481| They Always Have Ranches

This is Jim Glanty, retired FBI profile of former New York State of Perusuke to write a

producer of Criminal Minds and Bluebeard on Audible, and with me today is... More in O'Connell, 25-year veteran of the FBI retired in 2016, and I've been run in my own company ever since doing security solutions. Awesome. Well, we're in today, we're going to talk about a little bit more about about a topic that we've talked about before, and that is Epstein, and his ranch,

which he called the Zoro Ranch, and I wonder, wonder why, why he used Zoro. Zoro was a

masked man, right? And leading a double life, maybe that was a metaphor for him, but he had

“he built a 26,700 square foot mansion there, and he had, like, how many thousand acres?”

Let me just see, it was thousands of acres, and his nearest neighbors were miles away. So he had all the seclusion, he could use, or he needed, and unfortunately he was able to because of the circles he ran in, because of the money he threw around, because of the lies he told

he was able to basically draw in girls and young women, who he then exploited, along with

Glenn Maxwell. This isn't the first case that I've dealt into one that I actually worked to sit right after I retired with this young woman who was trafficked through a cult in Mexico, and they ended up going out to the desert at some big ranch. And it's like, what's with all the

“ranch is, but you're right, the isolation. I mean, they're isolated, you can't hear the screams,”

everyone knows as you're driving up, when you drive through the desert, you can see, if I need a nubber or any other means of egress, it's going to be really, really challenging. Right, and the thing is that it also just think about the fact on the psyche of the victims, they know, they're isolated, they know there's no way to get away. They know that if they piss off the guy, that he could do anything to them and they're completely helpless, they don't have any recourse.

Like you said, nobody's going to hear any screams from miles away, and then just the sheer number of, well, the buildings and the size of the main house, you know, you get swallowed up,

“and there, you know, this is, let's go into it, I guess. So, what do you used to do was meet these”

girls, probably a lot of them through Glenn Maxwell, and then find out what they need in life, a college scholarship, music lessons, a job, you know, I identify their vulnerabilities, yeah, parents, yeah, they don't have parents, they're homeless, whatever they are, he figures it out, all right, I'm going to dangle this carrot in front of this one, and that carrot in front of the other one, whatever their vulnerabilities are, like you said, so it's a, it's a kind of, well,

it's just another level of deceit and manipulation that gets these girls out to this ranch in the middle of nowhere, and then a whole bunch of them have talked about how, you know, it started all fall innocent and, you know, he acted like a philanthropist, he acted like a mentor, and he said, you can come out here and relax and write ATVs, do whatever you want, and make champagne to coke, yeah, and, and, you know, it starts out that way, and then things change, and the way it changes

is different for every person, but generally he'll either, you know, take them to dinner, take them to a movie, start rubbing on their thighs, you know, holding their hand, asking them for a massage or demanding it, and, or giving them a massage or a galen, giving them a massage, and which they're sexually violated, it's just, it's an insidious pattern of behavior,

together a 50 plus page, after David, when they had 60 victims who were credible, and all the

“gave statements against him, he was able to worm his way out of it, and I've never heard an official”

story about why, but my feeling is he pulled the national security card, and he either, either claim to at that time, or actually did have compromising videos and messages and information about heads of states, people in power, that the US government wanted to exploit, so they gave him a sweetheart deal, let him get a slap on the wrist, some kind of half-assed home detention. Yeah, we could stay at home, it was just ridiculous. And then, yeah, and then he went on to

molest and abuse and rape, multiple other young girls and young women, you know, unimpeded, he just felt like he was bulletproof at that point, and that's, that's horrific, and the fact that that the US government, that somebody in the US government, not the whole US government, I'm sure that the United States Attorney's Office, in general, the people that worked there and the people in the FBI, who did the investigation, were incensed when they found out that he wasn't going anywhere,

that he got to basically stay home and continue doing what he'd been doing, and so that

that kind of disgusting result means that somebody in the government, somebody decided, well,

