This isn't "I Heart Podcast.
Guarantee Human.
I'm Laurie Siegel, and on my new podcast, Mostly Human,
I'll take you to some wild corners of the tech world. I'm about to go on a date with an AI companion at a real world cafe right here in New York City. There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you.
Mostly human is your playbook for how tech can work for you. Anyone can now be an entrepreneur, anyone can build an app, and it's very empowering. Listen, a mostly human on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
In 2023, Bachelors Star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.
“You doctor this particular test twice in selling stretch?”
I doctor the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Regulaspiante, Michael Manchini.
My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scott Snail police.
As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Marshmatton is a zeer, and if you're trying to keep up with everything happening on and off the court, we've got you covered on the podcast, Blake Grant, and Funny.
You want to start with the first question from the big kid in coach of the year? Oh, what do you like to get? You're a Spartan. You're a Spartan.
Is that what I'm saying? Exactly.
“On flagrant and funny, we're giving our unfiltered takes”
on the biggest moments, the conversations, everyone's having, so whether you're bracket is busted, or you just want the latest on the tournament. We got you. Listen to flagrant and funny.
The Carrie champion in Jamal Hill, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding a partner of I Heart Climbing Sport. [MUSIC PLAYING] This is one of the most dramatic events
that really ever happened in New York City, politics. A screen get down, get down, those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex.
Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone, Andrea here. I have some exciting news to share.
ABC has turned betrayal weekly into an eight episode anthology, which means each episode features one of your favorite betrayal weekly stories. You'll get to see the people involved.
Here from people who have never spoken before,
and actually see where the story took place. We are so proud and excited to share it with you all. It's called betrayal secrets and lies. And it premieres this Sunday, March 29th, at 10 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, 9 p.m. central.
Please check it out. There is a corner of the criminal justice system that you won't find uncort documents. It doesn't involve judges, prosecutors, juries. It doesn't even involve laws really.
It's called prison consulting. You might have heard about it on the news. Harvey Weinstein is preparing for prison. He recently hired a consultant who is helping guide him on what to expect.
Bernie made off his hired a prison consultant. After slurre Loughlin has reportedly hired a prison consultant. Luigi Manjoni, more of the story, NFL player Michael Vickis hired a prison consultant.
“Will his new prison consultant tip the scales in his case?”
Prison consultants assist people who are facing time. Many of these consultants promote their services on YouTube and TikTok. Have you been and done? Are you thinking of me and done it?
You need someone who speaks inmates and institution. So if you or a loved one has been recently arrested, you can go ahead and text me. I'll be happy to help you in any way I can. For the right price, prison consultants will advise those facing time
on how to get a lesser sentence or how to get out of jail early. They'll tell you what programs to join and what gangs to avoid. Many of these consultants have served time themselves, often for financial crimes or nonviolent offenses. But what if the person giving out that advice was a convicted rapist?
What if they were someone like Mike Levin Good? I'm Andre Gunning and this is Betrayal Season 5. Episode 9, Rehabilitation.
For Saskia, this crime didn't just take an emotional toll.
It devastated her financially, especially when it came to paying for her divorce.
I'd always learned you'd never touch your 401k,
like you always need three months of bills in the bank just in case of a rainy day, and I'd always live by that. And I had to kind of throw that out the window to fight this.
“I remember the first withdrawal I made was for $60,000,”
and that was just for attorney's bills up to that point. In the end, the divorce cost her about $100,000. It's a financial hole she's still crawling out of. All of this got us thinking about Mike's financial status, how he's doing today after this crime.
So we did some digging, and what we found surprised us. By early 2021, Mike had served his sentence. He was released from jail and put on probation. One of the many standard conditions of probation is getting a job.
And for Mike, that wouldn't be easy.
Not only because of his conviction, but because of his resume. He was very smart. He had a master's degree. He was working as Vice President of Marketing for Bank of America. So I mean, he made a good salary.
It was more than a good salary.
“Before his conviction, he was making between $250,000 a year.”
