Trump’s Iran Strategy Explained, the Mystery Behind Biden’s Health, and John Quincy Adams’ Remarkable Second Act

- Hey everybody, it's Mark Calpert here. Welcome to a wartime edition of Next Up Thursday and we've got a lot to cover in the midst of this war. I'm the editor and chief live interactive video platform two way and your host here guide to everything

that's next, great full to all of you for being nexters and being part of the program. Interesting stuff today. We're gonna talk American history with two authors, two authors of new books.

First Bob Crawford, you might know him as the basis for the Grammy-nominated group, the A.V. brothers. He also host a podcast, weekly historical podcast called The Road to Now, incredibly interesting guy. And now is written as first book,

a fascinating tone called America's Founding Sun, John Quincy Adams from President to political maverick. It's coming out this week and you may, who cares about John Quincy Adams. After you listen to a conversation with Bob,

“I think you will care about John Quincy Adams.”

It's a great book and brings to life a really important person in American history in a really important moment in American history. After that, someone who I've hosted on two way, many times, also a great historian and participant in American history.

Dr. Raymond Schollinger is a renowned expert. He's been a doctor for a long time. He's extraordinarily articulate about the role. Doctors need to play in treating our presidents and other public officials super knowledgeable

and add an incredible extraordinary career

in his own right, Ray will be here as well. I'm excited to talk to them both and to share their stories with you. But first up, my reported monologue. On the question about why Donald Trump is going to war?

Why and why now? It's been painted as a big mystery. I'm going to tell you, based on my reporting, why it's not a mystery, and why there's other things we should be talking about.

My reported monologue on President Trump going to war against Iran is next up. (upbeat music) It's a tough question to be asked. But are you being lied to?

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(upbeat music) All right, next up, my report in monologue. There's so much for us to debate in America in the midst of this war with Iran, America's relationship with Israel,

whether how this could end favorably for America, the world, the Iranian people, how much it's gonna cost, whether the president should consider putting ground resources in Iran. What the role of America would be in regime change.

There's a lot to debate. And what I'm here to tell you based on talking to Democrats and our Republicans this week and experts on modern American history is there's one thing that I don't think needs to be debated.

“And that's why did the president do this and why now?”

I don't think that's ambiguous. It's cast as ambiguous. I even hear from some Republicans who support this effort. They need better answers to that. I don't think we do.

And the reason I'm focusing on this is the focus on that debate. Why do you do it and why now? Obscures the conversations about these other issues. And these other issues, I think, are debatable. They are right for national conversation.

The question of why and why now has been set back at times by the administration itself? By Secretary Rubio, for instance, saying, why now because Israel was going to attack Iran, which would have led Iran to attack the United States

and that meant the US had to strike first. That was kind of walk back. I don't think that answers the why now question. So some of this unnecessary debate has been brought on by the administration itself.

And of course, the president himself in his various

pronouncements here is not always been disciplined.

And so to the extent they're frustrated, as I am, that the debate about why and why now continues, they brought some of it on themselves. But I don't think it requires much looking at what's been said in the last few days since this began.

Or recent history to understand the why and the why now.

Most cleanly, Caroline Levitt at her daily briefing

“on Wednesday, read the list of why and why now.”

Here's Caroline Levitt from the White House briefing on Wednesday, as three please. At the beginning of Operation Epic Fury, launch last weekend, President Trump laid out clear objectives to the American people

on what the US military seeks to accomplish through these major combat operations. Number one, destroy the regime's deadly ballistic missiles and completely raise their missile industry to the ground. Number two, annihilate the Iranian regime's navy.

And so far, we have destroyed more than 20 Iranian ships, including their top submarine last night, using a torpedo for the first time since World War II. There is not a single Iranian ship underway and the Arabian Gulf, straight up her moves,

or the Gulf of Oman. Number three, Operation Epic Fury will ensure the regime's terrorist proxies in the region can no longer destabilize the region

“or the free world and attack our arms forces.”

And thus far, Iran's proxies are hardly putting up a fight. Number four, this mission will guarantee

that Iran can never obtain a nuclear weapon.

- Okay, that laid out very clearly from the podium by the President's spokesperson, their navy, their terror capacity, their missile capacity, their nuclear capacity, very clear. Okay, but you gotta go back further to understand the why.

Donald Trump almost 50 years ago in a television interview. Product of his times, if you were an adult during the Iranian hostage crisis, at the end of the Carter administration,

you look at Iran as an evil country. You look at the leaders of Iran as radical extremists, religious fundamentalists, who wanna do damage to the United States. And if you're light Donald Trump,

you look at them as someone who humiliated and bariced, went to war with the United States

by taking American hostage, and you never forgot it.

Here's Donald Trump talking about its feelings about Iran and the hostage crisis in an interview with Rona Barrett, 1980, S7, please. - When you get the respect of the other countries then the other countries tend to do a little bit as you do.

And you can create the right attitudes, the Iranian situation is a case on point that they hold our hostages is just absolutely and totally ridiculous that this country sits back and allows a country, such as Iran to hold our hostages

to my way of thinking is a horror. And I don't think they're doing what other countries. - Obviously you're advocating that we should have gone in there with troops, et cetera, and brought our boys out. - I absolutely feel that, yes.

I don't think there's any question and there's no question in my mind. I think right now would be an oil-rich nation. And I believe that we should have done it. And I'm very disappointed that we didn't do it.

And I don't think anybody would have held us in a bane. I don't think anybody would have been angry with us. And we had every right to do it at the time. - There are things about Donald Trump that are inconsistent and symbolic, right?

