Come Back for Greatness with Allyson and Wes Felix

I wanted to be a mother so badly, I wanted all the, you know, baby shower, the bump pictures. And my experience was just lonely isolating. I barely ever left the house. When I did, I was in big baggy clothing, and we were doing this because even when they offered the 70%

“less, it wasn't on paper. And so there was the basis of them low-balling you. I think it was”

really, you know, I was older. You were getting older and they didn't get to do it. Yeah, right. And I think they didn't think that they had to pay me to do it. This episode is brought to you by shit. Craig. Michelle. What's going on? It's Craig. Craig and Michelle. Michelle and Craig. How about Michelle and Craig? Did we, did we go over that? No, I think. I think it, Michelle and Craig sounds better.

But we grew up hearing Craig and Michelle. That's right. Craig and Michelle. That's right.

“Craig and Michelle. I think Michelle and Craig sounds better. You like that, but I'm excited about”

our heart. How about it? Show today. Because when we started talking about doing IMO and over the first season things, the show is becoming what it's going to be. Right. And it's beautiful. I love how we're kind of unwinding what it is organically. But we talked about wanting to really get more siblings like situations that we get to contrast and compare with our upbringing. Especially siblings who work together. And we did that with Virginia and Reina. We've got a couple of people in, but this pair.

Everybody will know who the sister of the team is. Do always. I've been a fan of hers for a long

time. Yeah. But we've got brother's sister here. You want to do the introduction? I do. We have Allison and Wes Felix. So I am excited because this is my first time meeting them. Not my first time seeing them, but my first time meeting them. So I will, I will start with Allison by Allison Felix. This is the most decorated American track and field Olympian in history, earning 31 global medals across the Olympics in World Championships. Crazy. 31. That's a lot of running. That's a lot of medals

and a lot of winning and playing and competing along with multiple world records at her fifth Olympic

Games in Tokyo 2020. She wore spikes from her own brand, Sage, making her the first track and

field athlete to compete in her own footwear. So we're going to talk about that. And now Wes has a distinguished athletic and leadership background as well. At USC, he was an all-American and captain of USC's track team. So I can't wait to talk to them about, I mean, we were close in college, but it wasn't like you were playing ball or something. And then Wes found it evolved management agency shaping the brands of top female athletes, including a sister Allison Felix.

In 2021, he co-founded Sage, a woman's specific performance footwear brand and in 2024, always

alpha the first talent management firm dedicated entirely to women's sports. Amen. So we got so much to talk about. We have so much to talk about and we can't wait. So why don't you guys come on out and have some feel like welcome to IMO. You're looking great, big brother little sister. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel like her maturity is maybe surpassed mine. Now that she's mom.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but he was a dead first. But I still think my maturity surpasses him.

“I think that's a gender thing. I think it's a gender thing. Yeah. And my Misha's maturity level”

surpassed me when she was six. So you know that. I had a little bit of a little bit. She was

Like did you guys put like we played everything together?

“Because she was my first and played me. Yeah. So whether it was sports or games,”

boy games, cards, that's started for you and me early. The minute you could get me to do stuff. Yeah. We're old enough to beat me at something. Yeah. He would be like, let's play the game that I've been practicing for years. Yeah. It was the same for us really early on. I

feel like our family is just competitive. So that was, you know, that was the dynamic always.

And then I was just a tag along. You know, whatever West was doing, I was trying to keep up. And so if he was playing with the boys and neighborhood and they were playing basketball, I was, you know, not too far along. But he did, he never let me win anything. And then I also didn't, I was always West's little sister. Like I didn't have a name. So he was doing well. And when I came along, you know, that kind of was the thing. And so I felt like I was always trying to kind

of, you know, keep up with you. Yeah. It was interesting as you guys were, we're doing the open and you were saying, is it Michelle and Craig or Chris and Michelle? Mm-hmm. It's interesting

and art for us just when it switched. Yeah. You know, it was always West and Allison. And it was

this is Allison or West's little sister, West's little sister. Yeah. And then all of a sudden high school, it like turned. And it was like Allison and West. And it was that's Allison's brother. And um, and it's been that way ever since. We had to say with our ours was a little later when she became iconic as the first lady that it's like, I'd be feeling, I'd be fine. Michelle Obama's brother. Yeah. And it, I was more than happy to be that, you know, because she had been

Craig Robinson's little sister for so long. Yeah. And it was, it was irritating at times, but you got to meet some, well, I feel guys. Probably like he probably fell from Allison. I, I adored my big brother. I mean, there, there was never a feeling of competition. We'd compete. Mm-hmm. But, you know, if he got something new, I was excited for him, you know. So tell us about your parents because I want to, I mean, we miss our so much.

