Impactful Communication for Leaders

Welcome to the Instant Knowledge Podcast. I'm your host, Geraldine E. Senior Editor of Instant Knowledge. This podcast series features conversations with insert faculty about their latest research, where they offer their opinions on the challenges facing business and society today. In this episode we'll be talking about communication.

If leading us about influence, there is no influence without communication. After all, leading effectively and just on how you communicate in ways that mobilize others and connect with the emotions, goals and needs. Today, Andy Yapp, associate professor of organization or behavior at NCAD, or be speaking about how leaders can communicate in an impactful way.

Andy is the program director of two NCAD executive education programs. Namely, executive presence and influence, as well as impactful communication for leaders. He is therefore very well placed to share his insights with us. Thank you for joining us today, Andy. Thank you, nice to be here.

So first of all, Andy, communication is deemed impactful when it is able to mobilize people

“and connect with them. Why is it important to not only appeal to the head, but also to the heart?”

Well, you know, appealing to the head is important. It gives people the facts. The rationale, the why it makes sense. But if you stop there, you only have a way to real impact. That's because the heart moves people. Emotion is what drives action. It's what turns a good idea into a shared purpose. So think about it. People don't really around spreadsheets or numbers. They really around stories.

Around sense of meaning and purpose. If you're leading and you're not connecting emotionally, then you're just broadcasting information. You're not building belief in you and your vision as a leader. So the best leaders know how to do both. I think the best leaders are able to align logic with emotion.

So that what you're saying doesn't just make sense, it's meaningful to people. That's when people move with you and not just, you know, behind you, that's when they follow you as a leader. So as the saying goes, the greatest leader is not the one who achieves the most alone, but the one who inspires and empowers others to achieve greatness together.

“To inspire and empower, I believe you need to appeal to both the hate and heart.”

Thank you, very inspiring start to the conversation.

So the million dollar question is always the house.

So how can leaders communicate in a way that appeals to both the hate and the heart? So I think it starts with listening. And I mean really listening, not just waiting for your turn to talk, but trying to understand what matters to the people in front of you. What are they worried about?

What do they care about? What do they need to hear? I think that that's the foundation of any message that sticks. Because the truth is impactful communication isn't just about what you say, it's about what people feel when you say it. So the best leaders know how to read the room.

They pick up on energy, body language, even the stuff that isn't being set out loud. And then they adjust. And I think they adjust not to impress, but they adjust because they want to connect. Because when people feel like you get them, they are more likely to listen to you, they're more like to trust you, they're more like to follow you as a leader.

I also think that stories are powerful.

But I want to be very clear, I don't mean long-winded speeches or fairy tales. I mean sharp purposeful stories that move people.

“I think that people are wired to remember stories.”

When you wrap facts in emotion and context, stories speak to both the hate and the heart. That's when your message really sticks. I often tell my executives that a facts tell, but stories sell. Very true. Nothing stories are not that it works, of course.

And then we know that there are also easy conversations and difficult conversations. So we know communication can be highly stressful in situations such as conflict resolution, high sticks discussion, and even mentoring sometimes. So how can leaders cope with the stress of communication? I mean, I think stress in communication is often anticipatory.

So it kicks in before the conversation actually begins. When you're waiting for your turn to go on stage to speak or waiting for your turn, as you raise your hand for your boss or your colleague to call on you, you imagine sometimes the worst case scenarios. You raise your attention or you raise for like most of your questions.

And sometimes you second guess yourselves. But the stress can be refrained. For example, I mean tell yourself, it's your body getting ready to perform. Not a sign that you're not prepared. But once you are in the conversation, I think that staying composed is key.

Sometimes I take deep breaths. I give myself a quick mental nudge. Okay, this is challenges, not a threat. I can do this. And don't underestimate the power of a well-time pause.

It helps you stay grounded. It gives people space to absorb what you're saying. But let's be honest, no one expects you to be a robot in tough conversations. We are human, you are human. It's okay to show emotion.

In fact, showing some feeling can make you more relatable, more real, more authentic. But there's a big difference between expressing emotion and letting it run the show.

“I think when emotion sticks over, clarity goes out of window.”

And so does your ability to lead the moment as you're working with people. So regulating your emotions isn't about bottling things up. It's about staying steady enough to think more clearly, speak calmly and keep the conversation on track. Even though you're uncomfortable on inside.

And lastly, I think that sometimes an internal voice, the one whispering that you're not really, or you're not experiencing enough. You don't have enough white hair, especially in nature, or you don't really belong at a table. And that's imposter syndrome.

I felt it, maybe you have it too.

It can make even the most experienced capable leaders second guests themselves.

Suddenly, you hesitate to speak, you feel more stress, you speak less decisive, and sometimes you avoid tough conversations altogether. But remember Barack Obama once shared that early in his career, he walked into rooms assuming everyone else had it all figured out. I think he realized that most people were just winging it.