He was an executive and a good one. If you look at his LinkedIn recommendations, he was well-liked and respected. One recommendation reads. He's not only a tremendous professional.
He's also a person of integrity, kindness, and old school values. While another says, Mike is a top-notch professional, and a pleasure to work with. Even during his sentence in hearing, an after-pleading guilty to second degree rape,
a former colleague showed up to defend him. As long as I've known Mike,
he's really always been an outstanding character
of people grow, mentor, and providing kindness, and they do put well towards people. Nice with the gentle soul.
“It's one of the hardest things to wrap your head around.”
The fact that someone can commit a disturbing personal crime, and people will still line up to call them kind and gentle. Most sex offenders struggle to find any work after they get out. When they do, it's usually construction, waste management, or warehouse gigs, but Mike had a plan.
In fact, he had it before he went to jail. During his sentence in hearing back in 2019, his lawyer shared that plan with the judge. He has started an LLC so that he can provide consulting to businesses using the information and knowledge
that he had from his career, and hopefully not let the record be an impediment to some company's hiring him, because he can use the LLC. He'd use his expertise in banking and marketing to support himself financially, and by running that business through an LLC,
his clients could work with him without the bad PR. Then, in February of 2021, Mike got out of jail. In a month later, he filed a trade-name application for a new company. But this company wasn't a business consulting firm. It was Smith and Good Associates.
According to their legal business filing, Smith and Good is a consulting firm for individuals in the criminal justice system, which is just another way of saying prison consultants. We wanted to learn what this industry was all about. So we called up an expert.
My name is John Fuller. I started my prison consulting business in 2004. Like a lot of prison consultants, John has a criminal past. That was since the 10 years for conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute.
He did time for drug and for jewelry charges. But since prison, John's built quite the career for himself. I worked primarily with white collar criminals, professional athletes, entertainers, mostly high profile individuals.
Multiple outlets say he coached Martha Stewart when she was heading to prison. He didn't comment on that, but no matter the client, his job is essentially the same. I prepare my clients on things that they should do before incarceration, ways they should behave, during incarceration.
And any assistance or the reality of their circumstances,
Post incarceration.
Every prison consultant offers different services.
“Some explain sentencing guidelines or strategize”
on getting their clients lesser sentences. They facilitate mock trials and, in some cases, assist in writing remorse letters to victims. Others focus on eliminating the unknowns of prison. What the food, the beds, the fellow inmates might be like.
And they also explain those unknowns to family members who are scared for their loved one.
But John is the first to admit, there are a lot of unethical people in his industry.
What 90% of these other prison consultants are doing, they'll make promises and tell you that they can save your life.
“In our reporting, we spoke to several prison consultants.”
Every one of them had something to say about the others. But John brought up a lot of interesting examples of how other consultants will say they can gain the system to their client's advantage, for instance. They'll lie in charge of $15,000 20,000 and tell you, as soon as you get to the prison,
they can get them in a residential drug and alcohol program.
You might be wondering, why would anyone who doesn't use drugs or alcohol pay $20,000 for addiction treatment? Well, John says it can be part of a larger strategy. Because if you can get into the residential drug and alcohol program, you can get 18 months to three years off your sentence. So of course, they're going to go that route. And this wise guy of a prison consultant says, we're going to lie and you're going to tell
your probation officer that you do use drugs. You do use alcohol as a matter of fact, go report
“next week with the smell of alcohol on your breath. And that's what's going to qualify you”
for the residential drug and alcohol program. A few years ago, a prison consultant pled guilty to conspiring to defraud the federal bureau of prisons for running that exact scam. But John says, that's not the only scam people in his industry are operating. These prison consultants are literally stealing money from people saying, you're not going to do any time. But if you don't pay me this $10,15,20, $25,000 within the next 36 hours,
I can't help you. And the client is so scared that he's going to do it. Mike declined our request for comment. So we don't know how much smith and good charges or the specific strategies they use. But on their website, they do advertise a wide variety of services. They support clients in mitigating their sentences and prepping for their time behind bars. They also provide guidance on parole hearings and sex offender registry requirements.
