529 - How About Logical?

When a group of women discover that they've all dated the same prolific con artist. They take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. I hope radio app Apple podcasts or whatever you get your podcast. Sometimes a suspect is found guilty before a verdict is ever read in court. On the WickedWords podcast, I talk with the writers who dig deep into the cases that changed history, including Marsha Clark, who went from prosecuting one of the most famous murder cases to writing crime fiction.

It doesn't matter that you didn't take part in the murder. If you were at the scene at all, you're guilty of murder. Every week, the real story is revealed. Join us every Monday for new episodes of WickedWords. Listen to WickedWords on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Just like great shoes, great books take you places.

“Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.”

I think any good romance it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club from Hello Sunshine and iHeart podcast. Where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, booktocks, stars and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile.

Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Rot to you by cotton, the fabric of our lives. [Music]

Hello and welcome to my favorite murder.

That's Georgia Heartstar. That's Karen Calcara. And we're here to present some things to your real quick. I'm going to tell you a couple things. It's going to be fast, like an hour and 52 minutes. Let's get you out of here. And now, yeah, boom. Don't worry about it.

Okay, I have to follow this out immediately because we put lotion on before every show. It's like our ritual. It's our ritual. And I was putting my nana on to tell you that I got my nails done by a murderer. Now today, this murderer named Jess, she was awesome old school murderer.

And then I just realized I was putting lotion on that I forgot to put my fucking wedding ring back on. Does that mean it's at the, I don't know. It's at my house. I took off the house, like God, but I just was like, I don't have a wedding ring on. And this goes up, people are going to be like, are they okay? The DMs are going to start.

Yeah.

“And people are going to be a WhatsApp girl.”

Plus it looks like Vince left for fucking WrestleMania this morning. It looks like I'm like husband's gone. Take off my ring for the weekend. Yeah, that's too many coincidences. It is.

I'm calling him now. I don't know. I didn't see her anywhere specifically. But I know I can feel it. Hashtag. What's even happening?

Did I put that ring on that wrist one? He did give me this one too. Okay. Yeah. And I did what that can't purpose.

It has to do with my story. So you do. There we go. There. It's all day.

Oh my God. I almost got a divorce just there. I don't know where. Really quick before the show started. spontaneous divorce.

It could be. I mean, I think it has been. It must be. In the past called Utah. You know, it's funny.

“I was thinking about when we were in Austin for the I heart radio awards.”

And a girl came up to us afterwards and was just saying hi. And then said, I'm the one that you called a bitch on cameo. What? Remember that? No.

I could have sworn you were standing next to me. A girl came up and was like, Ha ha ha. I spent $250 on cameo for you to tell my friend. Happy birthday or something like that.

And she goes and you called me a stupid bitch.

And then I never got my cameo.

And I was like, we're not a cameo. We're not a cameo. We're not a cameo. We're not a cameo. We've never been.

Don't ever. So she gave her money to some. People are telling to be us. Not only pretending to be us, but insulting people after they give them their money. I think that.

Let's look it up right now. Oh, my God. I think I have cameo. See, you can look it up. Who did I've got to do a cameo once?

Well, you got all my. Um, Kevin, is it Kevin Hart? No, no, no, no. That's a comedian. The wrestler guy.

Kevin Von Air. No. Now it's the guy that was on Detroiters that plays Tim Robbins's dad. Oh, he was a stripper in the stripper club. In Magic Might.

Magic Might. That's it. Big fan. I've gotten two cameos from him. Let's see.

Let's see. Kevin Nash. Yes. Kevin Nash. Okay, here's people are also asking why is my favorite.

We're doing canceled.

Who is? Okay. Wait a second. That's a fan called video right there. We can answer.

“Those questions, but it's going to be behind a paywall.”

I don't know. I just nothing's coming up, but there's. There's. There's not a hand me. That's so horrible.

I know. There's also a chance that girl mistook me for somebody else. And she was like, oh, I meant the giggly squad girls. There's something like, you know, man. Oh, I've less today.

We get fucking mixed up for the giggly squad girls. So like, please, can I get where 40 years younger? Oh, the giggly squad. You know what's going on? Your aunties.

Oh, my God. Nora actually told me that's her favorite podcast. I just stared into her face. I know. What am I supposed to do here?

No, that's no. Yeah. Everybody gets to like what they want, but please don't. Oh, it's okay. Money for.

Also, we would never charge $250 to hear us.

This is free. This is free. Yeah, I hear hold on. Happy birthday. Ashley.

Happy birthday. Ashley. What? They're all actually. Ashley too.

I get what we're doing. Okay. Ashley with me. E-E-E-Y. Um, do you have anything?

Did you see the baby Jessica thing? Yes. So, baby Jessica, who you've covered? Say that, show title.

“In episode two to one, symbolic violins.”

Oh, who was down a well, and she was a baby, was arrested on assault charges. No fun. No fun. Did you already watch "Trust Me the Lost Prophet?"

We're in the middle of everything. Okay. I have to start it, but everyone keeps talking to me about it, where I'm just like, "I know I know I have to watch it." Did you watch the movie with,

it's called "The Drama" and "Daea," and Robert Patterson? Is that a thing? Pattinson? Whatever.

Okay. No. You haven't seen that? I'm surprised. No.

I haven't gone to the movies in so long. Okay. It's like the first time I want to go to the movie in ages, because there's a spoiler, and I know by the time it goes on streaming,

I'm going to have heard it. Yes. And I'm trying to avoid it, but I just need to go see it. That's a big part of movies. Yes.

I just want to know first. Yeah. I want to know authentically, not reading a fucking New York Post or something. Yes. The cinema has been ruined in many ways, for all of us.

But that way where I watch people or read people fighting about it, and all these opinions. And then I'm like, "Well, I don't want to have any of these opinions. I'll have a brand new opinion." And then it's like, "What?"

Then you go to the movies and you're doing a whole different thing. Yeah. It's such an irritating way to have pre-processed entertainment. Well, thank God there's alcohol in theaters now, because it's true.

I don't know how other people do it. Two-and-a-half fucking hours just sitting there without a fucking soda, please. You know what I did see recently? Johnny Pemberton is a star of a movie. I think it's called "Mermaid."

Yes. And it's indie. And we went to see it. It was like it's first showing in LA. It was a great.

It was so... I adore Johnny as a comedian. Yeah. To see him as a kind of serious kind of comedic. Because it's a creepy movie.

It's a lot going on. Definitely worth the watch.

But to watch Johnny be like the leading man is amazing.

The leading man who looks 20. It's like... I know. I know. And so many people love him from fallout.

People love him from all kinds of stuff he's already done. I have everything. He's been in so many things. That's really exciting. Yeah, mermaid.

Why am I playing Fancy with you? Should we? Do you need more room over there? That means we should get started. That's probably.

That's probably. That's used signaling to me under the table. Oh, hey, we have a podcast network. It's called exactly right media. It's correct.

It's not so pure mind. Yep. Here's some highlights from it. Over on our podcast, the knife. Hannah and Pasha revisit the 1995 murder of 21 year old Jennifer Evans in Virginia Beach.

And then advocate Erin Lottman joins them to walk through Dusty Turner's case. And all the questions surrounding his conviction. And then this week on brief recess. It's a hope core episode. It's a miracle in Melissa reveal.