But the issues that Donald Trump ran for president on in 2016, 2020 and 2024 are almost entirely issues we talked about all the way back almost 50 years ago, 1980, okay? Since 1980, maybe earlier, but since 1980, Donald Trump said a very clear view about Iran.

“They're an evil country and the only way to deal”

with them is with force, okay? So that lays the predicate to say why? Because Donald Trump believes that you cannot allow the Iranians to walk over the United States or threaten the United States.

And every one of his presidential campaigns, you can find plenty of examples of where Donald Trump made it clear. Iran cannot have nuclear weapons combining a nuclear power with an evil power was intolerable for the United States. Here's one.

We could show you clips from all three of his presidential campaigns. But here's one from his 2020 race when he was running for reelection. This is S9, please. - As long as I'm president of the United States,

Iran will never be allowed to have a nuclear weapon.

Good morning. - Okay, so that was Donald Trump's position. Since he's been on the national stage as a politician of 11 years now, Iran cannot have nuclear weapons. That's the why.

But it's not a weird position of Donald Trump. Every one of the people who've been president preceding Donald Trump has had the exact same point of view. Here are Donald Trump's three predecessors. And in the case of Joe Biden predecessor and successor

talking about their view of whether Iran should be allowed to have nuclear weapons, this is number as six, please.

- I strongly believe that our national security interest now

“depends upon preventing Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon.”

- Iran will never get a nuclear weapon on my watch

as they say for today. - Okay, so Bush, Obama, Biden, same thing. They can't have nuclear weapons now. None of them in an attempt to keep Iran from having nuclear weapons did this kind of operation

that we see now. They tried to sanction them, in the case of Barack Obama, tried to negotiate a deal with them. So they had the same goal, but a different attitude about how to get it done.

And they all failed, okay. Now, some people are supporters of the Obama deal, say it's exceeded in the short term, but no, Iran still has nuclear weapons. And not on a path to nuclear weapons, still,

state sponsor of terror, still of the Navy, still ballistic missiles, okay. Still a threat to America's Americans and our allies around the world. But not everybody differs from Donald Trump

on the question of how to deal with this,

“that the only way to deal with this is through the use of force.”

Here's one person who, at least in 2008, agreed with Donald Trump about the way to deal with Iran threats to the United States and its allies. Here's Hillary Clinton an interview in 2008 as five please. - Well, the question was if Iran were to launch

a nuclear attack on Israel, what would our response be? And I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the president, we will attack Iran. Whatever stage of development they might be in their nuclear weapons program in the next 10 years,

during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them. That's a terrible thing to say, but those people who run Iran need to understand that, because that perhaps will deter them

from doing something that would be reckless, foolish and tragic. - Okay, so maybe Hillary Clinton will say circumstances were different in 2008 as they are now, but at least back then, she had the same Y.

If Iran's gonna be a threat to the United States, including developing nuclear weapons, American needs to use the force to obliterate them.

“Okay, so that's what Donald Trump thinks too.”

For the same reasons, I'm quite confident that Hillary Clinton says what she says there. And now, you have a bunch of people

who have at times been critical of Donald Trump

on a range of things. Very much celebrating what he's doing. They share the why that this needs to be done. Mike Pence is former vice president. Condolize a rice, former national security advisor.

My friends at commentary, the commentary podcast, who have been no huge fans of Donald Trump. Same thing, okay? So, that's the why of this. Donald Trump believes Iran has to be stopped.

He tried to negotiate. He had Jared Kushner and Steve Wakeoff and Geneva trying to negotiate. He was happy to have these objectives achieved. Happier, of course.

They have these objectives achieved through negotiation. But as I know and reported, that wasn't in the cards. The Iranians were not reliable negotiating partners. So the why now is negotiations were going to work. The why now is the Iranian people recently rose up

and went into the streets. The president said in the view of many rightfully, that the American America would have their back. The why now is his presidency's only got three more years to go.

At some point, Donald Trump was determined to not leave this unfinished business. His predecessors all said Iran couldn't have nuclear weapons and they couldn't figure out how to get it done. This may not work.

This may relate to a quagmar or a massive loss of life or an even worse Iranian regime. But if the question is why do this and why now,

as I said, I think the answer is clear.

Now, the Democrats most Democrats, not all, but most Democrats in public life, want to make this a mystery. want to say the why and the why now have nothing to do with Donald Trump's view of the threat of Iran and how to deal with it.

They've got all sorts of reasons. Barton Swame, Wall Street Journal communist wrote this, Democrats were the few brave exceptions, accused the administration of proforing a variety of quote unquote rationals for the war

with the implication that it acted in pursuit of some hidden goal. They ignore the possibility that an administration might have more than a single reason for assaulting an enemy. A hidden goal, Democrats attribute it to all sorts of things.

Here's Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She's got a theory about why this is happening. It has nothing to do with protecting America.

- Well, listen, I think we're seeing this pattern, right?

Trump has impulsively, he impulsively went in on Venezuela. He impulsively went in on Iran. There was no exit and no endgame for either of these situations. It led to increased global instability everywhere he goes. And every time he's done that,

it has been consistent with a spike or a revelation in what is happening at the abstine files. I don't think that that coincidence is something to dismiss off the cuff.

“I think that he feels existentially tied to it.”

