SantaCon: From Burning Man Founders to Federal Fraudsters (w. filmmaker Seth Porges)

This is exactly right. [MUSIC]

This season on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Hanner,

we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clarke. When like young people come off to me and they want to be that tool, whatever.

“And my first thing is always, can you think of anything else?”

[LAUGHTER] That you can do rather big. Because for today, do that. David O'Yellowo. I love this podcast, whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction or

you just go straight for the gods. Dennis Leary, Gaiton Moderato from Stranger Things. Santa Mojo, Camilla Morone, Carrie Kenny Silver, and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[MUSIC] For everyone who only listens to us, please check out our YouTube channel, what we interview Hungarian filmmaker Aaron Tymar about the Hungarian election, and the impact of documentary had on the outcome. We are going to talk about some very serious themes on the show today.

So if you are the victim of violence, sexual assault, police seek out these resources, we're going to listen them on the screen. [MUSIC] Welcome to Brief Recess, I'm Michael Foot. I'm a listen, Albert.

Today, we're going to have some birthday reflections. We're going to talk about Melissa's run-in with a former boss, Justice for Ursula, in the Little Mermaid, three types of hugs, Pambondi's, no showed for her subpoena. We're going to talk about Bubblegate with Lindsey Graham's Bubble Wall,

and interview with Seth Porges talking about Santa Con, and we're going to say about how it is. The CEO who just got arrested, and I'm going to answer all your for Ricky D. Key, nasty emails from my DMs, and a little bit of a confessional in there to this week.

Oh, that's right, yeah. It was good. Stick around, citrus down. [MUSIC] You got like a dirty martini with and another one.

Yeah, I've never had a martini.

Really? Well, I guess it'll really knock you on your ass if you start having martinis. Although, you know what I'm kind of really into now. So I was like this during the pandemic.

I started making old-timey cocktails. Oh, yeah.

“Because it was nothing else to do, but drunk, right?”

So I mean, in my wrong leg. Remember when we faced time to listen? Okay, everyone, during the pandemic, we got on a, we, we had a daily check-in with Alyssa. We did.

Alyssa was one of the first people who got COVID in New York. First of all, let me just say this about Alyssa. Who, you know, love her? Alyssa? Alyssa's our most chaotic friend.

Yes, and Alyssa was always sick. Yeah. Always always sick.

She was always sick, and Alyssa and I shared an office.

And it's March 1st 2020. And I used to always say to her, "Get the hell out of here." Because she'd be like, "Yeah!" Coughing up along, and she's like, "No, I'm fine, I'm fine." But then...

You're reading about COVID. Right, and I'm, "Oh, yeah." And you're like, "Huh, this bitch next to me keeps coughing." Keep coughing. I wonder if it's anything-

Got a fever, and it's still like, "Bleery-eyed in the office." She's like, "Well, it's just a dry cough." And a fever. And it's my throat.

And boils. And so we had things. So when she got COVID, it really was. It was like her and Tom Hanks. Yeah.

We didn't know anyone who had COVID personally in our lives. And so we were, we set a daily check-in with her. And I mean, this is not my, my lawyer to tell. But she went into lockdown with someone. I got that.

She was like in the process of breaking up with. She was like, "I feel like a lot of people got there. But two weeks, the sport is just poor girl." It was like, "And it was awful." Yeah.

And so we had a daily check-in. We didn't like him anyway, though. Yeah, we didn't. No, he was, we were all, we were all on team. Whatever his name was.

And so, but we had this daily check-in with her. And during the pandemic, we faced her at one point. And her air conditioner had exploded. Yeah. She was shooting out this orange liquid.

It's like this goo. Yeah. Yes. It was like Ghostbusters. Like, hellish yuck, and we are, yeah.

It was crazy. And we were like, yeah. And she was like, "What am I? I bet you I still have the pictures." I was like, "You can't have a phone up."

Because she was the cheapest. I'm brought to the church. I was like, "What do I do?" "What do you guys think this is?" And I showed it to Andre.

And he was like, "That looks really bad." Yeah, no shit. So, that looks really bad. And it turned out the neighbors. Air conditioner upstairs was leaking on to hers and resting.

That's what it was.

“That's what it was because it looked thicker.”

It looked like a spastic. There's the viscosity too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a quick sidebar. We're going to get into what's going on in our personal lives.

I'm pregnant with twins. Congratulations, Mazel.

Because it is the first day of torus season.

And also my birthday. Happy birthday, Michael. For 20, yep, that's right. And your birthday is in two days, right? Birthday on Wednesday. And Michael, tell everybody how old you are.

Old enough, 38. But I'm in a lie and say 32, I think. Why? Because I want to redo what I did when I was 32. You can't, though.

It's, this is my life. We've only got a couple years left on Earth. It's like, you look a couple more years to tell the bunker. Let me say 11. Into one learning paradise.

The bunker under the ballroom at the white house that they're building. If you could go back and redo things, would you? Absolutely. And I shame on anyone who says they wouldn't. Because you all know you would.

For real.

Yeah, there's so many things.

“I mean, I think I would sled it up more.”

I think that's what I want. Is that what you would do? Absolutely, yes. Yeah, when I was like young in my early twenties, I was so, I was like scared of stuff for anxious or didn't want to.

I don't know, it was like a freight of anxiety to know what I mean. Like I was like, let me not do too much because I don't want to get anxious later. And I think now that I'm on the other side of that, I'm like, I wish I didn't live in fear of anxiety.

Okay, you know, like, yeah, yeah. In so many ways, and also, I think around the pandemic too, because I kept breaking bones. And I was like, I'm afraid I'm going to break another bone. Let me not.

But you know, it's just like that fear of being anxious or having a breakdown later. It's like looking back, I had to break down anyway. I might as well have turned the party. I might as well have been on the pole. I should have gotten out my, my pleasers, I could have been.

I think I love more fun. I wish that I had told more people to stuff it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I think what I think about,

even like stuff that happened to me when I was like 16, you know what I mean? I like I wish that I would have. Yeah. Already had my voice.

Yeah.

“To be like, I'll never forget one time I was with go ahead.”

No, I was just going to say, but now that you know that you wish you told more people to go get bent. Mm-hmm. Do you feel like you tell people more now? Because I do.

I used to, I'm making up for that last time. Yeah, I, you know, I think I let people know that I don't care what they think. I think that's beautiful. No, I thought I'd like. I think that's a beautiful one.

I love that. But like, okay, well, that's Emily Dickinson poem. That is so beautiful. That was, that was actual poetry. Thank you so much.

No, you're welcome. Thanks, everybody. Yeah, that was, that was beautiful. Yeah. I think that, okay, so I had a birthday party this weekend.

And there was a situation I won't get into, but there was some drama at my birthday party. That's someone else brought with them. They loaded up their merry pop and suitcase that you can stuff with all sorts of bullshit.

And they said, let me bring it to my coolest party. I know. And so knowing what I know about myself, where I do wish I told people to take it and shove it somewhere, and trying to make up for last time, I did say something.

Did you? Yeah, I did. Okay, because we were talking about it. Yeah, I said something. Okay.

And I said, I know what you did. Yeah. And you were messy. Yeah. And I need to let you know that that's not okay.

And I don't like you because of it. And then I blocked them. Okay. I don't want to hear your response. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is something that I speak to my therapist a lot about.

“Of my, my sort of unquenching thirst to understand why people do things, right?”

Like, and I don't know, and I don't know, and I don't know why I need to know, but like, I would just want to know what were you thinking? What were you thinking about? Yeah. What were you hoping to achieve?

What did you hope to learn? What were you hoping to do?