They share a birthday week. And then they don't know that. No, it's like, I just love it. A big reveal. He's an immigration lawyer, literally fighting ice in the court every day.

And then they're like, you know what? We have the same birthday week. It's like, yep, get it where you can. Absolutely. And Seth Porge's director of class action park.

Oh, my God. Well, it was such a good documentary. And the upcoming Santa Con documentary returns to discuss news at the founder of Santa Con

was charged with federal wire fraud for stealing over $1 million from the organization.

Where did they get $1 million from? What organization? Is it the whole thing disorganization?

“I think they get money to give presents to children in need.”

I hope so. But no, because he took all that money and got posted. We're drunk. Allegedly. And then harassed the citizens of New York.

Exactly. Okay. Then of course, disgraceland are newest hit podcasts. So exciting to have Jake Brennan here with us. They're back this week covering depression mode.

Jake tells the story of excess addiction and the West Hollywood overdose that left front man. David Gahan clinically dead before the band's unlikely resurrection. I love this.

It's not the history from start to finish.

“It's just like, here's what life was like during this time when whatever happened happened with them.”

Yeah, it's so fucking fascinating. It's such good writing. Yeah, such good writing. And then we have a little treat for you. The disgraceland feed drop hits the mfm feed.

So if you haven't listened to disgraceland yet, we're making it easy for you. Disgraceland. Disgraceland. Disgraceland yet. We're making it easy for you.

But also get your shit together. And please go follow and rate review subscribe to disgraceland. And it's celebrity spin off Hollywoodland. What are you doing? Hollywoodland.

I'm trying. I'm trying to upstate you as you. Just break your shit over there. I literally tried to move this very subtly and yanked this off. Over on Hollywoodland, Jake looks at subgourney weaver through very strange and unsettling lens.

He's telling the story of how one death row inmate came to see her as a goddess sent to battle evil. Wow. Not a hard thing to like assumption to jump to. I don't know if that's not true, but it's scary. It's very scary.

Yeah. All right. Well, you go first. I go first. Great. There's two golden rules that any man should live by.

Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

He plays stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anison Field. And in this new season of the girlfriends.

Oh my god, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Jake Brennan. And on my podcast Disgraceland, I tell stories from the dark side of the music business. And I'm thrilled to announce that now, Disgraceland, and its celebrity spin-off Hollywood land,

have found a new home here at the exactly right network in partnership with I Heart podcast. You can binge over 250 episodes of Disgraceland's Back Catalog, and listen to new episodes every Tuesday, bonus episodes on Thursday, and rewinds on Sunday, now on exactly right. Listen to Disgraceland, and Hollywood land on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just like great shoes, great books take you places.

“Through unforgettable love stories, and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.”

I think any good romance gives me this feeling of butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, from Hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcast. Where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, booktock stars,

and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, brought to you by Cotton, the fabric of our lives. So, I'm gonna turn it around on you.

Oh, shit. The story I'm doing is one of the most notorious cold cases in recent history. Oh my god. It begins with the 2010 disappearance of a young woman named Shannon Gilbert. Police begin to search for her on the beach side roadway, where she's last seen, and that's when they begin to find one horrific discovery after another.

The remains of 10 women are found between December 2010 and April 2011, setting off a chain of events that now more than 15 years later has finally been solved. This is the story of the Gilgogi murderous shit. Yeah, neither us have ever done it.

We've never done it, and I was talking to Molly about it, our producer,

“and we're like, do you think Marin could turn this around?”

What we can do it and try to be timely because all of this is happening right now. Marin's like, hold my beer. Were you planning on covering this before it got solved? Like it was not your list at all? No, yeah, not same.

Not on my list because to me, it felt like, and especially all the things I've seen over the years, it's just like, what we know, this is where all these bodies have been found. Right. And that's about it.

Totally. And like, we have some suspects, and we have some ideas. Yeah. And then, of course, there was like, well, let's get into it. Let's do it.

I was literally just going to start talking it out and then repeat it later.

But thanks, Marin, our researcher for turning it around and always doing such an amazing job.

That idea, it's like, wait, can we, this is breaking news?

Hey, what are you doing this week? Can you just do this? Yeah. Mary and Ali, my God. Yeah.

The best. Our researchers on the show are the best in the past. Absolutely. So the main source used in this story today is the writing of journalist Robert Kolker, who has reported extensively on this case.

He actually published a book about it called Lost Girls. And also he did a deep dive in the New York Times magazine called The Botched Hunt for the Gilgoat Beach Killer. And then the rest of the sources are in our show notes. We start on the early morning of May 1st, 2010.

And Shannon Gilbert is in a car headed for Long Island. She is just 23 years old. But she's been through a lot. She's endured some very difficult things in her childhood, including having to go to foster care at one point.

“But Shannon's friends remember her as a radiant, popular girl with undeniable talent.”

Because going through hard stuff in life also really galvanizes you. Totally. And who you are.

And the thing I've never heard about Shannon before is that Shannon can really sing.

Oh. Reporter Robert Kolker describes her as having a "sulfil voice" that gave some of her friends chills and made others cry. Wow. So she's just a good singer.

Yeah. In eighth grade, she was cast as Miss Hanigan in her school's production of Annie. And that was a life-changing experience for her. She realizes she wants to be a star. After she graduates from high school, she does try to make that dream come true.

But as many of us know, it's very hard to make a living when that is what your goal is. So Shannon sometimes earns money through sex work. And she advertises as an escort on Craigslist and in Backpage. So when she gets a booking typically, she'll use a mail driver to take her to the appointments, both for transportation and for her personal safety.

“And so that's what she does on May 1st, 2010.”

Her driver is a man who she's not only worked with before, but she considers a friend. His name is Michael Pack. He picks her up. They head down Ocean Parkway, which is that long road that runs right next to the ocean and spans a very long swath of Southern Long Island.

Parts of Ocean Parkway are very dark at night, except for like the cars coming in the other direction. Shannon's driver, Michael pulls off the road into a gated community in Oak Beach. As Shannon disappears into her client's home, the driver waits outside in the car. And everything is basically routine until around 5 a.m. Also, I just say the client is a man named Joseph Brewer.

I think it's important to start talking about the men that are involved in these cases. It's weird because I just caught myself doing that where it's like, "Oh, well, we don't have to get into that." Yeah. But we're getting into Shannon's whole life.

So Joseph Brewer is in this too. And that should be, I think, standard.

So there's a lot we don't and may never know about what happened that night.

But what we do know is that at one point around 5 a.m. Shannon calls 911.

“And she sounds terrified and disoriented.”

She can't explain where she is or what's happening to her. She just says someone's trying to kill her. This is the most chilling part, but also none of this story. I feel like what I've gotten out there. If this weird chilling thing hadn't happened almost exactly.

Exactly. It made people pay attention. Yes. It was already going on for years. Yes.

People like rock being moved. And this victim who heard death while entirely senseless actually brings the authorities to all of these other cold cases that are just there. Like, just right there. So the 911 recording of the call has been released since you can listen to it.

And on it, you can hear both Joseph Brewer and Michael Pack talking to Shannon in the background. But it's hard to make out or make sense of what's going on. What we know from here is based on witness statements. Shannon's client says that she suddenly started to panic when she was in his house. He went outside to ask the driver for help getting her out of the house, getting her to leave.

