The State of the Housing Market and Why Real Estate Is Not AI-Proof with Jason Oppenheim

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That is the question on everyone's mind.

Jason Oppenheim has the answer. He is, of course, the real estate agent, broker, founder, extraordinary of the Oppenheim group. The luxury real estate brokerage that's covered in Netflix's hit show selling sunset.

“Even I think that Jason is a reality star first, but I can confirm after spending a couple”

of hours with him that he is definitely a real estate fanatic way before he's a reality TV star. He talks about how AI is changing real estate investments. A humanoid will be replacing lower-end real estate agent. Whether real estate is a good investment right now.

It's a 90% of my client would have been better off renting for the last 10 years than buy. There's so many hotcakes. I'm Nicole Laffin. The only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand.

It's time for some money reality.

Jason Oppenheim, welcome to Money Rehab.

Nice to be here. It's great to have you here. There's so much to get into. Obviously everybody probably asks you a question that I imagine you're going to be annoyed with me asking, but is it a buyer's market?

Oh, no, that's not the question that I know I'm going to get. It's usually, because you can give me some advice on whatever, like there's some interesting intelligent nugget that I have that's going to change their financial future. So now this is an easier and much better question. Yes, it is.

It's a buyer's market. But you have to say that. Why? Because you're in the business of selling, real estate.

“Well, I prefer it to be a seller's market, honestly, if I could choose.”

And I prefer it to have that as my answer, too. Yeah, I think I probably have more listings than buyers, although it's probably pretty close to 50, 50. As a brokerage, I think we have more listings than buyers, so a seller's market would be beneficial for me.

I also own a bunch of real estate, so a sell market would be significantly beneficial for me. It happens to be a buyer's market. But you're talking about California specifically, or in general? Sure.

I mean, I think overall, even nationally, it's a buyer's market, but specifically in LA. It's a buyer. We've had a rough time in LA. The markets had a really rough time. The mansion tax kind of crushed development.

Explain what that is. As if everyone take a shot. I bet there's people there to take a shot when I say mansion tax. Yes. Right, you know, you've got just build costs or exceptionally high care and cost, exceptionally

high. You've got not a lot of buyers out there. You've got more sellers and more supply than you do buyers significantly more. And you've got a lot of wealthy people leaving LA. A lot.

I mean, it means robes. So that's probably the biggest thing, it's just a lot of wealthy people leaving LA. Explain if somebody doesn't realize what the mansion tax is. The larger issue, the larger issue is a lot of people, a lot of the wealthy people leaving LA.

And people, you know, there's a lot of people who just, oh, we don't need the wealthy here. We don't like them. Well, sure, you can hate on the wealthy all you want, but they pay the taxes. So a lot of the people that don't care for the wealthy do care for social services. And the wealthy pay for all the social services.

They pay for the education, you know, roads. They pay for the, you know, you want money to go to the homeless and you want money to go to, you know, babysitting kids, I forget I don't know if money comes out.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you drop them off it. There's like programs for gay care.

Yeah.

And their programs for babysitting programs would be amazing.

They're there. They're out there. Yes. And so I just think the reason that most people have laughed are, you know, it's been a rough few years.

I mean, I started with COVID.

“And I think the biggest reason is that people don't have to be in LA to work.”

And this isn't, by the way, not just happening in LA. I mean, it's happening all over the world. All large cities are losing their wealth, London. Obviously, LA in New York, Chicago, I mean, you name the big city and it's just not doing really well.

Big cities are having probably the toughest few years they've had in decades. So where do you that? Well, you go to where everyone else is going if you want. I'm not going anywhere, but a lot of people are going to, I mean, it depends where you live.

If you're live in London, you know, you don't like the taxes, you don't like the big

government, you don't like the crime and other things. So you go to Dubai. You're interested enough, a lot of people from under come in here. And taxes are really high in England. I'd say Dubai is the biggest draw for London for LA, the biggest draw is probably Texas

and Florida. There's a few others, Tennessee, Georgia, Carolina, Nevada, but mostly Texas and Florida, they're getting the benefit of all the droves of wealthy people leaving California. But, New York. Then do you worry that there's so much room to expand in those places?

Like, everybody's going on. I wouldn't buy real estate there. Why not? Because of what you just said, I don't buy, I wouldn't buy real estate anywhere where there's no supply constraint.

Miami, there's no supply constraint. Not for condos, for houses in Miami. Because you can go up, there's no supply, yeah, exactly. So in both cases, Nashville, you can go out, Austin, you can go out, you're exactly right in Miami, you can go up.

Now, that's where the baggage can go up and out, so you're screwed. Um, yeah, I wouldn't buy a house in Miami, I mean, sorry, I wouldn't buy a condo in Miami because there's no supply constraint. I think a house in Miami is better investment because land is not plentiful in Miami. Okay, so dig deep and give us a tip that will change people's financial life.

Okay, I would say, I'm a big believer that AI's going to change everything. Everything. I'd love to even get into it to some degree.

“But if I were to focus on an investment strategy, I'd say you need to focus on what”

is it that AI can't produce. You certainly don't want to be investing in goods and services because AI will be very deflationary with respect to the offering of services in the production of goods. I mean, robots will be building robots that will be building goods. I mean, I knew cars not going to be a good investment.

And anything, any product's not going to be a good investment. I would probably invest in things that AI can't produce land. It's probably the most obvious. Houses will eventually be produced by AI and robotics, but that's a long way away. So I think housing is still probably going to maintain its value significantly better than

most of their assets. It'd be fab houses aren't there yet. No, no, not in major cities. I mean, you could potentially start doing prefabs and like outside of Vegas somewhere. But we've got way too much regulation and bureaucracy in LA.

They're never going to allow prefab.

So the other structural plumbing, all that stuff is never going to work. So don't do it. I don't see prefab ever coming to big cities. I've never believed the three all that bullshit. I don't ever think that's coming in.

I've been hearing about that since I was a kid and I just don't think there's any real viable. Now, to solve like the homeless problem or something like that, yes, if you change a lot of building codes, yes, I think it's not a bad idea. But in terms of a real answer to housing, no.

But as well as a comment for you, right, only. Yes, and no, not really. I'm pretty insulated, luckily. Okay, maybe you, but other real estate agents are largely insulated. And I would say for a long time, as particularly luxury real estate agents, because AI

will be very helpful to us. And I think it will replace the kind of tertiary jobs around real estate. You know, you're not going to have a, it's going to replace civil engineers and architects and designers and praisers, videographers, you know, it's going to replace a lot of that. But I don't think it's going to replace the luxury real estate agent for a long time.

