Taylor Frankie Paul and why Mom Influencers use their Children for Content

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"Goodest for Alla." "Mrs. Sigma is a real data, and serial system will be addicted and all ticks it fast to the number one tabloid real life card. Listen in, Lucid O. Woohoo! Hannah McDonald!" "Jews to school." Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop.

Oof, I've got such a Juicy show for you with an expert who's going to weigh in.

I'm going to explain that in a minute. But first, let me remind you again,

“Salt Lake City people. I mean, we are going to be talking about secret lives of Mormon wives.”

We're going to be talking about real houses, Salt Lake City. We're going to talk about real houses, Beverly Hills. We're going to talk about all the Juicy funding stuff that's happened. It's going to be a fun escape, and it's going to be at Wiseguys this weekend. Please go to hathamigtall.net to get tickets.

I'll see you in Salt Lake City. Okay, latest on Taylor Frankie Paul. As of this recording, the bachelor at is still ready to air on Sunday night. They don't give a shit. Okay, of what is going on. Super Juicy info coming on at TMZ. People that had were on set and were part of the taping of senior reunion three.

The third reunion, third season.

They said there was a whole moment at that reunion between Taylor and her baby daddy on an off boyfriend Dakota, where he accused her of physical abuse. She accused him back. They chose not to share that footage with us. They claimed the people that according to TMZ that worked on the show said it didn't have to do with the season, because the fights that they're talking about was not aired.

Now we know we've all watched plenty of reunions on Real Huff House at Beverly Hills, and that doesn't matter. Someone could be like, "You at our trip, you said, and at dinner, and it was not filmed,

“and that comes out, and you're like, "Oh, that's why those two women really had an issue,”

or like when Kyle on Real House Beverly Hills said to Garcel, "You held up your paddle to pay

a donation to my charity, and you never paid." Well, that's something we didn't see happen on

the show. So obviously, in my opinion, I think that the production knew that this was a volatile awful situation that probably should have been handled prior to this latest incident, causing the girls who are now executive producers. The last report I read, it's them who said, "We don't want to film with Taylor Freaky Paul anymore." That's the latest rumor I'm hearing. That's what caused them to stop filming. Not necessarily their moral high ground, and then they said,

"But we want them both to have psych evaluations." Well, who's telling the truth? We're going to get more into that with an expert in my interview. So now I'm going to switch to something a little lighter, okay? Demi had a crazy last year of life because she went to the villa also a show on Hulu, and Marciano was there, and they according to him and coming on my show spent six hours talking about intimate things in their life.

They shared a kiss, and when she left, they both said, "I love you," and they talked after that,

“and then he got involved with the other cast member named Jesse. That's why this show is juicy,”

okay? But it can be funny too. And Demi is still with her husband, and all of a sudden they just show them heading to a recording studio. And you're like, "How they're of course, they're starting a podcast. No, it's scarier than that." They did a duet. They sang a song. And because she refused to do interviews, there's no point where they'd normally would cut to an interview, and they would say, "Now tell me why you thought it would be good for

you and Jordan to become the next Sunny and Share. We don't know why. We don't know if they're going to do cover bands, we don't know if they're going to do a Tom's sand of all thing. We don't know if they're going to be Sunny and Share. Or if they're going to be Donnie and Marie, we don't know.

mass singer, where they're singing true colors. You know you're true colors shining through

Cindy Lopper was her original song. And he's singing and she's like, "You're a little flat."

“And he's like, "And that's why I love you and don't be afraid. Go at it, show your true colors,”

your beautiful, like a rainbow." It was by far the highlight of a comedic moment of the show, when a lot of it that we're discussing is dark. But they're both attractive. Both can't sing. Let's go. Let's do it. Let's go see them like we did Tom's sand of all, Luan. Every reality star can become a singer because there's enough of you that won't go by

tickets and you can drum enough and think that they're good. And I love it. Okay.

This is a juicy story that I want to tell you about. Rebel Wilson, the actress Rebels Wilson. You may recall the story. She was in a legal battle with the producer of a movie named Amanda Ghost. And it was a very confusing weird story to follow. In which there was another female cast member in which Rebel Wilson said, "I believe that Amanda Ghost was inappropriate with this other female cast member." Then that female cast member was like, "No, that's not true."

And it was just like, "What is this all about?" Well, Hollywood reporter had did it as revealed that there has been leaked audio that reveals that Rebel Wilson's PR team plotted to smear movie producer as a sex trafficker. I have listened to the audio.

“And it is pretty shocking. So the PR agency is called the agency groups. That's what's”

in the agency group. And the recording is that Nathan's the agency group, a top PR shop in the entertainment industry whose clients have included Drake and Johnny Depp. Okay. Has frequently worked with Friedman, Brian Friedman. He represents Justin Bell Doney, which is interesting. Just that, all these people work together. Okay. Deployed websites. This is what they, that's what it's saying. Featuring character assassinating claims about ghost. So what it

says is you hear this guy saying, "We can't just have it be, that Amanda Ghost is, you know, whatever, difficult. We have to make it that her involvement with this billionaire is because she is bringing women to him." So like the article said, creating a narrative that this woman Amanda Ghost who is a producer, I really don't know what the background is, why she and Rubble Wilson really had it rift in the beginning. That's a whole another thing that I have not

overly studied. But this story is available by the Hollywood Reporter that she's a sex trafficker. And he's saying, "If we could get this out, if we could get some of the anonymous websites that cover this, to then say it, I'm guessing he means like, you know, a type that is like crazy days in crazy nights, Deploy, I'm not saying that they did it, but put this out there." Now, crazy days

in crazy nights has been an anonymous website in which they basically say this, housewife who's

newly joined real, you know, the LA franchise of real half of it. Like they won't say it. But anyone with two brain cells puts it together. That's where Diana Jenkins, who was on one season,

“was why people thought that she was a trafficker of some sort. She, I believe, sued in one.”

So this is how this stuff gets started. Also, on the ladies of London, that's a storyline. Were there accusing this woman who has since left the show after the first two episodes of also being a madam, which I said, it used to be fun to be called madam. Now, everybody's just a sex trafficker and it's sad and wrong. So, that's not even why she left the show, but she was accused of it. So, it's crazy to hear this guy say, "We need to create this story and put it

out there that probably also meets any kind of anonymous type of sites where it's not a legit,

relay instructions from Wallace to the former THV president Katie Case, who was not on the call.

