On Wayway Don't Tell me the NPR News Quiz, we've had some of the biggest star...
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"Jump," that's NPR's "Wake Way Don't Tell Me," wherever you get your podcast. You're listening to LifeKit. From NPR. Hey, it's Mario. You ever have somebody say to you, "Just be positive when you're right in the middle of an impossibly hard life moment and it made you want to just punch them in the face."
Well, I'm not trying to get punched, so today we are not talking about positivity. We're talking about optimism. The two words that really come clear to mind when I'm thinking of optimism is resiliency and curiosity. Deepika Chopra is a behavioral scientist with a doctorate in Quinnacle Health Psychology, and her new book is called The Power of Real Optimism. Now, she says people tend to equate optimism with toxic positivity, and they say an
optimist in today's world must either be naive or ignoring reality. But when Deepika talks about optimistic people, she means the ones who are aware of setbacks and roadblocks, but they see these things as temporary and something that they can overcome, even if they don't know how or when, but they know they can because that's based on their own personal historical resiliency.
“So, quick tip. When you're looking for a shred of optimism in a tough time, remember,”
you can make it through this because you've made it through every single one of your hardest days to date. That's a fact that Deepika clung to when her world turned upside down a few years ago. My middle son who at the time was two and a half got handed this very earth-shattering medical diagnosis, and it was the darkest time of my life. Her son was in treatment for a year and a half. I mean, there were many months where I hid underneath my office desk and cried and said,
"I cannot do this, like I can't do this." But she could, and she did, time passed, her son finished treatment, and because of that experience, Deepika says, she has a new understanding of just how much she and her family are capable of. It wasn't what you call a positive experience, but it did reinforce her optimism. I may not know what the future holds at all, but I know that I can I will get through those hard things. They may break me again like this did, but I will put myself
“back together. I really think that resiliency is a really big part of real optimism.”
On this episode of LifeKit, Real Optimism, LifeKit reporter Andy Tagle talks to Deepika about the neuroscience of optimism, the secret power of visualizations and affirmations, and how to train your brain to be more optimistic on a daily basis. On Wayway Don't Tell me, the NPR News quiz, we've had some of the biggest stars in the world come on the show, but we don't ask them the questions everybody else does, you know, the ones they can answer. We asked them questions about
things, they don't know anything about. Some of them seem to enjoy the novelty. Join us for the show
that always zig's when they say "Jump." That's NPR's "Wake Wait Don't Tell Me," wherever you get your
podcast. Can anyone be an optimist? I took the quiz in your book and I landed on a high end. You know, it felt true to me, like it was mostly optimistic, and then I'm thinking of people have known who seem naturally more inclined to see the glass have empty. Is that natural? Are we a nightly one way or the other? So there's been a lot of research on this, and there's been a little bit of varying, but the most that I've ever seen related to a genetic component, a heritability,
aspect, is 25%. So we have the ability to learn it. And so that to me is very optimistic and great news. And so I do believe that optimism is a muscle, and we just have to work it out. And so I believe that everyone can raise their optimism factor. And, you know, way back when from an evolutionary
standpoint, we are more predisposed to be pessimistic or ancestors, always imagined the worst
case scenario. They planned for that, and they survived, and they passed that trade on. But we know that in our modern world to survive and to thrive is no longer equated to chronically and constantly imagining worst case scenarios. So we have to actively work this muscle out and train ourselves to be, more optimistic in a real way, because there are so many benefits, not just from an emotional standpoint of you, but even a physical standpoint of you that now we have, you know, the research on why
Optimism is so impactful and effective for you.
