The Bachelor Who Was Betrayed | BONUS

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“Hey there, this is Josh from stuff you should know”

with a message that could change your life. This stuff you should know thinks bring podcast playlists is available now, whether spring is sprung in your neck of the wood yet or not. The stuff you should know thinks bring playlists will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside,

and get your hands in the dirt. You can get this stuff you should know thinks bring playlists on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is Icarol. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now.

Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work behind it all.

As a woman in the industry, you always underestimate it.

So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are in your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like the silent ninja. Listen to Icarol with Bailey Taylor on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, it's Joe interesting, host of the spirit daughter podcast, or we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today, I'm talking with my dear friend, Christian Williams.

“It can change you in the best way possible,”

dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns, the embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionaly proud of my chart. Listen to this spirit daughter podcast,

starting on February 24th on the iHeart Radio App,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the burden of guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpride became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years

until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to burden of guilt season two on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm here today with Stephanie Young and Clayton Eckard.

You are the host and you are the storyteller of our Glass Podcasts and iHearts do podcast, Love Trapped. We're in Austin, Texas. This is really exciting. For people who don't know, Love Trapped is about your story, Clayton.

And your relationship with Laura Owens, which started as a business transaction, and then turned into a paternity scandal, and then a three-year pursuit for justice.

Yes. You guys have done an incredible job.

And I'm just glad to talk a little bit about your show and why it's right for the betrayal audience. Thanks for joining me today. Thanks for having us. Thank you for having us.

For the betrayal audience, can you tell them a little bit about who you are and what you do for the show? My name's Stephanie, and I am the producer, writer, and host of Love Trapped. I've been working on this since June of last year. So we're coming up on almost 10 months,

“and I think I've needed that entire time to do all the research for this project.”

And I am Clayton, and I am the lever of this whole experience. It's a life. But I've been really grateful that I have a platform to help not only me, but the other victims with receiving justice. Give me a little bit of a top line about

what's been going on for you in your life over the last few years. And why you need justice? I have well, I think you have the nail in the head. It's been three years of my life that I am not able to let go of until there's resolution.

And currently it's just slowly talking along. And she's still out there and about and has looked for her next victim. And for me, it's a matter of being able to stop all of this and make sure that she doesn't have the ability to continue to perform these antics that she's done for 10 plus years.

This goes far beyond me. So a little bit about Love Trapped. It's the story of your post-bachelors life. Your experience on the show. You are still a bachelor.

You're still a mess. Yes. But your experience on the bachelor and so we meet you on this podcast after, like in the aftermath of that. And through your move to Arizona, you end up meeting a woman named Laura Owens

and through that meeting, that chance encounter. All this craziness and complicated stuff comes out of that meeting.

When I first heard about your story, it feels like

“a brief romantic experience with a person.”

It doesn't work out. There's a moment of rejection that Laura can't face. And there is fallout from that. And what was that like? How would you define that fallout?

One of the darkest energies that I've ever experienced. It was so uncomfortable that I had instant chills. And before she sent me the messages saying she was pregnant, I had the exact thought and I had that I don't know what that just was. But whatever it was, it's far from over.

And Loma hold 11 days later from that point. You know, she sends the initial messages that she's pregnant. But it was a very, very uncomfortable presence. It was as if the lights went off and she was no longer there.

So it's like nothing I've never experienced.

Right. So it became really clear that she wanted a romantic relationship with you. She wanted to have dating relationship with you a long-term relationship with you. And when that didn't work out, she was telling you that she was pregnant. And there was this, she wanted to be connected with you in some way.

It was trying to leverage this idea of you being potentially the father to stay in connection with you. And was doing whatever she could to stay in connection and keep you on the, on the hook.

“One of the things that I think a lot of our betrayal listeners will relate to is that moment”

of when the mass comes off. We talk about it a lot, actually. There is a moment in time when a lot of the storytellers I work with, where they discover like the day of discovery, the husband that they've known for 25 years, then reveals their double life and they physically change their voice changes, their face looks different.