“She was told to review the a document detailing accusations the site ultimately alleged against the”

producer. In the recording, obtained by the Hollywood Reporter, the digital fixer, Jed Wallace, instructed a top entertainment publicist, Melissa Nathan, to assert without evidence that the

producer Amanda Ghost is a madam whose work involves procuring young women for wealthy and powerful

men. Some of the quotes was, "We just can't do like, "Oh, she's a bitch. She sucks." Wallace says in the recording, "It's like got to be really, really heavy and connected to something that heavy." I listened to it. I'm going to guess that the defense would be, I was saying it has to be something like she's such an awful person that it she's a sex trafficker. I don't think that's going to help your case. It's pretty creepy because in the report

that I told you about before, there was accusations going around that maybe she was inappropriate this woman with a female cast member. Then that goes with the story that maybe she is a gazelle Maxwell type. It's very interesting and it's a lot to follow. Basically, these major power players from Brian Friedman, who referenced Justin Bell Doney, his case is, you know, that they both acclaimed that there were publicity smear canes made about each other. These smear campaigns

happen. They work. I don't think we ever thought they were coming from a legit PR firm. We thought, "Oh, these are just crazy content creators that are pulling things out of their ass and making up stuff and they shouldn't be taken seriously." But there's clearly a road to making it get out there. It's something that Blake lively claimed happened to her that there was all this negative publicity about her or behavior, whether she's difficult to unset, whether

she's not a nice person, interviews this and that it's not that hard to do in the stay in age. You know, to sneak it to a blogger that writes for Real House that does, Real Housewives content about another cast member that happened with several franchises in the last couple of years. It gets out there, it gets people talking, it affects either a reality show, but in some cases, it affects people's real life and livelihood, blatant lies, but to think that it's getting

from a legit PR firm, which back in the day, PR firms were, we're going to get you on this talk show. We're going to get you on the cover this magazine. We're going to set you up with the report. It was going to write a flattering article about your next movie. It's become really crazy and dark and by using these different entities to get your story out there that didn't exist 30 years, with content creators and with anonymous sites and with Reddit pages, that is the real story

“that I think is very shocking and disturbing. Rebel Wilson said she had no clue this was happening.”

She was not instructing it or asking for it, but it doesn't make her look good at all.

This interesting story, Chelsea Handler says that RFK Jr. in Cheryl Hines left a $6 million

L.A. mansion unlivable. I saw the clip she was doing her show or an interview and she is talking about him. She's not a fan of RFK Jr's politics or his style and she mentions that she bought the house five years ago and she hasn't been able to move in because it's so unlivable. Well, you're thinking how could that happen? Well, I read the article and she said we did it through two different trusts so that it wouldn't be an article on TMZ that she bought the house.

People this way also have their privacy and someone doesn't know that you own it. However, I don't know why she didn't get proper inspections as a former realtor group in real estate.

“Home inspections are very, very important. Now, oftentimes when you watch”

million dollar listing and selling sense that people like all cash, wave all inspections.

Okay, sometimes that happens. You wave the inspections. It's a very risky thing to do because you don't know if the house has mold, whatever. She says it doesn't even have foundation. She's also just being funny but still. The house was built originally in 1937. They did not build it. They are

This is why you have to get your proper things. I actually went house hunting with Chelsea back in the

“day and she wanted to buy a house that I said, I don't think you should buy it for a safety reason.”

It just makes sense when I think about how she is sometimes maybe putting her opinion in someone else, like giving them the power to do it. I have a whole thing. I'll talk more about it on Patreon. Why this happens in LA with stars when they allow their financial people to make the decisions for them? But the point is, find a good home inspector and be there for the inspection and have them walk you around and actually show you what they think is a concern or not. Don't leave it all up to

your staff when you're spending $6 million on a house. I hope that she knocks it down and makes

a beautiful house. Speaking of more legal stuff, Liam McSweeney, this was from last week. Her case against Bravo with Annie Cohen will be heard in public. So they wanted to keep it to be under arbitration which is probably part of their contract. If there's any disputes we go into arbitration means it's behind closed doors, the judge has said no. There's a very interesting case. This is her claiming that Bravo kind of fucked with her sobriety, encouraged

alcoholism and a lot of that she would go back to drinking. Also based on ultimate girls trip,

“there was, I remember there was one little moment where Heather Gaye joked and said, "Oh my god,”

we should get you drunk then or something." Again, you don't, you can't really sue for what another cast member says, but apparently she feels she has evidence to prove that she deserves a big payout. They are not settling. She hasn't really worked since. She hadn't worked before. Real house was Beverly Hills. She had a clothing line in which she started after she got in a situation with the NYPD where she was drunk and unruly allegedly,

this is the story I remember and she was tackled or something in the arrest and was able to sue and get a big payout. So that worked in her favor and once again she believes she has been wronged here. So the fact that this could maybe be an actual trial that we kind of walked through and see it would be obviously extremely juicy. Also below deck alum, a meal cutesy is suing,

below deck and the production company and bravo from your $850 million dollars. He's saying that

based on what was said about him on the show that he was being too horrible that he has been defamed. And therefore, I usually come up with a lawsuit amount of money based on what you lost by no longer being on the show and what you'd lose in future earnings. Well, being that he was a guy who worked on a yacht. I don't know how a future of his would ever add up to $850 million dollars, but some lawyers chosen to take it. They're probably just hoping again that there would be a payout.

But you put yourself on these shows and I know that these contracts are very clear in that people couldn't say stuff about you. You can't sue for defamation. You can't sue your cast members. You're also working on the show. It's just a very reality TV is why, you know, remember, the reality reckoning and that was all going to come crumbling now. Well, it hasn't yet. Somehow, people are still signing up to do it and to watch it and like me talk about it on podcast.

So it's not going away, but you just have to know once you go on the show, you don't have final edit. You don't have a say in what people say or do about you. And I don't know of any case where someone has really won when they've gone on for it. So the interesting to see if one of them does prevail. And that doesn't mean a settlement. That means like you went to court and was awarded something. So that's different. This episode of juicy scuba sponsored by

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“right in the valley in Tarzanna. Next door to me, went to Taf Thai. I love her so much and I'm so excited”

for this. This is my umpteenth request to have Lisa Cudro. Please come on juicy scoop. I would love to interview you. This is hands down my favorite show. I can't believe it's coming back yet again. And it's airing on HBO max on March 22nd and I'm just so excited. Nothing brings me more joy than this show. Kylie is on top is the title of the Vanity Fair cover and it's Kylie and she looks amazing, you know, she's doing the power move that started about eight years ago where women just like spread

their legs like this, like a big, a big crotch spread which is the opposite of crossing. Like just like very much and she's wearing like a cute question out that it's a great cover. They've

lightened her brows which is always like a weird unique look but it looks going her and she's

smoking and I just want to say somebody please find the episode where I said, smoking is going to come back in. That's going to be the cool thing to do. That's going to be the sign of luxury. Like yeah, I can afford a $10 pack of cigarettes and I don't give a fuck that it's going to hurt my health and give my teeth yellow and age my face because I can afford plastic surgery after and I don't I'm not going to vape like some loser on the corner. I'm going to actually smoke a cigarette and

look like a fucking badass that lived a life of previous decades that we all year and four. So I told you it was going to happen. It's fucking going to happen. No, I don't endorse it. No, I don't like it but this was a direct move grab a cigarette. Everyone lost their minds when to read smoked. It's something about like I don't it's the ultimate. I don't give a fuck. We know that it's caused lung cancer and horrible disease and empathy. We used to have to watch a commercial where the lady

had a hole in her neck and she was like, I want to tell you kids that to smoke. Doesn't matter. We forget everything. Everything including that smoking kills. Even though it's sexy and it keeps you skinny. All right, you guys. I'm very excited to have you guys listen to this great interview. We get into so many juicy things. Let's just get right into it.

“But remember to go to Patreon where that's where the real juicy shit happens and that is at”

Heather McDonald.net and lovely upper annual episode. This Friday has always commercial free.

