From Bachelor to Betrayed | BONUS

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Hey there.

“This is Josh from Stuff You Should Know.”

With a message that could change your life. The stuff you should know. Think Spring Podcast Playlist is available now. Whether Spring has sprung in your neck of the wood yet or not. The stuff you should know.

Think Spring Playlist will make you want to get your overalls on. Get outside and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the stuff you should know. Think Spring Playlist on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts.

Or wherever you get your podcasts. The people with what's up. It's Quest Love.

So recently I had the incredible opportunity to have a real conversation with actress and producer

Jamie Lee Curtis from routines to recovery. True lies. And a certain German Jackson music video. Jamie's real and raw. And something I really admire about her.

I am so happy that I'm then head. And charge at 67 that I have the perspective that I have at my age. To really be able to put all of this into context. Listen to the Quest Love Show on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts.

Or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.

“You doctor this particular test twice in silence, correct?”

I doctor the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Regulaspianth. Michael Manchini.

My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura Scott Stelpoise.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. High Love Trapped listeners. It's Stephanie. It's been a whirlwind of a week.

I just got back from South by Southwest Festival in Austin, Texas. It was an unbelievable experience where I was able to meet some of my favorite podcast hosts and even got to present an award at the iHeart Podcast Awards. I also got to do a sit down interview live from Austin with Clayton and my executive producer for Love Trapped. And the host of the hit true crime podcast betrayal on Dreah Gunning.

Also fun fact about betrayal on Sunday March 29th at 10 p.m. Eastern. Betrayal is premiering on ABC Network. One of the first podcasts to become a prime time TV series. I'm so excited for all my colleagues associated with this show, so please be sure to check it out. And don't forget new episodes of Love Trapped come out every Thursday.

Thank you so much for your support. Now let's get into it. Here's my sit down conversation with Clayton and Andrea about how Love Trapped came to be. I hope you enjoy it. So I've been with Glass Podcast since June of last year.

And this is my first time meeting my executive producer for Love Trapped in person on Dreah Gunning. She is the host and producer of betrayal. Also another iHeart and Glass Podcast. And we are at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas with iHeart. And we've got Clayton Eckerd here and we're going to talk a little bit about the making of Love Trapped.

Yeah. It's great. It's such a good show guys. You really knocked it out of the park. Well thank you obviously for providing us with the platform to do so.

And you're you're quite an expert obviously and stories like this. I'm just curious first question. I want to start off with is.

“Does this impact you like mentally to to go through these things and you know what?”

How do you protect your own mental health? It's a really good question. That not a lot of people take the time to ask. So thank you for asking that. They do impact me.

I deal with in different ways.

My physical health to keep my energy up.

I think I worked my for one of my first podcasts that I ever produced was confronting.

Columbine and immediately after I went and bought a dog I was like I need. I need like emotional support like you need love and a safe space. But I've been doing it for so long now that I can kind of compartmentalize. But it does take a toll like this past season of betrayal season five is really. Near and dear to my heart because it's about a really heavy topic that I've.

Experience in a an adjacent way. So I have a really great team. Stephanie's on it. You're incredible.

“And I think it's just like relying on the team around you to pick up where you need to and take the time.”

Go for walks and just manage the material where you can. That's all I can really say. I work out. I lift a lot of weights that also. Definitely helps.

Yeah. There's so many sensitive topics in love trapped and I think one of the things that. I've realized in my research is that a lot of the people in the support system. Um, comes from people that have experienced something like Laura claims she has experienced. So I know that you and I have had conversations about that offline where it's like.

These are really sensitive topics. How are we going to take care of these when we. Tell them to the audience and also how are we going to take care of ourselves? So that was a really great question, Clayton. Thank you.

And I also yeah, I want to know, I mean, what, why, why, why hop on? It's obviously super grateful to have you as a part of the team. Yeah. I mean, but what was the, the drugs? I mean, you guys originally came to me and asked if this was something that I'd be comfortable sharing.

And certainly your reputation and what I had seen. I'm like, okay, you know, this is somebody that understands they share stories of similar nature. So for me, I'm in good hands with, with expertise.

“But you know, like, what, what drew you guys to reaching out?”

