1128: Reaction to Brian Rolapp's vision of the future PGA Tour

Be the right club today. [MUSIC]

“>> I think that's better than most, how about you?”

It was better than most, better than most.

[MUSIC] >> I expect anything different. [MUSIC] >> Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Nulling. A podcast, the Nulling of live show, hello to everybody watching on YouTube.

If you're watching us here, or listen to your car, whatever you're doing at the moment. My name is DJ, joined by my friend, Sally, and T.C. greetings from Jacksonville Boys. How are you? >> Good, thirsty, sweaty, high, it's hot here. It was just an energetic day.

I'm still on the energy high, and I want to just make it to 6 p.m. here today, because I have a feeling it's going to be, the fatigue is going to set in here quickly. It'll lot happening this week. >> Record hi to date, age 92 degrees. I heard what snow in my house, T.C. quite literally right at the moment, so yeah, wild one.

We are brought to you today, as we always are, my friends, at Titleist, we have a lot to talk

about today, firm golf course, I'm hearing, I'm receiving words of firm greens out there. You're going to need a lot of good, long iron control, out of T.P.C. saw grass, we're going to circle back on that later in the show. Before we do, guys, we got a lot to talk about from, I would say, the world of pro golf. We had a big update in the world of pro golf today, as we heard from Brian Rolap for the

first time in a meaningful capacity since probably last year's tour championship when he spoke, he spoke at P.J. tour HQ, we're going to talk about what it means, him speaking at P.J. tour HQ, instead of in the media center, that's, that's a change. He spoke in front of media, partners, notably, P.J. tour staff, kind of an all-hands come

through, hear ye, hear ye, type of day, took questions for 45 minutes to questions, so people

literally didn't have any questions, which was very impressive, and so I want to get into all the nitty-gritty of what he said, what he didn't say, what he almost said, what he

“into that, but just first things first, so I'm going to start with you, how are we feeling?”

How are we doing? What are you taking away from today? I feel, it's like, suspiciously great about it all, my guard is up in some way of like, you know, am I getting out ahead of myself, but I overwhelmingly felt during, you know, there was some anticipation going into this, we kind of talked about this early into the week of, you know, we're maybe hearing some things like there's not going to be as much in this

press conference as maybe we'd hoped and not as far as long as we'd hoped, maybe roll up, running into some roadblocks, implementing his plan, and I did not walk away feeling that, I walked away feeling like, definitively, I feel like the PGA tours in good hands, and it's been my whole life since I've felt that way, I think, in terms of where it's headed and the direction it's going, I said this, when we talked to a roll-up, back in August

to the tour championship, it was like, we took 10 years of our podcast and put it in the chat, GPT and summarized it into an agenda and laid it all out, like, makes it clear. I feel like it's crystallizing even more. We can break down the specifics of all of that, but it all started to really, really, really make sense, and it just, you know, it's a soft skill, and it isn't, you know, it is kind of game-changing, but it also isn't,

I've just the ability to deliver that message so definitively, so well, and so with, with the aura that he kind of had in doing it and the ability to just put the trust, I felt like everybody's trust in that room, and nobody was like, rolling their eyes at that, nobody looking at each other like suspiciously, it was just like, oh, okay, pretty hard to argue with everything you're saying here. If you didn't know the answer, like you kind of just

said, like, we're working on that, I don't know enough about that at the moment, we'll come

“back to that, and I don't know, man, I feel, I think everybody left that room feeling like”

notting along and making a little smirk face of like, okay, this is kind of what we're talking about. Let's go. There was a lot of, yeah, a lot of this was the day Brian Rollab became president, type of type of vibes floating around, but I think there was some substance and some steak to go with it, even if some of it was hands, but TC, what do you had to add to that? And also, let's, like, look, again, I'm a little bit biased here, former PJ tour employee, I've been to the

players 200 times, I've been to that state of the union press conference, I've been in the media prep sessions for that, like, I love this press conference. This one was totally different, and I

paint a picture for me of like, who's there, who's hanging out, who's talking to who's not talking

“to who, what's the vibe in there? Yeah, I think the first of all is a little disappointed when I saw”

the screenshots, you guys sent through for what it looked like on TV, because it just, you know, same step and repeat, and sitting in the media center, it felt like a, like, watching Jay, you know, hunched over, who didn't get the first part of the thing monahan, I knew it. Oh, for sure, yeah, well, yeah, he got up there and called Jay a winner, which we can talk about that, but, like, it felt like, you know, kind of put from a broom closet to like the entire organization

is there, in this $100 million Norman Foster design building that we reference all the time,

like inside the mode, like it's one of the coolest buildings in the world, it's like the design and all of that. There's three levels up and like the entire tour staff, I mean, every tournament director, every corporate sponsor and partner, like they basically canceled the partner summit this week, and they were like, hey, just come to the press conference instead. They had, you know, like the, the Uruguay golf association was there. Those guys have their blazer on, like, all the

guys aren't just showing up, just for shits and giggles. Georgian America, LTGA, it was true. I mean, I saw it, everybody from the world would go off, maybe except for, I'm sure there was an

Augustine National Representative there, but didn't, I didn't see, I didn't see one or recognize one,

but otherwise, like every agent, every agency that does work with the tour, like it truly felt like every single stakeholder was in the room, and it was like, come on, come all, even if there's not a

“specific, tangible detail or headline that came from it, I think it's, it was truly just like”

under new management, and even sitting there, like, he spoke directly, he spoke, you know, clearly, like a human being, there's not a media person up on stage with him, choosing the questions and hand picking stuff. It's, it's real app pointing at people calling him out, and he was doing the speak, go get that, it's kind of what I thought that was, it was kind of like, when Randy did the thing, like the PGA championship, like, yeah, next question. Yeah, down in front

here, he was running it himself, and then, like, literally, he was like, anybody else have any questions, like, does anybody possibly want to ask anything else, whereas in the past, it's felt like, oh, no, all right, we can maybe do one more question, and then, like, we got to get Jay the fuck out of here because he's going to slontaining his leg and bust. Well, let's get into some of the specifics here, and I'll preface some of this with these are all, none of these recommendations

have gone to the board yet. None of this is real life stuff yet. This is kind of just what has come back from the future competitions committee, which we referenced, you know, the, the state of the union at East Lake, that was one of the things that came out of there was, you know, Tiger Woods is going to head up this future competitions committee. They're going to look

“under the hood at everything that we're doing. We're not doing, how can we be doing things better?”

They're going to come back with recommendations and how we need to change things. And today was all about, was less about, like, we rocked him. Here's exactly what's going into play this afternoon, and more about here is what we're starting to see here are the big themes that are starting to kind of organize themselves. Inage, I would say, before you get there too, like, also giving us mile markers or checkpoints of, like, you will hear from me again at the Travelers

Championship. And I will up you on these very specific things. And then you will hear from me again at the Torch Championship. And it was just, like, I know transparency can be a hollow word at times,

but it was very much like, here's what we're working on. We're not there yet. It seems like they've

kind of gotten into the hood and saying, alright, we can't break this thing apart yet. Like, we've got to keep it intact while we build the new thing. But also, here's what we're working on. Here's when you'll have the next update and hold us to that. Like, there's accountability involved. Yeah, I think there's just, I know I'm kind of jumping ahead with this, but I'll be quick with this to say, like, I, I feel like they're at the point in the process where they now view being

able to use the public nature of this as an asset for action in terms of, like, this is now out there. The buzz is out there. The reaction is out there. Like, who wants to be a part of this? Let's line up some sponsors. Like, you know, you could feel that having all the sponsors there to hear all this and hear the enthusiasm could not have been an accident. You know, of course, it's not an accident of, like, now this is out there. Do you want to be in on the PGA Torch

how we're going to do it. And here's how we're going to do it. And, you know, almost, like,

“using that as a little bit of power. Like, now this is out there. This is what the plan is.”

It's going to be harder for people to fight against. And it just makes it a little bit more clear for people what they're signing up for, both the media perspective and from a sponsor perspective. Peter Jacobson, your ass is on notice. We'll get to that. So, well, we'll speak of clarity. One thing I would commend them on just from a pure communications standpoint is, like, make it clear what we're talking about. And I really appreciate it. And as soon as you know, hey, I have a, there are six

points, point number one. And Ryan Rolab went through all of this. And I just think it's funny when you, you see the media reporting on a lot of this stuff, including what we're about to do right now. People are dying for this. People are just like, sweet, copy and paste the six points. This is what I'm looking for, rather than kind of like a melee mouth. Like, where, yeah, we're looking at

“that. We're kind of working on maybe this, that and the other thing. And then people miss and”

construe your things, and then everybody gets mad. Anyways, what we have are six points. And these are, which is interesting, because there's five points of contact or five points of pressure. Rolab's taking it to six. I didn't even think about that. Point number one, this has to do with

the seasoned structure. He wanted to make it clear that the PJ tour, at least the first track,

we're going to get to what first track, second track, top tier, lower tier, type stuff means. But the main events of the PJ tour, the big dog events of the PJ tour, should run from late January to early September is what they're finding. They want to at least double the number of signature events, which means that if you take those, you know, call that there's eight now. So double that to 16 plus the majors and the players and the rider cup or president's cup,

you're kind of looking at like 21 to 26 events for the main, like top players on the PJ tour, which brings us to point two, consistent fields. He really wants to incentivize the right players playing the right tournaments and sponsors known who's going to show up. And that means 120 man fields at those signature events instead of 70 man fields. And that means also with the cut, which people are very fired up about and championing a championing today as far as I can see.