Tell us how they influenced the people you became. Yeah, so our dad is a pastor. Yeah. So, um, yeah, we grew up as P.K. And our mom, uh, oh, is that a thing? P.K.

“Yeah, that's just kids. Yeah, that's just kids. Yeah, that's just kids. Yeah, but I think they're all P.K.”

That's because you don't go to church. Yeah, that's true. I would not know. Yeah, and our mom was elementary school teacher. She taught third grade. And so, um, yeah, they were very much people of service. Mm-hmm.

And, you know, invested in people. And we always grew up hearing, you know, your parents are so amazing.

They've done, you know, so much for us. And for us, I think they're really great examples of what heartwork looked like, and what passion looked like, and um, really gave us, you know, a beautiful upbringing. Yeah, I think I always think of, you know, the, especially our dad, his, his dad passed away when he was eight. Mm-hmm. So, he had such a different life than we did, but he, where he grew up, it was two streets over from where we grew up. So, literally exact same neighborhood, you know,

just two streets over. That's similar to us. Yeah, we grew up in the community that our parents grew up in. Yeah, same thing. And then his dad passed when he was eight. So, then they had to leave that neighborhood. And they had to go out, just kind of into LA and, um, and so to get to experience what it was like

“to have both parents there and alive. And, you know, I think we got to experience things that”

for him were his like hopes for us, but also he was so protective because I think he knew how fragile all of it was. And for us growing up in LA in the '80s, '90s, like it was, it was like a, a war zone there. And, you know, we lived in this beautiful little pocket. Mm-hmm. This gated little pocket, but it was still right in the middle of all of all. Well, that's all Black neighborhoods. If you grew up in a black, I don't care what socioeconomic, at least we were coming up.

Black folks all live together. So, there might be a block or two or four, but you were surrounded by all of the Black community, which I thought was a beautiful way for us to grow up. You know, this way would never too far. You never could get too big for yourself. And I know growing up in our

lives. You know, you had to get people, you know, clear and know how to act with your, you know,

“neighborhood friends, right? And then come back home and straighten up and use the right English.”

It was almost like, you know, it was a complete code switching, but I, I treasured that experience. I'm so glad we grew up with that, both of you. And we'll talk about sports, but what's very clear in your career, Allison, is that you have a very high bar for yourself, period. And you put so much pressure on yourself. I want to know, and Wes, you're probably the same way, but I'm just wondering, where does that come from? Because your parents, you know, they're like, you,

you succeeded when you graduated, right? Good people, not in a game. You know, the bar becomes,

I wouldn't say low, but I know our parents, they didn't put pressure on us to be anything other than good people in the world. You know, there wasn't like you're going to be an Olympic athlete. You're going to be president. You're going to, you know, it was just like, so where does that pressure for you guys come from? Yeah, it definitely, yeah, didn't come from our parents. And it's really interesting because they had no athletic dreams for us. So for me, it really, it just felt like who I was,

it felt very natural to have these, you know, high expectations. But I think I did see, you know, my parents like work so hard at what they were doing. And so when I did find something that I was

“passionate about, I wanted to bring that same energy to it. And so I think that's what it was.”

I wanted to do it the best that I could. And that always looked like setting a goal, and then,

you know, if I achieved it, then, okay, there's another one, and there's another one, and it just kind of kept going. But it was, it was really kind of internal for me that I, you know, that I kept pushing. You've started with, for you, play basketball. Yeah. Where did the running come in? Because what I found with most basketball players running is a punishment. So you don't like to do it. Yeah. And that are true. You have, you, so you went from basketball to running. Yeah. And, and I know you

followed him with running. Yeah. But where did the running come in? For me, it was really just around school and like making friends. But West was at a different school. And so he was already running and he was already doing well. And so it was kind of a natural next step for me to try. I was playing basketball, but still hadn't made the friends that, you know, as that I needed. I didn't find my group. And then that's really for me, how, yeah, how I got into this.

