How Music Brought Us Together: The Healing Journey of The Head and the Heart Band-Music Saved Me- Encore Episode

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- Right. - Literally be a lot of songs. You can kind of, are grappling with "Inforband Dynamics" to be fair to be honest, you know, and you're finding nuggets of truth in things

that you're learning and you're learning from each other. And there's just just much value in that as there is a personal relationship or some other experience that you went through that inspired you of.

And because you mentioned, we spent so much time together. That is literally like, it doesn't end up becoming a part of like, what occupies our minds and what we're processing

and going through. - I'm Lynn Hoffman, and welcome to the music saved me podcast. The podcast that explores the deep healing forces of music.

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I'm so grateful today. I get to speak with Matt Jervace and Charity Rose Dealand from the American Indie Folk Band, the head and the heart, Matti and Charity, welcome to music saved me.

This is a big thrill for us. - Hi, thank you for having us. - Yeah, thank you so much. - All right, so first I want to ask you, your band formed rather serendipitously

at an open mic night at a bar in Seattle. Can you tell us how music brought all of you together initially? - Yeah, yeah, it was kind of a hotge project as of individuals being attracted to this Irish pub

called Connor Burn and Ballard and John had moved from, a lot of us were actually coming from different states and it was in our early 20s, John moved from Virginia, Kenny had come up from LA, just Maya also came up from kind of the LA area to go to school in Seattle.

And I had just been studying overseas and coming home, I was born and raised Seattle, but had literally met the band two weeks after getting home. Chris was the only one there who later joined and he was the bartender of this open mic.

And we all kind of met very serendipitously.

but he came to watch a Lakers game. And saw a couple of us performing and said, "Oh, well, I play piano.

“Never had been in a band, didn't read music,”

but Kenny has this musical genius that he possesses and so he joined and I came through a friend." So with the exception of Tyler, no one, Tyler later drove out from Richmond, Virginia. He knew John, but with the exception of them,

we had known each other and then we later met Matty

at the music festival, kind of first music festival

that the band played and his band was playing. And because of circumstances, we lost one of our members and he wanted Matty to take his place. And so it's just been this kind of family collective how we've operated as a band with multiple songwriters

and multiple personalities. And we've gone to know one another. It's a big thing. It's a big thing. You know, we really bonded from this kind of,

we formed, you know, there was with, you know, in a very unspoken way. We formed because we connected immediately and had this kind of wild wonder about, you know, at that point in life and music

and didn't know what we were doing, and we just were meant to be together. And if we've tried to maintain that kind of uncertain wonder,

“I think, through the whole thing, that whole time.”

- That's very special. It's a big band. So I mean, there's a lot of-- - It's a big song. - Yes.

- Yes. - So that's a lot. And your music often explores themes, home, belonging, personal growth. How is your relationship with these concepts sort of evolved

through the years that you've been together? - Yeah, well, I think, I think the early days,

you know, so much, especially the first, first album was, yeah.

You know, leaving home, looking for belonging, looking, you know, kind of questioning what is home, who am I, where do I belong? And kind of, you know, a lot of the themes that occur in all of us kind of in that time frame of life,

I would say. But then it recurs, you know, and you get into your 30s and have another existential-- and 40s have another existential crisis, you know. And you kind of are reminded of the same questions.

But I think there's so much comfort and kind of moving through uncertainty in music. But there's so much comfort that you find from making it, and also engaging with it as a listener, and, you know, that's for sure.

“You know, this Maddie, did you have anything to add to that?”

- Oh, yeah, I was just going to say, like, you know, you kind of processing these things. You're talking about personal growth when you're-- when we all started music, you know, we are all, you know, in our teens, basically.

And it starts off being almost like one plus one equals two, sort of dynamic, where you have a feeling, and you're translating it through song, and it's very direct. And as you-- you kind of learn that, you work that muscle,

and you realize the catharsis that comes with that, slowly, that surely it doesn't-- as adults, it becomes more and more of like, oh, I see what I'm doing now. At first, I didn't realize what this was. And now I see what its power is, and I can almost

harness it more intentionally, if that makes sense, yes.