Point number three, PJ tour needs to open big and what that means is open the season with a big marquee event at a iconic West Coast venue. I'm a little worried we're talking about throwing lines, but we can get to that. Finishing on network TV in prime time, who says no, I do not too many people. I don't think point number four, the PJ tour needs to take better advantage of major major markets. Major major markets wants to take advantage of the opportunity

to bring golf to larger markets where it's applicable, not necessarily forcing it, but he called that specifically New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, DC, Philly, all all places that don't have a regular tour stop for some reason. And you know, seemingly wanting to really get back into those markets and take advantage of those. I thought he made a great point that the bulk of, you know, you hear a lot of this like COVID golfers, the new golfers in the golf world, the bulk of those

new golfers are obviously in high population centers. And those new golfers really have not had a consistent PJ tour presence in the last five years. And haven't really had the chance to go

to one of these events for the first time. So it is a little bit of like almost starting over

“in some of those places, which I think is an interesting thought. Point that was so funny to think”

about like Boston is like, all right, TPC Boston. Yeah. Point number five moving down the six points of contact here. Promotion and relegation must credit live golf. This he just continues to say meritocracy, meritocracy, meritocracy, their needs to be consequences, their needs to be fans need to know exactly what is on the line at all of these events that need to know if somebody is is moving up to the first track, moving down to the second track, what's on what's on the line

for different golf tournaments. And then number six, enhancing the postseason, exciting stuff here. Lots of kind of it, everything's on the table sort of situation. Postseason, I want to puzzle that word to and we'll get there, but that not the playoffs is as the postseason. Yeah. So exploring ways to add drama to those final events of the season are very explicitly including the potential of match play. One of the quotes that stuck out to me was and we'll circle back to this when

I get done with my monologue here was the thing that matters above everything else is whether

everything we've heard about the FedEx cup in the past where it's like, no, no, you don't get it. It's a big cash redistribution system. And it needs to be distributed along these points. We're going to go to Memphis and lead it. Yeah. It's going to be awesome. Role F's point seems to be like, no, no, no, no. You don't get it. It needs to be interesting where people are not going to watch. And this is of course where the quote that we'll probably reference a couple times came from where

he basically said post sports are about listening to listening to the fan or thinking like a fan

and nine out of ten times. That's probably the right answer. Again, not necessarily where we've we've been in the past. So I want to go through all those kind of point by point and we have lots and lots of stuff to talk about. But before we do just a couple other things that he said that we're probably not going to get into today, but probably need to be read into the record. Again, none of these are going into effect immediately. None of them have even been brought to the board. Still just ideas.

So, you know, if there was no resistance to these ideas, they probably would have been pushed through. And we probably have a lot more announcement to be doing today. But instead, they're still just ideas. So that probably means we're talking about at least like 2028. As the earliest time,

that we're going to see a wholesale change. So worth mentioning that up front, which D. Joe is a

little bit disappointed earlier this week. I was like, oh, this thing might be a nothing burger. What do I think about it? The more I like, I'd rather than do it right than rush something out in just to win the press conference or just to win just to get it out for 27. When here's the vision, we're still working on the details. And he said that a couple times of like, we're, I don't want the details to start affecting the vision. I want the vision to, you know,

like, let's, let's be, let's be flexible on the details, militant with the strategy and

“loose with the details. Which, and I think that's important where the details will matter and”

do matter, especially as it relates to venues and certain competition things. But the vision right now matters are like, all right, what are we trying to accomplish here overall? And like, yes, it feels like what we've been talking about for eight years. And there's also a built-in urgency to this. They touched on just the timing of media rights deal. So the media rights deal runs through 2030. But negotiations, I don't know when technically, but at least two years prior to that. And

they, the media, the entire market needs to know what the product is that they're potentially buying. So like, having it ready by 2028 is non-negotiable. Like, it has to be ready by 2028 because that's the year when negotiations start. And it better start working right off the bat because your entire valuation of your next media deal, which makes up what percent of your valuation of the entire company. I don't know, but it's massive. Like, all relies on that. So there's built-in

urgency. And that's where I'm, I'm with UCC of like, we may see some remnants of this in 2027.

“And like 2028 is the year to focus on. And I think that they have no choice, but to be ready for that.”

A couple other things before we get into the specifics. Again, I mentioned no consideration to folding the live players into the players. It's just that that's interesting with all the major talk. And you know, who's missing this week? And etc. I didn't weigh it on the major talk, which again, this is the like part where I'm kind of like, you know, he was, he was big on, you know, that's just not for us to decide. That's not for us to decide. Oh, I mean, it's okay. Well,

it's here commercial, and it's okay. Well, let's just set that aside for you. It was like,

all we did was put out of commercial. Our marketing, and also like, for the first time ever.

Yeah, you guys are talking. Got you guys talking about it. Didn't weigh in on the rollback decision other than to say that basically everyone seems like they're on different pages. Stay colder. Why is right now as far as US, you know, saying one thing players are saying one thing. Many factors are saying one thing, which is, I guess, how it's taking me last 25 years. And his point was essentially like, there needs to be consensus around, you know, we need all be looking at

the same data. We all need to be having the same conversation before we decide what questions. He said,

“is this an issue in the game? And, all right, if so, how do we, how do we go about combating it?”

I think, unequivably, I hope he says yes with the first. But I think number two is up for debate. Right. I think that does the current meeting that's being proposed to accomplish that was his phrase. Yeah. There's a big, and I think his, his take to was very much like, all right, we're going to get our, like, we're going to get our house in order here. And we can deal with that here as we go along. Yeah. This is worth mentioning just, I think as some of the criticism and I hate, I hate all this

change stuff starts popping up. I wanted to stress that no one should expect the tour to take a step backwards from a charitable standpoint. I feel like that's been out there a lot is like we're taking all the charity money and we're funneling it to, you know, all of like six players. We'll see,

And then the last thing, again, don't have to get into this today necessarily, but just thought it was

“very interesting when he was asked, I think Matt Joseph Lumman, you may be about the idea that golf,”

that the PJ tour does not own any of the five biggest properties in the game. He kind of made an illusion that I hadn't really heard before that was like, you know, we could potentially, as you start looking at rights, we could potentially be in an all-boats rise situation if we start thinking about negotiating these things together rather than separately because of how much everything runs through PJ tour golf. All of the value of the majors is provided by who the stars are,

which is created by PJ tour golf. And it was just a, it flipped it on its head a little bit,

because I think we've always kind of joked about, you know, the PJ tour has to provide 95

percent of these guys income while owning none of the biggest pieces in the game. And this is the first time I've almost seen that like go on offense a little bit, what that means, what's going to happen, what the other, you know, entities reaction to that would be is who could possibly say, but it was, I had never heard it phrase that way before. I don't know about you guys. Say, if you ask like the LPGA tour, I was in a heavy mistrust there, like, oh, yeah, that didn't

go so well for us, that's not sure. There, you know, but also they're different guys negotiating. You know, yeah, and it could be a subtle like, we, we loan out our talent for the majors. And

“that's how we just, but we all do this here or else that the price of the brick going up, otherwise”

is, is, I think the PJ of America is in a very interesting spot with like, if you look at the relationships had, or lack there of like, spray and rain, those guys were like the new guy

Terry from United Health or Optimal or whatever, is like, he basically signed a massive

proud partner deal with the PGA tour or their company to hose like he's a long time partner of the PGA tour, you know, and I think there's kind of resetting that relationship from what, what I gather. Yeah. So I want to get into all, all of these points, what we'll go into, you know, into them in, in, in finer detail, but before we do, we got it, we got it. You know, I got it. It's not a subtle dog. You wouldn't even believe it, guys. How many subtle dogs I saw out there?