And then the driver and the client both tried to calm her down while still inside the house.

With the goal of basically trying to get her into the car.

But because Shannon is so terrified, it doesn't work. And after a few minutes, her driver states that he goes back to the car, unsure of what to do presumably. And that's when he watches Shannon bolt out of this house and sprint into the darkness. What we do know now is that she went and knocked on some neighbors doors. And actually at least one of those neighbors brought her inside.

But then she was still so freaked out. And the thing I keep thinking of, this is all theory and opinion. But what I keep thinking of is that she got drugged. And I mean, kind of mean with fucking do that to you immediately. Right.

Or just like any drug worse that you think you're here or handling things this way. And that's when you know it's not good and you're not in control. We've all been there. The drugs that we knew we took. We freaked the fuck out.

And then not knowing that you took them. Yeah. That's like, that's worse.

Yeah. So being drug. Yeah. Also known as being drug. Yeah.

Being drug.

“So Michael Pax says he tries to find her.”

He drives around for a while looking for her. He never finds her. And so he goes home assuming she just find a way to get back to New Jersey herself. Not the job of a driver in that scenario. Yeah.

The problem is Shannon never finds her way back to New Jersey.

And her worried boyfriend there quickly reaches out to the driver. He admits that he left a long island without her. The two reportedly call around to different precincts. No one's seen her. So her boyfriend files a missing person's report.

And that's it. Basically Shannon's case gets almost no media attention. As author Robert Kolker writes, quote, a missing sex worker rarely does. So now we're back on Long Island. And investigators begin searching for Shannon where she was last seen.

Including the coastal stretch off Ocean Parkway along Oak Beach and nearby Gilgo Beach. The terrain is marshy and uneven. And because it's spring turning to summer. It's also crawling with poison ivy and very thick brambles. Very hard to search.

Looks very swampy like Florida. Right. And it's a part of beach where it truly is like there's houses. There's Ocean Parkway. There's these brambles sand and the ocean right there.

Yeah. So the police continue to search throughout the year. I don't know how often, but it does continue.

And then as fault turns to winter that overgrowth is finally less thick.

And on December 11th, seven months after Shannon was last seen, police dogs hit on human remains. They found these remains hidden deep in the brambles bound with strips of burlap. Two days later, they find three more burlap bound sets of remains. So they basically stumble upon a graveyard that they are there just to get additional evidence for the first remains. And then it's another and another and they're bound the same way with the same material.

Same size of assuming woman. I mean, like, yeah, horrifying. None of the remains belong to Shannon Gilbert. When the DNA tests come back investigators identify 24 year old Melissa Barthelamy, who had been missing for over a year.

She'd gone missing in 2009, last seen at her apartment in the Bronx. And like Shannon, she was ambitious. She dreamed of opening her own hair salon. She's a really talented hairdresser. She did sex work to pay the bills.

Melissa was very close with her family who clearly loved her very much. In fact, in July of 2009, right before she went missing, her little sister Amanda was planning to come and visit her in New York. In a July 11th phone call, they talked through Amanda's upcoming trip. And the next day, July 12th, Melissa set out to meet a client on Long Island.

And she was never seen again.

The parents devastated her family and her sister Amanda once said, quote, "She was not only my blood sister, she was my sole sister." So they were very close, obviously. Another body identified as 25 year old, Maureen Brainered Barnes of Norwich Connecticut.

She was reported missing in July of 2007. And she'd last been seen in New York City.

“Her loved ones remember her as being creative, courageous, and gifted with words.”

Sometimes she did sex work to pay family bills. But what she really loved was writing poetry. And she loved to write rap lyrics. She had two children and her daughter Nicolette, who's now an adult, has said that losing her mom, quote, drastically changed the trajectory of my life.

There were countless times I needed her, and she was not there. I remember she read to me every night. And now I can no longer remember the sound of her voice. That's hard. Yeah. The next remains to be identified

along to 22 year old Megan Waterman of Scarborough, Maine. Her family has said that they believe she was forced into sex work. Author Robert Kolker reports Megan's boyfriend, the man she considered the love of her life, was seen by others as quote, "her pimp and abuser."

Sad. She sometimes saw clients in New York. She was last seen leaving a long island hotel in June of 2010. Presumably to meet a client, back home in Maine, Megan has a young daughter named Lily,

who she loved very much. Megan's been called a quote, "fun, caring, and loving mom." Lily's in her teens now and has talked about the pain of losing her mother. Saying quote, "I still wonder what her voice sounded like or her laugh.

“I do remember missing her and always wondering when she was coming back.”

I don't wish this on anyone. The pain I went through or go through." On top of that, because what it is getting me, when your mom dies, especially when you're young, it's devastating.

And for young girls, it's like, yes. It's foundationally devastating.

And then the idea that anybody would treat your mom's death,

like it was less important, right? Then she deserved it too.

“People would, like, that's what people say.”

Yes. And to feel that and not care as much about your own mother, that's devastating. It's just the authority moralizing. Copy, moralizing.

This doesn't matter, this does. And that's what this story is all about. Totally. At the end of the day, is people thinking that they can classify human beings that way. The final set of remains are identified as those of 27-year-old Amber Costello,

who lived in West Babelon, New York, at the time of her disappearance in September 2010. So it was just months after Megan Waterman went missing. And Amber struggled with addiction, so she sometimes picked up sex work. She was last seen leaving her apartment to get picked up by a client.

And on her way out the door, she tells her roommate, quote, "If my sister calls tell her I love her." So these four women, Melissa Mourine, Megan and Amber, become known as the Gil Go Four. And because of the similarities,

there remains being found in the same area, wrapped in burlap, the use of online escort ads, and the fact that they were all young, very petite, white women.

“Many people assume that a single person is responsible for their murders.”

Right? The serial killer theories start immediately. Yeah. And with good reason, right? But the Suffolk County police, who have the jurisdiction over this case,

don't publicly confirm this at first.

The commissioner at the time tells the press, quote, "I don't want anyone to think we have a Jack the Ripper running around Suffolk County with blood dripping from a knife. God forbid." Yeah.

Because then we won't have tourists coming. I mean, it's, yeah. We're stuck in jaws for the rest of our lives. And instead, it's like, "No, get on this right now." Yeah.

And solve it right now. Statements like this, of course, don't sit well with the victim's families. And they along with the public start connecting the dots that maybe there is a long island, serial killer. And that is what's being discovered.

But if you know anything about this case, you've already read about the widely reported procedural missteps

“at the Suffolk County Police Department,”

despite having access to cell phone and internet data because the victims used their phones to contact their clients. Statements from the people who knew these women among many other leads to chase. The police just somehow don't initially identify any suspects

or persons of interest at all. Like talk to all the sex offenders in the area. You know what I mean? Like four basics. Or how about just the sex clients in the area?

Go to those rich people, neighborhoods and say, "Who among you are hiring?" And we need to talk to you in a series way. But God forbid, it's a professional man that gets questions. Right.

In fact, they turn down the FBI's help. Don't ever do that. Reporting suggests that the Suffolk Police had serious internal corruption and misconduct issues at the time. Right.

The Robert Kolker describes the department as being in a "ethical freefall." This may have hampered if not totally frozen any real investigating into these deaths. Right.

