There's a Right Way to Move Through Old Beefs with Monica

Yes, and that conversation and he comes down to my car and he say, "It's a nice guy you ain't gotten an Indian, that ain't safe." So he starts loading my car with these weapons of mass destruction.

And he's like, "I was thinking you were talking about a first day kid."

Oh no, I know what you were talking about.

“Is that you just here? Why are you just here for the first part of the conversation?”

Well, this is HJ. This is HJ, a first day kid. This is not what I thought that he was gonna put it. This is an actual car. This is an actual car. This is HJ. This episode is brought to you by their food and shit. Hey, little girl, HJ, Uncle Jean.

You like my Jean, though. You know, this is called a Canadian talks? Yeah, yeah. I didn't know about that in that day. Yeah, you kind of know a lot about fashion, and this is over and done with it. I really like this. This is very comfortable. Yeah, it's a good. It's not a stiff denim either. Very relaxed.

But what we excited today.

“We do. We talk about fashion, beauty, talent, grace, honesty.”

We got Monica in the house. So excited. You guys know each other. Well, we've just recently met. We'll talk about that when we bring Monica on. But this is going to be the first time that I really get to go into her brain. Okay. All right. I'm ready.

He was going on. So we're going to have a really good conversation. I'm so excited that she has made time to come and be with us. And she's going to learn like me that she is just a total delight. And she's a smart, smart woman. So, but let's do our proper introduction. Okay. Well, Monica is a multi-platinum Grammy award winning singer, songwriter,

philanthropist, entrepreneur, and actress who was sold more than 30 million records worldwide.

She made history with, with back to back number one hits. And a record 13 weeks a top the billboard hot 100 with the boy is mine. Her Grammy winning duet with Brandy. In 2024, she and Brandy joined Ariana Grande for the Grammy-nominated remix of the boy is mine, earning the duo a new nomination. 25 years after their original Grammy win. Most recently, Brandy and Monica embarked on their historic

“sold out North American the boy is mine tour, which I think you went to. Yes, we'll talk about that.”

Marking a full circle moment 27 years after the song's cultural breakthrough. And right off of her tour, Monica. Come on in, Monica. Welcome. Welcome, thank you for being here and letting me into her chair. Of course you want to scooge. Close. Yes, there we are. Right there. Yes, indeed. Thank you. You know, they call me Mo. Do they call you Mo? We got Mo's at the table.

Oh, oh my goodness. Because I heard Mo out there and I'm looking. It's like, who needs me? They were yelling at me. They were definitely yelling at me. They have been calling me Mo since I probably was about eight years old. Really? Yes. Because your first cousin is on your team. Yes, she is. Yes. So, she brought family right to all this as she'd been with you. And so, your first cousin's name, who is Melinda? Melinda. Yes, has she been with you throughout

your career. Since the beginning, I was only 12 when they signed me. Yep. And my mother was employed at Delta. And she was like, listen, this is set up for pension and a lot of other stuff when this is over. Yes, we're not. We're not messing over this. Yes, we're not messing this up. But she, she believed that I should explore my dreams. And that I should see what this could

really be. But she didn't feel that she should be the one on the road. She never wanted to be

a momager. She never wanted to be in front of the camera. And she used to tell me, when you're tired, if this doesn't serve you and who you are and who you are, come home. Yeah. And I love that that was always there because I never felt forced. Yeah. I sang because I loved it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it was a great way for Melinda. How precious of your mom to be able to be in that space with you at that point in time? Because that was, that's not normal. It's not normal.

It's not normal, but I wasn't a normal kid at all. And now I have birthed an unbelievable version of

bread. Yeah. Only 12 years old. Yes. Very similar, gorgeous. She is really a beautiful young lady. I got to meet her backstage when we met. I got to see you on tour. Yes. In DC at Capital One Arena,

the concert was amazing. Thank you. You know, I mean, you all are singers. You know, you're not

real singers. Yes. Your real voice, no buffering, no, you know. And so I knew that it was going to be amazing. But it was really, it was really empowering. It was so challenging to start because

“I found out that I had vocal paralysis in the right vocal cords. So what does that mean?”

Yeah. That means it should be moving and it's not. And now I have all these major obligations. And this is when you want to be in the best shape of your life. And we've been trying to figure out what was happening for quite some time. They started to sound very different. The way I hear them, the way they would come out. And it was after I had surgery, initially from my sinuses. And this was before the tour. Well, we didn't find out why this was happening until two weeks

before the tour. Oh, wow. So you were already experiencing what has been experienced for a while,

but Dr. Renee Gupta is the one that really figured out what was happening because I've always been

able to do whatever I wanted to do in your voice. And I started realizing that these things aren't happening. So I had to learn it all over. And we did it in a, it was one day where it was just tears for me. It was just tears. I just had to get an Anthony's lap and cry. It must have been frightening too. Right. Very much so. And not even the idea of the judgment of it all. But because I hold myself to a standard that I did not realize that I was so hard on myself all of

these years until this moment I'm 45 years old. I didn't realize that I ever put any form of pressure. You know, I'm more of a roundaway girl, I do my own thing my own way. I realize you have been placing this level of pressure on yourself for a very long time. And it was definitely there when you have 32 cities that are expecting to have the night of their life. Wow. Well, so this tour was

“transformational for you in some real personal ways. Have you talked about this before?”

