Zac Clark on reality TV drinking culture & showing up

I'm saying, you can say that you're a hero.

“You're a master of the club, right? But you don't understand.”

Exactly. It's just a challenge. You're just a master of the club. You're just a master of the club. And if you then work, you're a coach. - That's right? - Safe. You're just a master. - You're just a master of the club. - Now you're a master of the club.

Maybe imagines hitting the lotto, possibly finding that lover they've always dreamt of.

Or perhaps carrying out a diabolical murder in the most brutal way imaginable. Dr. Swartz was based down in a pool of blood. A renowned scientist killed in a murderous frenzy. A very gruesome and disturbing scene. Persons of interest obsessed with role-playing and the occult. And at the center of it all, a twisted

leader called the Lord of Chaos and a killer hiding behind a mask of sanity. We're here now. I can smell blood. From Sony Music Entertainment and Emwellium Phelps LLC, fatal fantasy, available now on the bench, search for fatal fantasy, wherever you get your podcasts to start listening today. Hey guys, I'm Carl Radke and welcome to more life. I've got a very special guest today. He's a close

friend of mine. A great guy. His name is Zach Clark. He is the founder of release recovery an incredible organization based here in New York City. He has so much information and a wealth of knowledge on sobriety, running a business, reality TV, can't wait to get to talk to Zach. So excited. Hope you guys check us out. Come and live from softbar here in Green Point, Brooklyn. Zach Clark. Welcome to more life. Thanks for being here.

Appreciate you. It's an easy one. It's an easy one in the space. You've been here. We were here about a month ago for the release recovery run club. Yeah. This was a massive success. Congrats on the marathon. Thank you, you too. By the way, just to give a quick, this guy talked me off a ledge. You don't know. I don't know if you remember this moment, but I almost missed the bus making the marathon morning. Yes. I forgot that there's traffic

and roadblocks set up for the race. I live in Green Point. I couldn't get across the plasky bridge to get into the city. So I was almost late to the bus. I get to the bus finally. You were sitting there very chill, very composed, and I'm like, and you're like, bro, it's going to be okay.

I always help people. You're going to get to the start line and you're going to run.

“It is going to work out. I promise you. I think the more or less what you said was like,”

it's going to be okay. This is a couple years ago. I was going together with a friend of mine, Kyle Axman. Yep. And we're sitting having coffee after a workout. Kyle Axman's a big trainer here in New York City. He does a lot of fitness stuff. We're having coffee. And this is about 2021, 2022. I was really trying to like step my foot more in the sobriety recovery space and really be open about my story to try to help other people. And Kyle Axman says to me, he goes, you know, is that clerk?

I said, I think I've seen him on the bachelor. And he's like, you don't know him. And I'm like, not know him. He's like, pulls out his phone immediately. He texted you. You texted me, I think within 30 minutes. And I went into release recovery and I visited you guys on 19th street. Yep. And just started a friendship and a bond and just have gotten to know you over the last couple years. So thank you again for being here. And just I love everything you're doing and

you're a big inspiration. So this podcast is called MoreLife. Okay. Now, I used to drunkenly say

“this many years ago in reality TV. I think more life is just a saying that I love. It's all about”

living to your best potential work hard, play hard, just really be didn't all out there. So it's the same that I love. But do you have a favorite phrase or saying that you often find yourself repeating? Yeah. Before I do, I just do that. Like when we met, I'm just rooting for you, bro. Thanks, man. I'm just fucking rooting for you. And it's one of the things that older you get and the more you like, trudged this road. It's so much easier just for people. And you're one of

those guys. You're very easy to root for. So thank you for having me. I feel very grateful to be here. My keep going, man. Keep going. It's just very simple. One of my favorite. I saw it recently, Virgil Ablow's a RIP of Virgil. It was in one of the quotes he was all about. It was like it doesn't matter. You don't have to have it all figured out. Don't have all, you don't need all the answers right now. Just keep going. It's the one thing you can't take away from someone. The guy there,

the girl, it keeps showing off it just is relentless like that junkyard dog. They ultimately end up winning. Yep. It's one of my favorite qualities. And you even said this at one of our release run club events was in reference to actually the Caitlyn Haley who shows up like crazy. He's an amazing person.

Like that's a quality that is never a bad thing. Being reliable, showing up for people,

You also made me question some of my own efforts in service and trying to help and support others.

Because I've looked at what you've done. I'm like dude, Zach, fucking.

“Well, I think that people forget. I mean, that's that's one of the polarizing things about”

me and my life that that I struggled with sometimes is I did. I went on the bachelor in 2020 and that was an awesome experience. What I think people don't realize is that I had a long career well before that. You know, my story really starts at 27 when I got clean and prior to that, I love the party. I love the drink. I progressed to hard drug usage. So I be heroin, crack cocaine. And so at 27 years old, I was, you know, I was lost. I had had a brain tumor in my 20s. There had been a lot of debauchery and a lot of

that was was just not really knowing who I was. And so I got sober. I went to rehab a couple of times. I was married. I ended up getting divorced and I showed up in New York City in early 2012. What brought you to New York City at the last time? Well, that's the thing. I don't know God, spirituality, the universe. I don't know why I came here. I still to this day. I mean, there's nothing that I don't like to sports teams. It's expensive, you know, like my father drilled

“into me that, you know, we don't like New Yorkers. Like whatever you want to say, right? Did you have a plan?”