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through the end of the week. So getting back into the actual, uh, the six points of contact here. I'm going to lump, I'm going to lump three or four of them together into this first thing, which is kind of the, the state of play. It's, it's the structure. The two tracks I mentioned,

“the field sizes, the promotion relegation. I think all of these kind of go hand in hand,”

and just to reiterate what we're talking about. As he's laying it out, he's basically saying, we have two tracks on the PGA tour. One, by the way, if I may, just trying very hard not to say top track and bottom track or upper tier lower tier, because it all is supposed to be the same tour, even though we're clearly talking about two different tours. Not anymore. The top track is, is the main players, 120 man fields, signature events, beefed up, with cuts, late January,

to early September, which I think begs, you know, the question we can get into on what the, what the bottom track is. But as far as, you know, in layman, layman's term saw, I mean, we are kind of talking about two tours here. It, it seems. Yes, this is shockingly kind of in line with what we had talked about a lot in terms of, they're being a championship level structure. Like he talked a lot as well about restructuring

the FedEx cup and the point system that nobody really understands, and I might be paraphrasing some of that, but, you know, basically changing the way the FedEx of points, the point sucks. It doesn't, we all do. Nobody knows how it works. I mean, how many points is the fourth place finish or get this week, TC? We did this for a living. Nobody knows. Nobody has any idea. Re-doing that top level, this is where the events that are going to matter for the championship,

know details of this part yet. Like opportunities to fall out of this series to get back into

this series, all of that, everything, laddering up to a completely different competitive series. And I was thinking to talk about this today of, you know, because we'll get to a little mention

“there about the potential season as well. And I was like, are we over-hyping this? Is this silly?”

Are we going to get there and like, you know, still roll our eyes at this? And I'm like, no, no, I don't think so because, but we've only lived in a world where we truly haven't cared who wins the PGA tour title. Like if I asked you who won the 2013 masters, I bet you guys could tell me who won the 2013 players, I bet you guys could tell me who won the FedEx Cup that year. I bet you couldn't tell me. And like, but if you told me what the goals were for the majors,

I could tell you, or for 2013. Tiger won the players that year, 2013 was Adam Scott.

But I didn't, I don't know. He was 2010. I think it was Bill Haas maybe. I don't know. Anyways, Stenson, I don't know. That's the whole point. And but I think you can create a system where we do end up like caring who wins if it ends up in match play. Like if it ends up, if we got a Scotty Rory final this year at the end of the PGA

“tour season, like one of those two, well, I think we would remember that. I think we would definitely”

remember who won that. And like you can, it's weird because you have the players championship is kind of like the PGA tour champion for the year. And then you have the FedEx Cup, which is like just a big money distribution thing. And and you're more likely to probably remember who won the

players than you are, who won the FedEx Cup. Like I think they got to work towards changing that.

And I, I'm allowed to at least envision that world now where we care who wins the title at the very end of the year. And I think that's more important than we've probably talked about in the past. Like I just think that you got to nail that part. And I have a feeling they'll get get closer to that here in the. Yeah, T.C. What like what stood out to you likes dislikes, winners, losers, what do you think of kind of the overall? I mean going through the the six points like the

the season structure makes total sense. And he included that September and there with like you made a distinction between, I don't necessarily mean that the tour championship is going to be mid September. I just mean we play the president's cup on the rider cup later into the September like that. Consistive fields like I don't I don't know if a single person who's going to disagree with that seems like there's you know like some of those Kurdish strange quotes

in the Adam shoe pack piece the drop yesterday of like yeah like it sounds like they're getting back to that and he's roll-up said like where we went too far the other way in trying to lock down

“our own talent and we're fixing that now. So I think 120 man fields is great like it sucks”

when you're out at a tournament there's only 30 or 50 guys like that's there's just not enough guys out on the course to justify that sort of build out and all of that. Open big I think that's a no-brainer. I would say open big but also like keep the momentum going too. I'd love to see you know and then maybe go back to the west coast because you can go much later into prime time in this in later in the summer if you go back to the west coast and you can in early February right

so I'd love to see him go to a place like a Chambers Bay or a place like a you know shake go back to pebble in August right that's where you know they gotta have all of those conversations major markets this is it makes sense but also I think a lot of the time outside of some of the majors I think a lot of the time the major markets can feel like a shiny object and some of these major markets have so much stuff going on in them that PGA targets washed out and granted maybe

that's a relic of the old PGA tour or of you know the hey we're gonna put a lot more emphasis and a lot more resources behind this or we're gonna make it a true spectacle that remains to be seen but it's a lot easier for the PGA tour to feel big in some of these middle markets when it's the only show in town that weekend versus in you know say a Chicago or in New York when it's there's you know the weather's great and everybody's out on the lake or out on long island

and it's like hey there's there's a bunch of stuff going on and everybody's on vacation kind of thing well let me pause there real quick on the major markets thing because I think it kind of ties back to some of the upper track lower track however I again they're not gonna ever call something lower track I'm just very curious from a nomenclature standpoint how they start to to do that but I am very curious like you brought up like the criticism on and I'm not mean to pick on these

guys but they just started the most recent quotes I've read but like Peter Jacobson and Curtis Strange and Mac Barnhardt some of the people that were in Adam Schupeck's piece that he wrote yesterday for Gauss Lake Barnhardt like Mac Barnhardt's being relevant like I can't believe he got quoted there

circus we're supposed to have all these events we're supposed to help help charity we're supposed to be doing all these things and then I think there was a quote from Peter Jacobson that was like

“you know if you don't like it then you can go to live because that's what they're doing over on”

live and it's like as players play against each other on the live if that's what you want yeah so okay everybody needs to pause because for for five years or so that's exactly what we've been talking about because if they today felt to me like the culmination of like this five to six year conversation we've been having even before players left for live after they left for live

and since the dust is kind of settled a little bit more is like well first you had to keep the

players and the way they did that was with a lot of these like cotton candy you know guaranteed versus like player equity like all the things that have changed over the last the PIP kind of RIP first you got to keep the players then you got to figure out what the players want then you got to try to implement that and then you got to go sell that to all the other sponsors like they've been trying to do a lot of different things at once and to me today kind of felt like the

first and the last six months as the FCC has been working on this has felt like the first time where it's like okay we're all hitting the reset button we're all going to get our arms around what the fuck is actually going on right now and we're going to present like a new plan and part of

“that new plan is both of those things it is an upper track that can go to bigger markets I think”

that makes a lot of sense for like the playoff events right it's like yeah those events seem like they should be Chicago and New York and like kind of what they try to do out of the jump like I don't think that was like it didn't seem like that was some big failure it just seemed like the FedEx cups sucked rather than like the market sucked and then it's all like those season yeah well the last thing is then like that other track like there still is room for the John Dears

the rocket mortgages the like like talk talk to me you guys were in the room like talk to me

about like I forget whoever who asked the question about scarcity basically because that was the

word that I think spooked everybody was like oh my god scarcity means that we're going from 41 P.J. to our events down to 16 and he's trying to turn this in the NFL and this is so stupid and like I walked away from today being like and maybe it was you know maybe he's he was trying to clean up some of that wording mess but he seemed to be taking like the opposite tack sorry yeah he said there's been a lot of discussion about scarcity ultimately scarcity is not about the

number of events we have but rather scarcity is about making every event we have matter and then you know there was a question about misconceptions and he kind of circle back and answer

“this so I think about what I talked about scarcity there's a bit of a misconception that scarcity”

means that dramatic cut and the number of events of the P.J. to our as we know it as I said my remarks scarcity is about making the events we have matter more so I think there will be a place

for most of our events in our new model yeah and so it's I mean here's what I'll I'll call it for

the sake of this there's like a championship series and like a tournament series right like there's still going to be golf tournaments for a lot of money that aren't like a part of this upper track like a part of the championship series and I have a feeling it's going to work kind of somewhat similar to the way the swing 10 and swing 5 next 10 swing 5 works now of like you play well in the tournament series you're going to get opportunities up at the at the higher level and maybe it's

pretty cutthroat you know the bottom 15 guys in last week's event that missed the cut horribly like you're getting relegated and you got to go play on the qualified I don't know how dramatic that will be but that's that's in a sense what he's saying is to how this is going to actually work and all ladder up to each other yeah it seems like there's a it's like we're going to set up a system and we're going to stick to the system instead of instead of doing all these little carveouts or oh yeah

you know what you missed it but you don't actually have to go to the system because you did this six years ago it's like no like all right like like you reference English you know English soccer you know European soccer a couple times as far as promotion and relegation or just like it's like the Premier League and then all right you drop down to first like you're still that you're still playing soccer and football it's just a matter of just playing against different people and you're trying

to earn your way back up and I would imagine the churn they try to almost follow that a little bit too from a churn level of we have you know what is it how many teams are in the Premier League I'm I'm gonna show my ass here. - Who could you all are, right? - Who could say?

- I know, but I'm not gonna say, yeah, I'm gonna tell him. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - I can say it in the truth. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - We're gonna get a real game. - Two of them get promoted up every year.

And it's like that's the churn. I think the other thing is like, same thing with like sponsor exemptions. - Yeah. - No, like that's insane. Like you tell me that like this guy sat next to the CEO of this company three years ago at a dinner and they hit it off and like,

so he gets to be in this, in like our quarter-finals event.

Like you should have to earn your way in

unless you're like LeBron's son in the NBA. Like it's the only kind of exception that I can find. - That's real support. - That's, that's where the 120 thing takes care of it, right?

“I don't think you need to go past 120 to get someone in.”

I think they'll have to potentially look at, like certain situations where they have star players returning from injuries and how that works from a medical situation. They'll have to have a clear answer as to how that all ladders up. Like, that's one, one thing I'm kind of curious on here.

