Talking Dateline: Take Two

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We have behind-the-scenes bloopers and outtakes from our conversation. Hope you'll listen and follow the drink wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone. I'm Blaine Alexander and today we are talking date line. I'm here with the one and only Andrea Canning. Hi, Andrea. Hey, Blaine. Good to see you. We're here to talk about your episode Take 2. This case truly has just about everything and undercover sting hidden cameras, a murder for higher plot and a twist and investigator say that they almost never see.

So if you haven't listened to this episode yet, it's the one right below this one or you can go watch it on peacock. So go there, watch or listen and then come right back here. And when you come back, we'll play a moment from Andrea's interview with detectives that didn't make it into our broadcast. All right, Andrea. Let's talk date line. Let's do it. This one was, I mean, I think we say this at every talking date line, but this one truly was. This was wild. This was all over the place. I didn't know what to expect almost from the very first second the episode started. This one was insane.

It really was, I mean, yeah, this is like what you call like a wild roller coaster, you know, of a case and it really felt like a movie. So Andrea, just in case folks haven't seen it or before we get into our discussion, just kind of summarize this form. You give me a quick version of what happened in this episode. Yeah, I mean, this is about a couple Susan and I were burnedstein who had troubles in their marriage for quite a while. They had three kids and Ira claims he's working like crazy to pay the bills because they have an extravagant lifestyle.

Then he is reunited with a patient Kelly for a book. Kelly is a collective career, mortician, former mortician, model. Now she's like selling shoe orthotics. So she comes to Iran. She says I want you to help me with this shoe business. They started a fair next thing. You know, they are plotting to have Susan killed and they went to the wrong person. They went to Markenzy because Markenzy decided, you know what, I'm going to bring you to down because this is wrong. So Markenzy was responsible along with the police for stopping the plot to have Susan killed.

Ira and Kelly go off to prison. Ira comes out and what does he do? He starts talking about killing his wife again in saying. Yeah, and also chooses again someone who does not want to be a part of this, a landscaper. He's like, no, thankfully Ira picks badly for assassins. So let's talk. I mean, let's just break down everything that you just said right there.

One, this is such a different type of date line episode because there is not actually a death, right? Like we're talking about two murder quads, but they never actually come to fruition thankfully.

“And I think a big piece of this is thanks to Markenzy the first time around, right?”

Oh, yeah. Like the fact that somebody comes to him and says, hey, do you know how to kill somebody? I mean, some people could have just said no, I don't know how to do that. And just gone about their business, right? Not gotten involved with the police carry trying to bring this person down. It would be scary to, you know, if someone's serious about that. Also, Wayne, would you be like a little offended if someone thought that either you could kill someone or that you have friends who killed people?

Like, is there something about me? Like, where are you picking me to? I don't, you know, oh, well, I think I thought about that with Markenzy because he and you asked if you were like, why did you say something maybe then made her think? And he said something like, oh, if you're not happy like we can help or I know someone who could take care of something like that, but it was a rather large leap to get to think so. And you know, I've got to know Markenzy a little bit, you know, through this story because now, you know, I reinterviewed him and he's such a nice man.

Like, he's really, I just found him to be really sweet. He's a father.

Right. He seemed, I was really just struck by how much time he spent trying to bring this case down. There were so many meetups he had to have his car wired. And then you said not only did he go and meet up with her repeated times in these parking lots, he had to go meet with investigators like 45 minutes beforehand. So we're talking about a dad of kids like that's a big chunk of time to kind of devote. It was a lot of work and not only that he's really putting himself in danger too because if these people are willing to have someone killed.

“You know, now you're messing around with with people capable of murder, right?”

And then there's that moment that everyone I feel like talks about with this story and it's that moment where I returns in the car. And he sees a camera or something. He's, was that a camera? And it's like hard pounding, right? Because you're like, oh my gosh, he's about to figure this out. And Markenzie thinking on his feet is like, oh, it's for the kids games or whatever, and I retortly buys it. Markenzie was brilliant by the way. He was the right person for this.

I mean, there are multiple times when he really thought on his feet, you know? And also like, it shows you like, I remember it really doesn't trust his gut. He sees this thing and he's on the right track that something's a mess. But he ignores his gut. He's like, oh well, maybe it's fine. You know, I have to say you describe this as a movie at the beginning.

“This is maybe the first one and a while that I can remember that I really felt like I was watching a movie.”

Kind of pit in my stomach or like that sort of nervousness or like, oh my god, what's going to happen next? Is he going to get found out? And that was just, I mean, that was present throughout almost the entire thing.