You can listen to all the back episodes if you have yet to have joined. Don't miss out. Change your life and everyone loves it. So here we go. Okay, now I'm very excited to have a return guest in author a reporter, a mom. She's been on juicy scoop before for Tessa Latifi, who has a new book coming out that you can pre-order right now. Call like, follow and subscribe and what a perfect person we talking about since we're coming off the topic of Taylor Frankie Paul and her

controversy right now with Secretwise Mormon Wise and the Bachelorette and the accusations of domestic violence and child abuse. So with all that being said, welcome back.

what happened in the last 48 hours?

“Yeah, I mean, it was really harrowing. I think obviously this is not the first time that Taylor”

Frankie Paul has been accused of domestic violence, but I think, you know, you can look at one time and think maybe it was a one-off, maybe it was like a strange thing that happened and they obviously

seemed to be in a pretty toxic relationship, but for something to come up a second time is really

difficult and especially when it seems like the children were involved. I mean, the first time in the police report, you can read that she threw a chair at Dakota, her boyfriend, and it hit her daughter. And this time, it seems that it's alleged that their son, their young son, ever, who's a toddler, was in the room while they were having this experience. So that's that's really troubling. Also, someone else cut a show to clip from the actual show of Secretwise

of Bornwife in which Demi, who's no longer really part of the show. She refused to do interviews this season. She's having it out with Taylor among the other girls in season four, and she says, "When are you gonna stop and, you know, yeah, why don't I ask Dakota, why don't you stop with him?"

“And I think now that in light of things, it sounds like, you know, then can be physically abused.”

There's an incredible documentary out about this man. I believe he was an England that was like

physically abused by his wife for years. And he like recorded it and it's, you know, because people don't think it can happen. I'm not saying that is her. And it's just very interesting and everyone can chime in because we've all watched her for years on social media where many people fell love with her and on the show for these last few years. And the comments on a video I did, where I just kind of asked what should we do? Should they still film? Should they still air the

Bachelor at? And I didn't even post a question on that video, but I think the biggest question is, if this was a man, you know, would we be featuring him as the Bachelor? And in the comments of my

video, someone said, he knew how to set her off. And I'm like, whoa, would you ever in 2026 tell a female,

who is a victim of a domestic violence situation? You knew how to push his buttons. You knew to bring up the fact that he hadn't a job in six months and therefore you deserve to be hit, like, what do you mean press someone's buttons? No one, no matter what someone says to you, you shouldn't put your hands on them, especially in 2026, whether you're, you know, a six-five man or a five-two-hundred-pound girl. Like, it's a more and more is coming out. And I guess this

fight happened now, like February 24th or something. And so again, the fans of Taylor are saying, well, he's choosing to go forward with this account or whatever, now and share his story because he's so jealous that she's coming out with a Bachelor. And I'm like, and then the other part is, we know that now that she picked some guy named Doug, and that clearly she didn't last with Doug, because she went back with Dakota and then probably thought he was cheating or something. I mean,

pretty ironic that you're mad at someone for cheating when you went and dated 30 minutes prior to that. But it's all ugly and then it all comes to the kids and, you know, in this particular show, everybody has a fresh baby for us to uglad and they're all adorable. Yeah, of course. I mean, they're babies, they're perfect babies and they're all attractive people and some of the couples have great partners who are the dads who are like very supportive like Whitney's husband.

But I mean, what do you think about that? That's truly the Truman show and that these kids from the moment they're born. I mean, it happened with Mason on the Kardashians and he's completely doesn't want to be in the camera as much anymore. From the moment you're born, you're on TV.

“Or you know, I think about the kids from teen mom. You know, I'm 32 and I grew up with teen”

mom and 16 pregnant and those kids were, their births were literally taped and you know, Mason's birth on keeping up with the Kardashians was literally taped and so these kids are just in the spotlight from a very beginning. And I do think it's fascinating, especially on Mormon wives where they're having these really adult conversations around older kids who can understand it. I mean, if it's a baby, obviously a baby doesn't get it. Like you can talk about

whatever in front of a newborn baby. But there's this scene where Taylor and her mom are talking

it's just it's just strange. And for the camera to be there and to be capturing every moment

“of your mother's toxic relationships, I can't imagine how that must feel.”

I also feel in this day and age, it's such a hamster wheel because and you talk about this in your book because one of the people that you interviewed that's making $500,000 a year doing what she's doing is like she's like, if I could not be on the internet, I wouldn't be. But it is how I make $500,000 a year. She was a Christian girl who, you know, got married young, had a baby 18 and just had a neck for putting out content that was, you know, she knew how to edit it and people liked it and

all this. Of course, she has her haters too. But like, what is she going to do now? She's going to,

you know, throw it away and go to nursing school, which is incredibly difficult and it's not going

to be for $500,000 a year. So I get. And now all the guys, they don't have their jobs anymore because they had to step in as the dads. So they were trying to make this stupid dad talk work. Nobody wants dad talk. Don't try to make dad talk. And I literally can I tell you that I fast forward through the dad talk scenes. I don't care. Also, they're like making fun of the women and they feel resentful towards them. They're so resent riding their coat tails. And it's just like gross.

I'm just like the only one who I think is a truly supportive husband is Connor as Whitney's husband. When she's crying about like, I feel like I'm not around for the kids ball blonde. He tells her, I've got you. Like, I've got them. Like, don't worry. Like, this is a big moment in your career. And when you look at what Jen's relationship where her husband is telling her, like, why aren't you home more? Why aren't you doing this? And it's like, but you're, but you don't have a job.

She's the breadwinner. So what do you want her to do? When I saw that with a Jen and Zach, I felt the immediate anxiety of codependency that you would feel having a great moment and looking over and seeing that your man is like annoyed, that you're getting the attention and he is not.

“And how now you have to manage that along the top of the phone being a delight, you know, these”

girls, which is just fascinating when I saw Jen have the stylist come, you know, with all the clothes lined up, you know, which she needs. And it's like, I've done that. I've had a press tour and an all that kind of stuff. I didn't have a stylist and did my own thing. But it is very overwhelming. And she's, for a normal person in Hollywood, this would have been many years to get to a level of a stylist comes over to make sure that you have something for the Emmys and the this and then that.