And I have been maybe one of the few like, I don't think the cut thing really matters. Guys out there, I clearly am in the minority from what it sounds like from what most people think. I still, part of that reason has been like,

I don't think they cover the cut very well. I don't think the actual sweat is that interesting. I think it all, you know, they've gone off the air. Sometimes before cuts are finally decided. And I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

I think that has been something that they, when they've gone to these partners for a ton of more money, they've been able to say definitively, no matter how bad, just Thomas plays at Bay Hill, or whatever, it's bad example.

No matter how bad this star player plays, he's gonna be there on that Saturday and Sunday. We have to show him on TV, whatever. He's gonna be there if you want, like, you know, as a sponsor, if you're gonna put up the money for him,

he's gonna be there on that weekend. If they can do this, if they can sell this, still without being able to guarantee that all these guys will make it to the weekend, good for them, and I'm fine to bring the cut part back into it.

I think it was a, whether or not they had to do it,

we could never know, but it was a concession

to appeal to a certain sponsor to be able to say, if you could put up $25,000,000 for this, I can at least promise you this. And I'll say, credit to them if they're able to bring that back. Get all these, get all these sponsors in the boat

with this without making that guarantee, then the whole golf world is also better for it.

“- But also, Sally, I think the important distinction, too,”

is like, we're gonna, we're gonna work really, really hard to format and create a point system that incentivizes guys to play in all of these events. These guys are gonna be guaranteed to show up 15, 16 times instead of eight times.

So I think instead of like, I think cuts are almost humane, sometimes. Of like, you know, if you want to see Justin Thomas or that's a pick on Justin Thomas, who wants to see Adam Scott or Patrick Cantley

when they're 25 shots off the lead on a Saturday afternoon, and they just clearly don't have their game. Like I don't think I'd rather see the 60 guys playing the best golf that week and whittle it down, and then that's how you create new stars

or and that sort of thing. I think the incentives is big. Also, going back to the Premier League, 20 teams. - We're gonna get an hour before. - We're gonna get an hour before. - We're gonna get an hour before you die.

(laughing) - Many people are saying, yeah. - Yeah, I'm gonna get released. - I'm gonna get released. I'm just trying to know what you're talking about.

- I'm just trying to know what you're talking about. - I'm just trying to know what you're talking about.

“- I think to your point, you see the answer to that,”

I would say is like, if you're like nine years old and your favorite player is, well, Jordan Street, let's just say in theory. I don't know if you're nine, why that would be the case. But, you know, any place, like in this the cut,

like you have a chance to go out and watch in your town, you have a chance to go watch them with less crowds out early on Saturday morning. Is the case for not having a cut? And then again, not a lot of people view it that way

and feel way stronger about it than I probably do. But, I think you answer a lot of questions too. In terms of pushing this through the Mule class, like having 120 people is gonna help you with time. That's gonna give you a lot more leeway to get this through.

And if that's necessary to offset, again, if you can throw the needle with the sponsors and keep the Mule's happy, like I think this is like a home run. - I think too, it's like with PGA tour you and all of that.

Like there's still pathways, like you talked about pathways there. He talked about, I think the, just from the level of, like, I think they're just gonna rip up some of the, the kind of the nanny state PGA tour stuff,

some of the entitlements out there. Of like, all right, like you're a top 25 career money list guy. Cool, like that doesn't mean what it meant 10 years ago because persons have exploded.

So you're guaranteed to play in the second track events.

You're not getting into the first track events on that ship. - Well, I think what's gonna be really interesting and this is kind of like the third or fourth step and I'm sure this is this shit that is like, you know, making people pull their hair out right now

or why they haven't made an official announcement is, like the people who came up with these rules are not idiots. Like it's the opposite. They're very good at coming up with, you know, eventualities and carve outs and oh, actually we gotta think

about this scenario and this, we need to plan for it. If this happens and what you basically need

no, you don't get a three year exemption

for winning this anymore.

“I don't know what to tell you, you need to go win it again next year.”

You need to get it, you need to earn it back and I think, I don't know if it's gonna be that dramatic, but that's the stuff he's talking about is, you know, it is truly the players who are playing the best and what I think is so cool,

John, we were talking about this earlier. Like what I think is really, really cool about it is, if you're a player, we'll pick on our beautiful boy, Jordan Speath, you know, I don't know if he fell out of the 120, like he would have been close,

but he certainly has fallen out of the 50 famously and now is in the spot where the tournament is clearly better for to have him there from a sales standpoint, from an interest standpoint. And so then he gets put in this position

where like he accepts sponsor exemptions, and he does compete and he plays well, but it looks like it's a hand out in one way, but it kind of isn't. But the point is like, if he falls out of 120,

dude, sign me up to go watch Jordan Speath play in the John Deer Classic to go fight his way back in. Brooks kept coming from the center. Brooks kept coming back from the center. We're live, right?

And they're like, oh, Brooks is coming back. Like, yeah, let's go see if he can beat, you know, whoever Ricky Castillo, at some point he is doing right now. I'm a deep-y world tour.

It's like, let the system work. These guys have to go back through the proper pathways. Like, all right, you know what, let's say Chelsea got relegated somehow, cool, like you gotta go play that. You gotta go play some fucking weird places

that you gotta go first league or whatever.

We gotta take it out on the soccer stuff. Or there's just no way we're going to say it. This isn't said or so. I'll just see Chelsea get relegated. I don't like Chelsea, all right?

Okay. Yeah, it's just, it's going to be great to see it in practice and saw him. I'm with you on like the next step is just Canyon. Can you push it through?

Can you get everybody on the same page? Clearly, it's been harder. It would have been pushed through already. So, you know, to trauma, what you said earlier, like the June looming date is, like that's not an arbitrary date.

That's because that's when there's a board meeting and I think putting it out there publicly is kind of like, guys, all right, it needs to be done by this day. So let's figure it out. I'm gonna do something.

I would, I would think deesh, it's not as much about the push through with the board and players as it is like unwinding, which need to unwind with sponsored dates. Then use all of that stuff and re-peasing all rejiggering all that together, sounds harder to me

“than getting approval on all of this from the people you need to.”

'Cause it's a really good plan. And like the argument against it is like, but I'm not very good at golf and like that's gonna hurt me a little bit. I just don't think that's gonna fly anymore.

Like I just did that, that's it. - I have golf channel on and they just, they just threw up the PGA champions learning center and Ryan Armer's making his debut or made his debut. So they got like Ryan Armer's, Zach Johnson,

Ben Crane, come on down. - I saw it's been, I think Brentley tweeted out. It was a three year anniversary of the Mules quote last week, so happy anniversary. - I think the other thing too is like,

let's keep talking weird in the silly season. Man, like that's kind of where he said, I think there's some stuff like with regard to the D.P. World Tour relationship where it's coming out that, you know, I think there's

level of sub-citation or sub-cidization. You and Murray had a really good piece in the Guardian today about just some alarm bells going off.

“I think we're gonna have to say, hey, you know,”

this feels like a one-way street right now and we should be getting more out of this relationship.

And basically, and he acknowledged in his presser today,

yes, we've put another proposal or an updated proposal in front of guy-kittings in the D.P. World Tour that is very much like, hey, this is the new reality. And I think if the D.P. World Tour doesn't wanna take that, then I think we're probably headed towards some sort

of breakup of the strategic alliance. And I think that, like, I don't know, I think there's an interesting thing too where you look at an entity like Augusta National and they're basically saying, all right,

we're not admitting the guys that won in the fall series this year. Or let's say in 2028, and say, you know what, we're only gonna let the first track guys in. We're not letting the second track winners in. You know, the rest will come in through the OWGR

or, but I think that they've taken some of those fall series winners or those opposite field winners spots and said, you know what, we are actually going to go back to our core mission of growing the game worldwide and we're gonna say, all right, we're giving this to the Hong Kong Open Winner

or the Spanish Open Winner or, you know, the kind of like what the Open Championship

Like I think that that's something to where Augusta said,

we're gonna put our money where our mouth is and like, we don't think that these fall series events are important.

“And, but I think that's where the toward that needs to say,”

all right, cool, that's when we're gonna go internationally. That's when September through, you know, December or January is when, all right, maybe there is a co-sanctioned Australian event or maybe there is, you know, the Irish Open is also co-sanctioned or, you know, these guys want to play like the Tommy Fleetwoods

and the, and the royals of the world want to play more. 'Cause I think that's where the rubber beats the road a little bit on like, is Roy gonna turn up 16 times to play signature events on the PGA tour and play in the four majors and the players and play the Ryder Cup and play six to eight times

on the DPP world tour, probably not. Like, sometimes got to give that, right? - Well, it depends what the incentive program is. It depends how the points work. It depends how the status work, like all of that stuff.