Because I mean, we didn't know. No, okay. No. And the thing is, it's no one asks. You know, we are the last people that people actually care how you're doing. Really? Yeah. This is not a, a toy for pity. I am so used to it when you start at 12, especially during the time where perfection was something that was pushed. What I love about now is people can just be themselves. You see them whether it's online or out in public.

Back then, you hit a lot. You had to be, you had to present. You had to, they wanted you to present. And I became noted for not presenting just showing up and doing me. And we talked about

my album title, Ms. Tang. Yeah. My first album, Dallas would look over and say,

"This is a great song, but you sure turn. Go in there and see what Ms. Tang says." And I'm, you know, feeling that's a great guess with this very information. Oftentimes about who was who? Because my first time singing for Mr. Davis, we go into class office. I'm 12, 13 years old, and it's like a board meeting. And everyone is

“dressed to impress and on their best behavior. And I remember being in the hallways saying,”

"They too, still." And he goes, "That was good, that's he goes." He had on some shades. He goes, "Baby girl." You're not in that land. We're in New York City. And this is Clyde Davis's office. Okay. And I go in the office. Clyde, who? He is still stiff. I go in the office. And I start to sing all between the chairs, all in people's faces. But that's who I am. And you want to be who you're, I feel like we are all made intentionally to be different. Designed different by the most

perfect creator, right? So in all my imperfections, I'm in there just singing and then they stand up in class. And Dallas is like, "Who we made it?" We're made. Get her out of here. But that before they did, they're mine. Yes. So now that you're here, now, when you look back on that, how did you feel

pretend to be someone I wasn't. I show up as myself just as much today as yesterday,

“yesterday, yesterday, yeah, all of the time I am me. And isn't it easier to keep up with that?”

I mean, people ask me this. You seem so authentic. Who you are, seems to be who you are all the time. And my feeling is, that's easier to keep up with. Yes. Because if I have to be one way, giving a speech and one way talking to Congress in a different way when I go home, it's hard to keep up with all that. And eventually, you will be seen. Yes. What we see happening now because people have so much access. They're finding out people they thought they adore. They don't

even like it. Yeah. That's right. If you liked me then, you love me now. That's right. Because you're

just getting more of me. And it's the me that there always was. You don't have to keep up an act.

“So where did you get that confidence? So young. I mean, I can have that conversation. I've had it,”

you know, I mean, I grew up in a household where we had parents that liked who we were. Yes. You know, they weren't ever trying to make us different. They were delighted with our voices in our sense of humor and who we were. And for us, it started there. Because as my mother would say, you don't have to worry about what people think of you out there, come home to be liked. We like you here. Yes. I do believe my family and where I'm from. Where I'm from,

it's okay to just be you. My mother and father are from Nunan, Georgia. And I was also raised by my stepfather who's an incredible man. He's also a pastor. So being a preacher's kid, you know, we either act out and act up or we get in line. And I did a little bit of both.

Yeah. You know, I did a little bit of both. And being unapologetically myself, but always having a safe space

to return was what made me so confident, even when I read things about myself that are disparaging, I'm still okay. Yeah. Because you're like, I know who I am exactly who I am. And those people that need to know me will. This episode is brought to you by Theraflu, makers of fast acting cold and flu relief. Since 2021, Theraflu's rest and recover fund has provided more than a million dollars to families to help offset the cost of a sick day. We had I am a listener's

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“I think this is something we both can relate to with caring for our mom and even now for me”

that my in laws are living close by. Yeah, that's that's for sure. I mean, but I'd say that we are way more blessed than our mom was because we had resources. I mean, this is, I think, what their flu understands. I mean, being a part of the sandwich generation when you don't have the resources and support means something totally different. We saw that with our mom. Because as many of you know, we lived in our home with our great aunt and great uncle as they aged and our mother

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Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. So what was your kitchen table like at home? I mean, what was it like to sit around your house as a kid or as a kid? And then, and how is that? How you carry that on to the table that you are in charge of? Anthony and I have done a lot for it to remain the way it was as a kid. For him, it's very different because he grew up as an orphan, but he also

and Anthony is your husband. Yes, he's incredible. He was my friend for 14 years first.

And I always say that is the one thing I missed. I don't feel like I missed a lot, but in that friendship, I missed all the other things we could be. Wait, explain that so you missed him being a partner? No, I missed that he could be. That he could be because he was just to home. He was a friend. Yes, he was like, you owe my emergency contact. He was and maybe it was just that I respected him so much. You know how you hear people say anything other than the

“friendship with friends can tarnish it? Yeah, maybe that's what I was more afraid of because”

I told him everything about me. And so it's so did Anthony was he thinking or hoping that there could be something back then? You know, that's been a debate at the kitchen table we spoke of because I have a aunt that believes yes. And then I have a mom that's like, no, I think you both were just implicitly trusted each other and didn't believe that that could be in a relationship

and you missed it. What does Anthony say? He says he missed it, but he was always very protective.

