Take Two

I've always been a glass half-volt kind of guy, and now I'm talking to some people who look at the world that we too.

Some really fascinating folks who share their defining moments, their triumphs, challenges, their stories, their funny, and my candy. So I hope you'll join me each week and who knows. You might just come away with your own glass half-volt. Search Glass Half-volt with Craig Melvin from today on YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News Anchor, host of the podcast The Drink With Kate Snow. I sit down with all kinds of celebrity's musicians, athletes over a drink of their choice, for candid conversations about how they made it there.

With actor comedian, host, Joel McCall, I could barely stop laughing. You know Joel from community or the soup, his new show Animal Control, he asked for four bottles of Washington State wine for our interview. He has news about whether there's a community movie coming. He tells the story of how he got one of his first big acting gigs by lying about his height.

“And you have to stay through the credits. He's so funny.”

We have behind-the-scenes bloopers and outtakes from our conversation. Hope you'll listen and follow the drink wherever you get your podcasts. Tonight on Date Live.

I don't know what's going to happen. Why knows that she's not going back on me?

A brand new twist in a mind-bending mystery. They'll take her and no one will ever find her body, a kidnapping, and then murder. To see that this case took a turn, no one expected is really the understatement of my career. Nobody saw this coming. I'll pre-back her. Trying to kill his wife. He kills her. He has everything.

There was a lot of money involved here. He was a doctor. We just didn't expect this of a doctor. She was the girlfriend. I was the one who put into motion. Is there any way anyone can hit her and then they wouldn't act?

We can make that happen. He had already told me the guys were flying up from Florida. The black ops. He said my guys don't back down from a plan. This is what you want to do. Did your jaw drop? Yes. It was shocking. Lightning was about to strike twice.

“A sizzling affair, a secret murder plot, and a stunner of an ending that you'll never see coming.”

I'm Lester Hold. This is Date Live. Here's Andrea Canning with Take Two. The story you're about to hear may sound hard to believe. I don't think I've ever seen a twist like this in a date line before. And you've seen a lot of date line.

A murder for higher plot involving a luxury car salesman. She believed that I would harm the guy. The desperate housewife. Don't you worry. You are done. A seductive mortician.

It was horrible. And a dire trust. I didn't know if it was hitman. I didn't know what it was. Total shock. Total shock. The crime was caught on camera.

One car will hit her. But just when it seemed the case was closed, the plot reignited. Even harder to believe the target. This time, that was shocking.

Nine years later, a brand new ending. What were you thinking? Why would you do this again? Our story begins in early April 2016 in Rockland County, New York, nestled along the Hudson River, about an hour's drive north of New York City. It was late afternoon when a car salesman got a visit from a former customer.

What did this woman want to talk to you about? About planning on killing her boyfriend's wife. And you're a car salesman? Yes. What are you thinking when this woman comes in to ask you this?

Kind of blank that a little bit.

“Obviously, the only thing I could ask is why.”

She didn't want to come forward and give me the full of information, but she was given a little by little. Did she look like the kind of woman who would be coming in to hire a man? No way.

Not a million years, I would have to think that.

Mar Kenzie, who asked us not to use his last name for privacy reasons, had been selling cars for more than 16 years. He said this was a first. Did you make a comment that would lead her to come back to you? Oh, yeah.

Mar Kenzie thinks she misinterpreted something he said in an earlier conversation. When she accused her ex husband of harming their children.

What was your comment? We were like, hey, what's going on? If you need any help in the kind of situation, we know a few people that could help you out. Meaning that I have a friend of mine in the police station nearby.

I always call for any reason whatsoever.

“Do you think she took what you told her the wrong way?”

I think she did. She thought maybe that you meant I know some people who can rough your ex husband up. Yeah. Now she was back talking about a different person. Mar Kenzie worried.

Was someone in immediate danger? He stayed composed and kept talking to his former customer. I had to start making her feel comfortable. I told her that not something that I do, but I could potentially get her in touch with the people that could possibly do.

And did you have any background and law enforcement? No. You're just a regular guy. You're a regular guy who hang out with cops and pick up a few things you're in there. Using his skills as a salesman, he kept the rules going.

Even telling her about men he would hire for the job. These guys were like top black ops. Was she interested? She was.

“After she left, Mar Kenzie immediately texted his friend on the police force.”

I kept blowing up his phone to call me, call me, but he was off to. He was playing basketball.

Even though he couldn't reach the officer, he arranged a second meeting for later that night.

Here they are on this gas station security footage. What has she brought you? She brought me a picture and a ziplock bag. A picture of the target. Along with the phone number for the target.

What did you think when you saw that photo? I first I was like, okay, really now this is really serious. And now I put myself out there and I have no idea how to go ahead for a mirror. Eventually his police officer friend called him back. Mar Kenzie didn't know if he should continue.

He says his friend urged him to contact detectives. He asked me, how would I feel in the next couple of days watching the news and find her dead in the news. And knowing that I could stop it. Mar Kenzie reached out to Ramapone, New York detectives, Robert Fitzgerald, and Peter Luzanne. When we first heard it, it's in very unusual case to hear.

We don't get too many cases like that. We're like, well, we're bringing him in. We'll see what if it's actually real or not. What do you ask him? We get into like, hey, we're very interested in this story.

Let's hear what it is. And he's listening. I was approached by a female. How to get rid of somebody. Who's the woman who wanted the hit?

He was a Kelly-Grib look. What were you learning about Kelly? There was some background with Kelly. She was formally orthodox Jewish. She was divorced.

She had children. I had been involved with Kelly-Grib, like prior to that in a different investigation. So I was familiar with her. Detective Peggy Brottich had looked into Kelly's abuse claims about her ex-husband.

That case had gone nowhere. Now, investigators were turning to the detective to learn more about Kelly.

“What did you tell them and how could that help their investigation?”

I just felt that she wasn't a very honest person. That she was deceptive and that she was someone to be concerned with. Kelly had three young boys and was a former mortician turned aspiring model. So who was the woman Kelly wanted dead? Did she give you a name?

Yeah. What was the name? Susan. Susan Barnes-Pain. Susan Bernstein was a housewife who also had three young children.

But why was she in Kelly's sights? The investigation was just getting started. We wanted to set up another meet. And we wanted to make sure we had audio video. This is where this whole story goes a little bit Hollywood.

Yeah, and literally. It's almost something like, "Are you sure?" Because this doesn't sound possible. Right. Her jaw was on the floor.

She was shocked. This is dark.

A second murder for higher blood by the same person.

We couldn't believe it. Detectives set out to catch Kelly Gribbillok in the act of planning a murder. The thing we needed to do is to get more Kenzie's cooperation. Mark Kenzie, the car salesman and father of four, had earned Kelly's trust. So detectives asked him to keep playing the role of bad guy.

That's got to be really daunting. It was kind of cool, you know, in a way, you know, like that's like double a seven type thing. They told him to set up another meeting with Kelly. The location, a Walmart parking lot directly across the street from the police station. We can literally see the police department.

Yeah, I mean, you can throw a rock and hit the police station for me. This time they'd be watching.

So show us where all the cameras were.

“Ken much was over here in the center, and the microphone was hanging over here.”

And on the must see it here, I had a phone. As detectives waited for the meet-up to be set, they scrambled to find out more about Kelly and her target, Susan Bernstein. Turned out the detectives knew Susan's husband. Well, Dr. Ira Bernstein.

He's your police foot surgeon. Yes. A lot of the people that were involved in this investigation in the detective unit were patients of his. They discovered that Ira had been having an on again off again affair with Kelly.

I've always wondered why someone chooses feet as a doctor.

Feet are extremely important, yes. He told us that he and his wife Susan were separated when in-walked Kelly. It was not exclusive, and it was not like lightning at first sight. Ira says Kelly had been a welcome escape from a marriage that was falling apart. According to Ira, his wife had had it easy, raising their young children with the help of 11 nanny.

