Gabriela Ortiz - Composer and Grammy Gal

From WQXR and Carnegie Hall. This is classical music happy hour hosted by me, pianist Maniacs.

Each episode will speak with a special guest about their lives. Listen to some of their favorite musical gems, play music inspired games and answer questions from you our listeners. Conductor Gustavo Duda Mel has called my guest today one of the most talented composers in the world. Growing up in Mexico City within a family of musicians, she insists that rather than choosing music, music chose her. She's known for her mixing of musical idioms and her latest album called

Revolución Diamantina, one three Grammy awards including Best Contemporary Classical Composition. Gabriella Ortiz, welcome to the show and thank you so much for coming. Thank you,

“Emmanuel, for this incredible invitation. You grew up in a musical family. Did they all play instruments?”

Were they composers themselves? What did they do? Well, you know, my mother played a piano.

I mean, she studied piano. She was a good reader. She never became a professional pianist and

she was a psychologist. But yeah, she played a piano. She was the one that knew how to read music. But then my father played a guitar. My father, his family, comes from WQXR, from Saliz, co-word, you know, the mariachi, and the Songhagdiz. So my father loved to play the guitar and his song very, very well. So basically, I grew up listening to folk music and listening to classical music. That was very normal in my house. And they found this group, Carlos Falklorist, that was a famous group in the '60s. Played all the folk music, not only from Mexico,

but from Latin America. And I remember listening to the Los Falklorists rehearsing and my living during my house. And then my father, let's play the toven. So it was very common in my house to hear the toven and then to hear folk music and then hear mariachi. And that was very common. So that's an amazing combination because very often the background of a composer or a pianist or violinist is one type of

“music. They hear Beethoven all their life. And that's what they play. But to have this combination”

as a child must have been amazing. Yes, you know, my favorite uncle, he's a scientist, he's a mathematician, but he's the one that introduced me to the Beatles and he's the one also to introduce me to the rock of the '70s and in the '60s. And then my brother loved it. So it was very common that

don't hear folk music. Let's hear let's happily. And I prefer let's happily. I have my brother always

going into the opposite side of my parents. So so all of that must be influencing what you do now. Absolutely. But you also you want it to be a flamenco dancer, as a child, right, which is, you know, what are my favorite folk music in Mexico is San Caracho. And the San Caracho it's played in Beracruz and it's very famous because they do the Zapatiado, the stepping and that comes from the flamenco. So that's why I also like flamenco very much. And probably this is also because of my

grandfather. He came from Paisbasco. So I have this Spanish side also as well in my blood probably that it's just I love it. I mean it's fire. It means so many things. So yes, I was just dancing flamenco.

“And then when I was 14 years old, I remember that I saw this movie that it's called”

"Baldas de Sangre", you know, based on lorcas. Yeah. Text by Carlos Saurad, his famous film is Spanish. Yes, filmmaker. Yes, I've seen the Carmen movie. Exactly, Carmen. And then, you know, that was Antonio Gavis was one of these famous flamenco dancers. And I remember saying my father, you know, I don't want to finish high school. I want to move to Spain and I want to move to Spain. And then my father said, "Do your homework and then we can talk later about beside

me." Well, it's my fantasy to dance like him and look like George Clooney. And for some reason neither of those things happened. I'm sorry to say. And then you have a connection to Moller and a specific movement from his fifth symphony, the Adagieto. Which it's a sublime sublime movement. But what do you feel is special about

with words because it's so, so intense. It's so beautiful.

“But also, I think that I have an attached history behind the Adagieto. My grandfather”

started medicine at George Town University. He came from Spain here right to Haleesco in Guadalajara and then his family sent him, this is at the beginning of 20th century, to George Town University to study medicine. And at that time, he went to New York and here in Moller. He's so Moller conducting. Wow. So my father grew up listening to Moller. I mean, that came from my grandfather. And he's interested in story because when he came back, he was a doctor and he was working

in a hospital in Guadalajara. This is when you know the Mexican revolution just started and Pantrui came to the hospital and he asked, "Who is this guy with a blonde herb that is taking care of my soldiers?" My grandfather. He said, "Well, you're coming with me." And so my grandfather

spent 10 years by the way, you know, with Pantrui in the Mexican revolution. It's an amazing story.