So I think a lot of our listeners and others can really relate to that moment. Are you saying no to Lara and then something ships? Yeah, I mean, I was just going back as you were describing that back into that moment. And I just chills again because her demeanor went from crying to stone cold, just expressionless. And there was this darkness where her eyes didn't go fully black, but it felt as if they did.

And it was just this instant, I said no means no, Lara, there's nothing more here to explore. She wiped her last tear and she said no, I understand. Have a great day. And it was just this, it was like two separate entities. I was talking to one version and then all of a sudden, there was a switch that flipped. I mean, it was that sudden.

“So it's interesting that you say that that's what other people of experience because”

I, yeah, I saw it face to face and I've just never experienced something like that.

Yeah, after that interaction in the car, what happened from there? Well, it tells a little bit about the harassment and then everything you had to go through. Yeah, so we were involved in a real estate transaction. She reached out to me originally to do real estate. You know, I made the mistake of mixing business with pleasure and it was a lesson learned.

Yeah, lesson learned. I don't do that now. But I, you know, it's crossed that boundary. But then I had mentioned to her that in the car the next day. So that was on professional. You know, I can pass you off to another agent. She said no, I want to work with you.

I said, okay, let's keep professional from here on out. She said she agreed to it, but then she kept going back to trying to make it more than that. So over the course of the next few days, it was this. Well, hey, actually, she still want to explore this and then it got to the point of if you're not willing to explore a relationship, I'll just go work with somebody else to which I said,

called her bluff, I said, okay, then go do that. And then she, you know, said, no, no, I really want to work. So it was back and forth and it ultimately she just kept taxing me, kept taxing me. And then she started alluding to the fact that she was fertile. And she knew that she was fertile during this period of her life.

And she was concerned that night, even though we didn't have sexual intercourse, that when we were grinding, something could have fluid could have, you know, been transmitted. So she started looting to it before she said she was pregnant. And I'm like, no, I'm not doing this. And so I was like, hey, I'm going to block you like this.

I don't want anything more to do with you. Please stop and taxing me or harass me because it's constant mess. Just coming in and we're talking paragraphs long. So I ended blocking her and then that was, you know, 11 days or probably a few days later after that,

And she had sent over a positive pregnancy test and like a doctor's note. Yeah.

And so it really has been this journey of proven that she could have never been pregnant,

that you are not the father.

“Hey there, this is Josh from stuff you should know with a message that could change your life.”

This stuff you should know, think spring podcast playlist is available now, whether spring is sprung in your neck of the wood yet or not. The stuff you should know, think spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the stuff you should know, think spring playlist on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bailey Taylor and this is It Girl. You may know me from my Icarol series I've done on the streets of New York over the years. Well, I've got good news. I am bringing those interviews and many more to this podcast. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure,

the expectations, and the real work with the women shaping culture right now.

As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated.

“So you have to work extra hard and you have to push the narrative in a way that doesn't compromise.”

Who you are in your integrity? You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Each week I have unfiltered conversations with female founders, creatives, and leaders to talk about ambition, visibility, and what it really takes to build something meaningful in the public eye. Because being an Icarol isn't about the spotlight, it's about owning it.

I think the negatives need to be discussed and they need to be told to people who maybe don't do this every day, just so they know what's really going on. I feel like pulling the curtain back is important. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the spirit daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, needle charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life.

And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic, aquarium, visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives, and I find a lot of people with strong placements and Aquarius, like our misunderstood, a son and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house.

Spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has told me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it. Oh, if you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how leading artists integrate astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the spirit daughter podcast, starting on February 24th on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast. I'm Clayton Nackard, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final

rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

“But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines?”