So I can't speak for we have another company we work with. It's crybaby Danny and love. It's a little inside baseball, but they were the ones that originally reached out to you. And I think that they just saw. I think love was googling a Laura Owens for something completely different.

It's an artist. It's totally different. So crazy how that comes together by the way that he was looking for a completely separate Laura Owens. Right. And so love works in development and he's constantly finding stories. And so he was online looking for something completely different.

Stuffed upon your Laura Owens. Yeah. And I think through that, just. Once you get a sense of the story, you do a deep dive. And I think in episode one, you even say to stop me like, be careful.

Because once you start, like, you can't. You're.

It's the rabbit hole that you never returned from.

I'm there right now. Yeah. I'm in it. Absolutely. And so when Danny and Lev brought this to glass podcast, which is a division of glass entertainment group. My colleague Ben and I were just.

Oh, this feels really in line with a lot of the stuff that we do. Specifically, betrayal. But don't like saying that. But my brand is like betrayal lies and deceit. And your story has a lot of that.

But it's not just about. The lies. It's about the aftermath and the emotional experience when. You've been here, your life has been hijacked by somebody and has altered your reality. And I think that glass is a really good job of taking a complicated story

and allowing the audience to emotionally relate to it. So yeah, the headlines are the obvious, like. You know, the roller coaster of story points that your story has. But what really intrigued me was the emotional access that people could relate to from you.

“That's what's important to me in storytelling.”

And how did it come about? You know, like Lev finds this podcast or this idea for a podcast or a documentary. And then what happens from there because I signed on for this project after it had already been sold to IR. Yeah, I mean, you worked on it sooner than I did actually Clayton. You guys did a real fur television.

And so at glass, we simultaneously shop the audio rights and then the non-scripted rights. And so Danny and Lev were creating a real and then Ben and I saw it and we're like, What is this story? Oh my God. We got to send this to our partners and like shop it around.

But the first, you know, place we took it was I heart and they just get it.

Like they understand everything about what betrayal brings to the table in terms of complicated story. Complicated storytelling and knows that we can deliver on how complicated your story is and so. And they got it right away. Yeah. Yeah. And I think what's so interesting too is that I had actually interviewed for a job with you in 2021. Yes, you did. Oh my gosh.

And my husband got the job over me. We accidentally applied for the same job.

And so when this came across my desk, when it was brought to me, like, I think the question for you is why, why me for this story? Well, I think I should tell a Clayton that we were, there was two finalists. And it was 70's husband and Stephanie and we just it was more of a male producing role.

“And so that's why I was being out the job.”

And but ever since we had interviewed you for that, it wasn't the right fit. It was more of a male POV. So, but ever since then, we were like, what's Stephanie doing? And your husband's like, she's busy lately, we're alone. And so when this came around, I knew that you had interest in bachelor nation,

because you had interviewed for Jason Tartick's show, right? So, like, I didn't interview. I was like in in process of like trying to really work on that show. I think she was a story that I got. I was like, oh, so she's clearly in bachelor nation.

Yes. Maybe she'll have interest in working on your story. But I just threw our conversations. I knew that you could really dive into source material. There is so much material to read and immerse yourself in, like,

“legally, the legal documents, thousands and thousands of pages.”

And this is this is a high stakes story. We're dealing with someone that's really complicated, very litigious. So it takes someone that's going to be really careful. And I just felt that you could do it. I felt like you were the right person for the job.

Thank you. And I have to say that I've learned so much from you from a storytelling perspective. And I couldn't have done this podcast without the glass podcast team. I mean, I'm hosting it, and I'm the producer, but the people behind the scenes really audio editors, story editors,

producers, like every single person you hear in the credits, puts such a good touch on making this a final product.

The one thing I do want to ask Clayton, though, is we had that first conversation

and you're like, you know, you're going to be in over your head with it. When was the moment for you that you decided, like,

“I'm going to trust Stephanie with this, because you were a little guarded at first.”