a lot of different reasons. Yes. And I imagine with, with this book with what you do, there's always
a certain percent of the population of people who might say, because of the climate, because of all the uncertainty in the world, because of fill in the blank, right now is not the time for optimism. What's your response to those people? I actually feel quite the opposite right now is literally and quite possibly the most important time in our society and culture for real optimism. No change can be made without optimism. So I feel like when people are angry about the way
that things are, it's important to have clarity on what's going on and a lot of what I talk about is the opposite of numbing out or shying away or turning off the news or, you know,
“ignorance is bliss. I don't, I don't actually believe in those things, of course, I believe in”
boundaries, but I believe that the real work of real optimism and the tools of it is what we need
to be able to stay engaged and to keep looking and to keep showing up and to keep deeply caring. You know, our, our nervous system and our brains and bodies were not actually meant to, they were not made to experience this much. And so we need tools proactively to arm ourselves with so that we can keep, you know, showing up and staying engaged because what we don't want are people that are apathetic or that are just numbed out. And so if there's one thing that I think is really
necessary right now is to train, we need so many more real optimists right now. Take away one. Optimism can be learned and often many of us experience optimism across the spectrum in different parts of our lives. For example, maybe it's easy for you to stay hopeful when it comes to your career because you've got a lot of experience in that arena, but when it comes to your love life, you're all doom and gloom. So if you're sick and positive
change, real clear-eyed optimism can be a powerful tool to do that, but it's going to require
some mental conditioning. Take away two. Try visualizing to shift your beliefs. Sensory-based visualization can help direct your attention to desirable outcomes and expand your belief in what is possible. The brain does not necessarily know the difference between something that it is imagining or that is a fantasy and something that is real. And that is because of our mirror neurons. And so once we have visualized something, especially if we've used all of our
senses, which make that visualization even more powerful, the brain starts to see that as a possibility. And something that can happen. It's the same way in sports psychology. There's a lot of mental rehearsing. A lot of times really elite athletes are not only obviously practicing physically, but they're also mentally rehearsing. Visualization works for so many different things.
“Number one, I think on a more general level, it is an excellent way to dismantle negative self”
beliefs. So like for me right now, I have a really, really strong self-limiting belief. And something that I really need to work on is I do not see myself as a strong body, like athletic person. I find it really hard to work out at all. And I really want to be able to be someone that wakes up in the morning or at some point, like lifts weights and does something active gets my heart rate up. And even that is so limiting for me because I label myself and say
out loud that that is just not me. To disrupt that idea, deep because as she would visualize herself going through that morning routine, being as detailed as possible and immersing herself in a sensory experience of that image. What is she wearing? How heavy are the weights and what do they feel like? What playlists is playing in her headphones? The more you can be specific and rooted in reality, we know this about visual imagery. Like if there's a specific place in my house
but I see myself doing this, it will serve me better to visualize all the components of that place in detail. So that when I go there or I am like met there, it will trip up my brain again with like weight I've been here before. I have done this. A pro visualization tip for beginners from Deepika, try this practice in the shower. She says it's a good place to start because people often
“have the mental time and space to close their eyes and imagine. Another potential option?”
Whenever you've got a brief waiting period. Say when you're a line at the grocery store, waiting for your stop at the bus, or during this brief a coming break. Then when we're back, we'll talk evidence-based affirmations.
On Wayway Don't Tell me the NPR News Quiz, we've had some of the biggest star...
come on the show, but we don't ask them the questions everybody else does. You know, the ones they can answer, we ask them questions about things they don't know anything about.
Some of them seem to enjoy the novelty. Join us for the show that always zig's when they say
jump. That's NPR's weight weight don't tell me wherever you get your podcast.
“You're back listening to LifeKit. But did you imagine while you were away?”
Were you stronger, smarter, kinder, cooler? Well, I've got another tool to help with that mental image. Affirmations. Maybe simply hearing this term. Due to its seeming ubiquitousness in the self-help space in the past few decades makes you feel feelings. I don't blame you. But do because as it's important to know, there are good neurological benefits to the practice. When you're intentional about it, take away three words matter. Using optimistic language,
with yourself and those around you can help meaningfully shift your perspective. And reframing your thoughts with more self-compassionate language is a common practice in other avenues too, like cognitive behavioral therapy for example. Because those negative beliefs can get really sticky. An example I'm sure you're familiar with, confirmation bias. Deepakka and I talked about our young kids and how quick others can be to embrace or
reject a personal attribute. Like, I can't play basketball. I never make it in the hoop. Or it's just
too hard. I'll never be able to learn to tie my shoes. We are evidence collectors. Our brains love evidence. The brain likes to believe what it already believes. So we have to remind and not just our two-year-olds. And like, this is just how our brains work. We can truly believe something and then go out in the world and seek out more evidence to make that true even if that is not the whole story. And so it's this idea that I always tell people, like, hey, why don't, for the rest of the
day, I want you to think about red cards. If you're on the lookout for them, it's like the town's painted red, right? A larger point here being what you're already thinking, already believing,
“your brain will seek out more of to make it true. That's why it's really important to be careful”
with your internal messaging. If there is a belief that you might have that is not serving you, then we need to work on, you know, other collection of evidence that slowly chip away at that. Enter affirmations. Frases you repeat to yourself to reinforce positive beliefs about yourself and others. But they're not all created equal. In order for them to have any impact, you have to actually believe what you're telling yourself. That's why Deepakah has a seven out of ten rule.