As implicit biases around sex workers and what they do and do not deserve go completely unchecked. And that's not to say that there weren't people that were there. Like if they were still looking for her from the beginning of 2010 until the winter,

then someone cared enough to keep on going back out there. Right. That definitely was happening. But when the system is set up like that, not a chance.

So per Kolker's reporting at one point. This is going to make you very mad. Like it made me. The then chief of detectives publicly victim blames the Gilgoe for pointing out that they were

quote willing to get into a car with a stranger. Fuck you. That's called Uber. You fucking do it every goddamn day. Yeah.

He also called it a quote consolation that the killer was targeting a specific group of people, sex workers, and not the general public. Oh, my God. Yeah.

It's an infuriating attitude for local enforcement to display, especially when these homicides fit into an even larger pattern of violence and murder on Long Island. Several sets of human remains have been discovered

in this area going back to the mid-90s. Holy shit. It's not new. Yeah. And they include 20-year-old Jessica Taylor of New York City,

whose remains were discovered in Manerville in July of 2003. She had gone missing from the port authority bus terminal in Manhattan days before the discovery of her body. And 24-year-old Valerie Mack of Philadelphia, who disappeared in the year 2000,

her remains were discovered 11 years later also in Manerville. 34-year-old New Yorker Karen Rodriguez remains

are first discovered on nearby Fire Island in 1996,

which is the same year she went missing. And the remains of 28-year-old Sandra Castilla,

living in New York City, are also IDED.

“And she was found in Southampton in 1993.”

She had vanished only days earlier.

So Sandra Castilla was one of the first of these bodies

and then it just kept happening. Right. I mean, everyone after that could have been saved. If there had been enough of a... One would think. So we don't know much about those women.

Authorities have alleged that Jessica Valerie and Karen worked as escorts with police stopping short of describing Sandra as doing the same. And instead calling her lifestyle "substantially similar" to that of a sex workers.

Whatever that means. Obviously there's much more to these people than the jobs that they paid the bills with. They all had people in their lives who cared about them and wondered what happened to them.

Fortunately, the Suffolk County Police Department does experience some serious overhauling in the coming years. And as investigators continue working, they'll go for a case. They begin to find even more remains off of ocean parkway.

I mean, that's... It's fucking crazy. Yeah. The amount of bodies. And the idea that anyone would let anybody say no thanks

FBI when that's what's happening.

“Do you want to be like, "Oh, you're so..."”

What's it called? Sure of yourself that you don't think you need them. But no, it's actually your corrupting. You don't want them to figure that out. That's the real fucking thing.

That's why corruption is so fucked up. I mean, obviously it is. But also it keeps out like any possibility of justice. Guys. You guys.

Why do we have to keep doing this podcast? Can't we run out of fucking stories? Please let us run out. Okay. This includes more remains belonging to Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack,

and Karen Vergada all found in the spring of 2011, suggesting that those remains had been scattered. And then into December 2011, more than a year after she went missing, investigators finally find Shannon Gilbert's phone,

clothing, and ID on Oak Beach, not far from where she was last seen. And a few days later, her remains are finally located in a marsh, off ocean parkway, about a quarter of mile from those belongings. So it won't be until 2015 after sustained pressure

from the victims loved ones. And I believe it's Shannon's mother that just goes to town and is like, yep, I'm not going away. I'm not going away. Just yeah.

It won't be until 2015 after sustained pressure from the victims loved ones. And under a new Suffolk County police commissioner, that the FBI is invited back into the investigation. Welcome.

And the real breakthrough comes years after that in 2022

when a dedicated task force is put together to investigate these murders specifically. 2022. Yeah. 11 years later.

“Like the shame you should feel that it's taken that long.”

Even put together a task force, little unsolved it. Task force first. Yeah. Please. With fresh eyes, the task force pours over case files,

evidence and statements collected by earlier detectives, and they quickly hit on a statement provided by Amber Kustellos roommate at the time of her disappearance. He had told police about a quote, "Oger-like client of Amber's

who drove a green Chevy avalanche pickup truck." Could he be more specific? Like, just he's telling you. Yeah. Have you seen the documentary that he is in

that the roommate is in? There we are. No. He's just the best. He's like a character out of it, you for you.

Like, got to watch him. I love him. Yes. So just these people who are like just trying to get by in their day-to-day.

And suddenly they have to take up the, like, I need to get my roommate justice. So I told you who did it. Yeah. You only were fucking listened to me.

Yeah. Marin writes, "File that information away for a second." Yeah. Okay.

So long as established by this point, is that Melissa Maureen, Megan and Amber, the Gilgo 4, they'd all been contacted by someone using a burner phone shortly before they disappeared.

Did I even know where you get a burner phone? In the mall? That one of the-- Oh, yes. The black market internet.

Isn't that what they call it? The silver ones? That's traceable, isn't it? I don't know. I don't know.

I hope I never have to. You hope you do? Absolutely. I'm like, then. Look.

You kind of found attention. Frank calling people. Someone had also used a burner phone and Melissa's own phone to repeatedly contact Melissa's little sister Amanda.

So fucking disgusting. It's gravy. That's the one who is planning a trip to meet her sister in New York. While Melissa was actively missing,

Amanda is 15 years old, and she says a man would be on the other line, taunting her. At one point telling her he'd raped and murdered her sister.

Oh my god, the depravity. It's the same with a fucking Golden State killer, like, yes. You are so sick in a way

that we will never understand.

but at the same time it's like,

and that's why women choose the bear.

“The bear doesn't call you for years afterwards.”

Exactly. Okay. Burner phones are tricky to trace. The whole point of having a burner phone. But calls made from these phones,

still ping nearby towers. I didn't know that. Police had already figured out these calls typically hit towers in Midtown Manhattan and on Long Island,

particularly in the town of Massapika. By 2022, when the task force is at work, Melissa's family had long been begging police to investigate those locations more fully. Now the task force does.

Hoping they can find a man who matches the description of an ogre who owns a Chevy avalanche, who has connections to Midtown Manhattan and Massapika.

And it doesn't take long for them to land on a name. And that name is Rex Heurman. Doesn't take long except a decade to land. It doesn't take long for the task force

who is assigned to do some decade later. Basic fucking research.

And these families having to beg.

59-year-old Rex Heurman described by some acquaintances as "a big goofy guy" and others as "cold and distant" kind of creepy. Men, women. Is that what you were going to say?

“No, I was going to point to the hometown”

that we just recently did. Yes, that's right. That's right. We'll have come out before this episode. I don't think so.

No, I can't lead her. Breaking news to this thing. Yeah. We've got a mini-sode coming up where you can hear from someone who wrote

in sort of personal relationship with this guy. Right. Worked in here and around. Yeah. Okay.

So Rex Heurman lives in Massapika. He works in Midtown Manhattan where he has an architecture firm. His personal cell phone records show that he's used his cell phone

in no same areas as the burner phone has been used. Many of our victims went missing at times when heurman's wife and kids were away on trips without him.

This is all compelling circumstantial evidence, but there's also physical evidence and new ways to test DNA versus what was available earlier in the investigation.

I mean, you think about 2011 versus 2026. It's... Crazy. It's huge.

Yeah. Big difference. Now detectors take a few hairs found at crime scenes and compare them against a DNA sample

pulled from a pizza box that heurman had thrown away. Can you see the footage of it? They have it on security. Of them getting that pizza box?

“I think they've been getting the pizza box.”