The same, our dad was, we were out in new school and he was like, sports are a great way to meet people. Just trying to, trying to meet people and just trying to make friends. Don't bump into it. Yeah. And then I said, you know, you know, you know, that's the work. Yeah. Yeah. Then we fell in love with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was a huge part of our bond. Yeah. Yeah. So how was it? Yeah. Like, it was like the family business. So what was it like,

“Alison going to the Olympics at 18? Mm-hmm. Do you remember that? Is that still? Yeah.”

I mean, yes, very fresh. It was, everything was new for me, because I had only really seriously joined the track team at my high school a little over four years before. And so everything happened so quickly. And so for me, it was like the, you know, the biggest competition that I've raised in, it was away from home. It was, um, all the things I didn't grow up wanting to be in a Olympian. So it was something, you know, that I found much later. So I was really everything that

they had to offer. I was doing walking and opening ceremonies, trading pins, living in the Olympic village. It was just so exciting. But when it came to the competition, I was still very much so that competitive, you know, athlete. And so I ended up getting a silver medal. Oh, we, we saw the documentary. But I was, yeah, not happy. But just in terms of context, because, you know, everybody should know you, but we are, we want to make sure that every listener understands,

because you, you, you were the, one of the youngest Olympians to run in your meat to make that jump that quickly. Yeah. And I want to hear a bit about that, that experience, um, because people didn't think they thought you were going after the Olympics too soon. Yeah. Yeah. You were, you were a

Olympics. Yeah. Well, I still remember it feels like failure. Yeah. I did. I was, um, I had done really well in high school. And so I do a justice, do a justice. Well, yeah. Because he's not home,

“really. That's why that's why big brother's here. So Allison was state champion in California,”

which is a huge track. Yeah. Yeah. When was your first state championship, sophomore year? Yeah. Yeah. So sophomore year was her first state championship, um, which just doesn't, that's insanely rare in California. Um, and then she's on the cover of Sports Illustrated by the time she's 17 as a track athlete, which again, that doesn't just doesn't happen. Um, when it was her senior year, she went to Mexico City. She went to a private school and she had a coach who

was like so dedicated. I think like it's such an amazing part of your story, just the way that

your coach, like believed in you and wanted you to have all the opportunities. But, um, he said,

“hey, there's this pro meat you can go compete in. We should go down there to Mexico City. They”

asked you to come. They're going to pay, you know, and so our parents go down there and she runs in this meat against women who this is their job. This isn't, this is how they put food on the table. This isn't fun anymore. This is their job. And she goes down there. She runs and she beats an entire field of professionals. Not takes third and beats most of the pros. She beats all of the pros. And she runs the fastest time in the world for any, any woman that year. Um, and then decided

that she wanted to go pro. And so she became the first high school athlete to go directly pro.

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merch, products, or the next best idea, get on Shopify.com/iaml and make it happen today. What made you decide to go pro? Well, yeah. It was a really big decision because that wasn't happening in track and field. The biggest factor was that the Olympic Games were going to be the next year and West was already at USC and so I had this front row seat watching him compete and seeing what it actually looked like and it was all about the NCAAs and so he was all about the point

to stem and so he would have a lot of events and if you wanted to do well at the Olympics that was fine but that was not going to be the primary goal and so in really getting to talk to him in his experience, it was like if I really wanted to take it seriously to try to make the Olympic team, my best bet was going to be able to just solely focus on that and not run for the team and I know I would have wanted to be a team player and have done all the things and so that was really what

it came down to. It was could I focus solely on trying to make the Olympic team and it was a really it was a decision that was really criticized a lot and of course we didn't have social media like we have now but you know I heard it and it was it was really hard but my family you know they

“supported me and and yeah I think I made the right decision for what my goals were I still had”

feelings of missing out on the the true college experience and you know being on the team and all of those things but I yeah I I went for you know I went for trying to make the team do you remember the first time you said to yourself I want to be an Olympian it was really late it was in it was probably around the time a little bit before that race in Mexico City because for me I had

always looked at it as like this is going to be college you know this is my ticket to college and

to get it paid for and so I always had that mindset and also because we found it late, I don't think I really knew it was like a career path. It's like he's not on you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, than like the NBA or the NFL, where you're.

- There was no Paris. - Yeah, yeah. - Like, contracts and all this stuff, like. - I didn't know. - I didn't know. - Yeah, we knew one, who was a professional track athlete.

“And so I think it was just, you know, even the possibility.”

And then, you know, one side had done really well, and I started to like, look and see, oh, you know, there are these people who, you know, who do this for a living. It's like, oh wow, that's awesome. - That's amazing. - So not too long after that race, it was like, okay.