- And so that's kind of been really an amazing thing.

It's kind of like, as we've all matured and as a songwriters, like we've found ways of looking into what that experience is, and what that transaction is, but you're having, when you're writing, and understanding it, and it's been really interesting to like go back

and listen to records from, you know, here are the bars that are like, we're at the same point in their careers that we are now. You know, whereas before it used to be like, we're looking up to them, and now we're like, okay,

this person is the same age when they made this record that I love that I am now, and what does it mean to them at the time, and what does it mean to me to be making music at that same age? And, you know, that's just been kind of a really comforting thing,

almost, you know, to have that song. - Yeah, certainly when you have a certain amount of time behind you, and you can look back and see patterns and things that you've learned, and you didn't even realize that you were going throughout that time until you get here.

- Exactly. - It's pretty amazing.

you have a large band, and a lot of moving parts, you have spoken about seeing a therapist, the band as a whole, and all I could think of in my mind is, when you're together, you're probably more together with the band than you are with your own families,

I mean, you work really hard, and it's almost like a marriage. (laughs)

And that can always be easy.

“And I think prioritizing mental health is pretty incredible.”

I've only heard of one other band that did this, and it was Metallica. (laughs) - No, but I mean-- - You see that same documentary.

- Right, and I mean, it was pretty, it was brutal, but it was like amazing, that they did that. And that was a group of guys, which is hard enough to get people to seek some counseling, as well, you know, how is prioritizing that mental health

affected the creative process now, now that you've sort of gone through that? - Well, it's interesting, like, you know, every time that we've mentioned that or brought it up with other bands that are peers of ours,

when we encounter them on tour, they're always like,

"Wow, let's cool you guys do that." And you can see their gears spinning, like, "Why haven't we done this?" Like, we should be doing this too, because there's so much that can be green from it,

and you realize that your fortunes are tied together, whether you like it or not, you know, it's like that you're greater than the sum of your parts. And no one member necessarily has the ability to go off and strike it on their own.

And, you know, Metallica actually had sort of, ironically, one of the few where that actually did happen with Dave Mustang going off, I'm creating mega death, but it's very rare for that to happen. And so, like, realizing that we have, like, a, you know,

our fortunes are tied together, and it's important that we stay together, and it has been something that's definitely informed where we're going to answer your question. I'll see what you're talking about.

“How does it, like, impact our strong creative process, right?”

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of very fleetward-mecky to be good. It's a fleetward-mecky-in process, where literally you have a lot of songs, you can kind of are grappling with interband dynamics to be fair to be honest, you know,

and you're finding nuggets of truth in things that you're learning and you're learning from each other. And there's just as much value in that, as there is a personal relationship, or some other experience that you went through

that inspired you, and because you mentioned, we spent so much time together, that is literally, like, it doesn't end up becoming a part of, like, what occupies our minds, and what we're processing and going through, yeah.

- Two things that come to mind for me, for me songs that are incredibly impactful for me as a listener, are songs that feel like the writer was very connected to themselves from within, very honest, and I think when you aren't just a solo artist,

but you're in a collective,

“you have to get to a place where you're safe enough”

to be vulnerable, and for me, you know, songs and music, I could be more honest and songs than, you know, talking about something, you know, talking about theme, and when you have, you know, multiple relationships and then there's dynamics and groups, right?

You have to work with intention to get to a place where you feel safe with one another in order to, to kind of release and such and on a sway and create and such, and on a sway which then, if everyone's guards come down, you know, in the like the recording writing process,

is a collective, then, you know, that's another layer of connection in the process

that is so powerful, and that nuance and magic can be captured

in live takes, you know, in the music itself, and so it's just building upon this connection that starts within the individual, and then it starts moving outward, you know, and so I think therapy is necessary for that.