Oh, are you? I was, yeah, I actually wasn't enthusiastic all about doing a podcast. I wanted it to be a documentary or be nothing. Just because I wasn't really aware of how the podcast would actually turn out. And so I had them basically kind of proved to me that I said,

send me material. What have you done in the past? Let me, like, actually see a proof of concept. And when I listened to one of the podcasts within, like, a minute, I realized I'm like, this is not your typical podcast.

This is a storytelling way of doing it. It's really intriguing. And you know what, this actually could work. And so I then became very excited by that. But I'm still like, hey, look, we're pushing this as a documentary.

Like, that's the first and foremost, which is this podcast,

will be on the back end of it. Funny how it works out. I'll think, well, I just, you know, said, let's do it. But then when I met Stephanie, yeah, I mean, look, I, she's very sweet. She's nice.

Like, she's, I mean, I've loved it a death, and she's come on a team. But I thought, look, you don't know what you're getting into. Like, there's just so much here and unless you are willing to, like, fully immerse yourself, you're going to miss out on details. You're not going to tell it correctly.

And this is going to potentially put me at risk of, like, having a story told and an incorrect manner. What do you've already had? Which I've already had. You know, I've been very sensitive to that with previous shows where I'm not really happy with how things are portrayed because to me they're not fully real to what I experienced.

So this is another situation where I'm like, look, if I'm going to be vulnerable again and allow producers once again to tell my life story, I'm not doing this where it gets told incorrectly or altered in a way to just make it appear sexier at the expense of me. That was, obviously, the big hesitancy. So what really sold me on you was the amount of time.

And in the genuine, I could just feel your energy from the jump. Like, she's really, like, she cares, first and foremost.

This isn't about her just napping a new story. This is really about her looking me and the eyes and being like, I really want to share your story and tell this. And I will put as much effort in as I can to make this in a way that, you know, that tells your story in the way that you wanted to be told. And it was a good synergistic relationship because I told her, I wanted to be told. In the real way, I don't want this to be like everyone pat-clating on the back and call them a superstar.

I said, I want this to be shared as it is. Like, I'm not on a pedestal. Like, I'm just, I'm in the middle somewhere. I'm not good. I'm not bad. I'm just in the middle like any other human. I really respect that. And I think one of our core values like glass podcasts is, like, the beautiful complexity that is the human experience.

Good and bad choices. There are gradients of decision-making where, you know, there's accountability and culpability on different sides of the street.

And what I love about betrayal when I love about your show and just your story is that you're okay with leaning into your vulnerabilities and the choices that you make.

“And I think that there is emotional access there.”

We talk about that a lot at class podcasts about what's emotional access. Like, the part of me that's a part of you. Someone can hear your story and say, I made a similar decision. I didn't meet a lot of our own, but I kind of walk similar steps.

And you can only do that by living in that gray, right? Like, and that's the real reality.

It's not like the good and the bad. It's the middle. Yeah, and for me too, I mean, I also as I realized when I decided to make this known to a larger audience that I was receiving a lot of back on the backside of things and my DMs, you know, support from men that were saying, hey, look, like, thank you so much for speaking up because I'm going through this. And then I was getting 10, 20, 15, or 50 different messages of people saying that my brother went to this or a friend went to this or my significant other.

“And, you know, I have been grateful because I think victims should just be able to tell their story. Whatever victims look like, you know,”

whether your male female, whatever, you know, your skin color doesn't matter. It's like, if you're the victim, you're the victim and everyone deserves to have their story be told.

So for me, it seemed that I was able to, you know, start shining a light on hey, like there's victims of all different shapes and sizes and like we just need to get the story out. Because yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people that don't speak up because they're like, I'm not certain how it'll be received. And I hope that I mean what's been awesome about this podcast is I think it's encouraging a lot of people to speak up because the reception is positive. Hey, and I also, again, I'm like, look, don't portray me as perfect portray me as human because that's what's relatable and people can go, okay, like, look, I don't have to be a perfect human in order to be believed. I just have to be real and honest.

Let's talk about that for a second. In this story, the main victims are males and there's a lot of collateral damage in love trapped where it's, you know, family members attorneys, the, the victims run deep in my opinion on this, but the main victims are male. In betrayal, we hear a lot of female victims and a few males. So what was it like for you to kind of flip the script and executive produce a story that is kind of different same but different than betrayal. It is different. I mean, we're always looking for male POV because, you know, we just have our community is primarily female on betrayal and the people that come forward who want to share their story are mostly women.

