, and I'm pretty sure I was like, I'm dumb, I'm just a dumb person, and I went into the bathroom, cried my eyes out while listening to building by a brace where the courses, I'm a failure, failure, it was in the bathroom stall. So that was like, that was when I was like, I think I'm not just a hardcore kid.

I'm that's so good, I don't know how I can talk about that. So that's when I was like, I'm bracing that. But again, I just remember the kids in the emo scene, they just were better at talking than me, and so I just was like, they were even better shaped than me, they were a size small t-shirts, and again, that's a theme for me right here, and I just couldn't connect

with them, so I just kind of always fell.

Would you check the back of their t-shirt to see what size it was before you decided to be friends with them? Didn't have to. These were small guys, and so like that, and I see them, it was like mostly the time in which like, saves a day, get up kids, were kind of like really popping off, and there

was such like a better, like kind of like, like indie movie aesthetic to all the record covers, and it was just so foreign from like the live big jump shot of the hardcore scene, I liked it all, because I, you know, but there was just something that wasn't of, I was looking

At it from the outside, but knowing that I probably should be on the inside, ...

to like lose weight, to fit into small t-shirts or something.

But anyway, that's kind of like my origin story of it, late 90s, so I was watching a pop-off. Similar time period, not a dissimilar story, but it was coming into it more through indie rocks, so when I was like in high school and right out of college, I was mostly listening like pavement and archers of love and stuff like that, which I loved and still loved to this day, but I didn't even think to myself that I was like, craving something different,

but when I moved here, a guy who I met in a class, this guy Steve, who's here tonight, I saw him one day wearing a pavement t-shirt, I can't remember the order of this, but one day was wearing a pavement t-shirt, so I was like, that guy looks like I could be my friend. And then another day was wearing a Texas as the reason t-shirt, I was like, I don't know what that is.

“And I think in talking to Steve, it wasn't even like he was like, are you emo?”

But he was like, they're all these other bands, like some of them were playing at his house

up in Mission Hill, some of them we could just go see at the rat or at Millie's, or whatever. And I just got introduced to all these bands, some of which would probably reject being described as emo, like the Vampel or karate or whatever, and so I think would fully embrace it, or at least fully new, like, breed or get-up kids, and it was like a whole new world. And just jumped in, I made sure I had small t-shirts and a great relationships, you know?

And you guys are forgetting about the really tight jeans that traumatized all the grown bands. Do you be like, what? Well, I just wear your pants, Daniel, like, well, no, I sure won't, that's not zipping up. And then you want to kind of want to K-L-Y-S, you know?

But they accepted my application, and I was, I was jumped in. You took you in. My story is like a little darker, um, you guys, this is the year 2000, I want you to picture you see Santa Barbara, young Yasi, she's wearing her diesel jeans, so thrilled to be living on the dorms.

Okay, maybe I wasn't romantically successful in high school, that's okay, babe, they don't know me here. Okay, I've developed a lighting disorder, I'm a little skinny, let's fucking go. We made a guy in the dorms, just drop again a garden, wish to God I could remember his full

“name, so I could doxin, but unfortunately, it was my first name, it was Josh, um, I think”

he was from the East Coast, actually, and he got a Josh from the East Coast. Yeah. Oh, put my guys to work on it. We gotta find him. He and he had an eye on a little flirtation, invites me to his dorm room, turns me

on to the get-up, kids, gorgeous, wonderful, it's just like something to write up. Yeah, because this was the wire, I don't know, it was 2000, so something to write up. I had come out the airport, and then we hooked up, and then he was like, don't tell anyone. He's not an e-mo kid, yeah, that's not a true e-mo kid. And I'm an e-mo kid.

No, he didn't like tell everyone. Well, that's the thing he wasn't, he was like kind of like a preppy, like popular guy, so I don't really know how he found, like he was like, I was like, I'm taking this from you because you don't deserve this, but fuck Josh is what I'm saying, it's on Zyper him. That's all.

I love to get up, kids. So I guess I, I was kind of what, I mean, took years of therapy to undo that, but... Do you Josh, a big band's playing listener? Yeah, I hope he fucking cries to it every night. The one that got away.

Yeah. She's mid-range podcaster, he probably is my sports guy, and he was like, I love Bill Simmons, and he's like, wait a minute, that girl looks familiar. We didn't do our TLDR about e-mo, doing each of that, everyone. Yeah, they're still a little bit of a TL, okay, you guys, as you know, it's a movement, started

with in Washington DC. I thought it was cool because according to Wikipedia, which I don't know if this is right or wrong, but they sort of credit Amy Pickering with conceptualizing it in general, because she worked at Discord, and she was kind of like pissed off about the sort of more macho, like, exclusionary direction that Hardcore was going in, and was trying to like

encourage the bands to like, maybe not to be so toxic masculinity.

“But yeah, so the first bands were like beef eater, rights of spring, right?”

Magnesty, embrace, as you talked about, gray matter, should we quote your pal Andy Green Old?

He said, the origins of the term e-mo are shrouded in a mystery, but it first came into common

practice in 1985. If minor threat was Hardcore, then rights of spring, with its altered focus, was emotional Hardcore or e-mo core. Once again, I love it, they were like, a little self reflection, and they're like, "Hold a new genre, right?" It's just so different, introspection, and that's it.

We just need one name to go to decide which the order is, so why don't you gu...

out the first name of the three people here that you see?

That's why I thought. So Yasi, you can go first, pack and go second, I'll go third, and I'll do the turn, so I'll pick twice. It's a lot of pressure on you. First, it's hard, and the categories are 80s, 90s, friends, this is Midwest.

I mean, Western, 90s, friends, this is other. Other, 21st century, just broadly, great, and then, especially like a sweater, like something that is spiritually. Yeah, purple, American apparel, a sip of sweatshirt. You guys, this is really hard.

I'm going to go 90s, other. And I'm going to go Sunday Day Real Estate, looking go, because you know what we're talking about? God. For emo, and we're talking about God.

Okay, I was just a riff a little more about Sunday Day Real Estate, well, I stand up. Did you get into this Sunday Day upon diary and upon, like, seven being an MTV thing, or was it more or less? But I didn't know that that was called, you know what I mean? Like, I just knew that this was, like, it was alternative music, because I think I remember

that as, like, an all nation, 120 minutes thing, like a cross. Sure. And then the pink album, LP2, kind of took on this, like, mythical status among, among my, my cohort, which maybe it didn't even have mythical status at all, and we were just a little bit confused.

I got a quick question about, for sure. Yeah. You want us to explain this? I mean, just a serums of the genre, like, I perceive them as, like, a 90s all, and I think we're going to have a lot of this today.

So, like, was that label applied, like, after?

“I think it, well, maybe, because they were, like, a band-out of Seattle, right?”

Did they have, like, any, like, hardcore roots for certain? No. Oh, they, they kind of made me into it was in this, was in Brotherhood, create Seattle, straight edge band. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I think when I was trying to pull my trivia out, they were in, like, they were all in a bunch of other bands in Seattle. Okay. Is it not emo?

No, it's only, is. You guys, what do you think? Yeah. It is. It is.

I just, like, I was just curious, like, did they, because I, like, the, my perception was, like, emo, the term, like, it may be died in the night, I don't, like, in early 90s, but I just feel like, in the late 90s, it becomes, like, that's the whole scene, and it was just kind of floating here and there.

There was also, like, a weird moment in that, at the end of that, sort of, first, I don't

know what wave it was, but, like, get out of kids' days, day, all these bands. And then they almost simultaneously start doing other kinds of music, very self-consciously, to, like, kind of separate themselves from it.

“And so that was what I remember, right, when I was leaving Boston, that was kind of happening,”

and that was, like, everybody would kind of, like, woke up and, like, we're kind of trying to sound like it. And I would shout-outs at the book out, but, um, no, it is a good point, it was kind of like, it's, you know, like, don't call me emo, man. Yeah.

That was the vibe. Well, that's the thing that, so my brother and sister loved really good music. They were older than me. My brother, you know, saw Nirvana happen, and then became an obsessive, compulsive student of everything.

And so he was, like, he was, like, that's cool, Nirvana's cool, but, you know, scratch acid is even cooler. And that's, like, where my, my, my brother was, and my sister, like, she was introducing me to our flow, and, um, you'll attend goes, painful record, and, like, she went on this trip to France and came back with, uh, if you're feeling sinister.

So they, they were, like, fucking cool. And, like, that was the kind of thing about, like, the emo scene is that, like, it wasn't indie. And, uh, so, like, if, in my perception of it, that was one more reason, because, like, it was, there, this is the late 90s, and I, this is before I really, kind of, really knew

that, like, what was happening in the middle of the 80s was emo, but my, my sense was, like, emo was, like, well played, not as embarrassing pop punk. Like, like, like, saves a day was a very much so, like, that's the emo scene. Right. See, but I guess, like, it, it is interesting, because, like, the 90s do seem, like, a bit

of a dead, especially the first half of the day, and he's, like, a dead space for, like,

any bands, like, were considered or called emo. And then you go to Midwestern emo, and you're like, okay, patience, zero is, uh, Victor Villarreal, you know, Captain Jazz, and these bands are not commercial at all. They're not really pop punk.

“Nobody really hears that, you know, and that's later, right?”

