Bridge of Lies
Bridge of Lies

The Search

4h ago39:116,369 words
0:000:00

Sarah’s friends offer investigators competing theories on what might have happened to her. Did Sarah end her life? Or seek a new life in Canada? As the search for Sarah continues, the clues are confou...

Transcript

EN

You've been doing this for the whole time.

No, not at all. You're the same as my C-space.

You're the same as all of them?

β€œYes, exactly. The same as the D-Stoy App that I just understood.”

The G-Log Studio, Job or Unzug. It's like a D-class. I don't feel like a D-Stoy. D-Stoy is the same. - D-Stoy? With V-Stoy, yeah. At 4.50 a.m. on December 3rd, 2016,

Franny Hines got a call. It was the Belmore police. That they were requesting our, our water rescue team and our water assets to search for someone who possibly had gone off the highway 35 bridge.

Franny ran the Belmore first aid squad. By daybreak, he and his crew scrambled boats and divers

to search the water under the bridge where Sarah Stern's old mobile had been found the night before. Other members of his team began to search along the shore. So by the time the sun came up, we had a full search of all this area here, basically under the bridge and under all the docks. And on the outside, we searched all the way out to the ocean avenue bridge as well.

So it was a pretty big operation. Franny spoke to ABC News to give us a sense of the operation. He took our team out on a small motorboat marked rescue and big yellow letters above the windshield. It was quiet on the river. Many of the fishing boats were still parked in their dogs. See that yellow sign is where we think she went over.

Up on the top. From the water, Franny pointed up to a yellow hazard sign right in the middle of the bridge before guiding the boat underneath. So we searched all the way out to the ocean and land and all the way into the back bay here. We've reached search mall. The river here runs about 11 miles long.

Some areas can be as deep as 18 feet. In the summer, the shark rivers a popular spot for fishing boats and kayakers. It runs through residential neighborhoods in Belmar and Neptune City, before it spills out into the Atlantic Ocean, less than a mile away. But on that day, it was too cold for fun on the water.

β€œI think the water temperature was 38 degrees, something like that.”

The boats and divers looked under docks and around old pilings in the river, pieces of old concrete from a previous bridge. Around eight o'clock that morning, they ended up calling in more reinforcements to help. And we also called in the mom of County Sheriff's Office, Dive Team, who brought some more expertise to the search.

At the start of the search, Franny had no idea who he was looking for. All he was told was that there might be someone in the water. But then, he learned the missing person's name. It kind of sent a tingled down my spine because Sarah was our neighbor for her entire life. Franny and Sarah's father, Michael, were friends.

They'd lived across the street from each other for 25 years. Sarah even walked her dog buddy past Franny's house every day.

I've been out a lot of searches for a lot of people, but this is the first time we were searching for somebody that we knew.

Franny thought that a jump or fall off the bell-mar bridge was survivable. He actually used to jump off a similar smaller bridge as a kid, for fun. But staying alive in water that cold is another thing altogether. We're pretty sure that after a little while, an hour, if someone's in a water that we're probably not going to find them alive. If there was a chance Sarah was alive, he wanted to make sure he was there.

I wanted to find her, I wanted to make sure that I wanted to be there because it was very personal to make sure. As night turned today, police started to form theories about what could have happened to Sarah start. Narratives that start to form the basis of a full-on investigation.

β€œDid Sarah park her car on the bell-mar bridge and jump?”

Did she abandon her car and life in Neptune for parts unknown? Or were officers being steered away from a darker truth? From ABC Audio and 2020, I'm Judy Chang. And this is Bridge of Lies. Episode 2

The Search

Around 10 a.

Just hours after they first visited him that same morning.

On the police body camera footage, we can see it was a bright sunny day. Liam had switched out his grey pajamas for blue jeans, a plaid shirt and dark sunglasses. Liam's roommate and cousin were with him. They sit staggered on different steps of the front porch. Liam's mom's dog looked through the screen door.

β€œWhat was she wearing this at the last time you saw him?”

I know when I got there her house at one or two o'clock. She was just wearing a red t-shirt and black running shorts or something. Police were trying to piece together what Sarah did the day she went missing and what her mindset could have been. The officers were stern. They wanted to make sure Liam got the severity of the situation.

A 19-year-old girl was missing. No one had heard from her since the day before. And Liam might be the only one who could help. We got said to you before we have a lot of resources out there and we need to find her. And make sure she's safe and okay.

And this is why I'm really hammering this home to you. Liam, you're young. I want to make sure you get help.