Her days were filled with lunch dates with friends, spa appointments, many petnies. Well, he was working day and night at his foot surgery centers to keep up with the family's lavish lifestyle. My house was 13,000 square feet on 14 acres of land, and we had tennis courts, a pool, a pool house, a lake, a dock, boats. Did you have other houses? I had about 20 different buildings and houses that I would rent out.

He says Susan was the one spending most of the money. I overextended myself, and then her spending just started amplifying and amplifying

to the point where 40,000 a month on her credit cards was standard operating procedure.

What was she buying? Everything from vacation she would plan, clothes, jewelry. Ira claims he was lonely and resentful and admits he cheated on Susan. But he says when she found out, instead of filing for divorce, they decided to stay together with unorthodox rules.

We decided to have an open marriage, and she could start dating people. But he says it wasn't long before Susan shut down that arrangement, and they legally separated. Are you on the market again? Are you? I am. King, now that you're separated.

Yes, I'm dating a couple different girls. And that's when he met Kelly. She had embarked on a new career selling shoe orthotics. She was actually a patient at buying about four years earlier. And so she was calling me out of the blue to say she'd like to meet with me and see if we can do business together.

She asked Ira to be part of her company, and he agreed. Their professional relationship quickly turned personal. Ira says he found Kelly hard to resist, described her for us physically. I mean, physically, she's very pretty. She's a model. She goes for photo shoots. She's well-built.

And she's got a sexy kind of look to her. Ira says Kelly had gone through a traumatic divorce that left her family in Tatters.

“We could relate perfectly, and I think that's why we kind of meshed so quickly together.”

She was a big comfort to me. But after six months of dating Kelly, he says he ensues and decided to give their marriage one more try. He was tired of spending money on lawyers and missed his children. I couldn't see them enough. I couldn't be involved in their life as much. I was frustrated, and I said to her, "You know what? If there's a chance we can work this out still.

I'm in. I want to work it out."

And I told Kelly, "I feel like if I don't give it a try to see if I can make this work, I'll always regret it."

And she said, "I understand. If you need to do this, you do it." So if she understood, why was she now trying to have Susan killed? Three days after Kelly first approached Mark Henzy, he called the detectives to alert them that Kelly had agreed to meet again. And soon.

A team of detectives raised to the parking lot to get in position while Mark Henzy sat in his car. So she pulls up, as expected, where are you guys? Well, we either have one car close. It's close as we can get.

Another car here, maybe a third there and a fourth. In case they leave or go somewhere, we can follow them. Mark Henzy needed to convince Kelly to get in his car to get her on tape. And she gets actually gets out of car and gets into that car where, like, this is fantastic. What are you hearing, coming from inside that car?

“Well, first they greet each other, remember they know each other.”

So there's some friendly conversation, and then it comes around to the plan. "We can't even remember we can't wish that we could've known each other." Kelly suggested it should look like an accident. "What are you doing around in the corner? It's nothing. It's a 50-50-50-50." He told her as men were ready, but they needed more information.

Like details about Susan's car. "I knew you'd told me to ever see the men's car." "What color did you like?" "Okay, did she want to know?"

Then Kelly started talking money.

“Had you coached Mark Henzy on how much it should be?”

What he should say? Well, we actually would try to let her. In fact, I think Kelly was going to originally put up a price of $200,000 to have it done. And he was like he just went with it. "Okay, too."

This was just the first of many meetings to come.

"Right, yeah." It was a strong start, but it wasn't enough for an arrest. No money had changed hands. Another meeting was in the works. And Kelly was about to dig herself in deeper.

"We're going to do 400, but you got me after." "You know me, if I'd say something on that." [music] Mark Henzy, the car salesman, was now fully committed to his role as the bad guy. "Are you driving around with the cameras and microphones at all times?"

"Yes. We had a switch in the trunk where we turned the equipment on and off.

“I would meet with the other detectives like 20 minutes to half hour before I meet up with her."”

"So we could make sure everything is up and running." On day two of the sting operation, detectives waited for Kelly to show up again. This time in a CVS parking lot. "We're figuring out no hitman's going to be one in the same's axe spot every time. So let's move it around just to change up locations and make it look more realistic."

"Each time you were there."

"All the time we would always be multiple cars with at least two officers or two detectives in each car."

"Like clockwork, Kelly pulled in and got into Mark Henzy's car. They had coached him on how to handle the meeting." "We just told my Kenzy just go along with whatever she says. First of all, don't talk or enter anything. Just go along with that said I can make that happen." "We're not like a either a pit and run, like when she's getting out of the car.

We're like playing an absolutely bad step into where the guy stayed and said, "I didn't see her. You know, I was playing an accident, so there's no investigation." "Cellie wanted to move fast." "Detectives listened, as she offered details on Susan's upcoming schedule." "So this weekend she's going to party on Friday night.

“I'm sure Saturday during the day she can go after the five, because I'm there and hear everything."”

"Then Kelly revealed that Susan knew all about her relationship with Ira. In fact, she said Susan had recently texted her." "On this building, I can't really tell you the cycle she had. I have an answer. She texted me like the last three weeks or four weeks." "Where's she taking your love for me?"

"She thinks he's with me. Look how mean she is. She called me a prophet to have a lot. You know, me and she had." Kelly moved on to lock in a price for the hit. "What for the price?" "For you are on this assumption." Detectives continued to listen in as she negotiated Mark Hansi from 200,000 down to 100,000.

"He's going to do 400, but you got me after." "You don't mean if I say something on that." "Yeah, she brought up on it. That's analysis. Try to get a little bit of money." "No one's just going to do a hit and not give a hit man some money." "Don't frame it."

"Yeah." "So Mark Hansi told her he needed good faith money to keep the hit men interested." "I'll give you something. Give me something to start." "She agreed to pay a deposit. But at the next meeting, she didn't bring it. Instead, she asked about his refund policy."

"If they buy the way that it is refundable." "Yeah, I couldn't believe she was saying. It's what she's like, "Hey, it's just refundable." "If it doesn't happen." "If she wants to say it's refundable, tell her it's refundable. Just let it play out." "Let her try to give some money."

"It wasn't about the money." "It wasn't about getting the contract." "They wish you eating." "You're good at that because your car salesmen." "Hey."

Things were moving in the right direction. But detectives were convinced there was more to the story that Kelly wasn't working alone. She kept referring to someone else. "We could tell you're in a conversation, seeing a Kelly,

we're like, "I need to go back and talk to him." "The money's not the problem." "No, you're right now."

"The problem is we're even if he's going to get the best of it."

"Go break down. He's so weak right now." "He won't be able to hit on the interrogation." But Kelly was essentially doing all the dirty work. "She was the point, person. Eventually we actually do a wiretap on our phone too."

So she was totally committed to the crime already. And we already had her. Now we just needed to make sure that he commits as well. By now, the detectives were pretty sure they knew who he was. But they needed him to meet with Mark Kenzie and Zoom.

They learned Kelly and her accomplice had approached other people about murdering Susan. "They had told two, maybe two or three other people." Kelly was the one putting her out there.

"How did you learn that she had been talking other people?"

It just came up during investigation. She actually mentioned it during conversation with Mark Kenzie. "Who were these other people?" "One person at Kelly worked with a long time ago. Another person at Mark Kenzie knew.

And from a core dealership once, and a daughter of a nanny." "And they all said, "No." "Yeah, they all just, you know, they blew it off. Like, you know, it's just for real. You know, this kind of weird, you know, I'm not getting involved with this."

“So while this plot is unfolding, are you telling Susan?”

That she could be a target? "No." "Yeah, she's not that time because we weren't sure what would happen." "Just getting like she might blow it, or... "She might, you know, take off for her own reasons, you know."

"Did you worry about Susan?" "Sure." "Absolutely. That's right."

And what we would always have Mark Kenzie occasionally say, "Hey, are you shopping around?"