Just, it really gives a lot of tools in terms of communication. I think that's the biggest takeaway is just learning how to be more understanding, more curious with one another in communication.

And the second thing is that it baffles me that it isn't more of a norm. It's, I think in my mind, the infrastructure is the support bands, like labels. There should be an arm, like a mental health arm,

a holistic kind of domain that is supporting the bands because it's a pretty, it's, you know, it's like,

that's not considering the human, and it's not sustaining,

“and there's a reason why addiction is prevalent”

amongst musicians, and why, you know, it's, it's, it's mind-boggling to me, and we're moving more towards, you know, towards support. But I wish that there were, even within, there was more of a recognition and infrastructure

for that, then just kind of tertiary, you know, musicians, and, but yeah, I'm grateful that,

I'm grateful that, you know, we found this incredible,

incredible therapist, who I knew intuitively would, would, you know, she really emphasizes group dynamics, and it really, she's resonated with everyone, and she's been amazing for us. - I have to thank you for sharing that, you know,

it a lot of people assume that, you know, you have it all, you've got this great band in your, touring the world, and, you know, people don't realize how difficult it can be for artists to be together like that,

and music is a therapy in and of itself, but you still need levels of things to get yourself through life, and, and for you to share that is, is pretty astounding, actually, you know, you're letting your feeling vulnerable enough to say that,

publicly, and it, I bet it helps a lot of people to know that even the most talented and, you know, famous people actually do need some help too, and it's okay to get that, and it works. - Oh, yeah, I mean, thank you, thank you for,

for even, you know, thank you for saying that, you know,

I think I can't help it, just always, you know, be honest.

- No, of course, with it too. (laughs) - But I think that, you know, there's always, and there's always a thread of deep gratitude and understanding of the privilege and the gift that we have through everything, you know,

“and that's what, one of the, you know, drivers”

and the keeps us going, you know, and, and, you know, granted knowledge, but, you know, every relationship we're human and, and if you're human in a relationship, there's always going to be, it's always a dance of understanding and then you multiply that times so many.

And, and also, you know, when we started as a band, we were a young, we, we, we were trying to, to stay informed and be sage and all these things, but we're so, we, this was new for all of us, and we didn't know one another, so we didn't have that foundation,

and so all this is happening, and it was just, there's such an intensity and an extreme, when you're on in the industry, you know, we've extreme, our, you know, is booked for the extremes, where you're on or you're really on or you're really off,

you're gone and away or you're home and, you know,

“and so, I think it's just, it's trying to navigate”

those extremes to kind of bring them more towards the center and help the balance way. - When did you first, both discover that music had healing benefits to your faiths and to listeners of music? - Well, yeah, I think we all started making music

because we recognized that power, you know, from, you know, very, very, very young. And we, you know, whether the music, who ever experienced it, you know, going to, for me, it was Catholic Church every Sunday, and, you know,

in sharing songs with family members, my grandfather was a singer, and, you know, just the shared experience that you have with that. My parents were big huge music fans and so we grew up listening to all the classics, you know,

like, "Hey, Rob, they've great tastes." Bob Dylan Music, or Bob Dylan Records, and Neil Young Records, and Bruce Springsteen, and, you know, you know, Buddy Holly, and some music from the '50s and the '40s,

and a lot of great jazz records, too, and just pretty, you know, as an early teen/tween, I guess, you know, before I was even a teenager, I had an older brother who started learning guitar and kind of, we formed a band with our close neighbor

down the street, and it became this very immediate, like, form of processing and outlet for stuff that, you know, feelings and experiences that you couldn't, you know, quite necessarily, you know,

comprehend, you know, and so music was always that,

you know, it was always a way of transporting to some place else in a healthy way

And then, you know, come full circle and see what you'd mentioned, like, with how the music that you then write affects others

is just the most profoundly amazing experience

and affirming experience to ever have happen, you know, you can, there's nothing that can even remotely come close to it because you do realize the full circle benefit of putting yourself out there, and you've gotten so much from all the people that came before you,

and you're channeling and turning your life experiences into these new creations that are doing that for someone else, it's a profoundly gratifying thing,