Yeah, and I love hearing it from your perspective as someone who's seeing it for the first time.

You know, because we get so close to our stories and this is the second time I've done it because we had this major update. So for me, I know everything that's coming. So I love hearing it from you. You know, as a first time viewer to really feel those like twists and turns. And I mean, imagine being Susan, you know, we we talk about this like, oh, it could be a movie and you know, all of these twists and turns. But like, poor Susan, you know, just she had a target on her back twice.

And I, the fear that you would have, you know, looking over your shoulder and going to sleep at night and it's real, you know. A target on her back from her husband, mind you. I mean, that's just at the worst feeling. I want to you brought up a good point. I want to kind of like bring in for our viewers who don't necessarily know how we do our stories.

I mean, we are always so busy with our stories of our own at many different times.

But a lot of times we don't know what each of us has going on, right? So a lot of times it's a big surprise for us too. And I have to say that when I was watching just the previews in the very beginning, I knew that it took place over some amount of years because I saw your hair change. I watched I saw the difference. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And I, when I had this, this has been what I have to watch it again.

I was like, oh, is that good? Is that, is that bad? I'm like, you know, you just kind of have that like, what was I thinking? I don't know. I mean, it's not the worst, but I think my hair feels better now. They were not, they were not bad at all. It's just one of those things that I feel like you and I only have and like the guys don't have to do it when they do stories of the course of however many years. There has ever changed. So yeah. No one could tell. No one could tell. But in watching it, that was kind of my first tell of like, okay, this place over in a amount of time.

Can you just talk a little bit about what it's like to follow a story for that long and then have such a major update as you had in this story?

“Simply, and I've had deadlines with multiple pregnancies. That's how many years are passing?”

Well, we talk about hair styles, but let's talk about babies, too. It's just interesting how like things change. You know what I mean? Like so many things change, but you're still on the case. And in this case, when our producer Lynn Keller told me that Ira was accused of trying to kill Susan again. My jaw dropped. To hear something like that is like, what are you thinking? And then when I confronted him at court for the sentencing for the second one, he says to me, like, you know, I asked him if he wanted to stop and talk.

And he says, why would I talk to you? You screwed me over the first time. Parafraising. I can't remember exactly what he said.

But like, really? I screwed you over. How about you screwed yourself over, buddy? You can never get inside the minds of folks, but the interview was very fair.

Like you gave him a chance to say everything that he needed to say, he got his side out. I mean, look, you know, we are journalists. We try to stay neutral and, you know, unbiased, but I can honestly sit here and tell you,

It's just he, everybody even went in his sentencing.

And by the way, funny story about the sentencing, too. I was sitting there in the courtroom, and I'm, you know, I'm kind of on my phone waiting and just looking at my phone.

“And someone like passes me or whatever. And I honestly was like really engrossed in like something I was reading.”

And I look up from my phone, and I'm in the front row, and I look up and I was sitting right next to me in the courtroom. What? Yeah, he's right beside me. It was just so weird. And we both looked at each other. And he had, did he say anything?

No, but he'd already made that comment, like outside going in, you know? And something else, as he was actually, we were waiting for him, obviously at the courthouse, right?

We knew his sentencing was at 2 o'clock. And I, I see these two men walking and I'm like pretty far away, but I was like, that's not Ira. Like those are like two attorneys or something. Like there's no way that's Ira. And then I see Logan or associate producer running. And I'm like, okay, wait, Logan knows something I don't. Like what? Wait, guys, go outside now. Like Logan's running. So we run outside. And then I'm looking and I'm looking and I'm like, I actually pretty good eyesight from far away. And yet I still didn't know.

And it was Ira. And so he didn't wait. He had dark glasses on. He was his, his two pay was gone. So that we're like scrambling and, you know, he comes up and then, of course, he made his, his nice little comment to me. Sorry, I got off track because, oh, yeah, I was telling him, I'm being, you know, playing the victim. Because even in his statement, his, during his sentencing, he blamed the landscaper that it was all the landscapers fall. And I'm thinking what, like, you know, take some responsibility. Yeah, yeah.

When we come back, we'll hear a moment from Andrea's interview with detectives that reveals another shocking idea investigators say Ira had for targeting Susan. Guys, will you guys hear? We're celebrating 10 years of Sunday today by hosting a very special Sunday sit down live event in our guests as one of the biggest stars on the planet, Ryan Reynolds. We're taking our conversation to the stage in front of an audience of you for one night only at city winery in New York on April 7th and intimate in person evening.