Wow. My grandfather. But he loved Moller. Really loved Moller. And I remember the first time I saw my father really crying is when he was listening to the other jet of him. ? Do you find yourself being quite liberal with people who play your

“music? I mean, allowing them to do different things? I really believe that performers are also”

creators. They are incredible artists. And they have this creative perspective that I really respect. So when a performing but his own personality into his plane, I really respect that. Like, for example, the attack a string quartet, play my piece and they did it so wonderful. And it's the wrong interpretation, the wrong world, the wrong way of playing. And that was really fantastic. So sometimes you imagined a different sound, but you might be happy with what you get.

Exactly. I mean, with the smell, for example, sometimes he really plays very fast my music. And sometimes it's very exciting. Like, how goes that way? It's really conducting this so fast. Wow. I actually wanted to ask because in the revolution, the pink glitter, unbelievably, it sounds

“incredibly difficult. And the chorus is just amazing. How do you get these people to do that?”

I know, I write very difficult. It's not because you know, difficult music means that it has to be really good. I mean, that's it. No, it's incredibly exciting. It's just as someone who

plays, you know, I'm always thinking, oh my god, I could never learn that. You know, it's just,

well, part of it is because I'm really old. No, I don't think so. Do you don't look like that? Fantastic. Can you tell me a little bit about a piece like Clara? Well, you know, Clara was commissioned by the New York Philharmonic and Gustavo Duda Mel. And the idea is that they commissioned this piece to be paired with a human's symphonies. So Gustavo told me, why don't you explore the relation between Clara and Robert? Because of that, you know, I started reading a lot about Clara

about Robert, about this really strong but very complicated and painful relationship. So you get a lot of the inspiration comes from the life of the composer. Absolutely, the life of both. But then there is a central section of this piece that because I thought a lot about

but what even instead of me traveling to their world, why don't I don't bring them into my world?

That was my question. And then trying to have this conversation in a circle, kind of think, where the past meets the future or the future meets the past. So in the middle section is my idea

“of bringing what happens if Robert Schumann and Clara come to Mexico. So what would that happen?”

So this is my idea. So the central part is very rhythmic and it has a very different feeling. So Gabriela, I'm hoping that you can help me answer some questions about classical music from our WQX or listeners. We've invited them to submit their questions and we're going to do our best to answer them. And if I don't know the answer, I'll just make something up. Okay. Now we have a question about musical instruments. Hi, man. This is Nancy from Louis Delaware.

Here's my question. It doesn't seem as though the basic instruments of the orchestra have changed much in hundreds of years. Why is that? The cello is of course perfect. But are there no improvements or inventions that can be made to other instruments other than adding computer

“elements? Could there be a differently shaped string instrument or a longer flute? I think invention”

in composition and forms of musical performance, but not much invention other than electronics in the instruments themselves. Why is that inquiring minds want to know? Okay. Well, I'm going to let Gabriela start to answer that because she knows. That's a very interesting question. I know that there are a lot of explorations on strings, but in terms of how musicians play the strings, no up in terms of the acoustic of the instruments. But what I know for example with the flute

because I'm married with a fluteist is that there are a lot of improvements about the flute. For example, glissando's that normally the flute cannot do a glissando or you know the range of the flute. Now we have like a contrabeys flute, but they are not in the orchestra for other reasons because for example, the contrabeys flute, the sound is very soft. They need amplification. So probably one of the reasons that composers have not used this instrument in the context of

an orchestra is because of that probably because of the balance. In percussion, for example, the marimba, the beginning of the 20th century, the marimba got to a low A and now we have a five octave marimba, which means that we have a really bass marimba thing and that's really common.

So basically in percussion, you know, you can see always new instruments acoustically speaking

that they are not electronics. Yeah, I think as far as going higher than a violin, I don't know that the human ear would pick up so much. So as you say, if the cello is perfect, I would say the violin is probably pretty close to perfect for what it does. And my main instrument is the piano. In fact, my only instrument is the piano. I've never played anything else, but there have been incredible changes up to the beginning of the 20th century.

Since then, we've been sort of locked down, but there are always extensions in terms of just sheer volume. The pianos from 1900 did not have the power of the piano today. So that's a big change, I suppose. And there are pianos with extra octaves that are made by Busendorfer, which is actually very scary to a pianist because, well, they do put them in black rather than white, but I remember playing a Brahms concerto on one of those pianos. And this particular

concerto starts on the next to last note of the regular piano. And I was looking down all of a sudden,

“I see all these extra keys. And I think what the heck is that? So you need to get used to it.”

