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Last week, Tom and I sat down with California governor Gavin Newsom, in front of a live audience here in Los Angeles, to discuss his new book, young man and a hurry, a memoir of discovery. We also talked to him about Trump's war in Iran, the race for Newsom's successor in the governor's office,
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So please subscribe to friends of the pod. Cricket.com/friends, check it out. What's so surprising about the book is it stops at your election as governor. It's all about your actual life before public. Yeah, you may want to leave right now.
I mean, the whole idea was, you know, it's interesting, a little bit of the origin story. I was talking back stage. I had the privilege of working with Anne Gaudoff, a legend in publishing, and she was the editor of the book at Penguin Press. And she, interestingly and tragically passed away last week,
on the day of the publication of this book. And anyone that knows Anne, she's fierce, she's tough. And about seven years ago, she asked me if I was interested in writing a book. And it was marked that book by the relationship with Trump 1.0, and a little bit of the transition to the new administration under Biden.
And it was a lot of storytelling about those first four years, chaotic years,
around social and rest issues related to COVID.
“And I submitted the book, and I'll never forget going on Zoom,”
and Anne just, there was something off. And I tried to stop her before we went into arguing the case in the merits for the book, which I was really proud of. And I said, if you want me, I know you may have some concerns. There's one chapter about my childhood and my family.
And I totally get if you want that out. And she goes, that's the only part I want in. So this was not the book I set out to write. It was the book that I had to write in response to that. And it's a book that I mentioned.
It was a memoir, ultimately, of discovery,
Because it was a book that forced me to learn about my childhood.
I learned about my past.
“And that's why I ended with the passing of my father”
to the question you asked. It went through election day where he literally survived to see a son get elected governor of California. And so I thought that was an appropriate way to end the book.
There's an epilogue that has some interesting stories that may fast track to the present a little bit. But it really is a love letter to my mom and dad and my family. [APPLAUSE] You have that election night scene is really remarkable,
given his story, and trajectory, and attempts to get into politics. And we're going to get into all of that in more stories
from the book in a second.
But there's a lot of big breaking news happening in the world. I think a lot of folks like to get your opinion on it. President Trump took us to war in Iran on Saturday. It feels like a little scary out there right now. The attack seemed to be growing in the Middle East.
There's not really a clear plan coming out of the White House.
“What's your sense of whether it was necessary to go to war now?”
And do you think Democrats should be taking steps to try to block Trump's war powers voter something in Congress? Yeah, I'm a little old-fashioned. I believe in co-equal branches of government.
You know, we are celebrating. [APPLAUSE] It is the 250th anniversary of the Declaration Independence after all. And this historic project, the best of Roman Republic,
Greek democracy, the notion of popular sovereignty, the rule of law, not the rule of dawn, which will get into perhaps later. But I hope it's not in everybody. He had no plan, no strategy.
He had no interest or desire to engage you me, all of us, in understanding the why, why now? Let's see, imminent threat. What are they intended and unintended consequences? The prospect of this becoming a regional war
was that thought through who was going to take over for the Supreme Leader, particularly after you went through 49 others. And now today, Trump says, well, maybe it doesn't work out. Maybe we get someone who's worse.
But nothing was more damning, I think, of the moment and this administration, and who Donald Trump is, goes the heart of who he is than his press conference yesterday, where his remarks, where he was lamenting the live now at six, but four Americans that died.
And he mentioned them in passing. And then went on to mention in great detail the drapes. And the imperial palace on the East Wing that he's building, and went on to talk about the piled up, with real passion and conviction.
It says everything about Donald Trump, the uncertainty in the world, to the fact that we've allies under threat in UAE. We've got proxy war begins once again, with Hezbollah in Lebanon.
We've got all the anxiety as relates to 20% of the world's oil flow and issues related to oil and prices and shocks and energy concerns and your 401(k) and the Zig and the Zag. And it begs so many questions. Why?
It's got a passion for design. It's got a passion for identity. But it's just-- So yeah, you asked me about the War Powers Act. You asked me about invoking some consideration.
I mean, it takes a cursory look at the Constitution to determine the requirement declaration of war for the president to get Congressional approval. And so I appreciate Congress now getting back not the leadership, but the minority getting back
into the game in this respect. But this is a hell of a thing.