It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. A great a date me, but I'm also so suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of He said she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What has it been like covering the story, Stephanie? It's been mind-blowing because every time you think that you've heard it all, there's something else that comes out. This can't possibly be real. I think one of the most mind-blowing things is the timeline of events. In Betrayal, you just mentioned some of these people have been together for 25 years. It's that shock of being

betrayed by somebody that you know that long. With Clayton's case, he met her via LinkedIn message on May 17th. The hookup happened on May 20th, and then by June 1st, she was pregnant. So this is like a speedy timeline compared to some of the betrayal stories. So that to me is shocking

zero to a hundred. And the unrelenting barrage of information because she then filed,

you've become embroiled in just a legal battle. Yeah, she filed a parenting plan which I couldn't believe in, which in shock that I had to respond to it via the court system. Otherwise, they would submit a default judgment and most times they would assume the majority of time people find parenting plans are actually pregnant. So I was going to throw away the paperwork

“and that I had someone on the illegal side of things that said, "No, you can't do that. You need to”

respond." And I went into the court and the judge asked me why I was countering this parenting plan and I said, "Because there are no children." And he said, "You mean like to have them born yet?" I said, "No, there's no child or children." They don't exist. And he just said, "Look at me, he's like, are you, are you being serious?" So you're messing with me. I said, "No, I'm telling you, she's making all this up." And he was just perplexed and he goes, "Okay, while I'll push this up

the court." So he basically just pushed into another realm of the court. But it was, yeah,

I felt ridiculous. The whole thing was ridiculous. I'm like, "I don't know how to respond to this. She's making it up. How do I prove this?" And that's where we end up going with it was, "Okay, well, let's get her to prove pregnancy because," I mean, that's how I get out of this, you know, because this is something that now, she's going to hold over me and how far she's going to take this. And you know, as we've just recently uncovered, obviously,

through the timeline of this podcast, like, she took a public. So then it became a, I need to prove to the public, now, a court of public opinion. I have to be able to prove that this is all lie. Yeah. I want to jump in and just say that from the time that she told Clayton, she was pregnant, to the time that she filed in the court in Arizona. It was only about eight weeks. So she was technically still in her first trimester. And as a woman, you know, that most people don't

tell people that they're even pregnant until after the first trimester. Well, Felix, right? Yeah.

“So I think that was another interesting part of this that from the time that she found out she was”

pregnant to the time that it was filed to establish paternity in the court. There's only eight weeks. Well, I think what's interesting, too, for one, you can tell. She has the time as better than I do at this point. For me, I mean, I just, it just feels like a blur of three years. You know, it's like, the emotions are so strong, but I don't know exactly on what dates these things happen.

It just felt like it always mushed together. But the other side of it, too, you see the ignorance

of a man to, you know, people go, "Oh, come on, day 11." And she's pregnant. I, why would you even take that up and believe that in the first place? But because I was googling, I mean, as a man, I had no idea. I'm like, I don't know how to fact-check this or, and I wasn't bringing it to my family originally. So this is just me living this experience. And I'm just googling. In Google, it was like, yeah, I mean, technically some of you can miss their period and like, show, show signs,

or pregnancy, or be test positive, as soon as like 10 days. So I was like, well, that we're on day 11. So it was just one of these things where at first I'm fighting this alone. Obviously, I don't want this to get out to the public. But it's, you know, there's like, I'd also don't understand what I'm up against because I'm like, I don't know. I mean, I'm a guy. I don't know if this is

“possible. And so I'm just constantly googling. And I think she was too though. I think she was also,”

you know, doing her homework. Yeah. We do often deal with stories of people who are intimate partners or relationships that have been built over a number of years. This is about two strangers meeting. How did that affect you emotionally having your life completely upended? Like, do you think about if I just didn't respond to that LinkedIn message? Like, where does your mind go? Yeah. You know, it depends. When if you ask that question six months ago or even three months ago

and as opposed to now, I mean, I've found the silver lining and all of this. But it certainly messed with me. I mean, I lost a lot of trust and people. I mean, I used to become a very protective of my energy, which I needed to be more protective, but I almost like overcompensated. But it's something where I struggled to function on a daily basis because it, I really felt, I mean, very quickly, I realized this individual was looking to destroy me emotionally and render

me useless. I mean, take me out of my ability to be able to function and work my jobs and you know, I just felt very suffocating. And this person also had time on their hands. I mean, she was working around the clock. I'd get emails just all throughout the day. She would find out she doesn't have a job. So she made this her full-time job. Yeah. And it was very suffocating.