We, interestingly, our job is, is very nuanced and also it's both physical and intellectual.

“The physical aspects of just, you know, yeah, you have to put your little sign up.”

Yeah. House and down. Yeah, that's it. That's all we do. So I got these arms just carrying just all those signs every day.

I think we're safe for, for a good 10 to 20 years. But we're, one of the, I think, lucky professions in that regard. Let's take us out of fancy land and come down to earth and, you know, not in the realist luxury real estate market. These sites that allow you to list your house.

So those have been around forever as well. You're not scared. No, I'm really believe that that, that, that real estate agents are largely insulated from any near-term

you know, skillful that we did. It's just, we are lucky that, that we're such a unique combination of multifaceted intellect and physical labor that it's just going to be very hard to replace. I mean, just like a plumber is going to be extremely hard to replace in an electrician. They're, they're on the, they'll last on the ladder, they're, they're the highest wrong

of the ladder. A ladder is disappearing, you know, it's, it's going to replace wrong after wrong. But luckily, real estate agents, particularly luxuries, but still just regular real estate agents. I think they'll get replaced first. If you're selling a 400,000-hour track-to-home in Nevada, more likely to get replaced

than selling, you know, eight to 20 million dollar homes in, you know, nuanced locations in Southern California. So that 400,000 dollar house, you could have a virtual tour, right, or you can get--

You always have virtual tours, but, but real estate is still a human experience.

You still want to walk that house, you still want to look at the finishes, you still want to touch it, you still want to understand the scale and the flow and the foreband and the yard and the views and the street. It's, it's a, it's a very tactile experience. And I just think that is, it's going to be hard to replace the real estate agent.

First of all, you're going to need robotics, right, because you're going to have to still do open houses and walk people through a property and open the doors and turn the lights on. So there's, you know, it's clean up the dog poop. There's still, fluff the pillars.

You're still going to. Jason, you're not going to have to. I clean up dog poop. There's no way. Well, I also have a dog.

I clean up-- Yeah, absolutely.

If I go to a house and there's dog poop, I clean the dog poop up.

You're not too big. I don't have any. Go. Especially when it comes to a presentation. No, I'll get to work.

So you don't see a day where there's humanoids walking around. Absolutely. Humanoids will be replacing lower-end real estate agent probably in 10 to 15 years.

“I think low-grade real estate agents-- and I'm guessing at this point.”

But I'd say, you know, we got a couple decades left before we're-- listen, at some point, there is no work. Work is a fetish. Work is going to be an elective, you know, it's going to be-- For everybody.

For everybody. Yeah. I don't see humans working in 20 plus years. Absolutely not.

I'll see anyone working in 20 years.

But are we going to be doing it? We're going to have to re-describe what it means to be human. What it means to have purpose. We're going to get purpose from family, from friendship, from relationship, from eating, hanging out with friends, reading-- they'll be intellectual pursuits.

I mean, we're going to have to redefine where we get our purpose. It's not going to be coming from work anymore. And that's a-- you know, it was a human construct that we get purpose from work. It's not like some innate thing to largely.

“And I think capitalism is going to be ingrained in us to where we do derive a lot of”

purpose from work I certainly do. It will be a very hard transition to start figuring out how to get purpose elsewhere to be honest. But it's certainly possible, you know, back in tribal times we weren't really getting as much purpose from work as we do today.

I mean, that's more of a social construct of a result of capitalism. So I think we'll be able to redefine that-- you're getting some Elon cool, you'll see. How are you going to afford to live then? Well, be very inexpensive to live.

I mean, because robots will be providing all the services in product. I mean, it's just going to be capex. It's going to be the cost of everything. I mean, the cost of are going to go down astronomically. I think whatever cost $100 a day will cost five bucks in 20 years.

It'll be almost free. The food, everyone will have their own Michelin Starship growing food will be by done by robotics. The transportation of food will be done by robotics. I mean, give me an industry and it will be done by superhuman intelligence and robotics.

There's no-- there's nothing that humans are better at than a superhuman intelligent robot. I mean, it's going to be faster, stronger, smarter. I mean, humans are not going to be able to compete. There's no work and there's no money.

You know, there probably won't be money in 50 plus years. But that's now we're going way down the road. We'll still have some form of currency. It'll probably end up being more energy. It'll be the currency that we'll be looking at in 50 years, not so much money.

And where are we going to live? Earth? But we'll probably be exploring other-- we'll probably be exploring the moon. I'm sure that there'll be opportunities to live on other planets. Mars will be tough, but the moon is-- I mean, I don't know why we'll need to leave Earth.

But we will certainly be exploring other-- the solar system for sure. And there'll be opportunities for people to live off Earth if you want. Sounds so fun.

“So how long do you think the real estate agent life is?”

Again, no one's working in 20 years. So the top-wrong of the ladder, the last wrong to disappear in be replaced by AI and robotics, will probably be around 20 years, I'm guessing. And that's going to be you. You're going to be like--

No, no.

But I do believe that Rails agents are near the top-wrongs in the ladder for sure. I mean, lower-wrong's lawyers accountants, they're gone in five years. I mean, I'm already replacing my lawyer with-- which yet-- well, no, but Gemini deep thing. I just read all of my onboarding documents.

I'm going through all of my insurance stack, everything with deep-think Gemini. And it's creating 50 times-- what I'm getting-- I'm redoing my state planning with it as well. It's giving me hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of legal work in a day. I mean, there's-- I get research reports.

I literally type in like the most nuanced question. And then Gemini deep research will give me-- within about 15 minutes it takes-- on a 10-page research report on my specific issue with about 80 citations. It would take a cadre of lawyers a month, I mean, I am a lawyer.

I mean, I've done this. Yeah, I was about to say in your previous life, people don't realize what a high-tune pollutant-powered lawyer you were working on these big AMD and Ron Cases. So are you able to feed it the right prompt?

Prompting is what is the most important thing.

“And so you have to be intelligent enough-- so far, right now,”

you have to be intelligent enough to be able to prompt it. That's the difficult. Can I? I told you it was going to happen. Can you put your dirty, your dirty--

They're not that dirty. It is on my mind. Maybe the bottom. I can't see the bottom of the size of the plane. I'll put it up.