Did I have a plan? No. Did you like, what? The stay sober. That was my plan. Well, how many years sober are you now? 14. I had 14 in August. I made it. In the go back just before you got to New York. You mentioned you got sober. Cleaning sober in your 27th. August 30, 2011. The last, my last drink was a course light. August 29th of 2011. Me and my mom and dad were staying at a holiday in about an hour from the treatment center that we went to. And we sat there. I had a couple of

annexing my pocket. I was withdrawing from opiate and me and my mom and my dad looked at each other and we literally drank course light. My dad's a sober bullet guy. And we went cheers to my last drink. And to this day is my last drink. And I remember being in rehab in all the therapists trying to say my parents were enabling me or that wasn't the right way to do it. Stop, stop. Can you still taste what that beer tastes like? I don't miss the beer. I don't miss the drink.

I don't miss any of it to be very clear. I don't. I really don't. If you've ever done heroin,

“there is a taste that you get in the back of your throat which you will never forget. And that”

is a taste that I certainly still remember. The weird thing is I never did like shooting a

heroin or anything like that. However, I did trials and oxycontons at one point. I had some friends that were into it. It was almost like they're doing. It seems cool. I'm very lucky because I got really sick when I first attempted it. Well, did your brother, I mean did that keep you? Did you, did your little scared straight from you? Could you tell your brother? Yeah. There was an element of my growing up where my there was police activity at our house when I was like 10-11. My brother,

he was running with the wrong crowd. He was smoking weed and drinking underage. His grades in school were kind of going down. He was getting in trouble. He ran with the wrong crew and they were involved in like a 7-11 convenience store like situation. Amazing. This is a true story, my mom. Corrected me though. It wasn't during the Super Bowl or the AFC playoffs. It was just another Saturday. But this memory of they were playing the New England Patriots. I had a bunch of

guy friends over. I was 12 at the time. And during the party, my dad answers the door to a knock and there was five police officers outside and he had a warrant to search our house. My dad goes to my mom like get the kids and police entered the house, arrested my brother, right in front of

all my guy friends and my brother was handcuffed on the stairs and basically going to us like

what his hands back. I'm so sorry guys. I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't do anything wrong. Police go upstairs, search the house, flip it upside down. Didn't find anything. But that was like one of the first moments printed in my brain where like police read our house, shit was going down and it was because my brother. But from that 12-13 years old, I was like I'm going to do everything in my power to be not him. Our name in our town, my father went to school there.

My aunts and uncles went to school in Pittsburgh. So people knew the red key name. But then my brother really took it to a different direction. He was in trouble all over town. He got in trouble. He stole money from an outback steakhouse that he'd worked at. It was in the local paper. So most people when I get came around and they're like, oh, what are we going to get with him? So I made it a point to not be anything like him. And what's funny is I was just running a

way from what was staring at me at the whole time. I used to make fun of his drug issues. I used to rip on him. So release part of what I do today. And we were kind of talking about who I am is I run a treatment program, you know, in New York City and in Austin, we just open a program out there. And it's funny to your point about calls. If you need help, seriously, call us.

But that's so many people's story. You'll get, we'll get someone in our care and they'll say, I didn't drink till I was 22 because I was my dad or my mom was an alcoholist. And then the

second they start, all bets are off. Yep. And so when we look at addiction and substance

abuse and people want to say, is it a disease? You know, I don't care. I don't get club in the language.

“Is it a disease? I think so probably. And so for me, I think the misconception that the public”

has around addiction is that the drugs and the alcohol were my medicine. Right? It was my medicine. It worked. It quieted my mind. And so when I eventually need to get sober at 27, you're taking my medicine away. You're taking my crack cocaine. You're taking my hair when you're taking my course like, and you're ripping it away from me. So then it's I'm left with a hole in my soul that I then need to fill with other medication, which for me is the meetings, the community,

you know, the running, the mental health, whatever it is. And that's the part that I think people miss is like, well, why don't they just stop because the drugs and the alcohol work? I started

drinking, and I knew from the first set that I loved alcohol. I just knew that I loved the relief

that it kind of gave. Do you remember when you had your first drink? Yeah. It was a Christmas Eve party. And you know, it was 13, 14 years old. I'm one of the older. Like classic guys offered me

“a Miller High Life. I drank it. The champagne of beer. What do you guys, you guys, Paps?”

Keystone Light. Keystone Light? You're a Natty Light. Big Natty Light. Natty, Natty, I see if we were got it. You guys really want to get after it. Yeah. Yeah. Five nine. That shit was close. I lived in this one square mile town and we would go garage hopping and then if we struck out on the edges, yes. We we called a garage. Riches robbery. We see all one of the neighbors. Yes. They're usually a fridge in some of these garages. You'd enter like on a afternoon when they were doing

yard work. But the the hook was, if you ever got caught in there, you would say you're looking for your dog like the dog and run away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, we used to steal beer from the neighbors garage. But if we struck out garage hopping, we would then go to the woods and go on these hunts. And if you were lucky, you would find like beer from the woods in several natural ice that are three months old and you would drink them. And I'm smiling because it brings me back to

my youth because that's exactly what it was. I mean, it was the best. Then I got to college. I went to York College as in Pennsylvania. It's a small little school I played baseball. And I really took it apart myself to show people and teach people how to drink because I've been drinking now for three or four or five years. And I just knew that it was different for me. I loved it so much. And I built my entire existence around ceremonializing like getting drunk and having the party and

the caggers and the ice loses and the whole thing. And so I graduate college and and I'm the