I mean, that's 15, 20 years. Like, from the time that you were taking at classes to then you got the five and under, I think that you got the sitcoms to now you're, you know, you did the

growlings. Now you're Lisa control your 30 years old, you're finally on friends. Like, that's

that's the trajectory that my generation knew. This is, you know, you have a hotspot on TikTok because you admit to being a swinger and literally three and a half years later, you're the star of the Emmys and the Oscars. Yeah. Right. Which can all be taken from you. Like with, you know, Frankie Taylor Paul. And I mean, right, Tyler and Victor Taylor, Frankie Paul. And as we, and it's a great name, by the way. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But she's on the today show,

you know, they're clearly want us to watch this. They are not, there's as of now, there's no

“talk of not airing it. I think it's incredible that when you look at people that have had”

TV shows for years, like some of the Vanderpump stars and things like that, that they found a tweet that they wrote when they were 15. And it was instant firing, you're losing a tour, dotted it up. This is over with. You said a dumb thing on an Instagram. You, you, uh, saying a song that was caught on video that had the end word in it and you said it, you're done, like losing guilt. And this, I'm just kind of like, it is shocking. And it, I don't know if it's a state of

how bad Hollywood is as far as financial and morality and everything else. But listen, and my curious to watch it. Yeah. I mean, I haven't watched the Bachelor at, in a few seasons. And I actually was on a years ago. And, uh, so I was going to watch it, at least skim through her to look for the highlights. With this, I, even though we know she ends up with the code and what's goes on, I think people would watch it because they're like, who is this chick? Yeah. So I can see, I just can't

make us forget the way they do? People forget people forget, but I also think that, like,

there are sponsors pulling out, like, cinnamon pulled out of the Bachelor at as a sponsor. Oh, I didn't realize cinnamon pulled out of the show. I just thought she had a deal with cinnamon.

“No, no, it was like from the show. Yeah. So I think if it affects their bottom line,”

they might have to think about it a little bit differently. Because I think this is all a financial decision, right? Like they're deciding, is the money we sink into the show worth, you know, going forward or worth scrapping it, but if they're going to lose future advertisers, like, maybe it's not worth. I mean, the thing is is that, you know, what are you going to put in an old season of some ABC sitcom? Like, this is still traditional TV. It has a time on an actual night.

So it's like, if something is to happen with my show, I'm like, okay, let me scramble and, you know, let me do something else and it's me. But you're not, if you, they don't air it. They're essentially losing whatever 20 hours or how many episodes they are. Totally. That's set in the schedule of

“traditional TV. And I think that's why they're not, I automatically saying, hey, we're not going”

to air this. You know, and it's one thing for the production on the other shows secret life to stop because they're just filming it. So they can tell everybody you're going to take a two week break. They probably won't pay out either, but, you know, staff. Yeah, and then, so what do you think should happen as someone who has really studied this with your book, which is all about the whole world of family vlogging and mommy influencers and also Mormons being such great influencers and

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show. What I wanted to tell you, but I don't want to give you a lot of students. The master-by-tark lab-tabücher soft-handed internet. It's a master-sacre. You can say that you can get the correct answer. You're a master-by-tarker, right? But you don't believe it. Exactly. The master-by-word is a master-by-word. It's a master-by-word. It's a master-by-word. And when you then work, you'll see the truth. The truth? The truth? The truth? The truth? The truth?

“The truth is the truth. Now it's a waste of time. I think everyone honestly has to make their”

decision about whether they're comfortable watching this on their own. And I think I was looking at the bachelor's subreddit last night. And there were just thousands of comments of people being

because I think part of Taylor Frankie Paul's a lore is that she's like this messy kind of girl and

like she's always kind of making mistakes. And she's like owning up to it or whatever. But then this is

different. You know, like alleged domestic violence and alleged child abuse. Like that's not messy. Like that's just terrible. You know? So I don't think people want to see it. And it's like interesting because I wanted to watch her season. I was really interested in it. Also I haven't

“watched the bachelor at years because I think it's just like a waning show. But once I saw that like”

she ends up back with Dakota and she ends up in this terrible situation. It's like, why do I want to watch her get there? Like it just takes the wind out of the sails of the whole thing. Because the promise of the bachelor at is you're like watching some people fall in love. But if you know that she's going to go back to her ex-boyfriend, then it's like, well, what's the point of watching? And also, you know, we've had parents on the show before on the bachelor at and the bachelor,

where a guy has a kid or whatever. And part of it is, oh, you know, by the seventh episode, the little girl could come on the Disney trip with them or whatever. But other than that, they're not seeing their kids. Now there are people that don't see their kids for months because they're on a movie set or they're fighting a war or it's the dad. So I don't want to like

“parent shame her and I don't know that in her case, maybe they had an Airbnb down the street with”

grandma and the three kids the whole time and she could visit them all the time. So we don't know what that situation is. But at this point, as she's doing the precedent, everything and she's like,

my kids come first. I'm like, okay, if they come, if you're saying they come first because

this is how I make my money. Now, is to film and be on the bachelor, I think. But when you just think about like, you have two, you know, two baby daddies, three kids. You know, I was swinging scandal. You have, you already were arrested before. You have this volatile relationship with this guy. I mean, if it wasn't about money and a career, you could not think of a worse opportunity for her. Anything could have been better, mass singer dancing with the stars,

like the two other girls did. Anything could have been better than, and I feel like when she was offered it, if someone was around her said it would go, hold out for dancing with the stars. Maybe go on, whatever, something else if you need it, but you probably don't. Like, it just

“was like the worst thing that you could do. Like, really, you need to go now date 30 more guys.”

I'm sorry, Pilaria, to be mad that I said it, but like, I'm sure most girls that are watching

this, especially ones that have young kids are like, we all, I got you, we all deserve to find love, but also, I know a lot of single moms that take off significant time between relationships and don't. And then when you bring this man home, that they don't know at all, and you're like, this is my new fiance. Like, did you watch love his buying this season? Just parts of it, but you go ahead and talk about it. Yeah, there was a single mom, there was a single mom named

Amber on the show and I loved her as a character. I loved her as a person, but like, it was so troubling to me, like, when they showed up to the wedding and her daughter, who I think was around like eight, had just met the, like, future husband, like, the day before, and then the daughter, like, looked really uncomfortable with, like, the filming and was kind of like, which, like, does really overwhelming, but like, I was watching that and I was like, Amber, girl, you deserve

love, et cetera, et cetera, but like, this is not a good choice. Like, I, maybe a hot take and, like, people won't like it, but I don't think that single parent should be on dating shows, because then what you come home and you introduce this guy and you're like, you don't know him, but he's your new stepdad, you know? And then this couple divorced, they got married on the show and then they divorced a few months later. And in the reunion, she's crying about how her daughter

took the divorce. And it's like, I really feel for them, but I'm also like, this was almost like bound to happen. Like, how I don't understand, like, bringing in a random guy into your daughter's life. I mean, how can an eight-year-old understand their age? This is your new daddy. Oh, good. Now I have a dad and now he's gone. Is he gone? Because of me? Right. Now my mom is crying. Did I do anything wrong? Was he not cut out to be a dad? I mean, those must be the thoughts.