And I actually think that it is one reason that he must be removed from office. Because if the abstine files has such a hold on President Trump and this administration, that they are willing to plunge us and risk world war

in order to save themselves politically, that is a person, the definition of someone that cannot make objective decisions for the American people. - Okay, so she can have her point of view

and say Donald Trump did this because the abstine files and his connection to Jeffrey Epstein. I don't see any evidence for that. This is a colossal risk the President's taking. And again, there's so much to debate

about the colossal risk. But there's a lot of available evidence, not just what Caroline Levitt says from the podium. But Donald Trump's history, the history of our presidents, what Iran has done of late and the reality

that the United States cannot let this go forward, that suggests Donald Trump's not doing this because of Jeffrey Epstein, okay? So the other theories of why he's doing it, I don't think that's a fairly whole.

This thing, even if it's flawless going forward, could destroy the Republicans' chances in the midterms, simply by raising gas prices. It could be successful in gas prices could still go up. This is distracting the President's ability

to focus on affordability and the economy.

“I believe based on the reporting I've done”

in the available evidence, this is being done for the reasons to Caroline Levitt and the President, say, I'm not really sure why people are confused by that. A lot of people who don't like the President are against this.

And they may say it's because he's doing it for Epstein or they worry about the results. But some people I've talked to this week are for it who don't like Donald Trump. A friend of mine who's a leading Democrat

who regularly tells me how horrible Donald Trump is. Seize this as bold in the extreme.

Here's what he wrote to me.

He said, seven former presidents, Carter through Biden, all bounded by the Constitution and societal norms, shirt their constitutional responsibilities to the nation by allowing the Orion Revolution, which they need to be immortal danger to the country to stand.

Mr. Trump, unbounded by any field to the Constitution or societal norms, knows that revolution threatens the U.S. and must not stand. He's taking steps to hand it. It is the only course conceivable.

Now, there are people who are going to disagree with that. That this is the only course. The Obama, Biden, Foreign Policy, Establishment, will say, no, no, there were lots of other things that could be done.

I'm not endorsing the president's decision, but I'm telling you, my friend who does not like Donald Trump at all says, this is the only course. And he's explaining the why. Donald Trump agrees with my friend.

My friend agrees with Donald Trump. This is the only course. It's a risky course. It's a course that could have unintended consequences. It's a course that could work out great.

But if you believe, as Donald Trump has for 50 years, that the way to deal with Iran is through American force.

And that without that, you will never get Iran

to do the right thing. Then this is a question of why and why now that answers itself. My friend concludes to me in his note.

“And I think this captures perfectly the reality”

of what Donald Trump is doing. He says, I who hate him, meaning Donald Trump. I who hate him, salute him. For in this Iran thing, he is right. Godspeed, Mr. President, fix Iran,

but leave my constitutional loan. Donald Trump is doing this based on my reporting. And for the reason he says, we can stop debating the why. The why is more complicated than what Caroline says. There's other equities here.

The president's own view of himself and in this job.

There's other why. But those are peripheral. The why is what Caroline Levitt said. This is the moment where the president

“decided to do something he didn't do in his first term”

and that other American presidents haven't done. The why is established. Now we need to talk about all the other questions. Will this end well? How should it be conducted?

And Donald Trump is improvisational. It's that improvisational quality that in part is what allowed him to do something his predecessors hadn't done. It's also what scares the hell out of some people

about how this is going to end. And while the US military has been in conjunction with an unprecedented alliance with the Israelis, while they have been very disciplined as best we can tell in this operation.

The political side dealing with Capitol Hill, dealing with the public, dealing with the internal politics administration, my reporting at this hour is that's beginning to fray a little bit. That the pressure of this thing is getting to some people.

And that is putting in sharp relief, the improvisational nature of the way Donald Trump operates

“that in the wrong moments could produce problems”

for the United States in the world. Not predicting it, not wishing for it, but just telling you, the heat's on now, the pressure's on. This is as well as the military operation seems to be going.

There's a lot of moving parts here with American allies with the Kurds, with the Turks, with the Gulf States, with the Saudis, with Europe, with domestic politics, maga, there's a lot of stuff here. And it's going to play out and we'll keep talking about it.

But I just ask all of you, when you hear Democrat or are skeptic in this country, say, or somewhere else in the world, why? Why is why did Donald Trump do this? Why did he do this now?

Think it's pretty clear. All right, there you have it. That's my report on Donald Trump and how he's views what he did and why he did, what he did. We'd love to hear from you whether you agree or disagree.

Send me a note, I want to keep the conversation going. So type out an email, say, yes, Mark, you're absolutely right. And I get it. I see it, or no, you still missing the point. Send your message to next up, [email protected].

That's next up, [email protected]. Let's grow this community together. What more people to be next? I want to know what's going on next up. So in order to get the full experience,

as always, you got to go to my YouTube channel

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And also make sure you have the downloads check. So the, and you're setting. So immediately, the episodes will just show up. And you can listen to them all.

“And I'd have to remember on Tuesdays and Thursdays.”

Stay tuned, stay informed. No, what's coming next up right here, always on this program. Quick break now. And next up for us, Bob Crawford.

He's the base player for the event brothers. He co-hosts a weekly podcast called The Road to Now on Series XM and other audio platforms.

And he is the author of his first book.

And new book called America's Foundings on John Quincy Adams from President to political maverick. So now, available for pre-order and publishing next week, it is a great read and Bob's a great talker. My conversation with Bob is next up.

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All right, next up in joining me now, ladies and gentlemen, a living legend. Someone as talented as he is nice

Bob Crawford, Modern Day Renaissance man.

“He's the basis for the group, the A-Vet Brothers.”

Co-hosts, a history podcast, the road to now every weekend on Series XM, channel 124. It's a fantastic show.

And also, now, first time author,

book coming out in days, it's about America's founding son John Adams, John Quincy Adams, from present to political maverick. Again, someone reaching back into American history, not that long ago, 'cause we're a young country.