I think it depends how you're kind of enticing these guys to show up, which it sounds like it's gonna be a pretty, pretty giant carrot that they're trying to create. But, sorry, I wanted to ask you the, so for anyone who is not convinced on, you know, like,

yeah, all of this, I get what you're saying, but like, let's just go back to the old way. That seemed to be working great. - Well, what was essentially, I thought there was a lot that came from his answer about the NFL's media rights

that kind of illustrated, like, this is why we're blowing this up. This is why we're trying to get the house in order. I was wondering if you'd summarize some of that a little bit. - Well, do you just mean, what do you, when you talk about

what the NFL owning, I have about 12 billion of the 30 billion

in media rights? - Yeah, yeah. - What not, well, I'm not sure I understand your question, but, sorry, well, what I was going to try to get at is like,

“I think there's a lot of people who are like,”

why are we doing this, why are we doing this, why are we doing this? And I thought his answer about, like, you know, the NFL is the biggest, like, gorilla in going to the well on sports media rights. And I think the number that he threw out was, you know,

that that market is currently like $30 billion. The NFL is about 12 of that currently, and they've publicly said that they'd like to double that. So do the math on what that leaves for everybody else. And what that means is like, our product needs to get a shift

my words, a shit load better if we're going to be competitive in getting other media assets. And like who knows what will happen with the NFL? And, you know, how those numbers work. But I just, like, I heard that answer, and I was like,

do that, that makes a lot of sense to me. On, you know, the media thing is what drives the whole engine. And if you're going to try to put yourself in the strongest position

“possible, like, that's what is pushing all of these decisions.”

And the time to do this was prior to the last media negotiations. Right. That was that was the, what made the last round. So disappointing and the length of tenure of that deal. Granted it, look, there, there, there, there, there's a ton of flaws to the PGA tour. And one of those major flaws was the fact that

there wasn't a structure at the very top that it incentivized what people like Monahan and the other brass the PGA tour to keep things in motion.

Like, they were, like, they've reaped incredible financial rewards from this

new media deal. And the fact that money keeps coming in the door. And they just, they've, they've rode the coat tails of the product, which is basically Tiger Woods and public, like, the corporate interest in golf being what it was and not tangibly tried to improve the product. And roll apps, like, say, and, no, no, we did one deal too many.

I think, again, paraphrasing. This is not his words. But we did one deal too many without changing what our actual product is. And, like, we have to be visionaries in some way. We have to turn this over. We have to make changes. And, like, you do have to, in some, they were way too slow to do it.

And they needed to live to come into, you know, the ecosystem or the world, the world of golf to actually be able to implement and push change. They would see the urgency in doing it. But this does build off the backs of, like, this signature event model, which has been successful for the PGA tour. It's flawed, and not perfect, but has been successful to the point where, like,

roll apps ability to get this through is helped a ton by the fact that, like, they are on somewhat of a pat. Like, if this, if they were in the 2020 model, trying to push this through now, it would, I mean, look at what, when the, premier golf thing tried to, guys, tried to get a meeting with the PGA tour about, like, changing a ton of things. Like, they couldn't even get it because everybody was

high on the hog and did not feel like they needed to change things. So, uh, this is one of those, I was told, Steph Curry couldn't shoot things that I see out there. Like, you, no matter what, you've got to give live credit for, like, shaking the PGA tour up. It's like, I literally don't know one single person that isn't, like,

And, um, yeah. So I think the, yeah, like he said, hey, my goal is like, I'll talk about anything that ultimately makes the PGA tour better. Right? We'll talk about ideas.

“We'll talk about all that. I think today was a communications win and a clarity win. And then I think,”

it buys him time or it buys some credibility then now to, all right, we need some execution, some operational and some strategic wins moving forward. Um, and not just resigning a 2010 media deal in 2020, but I mean, like, just keeping the keeping everything going. I think on that

$30 billion number, like, I was talking to some friends today about like, why, all right,

why is the, why is the NFL trying to move up the date from, you know, two or three years to now to kind of lock all these entities in? And my sense is that like, it feels like they're, all right, they've got new money in the system with the elicins and skydance and paramount and all of that, and buying, you know, warm birds discovery. Netflix has a bunch of money that they're not spending on that deal. You've got ESPN and Disney still, you know, they're, they're trying to gobble up rights.

You've got NBC and Fox trying to be relevant as far as like, you know, hold on as long as they can to figure out what's next. And then you've got these streamers that don't really know what their strategy is, but they want to spend more money. And it seems like there's, there's more parties at the table now than maybe there will be in two or three years. And to me, it's like, even if the NFL,

“let's say they go to 20 billion, you have to think that it maybe a little bit of that has to be”

incremental as well. Like, if, if to grow above that 30 billion, where like, all right, it's not just

the NFL gobbling up, going from 33% of it to 66% of it, the total would have to go, like, there's got to be some incremental money coming into the system from a Netflix or an Amazon or an Apple from, you know, taking it from 30 to 33 billion or something like that. I think that's right. And if I'm understanding you correctly, the only pushback I would have is, I think golf more than any of those other sports is still like the most beholden to the power of it is being on CBS at three o'clock

on a Sunday afternoon, whereas I feel like the NFL can can be the tail that wags the dog and change people's habits. And like, if you don't like it, I don't know what to tell you, fucking get peacock is like, they can do that. I don't like golf camp. And I think that that's part of kind of the

alarm bells that are ringing. I mean, so I always see this like with baseball all the time is like,

yeah, you can kind of with the best streaming platform ever. Like people still want to watch it on Fox Sports Wisconsin, which it hasn't been in 25 years. It's like people's habits are still just like dude, just make it easy for me to just turn it on with my cable box. And I think that the yeah, it's just, it's just, it's an interesting push and pull. It's Deja on that note, like I think the,

“you know, that's why he, like you saw it at Tori Pines, right? When Brooks came back, he said,”

hey, this is something that transcends golf. This is a front page, ESPN headline or front page of the athletic headline. Let's take advantage of that. Let's, you know, in terms of during NFL football, like during during NFL playoffs and all of that, hey, let's, let's, you know, all boats rise, kind of thing. Um, yeah, I don't know. I guess the two, two maybe disappointments I have would be the, the rollback stuff for the, but also, I don't blame him for, hey, I'm not going to jump into that.

I'm still assessing the situation. I'm a newcomer to golf and all that, but also, I don't think, like he may not view that as a bigad deal as the life or golfers are of, like, yeah, like, all right, we're going to, we're going to change the, the driver head. We're going to change the ball a little bit big deal. We changed the kickoff rules last year in football. We changed the, the, you know, this penalty or video replay and all of that. Like, I think, you know, maybe there's

something like, it probably won't look like at the current present, you know, presented rollback proposition, but I think once you lay it out to him, of like, hey, you can go to better, like, better venues that can still hold, you know, a rollback golf ball or if distances in his big of an issue, you can go to this place, you can go to that place. That improves this product or this is going to create more volatility down the stretch. That's going to help, you know,

drive your ship. We're going to see more more things like we did two weeks ago at cognizant. Like, that's, you know, that's killer. Um, I think the other thing is just not sure. It's like, because not guys certainly are bomb in it right now. Absolutely bombing it every week. It, like, it just seems like we're seeing some massive ball speed number pop up and the question is, why, like, these guys are already in the world. Like, why, why is Adam Scott get still getting faster?

It's pretty darn simple. Like, the stroke's gain data. It's very clear. Distance is a massive

just not applied just to tour players. If you're an amateur, trying to shoot lower scores, adding

distance is one of the most impactful things you can do. That's where the stack system comes in. It's a speed training system that pairs awesome hardware with an app that guides you through the entire process. The workouts are quick. It takes about 20 minutes, a couple times a week in the app. It adjusts your training as you improve. The best part is there's still time. If you start now, you can absolutely add speed before the season really gets going. Honestly, just, and this

is my, this is, not there words. This is my words. A few sessions will change the way your golf

“muscles work. I, I could almost guarantee that. That's how it works. Has worked every time I've”

fallen out of a cycle of doing it. Do like three or four of them over the course of like a week and a half. And I'm, my body just moves so much better through the golf swing. Not just hitting farther, but just hitting it better because my muscles are working in the proper way. So if you wanted me the one bombing it past your buddies this year, check out the stacksystem.com/n-l-u again, the stacksystem.com/n-l-u codenoling up, I believe, get you discount on that as well.

Well, I need it. We just, I put that on the, on the, on the, on the product sheet. That's, that's a, that's a solid, almost guaranteed right there. You can print that. That's an almost guaranteed from solid. There's rules and it's a legal for legal reasons. That's not a guarantee, but it is. That's, it's almost like a longer, regardless of if the driver heads are smaller, it's a little back, right? You're going to help you. You're going to work, Ben. Yeah.