“press. I'm sad I'm like damn, that's it. Like that part of my life is over. And so I had met a girl”

and we moved to my hometown and we both kind of got our first jobs and we were living a decent life. And then you know, and then I got the brain tumor. How did you discover you had something going on? I was not right. I mean, like seeing Clyde's ghost falling over, I think people thought I had vertigo. They threw it there. I went to this x-ray place and the woman was shocked to see something. You know, people coming there all day every day and they've seen nothing. So I was rushed to the hospital

and I was in surgery the next day. And so coming out of that, I was prescribed the pills. Got it. That's when I first knew like, oh, there's another level of this shit. Every human being fantasizes. Maybe imagines hitting the lotta, possibly finding that

lover they've always dreamt of. Or perhaps carrying out a diabolical murder in the most brutal way

imaginable. Dr. Swartz was based down in a pool of blood, a renown scientist killed in a murderous frenzy, a very gruesome and disturbing scene. Persons of interest obsessed with role playing and the occult. And at the center of it all, a twisted leader called the Lord of Chaos and a killer hiding behind a mask of sanity. We're here now. I can smell blood. From Sony Music Entertainment and Em William Phelps LLC, fatal fantasy, available now on the binge search for fatal fantasy,

wherever you get your podcasts to start listening today. Sure. So when you were in college ripping it up, partying, being like kind of the man of the hour, did you ever dabble in any other things? Yeah, I mean, there was Coke, there was Atterall, a study, there was a bit like it was like, so this is two dial it's riddle in, it's five ants, it's anything that you can crush up up your nose. Yeah, I don't know if you remember the first time

doing Coke, but the first time I did Coke, I remember waking up my dorm room, my freshman year,

was what if my parents find out? Yep, I was so terrified. I stayed in bed that entire day and

then the next weekend, I was like, how do we do that again? Yep. I remember my first time as an

aquapoco sophomore at Syracuse that we did a big spring break trip. And when I blew that line in the hotel room, the immediate thing I thought is if my brother and my parents find out they're going to kill me, but I remember also feeling, this is great. I feel so weird. And what

“how would we then? About 1920. And you went on the show, like when did the summer house run?”

Summer house didn't start till it was 30 years old. So about 10 years after I graduated, eight years after college. And you were living in the city at the time? Yeah, it was. Yeah, for me, like my college experience probably similar to yours. Like I drank with a big social connection. I was in a fraternity. The fraternity I was in, we loved cocaine. It was like the drug-ish voice and most parties. And a lot of my friends at Syracuse, and I love New York to

give me wrong, but like they had all been doing Coke since 15 at night clubs in New York. And they were like bottle service, Coke and Adderall. And I'm like, it was all new to me. You've gotten a brain tumor diagnosis. You're going into surgery. You're in recovery now on pain meds. So there's a couple of things. One in 2007, 2008, there's no, we are not aware of the opioid. No. I mean, it was still, former political sales were still pushing at them. We are not aware of the opioid epidemic,

which means there is no doctor sitting me down and saying, hey, I am giving you these medications. These medications are highly addictive. It was simply, hey, here's, you have pain take this, you won't have pain anymore. And for my mind and the way my body responds to things that feel good,

“it was a home run. So I was often running. And so do you remember what that first prescription was?”

This is the thing that I think people that want to stigmatize the word heroin, I always laugh,

because I always say, do you realize that every hospital in the country is basically legally

administering heroin all day, every day, through the forms of the lauded and morphine and all these other drugs. Yeah. And then you get out and yeah, you get a, you get a script of morphine, perks set, but the perks 30 is 30 milligrams of perks set with no other filler. So it is just another level. And once I got my hands on those, it was game over. It was game over. You weren't able to get your prescriptions. You were getting them from other places.

Yeah, I mean, I was a horrible drug addict. I always laugh. I had an x-ray that basically, I probably could have taken any doxer in the country and said, I'm having pain, because I had this brain tumor. And I just never thought to do that. So once my scripts ran out from the brain surgery, I maybe milked that for a little bit. And then I started buying them on the street, which at the time, you were paying probably a dollar a milligrams.

So if you're getting a 30 milligrams per cassette or an 80 milligrams of oxy cotton, you're paying a dollar milligrams. So it was an expensive habit. Very expensive. Yeah, I remember when I did try that OC 80, we paid $80 from episode as this tiny little brown thing. And I found lick the exterior coating off. So you

could crush it up. I've never been more sick in my time. Yeah, it's so sick. And that's actually,

I think on every day, because my friend did go down that path. And he's still alive. Luckily, I was able to get sober, but for whatever reason, you know, I didn't didn't respond. But like, what would you say was a typical day at this point in your life of active addiction for you? Like, wake up, get high, or so my life in active addiction, again, was pretty polarizing because, and this is the part that I think a lot of people miss. Carl, I think a lot of

you miss is about addiction. You can keep it together for a very long time. It does not look the way that it is depicted on movies, 99 out of 100 times. So for me, again, going back to this idea that the pills were my medicine, I needed per cassette or oxygen to physically get out of bed. And then by didn't, I was going to spend the entire morning searching for my drug dealer to whatever it was. And I was going to blow off any responsibility I had because I would get sick.