“And this is-- remember, you guys all know this.”
He has done more air strikes in his first year
than the last administration did in four years. This is the seventh incursion twice now in to Iran. At a time when he's cutting taxes for billionaires, he's cutting food stamps, he's cutting Medicaid, he's cutting Medicare.
And here he is spending tens of billions of dollars. Not for recovery here in Los Angeles. He has no interest in that, but overseas. This is a broken president. He's historic because he's historically unpopular.
And we all have to recognize the moment we're living in, and how perilous this moment truly is. [APPLAUSE] You mentioned the shift in explanations and rationales that are coming out of the White House.
Yesterday, Marco Rubio pretty explicitly said that the timing of the operation was based on planning by Israel.
He basically said, we knew that these railways
are going to strike Iran, which men Iran would strike back against our bases in the region, which
Means the U.
and bomb the Iranians first.
What did you make of that explanation?
“And then a lot of Democrats have looked at the Netanyahu”
regime and felt like, you know what? We don't like the trajectory he's on. It's time to rethink the U.S. relationship with Israel, especially military support. Where do you think in that easy, right?
Now, let's talk about that. So the first rationale is we've got to make sure that they're not a nuclear on. But we, of course, that rationale I thought was resolved, meaning we had completely obliterated their sites.
And so that was the first rationale. They know, OK, so well, maybe that wasn't the case. But now it's about their missiles. And they can perhaps hit the United States. And then you realize, wait, that's a decade plus away.
If that-- so that's BS. OK, then it's about their militias. It's about their proxy. Then it's know it's about their Navy. And then it's know it's in response to the likelihood
that Israel was going to. So we had to go in ourselves. And then you hear Exah, God help us. And then his rationale are not rational. So this is a keystone cops.
But playing with real lives with our reputation. They've already-- I mean, so you see what's having our allies, you see what's happened. And they don't aligns in the context of truth and trust in the conversations that all of our allies are having
now with India and with China. Is there strengthening those relationships because they're starting to decouple or derisk their relationship with the United States? But the issue of BBs is interesting.
Because he's got his own domestic issues. He's trying to stay out of jail. He's got an election coming up. He's potentially on the ropes. He's got folks, the hard line, that want to annex the West Bank.
I mean, free men and others are talking about it appropriately, sort of, in a part-time state. They couldn't even. I mean, we're talking about regime change. For two years, they haven't even
able to solve the Hamas question. And Israel. So this is-- I mean, I want to be careful here. But in so many ways, that influence in the context of the conversation
where Trump ultimately landed on this is pretty damn self-evident.
And so Rubio may have been saying something else in the context of what he ultimately said. In terms of being sort of pulled into some of these things. But I will say this didn't surprise me in this context. I don't know if it's Napoleon or whoever said about a sword.
“The only thing you can't use a sword for is sitting on it.”
And when you bring to our craft carriers out there, and you assemble the kind of military force that Trump did over the last few weeks, it didn't surprise me, ultimately, they moved that direction. Do you think looking down the road that the United States
should consider maybe rethinking our military support for Israel? It breaks my heart because the current leadership in Israel is walking us down that path. Where I don't think you have a choice, but that consideration.
I mean, to say this is an America's interest. At a time when affordabilities, it crisis levels, where you had a administration, you literally got elected saying, this is exactly opposite of what they would ever consider doing.
The fact that we are in this now regional war, all these proxies, the fact that we, and all the griffed in the corruption, it's also marks a huge part of this. And that's a real conversation we need to have,
this board of peace in the peace that the Wittkov family's getting, in the peace that Kushner is getting, in the peace that Trump Jr. is getting. (audience applauds) You just got to reconsider the whole thing.
You just have to. And that's a stubborn, but I didn't expect to be in that place. You know, a few years ago, little on, you know, where we are today. And it's accelerating in real time
in a deeply, deeply alarming way. And it's just one of many alarm bells that are ringing. We can get it to democracy, our republic,
“we can get into what's happening with the secret police,”
the bovino vacation of our streets, and what's happening in this country with democracy. You know, it's a precious and perilous time, but it also has parallels. And some of those are reflected in some of the storytelling
in the book. And some of the revelations about my own families, relationship to the red scare to Oppenheimer, to McCarthy and McCarthyism. And some of those currents, some of those tenants echo today
in many respects. One more newsy question. I'll connect it to the book, not that.