"I mean, is there anybody else?" "Again, we were up on Kelly's phones. We know she's safe." "You had this insight in tell that was kind of giving you that sense that Susan's okay right now."

"Yes. We felt safe that we were controlling this." "They asked Mark Kenzie to push Kelly for a meeting with her partner." "And Kelly was about to deliver." "All of a sudden, I think he's pulling in." "You finally showed."

"Right." "So then we're all like, you know, ducking is we don't want him to see us." As Ramapodatectives continue to investigate the plot to kill Susan Bernstein, they focused on flushing out Kelly's partner. So far, she was the only one who'd shown up to arrange the hit.

"We wanted to make sure that it wasn't just Kelly saying, so it was important to have him come to the scene." Detectives suspected he was the one in charge, especially when it came to the money. "He's not comfortable with giving the 50,

but he's gonna give everything what it's done." "Okay. Is that okay with you?" "I mean, he's not the f*cking killer." Mark Kenzie kept asking to meet him, and then one evening it happened.

A few days into the investigation. They both showed up.

“"All of a sudden, I think he's pulling in."”

"He finally showed." "And then we're all like, you know, ducking is we don't want him to see us." "Who is the other person?" "That was Ire Bernstein." Kelly's lover, and the police foot surgeon,

is that just blowing your mind that it's... "Ira?" "One of the funny things is, under both Los Amigos." "Now we had to be concerned, is he gonna recognize us when we're doing these surveillance?" Kelly and Ira didn't get in the car,

so Mark Kenzie got out. "Hey, how are you?" They could hear Ira say he was worried about incriminating messages Kelly had been sending Mark Kenzie on Facebook Messenger.

"I'm not concerned that we're doing these." Thinking on his feet, Mark Kenzie assured Ira the messages weren't a problem, even though that wasn't true. "A data you can't really treat data.

You could see how much data you knew and you can't see it. You're saying the thing, you know, "It's not a text message that you can say I want to see it." "And you can contact my messages.

You could see a text message." "Oh, no, you can't see it. You can't see it." Kelly still outside, so she was getting cold.

"Oh, yeah, you said the car." "Ah, Ira?" "He actually got in the car with the informant. It was a game changer." Back then, Richard Moran was a Rockland County executive assistant DA.

He was on the case from the beginning. "So, you could give you the rest of that to me." "I am."

"Why never make sure for a coffee?"

"What's it going on?" "It's not a problem at all." "Yeah, I think so." "AAT. The lesser you two know the better."

"I agree."

“Wasn't that enough to arrest him right then and there?”

"No money had been exchanged in New York. You do need an overact." "And we had some stuff, but we did not want to jump the gun on this." When Ira hesitated about going through with the hit, Morcansy calmly told him he had to make a decision.

"No, I know, I know." "Okay, let me escape." "Uh, no, sh*t." "This would be the smooth, smooth, smooth, old, boltful fatter." "That has nothing to do with you."

"I would never have this company to drive him at me." "You never met me." "You don't know each other." "I have no idea what you were." "That's why I told her."

"Oh, I was trying to keep this much out of his mind." "I know, I know." "No, I'm sorry." "I really love the company." "Very good, right?"

"Ira never came back." "A little while later, Kelly hopped back in." "All right." "If you're a bad man, we gave me the money." "And he said that he wants me to hold it."

"No, he wants you to know that I have the money." "But until he makes a decision," he said.

"He's scared, what should I do?"

"I can understand." "It's a natural thing." "I can understand that." "But at the end of the night, that's not the way I've been." "Markenzie asked her again for a deposit."

"If you give it to me now, if I have money, my hand." "I can show my guy that, okay, you know what? Definitely the business." "It's ready to go." "We've got a move on."

"I'll give it to you." "I'm not asking you to be the boss, right?" Kelly said Ira was worried about his children and what would happen after their mother died. "I was thinking, like, how am I going to take care of my kid?"

"That's what I'm going to do." She saw another life for her.

“I think her and I were going to just live together and be happy.”

You know, I don't think she pictured the negative side of it

of the children who is not having their real mother. She brought up the topic in an earlier meeting. "I'm not going to go, I'm going to be a parent." "I'm going to be a parent." "I hope you."

"I'm not trying to get on my train to be a harness." "I don't know if you're in your religion, you do that." "Ticking somewhere to have fun trust me." "I'm not trying to do that. I'm not trying to come to an arcade. I'm letting them play basketball and let them play games.

They want to check it. I think exactly what I said." She talked about one time with Mark Canty in the car. She's like, "We're going to have such parties after this when this is over." And in another time, she felt guilt-ish sitting in the car.

She's like, "Am I going to go to hell for this?" "I want to go together, Stan?" "No." "What's up, of course I'll be McKenzie. Okay, here's the deposit." "Hold on to it. Let me get you the ALK next week."

"Let me get you the ALK in two days."

“"It's nothing. There's something I see money in my hands."”

"Give me a day to work on it." Mark Canty arranged another meeting, hoping Ira would show again. He didn't, but something big happened. "How are you?" "So, I happened to be talking about."

"And it took the pilot like we spoke about." "And cold, hard cash." "Exactly what the investigators needed." "But before Kelly handed it over." "She wanted to talk again about how Susan would be killed."

"The staged accident." "Turns out." "It was something Kelly knew all about." "She'd accidentally run over and killed someone when she was a teenager." "I was in an accident before."

"I have a thing." "They took my car as a talented." "I was taken with the police department." "They should have given blood test." "Joke test."

"I made that."

“It sounded very much like the plan she proposed at their prior meeting.”

"If there's any way anyone can hit her and then stay in Fayette with an accident." "You can take responsibility to stay and look. I didn't pay her." "It was an accident clearly." "We can make that happen." "Now, once again, he reassured her that was the plan."

"If we're going to happen, somebody's going to stay on the scene." "Without, Kelly reached into her purse." "Pulled out a ward of cash and handed it to Markenzie." "So, I'm going to talk to him." "I'm going to talk to him."

"So, I'm going to talk to him." "And now he's going to bring the rest." "Yeah, yes." "I'm going." "What'd we say, hundreds?"

"Falani." "Okay." "Nothing until we give you the go ahead." "We can't be on standby." "Once you turned that money over it, I was the next step."

"And we had Kelly locked in now." "So, Kelly's cooked." "Correct." "But detectives didn't arrest her that because they still didn't have enough on Ira." "And just as they were about to get it, Kelly dropped a bomb show."

"Wait, we're like, "Oh, no. This is right in the middle of our investigation here." "This is good to enjoy it." As detectives waited for Ira and Kelly to give the go ahead to have Susan killed, their investigation took a dramatic turn. The couple had their sights on two new targets.

Kelly shows up to one of the meetings and says, "He hasn't committed yet, but he wants you to take care of two insurance investigators." "So, all of a sudden, we're like, "Where's this going?" "Take care of, as in." "Well, kill them."

"You didn't want him killed." "He wanted them to kind of be total lessen." "And that would entail what?"

She basically said, "We need to have these two investigators beat up."

"They were investigating him." "And right away, we were assumed it was something to do with his medical profession." "Maybe he's doing something fraud." "But they wanted, you know, they're from an insurance company." "You know, they wanted these two guys beat up and it had to be ASAP."

"And right away, we're like, "Oh, no, this is right in the middle of our investigation." "This could destroy it. They might be testing us."

Detectives wondered if this new job was a way for the couple to see if Markenzy was the real deal.

“"And Kelly asked him, "Are you a police officer?"”

"You're sure they don't bother me." "We believe that they don't think that someone working with the police would actually "have two innocent people just doing their job beat up." "And they were willing to pay quickly to get it done." Kelly and Markenzy had agreed on a $5,000 fee.

She handed him a brown bag filled with $2,500 in cash. Half now, half after the job was done. "You want to make sure they're at a mission for a long time." "Any practicality could have a bigger arm." Detectives Luzanne reached out to the insurance investigators

and discovered why they were in the couple's crosshairs. "I call them."