Also, I did play what you'd call an ergonomic piano. There's a famous architect Rafael Vignoli, who died last year, who designed the hall in Philadelphia, the Verizon hall. And he also built a piano that was sort of based on the ergonomic computer, you know, where the keyboard is kind of curved. This keyboard is also curved. And I actually practiced and played it in Philadelphia

in his hall. He designed this piano. He was a very good amateur pianist. And it looks amazing.

we'll see a lot of that. Anyway, thanks for the question.

This is classical music happy hour. I'm Maniacs. We'll return in just a moment. On big lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane Fonda, George Michael, Little Richard. And we pull apart the story behind the image. And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archives. Discovering forgotten interviews that changed exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes.

I'm Emmanuel Jochi. And Kyri, and this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Maniacs, and this is classical music happy hour. Let's return to our conversation with Gabriella Ortiz. What is your favorite drink after a long day? I used to drink tequila,

“but now I think that Miss Cal is one of my favorite Mexican drinks. Wow. Amazing.”

But also glass of wine. I mean, my father loves wine. So yes, also a good wine. A good, you know, dry, white, wine. What's the best book you've ever read about music? I've had music. Oh my gosh. That's very difficult. You know, there is a Cuban writer, Alejo Carpentier. He's not really famous probably in the English literature. But there are three books. And it's called "El músico que lle bo dentro". The music that is inside me. And it's really an incredible writer.

And I think that that was one of the best books that I read about music. Great. What is a concert that you would wish to hear again? You know, the first time that I heard the right of the spring life was when I was studying music in London, and I heard bullets

conducting by memory. And I was so, so surprised because I've never heard a Stravinsky,

and especially the right of this spring in a life situation. And yes, I couldn't even breathe after that. You talk about the idea of pulse. Being maybe different from rhythm or is that sort of one word meaning the other to you? I mean, pulse is about rhythm. But you know, what happened, especially in the second half of the 20th century, is that many European composers feel the rhythm in a more abstract way. They focus more in the series of the racians and things like that instead of

feeling the music with the pulse. And the way probably Latin culture feels the rhythm is always within a pulse. For me it's very difficult to feel the piece of music that doesn't have an specific pulse. Even if you have metric changes or it's very regular, you have a pulse. You have the sense of pulse. And for me that is very important. What I find in your music is also a great variety of rhythm and great variety of if you choose to call it pulse. I think what I was brought up with was very

“steady metric beats and in a way more important being paid to harmony and melody. And I think maybe”

that's one of the things that's changed in music in composition since 1900. That's true. I mean, I think that there are so many parameters in music that you can focus on timber, texture, noise, but certainly, you know, my feeling towards harmony and melody is still very important in music. Well, sure you can't get rid of one note. No, I think that's part of what I do. One of the pieces that completely blew me away was this violin concerto, which is on the

revolution with Maria Duena's who sounds incredible. Do you know the violin well? It sounds

terrifyingly difficult, but it all seems to work. No, I don't play the violin, but probably may experience about writing string quartets, gave me some knowledge about the violin. And then

“I think Maria was a very strong inspiration for me. This is very important for a composer. When”

you know that you're going to write for a specific performer, it's just fantastic. So you heard her play and you heard recordings and did you talk to her at all as you were working on the piece? Only once. Just one time. Yeah, I think twice, but very briefly. And then I sent her, you know,

silently. So I was very curious. And I was very scary, actually. You know, I have to confess that maybe she doesn't like it or I don't know. And then I arrived to the hotel before the first

“performance with the Elefielor money. And I remember that we had our first rehearsal in the hotel in”

the room. And then she played the entire concert to me. Incredible. And yeah, she just mentioned,

you know, these octaves at that speed are very complicated. So maybe I just want to play the top note of those octaves. Probably that's all we change. I remember reading some letters of Brahms, where he was writing to his friend Joseph Joachim back and forth about, is this practical, is this practical, is this practical? But I guess with someone like her, it doesn't matter. Everything is practical. And in a way, may I ask the same kind of question about working with someone

like Duda Mel? You give him a piece of music. Does he make changes? Does he make suggestions? Do you talk about things like balances, temples, what's possible, what's not possible? I think we do that Mel. It's a very different situation. When you work with a performer or when you work with chamber musicians, you have more time for rehearsals. That's a truth. But with an orchestra,

“time is very limited. Sure. So you have to arrive with a very professional score. You don't want to”

waste time during the rehearsal. Okay. Could we try this or could we try this in the other way? We could do that in specific places. But you have to be very smart because time is called. Yes. But before you ever get to the rehearsal stage, when you look through the piece with him, before the orchestra even begins to play, does he have suggestions about things? Normally, Gustavo is so busy. That's weird. That's weird. That piece to be sincere.