Well, I mean, they're all up, we're all up tipped it off. They're not rolling a back,

“so just keep, you better get faster, guys. All right. Now, but I think the other thing too,”

like on that note is like, it does seem like the worldwide game is, is maybe an after the up, but I think that's, that's been the case for a long time, and it's kind of like, hey, if we lock down the, and make the product a hell of a lot better in the near term domestically, then, you know, what we can do, like, the world's our oyster. We can do a lot of interesting things and get good stuff rolling, you know, worldwide as well. So, well, okay, from a venue, or from a

product standpoint, I want to talk about venues for a second, because that was a big focus of

what he said today, there was a lot about TPC sawgrass, the, the, um, what's the control, I guess, that they have over that golf course, the control to be able to do whatever they want. Two of that golf course to host the tournament in the exact way that they want. I think you're going to hear, we already have heard a lot, a lot, a lot, lot, lot from Brian Rollap about being militant about what makes the product to the product, and then, and then following those

“indicators towards success, hopefully, and I think that, you know, you look at Bayhill,”

that golf course didn't look like that on accident. I don't think you look at what made cognizant really fun. I just feel like the notebook is filling up with, man, these, these weeks are a lot more fun when they're not 36 under birdie fests. Of course, all of this goes hand in hand with the rollback, which we don't need to talk about today, but you can't ignore that. I don't think, but you guys have been out at TPC sawgrass. I don't think, again, I don't think it's an accident that

it seems like the ball's bouncing higher. It seems like the roughest thicker. So I tell me a little bit about what you've, what you've been seeing out there and what we're in for this week. It is noticeable. You go down to any, and look, this could all change tomorrow. We'll get this weather stuff here as well, but you go to pretty much any hole that you laid eyes on. You're just like, whoa, that's a little little tent of purple in that. And, you know, I went and watched a couple guys hitting shots around

the second green, third green, fourth green yesterday. And even just little green side pitches are

making like, it's not like, it's not Australian open real Melbourne firm out there. I don't think we're in for something that's like, this is going to blow your mind how firm it is. But it will blow your mind compare to recent March TPC sawgrass players championships, which have disappointed it on a lot of fronts from a setup and a ground me perspective. And just how it affects the way the golf tournament is played and how it is enjoyed. I would strongly venture to say. And it just,

I watched just a couple of holes. I followed Andrew Novak and Cameron Young around for a couple of holes and in sedarsh and yellow morazies was in that group as well and watching just like the different impact for the different shots and watching them chip from short left of three from the fairway. And being able to hit excellent pitches with spin and holding the green on the upslope into the grain and stopping it near your holes and then go over the right side of the green and the rough

and in the moguls watching the ball hit the fringe. Bounce almost to knee height from green side pitches and having no one able to even come close to any of the little cup things that they had out there like the balls, they're not in control of the golf ball from out of position. I watched Andrew Novak hit not one, not two, but three drives on number four as a as a no vacator. I need to mention all that. I want to shut you out. You were trying to protect him in your tweet. I saw that.

Yeah. I tried to set it down. I'm dead. Just tell everybody what you mean. I don't get it.

on this bit. This is kind of a good bit. I think I think we're going with this. I don't know if

you ever found his ball from about six feet left of the fourth fairway. His first driver, if he did,

“he dropped, or if he didn't, he dropped one over there. And I think the lesson he learned”

there quickly is, hey, if I hit it over here, this tournament I'm laying up because I is ball barely reached the water out of that rough. Cameron Young was in the right fairway bunker and like kind of call on a little bit fat. This doesn't mean anything to the firmness of them. It's hard out there. And it went in the water. And Yelmaraj was in the middle of the fairway. He hit a three way to the middle of the fairway and hit like a very nice short iron or wedge into the green,

bounded and landed up top and held with spin. And it deserved to help to hold. And it was like boom, three shots on display right here of why this is going to be an awesome, some golf tournament

if the weather stays away. And if you drive it in the rough, be prepared to have a bad bad time.

You're not going to get bailed out. You're not going to have the ability to just run it through a green and stop it somewhere convenient where it's going to be an easy up and down, which I hate. Like there's going to be emphasis on the driving accuracy part of it. It is just going to make for some really, really, really good golf. If the rain that comes tomorrow doesn't ruin all of that. And to be honest, and I'm not a ground MSTC, but like it's a good enough shape right now,

“where I think it can withstand a little bit of rain and not be completely toast. I don't think”

got one rain shower. I think it's maybe a quarter of an inch scheduled for tomorrow. I don't think that is going to ruin what we have right now. Yeah. I mean, geez, you're pointing from earlier

of like, hey, we own this place and we can do what we want with it. It seems like the tour,

like kind of just realized that, like, you're like, holy shit. We could, wait, we could challenge at least maybe the right people at the tour. No, yeah, exactly. Like the warming department. Yeah, high control. And now it's like, no, honestly, like, we should drive this place out a little bit and, you know, present a pretty coherent challenge. And it's like, it's, it's true. Like, like, walking around on a different golf course that it has been the last five or six years.

With regard to firmness and, and just, yeah, they like, they turn the water off much earlier. And, uh, sorry, you mentioned the rough. I think the, the height of cut on this surrounds as well. Like the, you know, the, the ring around 17 or the stuff right of 16 or left of 12. Like, sorry, we fucking rocked them, man. That, that strip left of 12. We said, mow down this chair down this water. And they did, they did. And like, we may see

somebody put it in the water this week. It's, oh, we need to fall the water for Andy's gonna hit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we need somebody to go running after their ball. Like, Nichol said to try to stop it from going in the water and then fall in. That's the best time. But like, truly, it's like, hey, like, this is our canvas and like, we're going to, we're going to lean into, you know, hey, it should bite back a little bit. It should be,

“and hopefully, like, if you wanted to weather, you want to do forecast stuff? No, well, the only thing”

I was going to add to that is is it's just a good by product of a very silly conversation, which is the major thing, right? Where I'm like, okay, this whole thing is stupid and outdated and pointless largely. But man, if it gets you spice and things up and it gets you realizing, like, that really hard tests are going to create the best, you know, the best winners and chasing that side of the game, then like, all right, maybe that's in that positive. I don't know. But it

remains to be seen this week, but I'm just going to tell you what we're going to say. I mean, we mentioned this kind of off the top of just, again, this is where golf gets really interesting to me and where you can nerd out a little bit on, I'm sure like, I'm working this into an ad. I'm just going to telegraph this. What we tease off the top of with title of stuff of like, I bet guys are making tweaks this week, honestly. And like, one of the things that has

come out, I know of fitting for all of us is how, how, how, how we, I think we're all in blended sets of irons in some way, right? And like if I asked either of YouTube to describe what, what the descent angle is on your forearm right now, like, could you tell me? Like, I could tell you because of this conversation. Only because I had it explained to me over and over, I'm like, what the descent angle needs to be, the 3D's distance dispersion and descent angle, all of that stuff because of

like working with titleists and doing all of this stuff for, you know, reasons like this. So, yeah, I just know because like, when we're at TPI last week, I specifically, I was like, hey, my 4-iron, I, I have two big of a gap between my 4-iron and my 5-wood, I need to bridge this gap and so I put a U505 in with a graphite shaft and then I have to am playing around with the 899 in the T250, not to. But yeah, like, I, like, I'm very much here on Bermuda, especially like,

or on firmer greens, like, that shit matters, especially the descent angle. Like, on a whole,

be coming out of the east on Saturday, probably out of the northeast on Sunday. It's going to be

inoff the left on that whole, like, that's going to be a man-sized golf hole, especially with rough, that's, like, four and a half inches long surrounding it. No. We watch your approaches into 16 as well. Like, it, you know, if you don't have the proper descent angle on something like that, it is running through the green into the water and, you know, like, what we've kind of, I'm in, like, a T250-4-iron, which is going to launch it higher because everything I would hit,

you know, if I went to 150 all the way to 4-iron, that's where they figured out the gap was. They said I couldn't even go on a two T250-5-iron and I might at some point because I love how much height you get out of that. And that's, that's, I don't know, the fact that we're talking about conditions bringing something like that out and tying something in of, like, what we've learned, you can't do this stuff on your own is my point. Like, title.com, get fit for something like this,

is, is the overall trying to make it all of this, but continue to teach. Well, yeah, I think the venue stuff is, is fastening. I think it goes along with some of the, the post-season stuff, the playoff stuff we talked about, which is, there seems to be this overarching, like, whatever makes the competition most compelling is kind of, like, over and over and over, what I think you're, you're hearing. And I kind of like it, even here's some of this in, like,

with Ryder Cup talk, when you just kind of start hearing team Europe say the same mission statement over and over and over. The same verbiage over and over. It's like, oh, man, people are starting to actually like, be on the same page here. This is great. And the more you kind of hear the tour talk or roll app talk or whatever, the more you kind of hear that stuff shining

“through, which is the only thing that, like, I have been somebody that is very, very pessimistic”

about a golf postseason, the golf playoffs, any of that stuff, but at least when it's accompanied

with, this is, like, it has to be compelling first or it's not going to work is where I,