"It's a listen. I really want to speak to a person. I didn't want to tell them over the phone."

"They said, "Well, we're coming to Rockland anyway because we have an investigation into Ireberg." Luzanne says they were investigating Ira for insurance fraud, suspecting that he'd been patting his insurance claims. "How did these insurance investigators feel when you told them that there's this plot out to have you beat up?" "They couldn't believe it. They were shocked."

"And then they were very concerned." "The detective asked the investigators for their help." "This is where this whole story goes a little bit Hollywood." "Yeah, it literally. We all got together and come up with an idea like, listen, this might sound crazy, but maybe we can get it a makeup artist. Make it look like they were actually beat up."

"How did they react to the idea?"

“"Well, I think one of them was like I had to talk to my wife first, but they agreed."”

Police set up in this parking lot next to the insurance investigators office. They had two undercover officers pretend to throw punches. "We took a lot of pictures of them beating them up, and we had to actually tell the investigators like, don't overdo it, just fight back a little bit." "They took pictures from every angle, then had to choose which ones to show Kelly and Ira." "We're being like editors. We're trying to figure out which looks the most real."

"Right, the most real." "It was funny. We just kept going back and forth on which ones we should choose." "This is a huge moment in our case. If they believe this rose about the beating of the investigators, then we can probably get to the big thing with you, where he's trying to kill Susan." "Anyone that you've done of them are not able to move ahead of that right away." "Now, the pressure was on the car salesman. He texted Kelly to meet him. He had three photos tucked inside a newspaper ready to show her."

"And we had coached him ahead of time, no matter what happens, she's probably going to say I want to take these pictures to Ira." "We don't want Ira to come out. When we need him to start, you don't have to commit." "And no matter what happens, you make sure that the pictures stay with you."

"Everyone was in place. Waiting. Kelly was late. Then she finally showed."

"I'm so sorry, you haven't had been all with a pretty little plan." "With his heart pounding, Mark Kenzie showed her the photos." "That's right, that's a little too much." "So, he wants to make sure that nothing comes to work with a broken leg next week." "No, they're done. What did they do to us?"

"Let's take another baby." "She seems satisfied and just as the detectives predicted, Kelly asked to take the photos to show Ira."

“"I think we're going to get a picture soon."”

"Come on, that's better for you." "Let's have him better for him to have." "So, they got both sides." "Oh, yeah." "Mark Kenzie followed the detectives instructions perfectly."

"But then he came up with an idea all on his own." "He knew law enforcement wanted Ira." "So, we told Kelly to call him." "I love him." "I hear you."

"Hey, that, you want to be girl with me?" "I can show them to her, but I don't want to give it to her." "I believe so." "So, he suggested to Ira that he could swing by his office to show the doctor the photos in person." "We'll come to the office. They're the parking lot."

"Yeah." "That's a good journey." "Hey, listen, you're the boss at this point, you know." "Okay." "Alright, boy."

"Why don't you call her your office at the parking lot?" "Okay." "Alright." "It sounded like the perfect plan." "But is there really ever such a thing?"

"Are you on the edge of your seats when he's pointing to that camera?" "Oh, yeah, he couldn't be with me." "You know, this is it. He's looking right at the camera when we're done." "Hey, guys. Willie guys here. We're celebrating 10 years of Sunday today by hosting a very special Sunday sit-down live event." "And our guest is one of the biggest stars on the planet."

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For now, it was assault for higher.

“Markenzie, the informant, waited outside of Iris Medical Practice to show him pictures of the insurance investigators.”

"This is when you need Ira to come to the car." "Yeah, Ira's already showing his face once already. You know, we need Ira to come out. This is a huge moment in our case." Markenzie convinced Ira to see the proof that the insurance investigators had been beaten up. "We're going to have the doctor look at the pictures and this is going to commit him to the assault any investigators."

"Here are Ira and Kelly walking toward Markenzie's car." "The doctor comes out of his office. He's in his scrubs, goes into the car." "Okay, how are we going? How are you? Over here." "As soon as he got in the car, turn around and I look at her and I say can you excuse us for a minute." "Why did you want her out?"

"To know if he was her, putting the ideas in his head if he was her motivating him to do all that "So she could jump in and then her with the money." "Did she leave?" "Yes, she did." "So you're now a man to man."

"With him, yeah." "What's he saying?" "He said, "You got them." "I'll say yeah, got them." Markenzie showed him the three photos.

But Ira immediately seems suspicious. And he's like, "Why are they wearing baseball cap and you know regular jacket?" "I said, "I don't know." "You're really having to think on your feet." "To distract Ira, Markenzie changed the subject and told him he needed to keep the photos."

"I don't want to give him to you, but I don't need him. I don't need him." "I don't need him." "I don't need him." "I don't need him." "I don't need him."

"I don't need him." At this point, Ira seems satisfied. "He's like, "Okay, good, good." "And we're like, it's a big relief." "Yeah, it's easy."

“"Remember, if he thinks they're fake, now he's really going to think something's up here."”

Detectives had coached Markenzie on what to do after he showed Ira the pictures. "Ask him what's going on at the wife or give him a deadline." "See, listen, it has to be by this time overwalking away." "Yeah, but it has to be his decision. Don't force him to do anything." "So that the big question is when he's the next child."

"To me a week, it's better to be exact." "All right, and I'll give you a little help." "No one will be to push him." "No, I'll give you by this week." "Okay."

"I mean, you'll wait till we get back to him." "Well, at the end of the week, I'll tell you." "Okay." Then, the good doctor said what law enforcement was waiting to hear. "So if I, I'll tell her if he gives you the opportunity, it came from me."

"To detectives ears, Ira was admitting he was the one pulling the strings, not Kelly."

"It was a critical moment."

"But just as they were ready to high-five each other, Ira turned around and pointed to something in the back seat." "Oh, look at the little thing that we're going to see." "He was looking directly at the hidden camera. Are you on the edge of your seats when he's pointing to that camera?" "Oh, yeah, he couldn't be with me." "This is the head. He's looking right at the camera when we're done."

"Do you have a little moment of panic?" "Oh, yeah." "My heart draws drop." "And obviously, my training, I get to pick it right back up." "The more Kenzie does a great job, he leaves back and goes on.

That's something for the kids' games where they plug into it." "The receiver for the headshots." "That's the receiver for the headshots." "That's the receiver for the headshots."

“"Whatever he's I'll tell him, he believes it because the only thing that was in his head is”

how he wants to get this thing done." "Crisis have heard it." "Then, without skipping a beat, I removed onto the details of how Susan should be killed. A agreeing she would be hit by a car." "Well, I'll freak out for that."

"I have been every day." "Right, exactly." "I think they have no problems."

"Very soon, I'll never stop."

"I don't know what I'm talking about." "Nothing." "I get back to you." "All right." "I relieve, but you don't quite have what you need yet."

"You're not all the way there. You haven't crossed the finish line." "Yeah." "They need an eyebrow to give the final okay for his wife's murder." "Five days later, Kelly's set up a meeting." "Finally, she's cool."

"Hey, let's have another talk." "You'll have another meeting at the Walmart." "This is going to be the answer." "It's either a B.S. or no." "If it's a no, it's a good thing for our burned scene."

"Then, you know, he's not going to kill the mother of his children." "You know, so be it." "And part of this were actually, you know, morally." "There was a little part of it that was hoping maybe he won't go that far."

"Tephyne."

"You know, because we did know him and we're hoping maybe he'll say no."

"That's a happier ending." "Right." "So what would the ending be?" "Later that day." "She shows up again in Walmart Parkline. This time she won't get into the car."

"Detectors were worried since Ira may have been on to their hidden camera." "He could have warned Kelly to stay out of the car." "So is that game over?" "No, it's not game over because we have audio on Markenzie himself." "But then she said there was a problem."