For people listening, basically someone

came to the party and was just kind of messy. Yeah. And it was, and I was just like, and you're right. It is like, what were you thinking? And, but also, but also potentially very hurtful.

Yes. Right. And so that's the thing. Like, is the intention to be hurtful? Are you just nosy?

Are you, and for me, I don't need to know, but I will project. My projection is you don't have anything else going on. Mm. You're so bored or you're so unhappy with yourself or your life and your choices. Mm.

That you've got to actually go out of your way to strum up something interesting. Take this opportunity because you've got nothing else going on. And that's where I say, and this did take a lot of healing and a lot of ketamine therapy and a lot of regular therapy. Right.

To be able to say, I feel bad for that person, but I am also going to tell them what I think and how I felt and it feels really good to let it go and move on.

and their feeling is, you know what, I feel really bad for that person.

Do you legitimately feel bad for that person? Because I tell you.

“I don't feel bad for, I say, I think I pity them.”

I'm like, God, it sucks to be that person, but I'm not like, oh, my heart breaks for this person. No, no. Because these people that I'm feeling that way about are have so much agency and privilege that I'm like, I'm saving the feeling bad for my clients who've been in detention centers

for four years. I'm not feeling bad for like a rich white person from Brooklyn who comes to a party and like, start shit. You know, like, I'm not going to save my like pity points for that for other people who really are suffering and have no agency.

But I will, I will look and be like, oh, yeah, it sucks to be that person, glad I'm not them. And like, kind of move on. I am a little bit more glib with it. Gotcha.

But yeah, I don't know. What do you think? I don't feel bad for anybody, like, I mean, I feel, I mean, in the sense of like, obviously

I feel bad for people that had had a tragedy, I feel bad for people who are ill or have

experienced some trauma in their life, right? Yes. But I don't feel bad or have empathy or pity for somebody who's because there's messy, just being messy and sort of gossipy and nosy, which is, which is okay because we're all out.

You can all be that way. Yeah. We're not just that. Listen, I say this all the time, uh, Magaline Joel Malbrant raised a nosy chick. Oh, yeah.

For sure. You know, yeah. But I don't feel bad for people like that because, again, it's the intent behind the messiness. If you're just met being met, it's like, key key, then fine.

Yeah. But if you're being messy to be hurtful. Yeah. Then that's the end. Right.

Yeah. That's the mental off. Yeah. I do not feel bad for you and may you have the life that you deserve. And the reason why I say things like that is not for them.

It's for me. My karma. You inspire me because you've told me stories about how you've run into like a former boss on the street. I did.

And my favorite. And you said, I want you to know. I did. I felt great about it. She was complaining.

“So this person that I used to work for, she was like, what's that really bad?”

Check from the little Ursula. She was like, Urs, left a little mermaid. Yeah. Really? It's a complex female character.

Okay. Fine. But there was contract. There was breach of contract. She was the victim of death by ship.

They like drove a boat into her. Okay. I don't know if that fits the crime. She stole her musical theater kid singing voice. Like, I'm sorry.

That's bad. Death penalty. That's capital punishment. Sure. Get the expert on death penalty on the phone.

I'm sorry. They steer a boat into her. They skewered her without a trial. You want to call Karina? Yeah, call Karina.

Get her on the phone. I want to talk to Karina. I want to talk to Karina. I want to talk to her about whether or not this is a just death sentence or Ursula. I mean, sure anyway.

What size woman of color shoes purple? I'm sorry, constantly persecuted in the hip or sea realm. Well, now you got me feeling bad for Ursula and I didn't five seconds ago. Old boss. We hate her.

It's really awful. And the thing about it is, she could not keep a body and you know how I feel about people like that. What do I mean when I say you can't keep that? You can't keep a body.

People are quitting. You're firing them. You can't keep a body. You cannot keep a body.

And it's people will always say, like, oh, well, someone's so quit.

Oh, someone's so gutfire. Oh, someone's so this at a certain point, if you've said that, more than two or three times. It's you. The call coming from inside the house.

And she was so hideous of a human being that the temp agency stopped sending people to her. Oh, that's crazy because temp agencies in New York, they take 50% of whatever the person is. Yeah.

So they're willing to take a big cut. They're like, we're finding these temps on the side of the west side of our way, called up in a ball, tossed out the window. We had more than one temp, leave at lunch and not come back. I'm not kidding.

Not even make it to five. Not even make it to five. Wow. She said, I'm going to go on the off peak train and head home at lunch, fuck this. And so I'm going to list a ran into this old boss after I did a list of left.

And I, and, you know, we work cordial, and how are you, and I said, I'm fine. How are you, and she's like, you know, I'm still looking for an assistant. And I said to her, and, you know, and the bravery came from a source of, I don't give a shit anymore because I don't work for you, you can't do anything to me anyway. Right.

“And I said to her, have you ever thought that the problem is you?”

And I wasn't mean, I was just like, I mean, if you think about it, how many assistants

And I said, you know, someone so the temp agency has stopped sending people to you.

“I was like, is there any, is there any part of you that understands that maybe it's you?”

And she said to me, look, just right in my eyes, and was this like, well, you know, I am quite exacting bitch. What? What? You're like, and, and so, and it because I had been her assistant at one point, I also

had access to her email, no, no, no, no, no, and I would see the emails that she was getting from her daughter ripping her, like her daughter ripping her a new one. Oh, my God. Her ex has been called one time and was like, where is she? Oh, so you think that these assistants were her punching bag because she had no control

anywhere else in her life. I mean, I also think, I think the reason why like her daughter was sending her nasty messages and her ex husband was like calling it because there was something wrong with her and and and because I'm a nosey bitch, I had looked into her and she had had a very sort of a high-powered prominent job and she was sued.

Right. Wow. Do you really do want to know why? You and your therapist are doing that work, because you want to know why I brought a lot of things.

Yeah. I do. Like, what is, why? Like, I even have a little, well, ex, so like, what do we think is the matter with the president?

Yeah. What is wrong with him? Yeah.

I want to comport himself the way that he does, the way that he speaks to people and

the things that he does. And I get it. Some people like, oh, I like him because he shoots straight from the hip and there's no bullshit with him. He's insane.

And the stuff that he's shooting period, right? Like, there's a philtrum. Well, we know that this country loves their guns. So where's it? We stay shooting.

“I think it's time for a what's going on in the home.”

What is going on in the home? What's going on in the home? Oh, what didn't, you know, my theory. Nothing went on in that home. No, like, about the hugs.

Okay. Melissa has a theory that there's two kinds of people in the world. There are three kinds of people. Three? Yeah, there are three, because there are three different kinds of hugs.

Okay. So Melissa's theory is that the hug, by the way, the hug is a metaphor. Okay. Like, it's not actually hugs. Okay.

We're going to touch now. Melissa's a theory that you're either get too many hugs. Yep. You got too many hugs in your childhood. You didn't get enough hugs in your childhood.

Or what's the third one? Just enough? In appropriate. In appropriate hugs? Yeah.

You've amended it since the last time.

Yeah, but it's always been.

It's always been the three. And it's only around for. No, you know, this is, no, this is the first thing you did. You know, I'm not going to let you out. Yeah.

It took me out. And it's not a long one. Yeah. But yeah. And I mean, and I just think that either you were constantly coddled and told

that you were special and that you could do anything. And then you've gone out into the world. Yeah. And you think that that's actually true when in reality, you're only really special to your parents as it should be, right?

But in the world, you're in regular like the rest of us, especially special. You can't be, not everyone can be a special snow. No, not everybody is special. Yeah. Specialist special.

Yeah. Most of us are just regular. And that's okay. That's okay. It's very nice.

Yeah. It's un-eventful. Right. What's the other one? And then to not enough.