And talk to anybody who's an adult now that had multiple step parents. And it's a different childhood than someone that didn't. It's different than someone who had a solid single parent. It's different than someone who had gay parents. It's different than someone who had a traditional family to know per se. They go through stuff that if you did not go through that as a kid,

say that single parents don't deserve love, obviously they do. But like, I think part of being a parent is putting your child first and saying it's not the time right now or this is not the right way to do it to just show up that home with this new fiance. Yes, I totally agree. Let's get into some of your book because it's really fascinating. I know you've worked on it for a long time. You've done so many interviews. And one of the things that I thought was the juiciest

is that you found from numerous parent influencers, mom influencers, said the videos that always

did the best, meaning they got the most views. You immediately were being shared, watched through the entirety was when it featured their children being sick, sick injured or sad. Yeah. Wow. I know. I know. I mean, for me, I've had that instinct for a few years that this was true, but for them to

“know it consciously and to admit it to me and to tell me about it, I think it really changed my”

understanding of what's going through their mind when they record it. Yeah. And I always remember that one video with a girl got caught. She was filming with her son and it was that they dog had died. The dog had like parvo. I don't have dogs, so I don't know. But it's like a disease, like fatal

disease that young puppies get. And she was telling the son that like the dog might die. And she's

he's crying on her shoulder, like legitimately crying. I think he was like around eight years old. And then she's saying, she accidentally uploaded this to YouTube instead of editing it. And she's saying, "No, no, turn your face so they can see your tears and cry this way." And he's like, "Mom, my am crying." Like, you don't have to tell me to cry. I am crying. And she's just like

“coaching him on which way to turn his face to that they see the tears. And it's just like,”

I don't know. There are a lot of things that I can like empathize with. Like as a parent, I wouldn't make those choices, but I can understand being in a different position in my life and choosing those things. But to coach your kid when they're already devastated and crying and to to tape it and to post it. I mean, I don't understand. Like can you understand that? What are your thoughts on it? I just think that with this younger generation who are parents,

they were raised themselves being into social media. So they start doing it and they like the views even if they're not making money from it. They like that it's getting attention. And it just becomes natural. Just like if you were to tell your kid 30 years ago, they're 12, but they're still going to work at the ice cream shop that the family owns. Sure. Like you still have to show up on Saturday and stalk the cones or whatever it is. And technically, yeah, he's 12. He probably should

be doing that. When my parents were realtors, I had to drop off these note pads at every house. And I had to deliver pumpkins. And we had to stuff envelopes. And I had to try to get them listings. And so yeah, I do get it. But it's about the weird exposure and the emotionalness of it all. And the illness, too, that with the other crazy story was that family and you talked about this as well, that put one of their daughters on the thumbnail. And I know how thumbnails work because we do

YouTube for my show as well. And if you don't want to be dishonest about what the thing is, you know, like I wouldn't put, you know, whatever, something that's not the gas, you know, like, like, let's say for this, I put, I'm talking to, I got an exclusive with Taylor Frankie Paul. Well, I didn't get an exclusive. If we talked about it, you know, but this one was even worse.

“They did the little girl and it said, whatever name was posing or what was your name?”

Yeah, posing. Yeah, posing has cancer story or something. Yeah, she has cancer documentary. Yeah. And so people are like, oh my god, now they're invested. They've watched this little girl. They think this family's cute. And she didn't have cancer. And then the video switches to some other little girl that has cancer and at the end, you could do a go-fun me. And I think what happened to that logging family because I know there was a lot of backlash over that.

There was a ton of backlash. I mean, people were like, you basically click baited us into thinking

that your daughter has cancer. Like, what are you thinking? And they had a lot of like, click baity titles in the past, but nothing so explicit and to click bait with like a child's potential cancer diagnosis is just like, kind of beyond the pale. So there was a ton of backlash.

one of the biggest family logging families out there. So I think when it comes to backlash, the bigger you are, the more you're able to withstand it. You know, like it kind of bounces off you, whereas that woman who posted the video of her son crying, where she's encouraging him to cry, she only had 500,000 YouTube subscribers. So she wasn't able to bounce back, but the LeBrant family

who did the she has cancer, they have, I don't know, over eight million. I want to say YouTube

subscribers, so they're able to bounce back. You know, I remember, but before I forget, I want to make sure that before I talk, go off at this tangent that's when I had someone's going through, is I also want to talk about how a person described in your book, why family vlogging is popular and that was, to just hold that thought real quick, but I do want to say, it reminded me of, remember the woman who got who claimed that she was being followed around

by what she believed were kidnappers at the Michaels in Northern California, Petaluma. And I remember where I was when the video popped up and what she said, and I remember,

I don't mean to pat myself on the back, but I literally said to the person I was that was working

“for the time. I think this is fake. I think this girl is trying to get views. It was in her car.”

She acted like she was panicked. We later found out she filmed that after she came home, thought about it, went into the car and filmed it. Later on, it became a case, this poor family, they were grandparents, they weren't doing anything wrong. The whole thing was made up, but there was a panic time of where, you know, and people, our kids are getting stolen and traffic, but it was a a time where, oh my god, you know, so it got a lot of views, beware, all this other stuff,

really damaged that couple's life and they were completely innocent. And again, like the same thing of, I want my kid to be feeling sad or hurt, it's a lot of views. It's why adults, we've joked about they're about to cry and they're like let me film myself crying because they, they was good views because you're scrolling and you see someone you follow or even someone crying and you're like, my god, what do they cry about? So now you're, and it's like, there's no other time where,

“you know, that's what people would do in their privacy. And now it's like, oh my god,”

that this will get you views, your vulnerability to show that you're crying, you know, it's, it's crazy. And so now, I wanted to mention that, the going in the car, because you know, I made a funny video the other day of how like you have to eat or do contouring your nose or go in

the car or walk or act or even act like you're driving. That always works well. Like something

about it works better than you just talking to the camera. Like last night when I did the thing about my take on Taylor and asking people what they think, I'm like, I'm just going to talk to the camera. I know it's not going to be as many views if I was like, and you know what? I'll tell you something out. You know, but why do you think that is? I don't know, I'm always like this block makes me nervous. Why are you driving? But I think it's something, I think it's because they

worked out the out. They know that the algorithm, whatever works better, if you're doing make up eating, even walking in your neighborhood, something about it. And so it's like just like your influencers that you've followed said, I realized. So I think once you realize it, you're like, well, why would I go back to anything else? So the kid who's crying is sad, nobody invited him to the birthday party. I mean, that's another thing. When people do that, when they're like in the

car, like they just got dropped the kid off the crew. And I was like, let me tell you something, all these bombs are so mean, they don't invite me to anything. And my kid wasn't invited to the birthday party. I'm like, what do you think those moms are going to do now? Like, is this going to help? They're all going to share it with each other. And they're going to be like, we don't want to

“fuck with you. Essentially, that's what happened with the stars with the Hillary Duff thing.”

Where Hillary Duff said, oh, wrote the thing about toxic moms. And everybody's like, we're certainly not going to invite you now. Like, like, you don't need to, like, we don't know who you are. Yeah, we know you're at our school. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think that's also really sad about when people say like, my kid wasn't invited to anyone's house or they have no friends. Like, why would you do? And then, and then, but then I think that's a little or two because then people are like,

that's it. Where's the go-fun me? I'm going to send your kid to Disneyland. It's so bleak. It's so bleak. And I think it's like taking those things that you're worried about for your kid. Like, we all have

to things or whatever. But then taking it online, like, that's not going to make it better. Like, especially when the kids are older. Like, those kids, their peers can find it online. And then they're

“going to be like, ha ha Jimmy, your mom's talking about how you don't have friends. You know what I mean?”

Like, it's not going to help. No, it's not. And the other thing in your book that I thought was interesting that I talked about before is why do people like are attracted to following these families? Because I don't follow any family vloggers. It doesn't interest me. My kids are older. It doesn't interest me. I don't want to see it. But what your expert said was, it's like when you would go to someone's house for the first time for a sleepover, which now no one has sleepovers either.