He is also how long have you been married? Well, okay, so he and I have been where we are now three years. Three years. The friendship was 14 years, right? So 14 years of a lot of tears on my hand and he was watching you. He's watching you deal with nothing ever gave. He's watching me ever gave. Okay, I said that I said that that came out of my mind. He's not mine. I don't know anybody else. I'm just saying yes that y'all didn't keep her. So some happens. You know, I'll tell you what

“actually happened is I think I grew to knew me even better and I stopped trying to fix other things”

and other people. I think say that's low. Yes, being the child of a preacher, you think that you can save everybody and you can save anything and anyone from even themselves. I met and was in relationships with some really great people, but maybe not great for me. It doesn't make them bad people. That's right. Just not right for me. And when I learned to sit with myself and I did

sitting with myself. But I was still in fight of flight. I was still trying to save people. I knew

“even from my past going back. I can help them. I can help Monica help yourself. Get back into the”

word. Focus solely on your children. At this time, we were living in a hotel because I literally packed up from my marital home and said, I'm going to start over. God is speaking to me and I can hear him clearly. I'm not going to ignore anything that's being said. We moved into the hotel and shortly after COVID happens and no one knows what it is. So now we're in this hotel. So you moved out before it became a thing. Yes, absolutely. And I am very big on protecting my past and people

in it. Yeah, I can share about me without talking about exactly. Without being negative to exactly. You are the father of my children, by biological nature. However, I don't have to

disrespect you because I'm finding my way. So I never spoke on it. I didn't even announce

I was getting divorced. It was not necessary. Not to me. Yeah. And that also comes from the kitchen table. My mom, she never spoke negatively of my father. This is what we're doing. Yeah. And this is why and it was up to us to listen, to learn, to navigate the way that she does takes a lot of God, a lot of patience and a lot of respect for yourself and the other person. Because I do come

“from being a lot more aggressive. I found the softer side of things. Now when you say, what is that?”

Because that means different things to different people. And I hate when people take passion and confidence for aggressiveness. So I just wanted to know how do you define that? Because you use that term. Mine was definitely aggressive. Yeah. Okay. I'm not going to. There's no estate here. There's no estate in it. I refuse to attempt to make myself a little better. And please change and try to look out for Molly. Just wear a shirt. Okay, sir, I was positively aggressive. And whenever I was hurt, I reacted with the aggression. That is where songs like

so gone. Kick down the door and those are all real things. It's like that. It was a door. Yes. Now those are 25 year old things. Yes, it's 45. Yes. But they were things. Yes. And I owned them. Yeah. But, you know,

my mom was very gentle. She didn't raise her voice. I've never heard her curse. Yeah.

But where did you come from? Okay. I definitely, I definitely am my father's child. I was taken to the fields at two years old, given a 22 and taught to shoot out in the free reins. And my father was very different than my mother. And I think that balance is what you get with me. I didn't know how to balance them until later years. And so when I would be hurt, that's how I would respond. And that's what I was known for. Hence some of the nicknames, the Gunaker and all these names. Now I didn't give myself. He doesn't know what that means. I don't. I don't. I don't. Awesome. I love that for me. So we have a fresh start. Yes.

“We do. Because we could come up with that name for you. Yes. This was a younger self. Yes. Yes. But it gives him. But that's what I mean. Yes. I know what you're talking about. But I refuse in my mind”

back then to be played with. But now I refuse to play myself. I don't waste my time in spaces and places where I'm not appreciated. It never dawned on me. Just leave. Yeah. You know, that is still that I can fix it. It can work. There is good there. We can make this happen. And you you match that with an aggressive. Yes. Personality someone who you you're not going to. You're not going to just give me anything. But you're there. You're taking it. Yes. You're there trying to fix it. Yes. But yes. Yes. I pray that my daughter sees me navigate in this way. Because even though my mom was the.

Most amazing example. I chose within myself to respond the way I did to things because I always thought she was too nice. Yeah. Now I understand what she was doing. Now I get it. And your siblings.

You have a brother. What was his personality? Because brother sister. I would tend to be if there was a guna could title between us. So I would have been me. I didn't like it when I first heard it. So I mean, I think it was meant initially as an insult. And it was. But I accept who I was and who I am because I'm not who I used to be. So I can laugh at it. And we make jokes about it. But your brother is the more.

That's when my edge started to build, but his edge is even smooth. It's still smooth career. That's what we would consider an edge. That's my mother. That's my mother. The only time he trips me out. He's a coach. And it's been a coach. But that has to be different. Yeah. Coach Robinson. I'm like, Oh, my God. It was babies. Why are you yelling at them so much? She was so mad at me when she first saw me coach. We used to when I when I was coaching. We used to visit Washington DC. Everything's giving and do a service day have dinner at the White House with the team with college team and then we play a game on Friday and go back home.

And the first time we did it, we played at Howard University. So I took my team Howard University and we're playing the game. And we're losing. And I am screaming at my players because they're not. And we're there. The president and the first lady. And I'm like, Oh, and they just had dinner at you know, they were just over with us. These poor little boys. Now they all six eleven, but they're baby. Right. And she couldn't believe I was yelling at them like that. Really? Yeah. That comes with. That comes with it. Yes. That comes with it. I have a 17 almost 18 year old. Okay. That's at OTE. Okay. Yeah. You would tell them. Yeah. That is an elite high school. It's elite and for the far listeners who aren't in the sports tip. Tell them you. You, you, you can't just show up. Tell them to. You have to be recruited. Tell them. And it is. It is a pathway to the NBA. So listen. I.

My mother sits a few rows behind me and pretends that she did not give birth to me the entire time. Because I am, you know, there were times where listen. I'm playing both roles. So I am yelling to the top of my lungs. And I bat the ball. Take your shot. Take your shot.

“- Wow! You're Reffen, are you Reffen too?”

You coachin' and Reffen, the rest don't like to see me coming. Okay, there's a reason. There's a reason. But when I see him, I see that he believes in himself. I remind him that he can do anything.