β€œIf you want to get help, you can get help.”

If you want to get help, you can get help. You can get help. If you want to get help, you can get help. If you want to get help, you can get help. If you want to get help, you can get help.

If you want to get help, you can get help. If you want to get help, you can get help. If you want to get help, you can get help. If you want to get help, you can get help. If you want to get help, you can get help.

If you want to get help, you can get help.

For the most part, Liam repeated what he told officers when they first visited his house earlier that morning.

Normal teenage stuff. He drove to Sarah's house to hang out. They went to Taco Bell for lunch. Then he helped her drop off a box of Sarah's stuff at her neighbor's house. He said she'd been trying to move some things out of her house over the past week or so.

He even had some of her stuff at his house. And I actually have a few of these in my basement right now. Of hers? Of hers? Yeah, if you guys want to go through those, she, she's just been trying to get stuff out of the house away from her dad over the past week or whatever.

You seem to have a pretty good relationship.

β€œWhat's her reasoning for wanting to get the stuff out of her father's place?”

I know she definitely has a lot of trust issues with her dad. So I've been trying to help her out with that. I've been friends with her since first grade, so we have a pretty good friendship. Liam said they had the kind of relationship where Sarah felt she could confide in him. And she told him that things between her and her father had been tense.

Over the past few months, she's been telling me how that her relationship with her father is and how she just needs to get out of here. Why was it bad? What made it bad? Fiting, arguing, fighting, arguing, fighting, constantly. Liam said that Sarah and her father would fight over trivial things that he watched them argue over the phone a few weeks ago.

Going back and forth over replacing a broken key in the house. Just arguing for the sake of arguing because the other day when the key broke, he called her four times and they had the same exact conversation, same argument like they never had it over and over again. This was what Liam told the officers. According to investigators, Michael Sarah's dad told them he and Sarah actually had a pretty normal father-daughter relationship.

Yes, they'd argue and wouldn't always agree, but it didn't affect how much love they had for each other.

But at least according to Liam, Sarah was desperate to get away because of her dad. She was even thinking about moving to Canada. The mention of YouTube and Sarah going to conventions just really seemed to throw the police. Remember, it was 2016. YouTube was the platform where artists, comedians, makeup gurus, vloggers, essentially anyone could become an internet celebrity and gain a following.

And people would go to fan conventions to meet their favorite creators and connect with other fans. At this point, YouTube was over a decade old, but police told Liam that they just didn't get it. I don't know, I'm not quick on this. It's doing a bit. Yeah, it's doing a bit of YouTube.

What are the people that let you post up on YouTube? Yeah, there's people.

They have a channel and they post videos.

Liam, the thing on YouTube conventions or whatever, you don't have any idea what they are. Officers were curious about the friends Sarah made through her online community and the YouTube personalities she followed. Trying to determine if her life online could have influenced her decision to leave.

β€œI think they're just panels really sit down and match.”

I don't know too much about it. They could be shows. I'm not really good in music. Yeah, my YouTube thing's all new to me. I don't know.

Liam said he didn't know much about that part of her life. Just that Sarah went to these conventions often. And YouTube comedian Grace Helbig was her idol. Police stepped away to watch a few of Helbig's videos and came back skeptical. I mean, I just pulled it up.

I'm going to be honest. I just pulled it up on the coat car. Yeah. And she's talking about making ugly Christmas sweaters with with bells on it. Like that.

Does that sound familiar?

Is that basically what Sarah's falling around?

They sit in front of a camera doing a little podcast type of thing of her talking about stupid. Exactly what they do. Officers were pretty dismissive about what they saw. But they were wondering if it could be a clue to Sarah's whereabouts. That's going to help us try and figure out where the hell she's at.

Yeah. I'm interested in a big time. They saw it as teenage nonsense. Even Liam admitted it's weird. But they decided the videos could be important to understanding Sarah's motivations.

It could help explain why she would have run away and where she might be. But Liam also presented the police with a second theory about what could have happened to Sarah. Has she been different than normal lately? Well, for how long? In the past, she has had a tendency to have self-destructive suicide.

I don't behave here. In later interviews with police, Sarah's friends and family said she seemed fine.

They said they'd never heard her talk about attempting suicide or hurting herself.

According to authorities, her dad told investigators that she's never been diagnosed with any mental health issues. But Liam told police that Sarah expressed suicidal thoughts when they were in high school. He talked about a time when Sarah became very dependent on one of his ex-girlfriends. The two were close friends.