As in, on a scale of one to ten, how much do you want this thing? And how much do you actually
believe it can happen for you or to you in the near future? If the answer is less than a seven for
either question, start again. If you don't believe the thing, there's no point to it. Well, not even that, like, not even, you know, at best, it's just not useful at worst. It's actually
“pretty detrimental. For example, Deepakah mentioned a client who desperately wanted a serious relationship”
in his life. But when she asked him what made him lovable, the idea that he could be lovable was almost laughable to him. So in that case, a daily affirmation of, I am someone's dream come true, or even, I am worthy of love and affection was just too far outside of his reality to be helpful. It was like a one or a two out of ten. That is not enough of an expectation that this is going to happen. And so the work for us is enclosing that gap. And how we do that is not by a 360
turnaround blanket affirmation. How we do that is, you know, you hold this belief that I don't, I don't love myself. You know, I don't believe that in myself. So the flip is not what we do. It's more like, hey, can you give me one thing, one thing that you like about yourself? This kind of reframing can also be helpful for those little day-to-day annoyances that when they happen, can be like they're only ever happening to you. It's like when someone cuts you off and like
today it happened and getting to the studio. I had just the right amount of time and I was just going to make it, but you know, I made the wrong turn. And immediately I heard myself like, of course, it's always the times that I need to get somewhere that I make the wrong decision. You know, this is always going to be this way or, you know, it's this idea of permanence when something goes wrong. Whereas the flip is sort of when things go wrong, it's not always just you. There's a lot of
circumstances like, well, I know I left with just enough time, but next time maybe I had the thought in my head like I should leave a little extra time for these type of things.
Think about the last time you stubbed your toe or got on the wrong train or c...
of jam. Did you see a terrible cramped apartment, declare yourself hopeless or curse the universe
for having an out for you? Maybe next time, you could see an opportunity to rearrange the furniture and get creative, enjoy the unexpected adventure, or be grateful for that strong friendly neighbor next door. Our final offering to help shift into a more optimistic mindset, manifestation. I'll go ahead and let Deepak address your concerns right up front. I am not in the camp that believes in just
“wanting to win the lottery and then expecting it to fall into your lap. I think there is just like,”
and I think most people now get to the point where they understand that, but there is still a lot of sort of the touting of that. The common misconception about manifestation, she says,
is that it's a passive practice. People assume you can just will the universe to provide,
ready some positive energy, and then wait for the good times to roll in. Deepak's practice on the other hand, which she calls evidence-based manifestation, is optimism backed up by action, to illustrate her point. She told me about her dad, who came to the US with $8 in his pocket from a small town in India. Today, he's a successful engineer and businessman. But before he had those titles and before he immigrated, he would cut out like cars and various different things
and keep a scrapbook and not even just dream, but like these things will be part of my life, and pretty much everything that was in that scrapbook of his has come to fruition. That's not because Deepak's dad made an OG vision board and then wished real hard on it. He left it behind at India, but he did zeroing on his goals and his belief he could achieve them. So much so that he put in the blood, sweat and tears, to make them a reality until they were. Only later did I learn
about the scrapbook, and it was like, whoa, all these things like he's living them, not because they fell in his lap, like he made all of those things happen. And he believed he could. So take away four, got big dreams, hoping for a brighter future. Evidence-based manifestation is optimism and action. It could help get you moving on that journey by shifting your attention, energy, and beliefs towards your goals. On the whole, I think people really focus on the want,
and they're not necessarily focusing on the expect, and they're not focusing on the journey and the hard work in actualizing it. And so yes, you can visualize something, but in order to actualize
“it, it is a journey, and it takes work, and you have to be also willing to visualize the”
setbacks, and the less than ideal situations and the hiccups, and how will you be during those
parts of it, too, because none of us are immune to struggle. I always say, you know, real optimism
doesn't deny the dark. It just gives us a way to see within it. Let's say growing up, you're really wanting to be an astronaut. Just believing it's possible to set foot on the moon wouldn't be enough to get you into a space suit, of course. But if you hold on to that dream throughout your school years, that enthusiasm might lead you to certain books, or clubs, or friends, inspire you to pursue a particular university, or major, or entire career path. You're going to come up with
so many ideas, and you're going to understand what the work is, and then in top of it, if you persevere through that, maybe along the way while you're doing this, something else comes out of it that you want even more. Because trying to manifest something does not guarantee you'll get exactly what you're hoping for, but as they say, shoot for the moon, land among the stars. So we have to know the purpose and the why. Then our brain starts unlocking, you know, the path forward, and we
took it, and either we continue going down that path or it opens new paths for us. Right, such that when we look back, you know, 10 years from now, we'll be like the universe conspired. Yes, we manifest it this way. But optimism isn't just a practice for the future. Seeing the upside is plenty beneficial in the present moment. I'll be it. Sometimes, equally hard to find. Our last takeaway, number five, set yourself up for success on a daily basis
with optimistic rituals. Maybe that means taking time to celebrate small wins at the end of each day. I make something every night, and I, it's called it to doll list instead of a to do list.