And so we'll take whenever we can. If there's a guy that wants to share their story, we're like, absolutely because it just helps dismantle shame. And I think for men in particular, that's the biggest hurdle. So when they hear other men come out, you know, talk about their story, share what they went through. It helps another man on the other side of just listening and say, okay, maybe I can talk about it. Maybe not on a worldwide global platform, but I can share it with a friend.

“And so that's why I think it's really important for diversity of voices. And I would love to have more men on the show.”

And that's why I think you are so valuable is because you're like, it's not often where a man can come forward and say, you know, all this happened to me because of because of shame, I think. And the emotional vulnerability of Clayton throughout this entire process has been something that I've really admired. Like, from the very beginning, you haven't held anything back, whether it's anger, sadness, excitement sometimes about what's going on with the case. So I just want to tell you thank you for that because that's what's made the story as great as it is.

Yeah, well, for me, I thought, you know, as I reflect upon any time that I share something, it's, if I'm feeling something and somebody else, if they go through something similar likely has these wave of emotions. Yeah, there is obviously the pressure, sometimes it falls on my shoulders where I say, hey, it's been three years. I was, it was okay for me to have anger, you know, on year one, but by year three, I should be able to be okay with it and I should be the bigger person. But then I realized, I'm like, that's just not how healing occurs. It's not a linear thing, you know, you might feel like you're over it and then some old feelings come back.

And for me, I feel it's a responsibility to showcase that because I'm not trying to come across as a perfect human.

So I'm not going to be able to get through this. It's like, no, if I share that I'm still having vulnerable moments and I thought I was past things that I'm not and I'm going back.

It's like, it's not really going backwards. This is just being human. This is how things naturally progress. So I've let that go where I'm like Clayton, you don't have to seem like you're now sitting three years later, like you've gotten to this level of maturity. You know, you can show the raw emotions that still exist if they exist and show them. If they don't exist, don't show them, but like just give whatever is within you, like put that out there. Because that's going to be relatable to a lot of people. They're going to say, okay, like look, he still deals with this. So they'll give them self-grace because they'll say,

"Hey, I'm three years into my situation. I still have anger." But so does he, so this must be normal.

And I think it's okay for you to still have anger because the story is still ongoing. It's not completely closed yet.

“Yeah, look, I think anger is, there's certainly like, I mean, there's a purpose for it. I don't think we're supposed to eradicate anger from our lives. I mean, it's important. Someone breaks into your house. You want to have anger kick in, right?”

You need a quick emotion to go fight back. And so, and for me, same thing, if somebody harms you, you know, not just sometimes turning another cheek, but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. And that was the realization that I quickly picked up on with war. It was like, it's a fire with fire scenario. So I need to allow, like if she's going to fight with hatred in her heart, I need to fight with anger in mind. Because that's the only way that sometimes you have to get to that point where it's the only way that you can battle back and win the battle. So it's picking and choosing those times.

And I think anger has a night of connotation, and I'm trying to show people that there's a place for it where it's actually, it's useful. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop. I was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing, and immediately the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband.

“So keep this secret for so many years. He's like a seasoned pro.”

This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. Losing to portrayal season five on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been along on your favorite iHeart Radio station and the iHeart Radio app. I'm hosting by Budacris. I kind of would receive the in John Melancham. Innovator would receive the in my own service. With performances by Alex Warren, Kalani. The lady will say. The Ducrists. The TLC. The Shulton Kappa. And in Vogue.

Taylor Swift to make their first award show appearance this year.

“Hey there. This is Josh from stuff you should know. With a message that could change your life. The stuff you should know. Think Spring Podcast playlist is available now.”

Whether Spring is sprung in your neck of the wood yet or not. The stuff you should know. Think Spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on. Get outside and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the stuff you should know. Think Spring playlist on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.

This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctor this particular test twice in selling stretch. I doctor the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Some like the greatest disinfectant. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Break a Westby aunt, I can imagine it. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is LoveTrap.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at AmeriCorps Accountia's Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until Justice has served in Arizona. Listen to LoveTrap podcast on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And Andrea, let me ask you this with a lot of the betrayal stories. There's a conclusion.