No, no one's going to each other's house because even if you played video games, it used to be kids 15 years ago had to sit next to each other to play video games. Well, now they don't. So they really don't have to go to anyone's houses. The number one's like, don't go to another person's house because they'll bless you. But when you go to someone else's house, and you'd see, like, did, oh, they, I love that they do this. Or, oh my god, you guys are just going to,

“like, I remember that I went to the ladies house and she, like, seven kids, and they had a nice house.”

And she came down and was like, can you guys be quiet? And she was always in, like, her pajamas.

And I was like, oh, it's interesting. Like, that's interesting. You know, like, we had fun and they're like, okay, you know, like, and that's, but also in our generation people went to other people's houses. So I thought that was really kind of crazy. I think the way that we know this house. Yeah, the way that we think about other families is it's just fascinating, right? It's the same reason that like keeping up with the Kardashians or teen mom or, you know, John and Kate plus eight or the

dugers, like, all of those things, like, it's so fascinating to see how other families live their lives. Like, especially when there's some kind of hook, when there's, like, a ton of kids or when they're religious or when they home school or that kind of thing, it's like, wait, people live like this? And why, when you talk about religious, you, it said you did a whole chapter of your book

“of how the Mormons have really excelled in influencing and can you explain what you found?”

So there of the U.S. population only 2% identify as Mormon or from the Church of Latter-day Saints. But if you compare that to the amount of influencers that are Mormon, it's like astronomical. Like, I would say most of the most famous family vloggers and mom influencers are Mormon or Mormon adjacent, but it's not surprising when you look at the religion and there are a few different reasons for that. But one is that they are encouraged to have kids really young and have a lot of

kids. We know that does really well for the algorithm, the algorithm loves babies. We also know that the Mormon Church says that being beautiful is godly. And so presenting yourself in a beautiful manner is a way to be closer to God. And not only that, but they have this thing called the prosperity doctrine where basically the idea is that the more godly you are, the more likely you are to prosper financially. And so you have this religion where young women are told to be

beautiful to have kids really young and that making money is the sign of godliness. And it's like,

well, of course, they're perfect influencers. And they're always, they're journaling is a really

big thing in the Mormon Church. And so young women especially are taught to journal from a very young age and keep very detailed records. And so it's like, what is influencing if not journaling out, you know, out loud? And it's like, it's also Mormonism is a very patriarchal religion. And so they're not meant to work outside the house, but this is kind of a loophole of like, you're working inside the house, but you're also working outside the house. Right. The same reason

MLM's strive to do, you do so well. Yeah. Yeah. I do think it's interesting in watching the secularism or in wise because they all have these these hair extensions. Yeah. And so long. And I'm like, wait a minute, are you telling me not one girl could like naturally grow or hair that long? Like it's it's this excessive amount. Like I'm guessing you guys without the extensions could still have beautiful hair. Yeah. And I'm not against extensions. I just think

it's interesting that every single one feels the need to have that and lip filler and be really thin. You know, and so I did not know about the beauty being a part of godliness. And I think that is so interesting because it's like in Catholicism, it's like vanity is said. Yeah. It's not good. Yeah.

So it's like you get too much. It's almost like, oh my god, you know, my mom would always be like,

that woman's a saint and she'd look like shit. You know, she'd look seven kids. She'd be like, you know, cleaning out the the best of all and like doing all the things with the church and like, yeah. No, that woman was not put together. You know, it was it's just so I find that fascinating.

when the kid is ought to big YouTube and stuff and there are of elementary age or middle school? Does that make them more popular in the club in the school? Yeah. It's really complicated because some of the kids that I talk to told me people are really interested in my YouTube fame. But once they realize that I won't put them on my channel, then they kind of turn away from it and then I'm a bit of a pariah because the thing is like, kids are the same as us like they want that

cloud. And if it's a family channel and you're not going to bring friends on it, then it's like not as

“interesting. But I think it's also difficult because I talked to a few years ago a young woman who”

her mom and this is not uncommon. People are like always mind-bone, but her mom made a sponsored

post out of her first menstrual cycle. And then she had to go to middle school and people were like, ah, we know you got your period. And that's like terrible. Like, what? That is crazy. I remember that story. Like, that is so crazy. And I also think like, you know, my my sister was successful child actor doing commercials, just commercials. So she never left the school, but she'd be taken out for one day or whatever. And that's back when you know, yeah, there was only whatever,

five channels and people would see her commercial, bold three and a couple of things. And it was a big talk at the school and she was like kind of being bullied. And um, but in that case, she couldn't put them on TV. Yeah. So like, I get why, well, and I wonder if like other mothers want to be friends with that mother too. Like, well, maybe I should be doing this as well. I know from real housewives that I'm friendly with and have interviewed, they get to a place where they don't

know if a new female friend is truly interested in being their friend or they're vying to get on the show somehow. Totally. And not just to attend the party with cameras like get on the show. And then they, you know, and sometimes they definitely don't want that. So they don't make like any other friends for years. Or they do want it. And then the friend turns on them. And then like,

“well, I'm never doing that again. You know, right? Right. Yeah. I think it's really difficult as a”

kid in general to make friends. Let alone being like, oh, I'm this huge famous youtuber and do people want to be my friend because they want to like cloud chase off of me or because they think I can make them famous or do they generally genuinely want to be my friend. Yeah. Um, now you said also in the book, which I thought was really interesting is, you know, most people and like I was constantly talking about, you know, well, with with with the coogan lawn, there's laws where you're

supposed to definitely give, um, pay, put your kids money when they're on a TV show into an account. I've also said it's a very hard thing to keep track of. A check comes in for $800. The family easily can cash it and keep for for themselves. Now the kid is 30. They're really going to track back 15 years. Where's my 800 bucks. So it is a law, but, you know, I know there's a couple of

“states now that are trying to do that for the money that an influencer makes for their kid if they're”

all doing a ad together. So we've talked about that, but what you said was it's really about them being bribed with something else to do the act that they need to get the scene done. Yeah. So I talk to a few different family influencers for this chapter who told me that their worry is not that kids are not getting paid, but it's that they're getting paid in the form of bribes. And so these laws really don't touch that because if you're if you're still paying your child, like you're

technically abiding by the law, but if it's bribery where like one of the family bloggers in my book

told me, I used to give my kids a thousand dollars each for a 30 second video because, you know,

if you're making tons of thousands of dollars off the video or more, then it's like what's a thousand dollars, you know, if you talk like it's not a big deal, but it's like that I thought was really interesting because advocates really talk about we need to make sure these kids are paid, but what this family blogger told me is they are getting paid, but it's bribery. And so then where does that leave us? Well, they don't have free will. And it's like there were laws, you know,

made in the early 1900 or whatever was in the industrial revolution time where they said kids couldn't work in the factories, you know, that's when child labor laws, but entertainment

has always been the one place that kids can work because we allow actors and on sets and all these

other things and now and now this. So my point is they don't have the same right to say, no, I don't want to work today and I'm a child and you can't make me mom. I don't want to dance around and do the video. It's also really complicated because I think it's difficult as a child to go against

love the work that you do and you realize that you're making a lot of money and you live in a

beautiful house and they have a beautiful car. And like one of the young women that I talk to Claire, she told me that she told her dad once I don't want to do YouTube anymore and he said, okay, that's fine, but we're going to have to move out of our house. Mom and I are going to have to go back to work and there's going to be no money left over for nice things. And so it's like, are you really listening to your kid when they're telling you that? Are you guilty, Mom?