“and it's easy to forget that that's what you're doing, you know,”

but like, it's just when you see it on the faces of people that come out to the shows, it's just, it's everything. - Yeah, because I think in many ways, in the creation process, I am, I think I was born this way,

but also conditioned, I don't know, you know, but I'm a deep empath, highly sensitive being, and I'm the youngest, you know, and in our family line, and you know, I can't help but just think of others a lot,

but in the music creation process, I'm not thinking about anyone else. I am, again, trying to be honest, the most honest that I can be with myself, so I can connect to the deep parts of who I am

and also be open to receiving whatever is coming from beyond me, you know? And it's, yeah, it's cathartic and healing for myself. And so it's extremely, not unexpected, but surprising every time,

“and so beautiful to know that someone is reacting”

in the same way, like to the music, to how I, I did when I was making it. And so I think there's that, you know, you can't, you can't, truth is truth can't help, but be attractive, you know, and connect.

So it's, that's the power, you know? And it's beyond, I say like the, the most powerful, you know, songs, and music can come from this place that is beyond yourself, beyond the writer, and in the room, and you're almost receiving,

you know, you're a conduit and vessel for this. And so it's outside of, it's outside of our ourselves, you know, what we're connecting with. And absolutely, and empaths can have a hard time with large crowds. But since, though, why, 'cause you're,

you're sucking in all of the energy with good and the bad, and all of it, but the weird thing is that a concert, where you have fans of your music, and your fans of making the music and performing it, and you're feeding off of each other all the good,

then that's a safe, large crowd environment for someone who makes up on all that stuff, which it just kind of dawned on me.

I've always had issues with large crowds,

and I've never been in a musician on stage, making them just feel amazing. So I, it just sort of dawned on me

“that that's how you could probably handle it.”

And that's a 100% and as a fan, you know, I think about experiences and like when I'll, you know, be in the audience, we've been lucky enough to see, you know, call the company a couple of times, and, you know, just like you look at the faces

and the tears streaming down these strangers that you don't know that are sitting in the same row as you and you sharing in this experience in this music is meant the same thing to them, as it's meant to you first for so long,

for decades and decades, your whole life. And so as a fan, you know that that's what's happening in the audience, or at least you as a performer, that's what you hope is happening in the audience. And you know that it is, when you see and you look out,

and you see those tears, and you see those smiles, and you see that release that everyone's experience experiencing, and it just gives you the ability to reinvigorate what those songs meant to you in the first place when you were writing them, and it just, yeah, I mean,

it is a spiritual experience. There's no other way of putting it like that's the whole, like that's the joy of live music and of concerts, and especially with artists that you love, it's all about, it's all about that shared sense of community

in shared history and catharsis, and all the good things. - And it's crazy that, you know, that can, it's that like power to unify, especially in like the live music setting, you know,

is I always go back to the fact that I learned a few years ago,

that the average American attends one concert per year. And so it's a rare occurrence to be in attendance at this concert, you know, and I think that there's so much power

you don't know their relationship with the music, but at nine times out of 10, they've been moved deep enough by the music to come see an experience alive, and so it's this rare occurrence for the person, but everyone is drawn there for the same reason,

and it's like, you're uniting thousands of people or are united, and connecting in various moments

and ways and songs, and that is such a powerful,

beautiful thing to have in society, and moving our collective, you know, towards unification, towards connection, in a way from division, like that is the tool that music can have live music and also just listening

to it, you know, on headphones or in your car, having that as a tool that can heal and bring us, you know, move us away from fear and more towards love on that spectrum is beyond extraordinary, and you know,

“I think we're learning there's evidence,”

there's greater and greater evidence on the neurological side of how it can heal the individual and us, the collective and our society. - Yes, listening to music, going to shows together and listening to music, all of it.