“You know, like there is a court case that has been adjudicated and how, how have the victims on betrayal handled when it's finally done in the court system?”

And they have to move on with their lives after that?

This may not be the answer you want to hear, but oftentimes it's a whole new experience.

Like, there's sometimes a conditional way of thinking when you're in like a trauma mode. A lot of times when you're dealing with the criminal justice system you're in survival mode. And you are living an existing and conditional thing. If I just get here to this court date, this hearing. I'm just moving forward and putting one foot in front of the other. And I totally understand that. And so when you get to a sentencing hearing or plea deal and you think it's an ending, you realize that actually on the other side of it is a whole new journey of dealing with whatever that decision is.

“Whatever the verdict is, whatever the sentencing is, and it's a whole new room and you've just opened.”

And so for me, a lot of my storytellers, it's that unpredictable. Like, it's a different stage and a whole different set of grief. Like, you're just existing and dealing with one aspect and then you can actually then mourn and grieve the actual thing that you experienced on the other side of it. So that could, I don't know what will happen. But it's just that's oftentimes what I find with the people I work with. There's a whole other set where there's a conclusion.

Yeah, which makes sense and I can attest to that. I mean, you think about what reality might be. But of course, like when you go to these court hearings and there's an outcome presented, you know, that becomes your reality. And that becomes the thing that you then react to. Prior to that point, you say it could be this, it could be this, it could be this. So you're prepping your emotions for what might be, but really, I mean, that's almost in a way wasted energy because it's not actuality. I mean, that's where, yes, with this court case coming up.

I've obviously thought about what could occur, but ultimately like a wound or, you know, something will open up once the facts are all laid out there.

And it's like, here is the outcome. This is where we're headed now. Now I have to respond to that path that we're on because that's the path we're walking down. A lot of what we deal with on Betrayal is, you know, you have the personal interpersonal betrayal, but then there's that secondary betrayal that exists within institutions. And a lot of my cases, it's what the criminal justice system and the sentencing, not really matching the crime. Yeah. And knowing like the prosecutors, the people on the legal teams with the best of intentions, but very little resources can't really accomplish whether it's because of flaws in certain states or just because of the amount of case load that they have.

There is just this injustice between someone's life being fundamentally altered by this person. And versus, you know, 18 months in jail, or no jail time and just probation. And that is a whole other level of betrayal and emotional, like having to reconcile that we often deal with just at glass and like the stories that we pick.

“That's what's really fascinating to me. And what is justice and how do you relate to it? And it's hard to confront a system that you're supposed to believe in.”

And that also failure. Yeah. Andrey with all of the stories that you've covered in betrayal. After these have been adjudicated, like we just talked about, is there a happy ending for people? At the end of our betrayal weekly, we ask everyone why do you want to share your story. We used to end our shows with like where people are now and oftentimes we would wrap up the episode by saying, you know, this person can trust again. We've met there in a relationship where they got married and we used to get emails that said stop ending your episodes with relationship.

Because these people don't need another person to be fulfilled. So in a way, we started rewriting the way that we would end our weekly episodes to be like, actually, where is that person today? Like, what is their purpose? How are they finding life and really defining, you know, what their life looks like today as opposed to who they are in relationship with another person?

So for me, I don't believe in conditional thinking like I don't believe in like where is my ending.

“I just think it's a constant pursuit of where am I going to feel fulfilled and that feels so ongoing, which is hard when you work in an industry that wants a book end.”

But for me, again, we talk about the complexity of being human, but that's reality. Yeah, you know. Yeah, I mean, I think you said that perfectly, I know we all want a happy ending that makes us feel good, but I believe like life.

It's a journey and it's a process and you know, when you go through situations like this.

I believe that those happier endings do occur, but maybe by the time you follow up, they're still deep within their healing journey. And maybe they've closed that chapter, but it opened up another five.

“I mean, that's what I've found as I went on my journey towards healing from my past and going through things like this is like, you might heal from one thing and then you open up five more from the past.”

Just because like a lot of things when we were younger, we didn't have the emotional wherewithal to unpack it.