And so on a good day, when I had my medicine, I would wake up. I would take my medication, the, you know, snorted by the end, I was smoking them. And once I had that first one in me, then it was like, let's go. And you were able to perform in life when you went to work? Yep. My first job was I was a, I was a recruiter. I was good at it because I was high all the time and I was just like smiling and dialing. Yeah, I was ripping phone calls, ripping darts,

new ports, shout out new ports. Wow. And just getting people jobs. So you were able to maintain that game while still being active addiction. And then I'm glad you said that because I think a lot of people even with my story, like I didn't look like your typical, like what I had this perception or feeling like what you just said is like, from a movie, you see,

“like, the haggard guy on the park bench who's got a brown paper bag and a 40. That's what I thought,”

like alcoholics, that's where we need to be better. I mean, as a nation and as a country and as a, you know, as a community. You go to the wealthiest town in America and you go to that, that town's country club and you walk in those doors on a Friday and Saturday night, you were going to get hit square in the face with alcoholism. And then me affairs. And it's just because it doesn't look the way that movies and society tells us that it looks. I was talking

and for the watchers, I know this and I'm from Pittsburgh, but Kensington is probably one of the biggest open-air drug markets in Philadelphia and nationwide. It's like a rough and there it looks pretty gnarly. The environment I grew up in was it looked like, I don't know, the country club life. It was like the buttoned up people. But then you had my brother who actually didn't look like that. He was like tied, I shared some, he looked a little rough around the edges. But then for me and my

story, I mean, people would never know. I mean, my goal and every day that I got hired drunk was like,

I didn't want you to know. You know, trying to hide behind that. Yeah, that becomes a game in itself. What did you have a rock bottom moment in August of 2011? And at this point, just to paint the picture, I'm like, not that way, I mean, I'm 250 pounds. So I am, I am basically the regimen is, it's hard for me to wrap my head around you being too fit. I'll give you a picture. I'll give you a picture.

“So I'm smoking crack all day, which in theory you should be not putting on. And then at night,”

I'm taking my anti-cycotic meds, which is Cerequil and Cerequil one of the side effects is it makes you very hungry. So in order to pop a John's after taking my anti-cycotic meds, the pop a John's would come. I would hammer an extra large piece of guzzle the garlic sauce, fall asleep, and then repeat the next day. So somehow I'm putting on weight as a crackhead, right, in my late later days. And it's just, it's just classic. And we can laugh about it today. I know, I'm glad we go laugh, I hope.

It's fucking funny. It is. It's funny. We're allowed to laugh. I'm here of a live. I'm sober. It's all good. I appreciate that. You know, like, that's part of the thing here is we take this shit too seriously. Thank you for saying that, because I appreciate the laughing about it. And sometimes I'm very candid with friends that aren't in the community or in our recovery. And I'll make a comment about six years ago, me doing some crazy cocaine thing. And they're like, I'm like, no, that's funny as well.

“Get on their wrists and we're in like, are we allowed to talk about this?”

They're good, like, and you've taught me that to kind of embrace the, the laugh at it. You know, it's, it's something that you got to wrap your arms around a little bit more.

So in those last days, rock bottom, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm basically at the end of the road, right? I've

no more money. I'm not able to show up to work anymore. My wife has, I was married at the time. So you got married in between all this? Yeah. So I got married in 2009. So you were an active addiction when getting married. Yes. Yeah. She basically sent me to rehab once and then after I got high after that first rehab said I'm, I'm out. And she's awesome. She saved my life. So now we're in 2011 and, and the wheels

have completely fallen off. And I have two drug dealers, dog and bro, that I'm rolling around three co-guys. Yeah. I'm with you. And, and these guys are, I get why people don't like drug dealers, like, to me, I saw the humanity and these guys. They were just trying to feed their families. They were just trying to make a buck. Neither of them did drugs. That's like such a wild thing to think through. I know. And so we basically had this plan. I was going to cash this check. This $5,000 was going to

go towards our next kind of business, whatever. And so I walk in this bank, I try to cash the check, a woman by the name of Rhonda Jackson, who was a bank teller, looks me and the eye and says, I'm calling your dad. You know, she could have called the cops. She could have done a bunch of other things. But in that moment, she saw me. She saw me for who I was. She saw me struggling. I'm forever grateful for her. And like the lesson in that story has just be kind. She called my

dad, who happened to be at the office, answers the phone. And within like 20 minutes, he's at the bank, putting his arm on my arm saying, so we're going home. And home was rehab. And so rock bottom, August 28th, 29th of 2011, this woman, who, by the way, is not a therapist. She's not a psychiatrist. She's not a teacher. She's not family, a bank manager saves my life by doing the right thing.

And I'll never, ever forget it. The other point I wanted to make, which you were alluding to,

is how we tell our stories. I mean, you give me the confidence, you know, see, you speak so publicly and openly. And authentically, it's contagious for someone like myself. Was it first time you said you told people you were again? So do you remember publicly? I think it was combination. I originally said, like, I need to get help is what I said. And I'm looking at getting help. I talked about that publicly.