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“You know, I think what's you, you talked about his victim mentality and that was so apparent that was so apparent really from the first moment that we heard him speaking.”

Because I was just floored at the way that he described Susan, like, oh, she's lazy. She doesn't do anything. She just takes care of the kids. I'm the one who's out here working. I'm the one who's keeping up our lifestyle and I'm thinking to myself like this man has a very low understanding of just what it takes to raise kids. So you know what I mean? Being a state at home, like the whole thing was just so he had such a clear contempt for her from the very beginning before we even knew what his role in all of this was.

Absolutely. And you, you just hear in her, through her words, the pain that it caused her, you know, the fear that she lives in like with 24 hours a day.

And she just said, she basically said, like, you destroyed our life this life that we had.

And he did divorce is hard enough on children, but not just divorce, but, but then dad's trying to kill mom. And it also shows that he didn't learn his lesson, right? So even after he gets out of prison, especially after it's like, hey, might he come back for a third. He's not somebody who is easily dissuaded from this thing that he wants to do. And the judge called it mind boggling, the judge said that he was confused how someone could do this.

“I think we all are like, like, why would you, why would you do this again?”

Yeah, yeah, there were a lot of twists in this one. I mean, in addition to just that in and of itself. But let's talk about Markenzie, when you sat down and talked with him, it was clear that you all had such a great report that you really got to know each other well. But that he had this kind of sense of, I just want to do what's right, no matter what. Did he ever get a bit give any sense? Like, was he nervous during this process? Like, just kind of what were his inner thoughts? I mean, yeah, he, like, he seemed pretty cool about it. He just has kind of a laid back vibe to him.

So there really was none of that where he's like, you know, I thought my life could be over at any moment or it wasn't, it was, it was, he's pretty cool under pressure. I was going to ask where if he was still selling cars or there were just so many skills of his that he found that he would be really good at under cover work or so many other things.

Yeah, he's still, he's still in the car business. It was good to catch up with him again.

“Of course. Let's talk about just this notion of an undercover operation, right?”

I mean, the wiring of the car, the having to meet up, the realization, I think what was interesting is that he could walk up to the line, but he couldn't do too much because he couldn't, you know, try and convince them to do something. How fascinating are those sting cases to you? I know that you went undercover in an episode yourself, right? Wow, that was a long, open heart that was a long time ago.

My gosh, yes, I was pregnant for real, and it was an adoption story. And it was myself and an AP who both pretended to be pregnant to meet with this adoption lady who worked for an adoption agency.

And I was trying to basically sell my baby.

And I was saying, you know, what if I'm using drugs? Do I have to put that on the application? And she's like, no, you can leave it off. Oh my gosh. So, that was, I was nervous though.

You want to talk about heart pounding? My heart was pounding, like during the adoption undercover. I was like, yeah, like the thumb, the thumb, the thumb, like, and she knew, though, what was interesting. Kind of just like, Ira, you know, where he was, his instincts were sort of like halfway there. Like this woman, she, um, was halfway there. She knew something was up.

Interesting. Wow. I'm curious what happened with that. Well, um, we ended up telling her we were from date line. And she got up and she, like, went away, like, went to her car. And then the crazy thing is though, she actually came to New York and did a follow-up interview.

What a wild story. Yeah. So I, I, I know that for me, just watching undercover operations on TV in your episode in movies. I get nervous. So I can't imagine actually doing what of those. I mean, it really was heartbreaking though, because she, people were being promised children. And what is laying where mom's like, what would be more heartbreaking than you're expecting to get, you know, your child to bring your child home. And then this woman after years of great.

And then this woman is saying, oh, sorry, they chose someone else.

“Meanwhile, it's all scammed. You know, it was, it was really, that's why we called it Hope and Heartbreak.”

Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, this, I mean, people should go back and watch that one as well. Yeah. So let's get back to podiatrists. Let's talk about Ira himself. I mean, we talked about him a little bit. But the, I think the funniest thing I actually laughed out loud when you revealed that he was the official foot doctor, official podiatrist for the police department. I mean, and well, these guys have been patients of his and like, and the meetings are happening like in the parking lot, like next to the police department.

It's so funny because the morning our original show aired. Yeah. So I was on another date line where I'd injured my like ankle foot getting out in a snowstorm, getting out of a police car.

And it just wouldn't heal. So finally, I broke down and made an appointment with the podiatrist.