But there's one line that stands out to me on the smith in good homepage. I had my producer tray read it. We emphasize the importance of rehabilitation. How to do this safely at the Department of Corrections and what loved ones can do to support rehabilitative efforts. It all starts with a plan. It's not for us to say whether Mike was rehabilitated while behind bars. But we can say that Mike had a plan for himself.
Very soon after Mike got out of jail, he had a business name, address, and tax ID number. And on top of that, he found himself a business partner. His associate is a former army ranger with a criminal past of his own. But unlike Mike, he wasn't a sex offender. He was charged with murder. And when questioned by detectives, his story changed three times. I'm Lori Siegel, a longtime tech journalist, and consider my new podcast mostly human,
your bridge to the future. Anyone can now be an entrepreneur, anyone can build an app, and it's very empowering. Each week, I'll speak to the people building that future, and we're going to break down what all of this innovation actually means for you. What I come to realize is that when people think that they're dating these AI companion, they're actually dating the companies that create this. We're experiencing one of the greatest tech
accelerations in human history. And let's be honest, that can be messy. There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you. But it's my belief that we should all benefit
From this moment.
The reason I say agency is because, like, if you can give power back to people,
“then I think that's part of the best thing we can do for your mental health.”
Listen to mostly human on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. From iHeart Podcasts, and best case studios, this is Worshack, Murder at City Hall. July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons. And in less than 30 minutes,
both of them will be dead. Everybody in the chambers of dogs, a shocking public murder. A scream, get down, get down. Those are shots. Those are shots, get down. A charismatic politician. You know, he just bent the rules all the time.
“I still have a weapon, and I could shoot you. And an outsider with a secret.”
He alleged he was a victim of flat-down. That may have been not have been political, that may have been about six. Listen to Worshack, Murder at City Hall on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies
in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctor this particular test twice in selling stress. I doctor the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Some like the greatest disinfectant. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
Greg Olespiand, Michael Marancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.
Laura Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at America for County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until Justice has served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trap podcast on the I-Hart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bailey Taylor and this is It Girl. You may know me from my It Girl series I've done on the streets of New York over the years. Well, I've got good news. I am bringing
those interviews and many more to this podcast. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work with the women
shaping culture right now. As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated.
“So you have to work extra hard and you have to push the narrative in a way that doesn't compromise”
who you are in your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Each week, I have unfiltered conversations with female founders, creatives, and leaders to talk about ambition, visibility, and what it really takes to build something meaningful in the public eye. Because being an It Girl isn't about the spotlight, it's about owning it. I think the negatives need to be discussed and they need to be told to people who maybe don't do this every day,
just so they know what's really going on. I feel like pulling the curtain back is important. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2021, Saskia's ex-husband Mike Levin Good started a prison consulting firm. Smith and Good Associates. He was the good in the business name as in Levin Good, and this Smith was Gary James Smith. Gary has experienced with the system too, but his journey is a lot more complicated.
We're going to take a detour into Gary's story, because it brings up some very important questions about the kind of business Mike is operating. In 2006, Gary was a young veteran, an army ranger fresh out of the military, as a judge set of him at trial. There are many examples in Mr. Smith's life where he was a good person. He was a mentor to young soldiers. He was promoted to the rank of Sergeant Fairly Quickly, which is no easy task. He was assigned to a very responsible unit
with a very important job in the defense of this country. But when good people do best things,
They have to be on the count.
it passed the life of another young man. That young man was 22-year-old Michael McQueen.
“He was also an army ranger, an intelligence analyst. He and Gary served several tours together in”
Afghanistan. When they came back to the U.S., they moved in together. McQueen's friends and family said he was excited to be home. He had plans to go to college, then law school, become a sports agent. But then, in the early morning hours of September 26, 2006, Michael McQueen was found dead. He had a gunshot wound to the head. His roommate Gary Smith was the one to call 911. You're about to hear that call. In it, Gary is distraught. The 911 operator could barely
“understand him. If you'd like, you can skip ahead 30 seconds.”