That's, like, late 90s, so it is, sort of, like, going back and labeling, but then,

To my year now, like, I can't believe I listened to Sunny Day amongst, like, ...

lofen pavement, and was like, yeah, oh, rock, where it sounds so fucking different, you know? Like, it's such a completely left of center, even for Indy, and, like, weird pavement

shit that, like, you're like, what is it, what is this music, and it's been by that second

record, and into his solo record there, become proggy and kind of post, like, they're doing like that. Rock stuff. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Yeah.

“What do you think, like, Steve Malcolm is thought of the emo scene?”

He seems like a kind of a snob, he kind of did 15 dollars that he has no idea. Yeah. I'm going to say that once again, Don Draper, I mean, I don't think about you at all. Yeah. I know, I know where that happened.

I'm sure he's, like, randomly played with a couple of those bands, but I can't imagine that he's like, yeah, I get of kids. What about, um, the tall archers of lofen, what's his name? Eric Bobby. Eric Bobby.

And what are what he thinks of the emo scene? I bet he digs it. I also bet he hears a lot of archers of lofen there. Yeah, yeah. I hate a lot of that in there.

I hate a lot of archers of lofen modern day hardcore, and I'm always saying it.

Yeah. For sure. What about, what, you're up again? Yeah. So I guess.

Okay. Sunny day off. Yeah. I'm envisioning that, like, my pick is like, this is my world, like, and this is, the only, like, what I pick is sure you can come to paths world.

Yeah. In paths world, these are the only five bands. In paths world, these are the only emo bands that exist. Yeah. I did say to my buddy Darren that if right to spring is off the table, before I can pick

it, but I'm leaving immediately. So I'm just going to secure my presence here. I'm going to go with the right to spring. Uh, just say. It's good.

Thank you. Good solid. Yeah. And in my world, you can come see right to spring. They play.

They're out. Yeah. They're out here. Yeah. I'm just looking.

That's a really good pick. What do you like about Reds of Spring?

The first song I heard by them was "For Want Of" and I loved this song, dancing with

myself. Yes. That's it. Fucking god tier. Yeah.

But if you listen to dancing with myself, and then you listen to "For Want Of", that's the same fucking riff. Yeah. Just kind of sped up. You're like, really?

Go and listen to it. And I loved it. I am not billiard. I don't going to come back for some discord. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I just, I loved that. It kind of bridged a little gap for me. But there wasn't like, as I was like becoming a student of like the 80s. It just, there wasn't, I couldn't find a single other song that had anybody from like

a hardcore band, you know, just playing a riff like that. And then there's also, like the drink deep, like every fucking one of their songs, it's all over the place. And it's rough, it's also kind of like scary at times.

“End on, I remember hearing, end on, and for the first time.”

And I just thought that this was just like the most like epic way to end a record since only in dreams by Weezard, that's just like a hardcore vibe. Yeah. You know, all of them high. Were you ever, was there ever any internal debate since you embraced was like this formative

record for you of being an embrace or a rights of spring fan, like was it an either or ever? Oh, I had like a pretty intense argument with Patrick Kinnland from Drugcher, it's himself to fence family. Fellow podcaster.

Yeah. Fellow podcaster. And I wanted to fight them because of what he said to me. I'm basically team in brace and he said something so offensive he was like, the person who takes in brace over rights spring is the person who doesn't understand music.

And I was like, oh, that's not insulting, you fucking asshole. And his explanation of, it's talked, I didn't, I didn't find it very convincing. But then you didn't just draft in brace. I know, I'm being a little careful here. Okay.

And you don't want Patrick to listen to us and think that you chose the wrong thing. No, no, he can go fucking self, but they're, they're, they're, you know, Brown's hero.

“You know, so I think that that's a, that's a, that's a big deal.”

I mean, you can come see the first team in my world. Yeah. I love that. They're headlining. Um, okay.

Chris, right. Let's go. Um, 90s mid-western, yeah, I'll take promise, right? Delaware, you will wear this thing on, I've been wanting to do that this whole year.

You're going to say, how much promise are you going to sing while I write thi...

Um, that's really, that was kind of my, that was my, my bed. Do you know what you want to do any other promise, man? Do it. They, they, they, they, they spoke to me as like very emo when I had, like come across them. I mean, the name is, is a pretty emo band, I literally kind of was a little confusing

thought they were Christian. Well, just because sunny day was kind of Christian, you know, like a later kind of more really Christian and that, that would be a great category for a later draft like bands that are spiritually Christian. Or whatever, then I feel Christian, but are not, you know, yeah, um, damn, what a good.

“Uh, this is a band, I think, try to remember exactly whether or not I did hear 30 degrees”

everywhere first, or if I heard nothing feels good first and went back to 30 degrees

everywhere. 30 degrees everywhere, uh, I think weirdly I prefer something, like, I mean, a 30 degrees everywhere era, I suppose, uh, even though that record is one of the most strangely recorded records, uh, that I know, it's just been basically snare, um, I, there was a, a pocketful probably rumor that the engineer Brad would have blown his hearing out,

recording tortoise, and couldn't really tell that like, what was going on, and it was just like sounds good guys. And then like, yeah, it's all, it's all, it's all, it's all, it's all, it's all, yeah. Um, so I don't, I don't know if that's true, but I, I love these guys. And I remember, one of the things I liked about them was the lyrics were like, relatively

opaque. They weren't as direct as I think we probably associate emo lyricism with. It was, like, a lot of, like, cut up ecoming style poetry stuff, and it was really good.

Um, David Vaughn, but can I just say I do feel that if you could draft Davey Vaughn ball,

and that would be like the number one draft pick of this entire thing, who's to say I'm not

“drafting him spiritually, uh, but just like, you know, from Captain Jack, like, he's”

really like, been in it. Yeah. He's been about this life. And then for my other pick, I'll do 90s, not Midwest, 90s, other, and I'll take Jimmy World.

Uh, which I just, great, episode listeners, yeah, my favorite band's way that we've done together. Oh, you could say, Jimmy, we're, we're available for the 21st century, since they recording career went into the 21st century, obviously, but Clarity's my favorite record by them.

And that's some 99, which is 98, and uh, yeah, we just did this and, uh, I kind of like static prevails. They're first record, too. So I'll take them at 90s, also more David Vaughn ball and CPA featured, he's, he's everywhere of it.

Um, I have a little Clarity story to share.

They have never told the public before.

Um, excellent. We're getting so many confessions. So I have a lot of stuff. I've been saving up for this.

“You don't, you don't like, sit the class down and you're like, okay, we're going to get”

him to World War II and just a second. And then talk to you guys about Jimmy, World's Clarity, well, yeah. It sounds called lucky, Denver. Yeah. Uh, I'm going to start big.

Uh, you, there's this football team called the New England Patriots. Um, some of you are probably wondering why the fucking you talking about them, uh, but there's this famous game, uh, played by this, uh, new quarterback, by the name of Tom Brady, who was called a snowball. You ever heard of it?

[laughter] At this. [laughter] Where am I going? I'm going to bring you there.

[laughter] I was at my girlfriend at the time's house, who is now also my wife and the mother of my children, um, and, uh, it was snowing a lot. And, um, I had just bought Clarity that day before I went to her house. And what's the, the famous snow keeps falling song, you know, you know, you don't want

to talk about some Clarity? Blister? Yeah. Blister. Yeah.

So wonderful. But we had, like, the instead of watching the snowball, uh, which was live on TV, uh, we were out in the snow under, like, a nice, beautiful, kind of street light, uh, just hanging out in the snow and, uh, you know, when my mom picked me up the next day, uh, put, put in, in, uh, Clarity on the CD player, and that song came right on and it's just been locked

into the old dome here for a wonderful life memory. This is, that was a pretty emo story. All right. That's what I like about it. Snow is falling.

Yeah. It was my now wife. So I took that over the Patriots because sports suck and, uh, music is way better.

Yeah.

I was wondering if maybe you'd gone back and watched the snowball.

It's a pretty good game. No. No. It was, you know, time in the snow with my, uh, future wife.

“Um, does it go back to Pat, or it goes back to Pat?”

No. Oh, okay. So next can't agree. Don't take it. My, don't take my twist.

I didn't know what it doesn't don't take them. I'm just going to take Kevin Jazz. But okay. It wasn't that. Um, 90s Midwest.

90s Midwestern. Yeah. Let's go console brothers. Yeah. Big, big, big fan.

Uh, I, um, thank you. Can you say the entire album name? And Alphina Battology is a, um, something like that. I can't say it without my, thank you there. Oh, okay.

Here it is.

“Here's an interesting point for balloons, sports, cards in the spokes, automatic biographies,”

kites, kung-fu, trophies, banana peels, we've slipped on, and eggshells. We've tippy-towed over. That's right. That's not it. Well, album title.

I do think that little league is the greatest, uh, emo song ever written. I don't think that there's a single better one than that. I hope I have this, uh, playlist that I've told my wife to, uh, play if I ever go into,

like, you know, I'm like, you know, a vegetable, just, and the first song on it is little

league. I want to play it at my fucking funeral, uh, it is, it's just like the most perfect song of all time, I think. And you can ask about some of the other, uh, coma playlist songs, uh, yeah. I got, um, I got, uh, street hassle by Lou Reed.

It's a long, you turn on. Oh, yeah. I'm usually play one of the jukebox and restaurants that have the digital jukeboxes. It just flexed a little bit. Yeah.

I got born slippy by underworld. That's, that's all. Yeah. How, yeah. That one's on there.

Uh, yeah. That, that, that, that gives you a little taste of the, uh, it's called the, um, deathbed playlist. She knows to, she knows to pull it out, play it, it's, it's your sandman's not on there, like nothing, nothing like, darted, like, back to the black definitely. Yeah.