And he chose the number one for a reason.

So I always remind him of that very loudly from the side.

So I understand your coach. - All right. - I'm with your coach. - I'm with you. - And with that's a fortune. - That's a fortune. (laughs) So just to walk a bit more through your career trajectory,

“I think everybody who knows Monica knows that story,”

but how did you manage as a 12-year-old, coming from what was, it came from a grounded home, you know, with a family that loved you, and you went into an industry that we learn every year how crazy and soul-sucking it can be.

How was it for you to retain your confidence through that process? How did you do that as a 12-year-old? And what were some of those challenges

“that you faced early on that you had to really kind of wrestle”

with as young as 12?

- I have always said that my biological father,

MC Arnold Jr., he was stern and assertive, he did not play without sighters. - Yeah, very loving towards us, but I spent a lot of years upset with him after my parents divorced.

The forgiveness came from me realizing I needed everything that he and his family showed me. Because that side of who I am is what keeps me on this side of the business.

My mom was always loving, always godly,

If she had it, you had it, but my father, you had to earn space around him. - Yeah. - And I used to sometimes just be looking at him like, "What?

"Can you chill out? "Could it feel?" - Yes, chill. I realized I needed him. - Yeah.

- Everything that I thought he wasn't was with purpose. - What did he think of your career? - Your position, your mother, was encouraging, supportive, how did your father feel about it? And were you close to him, did you continue to be?

I know you were mad at him, but did that mad mean, you weren't in contact with him? - So from about 12 to 15, no, not very much. - But my brother, they are like a set of twins. And I remember getting my first car

“that you must've bought yourself. - I don't know.”

- No, so tell it, well, so Dallas was assigned to me. And he took on that fatherly role very early because he saw what was happening with my dad and I.

And he used to always tell me, "Baby girl, he loves you.

"He's moving in the way he knows how. "He's giving you, he's trying to equip you "with things you may not understand, "but he would always let me lean in and on him. "And so he bought me this car.

"And I drove all night. "And I drove over to Brandy one that night. "When she just driving around the city, "just driving around the city, "care around the block.

"They give me this party at the risk call. "And then I drive over about one in the morning "because my aunt Evelyn, she's actually "who I look and speak like, she didn't play either. "She was very much, she used to read the comics.

"And she was sent us to play her number. "And she would have her little pistol in there "under her newspaper, where she would be going "through the archie comics to decide what numbers she would play. "As it was based on the archie comics,

"she would base it on the archie comics. "Okay, well there you go, it's a theory. "It's an approach. "I don't recall her win, you know. "She wanted life because we respected her to the max.

“"And when she said something, that's what it was.”

"She said, "Get in here, look girl.

"I was always little girl.

"My son was a little feather. "Which everybody had a name. "And I was most like her. "And I drove, so she could see the car. "But she worked the night shift.

"So I knew she would be up drinking coffee, "smoking a cigarette. "And so I just went there and then she told me "to go see my dad. "And that was it.

"And you hadn't seen him. "I had not seen him for a minute. "Yeah, no." "And what precipitated her to say that? "I don't know, and she's deceased now, I can't ask."

"But she told me to go see my dad. "And I went and saw my dad, "and we started laughing and talking." "That night in your new car." "Yes, and that conversation, and he comes down to my car.

"And he said, "It's a nice car you ain't gotten an Indian here. "That ain't safe." "So he starts loading my car with these weapons of mass destruction. "And he's like, "I was thinking you were talking about it. "First thank you."

"I know what you were talking about." "Is that you just here?" "What you just here for the first part of the conversation." "And this is H.J.." "This is H.J.."

"First thank you." "This is not the thought that he was going to put it." "This is not the thought that he was going to put it." "This is not the thought that he was going to put it." "This is not the thought that he was going to put it."

"And from that moment on, it's been the way we are now." "And my father is a double amputee now. "And my brother, I watched them." "And it just does something to me because the way they take care of each other." "You just don't know what the end of your story will be like."

“"And so when I think about 16-year-old Monica, and now, it's just world's a part."”

"You know, our mom always says this."

"It's like too many kids waste time being angry at their parents." "When, you know, as you grow up, you realize your parents are human." "And you understand the context of who they are, good or bad." "I mean, all the stories don't end as beautifully as yours did with your father." "I mean, a lot of people continue to be disappointed, let down."

"But mom used to always talk about, you know, kids having a level of empathy for what their parents could, but you know what, I think it's hard for a lot of kids. I mentor a lot of young. And I think one of the big issues is that parents have trouble being accountable, that my father's apology to me and my mother, most of, because I saw the way you treated her and part of my issue with you, had nothing to do with things you did to me, things you did to her."

"Yeah." His accountability, he took account. That is where, forget that old really transpired.