"What the?" "He's our people turned." "Huh? Red flag." "What?" "Was the detectives planned about to unravel."

"We're like, we miss it." "We're like, what just happened." "What happened was far more complicated than it seemed."

“"At least that's what Ira and Kelly say."”

"Did you want Susan Bernstein dead?" Standing outside the informants' car, Kelly was about to give their final answer.

A yes or a no for the hit on Susan Bernstein.

Then she hesitated. She told Markenzie, Ira had been checking up on the insurance investigators to make sure they'd actually been beaten up. "I don't have to go, but they're not anymore." "Okay." "So, what's wrong with the door?"

"They're going to send these all off to Paris." "So, now he's power now about what now." "But guys, they can get beat up." "No, they may be, you know, this is just a set-up of something." "Come on, man."

"Despite all of her reservations, detectives listened as Kelly spoke again." "Okay." "Okay." "Oh." "They answered that."

"We don't hear any answer." "We're like, miss it." "We miss it." "Like, we heard him say, "Okay." "Well, what's the next step?"

"We're like, what just happened?"

She's holding up a phone.

She had typed the word "yes." Inside the phone. So, she wasn't verbally going to say it. "Oh, it's not possible." "But it didn't matter.

Detectives now had confirmation. Ira and Kelly were in. And the date was set. The couple believed Susan would be run over in four days. The prosecutor was ready to greenlight their arrests.

"Once Kelly says yes, and agrees to give him money, the investigation is for the most part complete." Detectives moved in on Kelly at the Walmart parking lot. And how did this go down? Was it like a SWAT situation? Was just a couple of officers?

It was, well, there were several officers in plain clothes surrounding the area. But it was just two officers who approached her. She was shocked. Yes, she was shocked. Actually, I went to the door.

“And I said, "I believe you know what this is going to be about."”

When Kelly entered the police station, another staged Hollywood moment was waiting for her. Detectives had Mark Kenzy the informant, handcuffed, sitting in a holding room. She saw him in there.

I saw her eyes, meet his eyes. And I was alright. So now she knows it. She's supposed to hit man's arrested. The gig is up.

Maybe she'll come back and talk to us. They hope that seeing Mark Kenzy in custody might be enough to get Kelly talking. Do you understand each of these rates later? Thank you.

But after reading her her rights. You're in some trouble. I'm not going to lie to you. Kelly let the detectives do most of the talking. They told her she was caught on tape planning the hit.

Then they tried to convince her to turn on Ira. I don't know if you were about him. But right now, Kelly should be worried about Kelly. Right? So right now, are you in trouble, obviously?

You're in a police department. Right? I want you to just focus on, like, on you. I don't want to do what's best for me. Because in the end, you don't want something like you

take all the fault. We know that. Don't make me answer this. Look at me, Kelly. Okay.

It's not too hard. They changed tactics. And revealed that Mark Kenzy had been working undercover with them.

“Well, like, did you see Mark Kenzy as in Mark Kenzy's with us?”

And then, like, we actually bring Mark, we bring Mark Kenzy to the room. What did she say? She was just, like, her job was on the floor. She was, like, shocked. Thank you's with us.

He's not. We just put up there so that you would see that. But he's with us. All right? Is that the truth Mark Kenzy?

It's true. Okay. So I'm not lying to you. All right? All right.

Thanks for talking a little bit. He's not under arrest. Well, so now who's the only one that's here in trouble with him now? Who is it? You.

But instead of coming clean, she blamed Mark Kenzy. Why was he so pressureing off? Why was he? No, no, no, no. Don't even play that act with me.

You did not get pressure. We did everything you can to let you guys walk away from this. When pointing the finger at the car salesman didn't work, Kelly went after I was wife. Susan. And everything went in front of him to divorce her.

She went a bit worse. She would try to get him. I was actually scared for my life. If you look at my phone, I didn't even respond to her messages. She called me all kinds of names.

And all these kinds of nasty things that she would say to me. And she would follow me. And she poured coffee over my coat. My coat is still in the cleaners. She would harass me.

And I never did anything back to her.

Kelly was willing to throw everyone under the bus. Except Iri. Be honest with us. Was that your money? Or was it Iri's money?

Kelly, I understand. Don't make me understand. I know you love him. I understand that. Kelly, do yourself a favor.

Okay? Just be honest. Is that bad to be honest? I'll be honest. I love him.

As he ever said, he loves you. Kelly, you know why I'm asking that? Because I'm on the phone. I was listening. Not one time.

Did I ever hear him say I love you?

A few hours later on his way home from a dinner in New York City. 42-year-old Ira Bernstein was pulled over near his house and arrested. And he was so nervous. He was shaking away. He was saying, my life is over.

My life is over.

“I think he said it's just killing myself at that point.”

Yeah, a little later on that news. All right. We're somebody in a few minutes. What's your knowledge going on? Oh, my God.

How big is this? Is that you? What's that? That's with medicine. I don't know if I'm medicine.

I'm not locking me away for some of the deal with medicine. Is that someone else that does that?

Am I going to get newspapers?

Honestly, I don't know. I can tell you. I'm sure it's on the middle of practice. I'm sure it's on the middle of practice again. Ira and Kelly were charged with conspiracy and solicitation to commit murder.

But if you ask Ira, there is far more to this story. He made it very clear that we were going to be fed to the alligators if we didn't go through with this. While out on bail in 2017, Ira Bernstein agreed to sit down with date line.

There was no way in hell I was ever going to go through with this and hurt Susan. He says the video of him planning his wife's murder was just a snapshot of a bigger picture.

“Yeah, I think the Lesser used to know the baby.”

That there was so much more to the story. Things had reached a horrible point. I was living under horrible stress. The downward spiral began. He says after he and Susan decided to have an open marriage.

And I think we're getting along great, but what she's doing is she's plotting. She cleaned out the bank accounts. She took the jewelry. She took the kids and she went to her parents house in Maryland. After that, Ira says police knocked on his door.

Susan had filed a restraining order. This sheriff gives me 20 minutes to pack my stuff. Whatever I could grab, I am escorted out of my house. I wound up in my parents house living in my old high school bedroom. This is the marriage from hell at this point.

This is now the marriage from hell. Ira says Susan claimed he was physically and verbally abusive to her and their children. I am the least abusive person in the world. I don't even discipline my children. They walk all over me like I'm a teddy bear.

Several months later, Susan withdrew the restraining order. And Ira says she wanted to reconcile. He agreed to try, but soon enough, the fighting flared up. And that's when he fell for Kelly. And at this point, I had already hired her and she's working for me.

What's she doing for you? Everything. She is literally doing everything from scheduling my appointments. We were looking at properties. We were negotiating things.

She was helping run the practice a little bit. And she was helping me in my house too. I mean, she would help me go shopping. She would make sure I had food in the refrigerator. These are all the things she wanted Susan to do.

These are all things that I wanted Susan to do. Susan had other plans. He said she was out to get up. She knew he had a secret. It had to do with insurance fraud.

Susan discovered he'd been over a billing for medical services.

“That's why Ira paid to have those insurance investigators beat up.”

Did you feel like Susan was trying to blackmail you in any way? She was trying to blackmail me in every way. And she would look at me and she would say, "Listen, I have broken into your emails. I have printed out and recorded all of your business dealings.

And I'm telling you now. If you don't give me everything I want, I'm going to the prosecutor. I'm going to expose you for everything and try to put you in jail." Ira recorded Susan threatening him.

"You're the father coming back. You're like a ****.

Ira claimed Susan was using that information to pressure him

into signing a post-nupcial agreement that stated if they divorced. He would give her most of their assets.

“Fearing Susan would make good on her threats.”

He signed it. "Only a moron would have signed this post-nupcial agreement if they weren't under severe coercion and distress." "So you are the moron in this time?" "I am the moron."