This is what I want to do, and I really want to take it all the way. - Well, speaking of kids, just doing stuff. So you start managing Allison. - How does it prove just going to happen? - Yeah, I just, how, you know,

because you, how were you when you started managing Allison? - I was young. I think I was 24. - Yeah. - Maybe 25. - So how did, how did the con, what was the conversation?

It's so funny because I was kind of at this place in my career where I was looking for new management. I was going to a new sponsor, and so there was a lot of change happening.

And I never felt like I had really been,

got the sponsors and the deals that I should have. And so I was really on the hunt for that. And Wes was also in this moment in his career at a transition as well. He had a liver virus where it was clear

that he was not going to be able to continue.

“And so I think everything is not in place.”

- Yes, so I would like continue on in this course. - Yeah. - There wasn't death now, you know. - But it was kind of this moment that it just aligned. And he, you actually made a proposal.

I think he, like put a proposal together to our parents,

- And I called her Miss Felix. We, we in the proposal. - I still entalaged them. - I just, I just, you're a little bit. - Yeah, yeah.

“- Because it was a couple years out of college.”

I just been running for a few years. I was sponsored by Nike and, yeah, and had the injury. And then she got her Miss Felix letter. - So I guess the proposal was really great. 'Cause, but it was like this kind of natural next step.

And I had all the confidence. Like it, for me it was great

'cause I felt like for the first time,

like in my entire career, I could solely focus on the competition and the training. And just say like, okay, you've got this. Other side. - You know, I looked at her business.

And at the time, she had like this sponsorship with a data, and that was where she, like her income came from. But she had these outside sponsors. And there were two of them. And one was Visa, and one was Powerbar,

and like together, it was a combined $35,000 a year. And so I looked at that and was like, that sounds crazy to me. Like, my sister just won an Olympic silver medal. She's 18 years old.

Like, she's like the youngest Olympian on the team. She's the youngest sprint world champion in history. $35,000 doesn't. So I didn't know what a lot was. But I knew $35,000 wasn't a lot.

- What do you think it was that? Why do you think you were underpaid at that time? Because it is true. You were a phenom, but you were making $35,000 a year. - I think probably a combination of things.

But I was at a large agency. And I think I, well, I felt like I was lost in the cracks. I didn't feel like anybody was really fighting for me. I think in especially being a female, a black woman, someone has to be out there really going hard for you.

And I don't think I was showing up in rooms. I don't think that, I don't think I was really a factor. And so much, I don't think anyone was really pushing for me. And so I think that all shifted when the person representing me also cared about me, you know, and cared about my well-being.

And yeah, when that really shifted when we started working together. And it's hard because everything is about the Olympic Games for us. That is our championship. That's the biggest thing.

But it happens every four years. And the world only pays attention for those two weeks. And so all of your earning potential was really right there.

“But it's also the most, you know, it's the event you have to be ready for.”

And so there's so much that goes into, you know, the training, the day in and day out. And we do have a professional circuit that we, you know, participate every year. But it's nothing like the Olympic Games.

And so just the weight of that. And, you know, the opportunity is small. The window is small of your earning potential. And so a lot goes into it.

And I always say it's, you know, for me,

my race was a 221 seconds. And if you mess it up, you've got to wait another four years. And so it's not only the athletic pursuit of it, but the business side of it as well. It's like, how do we maximize this time

that you don't know if you're going to go one soar. You have multiple opportunities. So I think it's really difficult for Olympians. And then when you start to even get smaller for, you know, for Olympians of color, for women, you know,

the opportunities are smaller. So it's been challenging through the years to really be able to get out there. And I always feel like for a female athlete as well is not only do you have to be extraordinary in what you do,

but there's also this other thing where it feels like there's like the standard of beauty. Or there's, you know, you have to also be, you know, appealing in the certain way.

“And I think after a while, it just becomes exhausting, you know?”

It's like you're constantly fighting to make it. And you know, sometimes you feel like you are not yourself when you're trying to fit this version of like, you know, what are they looking for? How can I be that when it's not really who I am?

And so I think it's really, you know, been a struggle, but I think definitely it was a turning point when we started working together, I felt like I could lean into more of myself and be able to honor that.