That's in there. So Victor Varyal took classical guitar lessons as a kid, and according, um, to, uh, that Steve Holmes, who plays, yeah, he thinks that his guitar teacher should get credit for inventing all Midwestern emo because taught him the open sea tuning. Yeah.

That was essentially, eventually also stolen by American football and kind of created that sound. That's interesting. That's the tuning where you just like, you can just strum it and then everything's sounds good. This feels like a cheat code.

When he did it, it was EACG CE, and then Steve added the F on the low E string, um, literally. It's like, I'm reading absolute Russian here. I don't know. I didn't know what the fuck I'm saying, but maybe some of you, guitar center heads would

look at that. It is true. Like, that you can draw a straight line from that guitar sound through, get a kiss, something like that. Speaking of, you're going to go for it?

Time for me to draft. Emo. Are you going to sing "Mass Me" for everybody or? Um, God, there's a, you'll be accepting my apology for taking things to seriously.

“Sometimes I think, come, come, come, come, come.”

Well, listen to me. Listen, listen, listen, you. I'm drafting get up kids for 90s Midwestern. Well, I, that, I like both four minute mile, obviously, and something to write home about, but it's just something really fucking special about something to write home about for me.

The album art? Yeah. To have the one with the running socks or the album art is the, the robot. And right now the artist is totally escaping me and I know, mother fucker. I guess no.

Fun story about four minute mile, actually, can you share real quick? Uh, when I was in exchange student in Ireland in the late 90s, we had like a homestay. I like start the experience and it was like a village outside of Dublin, like, I know 45 minutes. And I, you know, have my CD booklet, and I played four minute mile for like the teenage girl.

I think it was like the daughter of the family.

I don't know how I did this or if I like let it happen, but basically like there was like

an assumption that this was my dance. And I let them kind of go with it for a while. Like, and when I say a while, I mean, now 27 years. So I was just like, yeah, they're like, this is your pond. And I was like, yeah, I mean, it's like the band that I brought with me to America in my CD case,

but like, I didn't stay that part. And so there's somewhere out there. There's an Irish girl is just like, I know that button that get up kids. I thought you're going to say you brought second wave emo to Ireland. To Ireland.

I kind of do that. Yeah. I mean, my good gut up kid's story is because like this type of emo was not talked about.

It wasn't like, it wasn't like, it wasn't like on MTV.

You know what I mean?

“By that time, it's like either you were like into that or you weren't into that.”

So it wasn't like, I was like, I don't know what the fuck they looked like.

You know what I mean? Like, you didn't, there wasn't a lot of media about these bands. Oh, I see what you mean. You're not like, right? Like, I mean, I'm sure they were like covered in like a spin here and there.

But like, I had no idea what they looked like. And years later, this is maybe like, because maybe 10 years ago, I'm at some festival outside of LA. It was like the black lips were playing a thing and I'm backstage quite drunk. And I'm talking, I'm just like struck up a comment as you do when you're quite drunk,

you know, just like some guy in a suit. And we're just chit chatting and smoking or somehow like emo music comes up and I was like, yeah, but you don't even, you don't even fuck with the get-up kids, like I fuck with the get-up kids. He was like, I was in that band.

It was Rob Pope, the bestest of the get-up kids. He was there playing with Spoon. And I was like, what?

And he was like, yeah, and then we hugged him.

He was like so excited that like that was the thing I pulled out because he was a god to be like, that's my band. That wasn't that band. I was like, that's so cool. This is a special moment for me.

I, I, um, I don't like the get-up kids. It's okay. I don't dislike them, uh, but they were like, wow. No, I respect people that like them. I don't, you guys, thanks for doing a little salad here, I'll just say it's good attention.

A little attention is not all just high five each other. What if I was like, okay, and now I'm bringing out Matt prior. We're trying to the pod. We like Matt prior. I, I was pretty intensely straight edge and hardcore when I had discovered them.

And it was kind of like, you know, it was like you don't hang out with them around 1999. Those kids. Yeah. And you don't, you're going to be picking a sigh if you like the get-up kids. And I also thought that they were from Massachusetts.

Well, they clicked. They've met a lot of Massachusetts iconography in their songs. Was he in love with somebody from Massachusetts? I think he was. I didn't get like a long-distance relationship with somebody from Massachusetts.

I'll give him a shot that I should stare at receivers to receive her, isn't fair. That's fucking, that is potent Shakespeare. I'm going to, I'm going to give him a shot. I'm not a hater. I'm personally hurt by this.

I'm going to need you to revisit something to write on about. I will, I will do that.

“He does have the vocal tonality that I think is really, um, heavily associated.”

With this genre for better or for worse. I like it. But I do think it's been overused subsequently. When he was doing it, that was like, you know, that was a shit. A little shipper chunky.

Very much fucking super shipper chunky. I think it's making it. I wonder what super chunk thought of get-up kids. I thought they actually, like, would that be your podcast? Backstage Pat was pitching as podcast.

I said, your podcast should just be you bring on 90s. Sort of like indie rock bands and then ask them, what did you think about the get-up kids? Yeah. Cap power. What do you, what did you think?

It's like subway takes. It's just five minutes long. You just get this, like, quick to band reaction and then you're like, all right. I think it'd be a good pod. I agree.

Seeing them in the 90s was the first time that I was like, oh, eight, like, it was, like,

one of the first bands that I saw, who were all, like, they had a uniform, like, they kind of were like, dressed like the outsiders. Yeah. And they had, like, stage moves, kind of quasi choreographed, not even in a bad way. But just, like, they were, they had thought about it.

“And it was the first time I was like, oh, I think these guys are, like, trying to be big.”

You know what I mean? Yeah. It was like, get a kids and braid, or the ones where I was like, kind of feeling- Yeah, it was a braid was trying to get big. Kind of, yeah, because they had, like, braved, like, had moves, like, braved, like, braved, like, braved.

Yeah. I feel like if they had come out either much earlier or much later, they would have been big. They just hit a dead spot. Get a kids. And braid, maybe.

Well, get a kids. I mean, I just saw them play, like, they opened it for Jawbreaker and like, that's a blues in Anaheim. Yeah. That's big to you.

Well, they're still touring. You know, like, my chemical romance has sold out Dodgers Stadium. [LAUGHTER] I have a big map rire with, like, perhaps had a different level. You may have a choice.

You may have a choice. Any other bands that I like that you hate? Pat well. While we're on the subject. Okay.

I'm going to do 80s goats. We, Fred, that was 80s parentheses goats. Yeah. I'm going to do Moss icon. Even though I do, I fucking love.

I forgot how much I love Moss icon until I was, like, we're standing over this. Can I just say, because one of us who's going to say it, this is a real, I'm not, like, other girls pick for you. Yeah. Well, I mean, is it, like, I won't say what my other pick was going to be.

But I don't, I think, I mean, there's, like, I wasn't going to pick embrace.

This is not really my jam.

Okay. I like embrace. But, like, why not? I like them. I've heard cancer.

You're not, like, other girls.

No, you know? I, I do like embrace. I think they're really good. I was just listening today. Money goes hard.

Still, like, dance a day. It's so good. And maybe this is cheating. Because, like, I was just thinking, well, like, I'm going to say get up kids. And then Moss icon.

And you're, like, those bands have zero percent income in.

“So, like, is it, like, are these in the same genre, you know?”

I think in the 80s, like, this, I mean, you're probably a better music. You're probably a better musical historian than I was, like, Moss icon. Would you consider that emo? When you hit me up about that, I was, they, they were on my radar. Am I disqualified for kids?

No, no, no. I think that they're definitely, it's a big ten play there. It was, yeah.

Maybe it's not necessarily proto, you know.

But I don't think it got, I don't think it got the, the targeting of the, of the label. But it's definitely in this melodic sense. I'll tell you, is the album cover very emo. Yes. That sort of ancient, headless, armless sculpture.

And he's, like, it was, like, into the 80s and into the 90s for that price. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I just, they, just, were fucking good. Yeah. I got a heavy, too. Yeah.

“I think, maybe that's what I, it's totally possible that it was just, like, a”

Reasonsy bias of having, of listening to all this stuff and then being, like, so happy to have something a little heavier. And be like, well, fuck with those. Okay. Dude's from this band.

I believe one up being in Universal Order of Armageddon. Well, I really fucked with. Uh, did they do a reunion? Hey, there's a go. I missed it.

Yeah. And, uh, I think one of the guys in that band is this very successful pastry chef. That's a podcast I would listen to is, like, where are they now? Oh. Oh.

What do you do? Like, David von Bullen, CPA, Moss icon. I mean, do you think he makes, like, like, like, like, the drive, like, J, who don't not place, like, he makes, like, little pastries that are named after. Old DCR, of course, don't just defend these.

Uh, Pat, sir, sir. All right. Uh, I want to go with, um, Sam, I am. You got to pick a category. Oh, 90s.

Oh, 90s. Oh, another. It was tough. And I left it here for you. I want to, you know, that I was, I really wanted to be graceful for you.

Because as you know, we both love this band. So much. And the best record in my opinion is, uh, a straight. I think we can all get this in. Does it, do you like Sam, I am?

Crout. Yeah. It's not enough claps. Yeah.

That was going to be my third trivia question.

It was going to be, like, I guess maybe this crowd would have known. That was going to be like, what, uh, Gilman Street band. But later birth, Sam, I am. It was, I saw Crusty. That was not going to get caught.