Was it a rehab? No. I never went to rehab. I actually was sat down by two different people that said,

“I think you should. Yeah. But then COVID happened. Yeah. Which was almost like I rehab”

in a weird way. Yeah, intervention. Couldn't really go out. Yeah. However, that initial thing I said to myself was, there's no way I'm an alcohol like I can't be. Like, there's no. Like, I'm just going to stop drinking wine or stop drinking beer. Yeah. And as we all know, if you really do struggle, that was over very quickly. But it was not a linear path. It was around the fall of 2019. I had a really rough filming

with summer house. And was actually a girlfriend of mine. We weren't dating, but I would call

or she lived in Los Angeles. So she's always three hours behind. She was a good friend,

but like after a while, I would call her all but she was attractive. We'd flirt. I'd say crazy shit. I would whatever. She finally in the fall of 2019. She's like, I'm not going to pick up your calls anymore. She's like, you, like, have a real problem. And I'm like, fuck you. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. You question my drinking your ear cut off. So I kind of was like,

“fuck her for a bit. But then in a couple of months past, and she says, I really think you should”

go to a Tony Robbins seminar. Amazing. So I went with to date with Destiny in West Palm Beach, Florida. Shout out to Sean White and Eddie George. They were sitting in the the rose right there. And I was like, I love Eddie George. He's been trophy winner. I love Sean White, gold medal, snowboarder, badass. They're here, but it wasn't necessarily about like alcoholism. It was just about finding something and dig deeper. So I was there that first day and I saw something happen at

Tony Robbins with a father and a son. And at that point in my life, I was not speaking to my dad. I had a lot of resentment at anger. My parents had gone through a divorce. And my dad hadn't a fair. And I really got upset with my father about the whole thing. But I used my father. He's just story as a excuse for me to drink. I literally would say this, even on TV. Sorry about last night, my parents were getting a divorce. It was like, what? Yeah. It's not even like, how do you

self-righteous alcoholism exactly? So that was my path was around 2019 realizing I had to get some help. I went to Tony Robbins first day back. I flew back into LaGuardia, got back to my soho apartment, had a couple beers in my apartment and immediately called a cocaine dealer. And it was

like Tony Robbins never existed. So it was just this roller coaster and then COVID happened and I was kind

of forced to stay inside. But then that's when I really started opening up. But when I really admitted that I had a problem wasn't until January 6th, 7th of 2021. But it would been from that fall of 2019 that I realized that something was up. Right. To be completely honest, the part of my story that I was uncomfortable talking about was the cocaine. Yeah. I did everything in my power early on to just it was a alcohol, just alcohol, because I the perception, even with heroin too, it's like this

other side of like, oh my god, it's like so intense and ugly and dark. And even Coke kind of gets put into that. And the cocaine thing is bizarre because everyone does cocaine, literally everyone does

“everyone. Everyone. And that's why I used to joke when I wasn't buying it, I would go into a bathroom”

in New York and you'd trip and fall into it. Yeah. But talking about it publicly and being honest was so scary because cocaine to me was another level. I remember you like the moment where I was like everyone kind of leaves high school. They go off the college and then you get back together for, you know, Thanksgiving or whatever it is. And you realize everyone's doing cocaine. I'm like, yeah. Oh, it's like that. Yeah. That's exactly how I mean we would go home and it was repeating.

I'm talking like 80% of the graduating class are doing blow. Yeah. And that's I feel like New York City is like that a lot. I mean, yeah, probably more and so. But no one's honest really about it and it's such a weird drug. Which is like the thing, right? I get in a way why, but it just bothers me because it created this kind of fear and being really honest in myself. In true story, I got the I got sat down by two executives that I worked with at for the TV stuff. And in the moment, they were like,

“you need to help. And I'm like, yeah, am I drinking? And one of them looked at me and they'll never”

forget. She kind of looks at me and she's like, is it just drinking? And the way she said it and I just was like, they know. Because for that whole time, I was like, no one knows about the coke. It's not, it's just the booze. But it's the way she looked at me and unraveled my, I was like, okay, they know. And that was something over time. I finally was like, you know what? I'd rather people hate me for who I really am than love me for who I'm not. But it's still not easy. But it was like a weird

thing being really honest about cocaine so publicly. All of the guys you're telling the story is like, it's like the guy who's newly sober, the girls, newly sober and says like, I can't be seen walking into therapy. I can't be seen walking into a meeting. What if someone I know sees me? And I want to say like, but you'll take your shirt off high on cocaine in a New York City bar at 11 o'clock on Saturday night. And there's no problem with that. Like, there's no like, you know, it's just so

crazy, the warped way that we think about some of these things. It's like, oh, you're going to a place to better yourself as a human being God forbid someone sees you. God forbid you tell them the truth,

you know. And and and I got to that place with my story and I never looked back where I just

said I'm just going to fucking tell my story. The way it is and my response or the response has been in large part. That's awesome. Yeah, it permeates like me now being more confident and open. I've had people tell me the like dude, I've never been able to be honest about the coke part of my story. But you being honest about it has allowed me to. And that makes me feel really good. But it

but everybody does it. But it's such a, well, the part that's harder for you dude is you also, you also struggled publicly. You know, the world that large only knows me as sober guy.