Bob, welcome. Mark is, it is a honor and a pleasure to be here with you today. Yeah, now, first time author, busy guy, 'cause you do your media, you do your band stuff. John Quincy Adams, we're in the post Hamilton era,

when everybody's looking at the founders and saying, well, there's stuff there, right? To write about John Quincy Adams, the first of two sons of presidents to become presidents. Why did you choose John Quincy Adams to be the topic

of what we'll be, I will say,

“someday we'll be considered your first book.”

Yeah, because he is an extraordinary,

he had the most with all respect to President Carter. He had the most extraordinary post presidency. And he probably had the most extraordinary pre-presidency. And so he is America's greatest public servant. So and he's much in the news, believe it or not,

just today, just today, the Secretary of Defense in Florida is giving a speech about big lofty principles about America's role in the world. And John Quincy Adams got name checked by Pete Hanksett. Let's listen to that.

For two long leaders in Washington and their foreign policy, foreign policy functionaries, abandoned the simple wisdom of the Monroe Doctrine. They were consumed with the United States only going abroad. They ignored the warnings of President John Quincy Adams

who said that if our nation went overseas,

only in search of monsters to destroy,

that we would cease to be the ruler of our own spirit and our own backyard. Under previous leaders, we grew obsessed with every other theater and every other border in the world except our own. So your portion of Adams is one of the most interesting things

to me is I'm seemingly ahead of his time, although obviously not because he was living in his time in creating all this stuff. But his ability to sort of astride foreign and domestic to think about America's the role of American government

at home, but also America's role in the world. Talk about him as a thinker and as someone who helped to formulate how we've grappled with these issues over the course of the country's history. - Yeah, it's really interesting

that HXF name drops in there because that quote comes from this speech from July 4th, 1821. And he is giving this July fourth operation and he's answering the question, what has America given to the world?

And what he's saying is she's given the world liberty and that she is not going, he likes HXF said it, but it's not the way that Adams meant it, right? Adams meant it, like we're not going to interfere in foreign conflicts, he's kind of,

it's a callback to Washington's farewell address where he warns us about foreign interference. And he's telling Adams is telling everybody, the European powers, stay out of the Western Hemisphere. This is our territory.

He's also telling the countries in South America who are beginning to rebel from the former holy alliance that we support your independence, but we're probably not going to get involved in your independence, but we support you.

So we would look back at it, like conservative thinkers of the 20th century love that quote, they love Adams, because it's very isolationist. - Yeah, so Adams, every president's interesting,

“I think, you know, because we haven't had that many,”

he's such an interesting character, and you bring him to life so vividly, like all great biographies, you're writing about the man and the facts of his life, but you're placing him in the context of his time.

And as you said, interesting pre-presidency in the jobs he had. And in some ways, both the pre-presidency and post-presidency are more interesting than his presidency. Talk about what he did before he became president, that position him to become president,

and how much of his positioning was based the fact that his dad had been president. - Well, so this book is not a cradle to grave, but I want people to understand this, and I do talk about this a little bit.

Like, he's an eyewitness to battle, bunker hill is a young boy. He and his mother watched the battle unfold from an overlook, about a mile from their home. He goes to Paris with his father,

into the Revolutionary War,

and then it negotiates of loans from the Dutch. He's a secretary while the peace is being negotiated over there. He is a secretary for another diplomat over in Russia. Then he comes home, he's a senator. Washington actually appointed him to his first diplomatic post.

His formal diplomatic post. He serves in several diplomatic posts. Madison names him minister to Russia. Taps him to lead the commission to negotiate the end of the war of 1812.

He's Monroe Secretary of State. He negotiates Florida from Spain. And so his resume, when we get to 1824, and he's standing for the presidency,

his resume is unparalleled.

It's unparalleled. He is a direct connection to the founding generation.

“And I think to this day, our greatest diplomat.”

So before his presidency, you would look at him on paper and say, "This guy's got to be president." Yeah, incredibly accomplished guy. Talk briefly about his presidency because the post presidency is in some ways

the most fascinating and what you write so well about. What was his presidency? Like what is he known for for his presidency? For failing, for being a failure. His presidency is actually known for the election

that made him president. 1824, you got four guys running for president. OK? Most of them are members of Monroe's cabinet. No one wins a majority of the electoral votes.

Andrew Jackson, the populist leader, the populist, general Andrew Jackson, our greatest war here at the time since Washington wins he wins the plurality.

“The vote based on the 12th Amendment goes to the house.”

The top three vote getters stand in the house for election. Each state delegation gets one vote to elect the president. So you've taken the vote out of the hands of the people and you've put it into the Congress, OK? And into this weird system, which we have today,

where every state gets a single vote, regardless of population. Exactly, exactly. So what happens in the days before this vote, this is significant. And we can think back to the cries of a stolen election.

And they called this one a corrupt bargain. Because Henry Clay was the fourth candidate. And he did not make it to the vote in the house. So he became the kingmaker. And we don't know everything that happened

in the days leading up to that vote. But we do know that Clay and Adam's met. We do know that Clay's men--

“he's from Kentucky, the Kentucky men met with Adam's.”

And when the time came for the vote, Kentucky switched their vote from Jackson to Adam's. A few other states did likewise. Adam's wins the vote. He's the president of the United States.

A couple days later, he names Henry Clay, his secretary of state, which at that time is seen as the stepping stone to the presidency and from the Jackson camp, cries of a corrupt bargain and a stone election that will doom Adam's presidency.

And probably had something to do with Henry Clay's three future attempts to become president himself. Again, we're talking to Bob Crawford, the book's America's Founding Sun, John Quincy Adams from President to political Maverick.