Not enough hugs is neglect, right? Like you were not told that you were loved. You were even your parents and think that you were special, you were like, and ignored. I think that that is not enough hugs.

“In appropriate hugs, I think, is there's either some S.A. or physical.”

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what that is. And I think all of these experiences, you go out into the world and you project that.

Yeah. I was definitely too many hugs. I knew that right away. Special. I was special.

And you know what? They were fucking right. Were they? Yeah. Thank you.

Special. Snowflake. You know, many times I had to repeat 9th grade math. That's how special. Three times.

12th grade. I had a 9th grade math tutor. And he would come. I would didn't eat lunch for all of high school. He didn't eat lunch.

Because I had to go to the extra help math tutor. Um, do you know if you have dyscalculia? We didn't have those. Those were special. I know.

But now do you think they're probably? Yeah. Party trick. We're at will be like, what's 12 times 7? And I'm like, I don't know, he'll be like, what's 12 minus 7?

I don't know. And I'm like, get out the abacas honey. I don't know. It's not going to, yeah. Yeah.

Any kind of a math question, like, I just yell it out to Andre. Yeah. He's a better. Way really? Yeah.

He's got like that. He's just a beautiful mind. He's a little, yeah. That's why married him. He's geeky smart.

Let's get into your algorithm as shown. Let's talk about all the wicked and wild, freaky, geeky things that are happening on

Pam Bond didn't show up for her subpoena.

She was out to dinner, though. She was missing. Did she see that? Which. Where'd she?

She was out to dinner. I don't know. In the DC area, some random person recorded her. She was smiling. Hi.

You guys know how much I hate DC. We covered it last week.

“I've never eaten a meal in DC or I was like, really?”

Yeah. No. Interesting. When I go to DC, it's-- Are you in and out?

I'm in and out, and it's also like, I'm only in the corporate areas. Okay. I know I'm not in a cute little Bethesda neighbor, you know, I'm not like, yeah.

And then I went to this one drag show that was at like the Hamburger Mary's.

And it was like at the diner and DuPun circle. And that was really fun. I saw someone leap off a table in land and a split. Like the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, have you seen that? But those women, sorry, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, yeah.

So I was obsessed with, there was a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader documentary. It was a few episodes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, we talked about this in there.

All in it. They all go into debt. Because they're not getting paid. They hardly pay them anything. All these women have real jobs outside of the cheerleading thing, right?

My God. They go to appearances. They don't get paid for them. I can't believe, and it's also like, it's like they don't have the money. These sports are owned by billionaires. Yeah.

“And when they were like, whoa, why don't you pay them?”

And they're like, well, it's really about the honor of being a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader. And more honorable than a paycheck. As far as I'm concerned, nothing. What's more honorable than health care? I think, you know, and they practice almost every night.

Yeah, and they're kicking in boots. That planter fasciitis for sure. You know, there's going to be a bunion. What does it call? It might be called Thunder Road, but I don't know.

I can't remember, but there's a routine that their fame is for. Okay. And they all jump up and they all land directly into a split. And then so, and after certain amount of time, there's a lot of wear and tear on the body.

Sure, yeah. All these young women are having hip replacement surgery. When they retire, because you can only be a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader. There's a few years. Like, I think maybe six years or something.

And at the end, you have to have to retire. And usually at the end of that, these women are having hip replacement surgery at 25. Yeah. Wow. And it's on their dime, like, yes.

It's a grilling. I mean, it's a grilling career. Yeah, yeah.

“I think that's why the rockets, I call them the rickets, they are unionized.”

Yeah, they had to. They have to unionize because they do. Eight shows a day for the month of December. They can only do so many. I met one one.

She was telling me she takes an ice bath every night. And because of the union, they have to address them as ladies. Okay. Collectively, they say ladies. And then they all.

As opposed to girls. Yeah. They have to be addressed collectively as ladies for the union contract. Yeah. They'll Broadway union contracts are actually really freaking weird.

Okay. Anyway. She didn't show up, she was out eating. And smiling. If there's anybody in this world who does not deserve to smile about shit.

And if you know that if she's out in DC smiling, eating, it was like a setup for a photo up. You know what I mean? Like it wasn't, or like, you know what I mean? Like if she's out and she probably in her and make up, it wasn't an accident, she

tipped off the paparazzi that she was there. But Robert Garcia's going to sippin her. So explain to him to preceding. Okay. So explain to us.

She doesn't show up. She doesn't show up. And so they sorry. They subpoenaed her. Yes.

She didn't show up. So what is there next course of actual? The thing they did immediately was everyone took to the internet to say, we are going to hold her in contempt. Those are threats.

There's no like actual active thing that happens. Yeah. And the committee votes to start contempt proceedings. So the committee of that subpoenaed her would vote. We wanted to do contempt.

And then the house has to vote. We're going to hold her in contempt. And then it moves to like a criminal proceeding. So that's when the criminal charges would hit. So we're a couple steps away from, you know, a purplock, but it's like moving forward.

There's no reason why Robert Garcia and Jasmine Crocket would stop, would just like threaten and not. And they have the votes in the committee.

The committee issued the subpoena in the first place.

It's not like, but the real battle will happen in the house whenever one has to do it out. So for Pam Bondi, for her, what's the best case scenario and what's the worst case scenario for her? I'm like, what's she's hiding and how, how damning her testimony is going to be for herself,

If we're just talking about Pam, like, what did she neglect to do?

That is going to come out in this subpoena, right? Because the subpoena you're under oath, you cannot lie or you're subject to perjury if you do. So what is she not saying? What is she sitting on that they're going to ask her about that she's not going to be

“able to lie about, or she'll face, I mean, low-chem one to prison for perjury, right?”

Like, people do time for perjury, it's like a real thing. So what is she willing to go to prison for if she wants to lie and cover it up, right? So there's a big, it's hard to answer that question. She's a big unknown, what doesn't she know, or what do we not know that she knows? So depends on how bad it is, this is kind of what it comes down to.

But I'm interested to see what happens with the house and how they do get out because we're coming up on the midterms. Sure. A lot of those folks are going to be up for reelection.

So do they want this on their voting record that they voted not to bring criminal charges

against Pam Bondi, or will it look really good? Because right now, I mean, the president's approval rating is a part of the toilet, yeah. So not, and they're losing special, the Republican Party's losing special elections around the country, anything come up on your feet this week that you want to cover? So, you know, I've been trying really hard to avoid the AI vegetable.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, and so, friends, please stop sending me things because I'm trying really people randomly. I'm also just seeing this one. Please stop sending me things.

I don't want any more. It's too much. It's too much.

“They're getting, they're just getting worse, right?”

Yeah. They're running eye to things too. The AI is like breeding with itself. It's like, yeah, it's helped perpetuate it. So, do you, this is really depressing, but this is what came up for me.

Do you remember this French woman, Giselle Pélico? Yeah. So she's the woman, so she is the woman who, they were, they live in France. Her husband for like five or so years was essaying her, drugging her and essaying her and inviting other men to do the same thing, taking photos and pictures and stuff.

So in the news a few weeks ago, there was this essay academy that came up and it's basically a website. I went to the website to just to see what it was and it's basically men, trading ideas of how to do this to their partners. Oh, God.

Really? And you know, and the thing is, like we all know, once you start with that stuff, you just get more and more of it. Yes.

And it just, you know, we know, obviously not all men, but it just always feels like always

a man. Yeah. And it definitely feels like this world hates women. Yeah. I, you know what I mean?

Yes, of course. Yeah.

“And I think that there is this, the internet has been great at in photuring.”

It's also been really, it's, it's created a forum for creeps to connect with each other. Yeah. For sure. Because I wonder how in the before, because I think that these people have always existed.