“it's more important that we get this information and we're able to use it against people. We want to”

then it is to actually give these young ladies and girls any justice. And the craziest part of all is after that investigation in Florida, people still hung out with him all the time. I mean, well, Woody Allen, no surprise there. No surprise there. God only knows if we could have ever done a thorough investigation on Woody Allen what we'd come up with. But he's one of those guys that I used to say to some of my partners

in the Bureau when we'd leave some sleazy, slimy guys place for some white collar fence or whatever it was. I would say, dude, how'd you like to see that guy's web browser from four o'clock in the morning on the weekends? It's just gross. You could just get that gross feeling. I actually know somebody who was told to have lunch with Epstein way back at the beginning before, way before any of this. And they said he's got a lot of money and this person I know is in the money business and

he said he met with him and Epstein kept trying to change the subject to to poke and prod to see what he liked, what is. And he's like, this is a business meeting. What are you doing? You know, and he said this is M.O. Right. He did that for, you know, the former Prince in England. He did that for everybody. All the heads of states that he talked to, all the heads of companies,

“all the people that had any kind of power. That's what he did. But he said he wasn't even subtle about”

it really. Just I mean, it was vague, but it wasn't. I mean, you could read between the lines and then he said, I want to know how you make your money. He said, if I'm going to get involved, if we're going to have a business relationship, I need to know how you're making your money and his explanation

was so lame. My friend never, ever even returned to phone call from a man, then it just died on

the vine. But you know, so well, he got the apartment in New York, you know, on Wexman. Yeah. Yeah. Wexman, almost certainly by extorting it from him, you don't give away a $10 million apartment, which then became a $100 million, probably. Unless he was providing it with everything he wanted without Wexman having to do anything up for it. Yeah, I think he, I don't know. He extorted him. I think he got, you know, got him in compromising positions

and it became a fucking physics teacher at a very exclusive high school without having any training

“without, but it gave him access to the victims there. It's end. Well, education as we've seen”

over the last couple of years can be bought and sold in a minute. I mean, when you look at the KCFBI had against a leading university because of the research they were doing and being paid for being paid by China. I mean, you know, this situation, other situations, it's, it's not good. Money is, money is a big bully and it can, it can bold people over very easily. But, you know,

what's really sad is that, you know, some of these victims, you know, they're so distraught

and so despondent over the fact that they got no justice, that, you know, one or more of them have taken their own lives and that's just terrible. You know, when you think about the cost, that that our governments decision to not prosecute him to give him a slap on the wrist, that the cost of that is just, in human terms, it's just horrific. It's, it's terrible. I feel, I feel like there's no, there's no justification for that. No matter how much he may have

helped certain people do certain things in, you know, I couldn't agree on more. Who cares, dude. Here's the rule. You cross that line. You're going down. We'll find someone else to do what you do

“because you're not that important. Well, I mean, just on that same subject, a friend of mine,”

who's a retired, very close friend of mine, I was this training agent in the bureau. He went on to a small town and upstate New York and then became chief of police at a, at one of the Sunni campuses and one of the professors got on a podcast and was just renting about how he doesn't understand why there are age of consent laws and he thinks that's all bullshit that adult child sex is fine and we're just being sold a bill of goods and, you know, he went on, he didn't just say

adult child sex with teenagers. He went on to say he didn't say any problems with adult child sex, all way down to one year of age. And yeah, and he said this, let me just outrageousness and then he bragged about him teaching this to his students for years. So, you know, it's just people think that they can, that it's okay, that it's okay to do whatever. Why can't we charge a four-year-old with murder, in fact, if he does something stupid, but also he was arguing that look, you know,

I don't know understand these laws, you know, protecting kids, come on, we coerced kids, we force kids to do so many things. Eat your vegetables, go to school, go to church.

“If we force them to do that, why can't we force them to do something else?”