- I also wanna just pitch, she runs the world,

which is an amazing documentary that,

and I wanna talk more about that. That really gives the audience a clear sense of who you both are. And, you know, character-wise as an athlete, so I want people to, 'cause I know it's done,

I've seen it, yeah. And it's played at the Martha's Vineyard African American Film Festival,

but be on the lookout for she runs the world, and we'll talk more about that story. But you guys did something different to keep the light shining, yeah. Because we know Allison Felix, you know,

we know you inside and out. So what did you all, what do you think the difference was for you in sort of maintaining kind of a high level of presence

“and building an economic model that could sustain you?”

- I think it really was eventually doing things like outside of the traditional sense. You know, for I think a lot of stuff shifted for us when we started speaking out once we, you know, created our company, and I was sponsored by, you know,

say to our own company, it was like breaking outside

the mold of the way that things had always been done

and understanding that that's okay, and that's good. And I think it was also just being ourselves instead of trying to fit into this mold of what you think that they're looking for. Can we talk about what we're talking about?

- Yeah. - Because you're killing it. Winning medals got a big Nike sponsorship. You are the female athlete at Nike, and they are making money off of you, and you're killing it.

And then this wonderful thing happens that turns out to not be a wonderful thing in sports. - Can you talk about it? - Yeah, I started a family and I had, I was really scared to do that.

You know, well, I waited first because I felt like I couldn't.

I had seen, you know, my friends, and I had seen my teammates struggle, and so I felt like, okay, well, if I do enough, if I have enough medals, then that won't be me. And I waited, I had gone to four games,

I had six gold medals, and I felt like I'm in the safe zone, and I start my family, and even before I disclose my pregnancy to them, our negotiations began at an offer of 70% less than what I was making before. And that just shook me, because it was like, wow,

they don't even know, and already this is in such a bad place. And so, my fear amplified, and I started to train, I started to hide my pregnancy. And so I would train well with dark. I, like, I wanted to be a mother so badly.

I wanted all the, you know, baby shower, the pump, pictures. And my experience was just lonely isolating. I barely ever left the house. When I did, I was in big baggy clothing, and we were doing this, because even when they offered the 70% less,

it wasn't on paper. And so there was the basis of them low-balling you did.

“I think it was really, you know, I was older.”

You were getting older and you didn't get to do it. - Yeah. - Right. And I think they didn't think that they had to pay me to do it. You know, who else was gonna pay me? (upbeat music)

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I found in representing owls and that people are afraid because I'm her brother. They dance around things and I'll try to just tell them. I was like, you know, I understand that's my sister and also I'm not here as her brother. I'm here as her manager and so like, I need to understand what you're talking.

“So say what you need to say, you know, and something that they said was it's just business.”

And also, you know, she is getting older. And how were you at the time? Was I 32? Yeah. Yeah, 32. Yeah. She's getting older and, you know, and as conversations went on and it got a bit more heated and truth came out a little bit more.

Something else they said that I found like unbelievably just offensive was, well, we've paid her a lot of money over the years and when I remember when the comment came out, you know, and you're kind of looking at a white man telling you who his exact words were, well, she's made a lot of money with us. I hope she's saved some and, you know, and my comment was, and you've made much more money off of her than she's made off of you.

And, um, and as we went, went through the negotiations, you know, what became really, really clear to me was that this was just because they believed they could. Right. It was because they could. Yeah. And, you know, there's the parts of that that are, that are ugly and horrible. There's a parts of that that are, that are just business and you don't have to be amazing, great people to do business. It would obviously be better if you were, but, you don't have to be.

“And, um, and I think what they, what they never thought could happen is what, what did happen.”

Which is never thought that we would actually stand up to them and, and that else would,

would sit down and, yeah, wrote a New York Times op-end sharing what was going on. We had turned our attention away from the financial part of it and asked for maternal protections, which simply met, um, the contracts are performance based. And so they're created so that if you go to the Olympics or world championships, you get a bonus. And if you don't, you get a reduction. But if you have a baby, or if you just given birth, there was nothing to protect you.

So I was simply asking for time to be able to recover after childbirth and not be further financially penalized. And at first, they said, yes. And I was like, okay, then we can move forward. And when the contract came back, um, there was no mention of maternity, no pregnancy. And, and what we learned was that they were not willing to set that precedent for everyone.

this happened over a course of time. I ended up giving birth to my daughter. And there was just,

it just to me, it just felt like unacceptable. You know, it just felt like I couldn't stand by on that. So, um, wrote that New York Times op-ed shared what so many women before me had also,

“who were under NDAs had gone through. And, um, yeah, shared my truth. And I think it was about”

two and a half weeks after that op-ed came out that Nike changed their policy along with many other companies today offering 18 months of maternal protection. And, um, yeah, but terrifying, you know. I have that. Really, really scary. I'm thinking back to something you said earlier about your parents, being of service to everyone. That was your opportunity to be of service. You could have taken your money in there. You could have just said, okay, I'm hooked up. Like a lot of people do.