Right. I wonder in the before times, what were they doing when they're putting as a newspaper? Like, well, were there, like, codewords? Yes. Was it like creeps would find each other in their neighborhood and like, can that, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it is one of these things where I don't, like, what do we do about that? I mean, obviously shut down these websites. Yeah.

A hundred percent. But I mean, the thing is it's like, you get rid of one and another one pops up this place. Right. And I think that people are getting more and more.

Devious. I think they're getting smarter, unfortunately. And I also think that people are getting a lot of dog whistles and signals from literally, the Epstein files and how that is not being prosecuted is nothing happening there. Right.

And everything is just getting swept under the rug and everyone's moving on. People are, I feel like it's possible that people are learning from that and seeing, like, oh, well, if no one is really condemning this, who's it say that I? Right. I'm like, there's this kind of, like, signal coming from the White House, that this

is okay and tolerable. Yeah. There is a really interesting documentary out about a cult that one of the hosts of an exactly right show, Trust me, her mom infiltrated a cult, a Mormon cult. Yeah.

I've watched it this weekend. You watched it? Yeah. Is it good? It's really good.

Okay. What's it called? Trust me. Trust me. Trust me.

The false prophet. Yeah. It's really interesting.

And I think we should talk about on this show because maybe next episode, we can cover some

of the women went to prison. And I think we could probably cover that. I'm talking about that. Yeah. There was another documentary that I had seen.

It was kind of similar. There was called "Stay Sweet." and it was about LDS and how the leader, like his whole thing was to know to get the girls to do what he wanted.

“He was just like, "You have to stay sweet."”

No. So disgusting. It's so creepy. It's that legal. Well, it's not.

They're like, "Oh, it's a church. It's okay." Yeah. But it's not legal. But they're getting away with it.

And especially I think in any kind of community where they are so incredibly insulated, it's much harder to figure out what's going on. It's very like underground. Right. Yeah.

100% so.

Always in some rural place.

Yeah. And they do their best to stay away from people. Yes. Right. So they're very isolated.

And it's by design. What? This is what we need TMZ to do as well.

“Because TMZ is photographing politicians out in the streets.”

We need them to also go after the LDS church. Have them go and do. You know what I mean? It'll just be hard. Yes.

There's a lot of photos of... Oh. Let's see. Lindsey Graham had Disney World with a bubble wand. No.

TMZ, like, someone, people are just sending photos of Congressmen and senators to TMZ to shame them while they're out on recess. The fact that they're not doing anything, they're not passing any bills. They're all like helping cover up. The opposite of your files, like every, like literally, everything.

But that's literally what people are sending in photos of senators to TMZ. So TMZ after 20 years. And the thing about it is, is that he looks, the only word that I can think of to describe the way that he looks is deaf. Right.

Like he just looks so... Yeah. He looks so ridiculous. Now people are going up to middle and they're like leaving chambers going back to their office and people can actually interview them because they're allowed to film and record.

Someone ran up to them and was like, "Do you have anything to say about the bubble wand?" Okay. It's like, "Pickly fed the bubble wand." I mean, ran for it. I like to scattered away.

It's so great.

“Do you have anything to say about the bubble wand Melissa?”

I'm just given a dirty look again. I'm so tired of these people. He literally to not vote on the government shutdown, on the Iran War, on the Epstein Files, and then to fuck off to Disney World and play with the bubble wand is like, "So it really is district 12, hunger games."

Like, it's feeling very bad.

Basically, you know, like, Fee is the announcer of the next presidential debate.

Um, what? Speaking of debauchery out in these streets, we have a special guest in the studio. Really excited. So we have with us today, friend of the pod, friend of the pod, supporters who you may remember him from the action, class action park documentary, where we talked about excited

I was. Melissa. About your childhood trauma. Yeah, I was. Talk about not enough hugs.

Um, totally. She was absolutely battered and bruised at action park, but let's, uh, anyway, he has a new documentary coming out about Santa Con. And we thought it would be cool to bring him on the show today to talk about it. To talk about it.

Santa Con, because it's in the headlines as of last week. Because, why? The CEO head of Santa Con, which I didn't realize was an actual organization. It's a nonprofit. It's a possible money to alcohol awareness.

Yeah, it's opposed to the funds raised are supposed to go towards some kind of a kid's something. So these men are busting their bones, barfing in the streets, taking a dump on my stoop, to raise money for children. I mean, why don't you make your gift on, make your recurring gift online and leave me

the pocket loan. Santa God is like, it's like a scourge, it's like so disgusting. And you know, it's one of those things where like you, you forget that it's happening. Yeah. Until it's happening.

And then you're in the middle of it. It reminds me of like the, like, the AI videos of the pubonic plague. Like where people are just sort of like lying in the streets, you know, like slowly dying. It's okay.

It was long enough ago. I can make fun of a plague, right? Like, I'm not going to get canceled for plague talk. No. Right?

But it might not be like my great great great great great great great, grandmother, actually had a lot of clunk, yeah, okay.

Um, okay. So I'm excited. We'll be back. We're going to do one under oath with Seth Porgis and we're going to talk about Santa Con and the new criminal charges for the CEO.

We're going to talk about his documentary, which I watched over the weekend. It was good. We'll get into it. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Brief Recess.

We're going to get into under oath. We're going to do a deep dive with our good friend of the podcast, Seth Porgis.

We're going to talk about Santa Con and your incredible documentary.

So welcome back. It's great to be here. Last time you were here, we were talking about people getting shredded up at action parts. Shareware.

And now we're going to talk about people getting shredded up at Santa Con. Absolutely. Different kind of shredded. Yeah, I did kind of shredded.

“I mean, I feel like someone's gotten flayed alive at Santa Con, right?”

I feel like there's been some serious injuries. I feel like I've witnessed them. I feel like I would know about this. And the problem with Santa Con's not to just immediately start complaining, but I'm a New Yorker.

Yeah. I'm a total yenta. The way that it springs up on you, like an edible, it hitches in the back of the weekend head when you least expect it. It's right when you're like, I'm going to go buy some Christmas ornaments or I'm going

to meet up with that friend or colleague for that holiday cocktail. And you just don't happen to pass through the East Village. Right. Like a direct correlation between how annoyed you will be by Santa Con and the likelihood you would have any idea when it's going to happen.

Yes. That's the thing. Because this is what has happened to me. Anytime I've encountered Santa Con, it's been completely by accident. Yes.

And then I'm like, fuck, today is it's a day. Yeah. Yeah. And at first you're like, okay, it's one Santa, they're going to work at Macy's. You don't know.

And then you see the other and you're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. What day is it? Yeah.

It's always the guy named Brian.

Yeah. So people for not who are not from New York who are watching or listening.

“Could you please explain briefly what Santa Con is?”

Yeah. So Santa Con, which doesn't just occur in New York, of course, New York's is the largest and most infamous of them is this incredible day, typically in kind of early December when up to tens of thousands of folks dress like St. Nick and invade New York City and just kind of have their way with the town.

The reputation of course whether or not is that they get a little the botchrist use the fact that they're all dressed the same and therefore fairly anonymous to kind of be their worse cells. The reputation is it's like, you know, 22 year olds from Hoboken for the most part. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Baby's first day drinking.

Yeah. That kind of thing. Yeah. People who may not necessarily be the best of holding your liquor.

But that's not what it always was.

“That's what so fascinating to me about the whole story.”

Yeah. So, I just made a movie called Santa Cone. You can check out some of it at SantaCone.com about the secret history of Santa Cone, you know, the most hated holiday in the world, which began as this very, very, very, very different thing.