So as you go deeper down this, the into your past, you start connecting dots and it just opens up five more doors.

Yeah, and I think I can say when I work on a limited run series will dedicate, you know, nine months to a year, sometimes two years working with one storyteller on betrayal. And then we'll not see them for some time and then we'll go out and shoot the TV show and it's all good to be with them again. And then for two other families, like we did a cruise like another like a year later, so I saw them in very different stages over the course of two, three years. And it's such an evolving experience and you know, different times the year bring up really different emotions.

And so I just look at them as like fully formed humans and they're just getting through their life in their day and so for me. I just see them in their own sequence of life as opposed to, you know, me being comfortable with whether okay, that's on them. You know what I mean, like that's I have to be okay with knowing that they're just living their life, you know.

“And let me ask you this, Clayton, what has been the most rewarding part of this for you?”

And also what do you hope comes out of this? I believe for me, I mean, the most rewarding aspect has been the collective healing that I've seen. For one to be able to see the other victims and see hope come back within their bodies and for them to say, hey, look, actually everything after all this time I actually might be able to close a chapter on this because it'll be over as opposed to our continually antagonizing us. But then I've also seen healing from a greater level of just the entire community and people coming together with shared experiences of trauma and being able to find their tribe.

That's been the most rewarding aspect of all of this. And so for for what I hope for like this what to come from this is just the continuance of that, you know, I mean, selfishly sure anything that can can help me out in my life, you know, through more exposure. I'll take, but I it's not the expectation that this launches me into another realm of relevancy or whatever it's more hey this has been a really great display of community involvement and what it can do. So I hope that this forever ties people together and new friendships are made and like if this carries on and it all splits up we all go our separate ways, but a few of us have a couple new friends along the way that we can lean on when we go through hardships in the future.

That's what I would hope for is just that that's that's that's what occurs from all this and I think the online community has been such an incredible part of this entire story and as we're still in the trenches of production of love trapped Andrea I want to ask you throughout this entire experience from development to now to hearing the episodes that have come out to knowing what's coming because we obviously talk about them behind the scenes like what has been the most surprising part of this. Of this entire story for you.

The amount of people that have come to. Support you got a rallied behind you it's an incredible thing to witness and bear witness to like why respectfully like if I were in your position I feel like why is everyone championing me like why me why this story.

Is it just people who are fighting for truth and like realness in a really difficult time culturally and our society.

But also she hits on really delicate things that a lot of women deal with. Very deep inside we're talking about really tough subject matter like rape pregnancy big decisions around pregnancy. And so there are a lot of women that have walked those shoes and men like and you know. That have lived it that have made the choices that she has claimed to make and hear her set of facts and are like well that is so not right and so when you kind of go through things that she's claiming she's gone through.

It is so real and so raw that you feel like no other option but to rally for the truth because right we're talking about really big subjects.

“I hope I'm making sense but that's why I think that was what was most surprising for me is to see how.”

What she's doing what she's putting out there people on such a visceral level are like that's not okay. Because it's so many things it's not just one thing like you said it's rape it's pregnancy it's pregnancy loss it's all of these things all these sensitive things that happened to women. Right so whether or not you've been a victim of sexual assault whether or not that you've decided.

Listen maybe right now it's not the right time for me to have this child for whatever reason whether you've had a miscarriage these are all very intense emotional experiences to go through.

Alone like as a because it you're you're dealing with something that involves your body and it's so complicated so someone someone weaponizes those things. It's it's really really hard so I to watch that community like you get it you're like okay this is like you've got the internet detectives like this is crazy they're helping the bachelor but when you really sit with the reality of why they're doing it. It is really true and really honest and like deep deeply feminist which is why I love it.

“What it needs to be bigger than me it is bigger than me you know I've even seen people say we should change the name I'm like and I'm all fun fine with that you know because I think if you just kept it at me.”

It couldn't reach the audience that it has it couldn't help out more than it would be like all with the center focus is just on him it's like no no let's have healing far greater than just me you know let's build a community far wider. I think what's like to what you just said you know the shock is that you'd think that like good is what unites people but truly what it was is of all of Laura's lies of what she claims she went through that she never did. That's evil united everybody and that's what's this is what you what you're seeing is true evil united a large group of people and and how she not made those claims I mean I don't think you'd have the level of support and the collective group that you have.