And this is just vivid stuff, folks. If you like drama, high human drama,

political soap opera, and just an incredible history

of how things have gone in this country. Again, we're a young country. It might seem like long ago, but it really wasn't this a great book for you. So how old is he when he leaves the presidency?

He's in the late '50s or early '60s, right? Which, back then, was old, he was born in 1767. And he leaves the presidency in 1820, March of 1829. And did he know when he left the presidency that he wanted to have a robust career after,

or did he kind of fall into it? No, he fell into it. He thought he was going to go home to Massachusetts and go through his father's papers and write a book about his father and Pittle about as retired folk do.

But in the months, immediately after he march, when Jackson takes the presidency, he is inaugurated in March of 1829, in May,

He jumps off the back of a steamship on his way to Washington

“to help his parents move back to Massachusetts.”

And so this, of course, throws him into a terrible depression. He was rejected by the American people. He lost another child. He lost a daughter in her infancy long ago. And so he just kind of piddled in about the house.

And he's approached by some men from Massachusetts. The representative for the Plimuth District at the time was retiring, and he's approached to stand for Congress. And he says, if the American people-- if my constituents, if these citizens vote me in,

I can't say, no, I have to serve a public servant. It is not beneath a former president to serve anyone. Be it commissioner, be it mayor, whatever it is. It is the continuing duty. So again, this is not that long ago.

But it's sort of impossible really to imagine a current former president doing that, even going to be a Supreme Court justice, or a senator, let alone a house member. So how are taffed?

Yeah, yeah. How was he treated as a house member?

“With great respect, with great respect, caveat, not always.”

And over, he was there, Mark, for 17 years. So again, people just imagined here, the son of a president, your president of the United States, you leave, and you think you're just going to go work on a book. And then the next thing you know, you spend 17 years in the U.S.

has at times being treated like a president. And at times, really, being Rudd, Rudd, Rudd shot, this is just a great story folks. Even if you're not interested in politics, there's a high, there's a story of humanity

of how he does it. So explain what he did in the 17 years in the house. So it goes into the house, and he is something else is going on in the country, right? This populism, that is populist wave,

that brings Andrew Jackson into office, is happening in other ways. It's happening in religion.

“It's happening in labor issues, like with tradesmen.”

And so there's something called the second grade of awakening.

And that is this religious movement that kind of explodes in the north, like in New York, and apart across Pazzo, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and it spawned this group of people called abolitionists, and they are anti-slavery. And they are a small minority.

Many of them are women. They are radical Christians. And one of the ways they voice their disapproval with the slavery gene is to send petitions to Congress praying for the end of slavery.

Now, Mark, if you are I wanted to reach out to our congressmen, our representative, we would go on, and we'd fill out a form on their email website. We might call a local office. Back then, in the 1820s, 30s, 40s,

you literally sent a petition into Congress. There was times that aside in the congressional calendar. And to congressmen would get up. And I have a petition from Mr. Halpern, who

was praying for the remittance of his father's revolutionary

pension, or this or that or whatever. And so these anti-slavery petitions start making their way into the house. A lot of congressmen don't want to read them. But Adams, he doesn't agree with the abolitionist tactics.

He knows that they're radicals. He thinks it's in practice to go to any state would emancipate their slaves, they're enslaved people. But he reads them. And he begins to kind of be one of there's a small group of these congressmen who does it.

And he's a go-to, and he'll say, I don't agree with what these people want, but I'm reading this petition. So these petitions begin to really start landing by the wagon load. They're arriving at the capital, by the mid-1830s.

And the congressmen are getting-- the southerners are getting uncomfortable with it. So they pass something called the gag rule. Which means when these anti-slavery petitions arrive, they are immediately tabled, which means they're not read.

They're not published. They are just set aside like they don't exist.

Adams saw that as being a direct attack on the first amendment.

And because of you petitioning your government for a redress of grievances, he says if you can stop the right of petition, you will soon, they will end the right freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion,

freedom to assembly, to assemble. And he becomes this first amendment activist, which slowly over time, he moves closer and closer

And ultimately becomes an anti-slavery crusader. Yeah.

“And probably the thing he's most famous for in part”

because a movie of a feature film was made about it. What a character he is. What were his unattractive qualities as a person? He was the statistical. He was a crummogen.

He was a cranky guy. He thought he was the smartest guy in the room. So basically, he's a New Englander. He's a New Englander. Right, very, very puritan in some ways.

But also, he would go to three or four church services every Sunday. He would go to the Unitarian service. He would go to the St. John's Church in DC.

But he had just an incredible thirst for knowledge.

He knew the classics. He had a part of him. He wanted to be a writer. He didn't want to be a politician when he was a young man. He wanted to be a literaryer figure.

And that is actually born out in his 14,000-page diary. 14,000 pages. He left a diary from when he was a teenager to when he died at the age of 80. So yeah, he wasn't a great husband.

And he wasn't a great husband because he didn't take his wife's feelings first and foremost. I don't think I congratulate you at the top. And I should. Congratulations.

First book's a big deal.

“Did you say I want to write a book in shop around for a topic?”

Or did you say, oh my God, I'm so interested in John Quincy Adams. I have a book inside me. And how is new I had a book inside me? And I even wrote through a memoir several years ago about my journey with the band and my daughter

who is a cancer survivor. And I just felt like I did a road of draft. And I was like, well, I don't really want to talk about me. I don't want to talk about me right now. The story is not ready to tell.

Got really into all the history. Like, keep going down that path. Got my masters. And I produced this series for I Heart America's Founding Sun about John Quincy Adams in 2022 and 2023.