- We'll be right back with more of the music save me podcast, and by the way, if you like this podcast, you are going to love our companion podcast called Take In A Walk. It's hosted by my dear friend, Buzz night, and you can find it wherever you get your podcasts.

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In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. - A nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

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at feeps.com or the Veeps app. - I'm Clayton Neckard, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. - Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan.

He became the first bachelor

to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. - If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines?

It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. - The media is here. - This case has gone viral.

- The dating contract. - Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. - We're in such work. - This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. - I'm Stephanie Young.

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- Listen to Love Trapped on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Welcome back to the music saved me podcast. The podcast where we discuss the healing powers of music with some of the biggest names in music,

as well as up in commerce. Maddie, we'll start with you. Who are some of your favorite artists? Or songs that have truly impacted you, say it may be a particularly difficult time in your life.

- Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I mean, there's because there's countless, there's so many, I can take back to my teenage years and listening to bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam and like green day and bands that I looked up to

when I was younger and going through the trials and tribulations of early adulthood and the bachelor number two record by Emmy Man and what roof is this wallet records are just so influential and so got me through my early 20s

and Neil Young silver and gold around a similar period of time. Harvest Moon, just countless acts like that.

One of the ones that I always six out of my head

and it wasn't necessarily like a personal and difficult time but like as a nation, post 9/11, Bruce Springsteen puts out the rising and it's just this absolute, he sums up so many of the feelings we were all having in this way that I don't know how you performed that magic trick

but thank you for that, you know what I mean? And then every so often you just have to come to, I come to this realization like, oh my God, thank God, I live at the time that I live where these people gave these gifts to all of us

because I can't imagine my life without it and I can put those records on that I put on it when I was in my early 20s and then my teens have the exact same feeling that I had

“and I can remember the reason why I was going through”

something in that moment, you know, I can, I can, I can re-experience painful as it was like when I lost one of my best friends to a drug overdose or when I lost my grandparents or all these different feelings that you go through

in life and they come right back to you, you know, but then of course they're, they're few through the lens of history and all the things that you learned in process before that and after that, it just becomes,

it's just a very peaceful feeling because you get, you realize, okay, I can put this record on whatever I want to and it's like, I can't believe all the anxiety that I was having because of what I was happening today

just drips away, it's gone and I have that release again.

It's an incredible gift, so yeah, that's the moment.

Was there a question where they're like talking about your grandfather, was there a specific song that kind of in the moment

“I guess of his life's decline and mental decline that?”

Yeah, point two or yeah, you could probably Google the words. I can't remember the name of the actual artist because it was, we didn't really have it with pre-google. I was like, make it back in the day. Yeah, yeah, I took it all day, but it was like,

"Here's my song, the violetta, it's the song that's in my heart."

you know, not capable of conversation in a way other than kind of reliving stories and reliving things that he had gone through and, you know, distant, distant past. But, you know, these songs and these melodies would come back up. And he would sing them over and over again.

And he'd just kind of like, you know, have an appreciation for the staying power. It lives in a different part of you than the part of the brain that we typically access when we're, you know, responding to an email or driving down the highway or whatever it might. The case might be, it lives somewhere else, it lives, you know, in the soul.

And so it's just, it's amazing to see that happen in real time.

With someone who has a, you know, a mental decline or such a barrier. You know, something's like, like Alzheimer's, which might be right about it. Was that answer your question? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Take aides in your charity.

No. No.

“Yeah, well, I think, I think the more that I learned we learned, you know,”

but just about others, you know, a part of the brain that could only be communicated with through music is, is, and the fact that our brains have evolved, you know, to maintain this access is, is such a thing, you know, and, um, that makes me think of

the Disney film Coco that happened to be the first kind of Disney film we showed our,

our elders who's four, almost four. Yeah, I think it's just the power to be able to communicate and heal, you know, that means, the music, the power that music has to do that, um, that is beyond a talk, talking, a talk therapy or somatic therapy or, that makes me, I can't help but cry, just make you feel better.