Yeah. You guys. We have to work on it. You have to work on your trivia. Uh, I saw Crout, pretty creepy.

I, um, obsessed with them. I, I came, uh, I came into contact with, there was this, uh, comp that was for $1 at hot topic in the late 90s called the new red archives comp, which was the label that put out the first couple of Sam I am records. And, uh, I was pretty, it was like, it's like a slew of, like, you know, pretty intense, mostly Bay Area bands. Like, there's this one song called, um, thinking of suicide by social unrest.

It's like, very, like, pretty awesome, like California punk. And then it's just like this three, Sam I am songs that just sound like, it's, it's, it's late 80s and then they're in the 90s. And they're song, there's sound totally evolves.

“But I think that they're a pretty significant band.”

Um, because I really do think that, like, um, one of the things I loved the most about the, uh, run for cover, uh, record of, from title fight was, uh, I noticed that title fight had kind of shifted their sound a bit. And I remember seeing Ned, uh, at a show and he was rocking a Sam I am long sleeve. And I was like, "Oh, awesome. I just fucking totally love Sam I am." And, um, and then they went on to put out, uh, shed.

And I remember just thinking, "Wow, this is, this is right on the nose for me with Sam I am." This is just, just exactly what I want to do. And like, I, uh, I'd love to do a band that's like capturing that Sam I am sound. If you listen to this song, uh, steps on, which is on the, uh, the clums, uh, things on clumsy. Uh, you'll, you'll see, like, especially on, uh, records, like, uh, shed, and a little bit of floral green.

You'll, you'll, you'll, you can hear that little whale thing that title fight, like, just become total masters of, but I, I really kind of see it, like, as like the ingredient for what made Sam I am, exactly what they are and, uh, man, I mean, I just, just love that. I punished, uh, Sergei, uh, the guitarist, I mean, you came to a fiddlehead show a couple years ago, and I just, just about a straight hour and a half of me just asking him random questions about things he didn't even know about,

but I needed to get answers on. And I did. Uh, and--

Is there, like, a lot of Sam I am, Laura, that you can accrue that you can as...

or is it? I have to pre-interest, I mean, just the Gillman Street Roots, a trade cool play drums with them for a year,

randomly on, like, maybe nine. Yeah, because they're all, they're all from that Gillman Street scene, like-- Yeah, and they were, like, I was curious about what it was like when they signed to a major, and it didn't really go the distance, but, uh, they were just talking about, like, what it means to be, like, a big band,

and I remember Sergei told me the story that, like, they were on tour with that religion, played a 5,000 people somewhere in New York, and then the next night, they played to, like, 600. And it was just-- it was an interesting perspective to see, and he was like, that's, like, what it is, because he was-- he was trying to say that, like,

you know, like, if it'll let his, like, you know, is a big thing, and I'm like, "Are we?" And he's like, "No, this is a big thing," and I was like, "Cool, thanks. God." [laughter]

“But, yeah, I think that they're, uh, they're just totally great.”

And, uh, so if you come on down to my world, you're going to see rights of spring,

you're going to see Captain Jazz, and you're going to see, you know,

prototype of flight in the form of a sandwich. I-- I think Sam, I am, is a criminally underrated. Do you-- do you-- have you listened to them at all? So this happens-- I think my-- my-- what remains to you. If I believe how to Sam, I am record that would get played sometimes in our apartment,

but I was actually more into a band called Napsack that was around at this time. And that was, like, I-- I have no idea, like, I'm sure Sam, I am influenced to abstract, but, like, that was the sort of California pop punk that went into, like, more complicated song structures, band that was pretty intense. They were kind of accepted by the indie world.

Yes. Yeah. I'm hoping that this talk will help us understand that there's something going on between emo and the indie scene there. Yeah.

Like, like, a complicated negotiation about what isn't, isn't exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, Napsack was, like, you're cool. Like, then you were like, you can come here and, but not Sam, I am, then that's fucked up.

I remember going to see Napsack at Middle East upstairs, and at the drive and opened, and, wow. And I was like, holy fucking shit. Just, like, I'm not seeing anybody do that.

“And, like, I think they were, like, nine people there.”

But, it was not, like, 'cause I was just, like, a random opening slot, and they just brought that us down. Yeah. I was speaking of what Paul was just talking about. I'm picked title fight for, uh, 21st century.

Let's go, Ned. Shut up, shut up, Ned. Hi, I'm here. I'm a big glitter girl, glitterer. I'm a glitterer boy.

Yeah. So, fucking. I think it rules. Uh, I think this song, hello. The big glitterer is, uh.

Wait, frankly, the best song of the, uh, 2020s, and we're, like, about six years in. So, you're just, for, in the next four years, don't matter. Glitterer. Pretty much like you gotta, you gotta do better than that. I think it's a perfect song.

You can listen to it. Just get into a trance.

And I, I just, uh, I'm, uh, I'm always pumped when glitterer has a new record out.

Uh, I'm in my late 40s, so there will be gaps in my, like, kind of, engagement with any given genre music for certain amount of time. But as I got back into hardcore, more significantly, and then into, like, stuff that was floating around a hardcore, like, this is one of the bands I got. Super into title fight.

And they reminded me a lot of a band that used to love in the 90s called Garden variety. Uh, and just, like, this kind of chaotic noisy, but still really melodic stuff. And I just, I love them. Yeah, and I love glitter too. Glitterer.

Um, what, what do you think of title fight? I like title fight a lot. I, your voice went really high when I said that. No, I do a, I was, to be honest, I only kind of got into them, like, after they, didn't really exist that much anymore.

So, like, I don't want to, like, claim things, like, because I'm just, like, all,

“and we were talking about this backstage and I think we can talk about it more here.”

Because I have a feeling once we finish drafting you guys will be like, uh, hello, what about, like, the wave of emo that made all of the money that everyone cares about. We're going to be like, we don't know her. Um, but, like, I just, like, didn't, I wasn't really checking for new, like, I don't want to give away what I'm going to pick for this thing.

But, like, there is a band, obviously, that I know really well in that same time in genre that I just kind of listened to that. And then I didn't, I just, like, you know, you stopped, you just kind of stopped paying attention for a while. Sure.

That was like, because I don't know. I'm sorry. So a lot of the bands that wait, I mean, you would, I've heard them referred to as hardcore adjacent as post hardcore, like, the terms getting thrown around, like, I hate the adjacent thing.

Yeah, I think that you live next door. It's a really hell's post office box. I am in it's funny because Bob Shed, where it acts the grind world, not to bring up a competitor. No, it's an awesome podcast.

I'm, I'm hard. Um, he once used a term that I thought was, like, perfect for the sound that, because I, I, I just think, title fight is such an interesting band.

Uh, I, I saw them when they were, like, in middle school fifth or six

graders, like that.

“Um, like, I, I think it really helps that their older brother Alex was in,”

uh, this band called Cold World that was, like, very much so at the time, perceived as, like, the hardest fucking hardcore band you could have. And I remember, uh, outside of wearing title flight shirts, and it was an amazing moment just for watching, like, these, like, super hard kids who, and most of the time were, you know, having, you know, pancakes made by their two parents that

were home and did a lot of money. And you could tell there was this, like, we can, like, we, we don't have to be super hard all the time. Yeah. We can, we can cry.

We can, we can, like, melodic things and let's do it. And then, like, whoo, like, it was just suddenly, like, it was okay to, like, pop punk and emo and cold world at the same time. And that was very much so through, uh, by way of title flight. And, and the thing that I, like, that they're hard to define, you know,

in term terminology, you know, it's their emo, but they're also not emo. They're hardcore, but they're also not hardcore. They're, they're indie, but they're not indie.

And so the best term I've thought that I've always really liked was, uh,

was non-core. It's this, like, there's, like, it is, but it isn't. It's, it's sort of not. And, uh, I just kind of, I also just, general kind of hate genres. They create form and kill spirits and stuff like that.

But I get the purpose of it. But, um, that always felt like, like, a good term for it. You know, of course. We had a, we were playing a game.

“I don't remember who it was with recently because we were trying to think of, like,”

which genres are the ones that people are like, don't call me that. And, and then which genres are like, fully, like, yeah, I'm, I'm more hip-hop. You know what I'm saying? It's like, trip-hop, emo, grunge. It's like, nobody was like, I'm that.

It's so interesting. Because then there was other genres that, like, yeah, I played jazz. Right. I don't know what, I don't know what makes the thing a thing. Pat, you're up again.

Oh yeah. Um, so I've picked, uh, 80s, Midwestern 90s, 90s, 90s, 90s. So I'm in the 21st century now. Or things that are spiritual things that are spiritual things. Or things that are spiritual things that are spiritual.

Okay, you have a double, it's true. Yeah. Am I bad? You just did one title if I think guys. Sorry about that, guys.

Yeah. You've got one. Um, 80s. I'm going to do one that I know way can claim being, like, of always been down.

But I love squirrel beat. And so I'm going to pick them. Even though I'm not like other girls. No. I got one guy clapping.

Um.

If you have heard squirrel beat, they're incredible.

And they basically sound like, "Plaw, western bird singing for who's good to do." Um. And they went on to be gastroidal soul and slant a bunch of other bands.

And this is kind of on that indie, uh, Emo at the core axis. Um. Very much kind of coming out of SSD and Zachron Trust. And like that kind of sound.

But this is just like incredible rock music. That is emotionally sincere.