Yeah, make me, we're going to get comfortable. OK. So into the future where there's no work, there's no money, there's no real estate agents, there's no-- Work will be an elective.

There'll still be work. People will still want to-- there'll still be a desire to have a baseball bat made by human.

There'll still be old people that want their accountant to be human.

I mean, it'll still be kind of fetishy work, but it won't be necessary work. But isn't that the definition of a utopia anyway? I mean, isn't any utopian definition really not have required work?

That's so interesting that you said utopia, because I was going to say dystopian future. Let me push back on that. I mean, most definitions of a dystopian future would largely involve labor camps and forced labor,

whereas most definitions of a utopian society would be elective work and not required work. So I would argue that we're headed more towards a utopian future than a dystopian. OK, and what do we do until that?

You're investing at sounds like in AI? I mean, what are we doing? We're watching probably the most exciting 15 years in a history of human civilization. Maybe even Earth.

I mean, we've been around for billions of years.

I mean, we are literally, I think, as we get into AI and superhuman intelligence, we're going to see the most interesting exciting. And anxiety producing, I mean, it's not all positive,

“but I think we're about to just be a fly on the wall”

and watch this. And it's going to be the most interesting movie you've ever seen. Yeah, it's so anxiety producing. It doesn't have to be-- I'm sure that was like, oh, the Alexis is going

to kill you a lot, so funny. This is not-- Oh, well. Well, I also think there's a good 20% chance that AI wiped us out.

But I-- And that's not dystopian. That is. But I am choosing to be an optimist about AI. At the end of the day, whatever, you're

not going to stop it anyway. We're not going to stop AI. And we can't, because we need to be the leaders. We're not going to let China dominate AI and be the world dominant force.

I'd rather than US do it. If there's any country on planet Earth, there's people that have their problems with the United States, but you name another country that you'd rather be in control besides the United States.

I'll take the United States. And so we need to keep going. So how does this change your investment strategy over the next couple of years? I heard you really talk about and get into treasuries,

30-year treasuries? That's true.

“Because I think that's incredibly deflationary.”

I will give you, in example, deflation occurs when people expect prices to go down. And so they won't spend money. You're not going to buy a car for $50,000 today. If you think it'll be $40,000 next year

and $30,000 the year after that. Well, you might. Fine. But most people won't, right? Because they'll though wait.

And so they won't spend. And so the Fed will need to lower rates to encourage people to spend. It may get to a point. I wouldn't be surprised if we get to a point

where you're getting, instead of paying you interest for your money to be at their bank, you're getting charged a fee for the money to be-- we could have negative inflation and negative interest rates.

deflationary in goods and services.

And the Fed's going to have to chase that by lowering rate. It's not going to happen necessarily this year. But I think we're going to start seeing enormous job losses. And that's probably the biggest problem.

And by the way, that is counter deflationary. Because I think we will then need to pay UBI will need to be offering a universal-- I wouldn't even say basic. I mean, it could be high income.

It could be a service income. But also, that'll be a lot less expensive, too. I mean, we'll give robots. I mean, homeless people, instead of spending $100,000 a year, like we're doing now, you can get a robot for $30,000

at what we'll cook, clean, and do many other things for people to provide services for them. So I'm generally optimistic.

“I think the quality of life is for a lot of people”

is going to go way up, almost everyone. I really think that a person who's a poor person today in 10 or 15 years will be living like a wealthy person. Or at least a wealthy person today. I actually think the quality of life will come together.

I think the bottom is going to benefit the most. Because look at, I can get most of things I want anyway. Right now, if I want a Michelin star chef, and I don't have it here, I'm saying a person with money can get most of things they want right now.

But in 10 or 15 years, a person without that much money is going to have a maid, someone watching their car, someone doing their dishes, someone cooking for them, that someone that's going to be able to handle their health care largely, babysit their kids.

I mean, that quality of life is going to raise people's quality of life. I can afford that stuff right now, but it'll be, that will be, instead of costing me for all that stuff, it could cost me maybe $4,500 to get all that stuff all day long. That could cost in 10 years, I could cost $30,000.

Are you first in line for a roba?

Not first, because I don't want to get it right now, with an early generation roba.

“But when they're able to clean and do dishes”

and wash my car and cook for me as the vet, I mean, the quality of what they're going to be able to do is going to be a 10. I mean, they're going to be the, that my roba in five years will be the best chef on planet earth.

There's no human that will be able to cook as well as my roba. So I will have the best chef in the world. You'll have the best chef in the world. It'll be amazing. It'll be a therapist, it'll be a chef.

It'll clean my house better than any maid could ever clean my house. It'll answer every question I have, it'll, it'll do everything. - So how are you putting your money where your mouth is around? - Well, I'm heavily invested in Tesla and long-term bonds.

But listen, nobody knows, but I mean, I'm definitely betting on deflation and I'm betting on some of these AI companies doing quite well. Tesla's building robotics and it has artificial intelligence and there's a relationship to space and space

is going to be the new frontier for energy. I mean, energy is going to be money. And we're going to be launching data centers off of the moon in 20 years. I mean, we're not going to be getting energy from the sun.

And it's probably going to be coming from swarms of satellites, collecting that and then microwaving it back to Earth. No, I sound crazy, but it's going to happen. - I'm into it. - But it's going to happen.

- Is there a you still big on the leverage treachery's, too, or are you still in the lab? - Yeah, I'm still in lab. It's not doing well right now because of the war and oil prices. But yeah, in the long term,

it does TLT, which is a non-levered to the TMF.

“Actually, I think it's a great time to get in it now”

because I think the war has caused some inflation with oil. So it's like $35 a share. I mean, honestly, I think it'll be double within a couple of years, I really do. - What are you buying now?

- Well, I'm buying a condo for myself, but not as an investment. I'm kind of tapped out on real estate. I own a lot of real estate. I'm not really buying any more LA and Newport Beach.

- That's where your condo is going to be. - Well, I'll be living between Newport Beach and LA. I'm a house in Newport Beach, and I have a condo and LA. I'll be going back and forth.

I don't think that I would be investing in real estate right now. You can't make any money in LA 'cause anything I'd be investing in

would be eventually over $5 million.