I think almost every one of these podcasts that I've done has brought me to tears in a good way, but it's, it's, it's there, I mean, you don't see it, but I'm, I turn around on you. Yeah. It's just so special.

I'll, all of that, um, for me, can I share with you your song hurts, but it goes away. Oh, it's just, okay.

“So, tell me, first, you have to tell me about the song because, um, for me, having someone”

my husband or my best friend or someone, anyone close to me when I'm going through something they say to me, it's going to be okay. That changes everything, especially if it's someone that you trust and love and they tell you that. And just, you need to hear that sometimes, and I was just curious if you could tell me a

little bit about that song. Yeah, I guess the line that sticks out to me is like, um, I've been noticing the leaves are changing colors. Uh, it's just kind of like, it's, it's talking about the passage of time and despite the fact that we are, might be in the thick of it right now, there's beauty in, in, in the

passage of time and, and the healing lies there, I'm not the only one who feels the way to this, you know, it knows, it shows that you're, you're not the only person going through this. It's a shared experience regardless of whether or not you feel like you're at the center of it.

We've all, we're all in this together, even when it comes down to like your own personal struggles because we've, you know, everyone shares those struggles at one point or another

in their life and they are always an invitation to take the next step and, and move beyond

the plane of existence that you've been on and step towards something greater than, um, then you could, you, you would have conceptualized, uh, had you not gone through that experience in the first place. And so, yeah, like to say, it goes away, I mean, it's, it's almost like it would be better almost to say it hurts and it stays with you.

But it could get a get easier to do it with. It's, to quote the great Britney Spears stronger than yesterday, yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's one of those things where, you, it, you become stronger for it if that makes sense. Yes. Right.

As a, as a person, as a person who carries and lives with heightened anxiety, I'd say, you know, and I think that there's a lot of, there's a lot of collective pain in the endemic of, of anxiety, but, you know, emotional and mental pain, you know, and suffering that we all kind of dance through on a daily basis to varying degrees, living with anxiety, it's

“really the understanding that kind of trying to find the hope, hope is the only way to kind”

of bring you out of that and bring it through it and not thinking worst case scenario. You know, bringing you out of that cycle and that things, your thoughts aren't, it's not

straight and that resilience to be able to move forward. You know, again, music is, is one of the main tools that can bring me, bring me through that. Yeah. It's kind of funny.

You can go, you could read a thousand self-help books and before you realize like, oh, all I really needed to do was put on my favorite record and that, that have the same

effect of just release and, and self-actualization that you were looking for in the first

place.

“You know, there's a lot of like, I think we, we can all, we've all been through the part”

where you're kind of just, I mean, I can't say this is true for everyone I'm sure it is, but like, you're just overthinking everything at all the time and you're like, oh my God, I just, I've just remembered that, that Harvard's moving exists, I'm going to put Harvard the moon on it. I did that last week and I was like, okay, this, this is, everything is good now.

You know, you know, you're able to quiet the noise, you're able to quiet the noise. And it's like a form of meditation really, you know, and I guess the reference kind of songs, particular songs that were pointing for me, along my life, you know, thus far, you know, as, as a child, I grew up in a musical household with my mother being a violinist, violist, orchestra teacher, so I couldn't help but be surrounded and play

violin since I was very young. And so classical music, I was just, we listened to that so much and also I have two other sisters and then my mother that, that I grew up with and we would sing hymns a lot as well. There are moments when I remember singing, singing hymns in my grandma's Cadillac and small town, Minnesota, where we moved to for a handful of years as a kid and being the

youngest I would always add the, the last harmony, you know, I'm fit in where I could,

which is a lot, you know, it applies to being this band too, with my harmonies, I'm always kind of the last, the last voice to find their way, one classical song that I always come back to, now I'm playing for my one daughter who calls it the most, so, so beautiful and makes her fall asleep at the same time, is Davy C's Clare de Luna, which is just one of the most that it makes me feel all of the emotions whenever I put that song on, as well