This takeaway was, if they belong at the table, so do you. I often help executives overcome some of these imposter syndrome, challenges with imposter syndrome, because it's a little bit like I'm uninvited gas in your head, and I'm very loud, persistent, kind of rude, and annoying. And the more you pretend is not there, the more space it actually takes up in your mind.

So what do you do? One way to call it out, just naming it gives you back some control.

“Preparation is key, I think preparation helps, but what really shifts things is remembering”

that you are not there to prove yourself, you are there because you've earned it. And you're already in the room, so own it. Very cool. So understand, I mean, you talk to a lot of top executives all the time you teach them. And for you yourself, is there a smiley size that you do to kind of prep yourself before you communicate?

You know, institutions that are starting stressful for you? For one, I tried to warm up my voice, just like when I just did before this podcast. It's important for you to do that, because if not, you know, if you haven't spoken for a long time before before going to this conversation, your voice will break, and as an introvert, I don't speak a lot very often. You might not agree, but you might not think I am, but and some of you want my voice.

The second thing is you need to anticipate what they're going to share. So you need to start reading them why are they, you know, having this conversation with you. And you, in some ways, need to be very careful and need to be accurate doing that. From a leadership space, sometimes where your boss says, come and see me.

I always think hard to look, don't do that, because it creates a lot of stress in people,

because people start imagining the worst things, the worst scenarios. So if it's your boss doing that, so you kind of have to anticipate trying to get a sense, maybe right back and just check in a little bit about asking, you know, what is this about, try to read from their perspective before? But of course, you know, you're as accurate as the intelligence that you've gathered,

and so don't be fixated on that, but at least be solid prepared for it. And I think during the conversation, as I mentioned, you want to stay grounded. You want to keep calm and you try to listen from their perspective first before reacting. Earlier you mentioned authenticity, so I'm very curious. We often hear of the importance of authenticity and communication, so what do you make of it?

“Well, thank you for that question. I think it's essential, but it's often misunderstood.”

It's not about being unfilled or always speaking your mind, and I think it's about aligning your communication with you and your values. When what you say matches what you stand for, I think that's authenticity. I think people pick up on that quite naturally. They sense it when you're consistent, they sense it when you're sincere, behind your words,

and where there is clear purpose driving what you're saying, and I think that builds trust. Now, that said, being authentic doesn't mean you cannot adapt. An introvert can project just as much presence and confidence and energy as an extrovert. You'd be very tired after that, but it can do that. As long as it's coming from a place that feels real to them.

A lot of leaders fall into the trap of trying to be perfect, but here's the thing.

You don't need to have audiences. What really matters is how you show up, are you clear? Are you grounded? Do you believe in what you're saying? Because in the end, people don't follow someone who's perfect. People follow someone who's real and someone who believes in what they're saying.

That's conviction. I'm going to start being real and less perfect. Yes, so we're going to bring this conversation into a typical workplace.

how can leaders make communication effective and impactful to more diverse audience?

“So I think in today's global workplace, communication isn't just about clarity.”

It's about cultural intelligence. What resonates in one context may fall flat or even backfire in another? So effective communicators must be able to read the room, the region, and the relationships that people have with one another. I can tell you the real-life story of my two friends. As you know, NCL is a very global place. We invite people from across the world to be our students, to work with us as colleagues and our clients.

So I have these two friends. One comes from a culture that is extremely direct. When they want something, they tell you directly. There's nothing rude about it. It's just part of the culture. Another one comes from a culture whereby they need to show a lot of politeness and courtesy.

So this person is very indirect. In fact, he's one of the most indirect people I've met. When the one who's direct, when he wants to hang out, he was like, "Hey, what are you doing on Saturday?" You hang out. Right away. Very clear, very straightforward, very direct. Whereas the other one would be, "I checked with whether the Saturday looks good." Yeah. Temperature is great. My mind was like, "Come on in Singapore. The weather is the same all the way around."

It takes like five minutes before he starts saying, "What you're up to on Saturday?" I'm kind of free as well.

And then finally after ten minutes, he was like, "Okay, do you want to hang out or do you want to do it?"

And so what's interesting was somehow your friends with me. Maybe because I've worked with a lot of people for variety or cultures to understand what they're like. But interesting things, the friends with me, but I don't know if they're friends with one another. One day I saw them having lunch and it was one of the most awkward first dates I've ever seen. And then I spoke with them independently, separately.

And I thought, "Why? Culture shapes your values." This is a shape the way you communicate. So for the person who's direct, and he mentioned, "I mean, culture is culture." You know, being direct is being honest. I'm being transparent. I'm saying exactly what I want. I'm not hiding anything. But when you're in direct, you don't review to me.

Are you expecting me to read between the lines and many lines or read your mind?

I still wondering whether you're honest with me.

On the other hand, if you're really direct in the culture where it's very indirect, it feels like you're rude. You don't respect space or things that you just tell me exactly what you're thinking. So it's a clash of values. I think over time, I mean, I think they're friends now. They seem happy, at least they're smiling to one another. But I think it requires people to really understand and be mindful of culture norms.