In the book, you're talking about your first race
for governor, and you talk about one of the strategies. You guys pursued was that you sort of directed your advertising campaign against a Republican candidate
That was running, and set because if, you know,
that's top two vote getters in California in the primary go on to the general, and if it was you and a Republican, in this case, John Cox, supported Trump, then you were to have a much easier general. And if it was Antonio Viragosa, it would have been
a little trickier, so you elevated John Cox and it worked.
“And I know people hate that, but it worked, you know?”
And now, even though you are, of course, irreplaceable, there is a race, you don't know if you're going to hear that. Start a bit of a placeable. There's a third term, yes. There's a very, don't worry, don't worry.
Do you have the hats? Though I do have a hat on my, on my Patriot site, you can check it out with our knee pegs,
and new some was always right hats, but I digress.
You were asking me a question. Very crowded field of Democrats, a couple polls have actually shown that it's so crowded, and they're splitting the vote so much that, you know, has the two Republican candidates in the one-two spot, which would mean a Republican governor
of California. Today, the chair of the California Democratic Party said, "Look, if you're not making meaningful progress towards winning the primary and you're a candidate by April 15th, you should drop out."
I saw the speaker of the assembly agreed as well. Do you agree with that as well?
“You know, it said, "Russie, Hicks, his head of the party”
sent me his statement on a Reddit a few hours ago, and I confess I agree." And I don't really process it because there's just, I mean, at this moment in history, with all the peril and promise that marks this moment, for California,
the most untrump state in America, to have a Republican Trumper running, there is no margin for air and so look, but I do confess. It is the hardest thing. I used to, when I was running for governor,
and that was all about me. And I'm like, "What is this, Jerry Brown? Why doesn't he, you know?" And I was his lieutenant governor. And I said, "Just go out of the state, governor.
Go out, do you why you're still talking like you matter?" Oh, that now I feel his pain. And I'm like, "I'm sorry, Jerry, it's hard when you're like, I'm a milk carton, I got a cell by date." And it's a countdown, by the way, my daughter is 16.
She's like, "Oh, she can't wait till I'm no longer governor." Circle in the day. Yeah, she's like, "It's freedom, it's liberation day. The real liberation day for her." But it's, you know, look, this thing's around the corner.
“I think it's been hard, just a brief reflection.”
You know, this race hasn't, I don't think it's getting the kind of attention it deserves. And it's hard at a time of Trump and Trumpism, where so much of our politics is so nationalized and the ability to dominate the narrative and the shock and awe that his Trump has taken. And of course, last year, so much it was marked by a lot of the work we did around
the, you know, Prop 50, et cetera, and so I appreciate that. You all did on that. So it's, it's been a little more difficult, and you've got an election in a few weeks early voting. It's not even that many months, and so this is a moment for real self reflection.
Is it about you? Is it about me? Or is it about all of us, and the stakes couldn't be higher? And so all I'll say is choose wisely. [MUSIC]
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You've been saying that writing this book made you realize that for most of your life, you're trying to be someone you're not. Who are you trying to be? I don't know.
“Oscar Wild says, you know, the first duty in life is to strike a pose.”
The second duty, no one knows. I feel like I'm in that second phase. You know, the first phase I struck a pose, I put a mask on and my face was growing into it in some respects. You know, quite literally, is a kid right about putting on a suit.
You know, I try to put on this armor, you know, is a kid that struggled in school. It's a pretty severe learning disability that still marks who I am today. A lot of my anxieties, my insecurities, but I was also marked by those moments that I
never fully understood until I wrote the book and learned about them.
In a way that I never understood it, give you an input point of that. My mom was 19 when she was pregnant with me. And a few years later, she was on her own with two kids. My father, for reasons neither of them explained left. Just a few years after the birth of my sister was here tonight.
And I didn't understand it until I learned about it, an oral history, that he had done that none of us knew about at the bankroft library. And someone said, when I was asking about my father, and do you guys know why they got divorced? They never talked about it. They said, "Well, did you hear the interview we did in the bankroft library?"