And it was like this Frankenstein story where these guys create this thing totally lost control of it, disowned it and had to watch it mutate into whatever it is today. It is one of those things where, you know, it is a Frankenstein monster, right? And I watching the documentary, it starts out as sort of this like riot girl, anti-establishment, protesty kind of thing where it was like almost like a public art performance of like a group

of 20 friends who are best friends, just having a blast, like Santa, as really as a reaction to capitalism in the 90s, right, of the 90s commercials, everything is getting commodified. Christmas is for sale. And what really struck me about it when I was watching it was like, wow, it kind of became the thing that it was rejecting at its, at its infancy.

Like, they, these Santa's were just kind of wandering around the Pacific Northwest, San Francisco, cause in trouble, being debatrous and now it's become a ticket event sponsored by corporations and brought to you by, yeah, I mean, I was sort of joked at everything eventually. It was actually become Santa Cone. And the reason the story jumped out to me was because I saw it as this like, it's

the life cycle of all ideas, right? Yes. You create something that masses take hold of it, turn it into something else, and you watch it before your eyes transform. And yeah.

To me, that was like, wow, Santa Cone just feels like it's about like everything in this world that we, you know, in shitification, like, the way systems get corrupted and manipulated. And I just couldn't stop thinking about this and it's like, my goodness, like Santa Cone began as this one thing and it turned into something else. And then meeting the people who create Santa Cone and then they're very tortured relationship

with what it become was so fascinating to me because if I were them and what my initial thought about what their response to modern Santa Cone would be, absolutely discussed and

And I think what their attitude is way more interesting and mature because, you know, we

can see the things we love, maybe even the things we created, the world around us transform. And what do you do? Do you just get really angry and you're in for days gone by and say, if this and burn it all down or do you say, all right, this thing isn't for me anymore, that's cool. I'm going to be over here doing something else cool.

And that was their attitude.

“I was so blown away by that because right now, I think a lot of people just experience”

the world and they're like, I don't get this anymore. And the easy response is just to be really angry pissed off and miserable. And instead of that, you can also be like, you know what, I'm just going to continue to try to build new things and that really, I love that. Yeah.

Let me ask you, when you decide that you were going to do this, was there anybody who had been a part of it originally, who was just like, you know, I don't want to talk to you about it? You know, we had a lot of people in our film, kind of all the early creators and some of them were more camera shy than others. But I think, you know, these were all a tight-knit group

of friends. It was a group called The Coffee Society. Yeah. Yeah.

It was sort of these like anarcho, prankster, post-dada, folks who would just basically

do random stuff. And none of it was created with the intent of maybe ever happening again, or being a business. Right. And or any of this sort of stuff, but every once in a while they would create something that for some reason or another just kind of like, took off.

So they also created, burning it, as you guys know. And a very similar trajectory happening in Burning Man is different. Starts types of people, start to come to your event. Yep. The identity of the event changes for better or for worse. I'm not going to pass judgment on that over there.

And these guys, you know, they sort of saw their baby change. Did people, you know, there's a couple of folks who maybe would have liked to go on camera, just did a scheduling or logistics.

“You can never get everybody. But I mean, but I think we got everybody really well.”

Yeah. Yeah. And you're making this movie. Right? I mean, what were some of the challenges, right? I mean, you, when I was watching it, I was like, wow, he really had to film it a lot of different places. You attended Santa Con in New York.

Oh, yeah. Before you were doing this, had you been ever been a Santa Con participant? No, I mean, like you, I had stepped outside and then realized it was Santa Con. I guess, like, in a way, you know, like street theater, the folks on the street are part of the performance, whether they like it or not. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And reaction is part of your act. And honestly, yeah, that's like a baking that really drew me in about the archival footage

of the early Santa Cons wasn't the Santa's themselves for necessarily acting that different.

They're always a little naughty. You know, it's the people around them because no way

they've ever seen this before. Right. And so the faces have this like sense of joy and joy. You are much more amused sort of excited about it. And I feel like if you were to do it now. Yeah.

“I've seen that the joke is old, I've seen this before.”

But it's not just the joke is old, but also like, oh, this is just going to be disgusting. We know what this is and we don't like what this is exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And so, you know, making this film, what really made the film possible was this archival footage. You know, this movie started because I ran into my old friend Scott Biel at a bar,

like December 2021, maybe, and so now Santa Con comes up. And he kind of looked a bummed out. I'm like, what's up? He's like, yes, Santa Con is coming up. I'm like, I know it's the worst going to lock myself up that day. He's like, not Seth, you don't get it. I was there when my friends and I started this thing and what it's become.

I just can't wrap my heads around. And I know this guy for like more than a decade. I'm like, like, pause rewind. What are you talking about? Wow. And he started telling me how he and his friends started Santa Con.

He's also been involved with Burning Man's creation and how this group, the Coffee Society, was also the real life inspiration for Fight Club and Project Mayhem. Yeah. And I was like, wait, this is crazy. All of these cultural touchpoints, the same people.

And then he said the thing that like really blew my mind, which is that he personally had video recorded several of the early years. Oh my god. And he offered to show me this footage. And it really was like the entirety of the early Santa Con years from beginning to end.

Come to life. And it was so immersive and supportive. And I felt like I was traveling back in time to the 1990s. Nobody's got their cell phones out right? It was very cool.

That's really cool. If you haven't seen it. And it's going to be premiering. Well, yeah. I mean, so we even playing it at Film Festival.

Still thinking out wider distribution. Hopefully it'll be out in a place. The world can see it. Yeah. The next Christmas.

I got a chance to watch it. Thanks to Seth. But it's the archival footage really makes it. You get to see. You felt like you were there with them.

Yeah. You really felt like you were a part of this group of friends. I mean, it's, it was very well structured. And I could see you absolutely manipulating it from behind the scenes to make it really. The interviews with people.

Yeah. We're just like some thoughts. They were, they were so good. And I loved seeing the reactions of the people who were like trying to explain to us.

What they had been thinking that they were doing this.

It was just like, well, that's not what it is anymore. And also how they don't necessarily all agree. Like, to some of them, it might have been like this protesting of commercialism and capitalism Christmas. But the other is it was just the point was that it had no meaning.

It was just a absurdism. Yes. The one story of the time.

“The one Santa, they went to, I think, Portland.”

Yeah. For, or maybe LA. And he wore the same Santa outfit for like three days. Yeah. So after sending it on fire.

And set it on fire. Yeah. It melted to a skin. And he wore it for three or four days. Yeah.

And got on the plane and blew home in the sand. Well, that's the great Reverend Al. And so he would do this thing where at the end of Portland in 1996, he stood on stage at this event.

And he just basically says, I'm so filled with Christmas spirit that I just might explode.

And then he sets up a bunch of cheap fireworks. Firecrackers in his Santa suit. And the whole thing just like goes a place in this indoor venue. All caught on tape. He really need to stay away from cheap Chinese produce suits that are made out of plastics.

And it just melted to a skin.

“And he just flies back to LA with the Santa suit melted to a skin.”

Because why not? And then there's, there's this one other gentleman in it who was a poster worker. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He was my favorite.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The dogs barking because I'm laughing so out. My husband's in the other room confused about what's going on.

And there's a poster worker who in the 90s for those of you who don't know poster workers were this series of mass murders series of mass murders. And that's where the term going postal comes from. I feel like, I feel like it's so funny to me. Like they were shooting.

Yeah. 90s. Yeah. And so this guy was a poster worker. And he seemed to be, he reveled in the reputation.

Yes. Yeah. He would really lean into it. Yeah. Don't make me shoot.

Yeah. Don't make me shoot. Yeah. Don't make me shoot. Yeah.