“So in 2020, I went on the bash. Well, that's why I love to get into that because I think there”

is a similar reason you and I story and I love being, you know, I love that we're kind of in this reality world. But now we live in this kind of this recovery world and really authentic lifestyle when you joined reality, you were sober. I'm so damn grateful for that experience. You know, going on that show and the life lessons and the people. And it's also been something that I've had to work through in my professional life is like people taking me seriously. You know, because

of the just like we talk about stigma with something like cocaine, there's a stigma around people that go on reality television that I think you and I know know really well. And most of that stigma comes from same gender like comes from guys. Yeah. And, you know, being called a douchebag or whatever. Yeah. Fuck boy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've lived it all. So the next real talk, man, like, and I don't talk about this stuff a lot, but I'm here with you. It was just like, yeah. That's something

“that I've had to work through, you know. For sure. And it's everything. I mean, I think given”

how you've been able to turn, you've had that reality experience, but then what you've done

professional in, since I think is incredible. It's like actually beautiful to see you've leveraged

some of the awareness from the show, of course. You can see when someone's driving towards something. Yeah. If you follow Carl Rackie right now, you know he is driving towards something. He is driving towards soft bar. He's driving towards positivity. He's driving towards bettering yourself as a human. Like it's very clear. And, and you've evolved as a human. I've evolved as a human. I made a very clear decision when I came off of that show that I was not going to do anything

that was going to misalign with me and my values. And it's an epic prior to like even joint, like was there anything you were nervous about going on that show and then... So I went on during COVID. It was 2020. My sister and my mom, I was 36. So it was a year. So Claire was the lead that year and she ended up linking up with one of the other castmates. And so, you know, I don't want to miss people. Like she was an older, you know, it was an older cast and historically

had been. So at 36, I was like, you know, in the right age. Because of the young attractive guy.

“Yeah, I think Claire was also a 36 or 37 or whatever when she was the lead. And so, the first round”

had been put on hold because they showed up in Hollywood in March of 2020. So they basically

paused the season and they didn't bring it back until June and they recasted. So I was in that second round of casting. Who put your name in that? My mom and my sister. Oh, they put your name in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because I was 36, like living on the upper west side in New York, working my ass off and not really dating. And so, like, what better way they just put yourself out? You know, and so it was a crazy guy. I mean, the world was shut down. Yeah. And the way those things

work is you probably know is there's no real access to media, phone, TV, any of that. And so I don't I'm there and I don't know what's going on. I literally don't know what's going on in the world. Like, I don't know if COVID's cured. I don't know if we're in a world shut down. It's just you're in this bubbling literally in a bubble for three months. And it was, it was wild. Did you find any of your sobriety recovery kind of challenge by that environment? It was an advantage. I mean,

I love hearing that. I'm going to have them say that it was an advantage in that environment. Now, is there drinking it? Yeah, okay. Yeah, they're drinking. I mean, and guys would drink and I don't, I've learned to stop taking other people's inventory smart. You know, it's because it's a slippery slope. And if people, if people want to approach me about their drinking or their drug use, I will have that conversation anytime anywhere. It is not my job to diagnose people. And so

well, unless I'm asked or paid professionals, you know, well said, I had a period of five years on the show where I was drinking. And then I stopped. But I felt like I'm like this fish out of water, because it was like, how do I go back in the same room where I was previously? Just because people don't know, they don't know. And that's an opportunity, right? And for me to say, I do, I'm not here to make you feel uncomfortable. Yeah. And did you make the guys or anybody else

feel unintentionally? Because I know I have when I first got-- I think the person who gets who

feels uncomfortable is probably the person who's helped. Exactly. Yeah. 100%. And they'll come up to you later and tell you that. You're like, hey, man, tell me more about this, right? You're like, yeah, what do you mean? What does this, what does it mean? You don't drink. How is dating on that show publicly sober? Well, that's something I've encountered. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing that I think you could ask me about anything. And so I wasn't there with one or two years' sobriety. I was there

that I'm just going to walk into this with the most authentic version of myself that I possibly

can. And I'm going to be really comfortable with my story. And if someone wants to judge my story or think things about my story that are not true or just say, hey, I don't really want a data sober person, that's not my job to determine it. Yeah. My job is to show up as we talked about at the beginning and have an experience. Yeah. And that has served me really well over the years. I'm sure you can suddenly your sister and your mom submitted you because you weren't really dating.

I know early on when I got sober. I was afraid to date just because I was told way to year, you know, focus on your recovery and that that first year is so important. Things are changing, life's kind of you're re-establishing yourself. You would have had some years of sobriety. Had you been dating at all? Yeah, I did the whole New York thing, man, for many years, you know, before you had anybody like go, well, you know, Zach, great story. Really nice guy,

but the sober thing isn't for me. I don't know that that ever happened to my face. Sure.

And I definitely have never had the experience of kind of like the person questioning what's in my

cup. I don't think that's happens as often as people fear it might. Yeah. I'll tell you that I more often than not, it was me deciding, hey, like, this section isn't going to work for me. Got it. Because of the way that you're behaving. Sure. You know, like, I remember making out the girl that was that I was not aware was doing cocaine all night and getting like a little bit of the nummies. And then being like, you were doing coke,

you know, and totally calling it out. And to her credit, she was honest about it. And in that