A mansion tax would just wipe out too much profit. Also, I don't see the market going up considerably over the next few years. So I'm not really buying real estate. - Well, there's a bunch of headlines

that I know you love all these headlines. - Well, there are those, they're all right. Just that there's a new crisis housing bubble going on. - No, no. - Because sales have been down like a half percent.

- Wait, so there's a thing that there's a bubble and that it's gonna burst. I mean, prices suck, prices have been in the gutter for like five years. - LA real estate, luxury real estate markets down

over the last 400 K for median. - Well, I can't speak so much for the national average. I don't do real estate in the old cross country, but LA luxury real estate market. We're selling houses now that for the same price

Then that's common right now.

I mean, luxury real estate market is basically

at where it was eight to 10 years ago. No growth. That's terrible. I mean, it's not a bubble. It's the opposite.

- It's a new type of bubble where you're not making money. - Well, I don't understand that definition of bubble. - Crisis. - I thought a bubble was when somebody's in a pub. - So there's a big--

“- No, no, no, then I think you're not using their term bubble”

in a way that we hear about it in real estate. Bubble is something that's going to pop and then prices are going to go down. - And that's not going to happen. - No, because prices suck right now.

- What about an affordability crisis? What kind of crisis are we in? - I mean, this is not going to be popular,

but we're not in an affordability crisis.

In the way that you would normally define affordability. Everyone loves complaining about being in an affordability crisis. And yes, we've had an high interest rate crisis in an inflation crisis, so to speak, not anymore. I mean, now inflation's in the twos.

The idea that prices are still going up is nonsense. In CPI, every acronym that measures inflation is in the twos. That's historically pretty average. So inflation is up. - Yeah, so it's two to three.

So we're closer to two than we are. Who cares, we're in the two to three. So inflation is no longer a concern. And like I said, I'm a big believer in deflation coming out. But we've had a lot of inflation in the last few years.

When people talk about affordability, they should be talking about rent, not purchase. Because purchase price has everything to do with interest rates. So it's nonsense to say we have an affordability crisis if you're talking about interest rates.

You could say we have an interest rates or up. Sure, to say that an affordability crisis is directly related to interest rates, then when interest rates go down in a few years and we fix the affordability crisis,

that's nonsense, that definition is stupid. I don't think it has to do with interest rates. I think it has to do with income. - No, incomes have been going up. - No, no, no, no. - considerably on average

of the last few years. - No, no, the income gap has increased. - Well, income gap is not an affordability. - It isn't to do with affordable. - It isn't to do with affordable. - It reacts to your income to get a house and out six acts.

- That's because of interest rates. That's an interest rate problem, not an affordable. - It's also a wage problem when you're thinking about rentals. - No, it's not. - Let me get into rentals. - You would have a single digit,

increases in wages but double digit for rent. - Rentals are not higher, I will square right now. I will do the unpopular and I will teach people why they're wrong and all the comments come in. You can hate me as much as you want.

But let's put aside purchasing, okay? Because obviously when interest rates are high, it's gonna take more of your income to purchase a house. That's an interest rate problem. It's an affordability problem.

A affordability, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna, it should be about rent, okay? Because that's not related to interest rates. If you do an analysis of what it costs to rent a 1000 and I've done this deep dive.

So just, you can do this. - I heard you and your brothers spent 30 minutes with each other, you're right. - So encourage people to do it on their own. If you look at what it costs in the similar location

over the last 75 years, pick a, I don't know, a location. And I will just say Merced or Pasadena. I don't give a shit or location, it doesn't really matter.

“But it's important that you apply apples to apples.”

If you pick a location and you track the cost of renting a 1000 square foot to bedroom with similar amenities over the last 75 years, it has unbelievably similarly tracked the percentage of median income over the last 75 years.

Within 1%. It made its astronomically close over a 75 year term. So there's no affordability crisis in that sense. It costs the same. Now, why does it feel like there's an affordability crisis

for a multitude of different reasons? Why? Yeah, it's purchasing is becoming astronomically more expensive because of interest rates. It's not affordability is interest rates.

- But interest rates used to be 15 or 20%. - I only, my only point is it doesn't do the discussion of service. If you call a high interest rate environment on affordability crisis, it's not.

I mean, you're not moving the ball for it because what are you fix in affordability crisis when interest rates go down? No, affordability should be about rents. It should be about the cost of goods

that you need to buy and then rents.

“If you want to talk about the purchase of house,”

I agree, it's more expensive because it interest rates. - Everyone knows that.

- 26% of first-time home buyers in the market

versus historically like 40%. - I just want to divorce the definition of affordability to purchasing a house because I consider that solely related to interest rates. So let's put that aside.

Yes, interest rates are two to three times higher. They were five years ago. So the cost is going to be significantly higher.

it's going to cost a lot less of your income. I don't think we should attach the word affordability to that. I really want to focus on rents.

“So here's why people think that rents have gone up”

because they're not applying apples to apples. They go, oh, my parents lived on, we're making this and they lived in this apartment and they could afford it and I could have, yes, I bet you that your parents lived in an apartment

that you wouldn't be willing to live in. I bet your parents' apartment was 700 square feet. I bet you that it didn't have a pool. I bet you that it didn't have appliances. I bet you didn't have a washer and dryer.

I bet you that it didn't, wasn't in the middle of town. I wasn't in West Hollywood as probably out in like, my parents lived in a place in sub-astipal. Nobody knows where that is, exactly right.

It was two hours away. So people don't compare apples to apples. What people say is, oh, well, I want to live in a two bedroom that's new and has all these appliances and has a gym

and has a pool and it's located in the middle of West Hollywood. By the way, it's 1800 square feet and it's 2800 dollars, that's a lot of money. Yes, if you compare that to what your parents lived in, that's way more, it's gonna cost you a lot more

of your income, but the size of apartments has gone up astronomically over the last 30 years. So we're not comparing apples to apples anymore. What you get when you get an apartment has you're getting a lot more services and amenities

than you ever did before, because they're just offering more saunas and pools and appliances. Sure, I mean, sometimes. But security, whatever, we become fancier,

our demands have become higher. And more importantly, people want to, up until the last few years, have been wanting to live in the city where things are more expensive.

- Go to school. - 20 years ago, what is it? - 20 years ago, 50 years ago, people weren't, the percentage of people living in the city is with much less.