They definitely have a arresting him. Yes. That day that started happening. It was again this, like, it's finally happening.

Yeah. The DNA's consistent with heurman and/or a member of his household. And then in July of 2023, Heurman's arrested

and search warns her filed for his home and electronic devices. What investigators find is truly heinous. It's deeply disturbing,

like searches for porn involving the mutilation of women. They also find Google searches for family members of the Gilgoe 4 victims. Members of the police task force

and a document of heurman that's been characterized as a, quote, serial killer checklist. Among other things, it notes problems a killer might face,

DNA, her and fiber. And how to solve them. Booties, hair net. Oh, my God. The planning.

Yeah. The dedication going into. Yeah. Destroying him in life. Right.

Despite everything that I've just told you, Heurman will maintain that he's innocent until this month. April 8th,

2026, when he shocks the world by pleading guilty to the murders of the Gilgoe 4 as well as the murder of Valerie Mack,

Jessica Taylor, and Sonder Castilla. He also admits to killing Karen for God up, but he will not be prosecuted for her murder as part

of his plea deal, which also entails cooperating with agents from the FBI's behavioral analysis unit. Wow.

Who hoped to gain more insight into his crimes? Yeah. In the wake of his guilty plea, Rex Heurman's trial, which was scheduled for later this year,

will not happen. And while it closes several cases commonly associated with they so called Long Island serial killer case, this story is not entirely over.

Unsolved murders and disappearances on Long Island remain under investigation. There is real reason to believe Rex Heurman

is not behind all of them. Among the lingering cases is Shannon Gilbert's. If you remember in May 2010, she ran into the darkness of Oak Beach.

Her body was found more than a year later, a separate from her clothing and her belongings, reports note that after fleeing her client's home,

Shannon knocked on a couple doors, asking residents inside for help. By the time someone actually calls the police, though, and gives them Shannon's location,

she's gone. Shannon's client and her driver were questioned by police.

They are never considered

persons of interest in this case.

that he doesn't know why she suddenly started panicking that night. Things get very fuzzy. I know. It's so weird.

It's so crazy. But it's like it could have been a million things. Things do get fuzzy.

“After Shannon leaves her client's house,”

reporter Robert Kolker, makes space for the possibility that somebody who encountered her that night might know more than they are disclosing.

Investigators, meanwhile, think Shannon's death may have been accidental. She could have been intoxicated. That was never proven.

She could also been drugged if we're just going to say theories. And then wandered into the chili marsh, which many appointed out would have required a ton of strength and energy

to wade through, especially for a woman as petite as Shannon.

And that's where she ultimately either

drowned or died of hypothermia. But as for her clothing and belongings, being found far away from her remains, a former Suffolk County police commissioner once theorized,

quote, "That's explainable because she's, you know, hysterical." And she's discarding her possessions as she moves along.

Her genes might have come off from running in that environment. And that is a possibility. Okay, bro. I mean, also,

it's like then let's start naming

“the aliens and the possibility of possibility.”

Let's not do that. And also, it's kind of going back to she's hysterical. Right.

Like why would you start? Where is that fucking word? hysterical, because she thinks someone's trying to kill her. Yeah, we're not doing that anymore.

And she ends up dead. Yeah.

Along with all the other people who are dead.

She's hysterical, because she thinks she's going to die and then she dies. That kind of makes the hysterical part. You don't get to use that word.

No, and voice. How about logical? Right. And if you use the word logical, none of that other stuff tracks.

Totally. Shannon's family has long suspected Val play. And the lack of knowing exactly what happened to her is something they've had to wrestle with for more than a decade.

Robert Coker has spoken extensively with Shannon's family, including her mom, Mary, who managed to find a silver lining in this unimaginably horrible situation. Coker writes, quote,

Mary understood that one way of finding

“at least a shred of meaning in the loss of her daughter”

was that her disappearance led to the discovery of those four women several months later, and that without Shannon, there would be no case. There would be no search for the killer.

Right. And that is the story of the Gilgo Beach murder. My God. Great job. So now we're all up to date.

Right. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Oh, that story is just,

thanks, you feel real bad. How do we break down the institutional system that is based in racism, sexism and abuse? And build a new one that helps a girl who thinks she's being killed and then gets killed.

Right. And calls them on the phone to ask for that help. Or like, needs money because she's trying to live her life and can't afford to do that.

And so turns to something that men pay for and want and then gets a surprise for it. That's her risk. Right. And then she's blamed.

Exactly. For their violin. Right. Because she couldn't make a living. The way she wanted to.

Or not enough or whatever it is. And so she's. Yeah. I don't know how we do that. Next.

Next time line. Next time line. Wait. You want a timeline? Yeah.

We'll timeline jump on that one. There's two golden rules that any man should live by.

Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

He plays stupid games. You get stupid prizes. And rule two. Never mess with her friends either. We always say that.

Trust your girlfriends. I'm Anderson Field. And in this new season of The Girl Friends. Oh my god. This is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought how could this happen to me. The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to The Girl Friends. Trust me, babe. On the I Heart Radio app. Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Just like great shoes. Great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories. And into conversations with characters. You'll never forget.

I think any good romance. It gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robé. And this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. From Hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcast.

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Okay. Well, as we do.

We're going to make a fucking sharp right.

Turn great different direction completely. Okay. And we're going to the spring of 1871. Hey. You love that era.

I love the past. In San Francisco. Hey. You're safe. So the California gold rush is long over by this point.

But this is still very much a town of prospectors and bankers who fuel their treasure hunts.

“So the prospectors and bankers pay the fucking regular people to go find the diamonds”

ship. Right. Prospectors do it. Bankers pay them to do it. Yes.

That's right. Yeah. Okay. So recently a vein of silver has been discovered in Nevada. And much of that mining is being spearheaded from San Francisco.

People are moving to San Francisco every day to get a piece of that action. So one evening.

A mining investor named George Roberts gets a knock on the door of his office in San Francisco.

Outside on his doorstep are two men. One he recognizes and one he doesn't the one he knows is a handsome 41 year old named Philip Arnold and Philip had worked with George on some gold and silver mining endeavors. So he already knew him and trusted him. But he currently works at a company that makes drill bits out of industrial grade diamonds.

Do you know they did that? I mean, no. No. Because it turned out some diamonds aren't really worth a lot of money. Yeah.

And they turned them into stuff like drill bits, which is where this guy Phil up works. Well, with this detail, we begin the story of the great diamond hoax. Oh, hoax. We got a scam. Hell yeah.

Here we go. Love it. The main source for the story is a 1940 New Yorker article called The American Golconda by AJ Leibling and the rest of the sources can be found in our show notes. So that's I still need this paper.

Okay. Okay. So the other man with Philip. Let me show you Philip real quick. He's fucking hot.

I guess for that time. Here's his phone. Let's see. The judges. That.

Yeah. Hi. That looks like Paul. What's his name from Ireland? Totally.

Paul. Mescal. Mescal. He does. With really flat hair.

And a severe part down the middle. I love his layering. It's a great coat. What do you think his mustache smells like? I think it smells like gold.

He's got a curved Douglas dot in his chin. Yeah. He's a handsome fella. He comes that hair pretty seriously. I mean, he looks like he knows it.

Yeah. Okay. So the other man with our friend Philip here is a guy named John Slack. He's Phillips cousin. He's a bit surly.