But when Sarah was having a crisis, he told police she'd demand Liam's ex come over and made comments that she'd kill herself if she didn't. This was all happening around the time of her mother's death, a few years earlier. So police were hearing that Sarah had a history of suicidal thoughts. And if tensions were running high between her and her father,

β€œcould it have led to Sarah struggling with those feelings again?”

Liam then went through how he said he spent the rest of the day with Sarah. He told officers that after they dropped off the box of her stuff at her neighbors, the draper's, they went back to Sarah's place and watched a nightmare on Elm Street. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. He told them that he left around 445 p.m. to make his shift at the local stake house.

Liam and Sarah said they're goodbyes. He said he remembered telling her, "I'll see you later." Liam told the officers he got off work early, went home, and ended the night there, getting drunk with his roommate. Officers were nearing the end of their house visit with Liam.

But before they went, they left him with one more heavy reminder. Listen, this is, I'm going to throw this out to you. The resources that are out there right now looking for her, the amount of manpower. We have people swimming in the shark river in this cold weather, cold water, everything else. We have boats, we have helicopters.

β€œDude, if you know anything about where this girl is or have any contact with her, you need to let us know.”

Liam assured them that he'll reach out if he heard anything about Sarah's whereabouts, and the officers left with two possible theories to consider. Theory number one, Sarah ran away to Canada. Liam told police that Sarah and her father had a difficult relationship, and as detectives talked to more of Sarah's friends and family,

they learned that she and Michael didn't always get along.

According to Liam, Sarah couldn't trust him. So she was trying to get away. It could explain why she'd been giving away boxes of her belongings, and maybe she did get away. Maybe she did go to Canada to start a new life away from her father,

to join the community of friends she already had there. But the police were not ruling out theory number two, perhaps Sarah died by suicide. Because Liam also suggested that Sarah had struggled with feelings of depression in the past, did those feelings come back?

Did it get to the point where Sarah felt like jumping off that bridge last night

was her only option?

It's a dark theory the police were considering,

but with so little to go on, it was all within the realm of possibility. Back at the shark river, Franny and his team were still looking for Sarah, boats were scanning ashore, divers were looking underwater.

That premise was a little bit, but we did search both sides of the bridge and under all the docks and all the boats that are over here behind us. But after eight hours of searching, their efforts turned up nothing. We searched so far about three o'clock and after noon, and I thought we decided to call it.

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Yes. Season premiere Sunday, 8/7 Central on ABC and next day on Hulu. Police knew one of the best ways to figure out what happened on the Belmar bridge that night was to look for security cameras. And found a few, right by the bridge.

β€œIt's a very important law enforcement tool.”

And it's one of the first things as investigators that we seek to find. Detective Brian Weissbrot of the Monmouth County Prosecutor's Office got assigned to the investigation a couple days after Sarah went missing. But Weissbrot quickly struck out. The cameras by the bridge weren't working. Turns out they hadn't worked in years.

No easy answers there. So investigators started knocking on doors. They went to restaurants and other businesses in the surrounding area to see if their cameras captured Sarah's car. But none of the footage they collected gave officers a clear enough picture of the highway going towards the bridge. So they turned to Sarah's neighborhood.

Not only do we do neighborhood campuses in an effort to speak with and identify people who may have information to provide, pretending to an incident. We also do canvases for video surveillance recordings.

More and more people have cameras on their homes, which certainly assist law ...

Michael Stern, Sarah's dad, had also been doing his own canvassing, his own desperate search.

Michael Stern was out in the community. He was going into businesses.

β€œHe was talking to anybody that he could talk to in an effort to find her.”

He discovered that his neighbor across the street had a security camera that would have caught Sarah coming and going from the house. Detective Weissbrot reviewed hours of footage. The camera showed a wide view of the stern street. He saw cars passing by and people walking their dogs. In the upper right-hand corner in the distance, he saw Sarah's house.

There were tall hedges of skewering part of the home. For most of the day Sarah went missing, the house was quiet. But there were these brief moments of activity. In the early afternoon, Weissbrot saw Sarah and Liam leave the house. Around the time Liam said they went to talk about.

Sarah's car pulled out of the driveway again that afternoon. And then came back. The last time the video showed her car backing out of the driveway was around midnight. At this point, the footage was dark and grainy. You can't see who's inside the vehicle.