“So I think qualifies him was one of like, you know,”

10 bands in the 80s kind of sounded in this, in this general sphere. So I go squirrel beat for 80s. Well done, Tara. You, you do when the, I'm not like,

I got their girls award for that. [laughs] Oh man.

So I got to, I got to think something right now.

20 years. We can riff for a little bit. In the instant time. I'm just an entire century of worked. Two from him.

Yeah. So yeah. That's a good metaverse. Yeah. We can come back.

How old are you? 40. Okay. So you're the youngest out of us. Yeah.

Um. I'm 43. I'm older than that. Okay. [laughs]

All that to say. Just some of this stuff. Just, I, I just, I just missed it. I just didn't, it was not aware of it. Until way later, you know.

A lot of 21st century stuff. Like, in the beginning part, I experienced through the, like, lens of being a rock critic. So it was often thought of of, like, how is it important to the grand tapestry of,

of monoculture, right? Uh, that didn't work out for rock criticism. Um. Um. And, uh, so yeah, like, I have relationships with some of those bands.

And, um, I don't think that's going to pick up. I've said it once and I'll say it again. I spent about 10 years listening to only the Smithson Dipset. And I was not aware of what came out during those 10 years. And that's right around with those bands who are coming out.

Well, it comes with bands flinging. Hello, it comes with bands flinging. [laughs] I'm, I'm realizing. You know, I, I, I, I was going to, like,

the outfit, Coto doesn't really fit that, the emo world, but it's definitely not not emo. It's very political, but there are 90s, there are 90s, there are 90s. I just, I think, for my 21st century. I guess I'm left the old run for cover world. Uh, Tiger's job.

I'm going to pick up a Tiger's job.

Yes.

Hey, look at that. Good man.

Um, I, my, my first time seeing them was, was perfect.

Uh, it was, um, that sound and fury festival. I think 2010. Um, someone took a motorcycle, um, and drove it into the festival, which was, like, wasn't an outside festival. It was like, uh, and also wasn't, like, uh, the festival wasn't on, like, a motorcycle track.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Dude's rock.

“Was it, like, check out my earlier, or was it more disruptive than that?”

It was like, uh, I think it was, I think it was, like, gold rolls about the plate. Let's show it on a roller cycle. Some like that, uh, fun fact about a pretty sure, maybe, and get fact checked on this. But the guy who, uh, I believe, who wrote the motorcycle in, in the, uh, into the fest, was one of the Burger King kids. I don't know if you remember those commercials.

He was on a young kid act. How would we fact check this? [laughter] I think I know the guy. Yeah.

That's true. I'm pretty sure that was him. Uh, but anyway, festival shut down and we're like, fuck, uh, you know, tiger's jaw was supposed to play. And so, like, California being just, like, the, you know, one of the best places in the world to play music. Just fucking figured it out and said, you know, let's just, let's, show us the, you know, foundation and, uh, tiger's jaw.

Uh, I think it, this band called Brace War, we're going to just do a backyard thing. There was, like, 3,000 people at the fest. [laughter] And, uh, I don't think the young, twenty-somethings really thought about the fact that, like, you know, you, you tell this to 3,000 people then. They're just going to go to this house and fucking people.

They're going to show up.

“Uh, and so, uh, they basically did, and just, like, one little side streets, I think near,”

it was like, like, seeing a barber at the time or, I don't know, I could be wrong. But there was, like, look, like, a thousand people literally just on the roof of this poor kid's mom's house. It was just like, watch us. [laughter] And, uh, I, I hadn't really, uh, dove that deep into tiger's jaw at the time.

But this is right around the time that, like, it was now, there was, like, a liberating moment where you could like a band, like, foundation and tires draw at the same time. Um, and-- I mean, I have a lot of rules for themselves, like, I gotta say. But this is what we're talking about happens, like, over and over again.

Like, it doesn't get passed down. It stops. The elders do not teach anything else again. It's like, it's like, yeah. Yeah.

But, um, yeah, it was cool. It was just, like, such an awesome way to see this band. They were, they were so, like, um, weird. Like, the delivery of, um, Adam, who would go on to leave.

If you always remind me of, uh, what's the space from the modern lovers?

Jonathan. Yeah. Jonathan. Uh, and, uh, it was, like, right off the battles. Like, this dude's got a weird voice.

Love it. Uh, and, uh, yeah. I saw, uh, I, I like the vibe that they, they, they bring a year after year with their new records.

“And I think it's a good thing to have in a good model for 21st century.”

Not a good model for masculine any good role models for masculine. Yeah. I will do 21st century also, and you know, who got already fucking no. Torrance California's finest is Joyce Manor. Oh.

Oh. It's so interesting to hear what gets reactions and what doesn't. Because, you know, we live in a bubble. Apparently I know Joyce Manor's populous. Coral bait is not in this bubble.

But, uh, I think you had to know Joyce Manor. Yeah.

Now, uh, do you always, would you say that they're self, self consciously emo?

Like, that they've asked Barry to be honest before I came here, not to name them. They dropped in the bag. Um, but I was like, do you guys consider, like, do you consider yourself, what fourth way of emo? And he was like, ha ha, yeah.

And then he actually all read it. He's, he, like, he's like, here's how I described the band. I actually kind of, it was one of, it was like basically eight different genres. I personally describe our band as emo-tinged pop punk with indie rock tends to cease. Like, I got Thanksgiving.

Yeah. When, when grandma was like, what do you do again Barry? Like, what's your job? It's kind of non-core, but also adjacent. Yeah.

I mean, I just, I'm like, I want a heart tattoo. Like, let's, are you fucking kidding me with that song? Because of that song on repeat for, like, a day. Yeah. Like, 24 hours, like, take caffeine pills.

So I don't have to sleep. So I could just keep hearing that song. It's crack. And you record, just give it up. And the new record, a shout out.

And I don't remember the name. I'm so sorry. But I heard it. It's really good. I just think they've put out consistently really good music.

Like, I feel like I met them around the time of never hungover again,

which was like, 2014. Does that sound right to you guys? Yeah. Okay.

“And they were kind of like adjacent to the burger records scene in LA.”

Or like, that's kind of how I first saw them and just shameful past over here. I was up in that burger scene. And I was like, I love this band. And then we got talking in there. Like, we're from Dorans.

And I was like, that's a Fred's forever. Man, you're bad. I just think they're really a good band. It's great. They keep advancing.

So that's it for 21st century. You surprised them. Yeah. Is the crowd surprised that my cam didn't get picked. And they gave them more notable, big, 21st century bands again.

Well, that's I think what we were kind of alluding to, right? It's just like, and I don't think these bands are in good. I know that everyone, not everyone, but people who are my cam fans would like us to read it in my cam episode. And we are planning on doing that because it's very short.

But when I went back to be like, who's that? And like, go listen to it. I was like, oh, this is good. Like, I get this. It's like, it's like theater kid punk.

Yeah. But like, golf. Like, it's, it's very good. It's just like, I didn't know about it. Like, I remember the ding, the blackberry.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Blackberry. Which, the fun fans.

And I don't know if, I'm sure I've said it on that episode. After we did that episode,

you guys never become an aging woman.

Just never do it. Like, if you can, I think actually, you should put the password for you. Because what can we bring to society with these brains that can't remember anything?

Do you think you're trying to think of my chemical romance

“trivia, so I don't think you should be too hard on yourself?”

I'm trying to think of the guy who produced that album. I love him. His name is Raw, but I just came over the last name. You guys know, Rob Cavallo. Thank you.

Rob revel. It was Rob revel. You guys don't know about his Instagram. Rob Cavallo got to produce or love him. Anyways, he's somehow caught wind that we had done

these bands. He also did the job breaker record that everyone at first hated, but now loves. Do you? Do you?

Yeah, he came up with that piano part. He told me. And I was like, yeah, he's kind of, he also discovered Maroon 5. I think he produced Duky too, right?

Didn't he? Yes, yeah. He's, I mean, he's incredible. He's kept up. But I think, I think my camera's good.

I just, it just wasn't, it was just not on my business. You know, like, dude. I had fun. Actually, it's from the head.

He'll tell us what he really thinks. I didn't really dive in. Yeah. And I just, I heard that they had toured with American nightmare. And I was like, that's cool.

And Jeff really produced their first album. The first my cam album. Oh, man. Yeah, I from Thursday. Which also Thursday for my 21st.

And I'm going to tell him right now. What am I talking to? Oh, name, name. If you were a guy to get the motorcycle story. Yeah.

Did you get Thursday? That's true. But. Oh, man. Jeff is a pinnacle of divine masculinity and passing down to the elder, or to the next generation.

“I think he would be happy that you chose.”

Tiger show. So Thursday's another band that we didn't pick. Taking back Sunday. Taking back Sunday. I don't know one note of that band's music.

I'm so sorry. I don't know if it, I'm not saying it's bad.

I just, I've never, like, I've never heard it.

Okay. This is a new track. Brand new. We don't talk about them anymore. Not going there by the.

I told. But taking back Sunday. Good. Yes. They got tunes.

Okay. I'll listen. I don't like. I have one wild impression. Like, I know.

So really, the fact that I even squeeze in as much new music as I do is I'm miracle. I got to listen to 18 ringer podcasts just to continue to be employed there. To stuff like. You have the first of spiritually emo. I'm going to do something really lame.

I'm sorry. I just couldn't think of something clever clever land. Like, like you said, like a leaf falling from the ground or unraveling sweater or whatever. I'm going to say another band. Oh, okay.