And then I was approached by a book agent who said, I think you have a book here. But what inspired you're interested in them for the series?

I read when I first fell in love with American history,

going back to 2003, 2004, I was doing the Iraq War. I just wanted to know, how did we get from 1776 to Abu Gureb? Like, how did this happen?

“And so I became a voracious reader of American history.”

I picked up a book by Sean Walenz, Great Historian, Sean Walenz, the rise of American democracy Jefferson to Lincoln. And this period between the Revolution and the Civil War, it is just rich with drama, characters,

and just turns of history that you can't imagine. And that's where I found Adam. He just kept popping up. And you just, first, he's Secretary of State. And then, okay, he's running for president.

There's this crazy election. And he's out of office. And then you read about something else. And you come back and he's in Congress. How did he get there?

And then it's the Amistad. And he just kept popping up again and again. And I was like, this guy, something about this guy special. So say you're on an airplane and you chat up the person next to you. And you tell me, wrote a book.

And they say, I'm not really interested in American history books. I like to read fiction. What would you do to sell my copy? I would say, all of everything you love about fiction

is a part of this book, the good, the bad, the ugly, the turn of a human spirit, the turn of a human soul. We watch movies, Mark, we read novels. We love the characters who make the turn in their life. Maybe they go from bad to good.

Maybe they go from good to bad. Who knows? But we love that drama. My whole history thing is convincing people that all of that is an American history.

And the best example I can find is in this book. Yeah. And Mark, it's a beach read. Yeah, it's a beach read. It's a great story with great characters well-told.

And you can't ask for anything more than that. Some of you probably know Bob. I've used to his podcast on serious or elsewhere, or maybe you've heard him on Michael Spurk on it's show.

And if you have, you know, but if you've never heard of before,

I hope our conversation just now is demonstrate to you. This is a guy who loves America, is really fascinating by American history, and loves to bring it alive. He does it on his shows. And now he's done it in his first book.

It's called, "America's Founding Sun, John Quincy Adams, "from President to political maverick. "It's available. "Now for pre-order of the ad soon. "And Bob, I just couldn't be more impressed for a first book

"in terms of how well it's researched, how well it's written.

"So congratulations, and thanks for spending time with us." Mark, thank you so much for having me.

All right, that's our first guest who's written a book.

Coming up next, one of the most interesting people I've ever talked to at all, but also as a doctor, Raymond Skeletars here is the former board chair of the American Association and Health Policy Expert and his treated and studied the treatment of our presidents,

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All right, next up, enjoy me now. Another author, another eyewitness to history and participant in history. This is a doctor who has been studying public health and the role of medicine and the presidency for years

and worked as a doctor for a good long time. Honor to be joined now by Dr. Raymond Scaladar. He's an expert on health policy and public health policy, also a former American Medical Association board chair. And he's written a great book.

It's reflections on extraordinary life. It's called the Physicians Life. Nine decades of reflection. Dr. Ray joins us now. Ray, welcome.

Thank you for being here. - I'm honored. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. - Why sit down and write this?

Who's this intended for?

“And what did you hope to achieve by writing the book?”

- Well, it's really for friends and family and reflections. About 30 months ago, my wife insisted that I put down what I've been doing. I was reading lots of books, doing medicine,

still and decided to. What have I accomplished? What did I do? And I did my reflections. And it's very satisfying to go back

because I reconnected with my friends who were not here and some of the events that at the time seemed just matter of fact, but I realized they weren't. They were very significant. And I just did what I had to do.

So I'm very happy I completed it. And it's my book of Physicians Life, which is right here. - There it is. My dad's working on his memoirs

and I'm getting a chance to read his stories. He'd like you. He's been in Washington for a decade or so. And it's a great thing because you jog your memory,

“you remember stuff, you connect up some of the stories”

and like my dad, you've had five lifetimes worth of extraordinary experiences in your career. How of your friends and family, as they've read it, how they reacted, what if they learned that they didn't know about you?

- Well, many of them knew, I don't know exactly because she was there as we went along. But some of the things they did not know, my love of baseball, taking me back to Brooklyn. And the Brooklyn Dodgers in watching Jackie Robinson

for the Montreal Rolls, trying to steal home in 1946 and they still sent him back to Montreal. Or being present at Lou Gehrig's July 4th when he said I'm the luckiest man alive I was there. And it just perfected beyond medicine, beyond my life,

so many of the other things that were important to me. - Amazing, whenever I have you on, you've been on two way quite a bit.

I always do the big reveal at the end,

but I'm gonna do it now because it's just so extraordinary. Tell folks how old you are, what year you were born and how it is that you have, what kind of shape you're in at this point? - Well, I'm 97, I was born in 1928.

I've been fortunate, I've exercised as best I can. Of course, I'm getting a little older and I'm a rheumatologist and I have my own share of aches and pains, I can assure you. But I try to overcome, make no of them.

and do a common bike.

- And I do all the things I try to do.

I just tell my patients, I try to do it myself. - Yeah, you just extraordinary at 97. You'd be extraordinary, I think at 77. I just, that's just your acuity, but your obvious love of life and your connection

“to all the things that are important to your family,”

to the career that you've had, it's just every time I see I'm just blown away by it and my dad's a relatively youthful 87, same thing with him. Just, you guys are just extraordinary testments and you're both from Brooklyn.

So I'm thinking to have to do with the water and Brooklyn or maybe it's the meat and the Nathan's hot dogs, whatever it is. Just extraordinary.