In the middle of the night Sasuke woke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Sasuke's life forever. I said I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing and immediately the mask king off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. So keep this secret for so many years. He's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. There's person who creates an vulnerable and trusting people you're trying to make a love and good.

Listen to betrayal season five on the iHeart Radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

“Hey there. This is Josh from stuff you should know with a message that could change your life.”

The stuff you should know think spring podcast playlists is available now whether spring is sprung in your neck of the wood yet or not. The stuff you should know think spring playlists will make you want to get your overalls on get outside and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the stuff you should know think spring playlists on the iHeart Radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Our iHeart Radio musical words are coming back. There's the March 26 live on fox. Watch as we honor the biggest stars from all genres of music that you love listening to all year long on your favorite iHeart Radio station and the iHeart Radio app.

Hosted by food of Chris. I kind of would recipient John melancham innovator would recipient my own Cyrus with performances by Alex Warren Kalani.

Plus Taylor Swift to make their first award show appearance this year.

“Also gold medal Olympian Alyssa Liu Nio Nicole Shersinger Nikki Glaser somber wiser and more.”

Watch live on fox Thursday March 26th at eight seven central and listen that iHeart Radio station's across America and the free iHeart app. In 2023 former bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story this began a year's long court battle to prove the truth. You doctor this particular test twice in selling stretch i doctor the test once it took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for some like the greatest disinfectant. They would uncover a disturbing pattern two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Olesby and Michael Marancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young this is love trap.

Well, Scott's the police as the season continues Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at America for county as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice has served in Arizona. Listen to love trapped podcast on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So Clayton it's obvious that you were you know the the former bachelor.

“I think there's a couple episodes where we're having conversations about something and I'm like I cannot believe that this is my job.”

And this is what I'm talking to the former bachelor about because it's honestly that wild. But when we brought the podcast to you, what was it like for you to see this team of producers this production and be able to trust them. Trust us, I guess, with with your story. Yeah, I mean, look, I have trust issues with entertainment groups because I've I've it's a whole conglomerate of people. And you know, I've also realized for the longest I said, you know, I don't trust producers.

Really, I was putting all of that weight on their shoulders because the further that I got into the mix and understood all the players and the game I realized, you know, the editors. Are the ones that really are are just as equally at that fault, at least when it comes to if I'm placing fault on people that are causing me to lack trust. And so, you know, even though we had a strong connection right away and I trusted you. I was still like, look, I'm fearful of the editors because they are behind the scenes. I'm not talking with them.

So they're not getting to know me. So all they get is they get material fed to them and they go, well, this is what we have. And we can take this in this direction or this direction or that direction.

And so even though I was able to lower my guard with you, it wasn't until the first episode came out that I was able to actually fully lower my guard because it was, all right, here we go again.

I'm going to press play and there's no going back. So when I press play, it doesn't matter if I don't like this by the end of this podcast, I will understand what narrative that they're spending and is it something that is aligned with me or is it not because it doesn't really matter at this point. If it's not aligned with me, I can't press the rewind button. It's out there and this is the way that they're taking it and I've already signed the documents. So that's when you write, when you sign on the dotted line, they tell you nothing to worry about. We're going to tell you, tell your story in the way that you wanted to be told.

And if you're a good person, that's the way that you'll be perceived. I was told that verbatim and then, you know, I watched my show air on the bachelor. And, you know, how talk about really messing me up psychologically. Because I went back to that moment, I watched the bachelor and I said, but wait, they said, if I was a good person, that's the way I'll be perceived. So am I not a good person?

“You know, that's what I had to fight with. And it really, you know, it really talk about some of that anger.”

You know, I have a Harvard a lot of anger towards that individual because I'm like, what did you lie to me or maybe I'm a monster and I don't even realize it. I'm I lied to myself. So it's, it's, it's hard. And even though you were incredible from the jump until I pressed play on episode one, I was really just vulnerable and thought, I honestly, this could be round three, or around at this point, round four of, you know, of putting my story out there.