Third, I blind. I will die on this hill. Third, I blind. Self-titled is an emo album. Kevin, cut again.

Shout out of the good. At those guitar lines are very, you know, it's fucking. Why are you laughing at me? I'm all weekend, you guys. This man looked at me and just laughed with no, like, no explanation.

And I'm like, I know, I know what's, I'm funny, but that's not why he's laughing. I know it's your hilarious. It's definitely that.

It's, um, the red lines I never would have thought was emo until I met you.

And it's interesting that you love the red line and need them to also be something else. I don't need them to be anything else. I just think they are. How's it going to be? It's like a.

That's what I'm looking for. Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, the... Did you step off from the ledge?

Yeah.

Jump. Jump, jump. Yeah. A motorcycle drive by.

Have you got the God of wine?

God of wine is crouched down in my room. You let me down. I said it. It can get, it's deep in the phone here. Huh?

“You should be, you know, singing with them.”

I do feel like I should have been in a band. And unfortunately, I haven't been set up on the answer. I do sing the opening song. I'm presuming that you know. That's Bethany Cawson Gino and Jennifer Cleveland.

Bethany Cawson Gino, Jessica's Jennifer Klan of Meek and Meek Goin Bleached. I didn't know that. Yeah. I'm glad I asked publicly. Yeah.

I don't know if you noticed, but I am tone down. But I have heart. And that's what matters. You have a spiritually e-bopic. Yeah.

I am going to go with a young, 15-year-old boy crying in the bathroom stall. Let's get to a brace. It's very nice. That's me. I think that's pretty spiritually emo.

I'm glad that you were able to connect with your feelings. Yeah, probably.

“And when they went in and saw the internet.”

Thousands. But I do, I do just think. Yeah, it's a loaded. I don't know what you're writing, but I didn't make it easy for you. What are we just going to do?

No, no, for now, there for my son. I do. I just, I really do appreciate the bands that just sort of put it out on the line. And you think I just struggled with, which is like, it wasn't the get-up kids, okay?

It did feel like it was. It was the get-up kids kids. Oh, what do we all with? Oh, you mean the kids came out for their fans? They're fans.

Okay.

One of the truest things I've ever said and I'll never stop saying you can't choose your fans.

I love you guys. I got lucky. Although I will say I was a little PTSD when you said fun fact. You guys have such PTSD around fun fact. Because I'm going to tell you what the most used phrase in my DMs from people I don't know is.

Fun fact. I need to inform you about this thing. And then I'm like, is it? Is it a fun fact? Is it?

Okay, so I'm going. I just like, like, you know, it's funny how it begins. It's like, it's like a term to try and like humiliate somebody trying to be open about there are, you know, how they're feeling. And it was just kind of rejected.

And then it kind of comes back on. The thing I'm in the late 90s that just kind of bothered me is it like it became like this identity. And I sort of get it as like a means of like kind of like power this empowerment. We're going to own it. We're going to take it.

But then they just like lean into it. And it's kind of it kind of like made it seem like that. It almost made it seem like this open emotional thing is like it's separate. And I like it. It's just, it just bothered me.

And so when I, I would my time in the music scene that I was running in. I tried to really inject, you know, the with the aggression, you know, some real kind of like emotive themes and openness to it. But there was something. It felt like the emo kids of the late 90s were like drawing a line.

They were like feeling emotion is only for us, not you. Right. And so like that felt weird. But I feel like that era kind of, you know, calcified and died. Yeah.

I think it now, it's like it's, it's, I think it's, in my opinion, it's a pretty nice time for. But I think that was, that was the wave that we're talking about that.

We don't know that much about like, that was that third wave or whatever.

Where you were like, this is okay. I'm going to say something really awesome. I'm sorry. I feel like the origins of emo was very like the divine masculine, right? It was like, no, it's not what I was laughing at.

It was just, you guys saw, I'll say it again. The divine masculine, because it was this aggressive hardcore music. But then also folding into it, some emotional vulnerability,

“which is like that's what the divine masculine is.”

Right? It's still the, the most elevated parts of like archetypal masculinity, which is like strength and like protected, just shen and like a bit of force. But with like being able to also be in touch with emotions. And then by the time I got to third wave, it was like a little like,

they're like trying to trick you. Like how many women have suffered at the hands of a man in a size 26 genes with a band being here being like, I'm emo. But like, which wave has the most canceled bands? I'm going to point me from doing bad things with teenage girls.

I'm just saying it's really felt from fucking grace from what it was meant to be. And then I do feel like it's kind of picked back up in this like,

I mean, they're doing different.

Yeah, we just want to title fight tigers,

joys man are like, these bands kind of do both and like a really cool way. Then yeah, and then there's like a whole other like cohort of bands that we haven't even talked about that are like enormously popular that come after like this kind of group, the title fight, joys man are talking to each other. Fifth wave.

Yeah, yes. Twinkle daddy is. I just learned about that. That speech. Huh?

Glass beach. Glass beach. What's that? They're cool. I just learned about about an hour ago.

I have two kids in a full-time job. I like it. Sorry. It's like a fifth wave. A new passport.

And you're like, I'm just just, I'm getting glass free. It's just behind it to be known. Like incoming. That was that. I mean, the kind of is, because shout out to producer Rob,

my producer of answering Rob's under means amazing. This was his most favorite assignment to make me this like 25 page doc of all these bands.

And he was like, I've never loved my work more.

And I was like amazing. But the bands he put in this like fourth and fifth wave, I was like, dessert words. But then I listened to some of them.

“And I was like, okay, well, Chris, I can't remember the band.”

I was like a full sentence. You remember I was saying a backstage. The world is a world is a beautiful place. I no longer feel today. So good.

Yeah. Yeah. Chris Teddy recorded the, all the first three fiddle head records. Wonderful guy. Connection.

And the reason how much art E.P. So great guy. So I'm glad people are bigger. And we don't. It's just.

We just, we, we went with what we knew. Yeah. I have one last pick. Is it spiritually? It's spiritually emo.

And it is Billy Bob Thornton's halftime speech. And the Friday night lights movie. Nice. It's a good wish. Whatever I feel dead inside.

And like, I'm wondering whether or not like I've had all the experiences I can have. And this is just like one boat steering out into the ocean. I'll throw that speech on it. Like I still fucking got it. You know, I can still get the waterworks going.

And it's a good example. It's like you're watching a football movie. You're listening to like a aggressive music. You're like, I'm not supposed to feel this. Watching a football movie.

And this guy's just like, can you be perfect? And you're like, holy shit. I can't be perfect. Yeah.

“And then that's what the music comes out.”

That sounds like a sunny day real estate former band name. I think also. That's fine. It's Billy Bob Thornton's halftime speech from Friday night lights. It's beautiful.

It's really good. Not the show. And that's why CR is the world's greatest podcast. Are you guys right there? Just in the 11th hour, he pulled some shit out like this.

He had a really good one on the plane that was like going to the grocery store alone at night. That's like a damn dies. It's really fucking emo. Especially if you're listening to emo while you're at the grocery store. You should not wear headphones while you shop at the grocery store.

Well, that's anti-social behavior. But there's nobody there. This is a whole place. Is this you and how are you going to have your meet cute with the other Mary? Like I'm good.

I just want to just listen to. Final fight. Well, it's different protein bars. You know, like. We have like a little bit of time.

I think to do some some questions from the audience. We have a microphone right here. If anybody has you don't want to say it really quickly. Things that we didn't draft that would give a quick shout out to. Sure.

Go ahead. I got to say I wanted to do it, but didn't fit job breaker. Job breaker is a great job. Obviously like a little bit of debate about what genre that would be. Okay.

I think I can come from pop. Dagnastie for me also. That was a tough one for me in 90s. Goats. I really like diagnostic.

“I think I might like that one last wish record.”

Oh yeah. My better half. Yeah. I love that album. Anything.

I want to publicly apologize to Jeffrey.

I met for the first time just like five days ago.

There's there's these named after turning points song. And it's quite frankly, one of the best turning points songs ever. If you haven't heard it, give it a listen. It's a good time. I'm sorry.

Mr. Rickley. Okay. Nothing for you, Chris. You're feeling good about all. No, I mean, gray matter from the evenings, I was also a huge fan of.

I got hot take. Let's hear it. The song head by gray matter is better than end on end by rights of spring. Oh, shit. I had someone tell me that they would punch me in the face.

Was it Patrick and Lenin from? No. No. So I'm just from from DC. But you know, I say you can go ahead and punch me in the face on that.

That head is better. It's a better closer than end on end. Two bands from the nineties that I don't know are if they're emo or not. But they would get tagged with it. Sometimes one was the Van Pelt.

And the other was Antioch Aero, who were my favorite gravity band of just dudes falling on the ground. But they sometimes get called emo. And we all apologize to the effect. Before we do questions, why don't we recap our picks really quick?

Okay.

My picks were 90s others. Sunny day real estate. 90s Midwest. The get up kids. What?

80s goats. Moss icon. 21st century choice manner.

And spiritually emo third-by-blind.

First album. Specifically. What about you? Mine were rights to spring for the 80s. Captain Jazz for the 90s Midwestern.

Sam I am for the 90s. Non-Mind Western. Tigers job for the 21st century. And 15-year-old boy. Yeah.

Right. That's right.

“Specifically the song building just to be clear.”

In fact actually participatory in emo right there. Yeah. My in were. I do have to promise him first. 90s Midwest.