So he said it to a stranger and never told us. And he said that he, and there's reason that I'm telling this story. He lost an election for County Supervisor. Turn around the next year, Rand for State Senate, lost both races. And in the interview, he said he was broke and broke in.
And he had a breakdown and just had to get the hell out of there. And he left. And he went up to Lake Tahoe region.
And for years and years and years, not only did I not understand that, I also never understood
why my mom was so insistent that I never get in a politics.
“Up until her nine days, she's like, "You need to run, get out of this."”
And by the way, when that recall against me, you know, qualified, she spoke very loud me, it means that she passed away in that moment. But it makes sense now. Here she was coming from no wealth, no money, no privilege. Got married to a guy who was 32 years old, scandal.
And 19 looking for that mentorship, looking for that stability and support. And here he is, he takes off. Not because he was a bad guy, but he didn't know how to be a good husband. And he didn't know how to be a good father in those early years. And here's my mom, just hard work, grit, single mom.
And by the way, single moms. I mean, just mad respect for all those single moms out there, honestly. Like, I didn't know, my mom died 20 years ago. I'd never told her, thank you. I didn't, that young man in a hurry with that mask on was just me, me, me, me.
You know, I'm just running, running, just hustling, just trying to, you know, I'm grinding away. And here she was, working two, three jobs. And by the way, when I say two, three jobs, I describe every single damn one of them. Part-time bookkeeper, part, you know, working part-time, you know, department store, working
for aid to adoption, special kids, kids with intellectual and physical disabilities, working as a waitress at Ramona's restaurant. And just grinding, grit, we had roommates. We had people literally, well, I walk in my mom's living in the living room because she left her bedroom because she's running out.
She just tried to pay the damn rent. And so what this book is, I'm paying homage to her to thank her for her sacrifice.
Teaching me resilience, man.
Teaching me grit.
And in the process of doing this, also teaching me to let go.
And it's okay, you know, take the mask off, just be yourself. And so this book was cathartic, it's not a sanitized politicians book, man. It's not. I hope that's not. I've read plenty of those.
Yeah. I appreciate those. And I try to scrutinize and I kick the tires and I went deeper and I question my own relationship to, you know, my own participation, my own image of that slick guy and all the whole thing.
I mean, I get it. I get it. And I even about that.
And so this was my opportunity to, you know, tell a different story and also tell the story
that my mom and dad deserve. So look, as you were saying, you clearly have a complicated relationship with your father. I can tell reading the book and in this conversation that you review your mother and all that she did for you and all this sacrifice.
“But I was struck by a comment made to you, I believe, by your aunt, Cindy, who sits”
by the way here tonight. Okay. Careful. She's a star in this book. Fascinating person.
I'd love to meet her. But no, I think she said to you that your parents in attention to your dyslexia as a boy was abuse and that was sort of a jarring thing to read. And I was wondering how it felt to you to hear that whether you agreed. You know, you know, I was in some of you may know this, most of you probably don't
or want believe it. I can't read speeches.
You'll never see me, someone hands me a speech and I start to read it.
I could do a teleprompter and it just takes dozens and dozens of hours for dozens of minutes. And it's hard just sort of focusing on that written word. But allow spatially, I'm able to stare at the screen, I'm able to do it. And that's, you know, my entire life I felt dumb, you know, in the back of the classroom,
you're struggling through school and by the way, you know, wasn't just me struggling. And this again, part of the process, the writing of the book, I can't even imagine what it's like to be a mother, a single mom, trying to read your kids, trying to explain it's okay.
“I mean, my mom said something that I'll never forget.”
I really was angry about it and I grabbed about in the book. She said, in a fit of frustration with me, she said, it's okay to be average. And it's like, damn, and it, I honestly, for years and years, I held a lot of resentment around that until again, in the process of writing this over the last five years, I realized she was struggling.