And I want you to know from my perspective and Drake and Natasha really cared. Like she was really like, and you are, you continue to be, and you never stop, but she always was keeping you in mind.

And there was this level of also keeping Laura in mind too, and in certain ways, it's really hard when you're dealing with a lot of flies, but we do consider the complexity of her stories too of like, could she go back to plan parenthood twice because she wasn't ready the first time. Yeah, the reality is she could because it says scary experience. So it's like a delicate balance of being fair, but also just telling reality and throughout the whole time you were just trying to do right by the story.

“And you're the kind of person of like the truth is the truth. And so it was not hard.”

Yeah, I mean, because also too, I'm glad you brought it up. Look like beneath the anger or beyond the anger, Laura still human. And I think, you know, it's not for me. It's not about trying to raise me up and lift me up and then push her further down. I really want her to heal. I want her to see a brighter day. And so, you know, it's it's it's uncovering and sharing the story and hopefully, you know, being able to find resolution across the board. You know, I would love to be able to see her be able to have her moment where she something strikes and her over.

It opens up her mind and goes wait. Hold on, like something's clearly off here.

“By way of numbers, the community that that's formed against me. I mean, maybe I'm in the wrong here.”

Maybe I've been lied to maybe I've had wrong the wrong people in my corner. So again, there's a complexity. And we're not here to, you know, say, here's the good and here's the bad as most most TV shows do. And there's it's just good bad, you know, happy sad. And it's like, no, like this is about the complexity of the human life and sharing stories. But also being mindful of that, like, everyone involved in this is still human. Like, how do we produce an outcome that is favorable to all long term because it's not we're not trying to drive someone further down the whole.

It was really beautiful said. Yeah, because I don't think we've talked about that, but I do feel like that was always something that we internally as one more voice saying and something that I was saying and episode eight of like, okay, well, someone that walked in similar shoes, I've made these decisions. Let's be fair to it. And it's hard when you know that they're alive, but knowing that it could it still exists in a different and not shame a woman for going back a second time.

And in fact, that there are reality is real. So it was a hard, it's it's a hard show. You guys have done an incredible job.

Thank you. Thank you. Really balancing all the lies and realities at once. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us. Andrea, this has been such a wonderful conversation. And of course, thanks to you Clayton. It's been really fun being in at South by Southwest with I hurt with you guys this weekend. So Andrea, tell us where we can find betrayal. Yeah, you can get it on the I heart radio app. You can also subscribe through Apple True Crime Plus. You can get it to the Apple podcast or wherever you got your podcasts.

“Hey there, this is Josh from stuff you should know with a message that could change your life. The stuff you should know, think spring podcast playlist is available now.”

Whether spring is sprung in your neck of the wood yet or not. The stuff you should know, think spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on get outside and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the stuff you should know, think spring playlist on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go. Our I heart radio musical words are coming back. There's the March 26 live on Fox. Watch as we honor the biggest stars from all genres of music that you love listening to all year long on your favorite I heart radio station and the I heart radio app hosted by ludicrous.

I kind of word recipient, John Melancham Innovator, word recipient. My name is Cyrus with performances by Alex Warren. Hey, Lani. Lani will say. The depressed way TLC and in vote. Plus Taylor Swift to make their first award show appearance this year. I also gold medal Olympian Alyssa Liu, Neo Nicole Shersinger, Nikki Glaser, Sumber, Wiser, and more. On Fox Thursday, March 26th, 78th, 7th Central.

And listen that I heart radio stations across America and the free I heart app. The people was up with us up. It's Quest Love.

So recently, I had the incredible opportunity to have a real conversation with actress and producer.

Jamie Lee Curtis from routines to recovery, true lies, and a certain German Jackson music video.

I am so happy that I'm that head bitch and charge at 67 that I have the perspective that I have at my age.

“To really be able to put all of this into context.”

Listen to the Quest Love Show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, Bachelor Star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins.

But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.

“You doctorate this particular test twice in selling, correct?”

I doctorate the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.

“Two more men who'd been through the same thing.”

Greg Olespie and Michael Manchini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura Scott State Police.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you go. Your podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.