He doesn't talk much. Both look really dirty like they've been traveling a long time. They are the prospectors essentially. Philip is clutching another sack. The kind someone might use to hold gemstones.

Fucking. It's like just straight out of a cartoon. Yeah. You know, like a train. Like Goonies.

Exactly. Yeah. They tell George the investor that the bag contains diamonds and rubies, which they discovered on an exploratory trip through a region. And they refuse to name what the region is.

But they're like excited about it. They say that because they've arrived back into town after banking hours, they want to use George's office safe to store the stones overnight.

“Like, hey, you know me, can you just hold onto these for me overnight?”

George is like, absolutely. And they make him promise you won't look in the bag. And then. But you'd look in the bag, right? Yeah.

Yeah. He does. Yeah. Yeah. Is that part of the set up?

Yeah. Yeah. See, when someone comes around and they're like, I don't want you in on this thing. And you're like, I got to get in this thing. Because it's your idea now that you're in on it.

So George says, OK, he says he won't look in the bag. And then he doesn't press them for details about where they were. Even though he really wants to know Philip and John, they say that the region they were in is controlled by Native Americans who, if the story had been true, are right fully hostile towards white outsiders. Yes, but the story is a lie.

And they say that because of the Native Americans, because of the hostile area, that means any future larger expeditions will require significant upfront investment in order to have adequate defenses. So it costs a lot of money to go find a diamond mine. Yeah.

And to have everything you need. You know, I'm just going to go out there and be like, pan and for gold type of thing. No. Well, and also because it's very well dealt with in the TV show Deadwood, which I highly

But like you think you want it, you're out there trying to get it with all everybody else.

“Then you get it now you're in like 10 times the danger.”

Totally. Now everyone wants what you've got and they're not afraid to try to get it. And so if there's one thing we've learned when we do stories about scams, it's when someone is let slip some information about a money-making scheme and they seem reluctant to tell you more about it at first.

And now you're in the position of wanting to be involved. That should be a red flag, right? And you should stay away. Unfortunately, George does not do this. Instead, exactly according to Phillips plan, the two men leave.

George takes the fucking jewel bag and looks inside it. And what he sees to his semi-trained eye is a pile of gemstones all uncut. But very precious looking nonetheless. He sees garnets, sapphires, diamonds, and I wear this ring so we could look at all the.

Are those garnets and sapphires and diamonds?

Yeah, and they're vintage, I don't think they are real anything. But yes. I wanted to do it. But look at what those look like. This is called a sputnik ring.

And I'm definitely married.

“So all these are commonly found in Arizona.”

And so it makes George feel pretty sure that that's the reason that Philip and John have returned from. But the fact that there are diamonds in the bag is actually a huge detail. No one has found diamonds in North America yet. And George brings the bag to a man named William Chapman, Ralston's house.

He's the chairman of the board of the Bank of California. Oh, and the two of them are like holy shit. And they bring the stones to an appraiser. But the thing is Philip, the scammer who is hot, knows that no appraiser in San Francisco has the equipment or expertise to gauge the quality of uncut diamonds.

He's just betting on everyone being a little uninformed based on this. And very impressed by a bag of gems. Exactly. And it happens over and over again. They can tell that there are real diamonds in there.

But they have no idea that they are industrial grade diamonds. The ones they turn into those drill bits where he works. They're not jam grade. Plus they're mixed in with you stones that are actually of good quality. So the appraiser tells George and William the richy guys that the stones are probably

worth around $100,000. We have a few opportunities to do in today's money. Okay. Story. 18,700,000 dollars. $2,000. $2,000.

$2,000. $2,000. Oh my god. I never do it. That means you win the ball.

Oh my god. That's what they think it's worth. In fact, they're actually worth about $12,000, not $100,000, which is still $300,000 in today's money.

You always got for the big scams.

You got to invest that money. Exactly. So at this point in time, let's talk a little bit about diamonds. Diamonds. At this point in time, the majority of the world's diamond deposits have not yet been discovered.

For the first 2000 years of the recorded history of diamond mining, diamonds have come from only one place. A place called Galkanda, India. And these are now considered some of the rarest and highest quality diamonds in the world. They're the FEC and OG. And the hope diamond is from Galkanda just to like give you a fucking idea.

And I looked at some photos and they're just so beautiful. By 1830, the Galkanda diamonds had been completely mined. Oh, they're gone. They're done. So we took them all.

And by that point, the center of the diamond mining industry has moved to Brazil where diamonds had been discovered in the 1700s by Portuguese colonizers. I mean, hence colonization. Fucking everywhere. Right.

“Because I wanted to say, did the colonizers find it or did the natives sign it?”

And they murdered the shit out of the natives to steal them. Probably that one. And I mean, they're not worth anything unless you can sell them and you put worth on them. So if the natives did find them and they were just like, here. But then in 1867, five years before Philip walks into George's office with his bag of jewels.

A 21.25 carrot diamond is discovered in South Africa. And so this kicks off the frenzy of prospecting in South Africa. And also it generates a lot of interest in where the next big deposit of diamonds is going to be found. And there are rumors that Arizona for some reason might be a fruitful place to look because the prospectors believe that there is some geological similarities to South Africa. So that's just like an educated guess from the 1800s.

Sure. So people in the mining world are already focused on Arizona at this point. And George and William are now the rich guys are now under the impression that Philip and John have found that sought after vein of diamonds there. And that they need to invest in order to find more. I'm not a geologist. I meant to tell you that.

Excuse me. Ten years ago. But is it? And you're not either. But is it possible that you'd find a diamond mine and a ruby mine and a garnet mine like all those things together?

Okay. You'd ask my mistake. My mistake.

“So let's talk a little bit about how Philip here.”

He had been born in Kentucky. He has a wife and family there that sounds like he left them to travel to the gold rush in the west, which seems like a lot of them did. He does send back money periodically but who the fuck knows what that means. He had settled in San Francisco and in the late 1860s after the gold rush had died down. He took a job as a bookkeeper at that company that makes rock drills out of industrial diamonds.

So that's how he got hold of them. These drills are used for mining other stones. And they are he learned a bit about different grades of diamonds and where they come from.

So knowing everything that he does he goes first to London where he buys all of those uncut stones.

That George will later see in the bag. Those stones are mostly industrial grade diamonds with a few nice gem stones mixed in. And after returning to the US he meets up with his cousin John in St. Louis. And together the two travel through Arizona where they buy the telltale garnets from a native American. So they mix all the stones up, shake it up like a shaken bake.

And then they bring back back to where we were in the beginning of the story. To George's doorstep with the intention of enticing him to invest. The plan works. George and William the banker and George tell Philip and John that they insist on being allowed to invest in their new diamond venture. Yes.

So you have to include us. I looked in the bag. Yeah. Listen.

“I did all the things you told me not to do.”

Yeah, must. They say they can help raise the capital that the men need to establish a new mine and can help provide the security. They need to defend against the made up native Americans. And then made up mine. Philip says I'm he's unwilling to part with controlling interest in his mining venture.

But he'll allow George and William to invest. Very generous. Very kind. Yeah. Before proceeding though, William, the banker insist on sending a scout to the area to make sure the diamonds are real.