He said, "Mom, you don't fail me, you lift me. Everything I do in every session, every song,

“it's because of you. I believe because of you." He said, "How do you think Melo played away”

me?" He said, "What are you talking about? You failed me." But it's just me wanting to be accountable, because my choices affect you. They're coming first is how I feel after the storm. That was an album title, but it was really my life, no moments, or new life, or co-read. It's the state of emergency over here for me. So I step away. I haven't had an album in a decade now for

that very reason. Now it's pause. Stop. What do we need as a family? It doesn't always make the

fans as happy. Well, but you know, but the kids are. Our family is starting to plan for trips this summer. Aside from all the basketball travel you've heard me talk about, we want to make time for a family vacation. And we're hoping to travel internationally this year, maybe Spain, France, or Italy, because we really love to eat and Italian food is our favorite. We also want to invite our older children and their

families to come with us. If they all say yes, we're talking about at least eight adult-sized people and their luggage. So we could use the extra space. Traveling with family is so much better when staying at homes on Airbnb. There's more space and it's so nice that we get to explore new neighborhoods and cities thanks to hosts who open their homes so families like ours can explore. And boy, do we like to explore? Thanks to our friends that shipped for sponsoring this episode.

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Download the app or order now at ship.com, that's SHIPT.com. So given that, then what was the inspiration for doing this tour? My children were my greatest inspiration and Anthony reminded me that I now have the support to do it. Also inspired me because I'm not doing it alone. And then Brandy and I had a conversation that really was the catalyst for the change that was needed for us to do this. So many people wanted

us to do it, but it was too much unresolved and we had not spoken at all. We had not seen each other in almost seven or eight years. That's not the way you do a co-headlining tour. I kept saying, we just need to speak because the women we've become, I believe they can come together in a

“completely different capacity. And that's what you saw. Can you share some of that? I know Brandy's”

not here, Brandy has loved you as to you. I think she couldn't make being here. And

but if they're aspects to what the content of that was for you. You know what? I'm very protective

“of her. It happened without me. And I could tell, behind time, I could tell, you know? I mean,”

yes, I could tell in our greet. And I mean, I get it, you know, a lot was required of her. Yeah. Yeah. I did what I wanted. Yeah. Whether it was good or bad, I did what I wanted. She did the right thing all the time. And that's heavy. That's a heavy load. And she loves for things to be perfect. She challenges herself. All that dancing you saw? Yes, she's telling me. It was hard. It was hard. Because y'all, if you didn't go to the concert,

because are you all extending? Because you talked about we've not decided. Okay. I

will say I know that there's a request you all have dates. Your promoters told me that. Did that? No, they came up there like we tried to get them to get more dates. I was like,

“okay, I don't know if I can do anything, but I'll do what if she wants to. But it was a show,”

right? You all are moving. And those dancers, the male dancers, they were so good. I mean, she chose each of them. Yeah. Her and her very close. They got together. They and I and I were like, I don't do all this movement. No, Monica's like, I like to sit on it on a chair and tell a story and Brandy wanted smoke. You said the smoke in the fire was nice in this. Yes, I was okay. This is why I feel like so some of the fans started calling us Bronica.

Okay, so Bronica is a group name. Right. Bronica, we are, we complement each other. Yeah. It's a marriage. So she had a lot of ideas to opening. Oh, her. Yeah. All her. The boy is mine, the song. All her. Rodney Jerkins, LaShondang, it was for it that it was them. They called me. I was in Atlanta doing whatever I was doing and you were yelling at them, the bleachers. Oh, no, I don't know. I was about to expect them. Oh, you mean the original song. Yes.

Oh, it was all her. That all brought us to this moment. And so for me, what I bring is the visuals. I want, I want the true story to be there. I was like, at some point, they need to hear our voices, not just the songs. What was happening in our lives? Let's not avoid the tragedies and what made us who we are as women. Let's talk about our children and what transpired. Let's make sure the children are a part of it. I'm big on the fashion. She let me. She's like, okay, you have

your way there. But you're gonna do it. But you're gonna, you're gonna get this two step right here. We're gonna snap and pause. Then we're gonna. And I let it happen. But that's the trust. Yeah. Because she also trust me to protect her when it's not okay. You know, we were in Chicago and she wasn't. She hadn't been feeling well. A lot of anxiety. A lot of things were transpiring.

Things were happening. You know, when a show starts, yeah. Those first two to three weeks,

you are flushing through millions of dollars worth of ideas and technical things. Yeah. It's not going to be what you had the opportunity to see right away. And if you think about it, we absolutely adore Beyonce and usher. You think about the first shows, whether it was the car

“in the ear or something. Whatever happens, you have to fight through those things. And even when”

she's not feeling well, I feel this thing come over me. That's like step off. Yeah. Give her a moment. Yeah. She's giving you 30 years. Yeah. A perfection acting, singing, dancing. All of these things. She's given it to you. Yeah. So give her some grace. Yeah. I'm not even asking for the grace for myself, yeah. That's, it just happened when that part of the conversation that you all had that to a grown woman talk. No. No, it wasn't. Our conversation was strictly about what we felt for

one another and how much of that had that that transpired back then that had nothing to do with either of us. That was all our conversation was about. Yeah. So Monica, can you talk a little bit about for our listeners who don't know what you all went through early on? Yes. Can you talk a little bit about it because I just came to know the story and I was appalled. Yes. That the industry and the fans and the fans and however it happened, you guys got pitted against each other

without you even having any kind of real beefy for it. Yeah. It just, it just was fabricated.

does, the bad does. And that's really what happened. And when you think about it, it's not like we

“grew up with one another. Right. I was in Atlanta. She was in California. We weren't even near”

each other to have a reason to have issues. But you see, it still happens now. The divisiveness can be so bizarre. If you see a share of this stage, why would you come to this concert and act as if you're here for one and not the other or I'd rather this one or I'd rather. Well, there's one option with this ticket, ma'am. This is the way it is. But we didn't have those strengths. As youths to say, this is what we should do. And what happens is, once that train began to move,

it was more like a freight train, not a trolley. It was in motion. And we couldn't stop it and it

became a very real thing. So we've taken that bull by the horns because the rivalry should be non-existent. Listen, I do not compare myself vocally to her or her to me. Her donation, her agility,