“That's what I'm saying. It's a truly a hamster wheel because now, well, you know, what are we going”

to do? Like we're, we're in, so it's like, I mean, it's, it's just such a slippery slope. I mean, what, what, how has people's views benefited of the few moms that have said, I'm going to honor this situation. I'm going to give my child some privacy. I'm not going to

feature them getting their first period or when they have the flu or even their birthday party.

Like, what happens to that person? Do they still make money? So it depends. If they're a huge creator, they oftentimes can withstand that and kind of like change their content, but they're not making as much money because I talk in the book about these, these creators who don't show their kids, they'll apply for brand deals and the brand deals will be like, okay, but you have to put your kids in diapers and show, you know, this new diaper,

whatever, and the creators like, I'm not doing that. And then, you know, the brand passes because they want the child to be in it because we know that content with children does better. And so sometimes they can continue their career, but they're definitely not making as much money as they would, maybe even by half as as they would if they still show their kid. Right. And then I wonder if there's a moment where that woman turns around,

we thought mommy dearest was bad, you know, that movie, but, you know, at least the kid didn't judging, there was a scene of mommy dearest that's like we were supposed to feel served for the girl because they were taking one professional photo as a family. Yeah. I mean, she was being mean to her and she was physically abusing her and everything, but when you compare it to what a modern day mommy dearest movie could be, which I'm sure someone's working on it, you know,

about an inflows, because like, even if someone did try to do the right thing and then the kid is being a bratty kid, like we all have kids that are ungrateful and they don't get it because they're a little and you're like, you little shit, I could have been making twice as a amount, but no, I tried to respect your privacy and now you are not even doing well in school. So you're not going to get a regular job anyway, because you're a dumbass, like you don't know, like what someone

“could say to their kid. I'm not so true, and I think about that, like how difficult it would be”

to get a child to do what you want them to do. I mean, like my daughter's a toddler, but you see this content of other toddlers on Instagram and they're perfectly posed in their hairs perfect and you know, they're matching outfit and like this morning my daughter went to the park and a pajama shirt because she didn't want to change and I was just like, okay, whatever, it doesn't really match, like it's a shirt, it doesn't really matter, but like if I were a mom and fluencer,

how would I convince her, you know, or how would I make her do what I need it hard to do? But at that age, you know, that's them asserting themselves and if you constantly deny them,

you know, wearing cowboy boots to school or, you know, my son's it was always the biggest thing

is we don't need a jacket, we don't need a jacket, we don't need a jacket and I'd be like, all right, and then I would just pack the jackets and then when they're shivering, I'd be like, guess what, I actually have a jacket for you. Okay, thank you. But I get it, it's because, you know, they're growing up and they're like, you don't know everything mom, it's sunny now and I'm like, I know what's sunny now, but we're going to be out for five hours. Yeah, I guess what, it's going to

always just like, and I will be like, I've lived on this life on this earth a little longer than you, yeah, but they don't start using that. I mean, no, they won't. I mean, this morning, I was just like, you cannot go to the park in a pajama shirt and then I was like, who really cares? But I do think about like, if I had to put her in a perfect outfit and get her hair done and do whatever and

“have her pose perfectly, like, what would that look like? You know, how could I get a toddler to do that?”

I mean, it's just like the toddlers and here is days, those shows, and they had to put them all in the, and the girl just goes, I just want to swim in like the days in pool. And they're like, well, you can't because we, you have hair extensions and a flipper in your mouth and, you know, we don't want you getting your makeup removed, but I have a four hour break, well, too bad, because, you know, we're fascinated by that show, you know, 15 years ago. Tell us a little

bit about your interview that you did for Rolling Stone with Piper Rock L and her history and what she's doing now and what's so interesting about it. So I talked to Piper Rock L who is one of the main

her and I'm sure that most of your viewers have watched the Netflix documentary, Bad Influenced

“Dark Side of Kid Influencing, that really showed the dark side of Piper's upbringing allegedly and”

she says that that it wasn't true, that it wasn't an honest reflection of what she experienced, but the point is with this and with the court case against her mother who was alleged to have abused other kids, other YouTube kids that Piper worked with. Piper was kind of blacklisted in the industry, like she no one wanted to work with her and no one was giving her brand deals or sponsorships. And so when she turned after after the dock or before the dock. So after, so before the dock,

okay. And then even more after the dock, but basically when the lawsuit came out, which was a few years before the other. Against her mother, from the other kids that were like doing YouTube videos for free and being possibly manipulated or sexually avoided kind of, yeah. Right. And so people kind of blamed, I don't know, Piper was kind of caught up in her mom's downfall. People didn't want to work with her and as she approached 18, there were

lots of rumors about like, well, she gonna join only fans because she did post a lot of salacious content, even like on Instagram and TikTok. And then a few months after she turned 18,

she joined only fans and she says that she made $2.9 million in the first few days.

Is it continuing to roll in like that? You know, I'm not sure. It seems very popular, like she is definitely up there on on the only fans ranking, but I'm not sure exactly how right. And then I like, I saw a clip of a TMZ podcast interview that she did with this other girl that she's, you know, collaborating with or whatever. And they show a clip of her being like, and then I was dying and it's one girl pouring like a jug of milk like down her, her throat,

but it goes on her boobs. And the comments were like, we don't need to see this. Like we don't need, it's fine, make your money, but like, and I get it because it's a cycle and TMZ will get more views off that clip or that podcast. Then, you know, Anna, I also see like, would you turn down 2.9 million dollars? Like, and maybe just like the name of your own. Right, back in the day,

you know, there were strippers. And it was always like, well, I'm gonna strip to put myself through

school. And once I get to a certain age, then I can quit stripping or whatever. And this is, you know, or the, the dark side of porn. And, you know, those people went to become realtors. And then the market dropped, they go back to porn. Like, I mean, it's, it's, at least they're not having to, at least they have their own say and what they're doing. You know, at least they're not going to some gross house of the valley. And, you know, making a one-time payment and having no say and their

images can be shared forever. So, like, I do think the model is a million times better, totally. But it also is like, oh, well, like, as you never will experience, whatever, whether people experience,

“but, I mean, I know that she is happy. She's happy. She's happy. I think it's just difficult for me to,”

like, talk to her and talk about this because she, she is 18, but she's so young. I mean, the things that I thought I knew at 18 that I don't believe in now at 32 are just so drastically different. And so I think it's difficult when you're making these decisions that are kind of permanent.

Like, you can get off only fans, but you can never not be, not have been on only fans. You know what I mean?