And I mean, a lot of us can relate to this if you have, you know, someone that's, you know, abusive or somebody that has some news that they're like, I'm going to, you know, share this news with

like, or the threatening you and some capacity. It's basically the thing that's on your mind at all times.

It's stress. Yeah. It's just constantly weighing on you. So no matter what else you're doing in life, in any moment of silence, you just go right back into that box. You know, that I so hard, like, tried to compartmentalize. I just pushed everything in. I'm like, I have to go about my life. But this box exists. But any moment of silence, you know, we're things slow down in life. You just go right back into the box. You're like, I can't help this because this is out of my

control to, you know, there's somebody on this other side that's plotting. And you don't know what their next move is going to be. Have you, like, envisioned what life would be like when you're done

“dealing with Laura Owen's or do you feel like it's always going to be there?”

I'll be able to let go of a lot of anger. There's, there's a lot of anger that's rooted in this.

Not only just at her, but it within myself. And I have to give myself grace. But I do see, obviously, that this was all brought on part of me partly of my own doing because of the actions I took, but even leading up to it. I mean, I was utilizing marijuana at the time to cope with the stress from throughout a television experience that I just recently realized I still have not gotten over. I still harbor a lot of anger from that whole experience. And so, there's parts to

me that say, yeah, I mean, if you were able to have healed from these experiences, you wouldn't have found yourself back in this cycle. You wouldn't have subjected yourself to this kind of energy, but you did because you're not healed to the degree where you wouldn't place your energy in a person like her. And, you know, that's something that I do understand is like, hey, you could have avoided this,

but ultimately you were what you were when you first met her, which was a damaged individual.

Yeah.

“Hey there, this is Josh from Stuff You Should Know with a message that could change your life.”

This stuff you should know, Think Spring Podcast Playlist is available now, whether Spring has sprung in your neck of the wood yet or not. The stuff you should know, Think Spring Playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside, and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the stuff you should know, Think Spring Playlist on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl. You may know me from my It Girl series I've done on the streets of New York over the years, well, I've got good news. I am bringing those interviews and many more to this podcast. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work with the women shaping

“culture right now. As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work,”

extra hard, and you have to push the narrative in a way that doesn't compromise who you are in your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Each week, I have unfiltered conversations with female founders, creatives, and leaders to talk about ambition, visibility, and what it really takes to build something meaningful in the public eye. Because being in It Girl isn't about the spotlight, it's about owning it. I think the negatives

need to be discussed, and they need to be told to people who maybe don't do this every day, just so they know what's really going on. I feel like pulling the curtain back is important. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Joe Interesting, host of this fair dotter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a

mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. After storyteller and unapologetic, aquarium, visionary, Aquarius is all about freedom loving, and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius, like our misunderstood, a son and Venus in Aquarius, in her 7th house, spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has told me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on

different houses in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to this viewer dotter podcast,

I'm Clayton Nackard, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final

rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would.

“But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines?”

It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. A great adatement, but I'm also so suing you. It's such fun. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said she said and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One of the things that we do on betrayal is every storyteller works with. A mental health provider for a therapist, life coach, in each season to unpack a certain part of their story. And a little bit of a preview for season 5 as Sask is working with Jessica Baum. They do just specializes in Amago therapy, which is really understanding like it's in her child work.

And when I met Sask, she really wanted to unpack her childhood and really figure out what is her relationship with herself worth and how she understands love and validation

that ultimately led her to my club and good. And we hear those conversations and her therapy sessions.

But it is important because as much as we can't control Laura Owens, we can't control my club and good. All we can do is really look internally at ourselves and say it's not our fault, but how did I get here? And it's just a really fascinating conversation. And it's work to be done.

“And to do that work and to have that perspective, you should be proud of yourself.”