Jimmy World for 90s. Not Midwest. Title fight for 21st century. Scrolling big. One clap.

There he is.

He's gone in again hard for you.

He needs you to know. I'm going to be a bit more important. I'm going to be a bit more important. I'm going to be a bit more important. I'm going to be a bit more important.

I'm going to be a bit more important. I'm going to be a bit more important. I'm going to be a bit more important. I'm going to be a bit more important. I'm going to be a bit more important.

If I had to tell a co-worker, I would just stay. I'm going to teach her a lot. The physical edge teacher. I would probably say, I got to go print some papers.

I think it's very hard. That's a really interesting question. The cop machines broken. Always. You know what?

I can't use the word. You can't. I can't. I can't. I think that that kind of gets there.

Sure. But so it was other forms of music. It's hard to like, music with people wearing size small t-shirts. Yeah, small pants.

You could basically be like, it's like third eye blind at less pop.

It's like third eye blind at less pop. All right. I'm just, I can't. Thank you for your question. Thank you.

We got one more back there. You don't have to raise your hand.

“If you want to come, you can just stand behind the other person.”

That's true. We could be doing a line-up. I know that's weird. Hey, guys. Hi.

Yes, you should. Yes, I love that thing. I'm not going to lie. I washed it and dried it today specifically for that. To make it smaller.

A spies, small one not. Guys, I loved the band-splane episode on Jimmy. Thank you. I also have to give a quick shout out.

My buddy, Tom Buckley, worked with you.

Thanks. Come, come work her.

You have no idea how happy that just be.

Tom Buckley is a dear friend and shadow Tom Buckley. I love the Jimmy World episode. And I love that you guys are split and that you are a clarity fan. And you are a bleed American. To be clear, we are both fans of both albums.

Of course, of course. Of course, but we just have a different favorite. But you have a strong favorite. And I love that. I'm wondering if you were to just choose one song from those respective albums.

Oh, yeah. What would it be? Praise course. Already. I wanted to discredit praise.

Oh, then it would be me sweet.

“I think the song I listened to the most is Crush.”

Crush. Yeah. Yes. Great. Good question.

Thank you. Thank you. David Bonbon. Hey. Howdy.

When I go home to my parents for the holidays,

I get a little sick of them. There's a friend that I text. His name is Red Pill Richard because he's not a good person. But his take after one or two beers is that emo only gets good. Post 9/11.

So it's a specific. It's a strange touch. I guess you want to come on be. Yeah. It's a strange take.

And I've tried to debate him. I'm wondering if you have a specific a 2000 year record that I could throw in his face to say, This to like deflect that that take is incorrect. Is that bleed of merit? No, bleed of merit is a one.

Two thousand. Four players before 9/11. Bleed of American is before 9/11. But he's saying like specifically from 2000. Is there a braid record that comes out of 2000?

Oh, American. Ball. This is a subtitle 2000. 99. It was 2000.

So it's a rising tie. The subtitle record. Okay. Okay. You want to didn't just like 99.

“I think you would irritate him more if it's 2000.”

She does that. Okay. Oh, you know what? My dog is by ear. Hold on.

We're going to. I do. I want to know why why he's in April Richard or is it? I didn't feel like that. It's still right now.

I don't think I need to. It needs to really. Just a huge major. Damn. Kind of a rough year.

The anniversary. Yeah. Designing a nervous breakdown. Curseive. Oh, yeah.

Domestic. Comes out there. Yeah. And the Jazz June. The medicine.

Those are the three ones that were indicated in my dog. Right. Why would say Curseive out of the three? Me too. Yeah.

Thank you. You're welcome. Shoutout Red pill Richard or maybe not. Shoutout Richard.

“Have a high need to know more about him before I.”

Because I know. Hi. Guys. Thanks for coming to Boston Cambridge. It's our pleasure.

Of course. So I appreciate how you shared your forays and introductions in email. Mine was like, I love the blue album. And then I got pinkered in.

And I never heard anything like it.

Yeah. And I went to the doing comics. And I said, I need more music that sounds like this. But it made me think that like it's probably a lot of people don't associate. We serve as an emo band.

But that's absolutely an emo album. And I want to ask you guys. Do you think? What's a band that's put out like one emo record that's kind of like incongruous with like the rest of their catalog.

And I would ask. Like. I don't know who else. I don't know. Would you say Pinkerton is incongruous with blah blah.

Because it doesn't. It's not like a huge departure. It's symbiotic. I guess. Yeah.

Trying to think of it. I think there was it is. It's almost helpful that there was like a narrative around Pinkerton that it was like misunderstood or lost in some way. And that was like, it washed up on the shore.

A little bit of silence. You can put it in the shore. Damn. That's a hard question. I can't really think of.

That's a stomper dude. That's a really good question. Do you like the new fiddle head AP is a little more emo than the previous time? Yeah.

I. No. Yes. No. The bird.

The little head is a new EP coming out. Sorry. Did you ask you to just break that issue? I. I don't use that.

That was allowed to be talked about. Yeah. Yep. It's called Baby All Change. Uh, one song is, is, is, is, is, is, and then it kind of mutates to kind of some

archers and low stuff. And then the third song. The song, Baby All Change, we wrote then and there. And it just did what it did. It was a nice woman.

I don't know if it's more emo. I don't know. We don't really, we just go where go. You're right. I just followed on Dallas.

This is a good question though. Like who had like the, the emo record that just, just different, just like, "Prolge him have anything like that." Like, like, his by-tology, their emo, it's not, but it, like, it kind of, off he goes

Is a very emotional song.

Yeah. Better man. Kind of want to say something. Can you bring him a bit of a, um, that's the emo record. That was a good question.

Yeah. So good. We stopped. Yeah. That's going.

Yes. Pat. I saw you open for military gun back in November. That was. That was a short show.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I play drums in a band. We just had her, like, for a short, like, couple weeks ago.

Like, um, always looking for, like, advice just for, like, how to stay inspired, like,

as you as an artist, but also YouTube has just creators in general of, like, how do you keep the juices flowing, you know? I can definitely say, listen to bands play. Yeah. I can't tell you.

Just kidding. One thing I really like about what you guys do, is the way you speak about it, is really, you know, like, judgmental, uh, like, I, like, I shut her to think of myself as, like, an artist, but, like, you know, the way that you talk about, like, just creativity is, like, super inspiring. And I'm like, I want to keep doing this.

It's, it's, I want to be a part of just looking at nothing and putting something into the world. And I, like, that's something. So, like, very specifically, listen to bands playing, is very inspiring.

“I think surrounding yourself around people who are, you know, just, who don't, are completely”

fucking uninterested in, like, getting famous and shit like that. And are more interested in, like, getting together and just kind of, you know, just creating something that that's been, you know, some for me is a lot of joy to my life. And I encourage everybody to do it. And also to take super amounts of joy playing to fucking zero people.

I saw this footage of Fontaine's DC playing to fucking nobody. And it was so, like, there was a song, it was a great song, like, Lucy Lewis. It's just a clip of it.

It's like an amazing song.

And they're playing in, like, an actual, like, a shitty pub, but no one's being attention to them. And you can just sort of tell that they don't give a shit. And that has worked out quite well for this, those Irish boys. And, like, that, but I don't think that that was really the big intention of them.

I could be wrong. Like, I just think it's just, it's good to just sort of create music. And that's, that's it. Yeah. I'm up.

You know, me goes here. What's up? You know, me go? Yeah. I would say, my therapist always says, which I really love,

is that you always need cycles of input to have cycles of output.

“So if you're feeling uninspired and you can't do anything like you need to be nourishing”

yourself with art and other music and go to the museum, go in the nature. Like, you gotta get inspiration. You can't just, like, keep grinding.

And also, the artist's way is amazing if you've never done it.

I love, I still be doing those fucking morning pages every morning bitch. What is that? Is that like, darling? You don't know what the artist's way? Julia Cameron, former wife of Martin Scorsese.

I know that about that. You guys, you know about the artist's way? Okay, the artist's way is a book, and it's so great, and I actually didn't record it. But it's like, it's almost like a guide book of like, how if you want to be an artist, it's like a thing that you go through for like, I don't know how long like a month or whatever.

And you do these like certain things. But one of the things that, like, it's enduring afterwards is like every morning, you write three pages freehand. Just never look at it again off the top. There's always other things in it that you do like artists dates with yourself.

It's just really cool to remind yourself of like what it means to be an artist. And it's okay to call yourself an artist and how that is to be in the world as an artist. I really recommend it. That's great advice. Thank you.

This kind of like, wrote, but like I do actually really subscribe to the idea of making the thing or trying to make the thing that you would want to enjoy. So to the extent that you're like technically able to do so, like I can't play drums. So I wouldn't be able to drum like that, but whatever I do something, I try to think about like what would I actually want to read or listen to.

But I don't want to tell you the podcast going to be an hour long. You know what I mean? Do your own thing. Next question. Hi, everyone.

Such a huge fan. I really, in the spirit of your vulnerability and telling your story about being in the, you know, the bathroom stall, weeping openly.

“What is the most emo experience that you have had at a live music event?”

I know I have definitely wept openly, you know seeing the cure two years ago. That was just like mind blowing. So it bonus points if it's an emo band, but emo exacerbating it. Because it's like not specifically like just having your mind blown, but having your mind blown in a particularly emo way, right?

I think so. Like countless ones at like smaller shows. Like, like, you just goes on and on. One time, like, like, it was very nice. I was just, you know, regular common human to press.