“I write down everything that I accomplish and I did. That's what I see before I go to bed.”
And it is so helpful, and I also do this with my children. Because when I go to bed, I want to feel a sense of purpose and like a win. That's how I go to sleep. And the smaller the better. I mean, there are things on my list that are like, I drink water today. Maybe a morning gets party is more your style. That's another tip from Deepak's Playbook. Or maybe it's enough for you just to set stricter boundaries around when you allow yourself to sit with your woes.
It'd be great if you didn't have any of course, but we are going to worry.
Worry is part of our existence. And so one thing that I do that is really helpful is I actually
“schedule worry time into my day. Remember, for better and worse, nothing is forever. Do what”
you can when you can give yourself some grace. Just being able to show up and engage in life without the pressure of perfection and with the idea that we are going to make mistakes. And again, none of us are immune to struggle. But how we are sort of navigating and what tools we have at our disposal and we are equipped with to walk through these moments are important for us and
people around us. Deepak Chopera, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you for your optimism. Thank you for having me.
“Thanks for looking up. Let's recap why. Take away one. Optimism can be a powerful vehicle”
for positive change. We can all train to be more optimistic by conditioning our future-minded brains to be more curious, resilient, and see the bad times as temporary. Take away two. Sensory-based visualization can help direct your attention to desirable outcomes and expand your belief in what is possible. Take away three. The stories we tell ourselves and the people around us can have a big impact. So be careful and deliberate with the words you use. Reinforce your
optimistic outlook with specific personal affirmations and language that leave room for growth and change. Take away four. Evidence-based manifestation puts your optimism in action. If you have your sights set on a goal, visualize and affirm the belief you can achieve it. Then go do the work. Take away five. Set yourself up for success by building opportunities for optimism into your daily schedule. Make a habit of a morning dance party. Schedule worry time. Right out of total is before bed
or just express and gratitude to someone somewhere in your day. I'm sure it's not that hard to find an opportunity. That was life kit reporter Andy Tagle. And that's our show. Hey one last thing. Would you consider rating and reviewing life kit in your podcast app? It helps grow the show and
“spread the word. Here's a review I liked from a listener called Frank Lee. Sometimes I think y'all”
are reading my mind or filming me for ideas. Every day on life kit is like everything I'm thinking recently, LOL, I love y'all. I love y'all too. Be like Frank. Help us spread the word about life kit. Leave us a review in your podcast app right now. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Sylvie Douglas and Mika Ellison. Our digital editor is Malika Garib. Megan Kane is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes
Claire Marie Schneider and Margaret Serino. Engineering support comes from Tiffany Vatter Castro. Fact checking by William Chase and Barkley Walsh. I'm Mary Elsa Garra. Thanks for listening. On Wayway Don't Tell me the NPR news quiz we've had some of the biggest stars in the world come on the show but we don't ask them the questions everybody else does you know the ones they can answer. We ask them questions about things they don't know anything about. Some of them seem
to enjoy the novelty. Join us for the show that always zig's when they say jump.
That's NPR's wait wait don't tell me wherever you get your podcast.