“moment that night, I think we just whatever carried on with the night. And then the next day, I was kind of”

just like, this probably is not going to work. I mean, I love the second hand smoke. And I love the fact that you're enjoying a sophisticated line of cocaine on a Saturday night, but it's probably not going to work for me. Well, said, I mean, when you when you joined the show, had you built your business release recovery? Yeah, we were popping. We were popping. I mean, it was not, it was nowhere near what it is. So today we're like, you know, we're like, like I said, we're 90 beds throughout, you know,

like over 100 employees. When did you make this transition to behavior? Well, when I got sober, when I got sober, I knew when I moved to New York in 2012. I mean, I got a job, an entry-level

job, basically a tech, you know, at a recovery program, you know, house manager, doing all the

all the things. And then hung a shing with did that for five years worse for some good guys. And then for five years. And then in 2017, hung a shingle. That was the first. A lot of property up in Westchester County. And, you know, the town didn't want to say or not my backyard, a bunch of drug addicts against stigma, fought them, learned about all the local small town politics. And that house is still there. It's our OG house. I mean, that's really where I get the most

“fulfillment in life is when I get to put the phone down and and and be back on day one with a lot of”

these folks that are just just trying to. Is that the reminder you need to sober people are in the best. Like, there is nothing. I mean, your family seen it. My family seen it. When the lights go on for someone and people get sober, it's it's physical. It's mental. It's spiritual. It's your smile right now. It's emotional. The wholesale change that takes place when someone gets sober is there's nothing that beats it. So for me, getting to be and run a program where folks are coming

into our care. Families are coming into our care in crisis and saying, please help us. And being able to be a small part of that is just yeah, it's got to feel this. Yeah. Something I've maybe you can explain just your perspective. But like, I grew up with a heroin addicts my brother. After a period of time, it's like, you'd like to try to help and then he burns the bridges or, you know, he stole my bike, he stole my video games, all the things. You don't know

how to help anymore. And you become just lost. I mean, how do you protect yourself? Because I used to get to a point where I'd be like trying to help him and trying to support him and then I'd lose myself in that process. How do I protect myself? I mean, it's it's doing what I'm going to do tonight. Go be around sober people. You know, keeping my commitments to that community and the people that, you know, I knew in my early days, understanding that I'm not God. Like, I'm not

going to get anyone drunk and I'm not going to get anyone sober. I can do the best I can to give some sounds, age advice, just like if someone wants to get their haircut. Yeah, go to this bar, but this is what I've arrived into. This is what I did. Was your sobriety at all challenged

“with those stressors or not making payroll or the town is kind of vetoing your, you know, your business?”

I'm a little, yeah, I'm a little hardheaded with that stuff. I got, like, I think one of the things that really separates me if I can be not so humble for a moment is, is I'm a believer. Like, I just absolutely, if it's something that I'm in, but I'm a fundamentally, I believe. I just believe.

Sure. I will say that I do worry about people. Myself included, making their job, their sobriety, and that's where it can get kind of ugly. Like, for me, I have to continue to nurture my own personal recovery outside of any professional career. Well, so yeah, yeah, it's almost like in the three months we've been open here. You know, I've had nights where I wake up in the middle and I think it about something. But it reminds me. Like, the things that you're, it's like me, like, you're the

guy now that like, I wish I could drive that Carlos can be okay. Yeah, humans live in paralyzing fear

“over nothing. The worst thing that can happen is, and look, I was a guy, I was a kid growing up,”

like, I never asked girls out. I needed to know that a girl had a crush on me prior to,

yeah, prior to because I was so scared of rejection and I know that about myself now. I know that, like, and I would have friends that could ask anyone out anytime and the girl would be like, oh, no, they're like, cool, next, like, and I'm like, yeah, what do you mean, dude? Like, I'd be crippled. I'd be so sad. Yeah. Oh my god. No, I, I appreciate all your openness. I mean, you said something before, and I feel like you could maybe shed some light on this. What is like one misconception

that you'd love to clear up or kind of change about addiction? Mind sometimes is like, it's not all one size fits all. Yeah. You know, and what may work best for Zach, may work differently for Carl. I think everybody wants that one, you know, quick fix. Is there something about the addiction that you wish you could change the misconception a little bit? I think it's just said it's, it's not a failure. Yeah. It's not, you're not a failure for for for for struggling.

And I'm very cognent of the fact that I am like way over here in terms of enthusiasm and passion for recovery. And there's going to be people in the middle, and there's going to be people that are hanging on for dear life every single day to say sober. And no matter where you fall

“on that line, I think that giving yourself a little bit of credit for even trying is a big deal.”

Doesn't make you a bad person and and and we could talk about this for hours, right? Like there's so many bad decisions made when people are active in their addiction that tear their families apart. Yep. That sometimes are insurmountable because the forgiveness is just needed. It is just too

too large. But the first person that anyone needs to forgive in this journey is themselves. That's

something that's some of the hardest work. Yeah. And that's where I think a lot of people get jammed up because they want to go out to everyone else and try to kind of mend their behavior. When realities, they got to look at the person's stand back at them in the mirror. And that's something that I'm still work on to be completely honest. Being more kind of, I mean, you said something just believing in yourself. Yeah. How do you believe in yourself? Because I've had my doubts

and like I'm on one side very confident. And then on the other side, I am very insecure and feel very like, I don't fit in and all that. I think for me, it just comes back to kind of having some self-awareness and really trying to understand who I am. But you're not cocky. You're confident. Yeah. Which I think is a great balance. Oh, no. I'm not like cock. I need that. I seek validation. The confidence just comes from like, look, if I was selling urinal cakes or like trading on Wall Street,