Don't make me shoot. Yeah. Don't make me shoot. Yeah. Don't make me shoot.

Yeah. Don't make me shoot. Yeah. Don't make me shoot. Yeah.

Don't make me shoot. Yeah. Don't make me shoot. Yeah. Don't make me shoot.

Yeah. wouldn't fire him from the goddamn postal service because they're free. He's going to come back and kill everybody. Oh my goodness, I was dying during that, but I cried during your documentary. I literally cried at the Santa Con movie because it ended up being like a really heartfelt touching story about friendship and friends throughout the decades. And I was like bringing book and you to come on this show to talk with me and my best friend for a million years. And it was just like it was just like very

touching like you really brought a full circle around to this group of friends and what they started and I think it could have quickly become a capitalismist bad and like this is the diesel pitfalls of capitalism and how it's sort of gobble stuff everything and like attacks everything that's pure. But I think that's like a really

“obvious read like I don't think you need to tell us that. And I think it was in and it up being not to”

exploit like for people. But there was this really shocking surprising emotional thread through it that not to do any spoilers. But that was really unexpected for me. I appreciate that. Yeah. So that's surprising for you as well. To be honest. Yeah. I mean, you know, something happened during filming that we didn't expect that sort of played out. And it's a movie at larger takes place in the 90s. More really even thinking about like present day. Yeah. But something happened to one of our main

characters that really recontextualize everything and allowed us, I think, really make the movie about something different. Yeah, you know. And yeah, it was kind of amazing and we were really glad variable to capture that. But as a documentary filmmaker, you have to be ready for that, right? Yes. And being open to it is what's going to make the film great rather than good and just taking that and using that as a part of the story. Just like really drove it forward in a new direction. You

have to be ready for that kind of stuff. And you also have to be, you know, cognizant about whatever emotions might be out there and how raw they might be for people involved. You know,

because it's always a fine line about wanting to capture things without putting people out there

in a way that may be later, well, they won't love or she'll come to what was. Yeah. I mean, I mean, this is like a more fun version example. But there was someone who was not on camera in this documentary. Who was talking about sleeping with a guy in a sand as soon as she just took the same point so far. Yeah, she did not want to be shown on camera. Yeah, she wanted to tell her story, but not sort of be the story. Yeah. And I'm willing to turn on the record today and say that

it was me. Yes. I knew it. That even there, it's like we can put the name down and it's not like you know who they are. It's a way of funnier if you just say anonymous and, you know, like although there were like so many little things that just were like so they just sort of were

And so you were like, it's him, shaped it. We did more than one interview with him and in the first

interview he looks like Santa has his big beard and then we interviewed him again and there's no beard and I'm trying to footage people and people were like, wait, that's the same size. Yeah. Yeah. Like you literally can't tell and then they get to end the movie. I just realized that was the same guy. He's like one of our main characters. So we had the label like, yeah, it's the same guy. He shaped his beard. But it like it makes his funnier. Yeah. It's a little bit of attitude kind of

spring for you. So we brought you on the show, but I was like, we got to get Seth because Santa Calm was in the headlines. And it's April. It is. It's not, it's not Christmas. Christmas is in here and Santa comes in the news because the CEO was just brought up on fraud charges and I wanted to talk to you about it. I wanted to, do you, are you aware of stuff and stuff and build as he's allegedly misled attendees and businesses marketing Santa Con and misused the funds that were supposed

“to be going towards the non-profit of Santa Con, which is supposed to be helping children?”

Kids, I think. Who knows. I mean, I like, yeah, I'm aware. I mean, this is the thing about this and this is like such a distinction that is really important to make is the original people when they

started at Santa Con. It was never a business. It was never a trademark. It was ever a piece of IP,

it was ever brand. It was an idea. And it came of age kind of when the internet became the internet as well. No, and it spread. And as it spread, people said, oh, I can start my own Santa Con and they did. So Santa Con started popping up all over the world as the original creators would, you know, create this open, open thing that anybody could do. You know, by design, they were they never wanted control of it. But part of seeding controlled the world is accepting that

sometimes the world will do weird things with your ideas, right? Yeah. And so the, you know, this Santa Con and this organization and this organizer, of course, have nothing to do with the original folks who did. Just want to make sure that's very, very clear here. And so this, this is about the New York City Santa Con, which is again, the biggest, the most infamous, the largest, what most people think of when they, when they think of Santa Con. Right. And yeah, the headlines,

you know, when the press release coming from the FBI, which I guess, this is the biggest thing they have to worry about these days for some reason. You know, it's like, yeah, he, you know, this guy allegedly creates some like shell companies and was funneling some money. But a thing that like, a bunch of, I was on to really funny texts with some of the original Santa's after this happen. They had some really fun emojis this time. After this, you know, I don't know, the arms

up in the air, like, what the hell kind of kind of emojis going on. And, you know, one of them texting something, which is like super true, which is like, there's a lot of scammy nonprofits out there. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. A ton. You don't need to create shell companies and funnel money around, just pay yourself a giant salary, like most of them do. Yeah. And that's true. It's like weird. It's like, I don't know what this guy there didn't do. I actually don't know him personally. I'm not going

to like accuse him of anything. But if these allegations are true, it's like, come on, dude, just do whatever the other scammy nonprofit doesn't pay yourself a giant salary. You don't need to go through all these machinations. Exactly. Yeah. And I was just, I thought the same thing when I saw that I was like, this is just such a splashy headline. Yeah. This wasn't even malfeasance of an extraordinary

“degree. It's like a million dollar. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Which, I mean, honestly, the thing to”

the person power that it took to investigate this at the FBI, I'm a spin extraordinary. It's like, we're making no judgments about the FBI's priorities, right? No. No. No. Everything is great. Yeah. But tell us, like, we rolled up on a float. Did he? I don't want to end up on a list by even talking about him, but I'm ready on it. Okay. Do you tell me what you want me to say? What's the over-under in him having gotten the static? Oh, my God. In the past three years. Oh,

honey. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Was that Santa Continental? Yeah. Oh, cash. Oh, honey. Yeah. Yeah. He was organized. I mean, I just feel like, I mean, I'll say what I want, but I feel like if there's any debauchery going on, he's probably there, right? Right now. I mean, they literally,

he's, he just sued $15 million because of an article about him being wasted and missing all these

meetings. And they needed like a, a battle of a ramp to get through hotel dorm. We just passed out. Most Santa Continental FBI director, since, I mean, it's certainly more than, than Mueller,

“probably more than Komi. Like, I think this guy's, if we're going to guess ranking FBI directors”

by likelihood of going to Santa Continental. So you put a scale up on the edge. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. FBI director, all the Santa Continental. We're going to go somewhere. We're going to go somewhere. Yeah. There's the sexuality spectrum, but there's also the Santa spectrum. It's not kind of as a spectrum. Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. And you know what the thing about spectrums, you're on it no matter what. Yes. Even if you're all the way at the one hand of zero, you're still part of the slide of the spectrum. Yeah.

So, and that's what's beautiful about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the fabric of society.

And that fabric is sometimes synthetic red. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I'll go up and flames.

“It's just melt on your body. And someone who has been there with that level of alcohol and”

intoxication myself. Yeah. It's okay. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's okay.

I'm, I've never been to Santa Continental. I have, I have partied like that in my life.