I mean, like I do, he's not even trying to argue consent. What he's saying is it's okay to force

kids because we're more powerful, which is exactly why it's illegal. Exactly.

Well, what happened to him? Has anything come out on that? I mean, if the guy went on a podcast and said that, do you have the podcast? We should start pushing it out to get him in trouble. Yeah. Well, let's do it. Okay. Let's do an episode on it. I know that he's, uh, he's suing the school for putting him off campus. Yeah. Well, he should be in a box six feet under. I mean, you know, depending on what he's actually done in his life, what a pig. What an absolute

pig. If you're not, if you're not a person that really cares about the health, safety and welfare of little children and other vulnerable members of the community, like really old people, I don't know what you're doing here. You know, I mean, if we can't help those two groups of people,

attracted to kids doesn't give a damn about how it affects the child, if they act on it. And,

“you know, so many of them say, oh, I would never hurt a child. It's all love. Yeah, because they're”

saying it's love. And well, that's a Scarbage. It's bullshit. And we need to call it what it is. You and I both know that there are many, many, many, far too many victims of childhood sexual abuse, who are broken. And I mean, broken in a way, I'm not sure we can fix them. And I mean, they can't be people like to give people hope, you know, I like to give people hope, too. But I'm saying, if you don't have the wear with all, if you don't have some support, it's just resources,

or resources, it's an uphill battle. And for people to say that that doesn't happen to children,

that when you perpetrate these type of crimes on children, that you're not breaking them, okay, they may be, you know, you may be able to get them back together. And there are plenty of just wonderful success stories in that area. But anyone that thinks that that is not true and hasn't seen it needs to get out there and talk to some of these victims, you know, because it's just absolutely despicable. What the pain that they go through, why? And you know, why? I mean, even these,

there's even childhood, even sex offenders that murder children in the active sex are afterwards,

“they honestly believe that them getting off once is worth the life of a child,”

right. And the happiness of everyone around them. Right. That is the level of their

suffering. The property. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Well, we're in speaking of depravity. We got to talk about the Alexander Brothers. So this is a trial in New York. Three brothers, three very wealthy brothers, two of which were like leading real estate brokers in New York. And I'm going to tell their names because everybody needs to hear it or an Alexander, tell Alexander and Elon Alexander. They're in their late 30s. They all pleaded not guilty, but were

convicted of sex trafficking and rape. And what they did, because they had lots of money,

“is they threw these parties and they lowered women and girls to these parties and they drug them”

and they raped them. And it's, you know, it's shades of diddy, it shades of abstine, it's shade of archery and Bill Cosby. I mean, it's all horrible stuff. And these guys, three brothers, they would do it. They would gang rape these girls, they would do this over and over and over again. And they filmed it. They just thought it was, it was their right because they were wealthy. It's just horrible. And you know, we're because they were, or because they were assholes.

I don't know, there's things. Well, it's not like they woke up and said, I'm wealthy. I can do whatever I want. I mean, they just got away with to draw these women and girls in. Yes. And, you know, if they were poor, poor guys on the street, they wouldn't have the access. But it's just so pisses me off that, that this kind of horrible thing can happen over and over and over again. And not be stopped. One of the biggest issues is that it's so hard to get people to come forward

and disclose that they were raped. And then to prosecute successfully. I mean, it's literally less than 7% of the cases are even reported. And then only 1% are actually successfully prosecuted. That's horrible. That's just disgusting. And it shouldn't be happening. But because it happens, people are less likely to come forward and offenders are more likely to just be able to get away with it. Yeah, because if they reach out, if these women who are victimized, who are raped,

reach out to their friends or family or anyone, a lot of people are going to say to them, all you're going to do is come out on record, describe everything that happened to you, and nothing is probably going to happen to these guys. It's a loose loose. I mean, just let's just try to

at least I don't, I don't, I don't think so, but I don't really know. But like when I was young

with my friends and we would go to concerts in Chicago and in other places, there would be guys that worked for the band that would go around and they would just pick up, you know, girls in the crowd and bring them to the back. So I was there one time with my friend Kathy and then this other guy and who was just a friend of guy from the neighborhood and they invited us to go backstage for a great big band with a great big album. So we go back there and I was studying music at the

time and I was really amazed by how great they sounded live because everyone said they're going to stink live. It's it's back then, you know, everyone's like, oh, it's just it's a studio band. You get them on stage. It's going to be terrible. Well, we go back there. We go to walk back and they