All you can really see was the shape of the car and its lights. We see Sarah's car backing out of the driveway and traveling south away from the home and away from the video surveillance camera. The fact that that car traveled south peaked our interest because all other times, Sarah's car and Liam's car had traveled north and drove directly past the camera.

β€œWas that a coincidence or was someone trying to maybe avoid the camera?”

Just a few hours later, her silver Oldsmobile was reported abandoned on the Belmar Bridge. In the days after Sarah disappeared, the stern family created a Facebook page to share any updates and posted a collection of her photos. In one of the pictures, she's at New York Comic-Con. She just got out of a long meet and greet line.

Sarah's excited, holding up a gold autographed sword that's as big as she is. But mixed in with that album of photos were missing person posters of Sarah. A picture of her in a blue and white t-shirt. Smiling. Took up almost half the page.

The poster listed her identifying features. Age 19, ice, brown, hair, dark brown, and there was now a $5,000 reward for any information on her whereabouts. Rescue teams were still searching the river and the operation had only gotten bigger. The New Jersey State Police and the Coast Guard were now involved. Investigators were also talking to more of Sarah's friends, including Liam's roommate.

Ultimately, we wanted to speak with Preston Taylor, who was Liam McIthatt's roommate at the time.

Preston Taylor and Liam were close friends and roommates. They'd moved in together a few weeks before Sarah went missing. Preston was out on the front lawn with Liam when police came to talk to him the day after Sarah's car was found. Preston's tall kind of lanky with shaggy brown hair and a five o'clock shadow. Preston and Liam met in algebra class during their freshman year at Neptune High School and they'd been good friends ever since.

β€œRemember how Sarah won the yearbook superlative for most artistic?”

Well, Liam and Preston won the superlative for best friends. Reporter Jessica East Hope said Preston and Sarah ran in the same friend circles. They were good friends. Sarah and Liam and Liam's roommate Preston Taylor bonded over things like movies and video games and comic books. Sarah really wasn't too much of a girly girl and so she got along with these other 19-year-old boys because they had common interests.

Sarah and Preston even went to the junior prom together, just as friends.

There was never anything romantic between the two.

On the evening of December 6th, three days after police first came by, they visited Liam and Preston's house again. This time to see Preston. They asked if he'd be willing to answer some questions. Preston said yes and was driven to the Bellmar Police Department to talk to Detective Wysbron. So as you know, we have a job to find out what happened to Sarah and Preston sat across from detectives at a long wooden table in a conference room.

The royal blue seats stood out against the powder blue walls. To Preston's left were shelves stacked with papers and binders and high on one of the walls.

There was a camera pointing down at them.

Recording the conversation.

β€œDetective Wysbrot started the interview by asking Preston a couple background questions.”

Preston said he worked in construction with his dad. Like Liam, he was taking classes at a nearby community college. Detective Wysbrot asked Preston about Liam. The detective asked Preston what he did on Friday, the day Sarah went missing. He said he was at a job site in a different town that day about 30 minutes away.

The detective asked Preston what he did on Friday, the day Sarah went missing. He said he was at a job site in a different town that day about 30 minutes away.

What time did he get home?

Liam was getting ready for trying to find his phone. As soon as I walked in, he was like 28 hours. What did Preston do after he left?

β€œI took him out, he got up, went back to my parents' house.”

Detectives ran through a long list of very detailed questions and Preston answered every single one. Police even asked about what kind of coffee he drank and how it was packaged. He had a can or a bottle or a bottle to label a lady on the front. Throughout it all, Preston made eye contact with investigators and his hands were calmly folded on the table. He told investigators that Liam came back from work around 11pm.

They stayed at home for the night and went on to have what was pretty normal evening for them. Drinking, listening to music and playing video games. Before going to bed around one in the morning. And just a few hours later, police were knocking on their door at 4am. Looking for Sarah.

β€œPreston Taylor provided an information that was relatively consistent with that of Liam in that Liam had been with Sarah on Friday afternoon.”

And that Liam had left to go to work.

Preston had confirmed that when Liam got home from work that he, the two of them socialized together had a few drinks and ultimately went to bed.

The entire time Preston had the same reserved but relaxed demeanor. But there's one moment when Detective Weissbrot noticed Preston's mood changed. At the end of the interview with Preston and I'd asked him what his thoughts were as to what happened with Sarah. He got somewhat emotional. What do you think, Sarah?

Thanks for the job. Preston said he thinks Sarah jumped. It took him a few seconds to get those words out. His voice cracked. He wiped his eyes and stared down at the table in front of him.