I remember at the end of the set, this kid came up to me and goes,

I don't know why he did it. Maybe he just sends that was bombed out or something like that. And he just, like, he just got me on the back and he just said, "You are loved." I was like, "Well, that's super nice."

And I was like a really small show.

And I tended like never go to big shows ever.

One of my friends though, he took me to see the skeleton tree documentary by the cave thing. It was like very intense. And then he dragged me to the Barclays Center in New York to go see him play.

And I was like, "I don't want to go to a fucking auditorium." And I went and I liked Nick Cave. And I loved the skeleton tree. It really kind of connected me. But I remember seeing him play Jubilee Street.

Yeah. I was like, I'm really fucking blown away and transcended. And it was actually at that moment I was like, I really want my old band have heart to play a show again. Oh, that's awesome.

It was just so moved by how a transformative music can be in an exact moment, like live moment. It was super cathartic.

“I think that, like, for me, it's about catharsis.”

Yeah. And not so much, just like, you know, an emotional support. It's just like, have you, is something that you've been on your mind that you just sort of kind of figured out. So those are, those are, that's probably the one that stands out

in my mind. It's just watching Jubilee Street. Okay, about fun. Amazing guest. I'm proud of myself asking you.

The other's fun. Chris? Uh, I'll go off the kind of similar to what a story path has. Like, I saw neutral milk hotel downstairs in the Middle East when they were touring for aeroplane.

And they didn't give a fuck. Like, they looked like freaks. They were playing saws. And they were, like, kind of, trumpet player. Spiritual email.

But, Spiritual email. And also was like, one of those, like, five, ten times in a live show where you're like, I've just completely left my body. And, um, I just, it was just, like, one of those things

where I was like, I'm never going to forget

this for the rest of my life. In a very specific emotional way. So I guess that's it. Can I add one more? Yes.

Does anyone listen to Mira? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

“My wife introduced me to her long time ago,”

and we were broken up for a long time. And I went to go see her at the Brighton Music Hall. And I just, I was, I just, it was a very emotional time. Just watching her. It was like, we weren't together.

We were together in high school and stuff like that. That was like a very emo moment. But she's not really emo. But nonetheless, though, she played Cocoa Water. And I was like, oh, my god.

This is unbelievable. Yeah. That was, that one stands out. I'm sorry. I had to get that out.

I love that. Why is that guy? The other one's that song. Check it out. Top that.

Yeah. I mean, I have a good one and you're involved in it. It'll be my third one. And I will top that. But first, I cried every, almost every.

I'm not gonna lie to you guys. I'm very moved by music. Two ones I remember really well. Pavements. First reunion.

2010. Hey, I was there. It worked. No Hollywood bowl. Okay.

Yeah. I was at Berkeley. I was with my sister. Hell yeah. I thought, I, they were like a band.

I was obsessed with.

“And thought I was never going to get to see play again.”

And I just was crying. I was just, I was like, summer babe came on. I was like, I'm so happy. And then another time with Dave Matthews Banner was on a bit of mushrooms. And I felt I connected with God.

But the last one was in, was it February, Chris of last year? Me and Chris went to see Cameron Winter. Yep. At the Barnes Hall Arts Center.

I didn't bring my tiny violin with me. You guys, I'm really sorry. It was like me or weeks after my house turned down. So that was fun. And I was just like, I'd been listening to the album a lot.

It was like my emotional support album after the fire. And I was just there with my buddy like in this beautiful space. It was beautiful music. And I was just so happy to be. I'm going to cry.

I'm so happy to be alive. I was like, I don't care that my house burned down. Like life is really beautiful.

You know, like, I had to be here and like see this incredible music.

And just like it was really, it was really moving for me. So yeah, I did top that. How do you feel? For God's time for one last question. Good night.

Honored. To be the last question. And nervous, apparently. So I'm hoping that I can, all right. So I'm not going to, I don't want to get tomatoes thrown at me.

But I'm not an email kid. I was more of like a grunge kid during my last year. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I do love life.

Yeah. I'm hoping that I can describe a spiritually email experience I had recently.

For you to match me with an email recommendation to set me off on my journey.

Okay. So my spiritually email experience recently was coming into the new year.

Google searching my ex for the first time since we broke up five years ago.

Do that. And bleaching my eyebrows and looking at myself in the mirror while listening to the Jeff Buckley episode of bands playing. That's what can go on. Are you okay?

I am okay. Against all odds. Okay. Match that energy. Googleing the ex in the January.

Can I add? I found out that he is now a pastor.

“Damn, honestly, that is kind of the best case scenario.”

But that very God. He married God. He did tell me he was a born again Christian, so that we could stop sleeping together. And then I found out he was cheating on me the whole time. So he likes email music.

I promise you. That guy loves brand new. Okay. What match do you have something? I got one.

When I was in the fifth grade, I dated, I dated it's going for two years, which is a great idea. It's a fifth grade to seven grade. That's real. After six months of dating in fifth grade.

Did I not say a wife guy? That's like such early wife guy behavior. Rookie of the year like that. After six months of dating in the fifth grade, she came out to me at

recess and said, "How come you've never talked to me before?"

And I said, "Oh, do you want me to be talking?" She was like, "Yeah." And I gave up sports and we just would, for recess for a year and a half. We would just walk around and learn to talk. We would talk about music.

I remember when Razor Blade's suitcase came out. You were like, "Cal, yeah." You were like, "What do you think about, you know?" "Swallows." There's a straight no chaser.

We were like, "It's so depressing. We love it." Anyway. And it was so was like my first love. And she dumped me.

But two years. Over the phone while High and Dry was playing. Oh. Yeah. Pretty sure my whole entire family was listening to it.

“I think you misunderstood the assignment that I do love that story.”

It was just an action. No, she wanted a recommendation of music. It's just that. I was like, "I made a lot that you misunderstood."

Because that's an incredible piece of information that I don't know about.

That is really insane. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah.

This might just be, and tell me I'm off base. And I don't want to encourage further of this behavior. No, I'm fine. Okay. I recently listened to American Football for three weeks straight or whatever,

because I had to for my job. And it felt like that. Okay. Like it felt like I was, like, just a telephone ambulance. Need to go hospital.

Right now, please. But it is really good music. Okay. I just don't listen to it. There's three weeks straight.

This band came up briefly. It's not actually literally emo, but it's a great breakup record. If that's maybe what you're looking for. I just don't know what I'm looking for. Yeah.

I've foolished by super chunk. Yeah. Really good. I break up record, sorry. Not an emo band.

Again, both of you, not reading comprehension. It's amazing. It's amazing. Thank you. Thank you.

You guys, thank you so much for coming out in the freezing colds. This was wonderful. Thank you guys for all of us. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Christopher Ryan. Thank you. And Chobie's Boston. I love you so much.

I'll thank you for ever. And come back next week for a new episode. We'll be at the Coolidge tomorrow, showing repo, man. I believe it's at 9/30. Yeah, I think doors are at 9/30.

And the show's at 9/30. If you guys-- And we'll be hanging out at Coolidge a little bit before then. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

We didn't do the winner.

“Who do you guys think won if you think it was me, clap?”

Thank you. If you think it was Pat, wait, clap. That was pretty good. If you think it was Yasi, clap. It was Yasi, clap.

This is every Yasi live show that Yasi wins. Thank you guys. I feel like it's a little unfair, but I'll take it. Thank you so much. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes

of BandSplain. Our guests today were Chris Ryan and Patrick Flynn. This episode was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales. Executive producers for BandSplain are Gina Dalback and me, Yasi Saltic.

Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Costantino and Jennifer Klavin, and graciously recorded by Carlos Delagarza and Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer Emeritus, producer Dylan,

Aka Dylan Tupper Rupert,

and also Sean Fennessey, Elizabeth Fierman,

“Anne and Chovie's bar in Boston, Massachusetts.”

Come back every Thursday for a new episode

of BandSplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. (upbeat music)

Transcript

[MUSIC]

Well, not everybody here read Kurt Vonnegut.

That's why, this is a compliment to when you're making direct eye contact you.

At it from the outside, but knowing that I probably should be on the inside, ...

We just need one name to go to decide which the order is, so why don't you gu...

To my year now, like, I can't believe I listened to Sunny Day amongst, like, ...

You're going to say, how much promise are you going to sing while I write thi...

Yeah.

It wasn't like, it wasn't like, it wasn't like on MTV.

This is not really my jam.

Is there, like, a lot of Sam I am, Laura, that you can accrue that you can as...

Uh, I, I saw them when they were, like, in middle school fifth or six

Yes.

Like, I feel like I met them around the time of never hungover again,

Yeah.

I mean, they're doing different.

Okay.

My buddy, Tom Buckley, worked with you.

Is a very emotional song.

I remember at the end of the set, this kid came up to me and goes,

For you to match me with an email recommendation to set me off on my journey.

Aka Dylan Tupper Rupert,

Compare and Explore

More Transcripts You Might Like

No War Is Illegal (When They All Are) [TEASER]

Sonu Sood on Humanity, Love & the Future of Technology | A Deep Conversation with Shekhar Natarajan

Learning Resources Inc. v. Trump

Immigration Law in 2026: Fighting the Cruelty Machine

Why AI Needs Ethics First | Nekia Nichelle & Shekhar Natarajan | Live at CES 2026

AI Needs Intention, Not Fear | will.i.am on Leadership, Creativity & the Future of Artificial Intelligence