Now, in the workplace, beyond just culture norms, culture norms will also shape power dynamics. And they're a lot of unspoken rules. For example, direct feedback, maybe value in one culture, but perceive as abrasive in another. A joke that works in New York may confuse or fan a team in Tokyo. I made that mistake myself.

So I think that effective communication really starts with adaptability, especially from the perspective of understanding cross cultural communication.

“But here's a thing. It doesn't mean that you need to, or you might lose yourself.”

I often suggest that you can be adaptive. It can be adaptable. You can be agile. But you need to stay rooted in your core values. Trust, respect, and collaboration. And from there, you adjust how you show up.

Maybe it's your tone, your pace, your body language, especially if you're working across culture. So it's not about being fake. I think it's about being thoughtful and considerate. It's about meeting people where they are while staying true to what you stand for. And honestly, I think one of the most underrated skills is from across cultural communication perspective is actually just paying attention. Read the room.

And notice who's engaged, who's holding back, how their words are landing. And sometimes what's not said speaks louder than what it is. So at the end of the day, great communicators don't just talk. And I think they should be able to listen to adapt. Make people feel understood.

That's when real connection actually happens. So it's a lot more to read anything. Absolutely. A lot of reading, then talking actually. Yes. So just now you mentioned, Barack Obama is one of the greatest communicators.

“How can leaders or anyone for that matter get better communication?”

Does it help to emulate a role model's communication style? I think that emulating a role model can be a very good starting point. Watching how good communicators use the voice structure of their body language or presence to offer insights and make it impact. But here's the catch. You're not them.

But you know what, that's actually a good thing. So at some point, every leader needs to develop their own voice. One that reflects their values, their personality, their leadership identity.

But having a style isn't the whole story.

The best communicators unjust authentic their agile. As I've mentioned before, they need to know when to bring in the energy. When to hold back, when to hold the space, when to simplify, when to use jargons, and when to actually stirring motion.

“So think about it. The tone you strike in a bar room is going to be very different from how you should show up in a 101 mentoring moment.”

You know, one might call for more presence and precision. And the other is about warm vulnerability and openness. So yes, learning from others, learn from others, that's useful. But try to grow by learning to read the room. Read your context, read your audience, respond with with intention after you're able to read them.

Because great communication isn't just about, you know, how you speak. Is so how you adapt, how you connect to people in that particular context in that particular culture. The lot of rings in some ways, that there's no one style to root them all. The real power is knowing yourself and knowing when to adapt. So it's a lot also about self-refection, iteration, learning by doing.

Yes, absolutely. Make mistakes. And I think, you know, sometimes people are afraid of making mistakes. Hopefully, your mistakes are not too costly.

“But find space to make mistakes. That's how you learn.”

There's no one, there's no one, like playbook to say. Here's how you understand and master all cultures. All kinds of audiences, because cultures do change. And your audience are very varied, very complex. And sometimes you have a mix of people in your audience.

And you need to learn how to read them accurately. And then potentially let me mistake sometimes. What about finding a partner to practice? Yes, absolutely. Try to find people who, when we say, you know, accurate, but nasty things about you. You know, in academia, exactly in academia, we, you know, we are in a very, you know, academia is a very tough, toxic environment sometimes.

Because we criticize everything for the sake of improving science. We look at every loophole, every flaw in every research design.

And every time we, we, some, and for me, and when I, before I summit a paper to a journal, which will give me very nasty feedback in the first place,

I was sent to a friend with someone called Emma, a nasty friend. Nasty friend, nasty because they are willing to give you the tough criticisms that you often would get from reviewers anyways, but they are still a friend, they're still on your side. And so find, find your nasty friend. Oh, that's probably a few nasty friends.

Very good advice. Thank you very much for this conversation. It's been very, very insightful, but any last words before me. Yeah, I think one more, one more, I think that this, this point is often overlooked. We, we sometimes tend to call communication a soft skill. But I think that term can be misleading.

It makes it sound easy or secondary, when in reality, it's actually one of the hardest things to master. Communication challenges are very ambiguous, emotional and deeply human, which makes them incredibly complex. I've seen some very intelligent people in my last decade here in Seattle can make executives. They have very clear, strong technical skills, but it's a trouble reading people. Their colleagues, their friends, their family, their loved ones, their children.

So think of it as, you know, hard skill, soft, clear problems, but communication navigates the messy ones. To handle the complexity, leaders need to be like water, adaptable, responsive and fluid. As cliche as it sounds, you know, Bruce Lee once mentioned, "Be water my friend."

“And that's what communication demands, the ability to flow around resistance, adjust to the context and the culture,”

and shape yourself to connect more effectively. My friends, that's not weakness, it's power. So in today's world, soft skills, unsoft, they are your shopper's age. Thank you for having me here.

Thank you for this very, very amazing conversation.

I think we've got a lot to practice after this. Thank you for giving us some homework to do. And for our listeners, thank you for listening. For more in-depth content, please visit the Instant Knowledge website.