So cost of rentals was less. My only point here is that if you do compare apples to apples and you do a fair analysis of what it would cost of what your parents were living in. And you take that 1,000 square foot apartment

with the same amenities in the same location. It costs the same amount of a percentage of your income. - I'm super surprised that you say this because people come for me so hard when I say that renting is not throwing away money.

- It's not at all.

I never understood that argument that buying in,

first of all, renting is, I would argue, is throwing away less money than buying. - Well, because you throw away money somewhere, you give the thing here. - Yeah, you either give it to interest

or you give it to your landlord. I don't think it, why don't you just, why don't you just call the bank president your landlord and then, and then it's the same thing. It's just, it doesn't make sense.

I've never understood that throwing away money. I really don't. In fact, when you buy, you are tied down. So you actually have less, so you have less physical mobility

“because if you want to move when you're renting,”

you don't have commissions, you don't have transfer taxes, you don't have to move all the furniture and goods. I mean, you'd be renting a furnished place. You're much more mobile.

That is inherently valuable. - Yeah, yeah, and different. - And it cost less to rent right now than it does to buy because interest rates are higher.

So, yeah, I never understood that.

I'm a big believer in renting. There's a psychological pride of ownership, but if you get it, if you just look at it financially, no, renting makes more sense than buying. And always has, unless you think that the market

is going to appreciate and then buying makes more sense. That's the only reason that you would buy from a purely financial perspective is if you want to leverage your loan because you think that there's gonna be market appreciation.

And historically, there has been market appreciation. - But not as much as the stock market. - You would be better off buying a house if you think that real estate is going to appreciate even five percent a year.

Even if you thought the stock market was gonna appreciate seven percent a year. And the real estate was only gonna appreciate five percent a year. Then you're better off buying. There are a lot of people.

I would say just about everyone.

I'd say 90 percent of my clients would have been better off

renting for the last 10 years than buying. - Why? - Because they are making no money because the market's back to where it was eight, 10 years ago and they didn't have the mobility. They had all the problems with fixing up the house

and the stress of fixing up the house. And they didn't, and they have to pay commissions to me. They have to pay property taxes. They have to pay mansion tax. So they would have been better off renting for the last eight years.

And that's just a fact, because it's a financial fact. - It's crazy that you're saying that as a real estate guy. - Well, because I actually wanted to say that. - I said they're not with their feet on the table but arguing with me how wrong I was.

- No, you're not wrong at all.

“- A lot of, I think a lot of real estate agents”

was pushed the narrative that they think benefits that.

- But you don't say this stuff on selling sunset.

- Well, we don't get into this stuff on sunset. - Demorizing buying houses. - Well, there's something very glamorous and sexy and rewarding and fun about buying a house. But I'm just talking to you financially.

- Can we change some of that? - I've made a lot of money buying homes and renting them out long-term. I'm not suggesting that you can't make a lot of money in real estate.

But if you don't think the market's going to appreciate then you're better off renting. And I don't think the market's going to appreciate anytime soon and it certainly hasn't been appreciating the last few years.

So for the last few years, especially when in a high interest rate environment, it usually makes sense to rent. I mean, I've been renting for the last three years. - Can we have a spin-off of the selling sense

that's been off?

- Renting sense, isn't it?

- Yes, fine. It might not get as many viewers, but okay. - I mean, why does it get so many viewers? We've had Emma here, we've had Mary here. Like, these women are smoking hot.

Obviously not all the agents that you hire are Emma. But like, oh my God, is she real? - Yeah, there's a lot of, Emma's stunning, and there are a lot of stunningly beautiful women at the brokerage on and off the show.

The brokerage, I think loads of because of the show has attracted tons of women. We're like, 85% women. We started a commercial division that is so far largely men, although I really did tell like,

I would like to bring in a lot of female commercial agents. But yeah, we're just a very female driven brokerage, which is fun, I think it's great. - Oh, poly was here too. Like, next level, like, on a reagent.

- Oh, yeah, no.

“- Do you think, though, honestly, in sales being attractive?”

- Of course, of course, being attractive, I think being attractive probably helps in 99% of professions. - Do you think it will continue for how many more seasons? You guys are on nine?

- 10 will be the next one. We've had nine, nine came out. Am I hoping an expectation is a lot more seasons? Honestly, I enjoy it. And I don't take it for granted, either.

You know, I really, it's done so much for me. It's done so much for the business. I love it. I really do love it. I've really just come to love it

and appreciate it, the more and more. - It looks like you guys are having fun. - Most of the time, most of the time. I mean, the drama is taxing, truly. - Is it a real drama though?

- Yeah, yeah, like a real. - No, unfortunately, it's all real. And that's what's taxing, but, and it's stressful. But I have kind of allowed myself to not get is caught up and not feel that I need to solve problems

and I've come to realize that what I think is stressful today will end up being okay in six months. And it usually is. So I'm just, I'm gonna resign to just a more, like, lays a fair approach to it and it's really worked.

Trying to use financial terms for you. - Oh, thank you so much. Is Christine coming back, Christine Quinn? - I can't, you know, I can't like confirm anything. - Just between us.

- Oh, is it just between us? (laughs) - I respect my contractual obligations. - I appreciate that. - Where are you on your scale of happiness?

I've heard you talk about checking in on a scale of 1910? - Yeah, it varies. I say I float between a seven and a nine, you know, which is great. I'm gonna put a great place.

“I mean, honestly, everything in my life is amazing.”

I have like an appreciation list in my phone and I try to go through and remind myself 'cause a lot of happiness is just your perception and your appreciation. I mean, I was really happy.

I've been really happy most of my life, but let's say when I was 20, I was a really happy guy when I was 20. I didn't know that much money. I was driving like an old 1969 Camaro

that I kind of built myself. I was eating at the Roach Coach, like the little burritos and splitting a subway sandwiches with my brother and wearing a wife beater and working on my car and a waiter with my buddies

at McRoyney Grill. And I was really happy, really happy. I don't know if I'm any happier today than I was then. So, I think happiness is, no, it doesn't mean that like...

- So money and happiness? - Money and happiness. - Well, it does help a lot. It does help a lot because it removes the financial stress. I didn't have financial stress back then 'cause I didn't have any needs.

Not needing things, not wanting things

and not needing things is really powerful.

And yeah, of course money, you're more likely to be happy if you have money, but it doesn't, you can't just directly buy it. It certainly helps. You can put you in the right environment to be happy,

but there are a lot on a happy wealthy people. And there are a lot of really happy people that aren't wealthy.