Okay. What do you think, John? From the side of her mouth. Look at all of her eyes. What do you think?

Like Liam, Preston told police that Sarah had struggled with her mental health, especially after her mom passed a few years ago. That she threatened to kill herself. He described a tense relationship with her dad. And he said that in recent weeks Sarah had been packing her belongings and moving them out of the house. In fact, Preston told police the last time he saw Sarah was a little over a week ago when she was moving some of her stuff into their basement.

According to authorities, Michael told police that after he got home from his floor to vacation, he learned that Sarah had moved some things to a neighbor's house. He thought it was unusual. In his interview with detectives, Preston says he didn't know why Sarah was giving away boxes of her things. He didn't know what happened to Sarah. And he believed Liam when he said he had no idea either.

The interview lasted roughly two hours. Police said Preston's account seemed consistent with the timeline Liam gave them. But everyone was still desperately wondering what happened to Sarah. The search grew, but police were still unsure if they were looking for a runaway or a body. It's your garden's start-cloth for the morning, because action in quality and the smallest price has in hand.

Welcome back, Rhys.

You and your sister are here for a very exciting reason.

β€œHunters, you haven't told Tom to kill them both.”

Experience the most unhaired. I'm not playing! Bloody. Damn it! Diabolically twisted. Movie of the year.

Some moral weaving, Catherine Newton, Elijah Wood, and Sarah Michelle Bieler. Back for round two. Yeah. But you're not to, here I come. We did all our under 17 on Amidodapar at only Beater's Friday. From 30 for 30 podcasts.

Beater's Friday! Rhys and Pat have seen your defensive linemen from Miami. Gunned out.

The key to this case, it's Friday.

It's been a hour before he died. He was on a phone. Arnold's about this might be my hit. Do you want to truth? I just want to conviction the implicit arrest. We had a killer amongst us.

Murder at the you. Listen now.

β€œOur top story this half hour, the mystery of a missing 19-year-old”

from mom of Kelly Sarah Stern was last seen late Friday night. No, Carl was bound. Sarah's disappearance became a huge local news story on the Jersey Shore. About a week since she'd gone missing, police still hadn't released any significant updates.

And the Stern family wasn't any closer to finding out where Sarah might be. Or what could have happened to her. So they decided to organize a community search. Sarah's dad Michael made the rounds on local media outlets to get the word out about the search.

He told NJ.com that his family was desperate to bring Sarah home. Everybody that talked to her in the days leading up to that, she seemed just fine. And I just don't understand why we haven't heard from her. The search started early Saturday morning.

Over 250 people showed up. Volunteers were given hot coffee and water to fight the frigid 30-degree temperatures. They were a mix of family, friends, teachers, neighbors. Sarah's dad Michael was there too, of course.

So were her friends Liam and Preston. But also community members who heard about Sarah's disappearance through the news and social media. The volunteers broke up into groups and scoured the shoreline and surrounding areas.

Authorities told volunteers to look out for a red sweatshirt, a green iPhone, and Sarah's driver's license. Reporters were also on the scene. Local news station Fios News One covered the search and talked to Liam.

Trying to find any signs pointing to the missing 19-year-old where a friend say is an exceptional person. It's a pretty strong, so hopefully we're going to find something today. For days, there is search parties going up and down. The New Jersey coastline.

Looking for Sarah's body or anything that connected, you know, to Sarah. Carly Draper was Sarah's neighbor and childhood friend. She was also part of the search. Sarah had given Carly's mom Robin a few boxes of her stuff.

Carly had known the students her entire life. Unlike what Liam told police, she said Sarah and her dad Michael were close. They became even closer after her mother passed away. I mean, they had fights, but every, like, daughter or son

has fights with their parents.

Like, you don't always get along, but they were very close

and they both left each other. Carly wanted to help Michael find his daughter, but she felt uneasy because she thought she knew what happened to Sarah.

β€œAnd I remember walking into my rain boots,”

and it was low tide, and I was underneath the 35 bridge in Belmar like in the muck and thinking to myself, "We're never going to find anything because she's in Canada." Carly thought Sarah ran away to Canada. Because of something Sarah said, the last time she'd seen her.

It was the day before Sarah's car was found on the Belmar bridge. Carly was home from college for the weekend to go to see a Christmas lights show with some friends. So I was in my room getting ready to go out.

And I heard like the kitchen door open, and I heard Sarah's voice like calling for my mom. Robin wasn't home. So Carly went downstairs and caught up with Sarah. They hadn't seen each other in a couple of weeks.