He at least has some forethought into, you know, the legitimacy of this whole fucking plan. So Philip and John say that's fine. But they make the scout wear a blindfold for the journey. So he can't tell where it is. Because he doesn't want to reveal the exact location yet until he has some money.

So William chooses a gold miner named David D. Colton to accompany the men and like everyone pretty much in the US.

He's never seen a diamond field in his life.

So he doesn't really have a point of reference for it. So maybe he's not the best guy to go. And they're going to build a little diamond field for him. Yeah. I mean, essentially, yeah, they take him on a train.

They don't got to Arizona. They go to Wyoming instead.

“And then they put him, I think, on a horse and they like blindfold him.”

And essentially just like walk him around for a long time on a blindfold on a horse. You could not pay me to go blindfold on a horse. It's for three days. Oh, no. And not fucking pay me for an hour back then it was the only option.

Not the blindfold part though. Oh, the blindfold. I'll do the horse. Yeah. Okay.

I don't, I don't want to. I'm not like begging to. Got it.

You're basically just having to feel how to ride that horse correctly.

Right. Yeah, that's carry. Yeah, that's, I get carsick. A lot of trust issues there. So when they take the blindfold off, this gold miner finds himself on a 7,000 foot high

Mesa in the middle of a vast wilderness. They walk for a bit and come to what looks like an ant hill shimmering with diamond dust. They dig for a few hours with pocket knives and they each find several diamonds and a few other precious stones. So once they're back in California, the gold miners like it's fucking legit. He takes the stones to a jeweler who again says they're worth a lot of money.

And if you found this there, then there's got to be a lot more. So just like nobody fucking knows what they're talking about. Everyone's bullshitting. Everyone's bullshitting. And then it's that thing of like, if I did that and got the confirmation, I would go.

Okay, now somebody no blindfolds. Yeah. Well, because now we know. Yeah, right. But then they know where it is and they wouldn't have to pay him.

You know, I don't know. I 100% agree. I'm trying to scam solve here. It's not going to work because this already happened 100 years ago. More than that.

Yeah. What David doesn't know is that Philip or John, one of them had simply scattered some more of those London diamonds in that spot. While he was still blindfolded. So they walked him up. They went and then they were like, come on down.

He's like, playing playing. Yeah. Is it starting to rain? Diamond. Diamond.

So once David, the mining scout tells William George, the diamond field is legit. The two rich dudes got really excited. And they know they're going to have to raise some serious capital. And as we know, another classic hallmark of a scam is urgency. So William and George think that at any moment, some other prospector or trapper or just any dude on the street could come across this unclaimed diamond field and take it for themselves.

Nobody owns it. Except the Native Americans, of course. Yeah. So they think they have to raise enough money to open a brand new diamond mine and fund an army to protect it. And they have to do it fast when this and you get stupid when you're doing stuff fast.

Oh, you know. And also it's so much money.

Yeah.

So it requires a trip to New York to get investors on board and in New York, the diamonds are again appraised by fucking the founder of Tiffany in company.

Oh, Mr. Tiffany. And he values them at least $150,000. And in today's money, he gets it wrong too. Oh, does he? Yeah.

“I think everyone gets it wrong and keeps getting it wrong.”

And no one wants to be the one who's like, I don't think this is real. What are you wrong? And three guys ahead of you. And like Tiffany, Jay Tiffany who got in there and was like, no, these are great. Right.

And like, oh, no, I guess I'll go up against that guy. Yeah. After a while, it's not worth it. Right. So he says that what they found so far is worth at least $150,000, which in today's money.

Would that put it over? Is that $3.1 million? $1.5? I can't even care. I'm learning.

Yeah. So now the New York investors believe that this tiny sample from this vast diamond field is worth millions. But again, they're wanting to do their due diligence and send their own mining experts just to be sure. So fill up the main hot guy agrees that he'll do this if they give him an upfront investment

of $650,000, which is worth almost $18 million today.

Oh, shit. And she says, well, buy him and the cousins out of any, like, I'll show you where it is with the money. Yeah.

“And it seems like everyone forgot that at the beginning of the scam, Philip claimed he would never let go of a controlling”

stake in the mine. It's like, oh, you're now willing to do it even though now you know, it's worth so much more. Everyone forgot including Philip. Yeah. Reflect.

He didn't track that. So they basically agree to it before Philip can take the group on the trip. He says he and his cousin need $200,000 upfront of that $650,000. The investors agree to these terms. And so with that $200,000, because they're already knowing they're going to get $650,000 total.

The cousins go back to Europe and buy $50,000 worth of the worst diamonds in Amsterdam. What that trip. And then they seem to blow a decent chunk of the rest on nice hotels, meals, and entertainment. Hey. Hey, can we bring that picture back up again?

What a hot day. He's like, let me take you to Amsterdam. Do you like Sirloin Stain? You know who he looks like? We're a scowl.

You look like. You look like. You look like. He does. That's a scowl.

He does. He does. He does. He does. He does.

He loves it. Okay. That's a funny. All right. Okay.

So they go. They party in Amsterdam. They bring back a bunch of fucking chief ass diamonds. So Philip now takes the investors and the mining expert. They have selected back to the high nasa, which turns out to be a mountain that is now called Diamond Peek.

And I can show you a photo. So it's like that. So you just throw diamonds at that. And everyone finds them. Yeah.

So gorgeous. It's amazing. That's very cool. So Diamond Peek is actually only about 15 miles from the railroad stop. But as I said, he made them walk around, blindfolded for days and days.

And at this point, one of the cousins has clearly had time to go plant more stones. And once they're there, everybody digs around with pickaxes, everyone finds diamonds and other precious stones. And so at this point, the investors are like, okay, we believe you and we're ready to give you the rest of the money. And at this point, John this early quiet cousin bows out of the whole scheme and makes himself scarce with his remaining money. He's kind of smart.

He's like, don't be greedy. Get it and go. Yeah, this can't last. So he has about 30,000 dollars left after his romp through Europe. So he skidattles on 30,000 dollars, which in today's money.

1.836,000. So that's enough to live off of the rest of your life back then. Yeah. It was like a fucking penny. A cup of coffee was three cents.

And Philip takes his remaining $450,000, which is about 12 million today.

His cousin got, he should got more. And he pretends that he's really upset that he got such a small amount of money. Well, I guess you guys bested me. My field of diamonds. 12 million dollars.

These investors are so stoked. They start, you know, setting up shop. They open an office in San Francisco. They say some of the gems that have been found at this new and mysterious diamond field. Thinking it's like the first one in the fucking US.

But they don't sell any additional interest in the property because they want to keep all the profits for themselves. So they're greedy about it and they just can't do that. Then a geologist named Clarence King, who would go on to form the US geological survey, which you're in, my favorite. And who had just finished a geological expedition in the exact same area where this mine was supposed to be. Or supposedly was went into the investors mining expert on a train.

Just a coincidence. It's bad fucking news for everybody. The odds. I know. I mean, everyone's a fucking miner back now.

Yeah, I guess that's true. There's a lot of experts because there's a lot of this kind of shit that people are trying to do exactly. The mining expert have been promised a small share in the land. But he had already sold off his portions.

“So he actually doesn't give a shit about keeping it a secret.”

Yeah, like the everyone else does.

In this one particular area of Colorado.

And Clarence our expert is like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. Bullshit. He calls bullshit on the whole thing. He had just studied this area. He knows it's impossible.