“Yeah, I think it's more a question of appreciating”

your circumstances. I mean, honestly, I have great friends

with great people and I've got a healthy family.

And I'm healthy. - Is that what's on your list?

“- Yeah, I mean, health is the biggest one.”

I mean, really, if you are having a good day, if you wake up healthy and the people that you love are healthy. And that's just a, you're starting your day off really, really, really well. And you're not in like some labor camp

or you know, some suppressed society. If you wake up in California under the sun and you're healthy, I mean, that's a nine. You're at least a nine right there. And if you don't see that, then that's on you.

- I mean, you just had your car stolen from your... - I did have my costume. - Did that bring you down? - No. No, I don't get unhappy over material things.

I get, material things can make me happy. It don't make me unhappy. So if I buy something and it makes my roles noise made me happy, when I got stolen, I didn't want unhappy.

Yeah, it's just, it's either up or even, I think, on material things. It's not, I don't get super attached. I mean, it's a car. - But you spend, like you're a spender.

- Well, they're gonna, I haven't insurance for it. Otherwise, I would be much more unhappy. - Generally, outside of even the car. - Oh yeah, money for me is meant to be spent. - Yeah.

- Like, how much of what you're bringing in to you spend, or do you just lie? - No, I say, I can't, I would have a hard time spending everything I made. So I spend a lot and I still, you know, my net worth goes up.

Maybe not this year 'cause my stocks are getting shallacked, but yeah, generally, I don't stress about money, and I certainly don't stress about spending things. Also, spending, you know, I don't, you don't lose all the money when you spend it.

You buy a nice watch or you buy a nice car. You don't lose all of it. I don't look at buying a Rolls Royce for example, spending four or five hundred thousand dollars. I look at it as spending a hundred thousand dollars.

'Cause I'll sell it and I'll lose a hundred thousand dollars. I don't look, you know, if I buy a watch for a hundred grand, I don't look at spending a hundred grand. I look at spending 20 grand. I'll probably lose 20 grand on it.

“- If you had kids, would you think about it differently?”

- Yeah, to some degree. I don't know if I would change that much. I still want to take care of myself. - I have enough money to take care of my kids and do the things I want to make me happy.

- Do you have a number like enough you number? - Oh, my, my, after you number was passed a long time ago. I mean, when I just, it wasn't that long ago that I was living in an apartment with my buddy. Maybe this was actually, this might probably 10 or 15 years ago.

15 years ago. And we were thinking if we could each make $10,000 a month, then we made it. I mean, that's just, that's a high quality life. That was my FU was $10,000 a month.

$120,000 a year, $10,000 a month. We decided that that was FU, I'm good. That my, I'm living a very good quality life at $10,000 a month. So, I mean, I passed my FU money quite a while ago.

- And you never changed it.

You never changed it. - No, I never, I'm not a goal. I'm not a financially goal-inted person. I want to just live a high quality life. Take care of my friends, take care of my family,

and do what I want to do. And I don't really have particular financial goals. Never had really, except for that one.

“That's honestly the only financial goal I think”

that I can remember having is the $10,000 a month. And so, everything else has been icing ever since. - Can we play our game called Secure the Bag? - Sure. You have to, you have to, you have to.

The light bag. - Get in there, pick a paper. - Have you ever been ghosted by someone who owes you money? - Have you ever lent somebody? - Oh yeah, of what, dozens of people money.

There are people when you lend them money that you think you may or may not get it back.

I would never lend money to anyone,

if I didn't, if I wasn't okay, not getting it back. And in 90% of cases I get it back, 'cause there's a reason why I'm lending it, and I'm more than happy to do it, and it's fine. There are instances where I lent money to people

that I was pretty sure I wasn't gonna get it back, and that's happened, and that's never bothered me at all. So, I wouldn't say ghosted. I wouldn't say ghosted, because I wouldn't, I'm not gonna chase someone down,

if they can't pick me back, then I'm just gonna take that out. And I should have known that, going in. - Yeah. - So I wouldn't say they'd ghost me, I don't even, you know. - Maybe this is actually a good opportunity

to educate about how bonds work, because the risk you're the person or the country or the company, the more interest rate you get back, because there's more-- - That's a good point, the more risk, the more rewards.

- You wouldn't get it back. - But you're not charging interest rates, obviously, too. 90% of that time, no, but if it's like a structured business, it thing, then yes, but no, my friends and family should like that, obviously, no.

I have in a couple cases recently, I won't be specific, but let somebody to help them with a down payment,

but yeah, 90%. - Which is less than the bank. - Well, yeah, I'm just, I'm not really doing it for the 5%. But it's just that person, I'm not giving away free money because people should be understanding the cost of capital,

but yeah, I'm not trying to squeeze an extra 1 or 2% out of it. - Yeah, I mean, the adage is like, you lend a friend of mine. - I've lent clients money all the time. But I've protected it with a note,

and it's never not worked out.

In fact, I loan money, I mean, I've loaned my, and it clients will be dozens of times. We have a concierge service where we just front the money, inches free, then I don't even deal with the interest. They have a house, they have four million hours a house,

and they need 20,000 dollars for the work. I just pay for them, everything, and I get it back when it sells. - I'm gonna thank Jason, that's it.

“- I think that's a part of just being a luxury real estate agent,”

is just you can front the money and get the work done, and then you get it back. Never been burnt, not once. - I've never met a real estate agent. - Well, I think we're the only ones to do that.

- It wants to give me money, okay? - Yeah. Well, it's just, what am I going to charge you? No, it doesn't make sense. I just offer it to every single client.

Now, if a client has a $2,000 dollar house

and wants to do a $150,000 dollar remodel, no.

And I'm not interested in that. But if it's 20, I mean, we just finished a house up up in the Hollywood Hills area where it was even a wealthy guy, but I'm like, let me just, I'll do it all, and then we'll redo the, just probably 20, 30 grand,

staging, cleaning it up, fixing the pool, landscaping, painting, you know, whatever. And yeah, so we just-- - It's like an investment for-- - Yeah, yeah, I don't know why.

I'm going to get it back. I'm going to sell the house. If anything, it's more likely I sell the house.

“So it's kind of an investment in my own success.”

Yeah. - All right, so I'll hit you up. - If you want to sell your house, you can gladly hit me up. I will fix that your house up for you.