I don't, it's great. Why? It's, I have, I had a plus fun, really fun memories. Yeah. I've supposed to stay. Yeah. Come on. Come on. Yeah. Where do you see Santa Cungoing? As our resident expert. Yeah. Santa Cungoing. Like what's next for Santa Cungoing? Right. Every year it's because I do feel like at least as someone deep in his 30s. It is becoming your 40s. It is becoming a little song of ice and fire where we have like the two worlds colliding of the 20-year-old's from Hoboken

determined to piss themselves and get in the fight. Mm-hmm. And then we have like the 30-something-year-old's who have kids who are trying to just like get through December alive. Mm-hmm. Where is they're going to be a civil war? Like what do you see on the road? What is like season four of Santa Cungoing? Yeah, it's a race riot. Like what is that? Uh, I mean, it's a good question. So Santa Cungoing, you know, I mean, of course, it's the end of Santa Cungoing. No, it's the end of Santa

Cungoing. No, it's the end of Santa Cungoing. No, it's the end of Santa Cungoing. No, it's the end of Santa Cungoing. Yeah, like, first of all, is anybody, you ask a thousand Santa Cungoing who's that head of this? I don't know. You don't even know what that they don't have to pay to a non-profit yet. Oh, yeah, they don't even know. They've just like, it's a wristband, it's a party who cares. If anything it probably makes it like a little more transgressive. Like we're going to the scammy thing. We're going to the

cut. Like we're all watching the documentaries about cons. We love this stuff. It's like you're your front row seat at the con at the scam right there. Absolutely. You know, and if you're coming in from Hoboken, you're like, oh, what? Like five dollars from my wristband isn't going to

this thing that I was told about. He never had a fine print. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, has Santa Cungoing been trademarked? Well, that's, you know, when the original creator's

“created, it was designed to be this big open thing. Now, I think there's, you know, don't”

quote me on this, but I think there are sort of like organizations and groups and local perhaps in New York, one who have their own trademarks associated with this, and I am sure that's some of them have attempted the own various aspects of this, but when these guys create it, the whole point was to make it open. Yeah, like it's an idea for everybody. Or also it was never something else supposed to repeat itself. It was like a coffee society would create these like

one-off things, and then, all right, the next year they decided to do it again, and the next year they decided to do it again, and the next thing you know, it kind of goes viral. And like other people are doing that. And it was sort of like this proto flash mob when they started, like the term flash mob didn't even exist, but it's basically what it was. I want to ask you about Coachella. Sure. Have you been following what's happening with Coachella at all? I'm happy to do it

quick. Still me and my friends. So similar to Burning Man, similar to Santa Cone, Coachella was once this pure thing that then got corrupted by the wrong, one of the wrong type of person goes, and then it becomes that type of group of people go, and a lot of influencers go, and it's now become a little bit of like oversaturated, late-stage capitalistic hellscape. We're like putting branding up, branding up, branding up, branding up, and it was supposed to be just like this fun

concert out in the desert, and now it's become just like ridiculous. And brands are flying influencers out. And so this pasture and it's still kind of ongoing, these influencers that were flown out, were getting really ragged on for like taking the free seat from Starbucks to go and do the Coachella there. And I do feel like the coolness and the exclusivity of Coachella. It's gone. It's gone. No one wants to go. It was probably 10 years ago, but now it's like, I don't even think

the influencers are kind of want to go because some people got shit for it this year.

Well, when these things, the problem is like, like the modicum of cool that people are

“to think that capitalise on, you have to keep that sparkle alive somehow. When you totally”

over, you know, put that blanket on the fire, which is what happens with all of these things, you know, eventually brands don't even want to be a part of it. Right. You know, it just becomes, it comes over saturated and it's too available. There's no exclusivity anymore. Yeah, it's just so watered down at this point that it's, it's just not cool anymore. I mean, I can't tell you how many times, like,

it's just randomly scrolling on social media to see like, and it's always like the same kind of person come with me and see, you know, while I do, you know, this is my clothing haul for Coachella. And you know, and it's, but what is, like, New York mag is the thing where it's like the back fashion, the white girl voice is so good. Come with me. It's, New York mag is the thing where it's like, like, the backlash in the backlash in the backlash. I think we're in the backlash era of Coachella.

it becomes so uncool. It becomes cool. But I also think the reason my Santa Con has been been

“impervious at that uncool cancellation is because to go is kind of cringe. Yeah. Like to do this”

is kind of cringe. You're go, you're the, the concept of it is you're already going in without any self-consciousness. People are going to Coachella because they want to look cool. Yeah. They want to be like, oh my god. And same with burning them where they're like painting their faces. They kind of want to appear like a badass. It also costs a lot of money to go to Coachella. Yeah. Yeah. Santa Con, you can get a Santa suit for like 15 bucks on Amazon and a path train

right now, book in your chat. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Like it is still. And it does kind of hold that thread of the original concept, which is like, we are, there is this anarchistic, there is sort of element. And you know, I'll say like the folks involved with the modern Santa Con who I did deal with were all awesome. And like super nice. And a lot of them were kind of people who've been there for a long time. And you know, we're just like kind of resilient and

they're desired to have fun understanding that the world is endlessly shitting on what they do. Yeah. You know, yeah. I've got to get positive people who are like, we're going to do this thing no matter what the late night comic say, no matter what we can't update says about us, no matter what, you know, they know everybody hates Santa Con. Right. And to still do it, it's like, it's kind of

cool. And things that we do that always said that about my podcast and career. Yeah. I really

and it is something that makes me feel a strong affinity for Santa Con. Could you tell us maybe some of the most horrific debatress things that you uncovered about Santa Con stories, maybe from the past present future Santa. Yeah. I mean, the real, the real joy of making this film was going through all this archival footage from the early Santa Con in the 90s. And the bulk of the film takes place in these four years, uh, 95 through 98 in four different cities as the original

creators start Santa Con in San Francisco and then bring it to other cities one year at a time in each city like the Johnny Apple seeds of mayhem spreading it across the land. Yeah. So they go from San Francisco to Portland to LA and up in New York in 98. And that's kind of the last year a lot of the original creators went was 98 New York by then that was the first year as in New York. And then by then it just sort of was spreading, had a life of its own. But some of the stuff we caught on

camera, which you saw on the film, I like pot, I'm like watching a footage and like, wait, wait, what was that? Like they're just walking on Fifth Avenue and they run into Michael Moore for some reason. And Michael Moore thinks they're protesting consumerism and Christmas and starts leading them in these like anti-capitalist Christmas carols that he's like improvising on the

spot. And it's hilarious and yes kind of cringe and kind of beautiful and amazing.

Bruce Michael Moore. Yeah, it's like, like, just so Michael Moore just manifest for some reason.

“And I was like, you say his name four times in 1980. That's what he was like, and it's like,”

that's, that's Michael Moore. And then the the 1990s in New York's sequence, the very first year it was in New York. It kind of culminates with several of the sandals including our main character, John, climbing the Brooklyn Bridge as Santa like with the shadow of the World Trade Center behind them in this deathifying stunt that it's like, I don't know what the statue of limitations is then climbing the Brooklyn Bridge, but he had no problem talking about it. Yeah, it's over.