When the cops arrived, Gary remained inconsolable. He insisted he had nothing to do with McQueen's death. But the police, they didn't buy it. Because Gary was covered in McQueen's blood. And that was an all. Here's the prosecutor at trial. He's outside at this point. Over the top, uncontrolled with crying, and there were not officers when a sergeant said, I noticed he was crying loudly, but there were no tears coming. In each time the authorities pressed Gary,
“he changed his story. During the investigation, he gave three very different versions”
of what happened that night. Story number one came the first time the police asked Gary what
happened. He said he wasn't even home at the time of McQueen's death. They'd been out drinking and Gary dropped McQueen at their apartment before running out for a quick errand. Here's Gary on the police interrogation tapes. He went upstairs. I said, I didn't go pick up some clean socks. I drove over my mother's house. I grabbed the laundry basket full of clothes, put him in my car, turned around and went back to the house. I went upstairs and opened the door.
I saw Mike sitting in the chair and he had some blood off of him, please. Maybe it was a suicide, or maybe someone killed McQueen. Gary offered a few possible theories of who could have done it. Some neighbors McQueen had argued with, or maybe a drug dealer in the building. Gary said when he found McQueen, there were no weapons nearby. He kept all of his guns at his mom's house. But later, he told officer something very different.
Here's story number two. It was Gary's gun. He knew his fingerprints would be all over it and he panicked. Gary confessed that before calling 911, he took the time to get rid of the weapon. He said he threw the gun in a lake. Now, Gary was suddenly sure. This had to be a suicide.
And then there was story number three. Also a suicide. But in this third account,
Gary didn't come home to find McQueen dead. He was in the apartment when McQueen fired the gun. The prosecutor summarized this version for the court. He said, "It comes in. He put the gun on the floor. It was back in the bathroom. He came out and Mike killed himself." And then even the story three, he gets different versions of that. Put it in the table. I was here.
I did see it.
Three different stories and one dead man. And with each version, Gary moved a little closer to
the scene. From nowhere near the apartment and no gun in sight, to finding the gun and throwing in a lake, to being inside the apartment when his friend died. The problem with all three versions, none of them clearly lined up with the forensic evidence. And the interpretation of that evidence was heavily debated by both the prosecution and the defense. There was no confession, no eyewitness testimony. There was only this evidence in Gary Smith's word.
“And it's important to say here, Gary Smith is white. Michael McQueen was black.”
After nine years of proceedings in two separate appeals, Gary Smith finally entered
what's known as an Alfred plea. An Alfred plea is essentially a guilty plea where you say that I'm not saying that I did it, but I acknowledge that there's its sufficient evidence in order to find me guilty. That's max for the loan, a defense attorney in Maryland and the founder of Freswitz Criminal Defense. So if somebody you spent years in jail, the state is put on multiple criminal trials, subpoena numerous witnesses who have testified multiple times under oath.
And so sort of the whole entire goal of an Alfred plea is that the person's found guilty,
but the person themselves doesn't have to say it. But ultimately, it is a conviction.
“An Alfred plea is a compromise. The state still gets a conviction, but the defendant gets the ability”
to maintain their innocence. Plus, as part of the plea, Gary's legal team negotiated his charges down significantly. But was once a murder charge was now reckless endangerment, and he got sentenced to time served. In the end, Gary Smith served just six years behind bars. We reached out to Gary for comment, but he didn't respond to our call. The same goes for Michael McQueen's family. When Gary Smith was released, he also quickly got a job. He went to work for the very law firm
that had defended him. He's even used in the firm's promotional materials. I'm Gary. I'm a law clerk here at the Office of Jessica Louise. I served six years in prison before there was an army ranger. If you were a loved one who'd been charged with a crime, please give our offices a call and we'd love to help you. And now I'm happy to say that Gary works for me full time as a law clerk on all my homicide cases
and my serious felony cases. That's Andrew Jesick. Gary's boss. Speaking on his firm's YouTube
“channel. I'm proud of him and I think we were able to show in the end that Gary was innocent”
and that Gary deserved to get every break that he could. And now he's married. He's got a child. He's my law clerk. He's going to go to law school and he's hopefully going to be my partner one day. If that voice sounds familiar, it's because you've heard it before. Every scene has it passed and every center has a future. And Mike, the great parts of him will continue and dominate for the rest of his life.