She's just was saying, it's okay to just be you. You don't have to be someone you're not, you don't have to put that mask on. And so, you know, my, my aunt saw it up close. She saw the struggle, my mom had. She saw me running out of classrooms running away from, you know, he's just constantly
running and searching and struggling and, you know, I'm just, I can't sugarcoat it. And anyone that's got a learning disability, I think you can appreciate this. But same time, you also start developing these superpowers because you start over compensating for the things you can't do as well as everybody else. And that has been the gift and the ability to, you know, sort of absorb and create and look
outside the lines and paint outside the lines, take risks, you have to take risks, learn from mistakes, have a resiliency. All those things are also part of the journey of having a learning disability and having a learning difference. So I'm here because of it, despite some of those early scars that mark those moments
in the book. It's going to ask when one thought I had when you were talking about, when you were writing about dyslexia is, how does it affect you writing? Like, how did that, was it a challenge writing the book? Well, the worst part was doing the audio of the book.
I mean, whoever did the editor, they deserve a pay raise and hugs. You can't pay them enough, Penguin. It took like, I don't know, 20, 30 hours to do the audio reading the book and reading about your own dyslexia as you're talking, as you're saying, you can't read. Yeah.
Go away through 25 times, I'd say in a sentence. So, you know, it's just an interesting, you know, the writing process is difficult, but the opportunity to work with a writer, Mark Erickson, was how I was able to.
“And that's why this was a five-year process of writing this book and constantly editing”
and iterating and stress testing, and I was, we were joking backstage, writing about your family, when most of your families alive, that's not so easy. You better get it right, because you gotta go to Thanksgiving dinner and explain, you know, why the story is this, not the what you're all saying the story was, here's the real story. And so this was, yeah, it's an imprecise art writing, particularly a memoir.
So you didn't grow wealthy, but your family's close relationship with the Gettys put you
In proximity as you write about to obscene wealth.
How did that shape your view of wealth, extreme wealth, as you got into politics and sort of how you look at the world right now?
“Certainly shapes the way I look at the world right now.”
I'm with the single moms in terms of, you know, where that, where the fundamental decision points are in that respect. But it was really interesting, I, you know, my father grew up, what is his best best friend is, my dad described in his best best friend describes Gordon Gettys, they grew up together in high school, and became just best friends, and so much of their lives cross paths.
My dad, God, father of the Gettys and their trials, their triumphs, one of, you know, my dad's God's son was tragically kidnapped and a very famous kidnapping, where his ear was cut off, and my father, you know, marked so much of my early memories. In fact, a little cute story, Paul Jr., was his name, he came back from the kidnapping, his Godfather, my dad wanted to drive him and his two kids, we were visiting, down at Chestnut
Street in the Marina District, and there's a story that I tell my sister and I in the back of the car, relative to the young age, and my dad just pleaded with us. Whatever you do, don't talk about Paul's ear. Just whatever you do, and within a few minutes of Paul getting in the front seat, and we're driving along, my dad's driving, and I'm looking at my sister Hillary, I'm like, you know.
And my sister just couldn't help herself, she's staring, and she goes, "Paul, how many ears do you have?" I'm like, "Oh God," and luckily Paul had a great sense of humor, but a reading marks my first memories of the family, and again, some of the tragedy not just the tribe, and these are still a bit my days, some of my closest friends are members of that family, but
I never was a member of the family, and there's a scene in the book that's crazy, and
there's some wonderful stories in here, and that's really honestly, we're taking a look, some that are, you know, just rather ridiculous, including a trip to Spain that I took,
“and King Juan Carlos, one of those trips, and I'll never forget all these fans.”
Yeah, I was a kid as a high school. Quite a party. I'm thinking I'm all that, you know, young man and her, he's a little suit, you know, Pierce Brosnan from Remington's Steel, like actually literally, and just discovered hair gel, that's a whole other chapter in the book, forgive me, and I'm with Ann and Gordon's
four kids on this trip, and you know, relative to the same age, and the getty boys, you know, people are, you know, oh, it's wonderful to meet all these, which, which one are you?
Listen, I'll never forget which one are you, such pride, and I said, well, my name's Gavin,
I knew some, she goes, which one is that, I said, knew some, and she literally immediately turns, go away, young man, and it was such an imposter moment, like you knew your status, you knew you're standing, and so that was my relationship to that, you know, I walked into
“those doors, but I walked back home into my mom's arms, and I'll never forget all those”
trips once a year, we would go on these amazing trips with my father and the family, but I'd always come back home, and when my mom opened the doors, she was not on those trips, she would go, and very basically, well, come back, I hope you had a wonderful time, good night, and literally never talk about it again, and that was the reality, and so it, you know, it just, it shapes, you know, there was, it shapes the consciousness
of wealth, and but in different layers, in a different understanding, the proximity to it,
the relationship to it, but never absorbing it.