Yeah, it's over. Yeah, it's a legal expert. It's definitely not 30 years. No, yeah. So it's good. It's pretty not 11. You could do whatever you want back then. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on the show and talking to us about Santa Con. Any other groups that you're really going to have you've already done action park. He's already just did Santa Con. I mean, you can, yeah, you can still see class action park and mine on H.O. Max, how to have a bank and other movie inmates on Netflix,

Santa Con, hopefully coming soon. You can check out [email protected] and you don't want to sleep. If I's got leads about cool stuff, no one went. I meant to reach out to me. Yeah, I used to find. Yeah, people have gotten a sense of that. Yeah. You get a sort of focused on, yeah. What's the best way? Uh, you can find me on social and you do gorgeous. Yeah. Next one, I'm just a like a request for a documentary. If you could do Pablo Escobar's zoo. How is that

“hippos? The hippos. The hippos. I think that would be really cool. If you want to go global,”

yeah, that could be an interesting angle because the hippos are now destroying the ecosystem, but there's no this tourism. And I love this story so much. Yeah. Yeah. The people in the area are now using the hippos as a way to make money. Hey, if you want to come see Pablo's hippos, here they go. But the hippos are we can have it. They're killing people and like apparently their scat is super toxic to the area. I would love to know. In terms of like animals,

the mess with hippo is at the bottom of the list. Do not mess with. No, they will. No, but I kind of love. Yeah. I do. I'm obsessed with them. Yeah, they're um, they're not carnivores. They'll just kill you because they want to. Oh yeah. Yeah. Which that kind of person. It's so beautiful. It's such a great

We're going to take a break. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you, Seth. It's good to see you. Great to be there. Thank you. So it will be right back. Welcome back to Brief Recess. This is Tales from the DMs. These are all the weird freaky

nasty things y'all send me in my DMs. Everybody remember what I always say while Michael is

“a lawyer? He's not your lawyer. So you should probably get your own. Okay. So this is a review”

from I need more sleep. Same. Um, this pod is like a brunch hangover. You really can't speak, but you enjoy sitting there with your faves, listening to them talk ish as they keep you updated on the latest. Melissa and Michael are hilarious and definitely worth a listen. Thanks, I need more sleep. So much. I had a brunch hangover. Mm-hmm. It's about 10 years ago. Okay. We still remember it some days over. Okay. So it was when I was dating the coach of my swim team where I was

then asked to leave the swim team and stayed over it. It was the first time I stayed over at his house and we had just been hooking up I stayed over his house. Mm-hmm. And I didn't sleep at all because I just wasn't used to sleeping in like a stranger's bed and like I think it was like and it was very I forget the neighborhood. I want to say it was like flat iron or something. Okay. We go to brunch the next day. Mm-hmm. He tells me that he's struggling with religion.

What's this struggle? Proceeds to break up with me at freedmen's on 30th street in the flower district. How many drinks in? A couple mimosas in. He decides to tell me he's has a catholic relapse and his feeling guilty about all of the gay sex. All the gay stuff. I was like we are like deep in our 20s. This isn't like high school anymore and now and let me tell you I haven't backed it back to freedmen's sense. Well he ruined it for you. Yeah. His name was Neil. I'm willing to go

“on the record. I'm not scared. I'm not scared of someone who can sleep at 15 seconds. E-I-L. Which Neil?”

And E-A-L. Oh. Yeah. Interesting. He spelled it weird and he was fucking free. Yeah. There you go. Get bent. Um, here's another email. I think it was funny. Um, I tried real hard to listen to

the Pita episode. I tried fast forwarding through some of it and finally had to give up.

I can't handle the Catholic guilt. The description of what is done to animals gives me. I am no longer Catholic, but the guilt never leaves. The guilt of what she's done to animals? The guilt. There's a lot of Catholic guilt over anything. Everything. Everything. Oh. Everything. All right. I should know better because I swim coach. Well, there you go. I was the victim of a dumping. Uh, so they go on to say I did start donating to Pita. I'm sure they really appreciate it. The episode made me

realize they aren't the crazy organization. I thought they were, but any communication from them goes straight in the trash in real life or virtual. Oh, that's okay. Yeah. I spam people. I do the spam all yeah. So the, the question is, my question is for Melissa. Do you still wear your vintage

first after that episode? So the answer is going to be yes. I don't think I have worn them since

then, but it's been warm, but it's been warm, which is why. Um, I'm still going to wear them, but, but I know that I'm not going to buy any new ones. You've vintage or new. The reason why I'm keeping the ones that I have. One of them, especially belong to a relative of mine who passed away

“and it has got a lot of cinnamon. No, I think it's fine too. Um, and I also know that I remember”

when she bought it and she was so proud and so happy that I don't think that I could give it away. It's like karma points, right? It's like you're going to do that, but you're going to eat the coconut yogurt. You know, it's like, it's like, it can be a little bit of a swapsy. It's up to you and your own personal sort of values, right? I'm going to continue wearing like leather boots. I'm sorry. I didn't realize that she went on. I have one that was gifted to me and I don't know

how I feel about after listening to a little bit of the episode that I could stomach. I've learned so much from listening to brief recess. Thank you so much for keeping us informed and entertained thanks Karen. So yeah, as I say, Karen, um, yeah, do what feels right for you if you don't feel right wearing it. Gifted a two Karen right and then let us know was it your swim coach? Was it like who gave and it depends who gifted it to you? I'm not going to, yeah, because if it's gotten

negative sentimental value, maybe it's below, right? Was it maybe your boyfriend who was at a content because he was a religious studies student and then right when he got out he broke up with you. Was it your swim coach right after then broke up with you? Like who is it? Just curious.

that an ex gave you? It depends how valuable it is. It was like a Rolex on keeping that right. Well, what, I mean, what if it's just something that you happen to like and forget about the person

“who gave it to you? I think it's fine. Yeah, no, because when it comes to exes, there's already”

especially with me. There's so much beef. There is so much bad with ex that if there's just one little shrapnel piece that is has something positive to it, hang on to it. Okay, hold it close so is that there's going to be? Do you have beef with most of your exes? Not that we have like a live beef or I'm like, oh, I got to take this. But of course, there's so much, nothing has ever ended on good terms for me. There's no this conscious I'm coupling in my life. No. I'm mediterranean stock.

Like it is, it gets vicious, right? So it's scorched earth. I got you. So if there is something positive like a nice sentimental value, think, do you have anything sentimental from exes that you've

kept? I don't, I can't think of anything because most of them were deadbeats and never gave me anything.

There you go. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. They were writing my co-tail. Exactly. Remember what I said the other day? Hold those sexual friends. That is, that is, that is what that is. That is what that is. That is what that is. This is the guy who's driving you to work in your car and then go home so we didn't watch sports center all day. That guy, yes, that guy. I had to just explain to Brad what sports center was

because I was like, we didn't know what it was either. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like a hockey brand. I'm going to sports center. Sports center. No. It sounds like a place with the crane game.

You know what I mean? What do you never win? I win. Do you really? I am very good at that.

“I'm not actually one flex. The kids who get stuck in that. How is that happening?”

Am I wrong? I'm like physically sluck at it. Yes, you never find me in. The end of it. I'm not the only person. That's a mess. I'm not to me. I'm the only person who see that. I thought you were like just like trying over and over. Like when you get your hands stuck in the vending machine. No, it was a kid. I swear to God.

Thank you for watching. This is brief free says. I'm Michael Fed. I'm Melissa Mabrant. We'll see you in court. Not me. This has been an exactly right production recorded at iHeart Studios.

“Posted by me, Michael Foot. And me, Melissa Mabrant. Our producer is CJ Faroni.”

This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick Cotner. Our theme song was composed by Tom Briefogel with artwork from Charlotte Delereo and Vanessa Leilac, with photography by Brad O'Bono. Brief recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgarif, Georgia Hardstock and Daniel Cramer. You can find me on Instagram at Department of redundancy department or on TikTok at Michael Foot.

And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Mabrant. Got legal questions. Reach out at brief recess at exactly right media.com. Listen to brief recess on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, we're a podcast with video. Search for brief recess on YouTube. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler. We have some fantastic guests

like Amelia Clarke. When like young people come off to me and they want to be an act or whatever.

And my first thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do rather big.

Because for today. Do that. David O'Yellowo. I love this podcast weather. Is therapy or relationships a religion or sex or addiction or you just go straight for the guts. Dennis Leary, gate and moderato from Stranger Things, Santa Mojo, Camilla Morone, Carrie Kenny Silver, and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.