“tell the guy with us, you can't come back. It's girls only. And I was like, what do you mean?”

It's girls only. And he said, only girls, the band says it's only girls that can go back. So I said to my friend, the guy, I was like, you wait here. We will not be long. And if we are long, you know, sound the alarm. You're way in there. Yeah. So I said to then my friend I was with Kathy, I said, we do not separate no matter what. So we go back there. They had a big pile of cocaine on the table. I was a teenager. And I think she was like 15. So I want to say I was like 17, maybe.

And but I was street smart. I was very street smart as you can imagine. So we get in there. They got a whole pile of cocaine. And the guys are like, oh, you want to do a few lines. And I'm like, not we're good. We're just here to talk about the music. I can't believe that I started going into all the stuff about the thing. And they're like, you really just want to talk about music. You guys want some champagne or whatever. I said, no, man, we're good. We got a long drive ahead of us.

And so I just talked for a few minutes and let them know that we're not done with any that leave that door open. I mean, if I wasn't so street smart to this day, I shutter to think what would have happened. So it's it's it's a multi-pronged attack, essentially, um, um, young women everywhere. I have many friends that asked me to sit down with their daughters before they go away to college. And one of the

“main things I tell them, which people are people say, you know, you should be able to wear whatever”

you want and drink whatever you want. And you know, you should be able to get it wasted this world. But, but why? Why take that chance? And I tell them, you cannot get that hammered guys just keep it to a to a level and don't pour yourself, have dressed into the back of an Uber with some creepy dude. Right. And non-creepy, you know, I wrote an episode of criminal mines called

target rich about the first several months of college for young women. It's first time there,

away from home on supervisors, a lot of drinking, there's a lot of drugs. And unfortunately, it draws offenders out of the woodwork. And basically, they know that these girls are going to be more vulnerable. And, you know, so I'm going to be out jogging somewhere, walking late at night. Some are just going to be, you know, alone in their off campus apartments. And unfortunately, these guys literally, like, salivate over that time of year. Because, you know, maybe in six

months or a year, they're going to be a lot more sophisticated and a lot less vulnerable. But right there in the beginning of school, that's when, that's when a lot of violence and, and, and rates

“occur. And they, and the schools don't report them. No. To the police department, that's why”

universities have university police departments. In my opinion, half the time is because a regular police department wouldn't care who the hell you were. And, you know, whether or not you were, you know, a star on the football team or whatever, you're going down. So I tell, I tell all the young women that go off to college. You have to be so careful, especially, I say the whole first year. But I, I'm a person who was relatively cautious my whole young life.

You can't, you can't trust anyone by yourself. And the other thing is, if one of your friends really needs help, and, and you guys are all hammered, we've all seen situations where that goes so far south. There's no coming back from it for the poor people. Let's just keep our heads about us and, and just try to, you know, try to stand tall and have fun, but you're not together. Right.

It's always, always travel and go out in groups. And like you said, no separation for any reason.

that's really good advice. More, thank you so much. And thank you for talking to me about these cases.

Hopefully, people out there listening, and we can help prevent this kind of thing from happening

“in the future. Well, these three guys getting convicted, I think, is a big boost towards that”

chance. I think so too. I mean, with these three guys, can get convicted. Lots of people can get

convicted. Yeah. All right. Well, till next time, this is the best case worst case. Signing off. All right.

“A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't”

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