And then Liam magnetized and he walked in behind her. And she had a bin and like a little cardboard box. And she told me that my mom said that she could leave it at our house. So she set it down and she was talking to me. And she seemed very happy and she asked me to hang out that night.

She was telling me that she wanted to move to Canada.

Carly knew Sarah loved Canada, but this was the first time she was hearing

that Sarah had plans to move there.

β€œAnd it sounded like she's suddenly had the means to do so.”

Liam had an apartment there that she could stay in and that she had found money that she had in the avon house that they have in a safe. The avon house was the stern family's second home. The avon is a small beach town just a few miles east of Neptune City. And she told me not to tell anyone.

Secret money, Carly was surprised. It sounded like Sarah had found more than just a few hundred dollars for gotten in an old house. It seemed like enough for a new life. Or at least the start of one.

And Sarah didn't want anyone to know. Not other friends, not even her dad.

But then it was time for Carly to head out for the night.

So they said they're goodbyes. Sarah asked Carly again if she wanted to hang out later. But I told her I was going to the Christmas lights show. And she hugged me.

β€œAnd I was like, "Love you, I'm just going to love you too."”

And that was the last time I saw her. Early the next morning, Carly woke up to her mom talking on the phone. Crying. She went downstairs to see what was wrong. And she was like, "They can't find Sarah." And I was like, "Why?"

And she's like, "They found her car on the bridge about my bridge on February 35." And I was like, "Oh my God." So I got in my car and I went straight down there to go see. But it had already been towed away when I got there.

So I just sat there for a while and I was like, "Oh my God."

Like, "What is happening?" Carly couldn't accept that her friend was missing. They just saw each other the day before. When Carly drove back to her house, her street was lined with police cars and detectives talking to neighbors.

She thought back on her last interaction with Sarah. What stood out to her was just how carefree she seemed. Almost determined. So to Carly, Sarah couldn't have died by suicide because she was making plans to move to Canada.

She had asked me to hang out that night. Like, if you know you're going to commit suicide, you don't ask someone to hang out with you. And she seemed really happy. Like, she was happy.

She was laughing smiling. Give me a hug. She probably went to Canada because she was talking about it. Like, she said she'd clean my department there. She could stay in and she'd found money.

Carly even thought, "Maybe Sarah left her car behind. To make people believe she jumped off that bridge. So she could leave the country and truly have a fresh start. Nothing would be holding her back." Carly told her mom Robin about the money Sarah had found

and Robin called the police. The money changed everything. Detectives started reevaluating their original theories. Police also realized that Sarah's discovery wasn't much of a secret. Again, Detective Weiss brought.

We had spoken with several of Sarah's family members or friends who had reported that she had told them that she had found money inside of a home that her dad had owned. Could Sarah's new cash have been the push she was waiting for to move to Canada and start a new life?

Or was there something more sinister at play? It sounded like more people knew about the money than Sarah intended.

β€œCould someone else have been interested in Sarah's money and taken it?”

Police start to believe that something violent happened to Sarah. But one of the biggest questions is why. And that answer starts being filled out. The more they find out about this money that Sarah found in her parents' house at Avon.

That's next time. If you or someone you know are experiencing suicidal thoughts, substance use or any other mental health crisis, please call or text. The 988 suicide and crisis lifeline.

You'll reach a trained crisis counselor for free 24 hours a day, seven days a week. You can also go to 988lifeline.org. Bridge of lies is a production of ABC audio and 2020 hosted by me, Judy Chang, produced by Sabrina Fang, Audre Maustec,

and Camille Peterson. Fact checking by Annelisa Linder. Tracy Samuelson is our story editor. Our supervising producer is Sasha Aslanian, music and mixing by Evan Biola.

Special thanks to Katie Dendos, Janice Johnston, Joseph Diaz, Avery Brook, and Michelle Margulus.

Josh Cohen is our director of podcast programming,

"Amen McNiff" is our executive producer.

β€œAn on-use season of The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives”

is now streaming on Hulu and Luan Disney+.

The mom talk has just been blowing up.

β€œWhitney and Jen are on dancing with the stars.”

Taylor is about to throw it.

Saying that out loud is crazy. Like that is huge.

β€œBut all the cool opportunities could close apart.”

It's causing issues in everyone's marriage. My whole world is falling apart right now. It's chaos. Watch the Hulu original series. The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

Streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers, turn to apply.

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