Usually you just arrive to the rehearsal. But at this point Gustavo knows my music so well, he understands everything so well that there's no need to do that. But I remember, you know,

my first time with a New York Philharmonic, I was just really, really scary. I arrived to the

first rehearsal and my heart was beating. I don't know. I had a really nice speed and it was like, Gustavo did you see this course? Yes. Let's rehearse it. Let's say no, my God. Okay, here we go.

“What about La Mère? So, so La Mère? I know you love the piece. I love the piece. What about it?”

Something that I really like is that they've you see, really capture the poetry and the mystery of the ocean. I had this obsession with water and, obviously, one of my obsessions is the sea. It's the ocean. I spent my child who'd go into Koli, Maman Sanillo, which is one of the states where my grandmother comes from and spend the whole

summer in front of the beach. And I always find it fascinated.

His sense of harmony is unbelievable. His sense of color. It's so beautiful. The way he orchestrated is so unique. It simply is. Isn't he magic and beautifully crafted? Do you find some kind of connection between Ravelle, Debussy and water? There seems to be a lot of music by both of them that deals with water? You know, I had a chance to be sent to San Jean de Nu, which is the little town where Ravelle was born, and it's near the ocean. I think that Ravelle grew up having the ocean in his head.

A listener wants to know about the social dynamics of orchestras.

cafeteria, where the wooden people don't sit at the same table as the percussion people,

“or is everyone maybe a lot friendlier than I'm giving them, like the medical credit for.”

Gabriella would you like to try to answer that? Oh, well, either think of the orchestra I guess. Can you answer that? I mean, from your perspective. My experience is that yes, sometimes they gather by instrument, but I actually know of several cases, where because of some long-standing foods for reasons which I'm not aware of at all, there are members of a section that don't speak to each other for years. It's like a family. You know, there are families where all the brothers and sisters

get together every holiday, and there are others where you don't really. You don't meet until you have to. Exactly. Until there's a funeral or something. But in my experience, probably the percussion

“is the exception. Normally, that section, they're very friendly to each other, and I agree with you”

and also up trombones. Trombones and tuba are always together, and they like to have a beer

after a concert. That's been my feeling. Yes, yes. Thank you for the question. So let me ask about a title, Revolution de Amantina, the album that won the Grammy. What does the title mean? Well, you know, Revolution de Amantina is a ballet, and the ballet is inspired about this protest that happened in Mexico City against violence to women. And this protest became very controversial because these women that went to the streets protesting. They did a

lot of graffiti in very important monuments, and then they throw glitter through the whole city. So since then, you know, that protest took the name of Revolution de Amantina because of the sparkle because of the sparkle. Yeah. So the title comes from that protest, and it's kind of, it's my protest. It's my way of saying, we need to stop this. You know, unfortunately in Mexico, every single day there are 11 feminicides. 11 women's die every day in my country. So that

has to stop. Yeah. You're often moved to write music in response to ideas like this. Absolutely, yes, because I want to express many things. For example, climate change, I think that we are facing a very

“difficult moment right now as a human being. And I want to talk about that and the best way that I could”

do it is through my music. So definitely those themes are just fuel for my creativity and also the necessity for me to speak out to. To find that music is a way to escape what's around us or a way to engage us and what's around us. I think it has those meanings. I mean, you can escape by listening to wonderful music. For example, if I feel sad, and then I played Celia Cruz, which is another salsa music, I started dancing and I forget my sadness. You know, it's not

dangerous. So you can escape or you can really feel consolation or comfortability by listening to music that gives you that. Mozart, for example, for me, is a way to get comfort. But also, you get the other thing. I listen to music and when you read the program notes and then you understand why this composer wrote this music, then you can get consciousness about many things. Or think about Miss Yan when you wrote the Quatturpa Leifandutam. This quartet was written in

a concentration camp. When you feel that you feel the strong, you know, believing in humanity and in art and despite all these really terrible conditions, he was producing one of the most

beautiful pieces. Yes, that I ever heard. I find it amazing to read, for example, about what Beethoven

was going through when he was in despair and thinking about ending his life and writing music that's actually his funniest music. So it's sometimes the disconnect between those two is endlessly fascinating to me. Me too. I mean, just think about Bartok writing the concerto for orchestra or the viola concerto.

brought, I think, that seemed for me in three months. Yeah. Here we have a question from a listener