And it happened to be the morning that our show was airing. And so I took a picture with the podiatrist and like put it on Twitter. And I accidentally, this is so bad. I accidentally called him. I reversed him in the in the Twitter post. Like, I just somebody like quickly corrected me, but I was like, Oh, my gosh. Sorry. Like, right?

Right. Like, please don't sue me. I messed up. Just a normal good doctor. Yeah. That's hilarious. What a coincidence for a timing for your appointment timing. Oh, my goodness. But let's talk about Kelly.

“The dynamic between Kelly and Kelly and Ira, but just Kelly herself, right?”

I'm curious what it was like for you to sit down with her. I don't even know how to explain her.

Like, I've never met anyone like her where she did such a bad thing.

And then it was almost like, it wasn't that bad or something with talking to her. And also her loyalty to Ira where, you know, she's like, no, we're in love. And this is happening and he's like my guy. And you know, and then he makes her sit in jail for four months. Well, he bales out in like four days or whatever. Right.

It was strange to me. I mean, a number of things, but one just watching her be the one to kind of be this. I mean, she was like his shield, right? Like she acted as his protector. This kind of like, well, we just need to be sure. And, you know, clearly she was the one sticking her neck out. And he was kind of, you know, saying in the background. But just this notion of like, there's this successful clearly very well off doctor.

Yeah. It's all wrong. And she was so in love with him. But she from what I understand, you know, from her attorney is really trying to get her life back together. And, you know, her relationship with her children.

“I think she's hopefully learned her lesson if Ira hasn't.”

Hopefully Kelly has. Yeah. Yeah. And then let's talk about Susan.

I think the thing about the story that just at the very end, when we finally heard from Susan,

but that she asked even in the courtroom that there were no cameras on her. If that just broke my heart, because I just thought about gosh, what this woman has gone through and to just try and hide, right? Like, she hadn't asked for any of this. She really summed it up in her victim impact statement.

What her life has been like and how horrible it is for her, for her children. I mean, there are so many pieces and so many different people in all of this. Let's talk about the landscape. Um, because he was somebody who, again, kind of going back to this kind of trail of people who just had been wronged in some way by Ira.

I mean, this is gentleman who lost his business. Essentially, or the control of his business, right? Right. And Susan actually called, not only the landscape, but Markenzie, her angels. You know, for, for saving her.

And by the way, Susan and Markenzie are friends, which is really cool. But the landscape, or yeah, I mean, he, I, and I said to the detective, I said, like, doesn't, doesn't he watch

“Dateline, the landscape or like, why would he want to get into business with someone like that?”

And she said apparently he knew and Ira told the landscape or that it was all Kelly that he got sucked into this thing because of Kelly. And so, um, he, again, is a victim. And so the landscape or trusted him and then got burned. Gosh.

Yeah. Let's talk about there is an extra clip of an interview that you did with Detective Peggy Braddock that didn't make an interbroadcast. But I want to listen to a little bit of it here. Um, she kind of describes this conversation that Ira had with that landscape,

where we were talking about sitting around drinking wine, eating cheese. Yes. I was full of it. I mean, yes. I mean, just the whole thing is just so.

Yeah. Outside the realm of reality. Let's listen to it. And as the conversation went on, they started talking about things that were an involving business.

So they were telling some funny stories about their childhood in their past. And the landscape or told a story about a friend of his who was. I believe in business with somebody and felt he had been done wrong. So when this person was driving, he called the police and told him that. This person had drugs in their car and they were stopped.

And we're ultimately arrested for having the drugs on the car.

So Ira said to the landscape or do you think we can do this to Susan? So as they're talking over wine and cheese, he says, well, why wife drives an outie. And the landscape or says, well, my cousin at distant cousin works for outie. And he's like, well, you think you can make it key. And the landscaper's like, well, how would you do this?

He's like, what does Susan do? And he's like, well, she goes to book club. And the landscaper's like, what do you crazy? And who's going to think that a woman who goes to book club? And to cooking club is carrying a kilo of drugs in her car.

That's the stupidest thing I ever heard was wrong with you. And he just like puts a cabash on a conversation. So plant the drugs in Susan's car and have her arrested. He had only escalated from there. It definitely escalated from there.

But it just shows that even back then he was still thinking of ways to. The wheels to get to his wife. The wheels returning. Yes. Wow, he's like the widely, what is it, coyote?

You know, that like, he's coming back like the bad. Right. And yes. And I should say, Blink, we're laughing because they're of the absurdity of some of these things that we're talking about and hearing. It's not funny.