“the rasp, the way she does things. It is branding. Me, the strength that gospel movement you”

hear, even when I'm singing a love song, those things are me. They're not to be compared or dissected. What makes the boy as mine so great is that the two of us are so different. But we had no idea that the song will feel people's ideals as well. And so then we will wake up, morning shows,

there would be skits about us, there would be fights that they would create. It was all in jokes and

fun and it became very real for us. And you all were held at this time. I was 17, she was 18. You know, babies, babies. So if you imagine, this was our high school. So you know how the two popular girls get pitted against each other in a high school, that can be dangerous because one has the influence on one group. One has an influence on another group versus acknowledging that our influence and impact together is stronger than anything separate. But a lot of this also has to do

when it comes to women minorities, they're only a handful of slots. Right. Right. And that also fuels that battle. Right. Whereas male performers, male groups, white, that tradition will happen as much as with the men because everybody can be put through the men on one song and women don't choose. That's screen for all three. Yeah. You know, it's very different. It's more it's less black and white and more male female in my opinion or what I found. And it is frustrating. Yeah. But when our record

was released, everywhere I would go, I'm Monica when I sing my part or sometimes I'm brandy. Like almost like, you know, I'm half to choose. Right. Right. You know, every other song, you sing the background's leads, the sing both part. Get over it. We're over it. Get over it. Join us, please. Yeah. You know, so I'm hoping that what they've seen in these 32 cities and all of the promos and all of the moving around, you can't fake this. No. You just can't. And at the time

you together, you just can't. Yeah. And my one of my favorite moments was when the two of you came on stage in the end and white and paid tribute to the queen, Ms. Whitney Houston. I mean, I teared up. Yeah. Can you talk about that relationship and that moment in the concert for you on? Whitney

“was one of the few people that saw us for who we really were. And I think she and I had such a great”

relationship because although I was a huge fan of hers growing up, immediately upon meeting her, I felt that she wanted some space from there. So we didn't do fanfare a lot. We did a lot of sitting at my kitchen table, her shoes off laughing and talking. If Bob pissed her off, she could call my phone and tell me the story just as I could call her until her to story, you know, we shared those moments a lot more than we shared working moments if that makes sense. So our relationship

was when you see in the montage, I'm there for her HBO special, but I don't even have makeup. I just have lipstick and my hair is on ponytail because I'm really there as her little sister who's just wanting to show her that, yes, I admire you and I love you. You can just be yourself at all times. And she loved that I was okay with doing nothing. That was something she wanted, a lot of. She wanted a lot of, she loved to watch them play cars. And Bob and his sisters were

And it was off record. There were no cameras. There were no, we didn't talk about work at all.

And one thing she used to always say is, be you no matter what, yeah, even if it doesn't feel good

to them, it's going to feel good to you later. I have been perfect for far longer than I want it to be. That was just what our relationship was. So in speaking about helping others, which we'd like to do with our listener question, but I want to I want to ask you this because I find your journey has been absolutely wonderful. Is there anything now that you look back as a 45-year-old that you would have done differently when you were talking to the 14, 15, 16-year-old that you

can share? Yes. And it is only one thing. Only one thing. I would remind myself not to have or bare guilt for making it. There is a such thing as survivor's remorse. And it was heavy for me. Until I was 24 and gave birth for the first time, I spent a lot of time giving to lifting up, paying for, leaning into a lot of people that they just didn't mean me very much good. And my survivor's remorse kept me there because if I'm the one that made it out, I don't want

you to think that I think. Because I didn't. That's right. But the reality is that some things

are blessed with. They are for you. They're not for everyone. And had I spent less time trying to give everything that was given to me to others? Yeah. I would have done a lot more in that time friend.

“And that's how 16-year-old's feel. That's how a 21-year-old's feel. The difference is that most”

people don't have enough to give away at that age when they're learning other celebrities, they adapted to arrogance. You can't go. Yeah. I am above. And I despise. I didn't want to be that. But there's a place in between. When I talk to our kids, minority kids in college, I often try to address the issue or survivors remorse because it happens to us, whether we're stars or wherever. If you've made it a little bit more than the people you've come from,

that guilt is still there. And I see it a lot in kids who are going to college. Maybe you were the one that got in. You were the one that got the scholarship. And everybody's proud of you.

But you're going to a place that your people never went. So you feel like you're leaving people behind.

And a lot of times, kids in that position find themselves trying to bring everybody alone. Right? So they're wasting their scholarship money because they're using that to pay for the

“electricity bill. It was nothing that I did for myself. Yeah. And guess what? Guess who asked for the least?”

My family. My mother has never asked for anything. That's your mother. They're not even tired from her jobs. She kept telling me about these packages and wrenches and plans. And my father, he did everything. He was a hustler and he worked on freight to yellow freight. That it wasn't my family. It was the people that I felt the most guilty for feeling as if I was leaving them. And I wasn't leaving them. I was elevating myself and doing what

God intended me to do. And I didn't have the maturity or the understanding that's right. And after losing everything, including a human being, you know, witnessing a suicide at a very young age. And understanding that no one is going to help me fix what I'm feeling now.