My father, when he passed away, gave us a second mortgage, and a lot of beautiful books, and a small town in Dutch flat, California, and Placer County, so even his relationship, he never, never created the abundance that so many people, I think, believe in terms of my life and the perception of remarkable privilege, plenty of privilege, plenty of doors that were open.
I'm not naive about that, but again, a very different reality than those many believe. Hot, Dave, America is brought to you by Helix, how are you preparing for spring-time
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for an entire year. So go to crooked.com/ESWDAN Speaking of extreme wealth, I mean, you knew a lot of the big luminaries in tech when they were broke, right? I mean, you write about Steve Jobs showing you the first iPhone that a party with, like,
we, wow, sir, they bring us there.
“I think you said Elon Musk gave you a ride into the set of current TV and the first”
first Tesla. So, I know I've heard you say, and I agree, that like tech writ large, there hasn't been as big of a metamorphosis as people might think, given where some of the CEOs are, but it does seem like there was an inflection point, maybe around COVID, maybe around Trump's election or reelection that radicalized change some of them, or made them speak out.
Elon Musk, obviously, being the number one example, do you have a theory or not? I actually interestingly, that's part of the book that we're not publishing, and I write about it in detail, particularly Elon's relationship to me and the state, and stories around how he got us ventilators.
She never did, and how that breakdown started current.
I started seeing there was libertarian tendencies, but we saw something that came out the other side very, very different, and I'll for a lot of people, not just some of these more well-known tech luminaries, and it's been hard to see in every way, shape, or form, because I write about those early days, you know, Kara Swisher, she wrote an amazing book in this space, and Kara, we're talking about it the other day in San Francisco, and comparing
notes to the old days, and it was, do no harm back then, there was a sense of idealism, and we were connecting the world, and San Francisco was in the center of that entire universe.
“I remember doing Uber Day, and Yelp Day, and Twitter Day, it was a big deal, and the CEOs”
would show up, and I got a t-shirt, and I was like the first guy on Twitter, and I was like, you could go back to my first tweet, I'm jogging in the Marina, and I didn't know what does this even mean? It's like, I didn't know. It's like, I didn't know.
It's like, I didn't know. It's like, I didn't know. It's like, I didn't know. It's like, I didn't know. It's like, I didn't know.
It's like, I didn't know. It's like, I didn't know. It's like, I didn't know. It's like, I didn't know. It's like, I didn't know.
And so it's just so radically different, and it feels so much darker, because it is today. And that darkness came on an inaugural, when I saw those guys up there, and it wasn't just those guys. You know, I joke about that patriotsight and the knee pads. The good news is we have new ones in, because the last, though, the new Trump signature
series knee pads, because the last ones sold out just like many of the tech CEOs, just like the lawyers, just like the universities, just like the law firms, just like so many members of the media have been selling out this country, I'm a public. And so, you know, we got to call that out, and we got to call them out. And that's why-- and that's why-- okay, yeah, anyway, all right, we're going to continue
The conversation.
Let's please let the governor talk. This is-- we're going to have a conversation up here about the book. That's what we're here for. So governor, continue, please.
“So, look, I think it goes to the zi guys to this moment, and the moment all of us are”
feeling, the anxiety, the stress, and I think so much without getting in the last few years. I mean, I think it's been the last 10 years since Trump came down the escalator.
And just, you know, the stacking of stress that's reflected in, you know, I signed the first
bill banning private prisons, including course civic in California. So that was legislation I advanced, I signed with respect, and I don't know that there's many. I take a back seat to know one, being a fierce opponent to what's happening on American streets.
It happened here first in the state of California. We saw 4,000 of our national guard troops here in Los Angeles, federalized, 700 active duty Marines were not sent overseas, they were sent to the second largest city in the United States of American. What did we say last June?