And so, kudos to you. Um, at any point in time during that whole process, did your passion for the sport change? Like, did you feel like, oh, I'll show. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm through with this. I feel like I felt like I had a lot to prove after that. You know, it was almost like, and going through that, I knew I wasn't done. And I, I hated that, you know, I felt like they thought I was through. That now I was a mother, you know, I needed to be on to

something else. I, I hated that I felt like I was being forced in this narrative that I did not connect with. You know, I knew that I still could make it back to the Olympics. I knew that I could still be the present mother that I wanted to be. And so the idea that I could not, I felt like I could have made my own decision. That motivated me to say, like, well, I want to show, you know, the world that this is a possibility. And also, I want to show my daughter that, you know,

when it's her time to do whatever that you can absolutely do the things that the convictions of your heart and that you can do it fully, you know, in all the ways. And so that was the big shift that I felt. Instead of walking away from the sport, you walked away from Nike. I walked away from Nike

and knew that I wasn't done. And in West and I, you know, always figuring it out, figuring out

what was next. We thought, you know, okay, we've got to find a new sponsor and that was the task.

“But as we did a really deep dive in the industry in West, I think really going into big brother”

mode, he was like, I just think that we should do this ourselves. And I'm like, well, what exactly does that mean? You know, I had just had a baby, you know, all these things are happening in the world. And he said, you know, I think that we should, you know, build a shoe company. And that just felt also so big, just coming from where we come from, like, I didn't see the path to that. But the more that I sat with it, I understood what he was saying. And was like, instead of begging these big brands

to do the right thing to build a thing differently, we could do it. And even though it was very ambitious, we did that and we learned that, you know, shoes were not being made for women. And that took time to figure out what that meant because, you know, we've all been to the shoe store and the women's side. And I'm like, no, there's shoes. But as we unpacked it, we learned, you know, a shoe is just made off of a last, which is a mold of a foot. And it's the mold of a man's foot used to make

women's sneakers. And I had no idea of being a runner that I was running, literally, in men's shoes. And when we figured that out, it was like, wow, you know, we have this opportunity, you know, we can we're absolutely where we're supposed to be. And we can do things differently. And we can also see

“and celebrate women in a holistic way that we didn't feel like was being done. And I think,”

you know, when you've really given your life to something for so long and to feel so discarded, it was very painful. And so it was picking up the pieces. And to me, you know, to be able to make

it back to Olympics, to do it, you know, wearing our shoes was incredible and also in front of

my daughter, you know, and really getting to, you know, one day fully be able to tell her, you know, what all that means. I think it was really a full circle experience. Well, it was COVID-19. Yeah, it was a COVID year. So you also, they're so different to, like, first games we were not. Yeah, when you skipped over the part that your pregnancy was not unevenful. Yeah, you know, which as, you know, the other powerful thing to watch in, uh, she runs the world is just your

section. Yeah, you gave birth early. So Kami was premature. And those days watching you and your husband go back and forth to that new year's Eve when you could bring her home. Yeah, um, I just

“thought, yeah, it was, it was heartbreaking, you know, and I think even more so like I, I wasn't,”

I didn't realize that that was not an uncommon experience. That's so many black women have gone through that. And so many don't get to have the experience of walking out of the hospital with their family. And so that shifted my life, you know, I, I just felt like we have to be doing more. There's no way that we can continue down this path, you know, for it to be more dangerous for me to give birth than it was for my mother. I mean, that just doesn't make sense. And something like