I kind of walk away from this whole conversation of, like, all right, man, if you can marry that up, like you said, Sally, with getting the mules on board, getting the sponsors on board, getting the networks on board. All right, I feel like we're all rolling in the, in the same direction here. And that's maybe kind of like my lasting synthesis or take away from, from the day, if I was trying to describe why I feel so optimistic is, is it's that, is that it feels like we

are kind of putting the, the product truly, like, first. And I think that starts this week. Again, where it's like, are we putting our money where our mouth is here? Is this, is this going to play, like, a major championship golf course or is it not? Are we going to, you know, when we get to June, are we going to revamp the playoffs or are we not? Is, you know, at every turn, it, like, seemed like all that stuff was on the table. He wasn't married to stay in that East Lake,

you know, like, yeah, we really want to have it with East Lake be in April,

“pretty masters or pretty masters. Yeah, awesome. Totally. Um, and like that, I think that's the other”

thing of like, I almost think back to like, I've been coming to this tournament for the last 11, 12 years straight. And like, it's such an awesome golf course. And it's such a great place to watch golf, but I feel like it's just been a shell of itself until an hour or like we've been making compromises this whole time and it's like, you don't have to. I think there's, like, we don't have to set it up like that. Like, let's, let's, let's have confidence in the people who are, you know,

running PGA tour, a grown-in-me and PGA tour competitions of like, hey, like, put them in charge, like, what do they want to see? Oh, like, well, there's, there's more of an emphasis to, to challenge these guys and, and, you know, more consequential shots and more consequential moments, cool, like, you know, put the owners on the players a little bit more. It also seems like reading between ones to that, like, the tours, if it goes well, now we're, we're kind of getting into, if this,

then that. But if it goes well, and they start seeing some, seeing the ball go through the hoop on, on exactly what we're talking about here, they're going to get addicted to that kind of control, and they're going to get very, uh, impatient with traveling around to different clubs and having to work with different memberships. And we can't actually do that because we have this

member guessed that weekend. That always is like, they're going to get very impatient with that

stuff, which is where I think it ties back to him talk, this is a projection by me, but I think

“it ties back to some of that SSG stuff, right? It's like, that was the only thing he kind of sort”

of tipped his hand on, just like, maybe this, this investment helps us basically put up the, you know, the money to have the events that we want to have. Maybe they, I don't know if that means actually getting ownership of different venues, or if that means if they have, a network of pride, of course, DC, that were purpose built to host, uh, tournament golf, and then the players had an equity interest in those and players could go and play and practice

no, but like, you know, honestly, like, yeah, like, I think there is maybe, unless you do something with distance in some, like, there's all those courses at the wrong time, right? Yeah, there's well, yeah, and with the wrong architects and they were residential plays and all of that, but like, hey, let's say you made it considered effort to revamp that or refresh that,

“and because I think there is probably a crisis of, you know, some of it's going to the wrong,”

like, we go to good courses in a lot of markets, sometimes at the wrong time of the year, too. That's that's part of it, but there's also a crisis of like, I don't think there's enough good courses in this country, at least they can host PGA's or events, you know, for about two to reasons.

Yeah, or, or, you know, maybe that's part of the solution is, hey, we're going to, we're going to move

around a lot more, and we're going to, this course doesn't have to give their venue up or their their property up every year. They, you know, you sign something, and we're going to do this every three years, every four years, and there's more, there's more road, it's kind of like what, what the BMW championship is done to where, you know, hey, you want to host something, but I mean, sorry, you're a member of Tim Aquana, like, it's like, it's, it's it's senior torrent of it,

and that's like the most disruptive part of the year out there, right? It's like, it's, it's a huge impact, right? And it does damage to the course, and it stays damaged over the course of a winter and the grass is going to go back. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a lot, it's, it's not, you know, it's, it's not the one week where they're playing on the course that's the problem, you know, that, but yeah, they're going to, they're going to be interested in owning these courses and these venues that

they're going to be going to in a lot of different ways, just owning the setup and being like the arbiter of what kind of golf's going to be played on on, and the first opportunity to come with it, that's going to be, that's, that's more important to them still. Like that's, that's, if I was to have any kind of a pessimistic view of the roll-up era is, he's not a golf purist, I don't think he's going to magically like create the style of golf that is the most aesthetically pleasing to, you know,

us golf nerds in particular, I think it's a commercial play. They're going to try to make as much

“money as possible, and that's what the mandate is, but I think we're going to be closer in that”

then diagram of, you know, what the fan wants to see and what's going to be commercially positive for the PGA tour is going to, it's going to, there's some in the right direction on that. I think the, the, I don't think they're doing this with a love of the game, though, is where, like, where I would draw the line, you know. Oh, I think I just hope that, you know, I think that there's some people there, and some people who can rely on to like, all right, I've got the tact,

give me some taste here on the golf front of like making sure that it's not just like, hey, we're going to Liberty National, how fucking cool is that skyline there? Like, no, like, all right, or like, blow Liberty National up and let's start over and create a compelling, you know, venue there, like, layout, but I think, um, I don't know, I just think that there needs to be,

yeah, that, that discerning level of like, all right, here, here's what makes a good venue, and

we are also like, we hear you golf, pure golf sickos, core fans, like, saw, like, one of the other

“things that stuck out this week that feels like almost an afterthought, but I think it's a big deal.”

So we've talked about it for 10 years. Like, how is there not a golf sounds of the game, or sound effects like on NFL network? Brian Robbs bringing NFL films into produce, yeah, basically said thing this week with certain players, or they're bringing, you know, they're bringing in a variety of other things. It's like, they're basically saying, hey, you know what, like, the current, the current offerings aren't cutting it. We're going to add

more to the table here. Hearing hearing some of the stuff about what they have up their sleeve for that program this week, as well. Like, has me jacked up as a, I true just like, a core fan, yeah, man, like, hang, like fly on the wall for golf moments. Yeah, I like, hey, we're going to build this narrative, 10 months after the fact in full swing, and it's going to be totally disconnected from what you were actually remember happening. Like, no, here's us taking you, it's real as close as you

can get to the action. Yeah, and it's incredibly, it could be one of the coolest pieces of gone golf content. Like, we've seen the professional level. If it turns out the way I'm picturing it, and I'm sure the way they are picturing it, and if they happen to get the right guys that that are

in the mix, in this, like, it could be, it could be truly incredible. At minimum, I think we're in

for one of the most unique pieces of content we've ever seen come out of a major golf tournament. Dave, I did not mean to say major, a significant golf tournament, it's a day, it's just, it's accepted at me. It's not, it's not a major, it's not a major, because this was this was US open or open championship, Tureko's bringing us in on Thursday, morning, Thursday, midday,

TC and do another hour at least about each of them, probably, but let's leave it there for now,

“move on to, to this week, TC, I didn't get a couple of things in the, in the notebook. What do we,”

what do we got our eye on? First of all, the weather, we got our eye on the weather,

talking to our chief, our chief meteorologist here at the, at no laying up, but protract holdings, and really here in Jacksonville. First coast news zone, new Turner, Lewis Turner, the great man himself. He's, uh, it sounds like tomorrow, this front's going to push through pretty, hopefully pretty quick. According to his models, he sent over some of his proprietary models. This is, he says his models tend to overstate some of the rainfall totals. He's saying he's saying between point, like

one tenth of an inch and less than half an inch. So it's probably in that point two point three inch thing should come in after lunch time and, and then move out, and then then we get a wind shift, DJ, and the wind is going to come out of the northeast. That's, that's, that's the good when you can cancel Christmas. Yeah, right. That was, that was, that was, we got a long, long bell emoji in our slack, and I was like, oh my, there is going to be some breaking news here from TC,

it was just a change in the wind direction. And I, it's how good it is. I just don't know if that was we only get it like one, seven, four, five years during this week during this tournament. Like, I need it. It's diabolical. It's in off the right on 17. It's, you know, it's in off the right on,

“on 18, 13 gets really tough to control your, your trajectory there. So, I'll get there. I think”

Friday of cool's off Friday. We get sunny and cooler. High of 70 Saturday, pretty much, same deal as Friday. Maybe winds moving a little bit more out of east, southeast. Been Sunday, TBD, could get dicey, not a lot of moisture in the forecast, but potentially some, some electricity in the forecast. So, so we'll see what happens there. Maybe looking at an early, you know, earlier start on Sunday to get it in because Monday doesn't look great either. So, we'll see,

but yeah, basically tomorrow we just got to dodge this, dodge this frontal system that's,

that's moving through and going to cool things off. But yeah, just got to hope that kind of runs through and only dumps a tenth of an inch because I think the course can very much take that. Otherwise, of note, we've got, yeah, thank you, Lou. If you see Lou out there this week, I know it'll be out there. You know, just thank him for his service. He's been a long time supporter of the program and very generous with, with, with his models. governing bodies like I said,

there's an equipment meeting this afternoon. Rory flew in this afternoon, hit balls that a little