This is Ira's version of what happened. We're not sure of Susan's side. She declined to speak to us. Ira says it was during this volatile time that Kelly went looking for a hitman.

He said she met with Markenzie five times before he even knew about the plot.

She had already started negotiating price with him and everything. And I said, "I don't know if I can bring myself to even consider anything like this." "So Kelly did this on her own?" "Yes." She said, "You know, I know people that might do this kind of thing.

And in my frustration, I discussed it with her a little bit." "I do what kind of thing." "Hurt or kill people."

“"I had a conversation with her about it."”

"It was more fantasy." "There was nothing legitimate to it." "What's hard is that a respected doctor was capable of even going down this road." "I don't know what to say. That was not me. That was a different person." "He says the only reason he went along with it was because Markenzie told Kelly it was too late to back out."

"The black ops were in town."

"His friends flew up from Florida. They're mad that they're waiting around. They think that we're playing around with them. And she doesn't think we can back out of this now." "This is real now." "This is real now." "I reclaimed Markenzie told Kelly during an impromptu meeting without cameras."

"About a terrifying story involving a former client of his who wanted out." "He said to her, "My job is to pick her up at a party. "Lore her away. Bring her to the other guys. "And they are going to be feeding her to the alligators for playing around." "And he made it very clear that we were going to be fed to the alligators."

"If we didn't go through with this." "You did have another option. You could have just paid them the money and walked away." "We thought about that. It was a hundred thousand dollars that he wanted at that point." "I don't think they would have went away and we both came to the same conclusion." "But isn't it easier though to just not kill someone and walk away and take the money?"

"Yes, at the time we did not feel it that was an option. We didn't feel they were going to stop." "I did admit to paying to have those insurance investigators beat up." "I made the biggest wrong decision of my life which was to put the welfare of myself, "of the welfare of those investigators, and to allow them to be subjected to getting hurt." "What would you say to them?"

"I don't even know what I could say to them." "What I did was disgusting. I will live with that forever." "Thank God this is all sham and nothing happened." "Did you ever think that you could have been part of a sting operation?" "You know the weird thing is I was almost hoping it was part of a sting operation at that point

because I wanted to get out of this so badly." "Why should people believe you?" "People could think, yeah, he's just trying to change his story now because he got caught." "Anyone that knows me knows that I am not a violent person,

“and I really believe that Susan knows me for 23 years,”

and even she knows there is no way I would have ever let this happen." "You've heard Iris story. Now you'll hear from the woman at the center of it all." "Did you both imagine life without Susan?" "Of course, and what was that life without her?" "Around. Peaceful."

36-year-old Kelly Gribbleck was also out on bail in 2017 when she agreed to speak to us. Just like her boyfriend Ira, Kelly says her story begins with a marriage from hell. In her early 20s, she joined the Hasidic Jewish community in Rockland County, New York. That's where she met her future husband. Was it a matchmaker situation?

Yes, arranged? Yes. Because she didn't grow up in the ultra-orthodox community, she says it affected who the matchmaker chose for her. So you got like a low-level pick, is that what you're saying? "You know, I guess that they would choose somebody on a lower pedigree.

I only learned that later. There were a lot of things I learned later. You were clearly not a good match." Clearly. He had some deeper issues that I didn't find out until later, unfortunately. Still, she and her mismatch husband had three boys.

This is what you wanted. Yes. How happy were you? I was very content with my children. I love taking care of them. I love the time we spent together.

She says eventually, the marriage became so toxic. She decided to leave the religious community and take her sons with her. But a judge wouldn't allow it and gave her husband primary custody.

Everything you went through with your ex-husband?

Definitely. It was very traumatic. I lost a lot of trust in the, in the justice system. I feel like it really failed me and my children. Then you met Ira.

I met him while I was still married actually. He was my doctor. After her divorce, Kelly, so she reached out to Ira to discuss her latest adventure. Her orthotic business. We right away, hit it off and there was a spark.

And so you're meeting him just for business reason. Correct. But something else happens. Yes.

What do you think it was?

Chemistry. He was going through something very similar. And we came to realize that we had a lot of things in common. The one flying the ointment, if you will, was his relationship with his soon-to-be ex-wife.

Yes. Was not good. No. And I tried to get them to work things out amicably because I went through a horrendous divorce. And I didn't want to see it tear apart another family.

So when Ira told her, he was going to give his marriage another chance. I wanted them to do it was best for their family.

“Why was it so important for you to see him try to work it out with his wife when you're in love with him?”

Because love is supposed to be unselfish. And you should want the best for the other person. Not what's right for you. So I really truly loved him. And I thought that whatever would make him happy is what I wanted for him.

She said she not only stopped seeing Ira. She met with Susan to wish her the best. Did it start off friendly? Yeah, we got along. At the end of the conversation, she actually said to me if it doesn't work out between me and Ira.

I want to see him end up with you. I think you're really good for him. Months later, the reconciliation with Susan wasn't going well. Ira ran back to Kelly. Nobody was happy.

Kelly says, especially Susan. Kelly says she saw firsthand how Susan's rage could take a toll on Ira. He was having panic attacks, couldn't sleep at night. Nightmares. Why do you have the conversation about what if Susan wasn't here on this earth anymore?

I was around that time, who brings it up? I guess we both were at that point. I wanted to be so good if she just didn't come home or she wasn't in the picture. It was a horrible, horrible thought that I believe that every person has in their lifetime. I don't think that we're evil for having such a thought.

I think the big difference is you both actually crossed over from just thinking about it to do something about it. Unfortunately, we did. Did you worry about those kids not having their mom? I did. But it didn't stop you.

“Why was this more important than those kids having their mom?”

Because I saw someone that I loved being hurt and it was not going to come to an end.

She was never going to stop.

Did you both imagine life without Susan? Of course. And what was that life without her? Around. Peaceful.

She admits she was the one who went hunting for a hitman and says it wasn't until after she started negotiating with Mark Hensey that she told Ira. Did he give you the green light though to keep going? He didn't tell me not to. He wasn't sure what to do.

He's very indecisive with every aspect of his life. Like Ira, Kelly claims they had a change of heart and tried to stop the hit. But there was a problem. Did you say to Mark Hensey, we don't want to do this? Yeah, I told him.

And what do you say? He said, "There's no backing out." Kelly also told us the story about the oligators. He explains to me that he has to pick up a girl and bring her to the men. And they're going to be feeding her to oligators.

“Did you take that as they could feed us to the oligators?”

Absolutely. Kelly says she and Ira decided to back out anyway. Did you want Susan Bernstein dead? In the beginning, yes. But at the end, no.

We both came to our senses. We're like this is crazy. We're not doing this. I think people are going to have a hard time believing that you really didn't want it to go through after everything you had done to set the plan in motion.

If we really wanted to do this, he would have been paid.

And he never transferred any money.

He never withdrew any money.

“When I was arrested, I had a dial around me.”

And you were supposed to have 48,000. And that's when a car pulls up behind you. Correct. And it's the police. Kelly says she was stunned by the arrest.

And what she learned at the police station later about Mark Kenzie. That he wasn't a hitman. I was in shock. What are you saying to yourself? Like, how could I have believed this?

It was a horrible feeling. And I was kind of relieved. I was relieved that nobody was hurt. And why should people believe you that you were relieved, since you went through with it?

Because I'm sitting here today. And I'm remorseful. And I'm sorry. And I'm acknowledging that my actions. And my thoughts were horrible.

Is that why you chose to sit down with us? Yes.

“But was she remorseful enough to help the prosecutor?”

He was about to offer her a deal. Would she save herself and agree to be as star witness? Or would she continue to protect the man she loved? Kelly seems like she has this fierce loyalty to Ira. She certainly does.

Prosecutor Moran thought Ira Bernstein might have made a misstep. I reposted bail and was out of jail in four days. But Kelly sat behind bars for five months. Why didn't Ira bail her out? Yes, she'd have to ask him.