“as carnival of the animals, the swansong by Sassong, both of those tracks, I think I could”

go to, you know, for the rest of my life and, and I've cared with me, you know, since being a kid, but then moving forward, green day's good riddance, time of your life, came out right when I was 12, like I said, we had moved, I'm born and raised Seattle, all my extended family were in Minnesota, including my, you know, grandma corn in small town and it was kind of near the end of her life, so my parents moved us all out to become, to become

a relationship with her and, and the rest, and for me, I had quite an existential crisis and realized that, that has, then, you know, since then, given me this kind of fierce independence and understanding, you know, like being comfortable with isolation and, you know, later my life really lends itself to, to, um, writing songs and for the first time, and, et cetera, but, um, I remember the day that we, that we moved away and we were, we had, like, an

overnight, actually, with, with our church community and they put green day's good riddance as the soundtrack to the photos, the photo, like, uh, the slideshow, I was profoundly moved by that song. For my sisters, there is sadness for the leaving, um, of the relationships community and now, you know, we're moving back to Seattle. For me, there was, it was almost

“tears of joy and I'll never forget, just the visual of me, like looking out of the rear”

of the car and, and that's all waving, you know, goodbye, but for me, it, it was, you know, these, um, tears of, of joy, knowing, you know, I'm, good rinse, like, I'm happy to be leaving, you, I'm happy to be moving on, um, and moving back to, to where I feel like my home really is,

you know, back in Seattle and, uh, yeah, I'll never, you know, forget the, the points of that song

and, and, and come to think of it, you know, there's such a, like, violin, um, instrumental in the middle of that song, you know, for quite a long time, um, and, uh, that obviously resonates with, with me, but speaking of him, you know, growing up with that when I, when we moved home to Seattle, probably a couple years later, right before I started getting a guitar and, and writing, um, writing music, Sister Act 2, my sister and I, would sing to, you know, the classic him, his eyes on the

that song, um, and there's such profound power in that, and that rendition in that song, um,

“and that really opened up my world to, you know, Lauren Hill, and the message of education or solo”

stuff, and, you know, she was a huge, um, huge influence on me, you know, musically and just seeing

the power of music. That's pretty powerful. There's something about harmonies, too, that I don't

know what it is. Yes. Yes. Yes. We'll do that. Yes. Oh, my gosh. I wish I knew what it was. Still trying to figure out. Yeah. Um, but we're learning. Yes. Now, I have a couple of more things that I want to ask you about before I let you go, because you've been so generous with your time. First of all, um, I wanted to comment on something you said earlier, it's almost as if the way you were describing music was your record shelf for a lack of a better word, or the thing you go through

to find your albums, or however you get your music, which is kind of dating myself now,

“is kind of like your, your medicine cabinet, totally. She go in there and you have a problem and”

you, you're looking for which one is going to help you get through that moment. Yes. That was just a comment. Um, your new album, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is more about what you had just spoken about. Hope and light. Can you, can you tell us a little bit more what we're going to find on that new album? We've been going through this period of not knowing who we are, not, not necessarily being satisfied with where we are. Uh, you know, not necessarily appreciating

the, the things that are beautiful that are already there. And the idea is that, you know,

we're stepping forward into something new that feels that's always been there, but we're only

now opening up the aperture, opening up our ability to, to see it and to take it in for the, you know, again, as if it was, uh, you know, for the first time. Uh, and so it's kind of like, um, those moments in life where you've, you, whether you've met to or not, you, you've kind of been, having sort of some sort of long dark night of the soul. Uh, so I've always loved that phrase, and I feel like it's very apt for songwriters and myself, like you go through these periods of

despair and depression and, and they seem like they're going to last forever. And all the sudden, whatever the, the lessons that were in that period of time, they can yield in your brain. You somehow, you, you've translated them into the thing that, that, or the, into the lesson that you needed to learn at that point in your life. And all the sudden, it's like, okay, I have this new, I get to, you know, I get to take a walk down the street and all the sudden, it just feels

different again. I, I can, I'm, I'm taking notice of the color of the moss on the branches. You know,

I'm, I'm starting to see the things that were always there, but for a while, you were shut off too.