Andrew Jesick was also Mike Levin Goods' defense attorney. He also didn't return our call. In many ways, Gary and Mike had a lot in common. Both of their cases ended in a mess of legal technicalities and they were both convicted. But they each maintained their innocence in spite of the judges ruling. It's no wonder then that these two became partners. That they came together to help other people like them. On this myth and good site, they invite people to reach out and
give them a call. So I called him up and surprisingly answered. I'm Laurie Seagull, a longtime tech journalist. And consider my new podcast mostly human, your bridge to the future. Anyone can now be an entrepreneur. Anyone can build an app. And it's very empowering. Each week, I'll speak to the people building that future. And we're going to break down what all of this innovation actually means for you.
What I come to realize is that when people think that they're dating these AI companion, they're actually dating the companies that create this. We're experiencing one of the greatest
Tech accelerations in human history.
for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you. But it's my belief that we should
all benefit from this moment. Mostly human will show you how. My goal is to give you the playbook. So you can benefit. The reason I say agency is because like if you can give power back to people,
“then I think that's part of the best thing we can do for your mental health. Listen,”
mostly human on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A silver 40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene. From I-Heart Podcasts and best case studios. This is Worshack, Murder at City Hall. July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons. And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.
Everybody in the chambers of dogs, a shocking public murder. A scream, get down, get down. Those are shots. Those are shots, get down. A charismatic politician. You know, he just bent the rules all the time. I still have a weapon. And I could shoot you. And an outsider with a secret. He alleged he was effective flat-down. That may have
“been not been political. That may have been about sex. Listen to Worshack, Murder at City Hall,”
on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, former Bachelor Star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. Took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see
what their tax dollars were being used for. Some like the greatest disinfectant. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg O' Westby and Michael Marancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.
Laura Scott Stelpoise. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at America, Pekania's Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until Justice has served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trap podcast on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, Roldell, the writer who thought I'd Willy Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? I'd must have been.
Our new podcast series, "The Secret World of Roldell" is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary controversial life.
His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans, and he was really good at it.
You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, because that was a spy. Did you know dog got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Play poker with Harry Truman, and had a long affair with a congresswoman, and then he took his talents to Hollywood. We worked alongside Walt Disney, an Alfred Hitchcock, before writing a hit James Bond film.
How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever,
“and what darkness from his covert past, seeped into the stories we read as kids?”
The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roldell on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. By 2021, both Mike Levin Good and Gary James Smith had served their sentences. And together, they launched Smith and Good Associates, built on their experiences with and contacts within the criminal justice system.
On the surface, their business is like any other consulting firm. They've got clean headshots, and a polished website, but they're promised to help guide clients through a confusing system. But behind the branding, there's a convicted rapist, and a man convicted in connection with the death of his friend. And both are charging money to consult criminal defendants. We've confirmed through legal documents that the firm's been employed
by Jessica Moe's, the criminal defense firm, Mike and Gary both used. On one hand, all of this is perfectly legal. Gary and Mike served their sentences,
There's nothing stopping them from creating a business like this.
the justice system, it might even be a good thing. At some point, you do have to earn enough money
“to comply with probation, right? That's Max Frisolone, the lawyer you heard from earlier.”
He's referring to something we discuss at the top of the episode. The X-Cons are required to hold down a job as part of the terms of their probation. For a lot of people who have been convicted of crimes, especially crimes of violence, sexual offenses, traditional employment might be impossible. You know, you're unlikely to get through a background check if you have a prior violent felony or you're a sex offender, so you might have to get creative about how to keep making money.