80% of deaths and complications of women of color are preventable. And so that whole experience, you know, I think it gave me just that push that I needed to be able to speak out and to be able

to do things I never would have imagined because that's so far from what makes me feel comfortable,

but it was, it's necessary because, you know, black women are dying giving birth today in our country. It's, well, you, you were living out the full experience of the devaluation of women and black women through the sport. And through, in the world, I mean, West like you said, women are, a lot of women we feel beaten down because there is, there's so little investment in a woman's life, you know, and to see it in this contract negotiation where they essentially say you're done,

you know, we're through with you, you know, there are a lot of male athletes that get legacy deals where they're, you know, they're, they are done, but, you know, the men around the table still see the value that they bring, which is how, that's the other thing. That's the other thing. There's a lot more money. There's a lot more money. You know, so the shoe situation is like, it's like our health, you know, we're not even told about the dangers of giving birth,

you know, studies aren't being done, you know, outrage isn't happening. We're just, we're doing

the most important thing, which is bringing life into the world. And nobody tells us about pre-clampsia

or morning sickness or what it does to our bodies. And now we, companies want to penalize female athletes in a pro-life world where we care so much about life, you know, but we don't care about the mother who's giving birth. That's, you know, the full power of your story because there's so many, you've lived out the complete disparity in health among women, black women, the economic disparities that we face as being a world class athlete, an American hero. Thank you. And so much.

Well, you know, we, we have a listener question, but before we get to the listener question, I understand that you, you may have some news for us. I don't know if it's news, but I,

“I think one thing, there's a thought that keeps coming back to me and I've”

been thinking about honoring it. And it's just really the idea a lot of what we've been talking about as far as women and I think when we get to a certain age, that sometimes we are told that our life should look a certain way. And so I've had this feeling of, do I want to come to LA, do I want to try one more time to make an Olympic team? And I keep having the scary feeling of it feels like something I want to do and the push to honor that. And not because I feel like

I need to, or that it's something around performance. But the feeling that I have is really around the narrative for women. And, you know, this idea of can we have ambition after achievement?

“Can we, what if there is more? And I think I'm deeply curious if I could do it. I think it's really”

big and, you know, it's super, it's a big goal. And, um, but it excites me and it scares me. And I think my

first thought was, okay, this is something that I really want to hold on to and do in private.

But I think that that also makes me feel like it's probably the right thing because it's a little

If there's anybody who should feel like when it comes to her profession, her sport, her life, who has nothing to prove. It's you. You don't have anything to prove. You don't need this. But if it's something you want, yeah, yeah, because it isn't, it's not for them. You know, it's for this, it's for candy. It's for all the candies that come after all the women who were told no, who stopped when they were told no. All the women who will continue to

be told no and how old are you now? I'm 40. You're 40. You're a baby. I'm 62. And you're absolutely right. Those, those bars were false. You know, um, those boxes that they put us in aren't true.

They've never been true, um, but because the world is designed for men, they create the boxes.

They put us in. You know, even though there's something in you that says, I might be able to, I have, I have it in me. Yeah. I am not who you say I am. Yeah. I am not the box that you put me in.

“We all need a little bit of that. I think it would be a powerful statement. And that's what”

hard things are. Yeah. You know, hard things are, and I learned this from my husband because I, I'm probably, I'm not as shy as you, but I'm inclined to step back from a thing and go, why would you do that? It seems like, you know, what I've got this partner who's like, why not? You know, if not us, then who, you know, um, so that that's all it is. It's just saying yes. And then turning your back to what everybody else has to say because the journey is going to

require a lot of work and a lot of focus that you already know how to do and I would just narrow in on the beauty of that process. Yeah. And let it be whatever it's going to be. I just think the process

of the effort is powerful. You know, you're going to, you're, you want the goal. You don't want

to lose. Yeah. And that, that's great. Now she's getting into my, my lane. Let's get into my lane as, as the coach has changed. Yeah. Don't say coach. I would, I, I suspect there's a little competition, a hall like still left over in the new. And I would just be, okay, when this is a train and start. Yeah. I mean, with the schedule start playing. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. You know, who would let, let's put the team together to make this successful. Yeah. Who's, who's

coaching, who's training, who's set in the schedule. I mean, I, I'm, I'm got goosebumps. I'm

“excited for you. Well, I think it's also knowing that I'm okay if this ends with me not making it.”

It's the question of, is it possible? Well, I'm not sure. But I'm deeply curious. And I think just knowing that you can go for something, even at a certain age, that that doesn't have to be a limit, doesn't have to be something that turns you away. And so, and not to poo poo all of the warm stuff we're talking about. A lot of athletes don't take it to the next level because they're afraid that they might not make it. Mm-hmm. I'm trying to teach our high school kids that I'm coaching

right now. The, the beauty of the journey is in the process and the journey itself. And that never

goes away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They failure or failure. You know, it's a part of it. I feel like I've learned so much more from the things that didn't go the way that I had thought they were supposed to go. And there's so much to be learned. And so there is something that excites me of what will I learn on this process? You know, and what is there? What is for me? You know, it may not look

“maybe like the goal that I have set before. But I think that there is something powerful there.”