She might have the same question. The prosecutor figured Kelly was angry at Ira and might roll on him. He offered her a deal while she was still in jail. In exchange for testifying against Ira, she would get 12 years in prison with a chance for parole and four.

Kelly took the deal. Her attorney, Jonathan Rips, told us why. If she were convicted after trial,

“I'm fairly confident that the judge would give her a close to the max,”

which would be eight and a third to 25 years, and that's an awfully long time. Please deal with felt safe. Anything involving state prison that is years and length is going to be an ugly number, but the alternative had there been a conviction would have been much more drastic. As Ira's case headed toward trial,

it looked like his strategy was to blame it all on his girlfriend.

He claimed he never gave the go ahead to have his wife murdered.

That was all Kelly. She came home on that evening and she told me she had to tell him yes. So she went rogue on you, you're saying. I pretty much. The prosecutor says Ira was rewriting history.

The evidence told the real story. When you look at the meetings and you listen to them, Kelly couldn't make one decision. Ira was the one calling the shots. Was she the person who was the conduit?

Sure. But in the end, Ira had a goal. This was all about money in your eyes. Yes. He believes Ira had no intention of honoring that post-nupcial agreement.

The one where he consented to give Susan most of their assets if they divorced. Ira Bernstein was a man who wanted to keep everything that in his eyes. He worked so hard for. And he was going to do what he had to do. Whether it be having insurance investigators beat up or having his wife killed.

The cornerstone really of the defense of cases that Ira tried to call it off at the end. But that there were threats. If you don't go through with this, harm could come to you. That's simply not the case. In fact, after they claimed they were subject to the rest,

they actually hire him to do the other job to beat up the two men. And he says nowhere on the tapes or in text messages did Ira and Kelly say they changed their minds about killing Susan.

Even if they did change their mind, they never called the police to tell the police,

"Hey, there's a hitman out there hired to kill Susan." They never called Susan to say, "Watch out, they did nothing." And Moran says there was another indicator that Ira and Kelly plan to go through with the murder. On the day that Kelly told the informant, "Yes, she called and made dinner reservations for the entire doctor's office for May 5th." And that was the day that Susan was going to be run over.

Yeah, may help you. Hi, I need reservations last night for single denial. And I was in sure if I told you 730 or 8 o'clock. It's an alibi. Kelly and Ira wanted everybody from work to see that they were with them acting normal when Susan got killed.

But then, a major problem.

“After Kelly got out of jail, instead of rolling on Ira,”

she moved in with him. Kelly seems like she has this fierce loyalty to Ira. She certainly does. Kelly was now too much of a wild card. So instead of going to trial, the prosecutor offered Ira a deal.

15 years in prison, eligible for parole in five. There was a real defense here. Ira's attorney, Jeff Millman, says even though he believed Ira had a strong defense. He knew going before a jury could be a gamble. Here you have two people who've been talking about planning a murder,

and then you're supposed to take their word for it that they were trying to call it off. It's one of the obstacles of trial, absolutely. And there were Ira's other charges, insurance fraud, and ordering the assault on those investigators. 2016.

So we accepted the deal and pleaded guilty to grand larceny and conspiracy involving the plot to kill his wife. We resolved everything with the play. All financial investigations, all crimes alleged to have been committed. As for his estranged wife Susan, the intended target, she said her piece that Ira sentencing.

She requested not to be on camera. Ira is evil and cold-hearted and a narcissist. The only remorse Ira has is that the murder did not occur. He is the scariest type of criminal, smart with no remorse. But Ira told us he is remorseful.

For all the pain he's caused his family, especially his children. I love my children very much. What I did was wrong. I will spend every day if the rest of my life thinking it up. To them.

“So what would his and hers prisons do to Ira and Kelly's relationship?”

It depends on who you ask. I don't know where this is going to go. I know I still care about her a lot. I'm hoping we can get through this. The only good thing that came out of this was that we've both come to the realization that we really love each other.

Kelly believed they'd stay together. Some people call this a twisted love story. I think it's true love. I think what we did was really, really wrong. And if I could go back, I would do everything differently.

But I can't. And I can see clearly that my emotions definitely overrule my intelligence. Why do you think that love is still there? Because after everything that we've been through, we're still devoted to each other and care about each other.

And a solid relationship. That's what Kelly said in 2017.

“She and Ira both spent four years in prison.”

But it appears only one of them learned their lesson. To say that this case took a turn, no one expected is really the understatement of my career. Nobody saw this coming. After spending four years behind bars,

both Ira and Kelly were released in 2021.

Finally, free to be together again.

How did Kelly feel when she got out? Because when she went in, she was saying that this was true love. And that they would be together. She wanted absolutely nothing to do with him.

Kelly's lawyer, Jonathan Rips, says when she was in prison, she learned Ira tried to pin the whole thing on her. Ira had gone through the appellate process and a lot of his emotions involved throwing Kelly under the bus that she was the mastermind.

That was something that broke her heart. He says Kelly has moved on. Started a few small businesses and is close with her children. They're all basically adults now, and she's got contact with them on a daily basis.

And the children are doing okay. They're all doing very, very well. Meanwhile, Ira and Susan continue to battle it out in court.

He and Susan never got divorced,

even within those four years that he was in prison. Their divorce was still ongoing. Detective Peggy Braddock had captabs on Ira over the years. We get out right now. Ever since her involvement in the 2017 investigation.

And I pretty good shot him. That's a long divorce proceeding. Yes. Money and assets were still at the center of their ongoing feud. Ira's felony conviction hadn't gotten in the way of his lavish lifestyle.

He's living in a very big mansion in New Jersey. Life is good for Ira. He even had a new girlfriend. What he didn't have anymore was his medical license. So in 2022, Ira went into the landscaping business.

But even not presented its challenges.

So yet to work under somebody else's license. That's somebody was a landscaper. Ira had used in the past. They partnered up and Ira took on the role of manager. So he controlled all the money and he controlled the accounts.

The accepted all payments from clients.

The landscaper had relinquished that control basically to Ira.

Detective Braddock says that turned out to be a big mistake for the landscaper. He claimed a large amount of money went missing from the company. The landscaper says that Ira stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from him. He stated that Ira basically stole his business from him. A business that he had created from the ground up.

The landscaper should have watched Dateline. I believe he did to be honest.

“But I think he still went into business with him.”

He believed Ira's version that he was tricked by Kelly Grubbillek. And I was all Kelly's idea. The landscaper was now certain. He'd been duped, especially after what happened next. To say that this case took a turn.

No one expected is really the understatement of my career. Correct. Nobody saw this coming. The landscaper said he had been listening to Ira complain about Susan and the contentious divorce for months. Ira would tell him that his wife was trying to take him for everything.

She wanted to take his houses.

She had turned his kids against him.

The detective says Ira had a solution that sounded eerily familiar. Incredibly she says he asked the landscaper if he could find someone to kill Susan. Did your jaw drop? Yes. It was shocking.

It was disturbing. And to be honest, I didn't think he would be foolish enough to try that again. This was August 2022. One year after Ira had gotten out of prison. And several years after he told us this.

I love my children very much. What I did was wrong. I will spend every day if the rest of my life picking it up. It's almost something like, are you sure? Because this doesn't sound possible.

Right. The landscaper saw it as an opportunity. If he could get Ira on tape planning his wife's murder. He could use that recording to convince Ira to walk away from the landscaping business.

And maybe get some of his money back.

So the landscaper is really taking matters into his own hands. He was. He ordered recording the wife's on his own. And then he had tried to record the conversation himself. He was asking the landscaper if he had friends or people that he knew who could do this.

And the landscaper said that he did. Does Ira just think that everybody has friends who are assassins. Apparently. I know I can make out. On the recording.

Ira sounded worried. They'd get caught. You're kidding me. What are you doing? What are you doing?

What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing?