And making money doesn't just benefit the offender. It benefits their families,
who often suffer from the lack of income that comes with their relatives incarceration.
But the idea that X-Cons are now profiting from that past raises a lot of moral, ethical,
“and legal questions. One of the pitfalls and problems with the industry is your qualification for”
this job is the fact that you committed a crime. That's Tray Morgan, one of my producers. He's been reporting on crime for eight years now and he did a lot of the investigation for this episode. One of the biggest problems he sees with this industry is that there's no certification process to become a prison consultant. I mean, almost every other industry that deals with our criminal justice system has some sort of licensing and some sort of board that establishes rules
and guidelines. But for some reason, we have decided that this one doesn't need oversight. A lot of these crimes are about control and being a consultant puts you in a position of power. And then, there's the concern of people like Mike getting close with fellow criminals. Remember, Mike started this business immediately after getting out. For sex offenders, like Mike and violent offenders like Gary, the Maryland Department of Public
Safety and Correctional Services, they encourage limiting contact with other offenders. And the goal there is really, I mean, it's common sense to reduce the risk of reoffending, especially right when you get out of jail or prison. Mike and Gary working together likely goes against that advice.
“So would Mike consulting other convicted felons while he was still on probation?”
Maybe there's a world where I could get past all of that. Mike and Gary did serve their time. They're technically free to do whatever they want to do. And make money in most ways you could think of. But there's one thing I keep coming back to. What does this business mean for people like Michael McQueen? And for Saskia? I talk to try about it. You know, I keep thinking about the fact that there's this entire
industry built around helping criminal defendants, attending to their fears, their anxieties, their difficulties, and there's someone like Saskia who has been years fighting to get the proper care she needs. I just feel like we spend so much energy caring for perpetrators of these crimes. And as a culture, we don't give the same safeguards to victims.
I hate to say, but in a lot of ways, we are an offender first society. Post conviction,
our focus turned to the convicted to say, "Okay, while they're serving their time, they're getting their life back together." And we start forgetting about the actual victim. When you go to Smith & Goods website, you see a lot about Mike and Gary's accolades. How Mike was a business exec at Fortune 500 companies? And how Gary was an intelligence specialist in Afghanistan. Nowhere on the website, they make any acknowledgement of the details of the crimes
they've been convicted of, and the victims whose lives they've altered forever. And I couldn't imagine what it would be like for Saskia to first learn that her perpetrator is selling the experience that he gained from what he did to her. I just can't imagine. Saskia had no idea about Mike's business. She only found out about it from us once we started investigating for the podcast. I can't say that I was really surprised,
but I just thought it was really a low shameful thing to do. He's not helping victims or not
Helping rehabilitate people, instead of making something good out of it, he d...
He's basically laughing at everything that he put me through. As for Michael McQueen,
“he will never know what Gary went on to do. He was long dead by the time Smith and Good began.”
But those who loved McQueen, his family, his friends, those he served with overseas, remain.
As we said earlier, we tried contacting his mother for comment. She never replied to her messages.
But we do have audio from Gary's final sentencing hearing in 2015. When McQueen's mother got up to give a victim impact statement, and we'd like to share what she had to say. "There must be a concern for victims and for Mike's son who, either no reason was murdered in chill, by someone who he considered a friend. Whether or not is called one thing, whether or not is called a man's father, it is still murder. He's chilled and innocent young man who had
“everything to look forward to. And so I asked myself, where is the fairness for Mike's son?”
Where's the fairness for him?" Mike and Gary get to move on. Victims live with these crimes forever.
"I'll never be the same. I'll never be able to assume that because I'm a good person,
that I'll get treated as one." It would be one thing for Mike to start a business like this if Pete made a men's with Sasuke. If Pete would have said, "I'm a sex addict and I will do anything I can to show you that I'm sorry if he would have done anything in good faith." "Then maybe Sasuke would feel differently about all of it, but if his actions in the divorce trial
are any indication, Mike's not trying to minimize harm."