“And I remember telling my mom that I was pregnant for the first time. And all of a sudden,”

all this stuff, I asked her to do. She started doing it. She takes this package. She does the big goodbye over a delta. I'm like, oh, this is not how to do it. She just like bring a grand baby. I'm not there. And she said, she said, but now you need me. Yeah. Now you need me. Yeah. You found your way in a way that's admirable. And God's been guiding you. Hold on to that. Yeah. Hold on to his unchanging hand. And then I'll be right here in the midst with you. And so

I've never had nannies or anything like that. I mean, if I did it again, I would. My mother

I didn't know to let go to just let go and elevate let go. And that and that's the message.

“I because we we have a lot of young listeners. It's like it's okay to let go because you it's that”

our oxygen mask theory. It's like, you can't help anybody while you're still becoming. Yeah. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Fairfloo. Fairfloo, makers of fast acting cold and flu relief, believes everyone deserves the right to rest and recover when they're sick. No matter where they live or how much money they make, when I was coaching, if I got sick, I found it hard to choose between taking time for myself to rest and heal and showing up

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Find furniture, decor, and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's WA/F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. I want to talk a little bit about Monica now, at at at 45. I mean, you've been a wise one, you know, someone beyond your years all your life.

And my belief is that you came here that way, and I'm sure if your mother and father were here,

they'd be like, yeah, my mom would say, oh, she was not like that. She was always like that.

What I'm interested in for women who are in our maturing years, now I'm six, I will be 62. But I know that I am experiencing something very different in myself at the older I get. That is so much better than youth. And that's the opposite of what we're told, and it's the opposite of what society says to us, particularly as women. I feel so much more grounded, powerful, beautiful, healthy, and it gets better with every decade.

How do you, how are you experiencing your maturity? Because you know we're near it, but you

“you are becoming even more. How do you think about that? How do you articulate that?”

I always say this is the happiest I've ever been in every area of life.

It seemed as if when I was younger, when business was great, prime example, break up, then number one record. Like, whoa, damn. Yeah, good. They just go hand in hand and happily married and have a number one record. Those don't

the most fun. Yeah. When I don't want to go, I don't feel like I need to give a reason.

“Yeah. I'm not coming. Yeah. When I don't feel okay, I don't have to explain it. I just don't”

feel okay today. I'm confident in those things. And I know that anywhere I'm supposed to be, I'll be there. If something doesn't work out, I'm not crying about the things that don't happen anymore. There is just this joy that has overtaken. Now I enjoy the way I look more now. I don't even pick it apart. I know what I like. Yeah. I know what works on me, whether it's on trend or not. Yes. It's what I'm buying. It's what I'm doing. It's that it's, I don't know. It's

just the joy. I like the way that I speak. I used to say, oh my God, that I might have said it to stern, that I don't question myself anymore. I said it exactly how I was supposed to. If you don't understand it, you're bad. Yeah. You know, but there was a time where especially right at that 35 point, I became very concerned with how I made everyone else feel all the time. Maybe it was because

I had just given birth to a girl for the first time. You know, I had the boys. Yeah. And being a boy

mom is very different. Then now you have, I don't know. I got two girls, but I've heard. Listen, it's different because that ball of emotions when it's happened. It's my time and her time in the same house. Woo. What is this? You know, that's different because the boys just be like, you know, and now she's like, Mom, are you listening? You know, so they're, they're just totally different, but I'm so secure and who I am and who's with me and who's not. I'm okay with everything

that I let go of. I'm okay with, I don't feel like there's an opportunity that I was supposed to

“have sees that I didn't, I'm loving it. I'm loving it. I'm loving it all. Don't you all feel it, right?”

Yes, I've had so many people say, oh my God, I'm turning 30 and they have tears. Young lady, they used to work for me. She cried for weeks before she turned 30. And so I looked at I said, do you know the alternative to not age? You're right. The alternative is, you know, as much as we all want to see our Lord and Savior one day, not today. Yes. So the alternative for not ageing is fine. That's right. And many of us didn't make it. We're one of the ones who did. So when

do you celebrate that? I say 45 so fast and if you can't do me. If you catch me in September, I'll be saying 46. So you can prepare for me. What does Crystal said that all the time I would be 62 in January, but I've been saying I want to be 62. Yes, because it's coming. It's coming. And they're like, you don't want to be there. Ma'am, you're not 62. You're 61. It's like, well, it's coming. You're round. I'm there. I don't think you don't want to be there. I want to get

there. Yes, every year is success. Yes. All right. And when I look at some of the youngers, I'm really proud of all of us because some of the 25s, our 45s, we're holding up. But it's how we see ourselves. It's how we take care of ourselves. It's how we love ourselves. Because if you're beating up on you, you start to look like what you've been through. I don't want to look like what I've been through. Right. I don't want to do that. Yeah. So I'm happy. Maybe this is a good time

to segue to our listener question because that's also an important part of IMO is that we try to impart wisdom on some of our listeners who call in with questions. Okay. Do you think it's a good time? I have whatever you say. I love you, God. I'd like you, too. My brother would definitely be like some of you, some of you. I'm turning 34 soon and most of my friends are having babies.

I've never strongly wanted to be a mother and my partner is fully supportive of that. But recently,

I've been feeling torn. Most days, I'm certain I don't want kids. But others, I feel like I'm missing you know, how can I tell if those feelings come from social pressure, hormones or a real desire

“to be a mom? And you said she's 34, 34, 34. So she's clock ticking. That's what they tell us.”