What are you doing? What are you doing? You don't say that. You just clearly there is a lot more factors than we're 15 to 20 years into this. Libraries.

There's a lot of things out there that they don't see in the ears. They watch 20 walks away and they see someone over there. These guys are profession. Once they grab her. I don't know what's going to happen.

Why know is that she's got one bag on her.

“Can they give some more on certain stages for them?”

You don't say. Like they say they like listen. You're the ex husband. You're a sort of a domestic word. You can't pull.

You will try this once. What did the landscape or do with those recordings? He called Ira and told him he had a recording of the conversation. Oh. Did Ira say anything to the landscape or?

I believe he just hung up on him. And then immediately Ira called his sister and his sister called the landscape. The landscape for yes. Ira's younger sister, 39 year old Jacqueline Goldberg met the landscape or at a local restaurant. He started to play the recordings.

But he wasn't able to do that on his laptop. The laptop wasn't working. So she never heard it. Jacqueline, who's a lawyer, had now created a problem for herself. So now she's all wrapped up in this.

His sister is now as well. Yes. The landscape or moved on to plan B. He didn't go to the police. My instead.

He went straight to the target. Susan. And I am a certified high-conflict divorce and custody coach. Who's apparently made a career out of her experience with Ira. Reach out if you have an ex that is narcissistic, toxic, unsteady.

Unfable. Her mind must be blown when she sits down. She was shocked. With the landscape or yes. That she's in danger.

Yet again. Yes. Susan immediately contacted the Rockland County District Attorney's office with this new information. And spoke with someone in the District Attorney's office. Who passed the information on to me.

“That's how detective Braddock got the case.”

And started unraveling the dark details. She reached out to Susan. I called her and spoke with her. What was your advice to Susan during this time while you're investigating?

So she knew to call the police if anything was out of the ordinary. She's a very smart person. Since the landscape or had already tipped off Ira to his secret recordings. The detective says another undercover sting was out of the question. Ira had shut off all communication at that time and it just didn't seem probable.

You know, we tried to make it controlled phone call to him and he wouldn't pick up the phone. So no Hollywood this time around. Unfortunately now. Instead, detectives focused on phone records and other digital evidence to solidify their case. Eight months later, Ira once again was charged with criminal solicitation,

tampering with evidence and conspiracy.

“Were you at the sheriff's department when he came in?”

Yes. What's his demeanor? The look on his face. It was just like it was another day for him. He didn't seem stressed at all.

His sister was charged with tampering with physical evidence, hindering prosecution and conspiracy. They both pleaded not guilty and were free to go. How did you find out that Ira was trying again to have Susan killed? I mean, I still have a few friends in the force and the police department. So everybody was reaching out.

What is your reaction when you hear that? I was sad and I really felt for Susan trying the best that she can't raise the kids. And Ira has a selfish person. What's everything for himself? Detective Braddock and the DA's office prepared for trial.

“Did they have enough evidence to send Ira Bernstein back to prison?”

And keep him there?

As law enforcement prepared for trial, they knew this case wasn't as clear cut as the first time Ira got caught trying to have his wife murdered.

The recording was done by the landscape of himself and it was a little bit difficult to hear at times. It wasn't clear. Their case was built on those scratchy recordings and on what police learned from phone records. Any text messages that were a value to you? Yes.

There was a text message I believe to Ira where he tells him he has the recording. And there was definitely a text message to Ira's sister back and forth regarding the recording as well. The detective says those texts backed up the landscape of story. That Ira and his sister Jacqueline wanted the recordings destroyed and exchanged for giving him back control of the company. Jacqueline wrote, "It's important to know that if he signs over the business,

are you willing to do what you said earlier and get rid of the recording?" So this is just further proof, you're gathering. Yes, this is something to substantiate. Detective Braddock believed Ira and his sister would fight the charges.

I felt that he had already gone to prison once more than likely he wouldn't want to go back a second time.

Also because of his sister, meaning because she had a lot to lose. She's an attorney, she hadn't lost anything yet, and this was big for her. While both sides prepared for trial, two significant things happened. After a seven-year battle, Ira and Susan were finally divorced. And then, Ira remarried.

Who married him? His girlfriend at the time of the investigation married him. After who was arrested. Now Ira was back in court, but not for a trial. He was ready to make a deal.

Again, it was the summer of 2025, and Ira looked different. He appeared in court without his two pay. He actually took his two pay off.

“I believe when he went in prison the first time.”

Apparently he went to the gym and started working out. So when he went to prison, he wouldn't be as big a target.

And when he came out of prison, he never put the two pay back on.

Under this new agreement, Ira would plead guilty to tampering with evidence. In exchange, the conspiracy and solicitation charges would be dropped. But that didn't stop the prosecutor from getting Ira to own up to what he'd done. "Do you also admit that the way you're reported was the harsh to a solicitation to have Susan mercy and counsel?" Yes.

Ira had to admit that the tampering with evidence was in connection to wanting his wife dead. Why was that important to the case? Because even if he wasn't actually being charged with the solicitation, he needed to be held accountable, that he was asking somebody to have his wife killed. "What were you saying about doing this?"

In March of 2026, Ira arrived for his sentencing. "We're moving on the first hit of the diploma that I talked to again." "What were you thinking?" "Why would you do this again?" "Do you have anything to say to Susan?"

"All right." The judge gave Susan a chance to say her peace.

First, she went after Ira.

“"He is a multi-millionaire who hired top attorneys to weasel his way out of his violent and harsh crimes”

to get himself the best possible plea bargain deal." She even went after Ira's sister. "Jacklin failed to intervene and report him to law enforcement or warn me or my children. Similar to him, she has no soul and used her wealth for a plea deal. My children and I live in a state of crisis.

I thank God every night to the two men that he attempted to hire to have me killed. These men didn't know me, but recognized his evil. "Mr. Bernstein, boy." When it was Ira's turn to speak, he addressed Susan directly and denied asking any one to harm her.

“"I never asked or solicited him to hurt you in any way.”

I never wanted to have you harmed and I said no to him."

With that, the judge gave his ruling. "You were here by sentence to an indeterminate term of one and a half to three years in state prison." He also issued an order of protection for Susan and her three children until 2037. "You were to have absolutely no contact or communication with any of these individuals. Do you understand that?"

As for Jacqueline, she agreed to an adjournment contemplating dismissal, which means her charges will be dropped if she steers clear of violating the law for six months. "Is she able to practice law?" "Yes." "Really?" Ira and the Landscaper sued each other in civil court. The case was dismissed, but the Landscaper got his business back and did.

Ultimately did. "Happy ending for him?" "Yes." Ira's legal troubles aren't over. "It is a daily struggle for me and my three young children."

Susan is currently suing the siblings for emotional distress. Years earlier, she spoke about how deeply the murder for higher plot affected her life. "It's a nightmare, an awful and disgusting."

“"I think for a lot of people watching this, it's hard to imagine hating someone that much that you would want them killed not once, but possibly twice."”

"I think for Ira it's all about winning and it's all about money. His well-being and his comfort in happiness was more important than hers. It's all about Ira." "The defendant is remanded to the custody of the Department of Corrections." "Thank you."

"He is expected to be led out of prison in 2029. And then Susan will be looking over her shoulder again. I think Susan will always have to look over her shoulder, whether he's out of prison or not. She always needs to be careful."

Markenzie, the man who helped stop the hit on Susan the first time, says he will always have her back.

She's a friend of yours now. "Yeah, we met with speak from time to time, highly-deage, the kids. She's a wonderful person. I would do it all over again for her, you know, for anybody." "That's all for this edition of Date Line.

And don't forget to check out our Talking Date Line podcast which will go behind the scenes of tonight's episode. Available Wednesday and the Date Line feed wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you again next Friday at 9/8 central. I'm Lester Holt, for all of us at NBC News. Good night."

Murder in San Francisco, Date Line, Friday, 9/8 central, only on NBC.