“There was no regret, no accountability taken, immediately right away the only thing you cared about”
with saving his face. This question of accountability is one that comes up in many of our stories, but it's rare that we have a case where the perpetrator has built a career around his conviction and incarceration, which is one of the reasons we wanted to call Mike to ask him about this ourselves. So, Tre, rang him up. And surprisingly answered, I don't know what I imagined after listening to all the court audio and all of that, but he just sounded like a normal guy.
You know, I introduced myself, I'm Tre, I'm a producer, we're doing a story about Sasuke in
wood and I want to talk to you about your business and he paused for a second.
And then Mike started asking Tre questions, questions like, "So you're a reporter, what's the angle of the story?" And then he said something to the effect of, "What is my business have to do with my personal life? What is my business have to do with Sasuke?" His business is a result of serving time and he served that time because of his relationship to Sasuke. Tre laid this out for Mike, but at this point, Mike was done talking. He said he didn't want
a comment on his business, his criminal trial, or his divorce case. So they ended the call. Afterwards, Tre sat there, frozen for a while, processing Mike's questions. What's the story here? What do his crimes, his personal life, have to do with his business? When he said that, I was caught off guard. Like, how do you answer that? On the final episode of the Trial Season 5, we turned back to Sasuke and her healing journey. I don't think that I can ever trust anybody.
I don't think that I could ever fully be confident that someone wasn't misleading me or manipulating me because I was so sure that he was a good person and that he loved me. How can I ever get to the point where I truly don't fear that?
For resources on sexual violence, visit rain.
free confidential 24/7 support through rain's natural sexual assault hotline. Just text hope
“to 64673 or call 1-800-656-hope. You are not alone. If you would like to reach out to the”
betrayal team or want to tell us your story, email us at [email protected]. That is [email protected]. Or follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod. To access additional content and to connect with the betrayal community, join our [email protected]. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Don't forget to rate and review betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners.
Betrayal is the production of glass podcasts, a division of glass entertainment group,
in partnership with iHart podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass in Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Tray Morgan and Caitlin Golden. Our supervising producer is Carrie Hartman. Our story editor is Monique LeBord, also produced by Ben Featherman. Associate producers are Olivia Hewitt and Leah Jablow, production management by Kristen Melchieri, additional support by Carrie Richmond,
voice acting by Stephanie Young and Tanner Robbins. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kraincheck, audio editing by Tanner Robbins with additional editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio. Special thanks to Saskia, her friends and family, and special thanks to Will Pearson and Carrie LeBordman. The Trayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines, music library provided by my music. For more podcast from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Lori Seagull and on my new podcast mostly human, I'll take you to some wild corners of the tech world. I'm about to go on a date with an AI companion at a real world cafe right here near a city. There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you. Mostly human is your playbook for a how tech can work for you. Anyone can now be an entrepreneur, anyone can build an app,
and it's very empowering. Listen to mostly human on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. In 2023, bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy
“appeared to be a hoax. You doctor this particular test twice in silence, right?”
I doctor the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is love trapped. Laura Scottsdale Police.
As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to love trapped podcast
on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Busted, or you just want the latest on the tournament. We got you. Listen to Clayton and funny the Carrie Champion and Jamal Hill on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Present it by capital 1, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sport. I became a millionaire overnight and lost everything that actually matters.
“I'm so fit. Did you just say they lost everything after you're becoming a millionaire?”
That's right. And it gets worse. It's an aridine too much drama week on the okay story-time podcast. So we'll find out soon. This person writes, I just inherited a fortune after losing my mom. And now my girlfriend's entire family is coming out of nowhere with her hands out. And my girlfriend is already giving my money away. So the girl he wants to marry is already sending money out the door.
Find out how it ends. Listen to the okay story-time podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This isn't iHeart Podcast. Guarantee to you, man.