Susan, this is her life. This is not funny. But it's hard not to laugh at moments of the absurdity of Irobernstein. It just defies reality, defies logic, right? It's outside of the realm of what anyone would ever think that another human being would come up with.

Yes. It's like hard to imagine them sitting over wine and cheese and being like, "Let's plant a kilo of drugs in our car." Yeah. You know, I think that one thing that really stands out to me about this episode.

And I recently, I just a couple of weeks ago did a talking date line with Keith on his Murder and Magnolia's podcast series. And it was the same thing.

This plot for hire to kill someone that fortunately never came to fruition.

I am just stunned by how easily people can sit around and kind of hatch these ideas or talk about the notion of killing someone. Paying to kill, I mean, it comes so easily in these discussions. And it's unbelievable, really.

“It is unbelievable because like number one, you have to be willing to take someone's life, okay?”

But then, then you have to think about what if I'm caught?

I'm going to go to prison for the rest of my life.

And what will happen to my children and all these different things. And then you still think it's a good idea? Still. Going to all these things. And the dumbest thing about Murder for Higher is that now you're involving another person.

This person that you bring or people that you're bringing into this plot are not going to turn on you or tell someone else. Or like, that's a lot of trust to place in someone else. Truly. Truly. Well, there was so much in this episode.

And coming up after the break, we will answer some of your questions from social media. As you can imagine, we have lots of social media, comments, questions, thoughts. We can go through a few of those. So my favorite part. I love hearing from our faithful viewers.

Well, listen, as you can expect, people had thoughts about this episode. Lots of thoughts. So let's go to the first one.

“At Rayford, five, 12 asks, was Kelly a real mortician that did involvement or did she just spell caskets at the funeral home?”

Great question. When I asked Kelly about her role as a mortician, she went to school, learned how to embom, but she didn't actually do embomming because I guess because of the Jewish faith they do not embom. Okay. So she had the skill.

She just didn't put it right. This is from Fran Macon. Okay. This is a good one. I would have liked more discussion on his comment to Andrea questioning why would he talk to her/dateline again after what they did to him the first time.

Did he feel he was portrayed badly edited badly?

So he never said he just kept walking and I kept, you know, calling out some more questions to him and then he was gone.

And then even when I was sitting next to him in the courtroom, nothing just silence. So you know, only Ira would know what he is upset about. Yeah, I'm thinking there. Okay. Here's one from Jamie Walsh Honeycutt.

I know the doctors make a lot of dough, but his wealth seemed even more beyond that. What's the full story? Where did his money come from? Did he come from money? I'm not sure what his family situation was with money, but he had different centers like foot centers and he also if I recall correctly was buying properties like real estate.

“So I think the money was coming from different places, but they lived in a beautiful house on a beautiful property.”

I have to say when I first saw that aerial shot, like the early early in the episode, I said, oh my gosh. Like what is his, what's this person's story? Because yes, that goes far beyond any just normal doctor wealth. Yes. And they had a lake, their own lake.

I mean, the dog. I mean, it was a living part. It was quite the state. Yes. Yes.

I'm curious, aside from, I mean, his prison and the divorce, did Susan get any other money from him just like a financial kind of penalty for trying to have her killed. Susan sued not only Ira, but Ira's sister as well for damages, and that is unresolved. Okay. Got it. Here's a question from @pinypumkin33.

I love it. Right. Was more candy getting paid to help with this investigation. I hope so.

“Not that I'm aware of. I think he just did it because he wanted to help and save Susan out of the goodness of his heart.”

Yeah. And here's one. This one's for a comment. It's from @erictpurser, who writes, wow. How do you get two easy sentences for attempted murder?

I think a lot of people are thinking the same thing. The conspiracy to commit murder. He pled guilty to tampering with evidence. And so, you know, there's only so much prison time that comes with a crime like that. It was different from the first time around.

It was a trickier case. Yes. I think a lot of people would agree with that one. Absolutely. Well, Andrea, this was a fascinating episode.

I mean, a case you followed for a long time. And it was just really, really just interesting to watch. So thank you so much. I'm talking to you online with me. Thanks, Plane. And that's it for talking, date line this week.

Thanks so much as always for listening.

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Friday night on date line.

No ordinary victim.

He loved the opportunity to make the world a better place.

No ordinary crime.

“I think murder is always the last thing you expect.”

I kept thinking when you have the wrong person.

Murder in San Francisco. Date line. Friday, 9/8 central. Only on NBC.