Like, that content will always be out there. Yeah, and I just kind of wonder, like, you know, like anything, like, what, what are your, you know, romantic relationships? Like, yeah, I can imagine. You know, it's one thing to join when you're, whatever, 28 and another to join when you're 18, you know? Yeah, I find that very interesting. Also, last thing was, I thought the article, the interview, sorry, the chapter in your book about

when fans become, I don't know how you, what was the title of that chapter? Like, um,

“what, I don't, I don't remember. Okay. Well, like, when fans become, um, haters,”

when other becomes hate. Yeah, social relationships and the rise of smart communities. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I do think that's so interesting because I never knew that existed until I found mine. I was going to say, have you, I haven't looked at yours. How is it big? Is it, what is it like? I mean, just like your people, I don't want to give it a lot. And what is interesting, what I thought was really interesting. And it's really helpful. Everyone should read that chapter

that might have one of those. Yeah. Because I have tried to tell people that are suffering from it.

of what we do. Yeah. And they discover their thing. And I see them spiraling. I see them giving an attention. I see them defending themselves, making videos about it because it's like in your head, it's like the whole world is saying this. Yeah. And so I think it's a very, like, interesting helpful chapter of how some of the people that you interviewed talked about how hurtful

“and everything it could be, which I agree. But then also how, um, the only way, which is what I've”

said, the only way to continue to do what you're doing when this exists is, which I've said,

is to treat it like if you were a drug addict. Yeah. And that's heroin. And you can never touch it again.

Right. And it is tempting sometimes when you have your phone and you're like, because someone said, like, what if your whole life, you know, before this time, you'd call to school and you'd find out two of your best friends were talking about you and you're like, sure, what do you mean? What did they say? So it's like you can go and see that these people that are still your fans because they're spending the time and they're still in train. They are,

they are. They are. They are. They're anti fans, but they're fans. Yeah. And, you know, um, and there's been people that have really gone off the deep end. And I remember there was this one

influencer that someone sent me a thing about because they're like, because I've talked about this

for and I felt so badly for her. She was doing really well. She was like a known for like being curvy and having acute husband and they would go and go to a city and trial these restaurants and everything. And the group had in her opinion gotten to a place where they were going to jeopardize this trip for her and calling restaurants and making up lies and or going to the restaurants and you know, doing 101 star yelp refute reviews and all this. So you're fucking up the restaurant,

fucking up her career. And I have said like the doc I really want is exploring the person that doesn't just lurk on it and read it because maybe they knew the girl in high school and they're just kind of like enjoying reading the hate and they kind of enjoyed dancing on the grave. But the person that actively goes from being a fan to then spending hours a week to try to like take their their deals away and kick money out of their mouth and what did you find in that?

You know, I found that most of the snarkers that I talked to were former fans of the people that

“they were snarking about. So that's what fascinated me is like that's why the chapters called from”

love to hate is because these people, they, it's really interesting because they say they hate the people that they're snarking on. But like I was talking my mom about it, my mom was like, if I hate something, I just don't pay any attention to it. I don't talk about it. I don't put my effort into it. But these people are spending like you said sometimes hours per day or per week talking about these people and trying to change their lives for the worst. And so it's like,

I don't know that you can really say that you're a hater. Like you are a fan of some sort. Like that is fan behavior. What I thought was interesting when you're talking about some of the secret snarkers. It's like, but we're calling them out on, you know, if they were wrong or there's a moral high ground. It's a moral high ground. Like we are not going to allow this to happen. Like the same thing. Like, you know, I found that, you know, in 2008 on an interview, she mispronounced

word, what a fucking idiot. And like, you know, and then also finding their address before they

even closed on a house, things like that. And I always just wonder if if you're that person

and you're even like listening to this right now. Like, does it make you feel good? Or does it make you feel like a loser who needs to get help yourself? You know what I mean? I can't imagine it feels good to spend all that time tearing someone else down. And then going to the group, it's almost like, you know, I've said, and people are going to real mal when I said this, but I don't care. I always find it crazy when someone gets caught for child corn because they were

sharing it with other people. And I'm like, why would you, why would I would think that if you were

“that sick of a fuck, you would keep it to yourself? Right. Why would it's something that I think”

by sharing it, it like, normal, it makes them feel more normal that they're not the only ones that are saying these cruel mean things about somebody in their case. I'm saying the same reason, someone shares something as dark as that. Obviously, this isn't that, but like wanting to find

Yeah. You don't have to look at it. You don't have to participate in it.

“And you know, someone would argue like, it's a level of fame. Like, you should be proud that you”

have one because if you don't have one, why don't you have one? Yeah. Yeah. You've been influencing for years or you're a podcast for years. Like, why don't you have one? So I think once you get to that other side instead of going, but that's not true. I didn't do that, or I didn't say that,

or I don't feel that way. Forget it. Like, that is the most powerful thing. And then the other

thing, go have your fun. Go screen grab, you know, every story and saying this outfit didn't look good or look at a wrinkly elbow. I mean, but when you, but when you look at it and lead it yourself, yeah, I don't care how much of the Kardashian playlist that you have in your head of putting blinders on, Chloe used to get bothered, Kim didn't. Most people, if they even see it, it will seep in and affect their mood, their day, their week. It will be better see how it couldn't. I mean,

thank knock on what I shouldn't even say it out loud, but I don't have one. And I'm like, I don't know how

you would be able to not look at it, or if you did look at it, how you would be able to not

“take it in, but I think you're totally right that, like, if you have that many fans, you're going”

to have haters, and it is kind of like a badge of honor. Yeah. I mean, maybe if people realize that on both ends, it will just change, like, you know, I would just hate for anyone to get into a place of real darkness because of some strangers, you know, but like I said, sometimes it could go another level where it can, like, affect friendships, relationships, business partnerships. Yeah. And that is, that's also just being a public person putting it out there, you know? Yeah. And that is totally.

Well, the book is so good. Like, follow and subscribe. Great title. You've really done your research.

It's really interesting. I also think it's really fun if you are someone that does follow all these people. You do give all the Instagram accounts, and where they are, and it may be want to, like, look up and kind of, oh, that is, you know, and you might find some people that you end up really, you know, finding interesting or fun, or you might be happening over to the start group. Yeah, you might be who knows. I don't know. But, um, so tell everybody when it comes out and how they

can preorder and all that. Yeah. The book comes out on April 7th. You can preorder it now wherever you get your books. And you can find me online everywhere at High Fortessa, H.I. F.O.R. T.E. S.A.

“And I cannot wait for you guys to read it. It is so juicy. I think you're going to be astonished”

at other things that I found. Yes. And we kept a lot, we didn't get into. So we will be the book and we'll do another one and talk about it once everyone's bought the books and you're at a number one bus near check button. God willing. Thank you so much for coming on. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Hi. Welcome to Aaron is the funny one. Our weekly podcast with me, Jack from Jack's Family. Then me. Aaron from Aaron is the funny one. That's right. So me and

the old ball and Shane liked to host little games and quizzes such as? Is this a rock band or a racehorse? Which celebrity tweeted cringe? Is this an Alex Jones quote or an onion headline? Skateboarding trick or red hot chili peppers lyric? Is this a Pokemon or a pharmaceutical medication? And many, many more. We also do horror scopes. Wait, no, come back. Wow, shoot, we scared them off. Oh well, hey, if you're still here, check out Aaron is the funny one.

Please subscribe or I will drink this wine and that is a threat. Wow, cool threat, honey. Thanks. [BLANK_AUDIO]