I don't know that I would be confident, right? But because I have been through this and I know firsthand how fortunate I am to have the life that I've been given, it makes it easier for me to have confidence at what I am doing and where I'm walking towards is the right thing. But what

“makes me a believer, I just, because I'm a miracle. I can't believe I'm alive. And that's why I,”

that's why I'm in the position I'm in is. And do people ask me about you? Like, fine, Carl, I think. This guy's a fucking best guy. Like, he's just going to have to worry about it, because to have your evolution and what you've been through and I know bits and pieces of it. But like, I know you as a human being, you know, on a very fundamental level. And people ask you about you, I'm just like the best. Next question. It's like, you know, because

and that's what's so like, if I could go back, get my brother back, I would. But then it's like all of this shit that's put me in this position. It's shaped me. It's made me stronger. It's given me a new lease on life. And I feel very lucky to be in this position. But at the same time,

there's always that like, you know, I wish I didn't have to go through all of that to get here

in a weird way. But I almost feel like it's my calling. It's God's got a plan. And I'm just, you know, following that. Coming up to wrap up here. Yeah. So we obviously talked about the concept of more life. Yes. My kind of version. I love keep going. I think it's one of the best things. I actually have kind of adopted it myself. I use it a lot. But what's giving you like more life right now is it could be something in your life. It could be a family member. I'll give

I don't want to cry, but it might be hard for me not to. After my brother had passed, she was struggling with wanting to be around. Yeah. In a way. And I was a sense of like, why she still shows up for life and still comes back. Because like bearing my brother and losing him was very tragic and difficult for my mom and my family, but my mom noticed importantly.

“And there was a period of time after his passing where she was like, what am I doing here?”

But I've given her some sense of pride and she's proud and like a new chapter. Yeah. And me getting sober and me taking my life trying to take you back control and really being honest about what I was struggling with. It's given her some peace and like a little gift. And what she said to me up here about it, I was like, I cried because I'm just like, just a beautiful thing. And just something that is giving me more life right now is my mom.

And that connection I have with her and the sobriety that I, it's for me, obviously. But the effects of that family members and the loved ones. It's really impacted my family in a beautiful way. So I'm curious in your life. Is there something given you more life right now? That was beautiful. Yeah. I know. I don't know that mine's going to be as well. I mean, for me, currently in this moment, I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of my whole like

running journey. And what I am looking at is really like how I'm going to optimize my life to put more joy back into it. And I really enjoy the process of running training for marathons. And I want to get faster and I want to kind of like get into the best shape of my life from just holistic approach of eating, sleeping, the whole thing. And so in this moment, that is giving me more life. Like this idea that, yes, I am 41 years old, but I have the opportunity

and ability to perform, hopefully at like a pretty high level, if I can commit to it. Oh, yeah. I'll leave it with us. So those people that have reached out to you, what do you, I mean, how do you guide people or what is your approach or anybody that is

watching that might reach out? The first thing I say is like, you don't know how damn proud of yourself

“you should be. Yeah. Like reinforce that behavior immediately. It's like having a kid. It's like”

hit them right between the nose and say like, do you realize that you just did? You wrote a stranger and confessed this about yourself or a family like take a moment and be proud. And then, you know, then it's gone about. Yeah, the X. I usually say that too. I'm like, thank you for reaching out to me and you should be really proud and brave. Yeah, courageous is fuck. Like you're reaching out to me. But here's the next part. I sometimes, I'm not a doctor. I'm not a therapist, but I can share a

little bit of what's work best for me or guide you to places that might be of support. Yeah. But I love that you feel the same way I do, which is like the amount of people that feel the connected and wanting to reach out to us and then the want to help back and get back.

I never have felt better in my life because of the help I give. The service I put in, I could do

a lot more, but there's something in that. When you get out of your body and help other people, you learn how lucky we are. Yep. So this is awesome. You can grab. Thank you, Zach. I appreciate your birthday. More life. Let's go. Wow. Thank you, Zach Clark. I love this guy.

“Honestly, he's one of my favorite people that I've met in the last, I'd say five years since”

I got sober. He believes in himself and that's something that I personally just struggle with a little bit. It's self-talk that I kind of tell myself that little voice in your head and Zach really shares just so much good stuff and personal experience about his story. Why he believes in himself. And then also he's a sober business owner and that's something I relate to big time, you know, building a company that, I mean building company alone is stressful and challenging and

raising money, hiring employees, but he's doing this in the recovery and behavioral health field. He does so much work for people that are struggling. He even helped me a little bit, but he does a lot using his platform for good. And this is literally one of my favorite people

in New York that I've gotten to know over the last five years, Zach's an incredible guy.

Thank you, Zach, and shout out to release recovery. I hope you guys love this. Check out more life with Carl Radke, wherever you listen to podcasts, Apple Spotify, YouTube, you name it, review, subscribe, all the things. We'll see you next time. Cheers. [Music] More life is produced by any seagull and executive produced by Adam Reynolds of denim pictures.

soft bar studios in Brooklyn, New York. More life is a production of Sony Music Entertainment.

“From 70 are executive producers are Chris Skinner and Joanna Clay, original music by function atoms.”

Set the Zion by Michael Ignacio, publicity by Caitlyn Healy, additional support from Abby Sharp,

special thanks to Allison Shano and Joanna Orland. New episodes drop every Tuesday. We'll see you next time.