- Well, I had those Nathan's hot dogs,

I don't recommend them anymore. It's one, two, one, five and a half. So, there's a month worth of salt in every hot dog. Let's talk about the things you've done connected to what you and I often talk about,

which is the public health of our presidents and how the public and the media connected that. We saw with President Biden a lot of concerns and a failure, you know, I've talked about this, a failure of the political press, the medical press

to talk in real time about what was going on with him. And now we're seeing with President Trump a lot of reporting about what's going on with his hands, what's going on with his legs, what's going on with his neck.

What do you think, as you've seen it,

and you worked with President Nixon as a physician, going from Nixon throughout your career to now?

“What's the trajectory of this very important question”

of what kind of medical information, health information we get about our presidential candidates and we get about our presidents? - Well, the value to the wish for, we wish we could get as much information as possible,

but we know that it's probably not going to happen. I mean, cognition is now in the forefront, because let's face it. We had a septageinarian running again. It's an octageinarian, and an age does seem to be a serious matter and people to start having cognition problems

as far as specifically, we Jake Chaper wrote a book about Biden's health, which I won't reiterate, but it's very, very specific about his problems that in the communication is ability to emulate. He was very stiff, he had very few press conferences,

so there was a big problem. So, and now with Trump, when he had his COVID, they threw the book at him, you know, he was apparently very seriously ill. So he got some of the information,

but all the medications he was taking, how his health is currently, we're getting some drips and drabs. He had a scan, but he doesn't remember exactly what scan it was. So, that we don't get all the information we would like.

Unfortunately, it may be politicized, and even if the physicians at Walter Reed give a report, the handlers may dissect it and feed to the public what they want. - Of course. - And they issue of hip-hop and privacy.

- So, - Right, yes, so no dad presence are people too, and they don't want their full medical record maybe out there, but there's obviously not just a public right to know, but a public need to know, particularly in the case of our two most recent presidents,

to unlike you show substantial indications of aging, whether it's physical or mental. And in the case of Joe Biden, I continued to not understand how his doctors could have, let's be honest,

of my word, now yours, covered up is decline. Not just the communication staff, 'cause they're political operas. They say no press conference will just say the president's busier, or whatever.

But how can a doctor a physician participate in the failure to communicate

“what the doctor's treating president Biden must have seen?”

The obvious decline. How can that be consistent with their public obligation? - Well, I think President Biden's physician was his own personal physician. - I've been thinking he's a highly physician to go to read, he's selected him.

And there are a lot of things we don't know. And how could it be that as soon as he left the presidency, prostate cancer was diagnosed, wasn't he evaluated previously? That should have been, I mean, it seems very improbable

that science and symptoms of some bone problem,

did not occur and one has to wonder whether he was in denial,

“or whether his staff refused to allow this information”

to get, could put forward, or that he was not tested, or it was missed. - Yeah, but I agree with everything you said. I'll just go back to. If you don't want to criticize these particular doctors,

I'll ask it as kind of a case study hypothetical. If you're the physician to the president, whether you're a military doctor or not, and the president has cancer or mental decline, what's your obligation?

Is it to simply talk to the family about it? Or if the family doesn't disclose it, is it your obligation to go to the public? And to say, my patient has cancer or my patient, who's in control of our nuclear weapons has declined,

or are you bound by the obligation to your patient

and you can't say a word?

- Dr. patient confidentiality, you're bound to the patient. You report to the patient and the patient has to be the one to release the information. - We had to sit when I might digress it up with Nixon. Nixon was very forthright, whatever you may think of Nixon,

he allowed everything to go forward. And every day we put forward the, with her blind, who's a wonderful press secretary, we put forth everything, and there was no nothing held back. So it really depends on the individual.

It's Dr. patient confidentiality, and if you're my patient and you have a problem, I can't go public with it, and I'm not about to put this in New York Times. - Right, one of the most extraordinary stories

of your life as it connects the presidency was your treatment of President Nixon. And you played a decisive role in making sure he got the health care that he needed without you as you and I have discussed before.

Not clear, he would have tell the story of how you found yourself treating President Nixon at that critical time. What was he diagnosed with?

“What were the problems and the challenges for treating him?”

It was very interesting because it was really serendipity on the Saturday morning. I got a call from the orthopedist who said, very come on down to the emergency room. I have a VIP, I want you to meet.

(laughs) But what was your job at the time did you have a private practice or? - I was a captain at Walter Reed, and I was the new specialty of rheumatology.

I was chief of rheumatology. Got him. Came down the emergency room and there on the gurney was the vice president, and I greeted him. Good morning, Mr. Vice President.

And the Colonel Blair, the orthopedist said, take a look at his knee, I think he has gout. This is not really anything confidential because this was all publicized. - Yeah.

- And I said, no, this looks like an infection. So the long story is we cultured it. He did have an infection. He had hemorrhoids and we laid it on the line that on a Monday evening in the Eisenhower suite

of Walter Reed, what do we do next? Well, his staff, his actual act of lights said, well, we can be at the election to run. We can organize an orally.

“We can terrorize it, and how to blue, you guess me?”

And I said, what do you say? You made the diagnosis. I said, Mr. Vice President, if you do not come into the hospital tonight, it's not going to be an election.

And that was the truth. And he was shocked, but he came in. - Yep, and you got him back on his feet. And of course, the rest is history, maybe the watergate part, we can alight over,

but he did become president of the United States. President Trump, as I said before, there's stuff that people look at and say what's going on there. The bruising on his hands.

He says it's from shaking hands and taking aspirin. Is that a plausible explanation? Or, you have some suspicions. - A aspirin does is a blood thinner, and it's possible that, but really do not know

what is this platelet count? What is this problem in taunt? There are lots of things we do not know. So they're not been revealed. He's giving you an explanation, we don't know.