Yeah, and I appreciate that. I also just understand that my environment has obviously influenced me and I've also went back into my childhood and I've seen why I've become the way that I have and why I take certain actions and subject myself to certain people. Maybe there was a lack of something in my childhood that I'm, you know, seeking and there's certain things that I've uncovered. But ultimately too, I think it's just as important

in order to heal from that and overcome it, you have to accept accountability that while you were doing the best with what you could, you know, you are still someone that you made decisions and put yourself in those. I'm a position like that. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it right. That someone took advantage of me or anybody else. But there is the okay, hey, I want to better myself. So I need to understand that like I found my way here, but I can also take myself out of it.

I mean, we're all doing our best, right? So there's no victim blaming that should be had. It's more just, hey, I am a human being for the better and for the worse. I've made decisions in my life. My environment's impacted me. But I also want to be a better human. So how can I make sure that I don't find myself in this position again? You know, what steps do I need to take to become stronger

“and more resilient and just have more self-love? Because I believe that me with more self-love,”

again, would have never been interacted with somebody like her.

Yeah. I think something too that's so interesting from my perspective is the way that his emotions have shifted over. Oh, you've seen it? Oh, yeah, over the last nine months. It's, you know, there's times where he's really angry. There's times where he's sad. There's times where he's willing to forgive. And then there's times where he's like, no, I'm actually really mad. So to see this roller coaster of emotion over the past nine to ten months has been interesting from my perspective.

We talk about that a lot on betrayal about how progress is in a straight line and like healing isn't linear. And sometimes you're just going around because you're meeting the experience at different phases of your own healing journey and your own like you're reading, you're engaging in certain books and podcasters and like material to better yourself. And so it makes you look at your experience in a different way. You know, you were talking about, what are you reading right now?

Oh, the art is the action. It's probably not the best for the show. But later constantly you're trying to, but you're working through your experience. And so it's going to bring up complicated feelings about different choices and the different fallout. The, the last thing I want to say about the betrayal, what, but I think the audience is really going to relate to is your journey with the

you know, despite fear, despite being in a really dangerous situation, they couldn't get

protection from abuse. They really had to fight to the nail to get any acknowledgment from the court system. And so what is complicated about your story as someone who's actually being able to navigate the criminal justice system pretty seamlessly in ways that our storytellers actually struggle to, which is going to be really hard for some of our listeners listening to, but it's fascinating. What is it like to be in a courtroom? Like, in the scene that you were just telling

“me about, it's a serious place, it's serious people. Yeah. But what are we even talking about here?”

There's not even a real pregnancy. It's absurd. Yeah. Like that duality is mind-bending. Yeah,

I had a little level of confidence early on probably because watching so much long order growing

up. So I, as people found out early on, I had so much confidence that I self represented, which I didn't do for too long. Yeah. But I showed up with my glasses and my tucked in shirt and my briefcase and he binge suits. Yeah. And I, but I also really thought, hey, look, like this is a ridiculous claim and I'm the one that's telling the truth. I mean, all I have to do is just speak my truth. So I did have a level of confidence, which I, again, I would also say based on, like I played,

you know, D1 division one football. I was on the badge. I was in high stress environments. So to me, I had a level of comfort and confidence going into the courtroom and truth on my side.

That being said, I realized very quickly that I could not keep up with the

jargon, you know, the court jargon that I was like, oh, wait, I'm over here raising my hand. I'm like, I don't even know if I, what can I speak? Can I not? It was a surreal experience. And obviously, I really, I was like, look, I have to take this seriously because I could get caught up on a technicality. Even though I'm telling the truth, I could get caught up on some technicality where she could end up then, you know, winning. Right. And it's a really hard lesson to learn,

especially about our justice system, that sometimes the last thing that matters is actually the truth. Right. They have, again, like, there's technicalities here and there and you start seeing these arguments be brought up by her counsel where I'm like, that's ridiculous, but they're just trying to stick on one little exception. And it's like, but that could blow the whole thing up. I feel like

“you have to, if you have one little hole in the argument, they can just blow that up and then”

say the register, the rest of it is no longer usable. And that is what really I realized I'm like, this is actually very, like, you have to be so specific, and you really can't have any flaws and your arguments. And so I'm obviously, I believe, or representation now. And that's helped out a lot. And I got that, you know, because of the privilege that I've had of being on reality television and being a celebrity to some degree. Most people don't have that luxury.