- Thank you so much. You'll clean the pool. We have a dog, so-- - If I, I prefer not to clean the pool, but if I'm about to show it, and there's poop,

I will clean the poop. Have you ever felt guilty for making more money than someone you love? - No. (laughing)

- Now plus I'm extremely generous with the people I love. So they love that I, and well, that I do well. And by the way, there's nothing more enjoyable with money than spending it on the people that you love. I find, I get no more happiness.

I don't think I've-- Well, I don't want to sound like I'm bragging, but I enjoy it very much.

What a cheap habit you'll never give up,

no matter how wealthy you are. Oh, my, well, ex-girlfriend now, but she still does this for me. Cooks me slops, which is my favorite meal. It's just a plate of rice with marinara sauce,

and then ground up meat, like ground up beef. And it's, I go over there like once a week, we watch a show together and she cooks me slops. I, if I got poor again, I'm not that mad at it 'cause I would just eat slops, like five nights.

- That's like your ramen. - Slops is so much better, try it. And you put some crushed red pepper on it. - I love it. - Oh my god, it's good.

She is almost annoyed at how often I ask for it, because that's all I want. So I want one, I go over there. And she's a good cook, but I just wanted to cook slops every time I go over there.

- My, she padded, I have so many. - I'll order, post-maids or doorbells, a lot, but like I love a bogo. - What's a bogo? - A buy one, get one, I love a bogo deal.

- Oh wow, if I saw a bogo, it would be a red flag for me that it's not good. - Interesting. - Yeah, you don't get quality in a bogo. I'm a quality guy, I'll pay.

- Okay, Mr. Slops guy. - Oh fair, that's fair, actually. But I do like, if I'm gonna get a steak, I'll, I'm not gonna get, well, a buy one steak, get one steak. - Sure, I don't know.

I had delicious bogo banana bread, so. - Can I just digress here and I was just gonna say the great weapon, banana bread. It's the best banana bread ever ahead of my life. - It was the bogo.

- Oh, come on, what is the bogo? - Well, now I'm eating my words. How did you get a free banana bread? - Oh, yeah, there's a special bogo. - Can we just tell the audience

that there's no better banana bread on planet earth, probably even in the solar system, or if you're not. - There's whipped honey butter with it. - Yes, I know, I go like probably twice a week to get it. - Well, if you go and I get it, ask for it to be extra,

well, I'm gonna push back on getting it to go. - Okay, because then you're gonna get it. - Because the best part about it is when it comes out warm and crisps. - It's warm because we live near a great white.

“- So you can't, no, you need to go to a great white”

and you need to get it fresh with the butter, literally the melting onto it and the crispy edges that are still, my brother and I literally fight to rip off the edges and eat the crisps. - The edges are delicious.

- And then all you see is that how come you're sitting in the house?

- I don't believe that it's like dintai fun. If you've got to go to dintai fun,

“you can't get that dumpling that's not perfectly hot”

although I did have dintai fun last night. But from postmates. But no, don't ruin the banana bread experience. Go get it in person when it comes out hot and crispy. I'm adamant about this, you can't, you can't do that.

- And you lost this argument. - But I did lose the argument. Have you ever googled your network? - Yeah. (laughing) - Yeah, of course, there's not a,

I don't think it's a wealthy thing. - What is it say? - 50 million. - Is that accurateish? - I guess so.

I guess it's reasonably accurate. Although the interesting thing is it's been at 50 million for like 10 years. I might do these people not think that I've ever made a dollar in the last 10 years. (laughing)

- It's really good. - Inflation? - Just put it in the treasure. - At least bacon inflation into my network. Honestly, it's weird.

- You? - No, never. Should we do it right now? - You're your network? - Yeah, never.

I don't think anyone cares. - Oh, I've googled myself a lot. I googled myself to see what articles were out there if I get caught, by TMZ years, I mean, I'll go out in the next day. Oh, I googled myself quite often,

just to kind of see what articles are out here. - It's kind of fun. - Does it upset you? - I don't get upset by-- - Like do you read comments?

- No, I don't read comments. That would probably upset me. I just don't read comments. - You never have. Or you've had to--

- Pretty much, I mean, in the last 10 years, there have been millions of comments probably, I imagine. About me or the show, whatever. No, maybe a couple dozen. I mean, maybe one time I got bored

and just looked real quick, but generally, no. - Do you have Google alerts set up? - No. - I have them, and then I-- - Oh, yes, I do.

- I do. - Yes, I do have a Google alert. I got an email. Yes, I do. - That's right, I do.

- That's a fashion. I'm gonna guess, so Morgan's Googling might not work right now, but I'm gonna guess that it's not out there, because nobody-- - Well, no, they'll all make it out, probably. I guess it'll say it's gonna say, like, two million.

- And yours is 50, okay? - No, I'm just saying you're-- - You're right. - That's exactly what I'm talking about. - Did you Google mine out?

- No, it's hard to work-- - I've Googled people's net worth. - And I was just like the-- - If you're successful, they're gonna just throw two million at you. - Yeah, it's not that accurate, but I do all the time. I got one, I know, especially clients, you know,

I'm like, oh, this football player, you know what's, let's say, what's his net worth. I mean, this is usually off. - Slightly suspicious that you guessed exactly what mine is. - Oh, no, it's just 'cause I've Googled a lot of people's net worth.

- Yeah.

- And it's always two million.

- Okay, you're done with the game. - No, I like this game.

“- Do you negotiate or do you get awkward and just pay?”

- That's interesting. - Like with contract cards? - Yeah, 90% time, I'm happy to pay for price because I think that that person's gonna appreciate the difference more than me.

That's kind of like a, you know, utilitarian approach. But if it's something meaningful, like if it's, if I'm buying the Rolls Royce, you know, and I want to try to negotiate $15,000, yes. I'm gonna negotiate the larger items.

I don't negotiate, you know, smaller things. - You can negotiate a Rolls Royce. - If you're buying it at a deal, yeah, you're buying it. Yeah, you can negotiate everything, really. When you buy a new card, you can negotiate it, yeah.

- But I thought that the sort of quota cars, like the Ferraris of the World are not negotiable 'cause there's-- - I mean, Rolls Royce was one year old and I bought it at the Beverly Hills dealership, and I looked online for a while

and compared pricing. And also, my insurance is gonna try to pay me out. And I'm gonna negotiate that. I'm gonna ask for more. I mean, on macro items, yeah, it's worth my time.