Now, two his team's credit into his credit. They put out more information than Joe Biden did, and some other presidents did about his exam, but they still had it hit a lot. And they're currently not being particularly forthcoming

about the latest thing that's a reason that's caused the internet and social media go crazy. This is Caroline Levitt at the White House briefing on Wednesday this week, being asked about a red area on the president's neck, please roll that.

And then a second question, on the rash that was on the president's

neck, the White House of Physicians, said it was a preventative skin cream that he was using,

is what are they trying to prevent with this cream?

- Two-year second question, I don't have anything

additional to add to the physician statement that we provided to all of you on those questions. - So Ray, what's that about? Is there some cream on the president's neck? What could that be about?

- Maybe it just has a simpler rotation from the shirt collar, maybe it just has a mild dermatitis that was irritated, you know, we just don't know. We'd have to take the whole shirt off and see what he looks like to see, have it on the rest of his body.

If you don't know, I mean, it's just, I still have a picture of it. It looks like it was just definitely inflamed. - Yeah. - And it could be if he was wearing a shirt collar

and to try it, his neck is getting bigger. And just irritation, I don't know. And so just be some sort of run-of-the-mill anti-inflammatory cream. - Yeah, he could try to remind him.

“- You should never cream or a combination”

of an antibiotic and steroids.

- Right, so he's now, at least since in this first year

of his second term, he had two physicals at Walter Reed, rather than the usual annual. If you were treating someone of the president's age, who was president, so no scrimping on treatment and preventive gear, would you recommend two physicals

a year for a president at this president's age? Or it's only when he had an ailment. - Well, I think it's a good idea. I think that it is certainly good surveillance. Why not?

And I think that I would recommend my patients that had their age to be seen twice a year as well. So why not? - Yeah, that makes sense. Again, your book covers your whole life.

And remind people who haven't read the book, have in senior,

how many years have you lived in Washington? - I came down from Brooklyn in 1954 to join the army. And I was at Walter Reed for eight years. And there we were, very slow, the best medicine practice ever throughout my career.

And it does not have any of the current diagnostic check leaks, everything was diagnosed with the bases of history, physical examination, the stethoscope and percussion have a needle and rub of love, and you're made to die.

- So you came in 1954, and you've not left, right? You've lived in Washington since '54. My dad came about a decade later,

“I think he came in '66, and he's never left.”

And as we think about his arc of his career, there aren't many people who've been involved in national security for in policy. My guess is there aren't many people who've been physicians in Washington,

who've been thrown that period of time. Do you have colleagues who've been doctors in Washington since 1954 and still around? - Unfortunately, I've gone to their funerals. - Oh yeah, they're not, no, it's, I look back,

my dearest and best friends and best physicians, they're gone. And has Washington changed since 1954, in the ways that are most resonant for you. - Well, as many have said, when I arrived, it was a sleepy southern town.

- Yeah. - It was so unbelievably, very, that rural, but it was almost suburban downtown. It was a different, different, and was carefully segregated.

- Yeah. - It's from the park and west of the park. - Why is it black, no question about it. - So it's built up, it's built up, there are more big buildings, there's more restaurants, more nightlife and the racial integration.

It's changed, although it still, so some extent, defacto of pretty segregated city, their neighborhoods that are not that are all white, neighborhoods that are all black or all Hispanics. So that hasn't changed completely,

but it's fundamentally changed.

“What about, in terms of the medical profession in Washington?”

Has I changed at all? - Well, medicine is changing throughout the country. And, you know, what used to be small practices, small groups, we now evolve into the corporate practice of medicine where hospital could,

hospitals take control and physicians are now working for the hospitals and there's a definitely, a interplay between who was in charge, whether it's the hospitals, or the HMOs, or the physicians, and this is definitely playing out.

It's no longer about you have the opportunity to make the decisions only. And the other issue is time with patients, who could today, you're sort of limited to 15 minutes

or everything now becomes, let's do a diagnostic test.

Let's go get an MRI, rather than just hands on analyzing,

“taking a good, long history and physical,”

being concerned about the mental health of your patient. The mental health seems to have gone by, but it's not a psychiatrist. - Right, it's fine, woman. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm telling you, there are very few people in America in any profession,

in any city, 97 years old who've done a favor to all of us to write a book about decades of reflection, nine decades of reflection, a physician's life, nine decades of reflection, Ray, it's just so fascinating because you've got the perspective

of course on all the medical stuff, but you're also just a keen observer of life, around you, and not many people are around who are at that famous Lugare game, so that alone makes it an extraordinary work.

“So, it folks, if you want to get Ray's book,”

you'll send me an email and we'll forward it on to Ray. So, send it to my normally mail address, next up, [email protected], just put in the subject-line, Ray's book, and we'll connect you up so you can get a copy

of in one format or another. So, again, send me an email, next up, [email protected], and we'll connect you to Ray. Ray, so congratulations to you.

“I won't say I'm proud of you, that may sound condescending,”

but it's a remarkable feat and it runs right parallel to the remarkable life you've letting continue to lead,

and I'm always grateful to have you on thank you.

- Thank you, Mark. - Thank you, Greg. - That's our program for today. We'll be back on Tuesday with a brand new episode, grateful to you for being part of it. And it would ask always that you go in YouTube

and like and subscribe, same thing on the podcast, a platform, to make sure you've got downloads checked, so you can get it and share. Next up with your friends and family,

and people you work with and love, and hate just about everybody. Wanna grow the league of next year. Thanks for watching, and for listening.

Glad to have you here, so you always know what's coming.

Next up. (upbeat music)