“in South Carolina. This I know you're going to love. My name's Jacques and I'm here in Charleston,”

South Carolina. My question has to do with folk music and I would like to know how popular has it been for folk music to be recorded written down by composers and then turn into great symphonies or clarinet concerto or whatever it might have been. So that's my question. Thank you. Wow. You know, there are so many composers that got inspiration in folk and popular music. I can tell you just to give you an idea. Most of our composers in Latin America like Villalobos,

Hina Stéra, Carlos Chavez, Elbreste Revolta's from Mexico, Villalobos from Brazil, Hina Stéra from Argentina. All of them got inspiration in folk music from the wrong countries. So I can tell you hundreds of composers that got inspiration, even John Adams got inspiration in jazz or popular music, Steve Reich. So many American composers, verse kindly. It's a wonderful

example of an incredible composer, conductor, incredible musician, Gershream, even Malir.

I mean, there's so many... One of your inspirations, Bartok. Bartok, of course, Bartoligetti at the beginning of his career, Lutos Lavsky as well at the beginning of his career. And as you say, even Beethoven wrote three string quartets, which to some degree are based on Russian tunes. Absolutely. Folks, the Opus 59 quartets, Chopin wrote 53 Mazurkas, which are based on

“Polish dance. So I think the idea that classical music and other music are separate”

is something we need to very strongly oppose all the time. That idea should not be part of our life, I think. But I will, yes, yes, I agree with you. It's just, I think, and I'm so glad you asked this question because I think that's something we should keep talking about and making as much sense of that as possible. Go tell you, Green. So, right of spring was a big influence. The right of the spring was one of the most

revolutionary violets in 20th century. Introduction is just amazing. I mean, that beginning with

Vassum playing in a very high register that actually since I got really angry and said that, it's I mean, it's getting to know how to write for the Vassum. It's become sort of a problem because the Vassum players today are so fabulous that they make it sound like a very natural and simple tune. I'm sure when he wrote it, the Vassum playing was

“not of this quality and so it sounded all choked up and unnatural. And I think that's probably”

what he meant. So, we need to find some really bad bassoon players. And after this sort of primordial thing, then we start getting this crazy rhythm. The other listening stands and the accents. I mean, that beginning of that, it's just amazing. Or the dance as a crowd, you know, the last one, all these metric changes are incredible. Yes, at the end, it's terrifying and I find that you can't really follow it.

But it sounds right. In other words, it always is unexpected.

So, our game for today is bad reviews of famous composers. There's a wonderful book called The Lexicon of Musical Invective, which was compiled by

and you decide which composer this is about and they'll be a choice. So, this is from the London

Observer in 1923. I suffered more than upon any occasion in my life. Apart from an incident or two connected with painless, then district to begin with, there was his piano touch, but touch with its implication of light-fingered ease is a misnomer.

“He had a touch like a paving stone. Was this about John Williams, Sergei Rachmaninov or Bella Bartok?”

Sergei Lee Jung Williams, not because of the time. Right. So, I guess Bartok?

The Bartok is the answer. Sure, Bartok is the answer. Here's one from 1907, from the New York Post. This composer's music is the drearyest kind of rubbish. Does anybody for a moment doubt that he would write such chaotic,

“meaningless, cacophonous, ungrammatical stuff if he could invent a melody? Was this about Copeland,”

Steve Reich, or Debussy? Absolutely right, Debussy. Unbelievable. Unbelievable, yes. And now, the final question. Okay, okay. I won't even tell you,

maybe I shouldn't give the date. This composer's second symphony is a crass monster,

hideously writhing wounded dragon that refuses to die, and though bleeding in the finale furyously

“beats about with his tail erect. Was this Schubert? Hildegard von Bingen or Beethoven?”

Beethoven? Beethoven, it's right. And this is about the second symphony. That's our quiz. That was so fun. Gabriel Ortiz, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm going to thank you so much. It was one of the funniest and entertainment interviews that I ever had. Hi, many acts, and this is classical music, happy hour.

classical music, happy hour is supported in part by the Robert and Mercedes I call its foundation and by Lyndon Elson. Our production team includes Lauren Persell Joyner, Eileen Dellahanti, Laura Boyman, Elizabeth Nunna-Maker, David Norville, Christine Herskiewicz, and Eddiem. Our engineering team includes George Wellington, Irene Trudell, and Chase Coolpong. Classical music, happy hour is produced by WQXR, in partnership with Carnegie Holt.

(gentle piano music)