But if somebody is asking me for going to, you know, whatever I'm at at some store and they want like 150 bucks on them and I'm not gonna negotiate that. I want them to have their small business.

I'm never gonna negotiate small stuff.

But, and it's also depending on the business. If it's a small business, I'm never gonna negotiate. It's a valet, but you don't negotiate valet. Well, yeah, you do. Sometimes I pull up in front

and they're like, oh, 50 bucks to park up here, I'm like, okay. You know, I'm not gonna say, oh, 40 bucks. But, you know, he'll use that money better than I will. But larger things with larger corporations, 100% wealthy people and corporations I'm gonna negotiate against them.

For sure, they don't need the money anymore than I do. - Do you feel like it's sport like to win? - No, I just wanna feel like I'm getting a fair prize. I'm not, it's not a sport for me. - I just wanna--

- Just want a sport for me. - I only cardio, I just want it. I just wanna be treated fairly. - What's the most expensive mistake I haven't made that many.

- You don't make mistakes. - You don't make mistakes. - I don't make mistakes at often. - No. - What?

“- I think I don't really make mistakes that often.”

I can't even think of a big mistake that I've made. Socially or professionally or financially. Really, I mean, maybe I've made a couple of small. But whatever, nothing like the pops up. - Like investment, a relationship.

- No, I've never regretted a relationship.

I mean, of course you can say you've regretted some investments and some not, but I'm in, yeah. - Overall, I've been a huge winner in investments, so I'm not like, been very happy with my investment strategy. But I'm risky, so 'cause some don't do well.

I think I shorted gold. Oh, most of, you know what it is? Sometimes I wish I had held investments. So when Netflix and Facebook dropped to like nothing,

and they would be like $4 million each right now.

But I was a little bitch and I sold. I got nervous and I sold. - You didn't lose money, though.

“- No, I didn't lose money, but I could have made milk.”

I lost potential. - They're mourning your paper. - I'm mourning my paper gains. Those are just as real as a loss. - Those are just as real as a loss.

- We're not allowed to do that. - That's just as silly. Why is that any silly or then losing money? It's the lost opportunities, just as valuable is lost money.

I mean, it's all the same. - So you made money? - You know, actually. No, I didn't, I left millions of dollars on the table. That's no different than losing millions of dollars.

- Yeah, but like, how do you predict when the, how are you gonna be? - I know, so I'm not mad at my, I mean, just is what it is, yeah. I don't stress out over investments.

I'm not ever gonna invest in anything that this gonna stress me out. I don't, I'm not gonna take those kind of risks. Has money ever ruined one of your relationships? No, it's only helped.

I don't think any girls have ruined like, oh my God, you're doing too many nice things to me. Come on, I'm gonna rewrite these. - Okay, what would you say a question should be? - No.

- What's the most important financial question?

What's the question I should have asked you, but didn't? - I think that people think that a certain amount of money is gonna make them happy. I think what is more enjoyable is the slow struggle towards success.

That is way more enjoyable. It even arguably more enjoyable than being successful. I think the most fun aspect of success is the slow climb. The, you know, every year, the grinding

and moving towards a goal and seeing yourself become more successful and you're bringing up your friends with you and your employees and that kind of joint struggle towards success is so enjoyable, so rewarding.

I think that is way more fun than just being successful.

“That's why probably a lot of trust fun kids,”

probably a lot less happy than the people that are a lot less wealthy, but are grinding towards success. I mean, the process is, you have to enjoy the process. And I think that that was the most fun. - Yeah, because there's a goal, fallacy,

once you hit one goal. - Absolutely. That's why I don't do goal. I don't know, that's why I don't do goals. - And you're just opt out of.

- Well, because it's the process, that's the fun part. It's definitely the process. And the enjoyment of the success. I don't know why people just throw up on some money. I guess if you have kids, you want to leave a legacy,

but come on, your kids don't need, you know, $50 million dollars. I mean, if you have some money, you should just be spending the shit out of it and do it on your kids too.

I mean, and your friends. I mean, you should be, I don't know, I really, really think that, especially now, with AI, creating, you know, where things are going to be so cheap in the future.

Spend your money now. - Why wouldn't you spend it when I was cheaper? - Well, I mean, just start enjoying it,

“because you're not going to be needing, you know,”

you're not going to be needing it much in the future. I really don't think you're going to be needing it.

You still going to need, first class fights

and things like that are going to be, you know, so you're going to have to spend money. Travel will still be exempt, although it'll all be, I mean, we won't have human pilots and do it as is probably in 15 years,

so that'll be a lot cheaper. - Or stewards, or whatever. (laughing) (laughing) - Come on, Jason, why are you your chopper

to Orange County? - No. - Choppers are, I don't like choppers, that makes me, I just sweat the whole 10, not a chopper guy. - Do you mean, are you scared of why?

- I don't love being in a chopper. - Or a private jet? - Yeah, I don't love being in a private jet either. I prefer a large, it has to be a really large private jet or prefer a commercial.

- I don't like the-- - Let me get it for you. - They're rocky, you know? Although I do fly JSX, which is pretty small, although I've had some pretty rough experiences in JSX.

So yeah, I don't like small, and I don't like choppers. I'll do a chopper if it saves me a ton of time, but I just stressed out the whole time. - Well, I'm sure you're into like the tunnels at Elon's building that will get us a boring company.

- I don't know, I think I'll just wait. I'm really looking forward to autonomous vehicles. I want my autonomous sprinter van. - What do you mean? I have an autonomous Tesla.

- Yeah, but you have to be there. I want to be able to relax, watch TV, chill out, and have no risk of an accident. And just have my little cold soda right here, my big ass TV, and my massaging chair.

And there's one other chair next to me, and it just drives me perfectly smoothly. You know, no slamming on the brakes, no risk of an accident. That I'm looking forward to there. We're just a few years away from that.

- You're Topia, here we come. - Well, by the way, we're also going to all have our own drivers. We're all going to have our own chauffeurs and family. - We're going to meet drivers. - I have my point.

- My daughter's one years old. - That's my point, I'm going to learn how to drive. - That's my point, though, we're all, I mean, I'm just talking about the quality of life for people who's going to go up so much.

We're not just going to have Michelin star chess, we're going to have all have our own autonomous chauffeurs. It's a good life coming up.