And so there's, there's sort of, there's hope in that. And, you know, one other line in the song is, time was made for running out. Don't know why it took us so long. You know, the sun was made for coming up, even though the night is long. So it's kind of just giving you, again, the reassurance that, you know, you've been through this before, it's going to happen again, but the sun always rises at the end of the day, or at the beginning of the day, or at the beginning of the day.

You're a long neck shift. Well, in terms of where you are, the wrong analogy to use in that moment. It sounds like to looking where you're saying is, is, you know, finding those silver linings when things seem really the darkest, and then when you realize what they are, it's time to celebrate that and, and be okay, which is amazing. It's, and you were, it's almost as if you two were, or your band collective is, it was picked

to do this because you, you sound like musical therapists, but you're giving of yourself in your skills and talents to those that need it desperately, and it's interesting. It's

“interesting to hear, from your side, how much you go through this, too. And I think that's”

so important. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I am really excited to hear about the rivers, and is it the rivers and road foundation? The rivers and roads. Yeah, and roads. Tell us about that. Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, so the rivers and roads foundation really, the heart mission of it is, is to kind of allow greater access to music education for, for

support and access to services for musicians. So a lot of, you know, kind of it was a very natural extension for the band and how really understanding how we can support the community that supported our band in the early days and the foundation leading to where we are. And again, going back to understanding the power of music and, and as a, as a necessary tool to have in, in, you know, for in society, young society, especially. And, and also the, having a compassion,

understanding of the need for mental health support for artists and for crew, you know, who support artists on, on the road and in venues and set. And we're lucky that we have a bunch of really

amazing pre-existing nonprofits in Seattle. And we kind of allocate, we're with the fund. Yeah,

so we've been able to like over the, you know, each year designated different recipient of the funds that we've been able to raise. And so, and so there's an infrastructure, you know, because our own infrastructure is more just a fundraiser, essentially, and then we're able to give that to different organizations that can then translate that into direct, you know, a person to person benefit to, you know, in different communities within, within Seattle. Also, that's great. You guys, just keep doing

what you're doing. I'm, I'm so impressed. And you're so lovely. And it was so wonderful to meet you and, um, at Maddie and Charity, please come back and see us again and share more great stories from your

career. I, I suspect you have many, many, many more years of performing and giving back and, um,

I'm just blessed to know you, and to me. Oh, thank you so much. I'm grateful. Thank you for having this type of, um, hotcast that really is not, you know, as you were saying earlier, not the gossip, uh, a fluff train of sorts. It's, you know, really getting to the heart of what makes this human, you know, and what connects us. And so, so thank you for getting us a platform and for your time to share it with us. It's really true. It's, it's like what music does, you know, we could have,

we could talk to you all day about this. You know what I mean? And so that's really happy.

“And that, well, you have to start still. We've got a few more out of it. So much smarter talk.”

All right. Well, listen, part two down the road. Go out. Yeah. Um, you know, kick some ass, take some names and just keep doing what you're doing. Keep rocking the free world. And I'm sure that we will cross paths again. Um, and we'll have part, part do. Absolutely. Yes, please. We love you. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, doubt the case of Lucy Letby. We unpack the story of

an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story?

Adam has been based at first. The moment you look at the whole picture of the case,

Colach. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my god, I think she might be innocent. Listen to doubt the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Show Interesting, host of the spirit dotter podcast, or we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today,

“I'm talking with my dear friend, Christi Williams. It can change you in the best way possible,”

dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns, the embodiment of Pisces intuition, with Capricorn power moves. Just so I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the spirit dotter podcast, starting on February 24th on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Next Monday, our 2026 iHeart podcast awards are happening live in South by Southwest. This is the biggest night in podcast thing. We'll honor the very best in podcasting

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