Yeah, that's what they tell us. That's what they tell us. Well, see, this, this one is hard because, again, everything is faith-based for me and my family, right? So what I would do if I were hurt, I would start praying and journaling about all of my

even more because they get out. You figure it out first because becoming a parent is

until you leave this earth, you will be parenting. We were talking about that walk and in. Yes, it's kind of just changes, but it is constant. I am just as concerned about my 21-year-old as I was when he was 12 or when he was two. And people, we don't talk about that as parents. I mean, it's just sort of like, have a baby. Right, but the parents just change. Yeah, but they change.

“For ever, and ever, and ever, it is the man, and it is an act that you have to be in the most”

selfless state of mind to do well. Yes. Parents in is not done well if you are your first thought. Yeah. And there will be some people that argue with me about that. But I don't care what you say. If you wake up in the morning and your first thought is you, you're not ready. That's right. You're not ready. That's right. Because when I wake up, it just alternates between which one of them I've gone to sleep thinking about accommodating, checking on something for,

organizing with, praying for or with. I mean, even with the 12-year-old, you pull up to school. You, I have already started her. She prays with me before she gets out of the car, because I need her to be able to navigate her day with a clear mind and know who she is, and who's she is. Yes. What did that happen before you had a child? What did that happen before you had a child? What happened before I had a child? What? Somebody thinking about yourself.

No, your first is, is that I always want it to be apparent. So I was a child that would play

with, you know, I was always the child that was destined. I didn't get to meet my grandfather. Elfanzo paid, right? I didn't get to meet him. He was killed in a car accident before I was born. And my aunt Ruth, who just recently passed, wrote me a letter when I got married about how my mother per their father's words was born to be a mom. And that she saw these same things in me.

“And remember, my mom thought I would be a pediatrician because I always would gather the key”

I said, so I always wanted to be a parent. I tell my friends that say they aren't sure, don't know, but be still and know the crystal. We've been having this conversation for like two years. Really. Be still. Yeah. Until you know, because it is the one thing that children suffer the most when you aren't ready, when you don't want it, when you don't love it or you or when you don't know your why, right? I think that if you were just trying to have a child

before you thought about why. Yes, right? Yes. Because your why completely altars how you will parents, right? Because if you were having a child because you are lonely, yes, or you're made once. Right. Or you want to many me. Yes. Or you know, you you want somebody to love you unconditionally. Yes. Right. To meet those are all the wrong reasons all the wrong, you know, and if you haven't dealt with your childhood trauma, then you you almost just put those

“onto your children. That's why I say it's a selfless act. Even co-parenting because guess what,”

you know, people at the conversation was very heavy when I gave birth to the boys. I wasn't married when I had my daughter. I was, right? I've done it both ways. The requirements are still the same because guess what? I still ended up with single parent both times. So the reality, even though

I spent decades with each person, I haven't been with many people. Yeah. The reality is still that

I am their mother 24 hours a day. What they require? It is important for me to make sure I am speaking to and teaching to that. If I can't bring my feelings out of it, yeah, some of the time, especially when you're co-parent. If you can't pour yourself out of it, you're not going to do was right for them. Yeah. So you're not ready. But I do hate that now. People are looking at the biological clock. Yes. Versus the maturity, the stability, and the full-on preparation it takes to be a good

parent. And that's why I always say, I want, I try to promote the notion that it is completely okay,

not necessarily expensive commitment. Forever and ever. I'm in. They never go away.

If I may, because I'm not a woman. No. But this really forces this reinforces what I think

“is important for men, just listening to you and understanding Catalina's issue is you have to”

pick the right partner. For any case. You have to pick the right partner. I mean, I, you know, what you said Monica, about parenting is forever. Me, you always say know your why. That's all right, and dealing with your childhood trauma. All of that is really important. But for the men out there, you see what women are going through to make this decision. It is really important to pick your right partner if you want to have children. So that's another way of saying men should be as cautious

“as we're saying women need to be. Well, you all put it very nicely. Yeah, should hear my conversations”

with my son. What do you say to yourself? I can't. I say it. Okay. But I do. I can be very honest. I can't be very honest because they don't have a mother that would ever support them doing anything other than being great fathers. Yes. That is a non-negotiable because I know what single parenting feels like. And if there is a way to make sure that they have healthy, whole

relationships and both parents, that's the goal. Yep. That it's never not the goal. And so I use

myself and my own choices and my experiences very openly for them to make theirs. Yeah. My firm message is first of all, it is absolutely fine not to want children. It is not selfish. It is probably the most unselfish thing you can do. Is to is to choose to be a parent. Yeah. But like you said, Monica, because once you choose it, society needs you to be really good at it. And a rock at the nerve to be like, we can have three or four. And I was like, well,

you're president now. That's our third child. I don't have room on this schedule. But that's just,

that's just me. So, well, Monica, this has been a real treat for me. You were so good to me. You were the first person that I brought up when she and I saw each other. I said, you do know have a brother and we don't play about each other. I love watching you to communicate. Of course, she didn't tell me. You didn't tell me. Did not tell me. Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. Grief can feel so lonely. But talking about it and

“listening to others share their experiences, helps. It's probably the only thing that's really helped me.”

On my podcast, all there is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities. You'll hear deeply moving and honest discussions with people who have faced and are living with life-altering losses. Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.