That was found. But he has to go see for himself. So he takes the train to the general area. He's heard about and asks some local shepherds to tell him where a bunch of random San Francisco's and New Yorkers had been digging lately.

I don't know how to do it's lately. Where are they? A lot of pin stripes. Yeah, you know, slip some a 20. Yeah, the shepherds point him to the exact spot near Diamond Peak.

And once they are Clarence discovers multiple kinds of diamonds that are clearly from different locations. Ruby's garnet sapphires, emeralds, and amethyst, which as Clarence puts it in a letter to the so-called mining expert, who really only ever knew about gold, calls it, quote, an association of minerals impossible of occurrence in nature. Meaning they don't fucking grow together. Yeah.

Oh, it's a treasure field. They were almost like two greedy, our hot guy, because it's like just put the diamonds in there. It's enough. Right, that kind of like mix in it up. Yeah.

I mean, getting people excited, it makes sense for the bag. But then to source them all in one place. It's like, I want to add a college, and I know that. You knew. I mean, they're lucky they didn't get caught earlier.

He says he finds diamonds in places where it would be impossible for them to be like a tree stump. They're just throwing them around and his assistant even finds a little polished like diamond ready for jewelry. It's like the ones we see in rings, which must have been accidentally mixed in with the other stones, where they bought them for cheap and then threw them. And it's like, here's a fucking cut diamond like this is impossible.

But also, why would they leave it all behind? Like this is our special thing just in case somebody went and checked. It's so weird to me, because there is value in those.

“Yeah, they are mining for stuff like it's not like, I think they like left them there.”

So when those investors come back, they don't realize they've been had. But someone else could have found them at the same time. No, it's very weird. And a mine that gem feels. Right.

Clarence sends a telegram to the investors at their brand new San Francisco office. He's like, I can't let these guys, you know, he says quote, "I have hastened to San Francisco to lay before you the startling fact that the new diamond fields upon which are based such large investments and such brilliant hope are utterly valueless."

That's way to say that you got fucking face and face. And yourselves in your engineer, the victims of an unparalleled fraud and quote. Yeah. So by this point, the new mining company has been huge news. Like this shop they set up, especially in San Francisco.

So it's even bigger news when the whole thing turns out to be in a elaborate scam. I'm sure so many people were like stoked to read. Like it's just gossip mags about my totally. Or about investors. Because you know that's one of them went down there with this pocket watching is totally pocket.

And as always, I can open this office.

Yeah. He's got those like sock carters on and shit. Diamonds in the sock carters. Rich guy and all over the place. Rich guy.

So the story runs in the San Francisco bulletin and the whole thing just comes crashing down. But by this point, John and Philip are later days. They're gone. He shaved that mustache filled in the hole. It's over.

I got some filler. Yeah. Ultimately, only one of the investors a man named William Lent. He's the only person that's not too embarrassed to try to track Philip down and get some of this money back. Everyone else is so shame that they don't want to even make it a bigger deal.

They just want to quietly go away. Yeah. Like I got had. That's the end of it.

“Because I think maybe in that business, right?”

If they get had, then they're just the idiots forever. They can't go back and. Yeah. But let's make another deal. Totally.

No one believes in them anymore. So this guy William Lent is probably the most motivated since he had bought out several investors. And was on the hook at that point. In Philip's scheme for $300,000, which in today's money. I'm going to say $710,000.

A million. Karen. What? What did you say? So don't.

Nope. I said it wrong. I said it wrong. I heard it wrong. I don't know.

You heard the seven. You're like, we're there. I heard what I wanted to hear. We got there. I mean, listener.

If you've just joined us. First of all, we've been playing this stupid game for 10 years. And I am not a winner of this game. Usually at all. No.

You got closer. I think this time then ever. Because usually my brain goes like crazy. And it's like, say, 52 million.

“I think I've gotten close or correct one time.”

And then every other time was so far off. It's embarrassing. And I would. These investors and not go after my money. Let's put down the hubris around not only in today's money, but up all the jewels in our lives.

Truly.

Like, my fucking diamond ring that I never got to put on.

Okay. Ultimately, this investor tracks fill it down. He had skidaddle to Elizabeth Town, Kentucky. Mm.

It's so nice. Where he's back with his family. So he didn't ditch his family. And he's bought 500 acres of land.

“And has opened the first store in town that has played glass windows.”

Mm. Like, he's got the money to spend on plate glass windows at this point. And back then in that era of America, it was all swindlers that opened a store with plate glass windows. Totally built their empires.

It all, it's all on the foundation of lying. Your great great great great grandfather that you're so proud of. That's such a lot for life with the fucking trust fund. He was a scammer. He was an absolute scammer.

Human rights exploiter. Sorry. Enjoy your money. My own grandfather who was a cop in San Francisco. Totally crooked.

Got rich. Then my his wife, the widow, donated all of it to the SPCA. Girlfriend, how much? Well, like, enough a crooked cop level amount to be like, Oh, we could have lived in.

And my mom and I used to talk about it all the time. The killer fortune. We could have been. That contender. Is it the killer of fortune or the?

No, night. The night fortune. The night fortune. I didn't know that was her last name. That's amazing.

Okay. Okay. That's good. Okay. So play class windows.

“Philip has plenty of cash left when this guy comes after him to hire a lawyer.”

And ultimately, he settles with lent for 150,000 dollars. So half of what he had taken him for. Okay. And so he still has money left over. And in the end, his net profits from the hoax are 520,000 dollars.

So essentially with the lawyer paying this guy back,

he's got away with about in today's money, 10 million dollars.

Whoa. Done. Just worth it. Worth it, absolutely. He would do it again.

100%. Yeah. After the settlement, Philip decides to open a bank. And this is where ultimately karma comes back to bite him in the ass. Okay.

So there are two competing banks in town. And the owners of one of those banks challenge his Philip to a jewel. They were still doing doodles then. Great. No.

Such a fucking dude thing to do. They've got to do. I want to shoot at you. You want to shoot at me? Yes, I do.

I think I'm going to survive it. I think I will. So let's just do this. Both dead. Philip shoots his competitor in the arm.

But the competitors dueling partner sneaks up behind Philip. And shoots him in the back, killing him. That's cheating. Such cheating. So at the age of 48 in 1878, Philip dies.

Philip's cousin and co-conspirator John Slack is never heard from again.

So smart. This is why you we have to do the ancestry DNA task. I want to know who's fucking great-great-grandpa this is. Oh, in Europe. You want to do other people's ancestry DNA.

I want them to do it. Yes. Everyone's got to do it. There are some reports that he moved to New Mexico and became a coffin maker. Oh.

So if that sounds familiar, your great-great-grandpa. Let us know. And that is the story of the great diamond hoax. Incredible. I've never heard of that.

I had neither. And it worked. You guys follow your dreams. It pays. Follow your diamond cheating dreams.

Just get a scam. Make it good. Leave immediately. Get out right before the peak. Wait a second.

Should we be listening to our own advice? Oh, shit. All right. Well, guys, this has been 10 years. Thanks so much.

Oh, thanks for letting us get away with this for 10 years. We appreciate it. You know, go find your diamonds. Yeah. But if someone shows you a bag of diamonds, this says don't look in here and then you do.

Those aren't real diamonds. That's right. But you are the real diamond of this story. Say sexy. And don't get murdered.

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