If I wasn't a celebrity, I wouldn't have had the support. And obviously, the previous victims, they did not have that support. I think that is something that, you know, rightfully, has agitated some people. They go, this is, you know, lucky for you. I mean, because I which I could have had support. And I'm very blessed for that, but it is unfortunate that if you have some level of

“status, you have a better chance of navigating the court system. I think there are a lot of victims”

out there that are afraid because they don't have the financial resources. They don't have the legal representation and it can be a very scary thing when you go in front of a judge. And, you know, you don't know what words to say and all of a sudden you're up against someone's legal counsel that has money. And they just start hammering you with these, these, these technicalities. And yeah, I mean, again, I watched the previous victims get run out of court because she

had more money, more resources. Has she bankrupted any of them? Like, he could have easily. Yeah, well, she's, I mean, she's cost them thousands of thousand dollars. We're talking sixty, eighty thousand dollars, that's just money that's gone poof. And so, yeah, I mean, maybe not bankrupted them, but it has financially harmed them. I mean, that's money that could have been, you know, put anywhere else. They both have children. So I was going to say, like, a college. And that was,

that's a conversation that I had with one of the other victims was, do I want to fight this? Or do I want to use this money for my kids' futures? And that was a really hard conversation. Yeah. What do you guys want the betrayal audience to know about your show? I would like the betrayal audience to know that the story is got the similar elements of the betrayal show. It's got the manipulation, the the fraud, the deception, all of those things.

with all the people who have lived it. I think Clayton and I have talked for probably over 30 hours on tape. I've really gotten to know Clayton. I've really gotten to know some of the other victims. And hearing their stories and seeing what they've been through has been really eye-opening. And also, a lot of times you think it's just one victim and, you know, it affected Clayton's life. But it's the collateral damage of everyone that's involved. And the wave of destruction that goes

along with it that is really the most impactful part to me. Because you can see how one woman's choices really affect so many people. Yeah, and the piggyback off that I would say,

“I think with this story, I really highlight, it's the power of community. And I hope it inspires”

those that listen to find their own communities and understand that nothing should be fought alone. You know, individuals that go through something similar a lot of times they carry a lot of shame.

And I was certainly in that same position. And I remember when it first went public, I was like,

this is going to ruin me. And actually, a going public was the greatest thing that ever happened. Because there was an army of people that were willing to rally around me. But I didn't necessarily even need an army to just, you know, having two or three people in my corner, I mean, makes all the difference. So I think we all are fighting our own battles. And a lot of times, you know, people that are listening to these true crime series. I think a lot of people, they're able to sympathize. They've

went through. They know someone who's went through something similar. They've experienced it. This story, I really think, it just highlights the power of that community and that, anyone that's going through something similar knows if someone going through something similar,

keep in mind how powerful a your support can be for somebody and help them get through a dark time.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here today and sharing a little bit about your story. Where can people get your podcast? The I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere you listen to podcasts, and a five-star rating goes a long way. So new episodes,

“every Thursday. Hey there. This is Josh from stuff you should know with a message that could”

change your life. The stuff you should know, think spring podcast playlist is available now, whether spring is sprung in your neck of the wood yet or not. The stuff you should know, think spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside, and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the stuff you should know, think spring playlist on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bailey Taylor and this is Icarol.

This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure,

the expectations, and the real work behind it all. As a woman in the industry, you're always

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your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like the silent ninja. Listen to Icarol with Bailey Taylor on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Joe interesting, host of the Spirit Jotter podcast, or we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today, I'm talking with my dear friend, Crystal Williams. It can change you in the best way possible, dance with the change,

dance with the breakdowns, the embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. Just so I'm like delusionaly proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Jotter podcast, starting on February 24th on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the burden of guilt season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpride became the victim

of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to burden of guilt season 2 on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. guaranteed human.