Speaking of helping folks, this is a perfect time for our questions from Ashley and Long Beach. When you consider a new venture, what signals tell you it's time to pivot and what criteria help you decide what to say yes to and what to lovingly release when your time and energy are finite. For those of us with many calling and limited capacity, how do we pursue the next thing

been grappling with as well. I know one place I like to start with is asking myself, is there an impact here? Do I have purpose here? Do I have something to give instead of just thinking purely

“about things that are practical? And so I think that if there is something that's bigger than”

yourself also there, that's a good indication that you're where you're supposed to be. So that's my

first thought. Especially Ashley is a woman. We can do stuff just for us. I'm just listening

and it's like, "Guess what you don't have to have a bigger purpose. LeBron doesn't have a bigger purpose. Tom Brady doesn't have a bigger purpose." I mean men decide they want to do it. They do it regardless of whether they're family wants it or anybody wants it, you know. Sometimes it's grounded and what does your heart tell you you want? And I think as women it's okay for us to look at what we want and to start from that place of how does this make me feel? What am I getting out of it?

You know and it's okay to start there as a woman. You know we don't have to have a bigger purpose. You your goal that's a lot of things that we will do around the table will impact other people.

And that's for all of us as people who grew up with service and our minds that's always going to

be there. You know so it's not even like you got to put that in your head or you know if Ashley

“doesn't have to put that in her head because it's already there. But I think it's okay to be driven”

by the thing that you care about. You know I tell young people if you don't know what you want to be then start thinking about what you like, you know what you enjoy, what what if you're going to do something really well. You've got to have some level of excitement to get up every day and

train for the next several years to qualify for the Olympics. You you Allison after one to get up

every day because nobody's going to be washing the process just like you said that's the curse of the Olympic athlete. You train in the dark. You you leave in the dark and there's one meat. There's one chance. That's all it is. It's how many seconds? Yeah 21 seconds. And then everything else you know people may not care. You may not get anything afterwards. So it's all about what you want.

“And I think for Ashley and for anyone out there making choices I think it's perfectly fine to”

start with what do what will bring me joy. What will get me out of bed. And if the thing I'm doing right now isn't doing that then let me let me take some time to figure that out. Yeah. And I think young people have to understand that you know in life you know you you don't pick a one thing oftentimes and do it forever. Yeah. The world isn't even designed like that anymore. You know gone are the days when our grandpa parents retired from 35 years and got the gold watch. You know

company corporations don't show that kind of loyalty to people as we saw with Nike. You know so you have to be wired to have some level of flexibility to analyze where I'm now is it time for me to move on and some of that's going to come from what's happening day to day. Are you lose is there no longer path way for you that makes you excited and what you're doing? You know they're they're may not be the support at your in your current activity that gives you the signal that maybe it's time for you

to do something else. So there are many cues in life but the ability to remain flexible you know and to be nimble you know just even having a nimble mind and constantly thinking about your situation and what's coming next. I think that also helps to prepare you and to give you the the clues to whether it's time to do something else. Yeah. This has been great. You know it has been it's like then really talking to a mirror image. Yeah. Yeah. That's really why. Yeah. That's a great

lot. Without the metal but and the company. Yeah. But this is exciting. You know I hope you document

you train the you know the way you mentally prepare the you know how you move through life you know

“just as in she runs the world. That is a powerful way to tell a story. Yeah. So it is a story that I”

hope people can connect with and I hope go through it with me. Yeah. So yeah I will definitely

want to bring everyone in. Well we're going to be there with you. We support you cheer you both on

“um please keep us in mind and if you want to come back on to talk about the journey as you're going”

through it. If you want to you know if you want to scream yell shout you know how we would we welcome

you back any anytime. Thank you so much. And I know nothing about track but I am a good cheerleader. So strong coat. Yeah strong coat. Yeah. Yeah you could get that early morning and then you just don't feel it just just give us a call. I appreciate that I will. There's a feel like telling someone outside of say you say that you just hold on to yesterday. So this is like this is really how does it feel. It feels like it feels good. It feels it feels like it's something I'm supposed to do.

“Like no matter how it ends up good. I think you know Craig what you said it's it's the journey”

and it's when I'm excited to take I'm a little scared. But I think that why hope that it's one that other people also can understand that you know we might be doing different things but it's the same. [Music]