“mini presser. I think conspiracy T.C. thinks that Rory just wanted to think out at home for a few”

more days and, and chill and, and, you know, we'll see what happens. And I don't know, maybe, maybe there's, maybe they, the aforementioned D.P. World Tour PGA Tour 2027 skism is at the forefront there, but that's just me injecting on sense into the mix. We'll take that through another episode. And you got, yeah, you guys wouldn't be like, this is like glimpse into what we deal with on a daily basis. There's something that just me, quote, me injecting nonsense. It's true. I really think that if they,

if the, if the, if the tour goes too hard at the D.P. World Tour and says like, we're going to cut, we're going to cut the knees out from under you. I think I think guy canings in the D.P. World Tour go, go straight to the Oster and say, here's your off ramp for your shitty live product. You inject all this money into the D.P. World Tour. We integrate the live players, two national opens and it's the, it's the global golf tour and the PGA Tour is the U.S. golf tour. I got truly

think, I don't know, but that's that's the off ramp there. What else we got? We got an Oksha and curing update. Todd Lewis on golf, your live from last night said that Gary Young looked into his technique out on the pudding green, assessed it and cleared him of any wrongdoing. Paul McGinley and Brando had a great great chat about it last night on live from life froms awesome. I can be big weeks later. It elevated it sets the stage. I chatted with Paul today said like, hey,

like that was a great chat last night. I, you know, Brando was making some very non-suttle references to burn hard longer. Guys are refusing to sign his scorecard,

basically Adam Chams tour, but like, A they said that it's a very, very poorly written rule

they're not coming anywhere, like they're an inch or two off of their shirt or like they're not

either anywhere close or sorry, who use the water body to anchor. Like they're, they're making it clear whereas Oksha is like, no, like he's touching his shirt and it's very like he's putting himself like the governing bodies aren't doing anybody any favors and then Oksha is not

“doing himself any favors either and I think that that's an important thing of like, you know,”

like, oh, like Gary Young going out who's not the, you know, Gary Young is is kind of a pushover, right? Like he's, he's going out there saying, all right, Oksha, show me your stroke, are you anchoring here? It's like, they're on the pudding green. He could easily just not anchor, right? Like just bring it, bring it away from them. So I don't know. I think the whole thing is, is it's unfortunate because we shouldn't be having this conversation and I would implore the

U.S.J. in the RNA to, like just fix the fucking rule. Yeah. It seems like the U.S.J. should be able to just swoop into the moment like that and hand out tickets. Yeah, there's like now you've been cited. Yeah, you were angry. I got it on the fourth order. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're actually purple, right? Get them all right, you need buzzer. Like I just know, yeah, if it hits there,

“like, I don't know, go replace this week. You can't touch your shirt straight up. You can't touch”

your shirt this week. Local rule. If you don't do it, T.C. Maybe this is like it. Scotty Presser, T.C. What do you think? Oh, it's great. It was great. I really, really enjoyed him geeking out about one of my, what has become one of my favorite topics, which is just dudes who can play different golf on different courses and accomplish strong results. He had an awesome three-minute answer all about the difference in the challenge between playing Pebble Beach, where all you're

trying to do is take spin off your golf ball at all costs because it's going to get hammered by the wind. The greens are mush as he says. All you're trying to do is take all the spin off your golf ball that you can and then you go to Bay Hill and all you're trying to do is put as much spin on the golf ball as you possibly can. And the fact that we're just like, what the fuck, why can't

“these guys win at both tournaments is just a an unintentional humble brag by Scotty, I think. Like it”

is him being like, here again, this is my read into it, not at all what he was saying. But to me, I'm hearing this is just like, these are the things I'm doing every week that you guys are not even noticing and I just keep finishing T2 and T3 and T5 every single week. And it's just, it's kind of what was going through my head when you guys are talking about this week's venue and how some of our grass is going to play so much different than, you know, even all the other golf

courses that we've seen this year. So it's just, it's a cream should rise more. It's a wildly underrated, you know, just part of pro golf that we almost like just take for granted, I think. And I just, I really like this guy that won that that won the marathon gold medal is in competing. Yeah, exactly. What the hell, just play better. He's got to want it more. I think my thing going back to the last few of Scotty, we've been having this talk internally on our slack

is like how Scotty gets up there and he says the most thoughtful, you know, golfy, like really, really conscientious stuff as far as his game and his plays in the game or the way he approaches different golf courses and all of that. And then he goes and like that's where, like that's where I get frustrated with the bitchiness of like that's the same person, right? And there's a dissonance there a little bit of that's like if it was, if it was some, you know, more on hothead who's just

who never gives us anything good and press conferences or whatever, you know, out there throwing

clubs or getting frustrated and acting powder, whatever, but like it's Scotty who you know is like, you know, he's standing there and he's like kind of opening up and saying really, really interesting stuff and then he's also going out and just like, you know, acting like he deserves to make everything inside of 30 yards. It's just, it's tough for me to square those two personas, I guess. Yeah, I get that. He had some good stuff to about commitment and I encourage people to just go

watch the whole presser, but he was, you're talking about like his goals and his how he views results and how he stays locked in on the process and all this stuff and he started talking about like

basically like my, all my goals are just like shop by shop. He's like, you know, truly like

one shot at a time like that's what that means is I have a certain expectation of every single

sick, which as an optimist, I'm looking at that as like, yeah, that's probably why he's frustrated

“man, because he's like, he's talking about he's like, yeah, the last couple weeks, I had had moments”

where I just, I was not as locked in, I was not as committed as I should have been and then I put myself in a bad spot. And so again, I get that it's, it's unbecoming, it's bitchy, it is all of those things. I'm just a little bit of Tommy Lee Jones where I'm like, I don't, I don't really care, it doesn't bother me that much. But you're welcome to be as, as, as a grieved as you, as you want to be, I get it. I'm not entitled to being a grieved either, like it's, you can do whatever

fucking wants. Sure. We all have our moments. That's, that's true, exactly. Hey, guys, I feel we're getting very close here. I'm, you know, it's a big week. We got a lot of live shows going on. I appreciate everybody who's stuck on this far. I said, hey, I'm going to give away it's more often during these live shows. I got a new giveaway tool here. I hope, hopefully, people can see that. I asked people to do a little wind in honor of Lou here. I don't know why it's not getting better. But

we're going to do random drawing. So indeed, you have a beautiful hat in order of, oh, that

amazing hat. I am going to ship x-ray punk 1159. Go ahead, shoot me an email. There you go.

Sorry, you also have an awesome titles hat. All I have is ropes, baby. You know me. I love it. Sorry. That rope in the wind. Let's see who the next one is going to be there. But anyway, I'm going to rope you did. We're at the final precipice here of the 2026 players championship. Have you guys changed Matt Fisher 1172. Please also hit me up. Have you guys changed? You think it's actually going to win this tournament? I'm not just talking myself into Scotty as I was saying all that.

But no, I love, you know, I got my feeling on Adam Scott. And I loved his, he had a great presser this week talking about the old vibes of when he won here for the first time and was at 04. And you know, sitting at one of those restaurants and over here and somebody say like, you know, some fucking no name is leading the tournament and he was sitting right next to him. It was just 63 out Thursday or Friday. It was just good stuff. He's got, he seems like he's got good

“spirits. It's all he'd tell me he's bombing it. You know, so I think it's, I think it's, I think it's”

an Adam Scott week for me. TC. I'm still going Ludwig. I haven't laid eyes on him yet this week. I haven't laid hands on him. No, I know. That's that's a good thing. Yeah, I know more of Kyle's odds of having, I don't know, plummeters right where they've gone from like in the 30s to like mid teams, I think as far as his, his odds. But no, I'm sticking, I'm sticking with Ludwig. I think we're, I think we're in for a big hot boy summer. One of the interesting

solid. I'm on Scott. He's still, I'm not moving. Again, I'm just might just continue to try to be early on on his triumphant comeback from his falling outs like the top 20 for one time. Yeah, yeah, no.

Yeah, that's good to that. All right, we'll save the, it's some fun stuff from the first

time or presser. We've got live shows after every, you know, every night this week, which I'm

“stoked for. I will say, I think Stephen Fisk and I like we might now be best friends. I love that.”

Long time podcast listener. He was like, Oh, DC, what's up? What's new every week? It's like sick. That's great. And then also, yeah, just the, keep an eye out on 11. There's a new tower on 11 that they're going to show us the second shots on that's going to be sick. And then all the wind graphics are back this week. They've got the stuff that's like they show the different levels of wind on especially on 16 to 17 where if once it gets above, you know, say 70 feet,

they're going to get the, all right, like you're going to get a wall of wind above 75 feet or whatever. So also, Sabel Offshore is absolutely ripping today. So if you just shout out to Jonathan Nichols and Mountain Gradulations, anybody, anybody holding that one. All right, let's call it there, Cody, thanks for running the ones and two, shout out to T.C. and Sully for a great day down at the players. Thank you to our friends at title list, our friends of Robac, our friends at the stack and like Cody

said, we're going to be live after each round this week at the players, decided to excited to keep it rolling. Talk to everybody tomorrow, cheers.

-Mid-visu steu-ya!