We said it was a preview of things to come. You saw exactly that happen in DC, you saw it happen in Chicago, you saw it happen in Minnesota. But you also saw the steel and the spines of Minnesota's that stood up in the retreat of Trump and Trumpism, which should give us pause to reflect on some optimism that we can defeat these guys.
These in retreat, and so I appreciate the advocacy, I appreciate people standing up. All of us have that responsibility, all of us have to roll to play. But we are on edge, communities are on edge. When we launched that Prop 50 campaign, little Tokyo, the Democracy Center, and people said, did you see the mass men out front?
I'm like, come on, they're on mass men. We literally went around the side. They were folks in masks, we didn't know who the hell they were, they weren't marked with any reference representation.
“And then this guy dressed up honestly, like he came off a set in Burbank in 1930's”
Garb, literally with a Himmler haircut, guy named Bovino, gray Bovino. And we said at the time that was a preview of things to come. So I appreciate the relationship to this moment, it's shaped, by so many moments we have and have had here in the state of California. But it's also marked with the moment of resolve and conviction.
And so I'm here in the relationship to my truth and my past. This is not a story about perfection. It's a story about perseverance, that perseverance of a mom who, you know, as a young child was thrown against a fireplace by her father, who put a gun to her head, that same grandfather of mine, her father, that spent years as a prisoner of war after the March and Corrigador.
And how he came back, a different person, ultimately took his life. How my mom took her life in a moment of her own despair, because of her own pain, because she was struggling for the second time with breast cancer and she just couldn't take it. And at time when it was illegal to do assisted suicide. And she found a doctor had the courage to give up, you know, he was risking his license.
And in the relationship to that moment, and in those moments you never get, again,
and how precious this all is. And so I hope we're all standing, including those that are speaking, I appreciate them. That context. We're all standing in this moment that we all have agency, and then we're not by standards in the world.
And I think that's my history, that my father's fierce advocate, he was an environmental warrior. I mean, we are first pet, this is hardly relatable. This is a weird pet. Yeah.
This is not on your bingo car.
Our first pet was an otter.
Yeah. What is the otter eat? Well, your fingers and toes, and where'd you go anything he sees in the house? This jumped out at me in the book. I literally wrote down, and you had a fucking pet otter growing up, question mark.
And you eventually gave it away, right?
“And you have to, we had to give it away, because the male man in my mom, that's fair.”
This was the first act of resistance in my home. My mom said it's either the otter or you dad, you know, my father. But I say that to make a point. By the way, his name was Potter, the otter, and it's good name or not.
It marks my father, and just as a fierce, you know, environmental warrior, an...
justice and, you know, racial justice, economic justice.
He was a SARS-River Democrat. He was a Bobby Kenney Democrat. He was an activist judge on the California Court of Appeals, and he marks my sense of idealism and daring. But that grit, that hard work and energy of my mom, and it's a combination of all those
things. And it's a combination. That is allowed me to get through a recall. It's a combination allows me to wake up every day and read another true social and, you know, try to sort of, you know, mark a relationship to this moment to do better to do more
and recognize that we have to do better and more of these people are suffering. People are struggling. And we all have to raise the bar of expectations and accountability and self-reflection. And so this is a book about self-reflection. It's a book about taking a deep breath, letting go, and just being yourself and putting
it out there. And I hope people, you've seen with me, you know, I'm willing to go out there on the end, and I'm putting a mirror up to Trump and Trump is, I don't know, if you check out my social media, you know, go to that Patriot Store and, you know, and I'm in the arena man, and I'm not perfect, and I know you want more and better.
I get it, and I'm just, I'm, I'm not trying to be any more goes to your question. Someone I'm not. And I just, I'm who I am, you know, you know, you don't have to like the book.
Well, I can't, I can't control the third thing.
I can, you know, I can only control what I can control, and I, it's, it's what I learned in this process.
“And, and that's why this, this why it's been a really remarkable gift to, to be able”
to tell my story, and to be able to dedicate it to those that will carry on this story. And that's my precious four kids, to Dutch Brooklyn, and to Hunter and Montana, into my extraordinary wife, who's also here with me tonight, as you know, from the introduction. And, and to make sure I don't screw that up, because at the end of the day, you know, we could talk about our resume values, no one gives a damn about those, it's your eulogy.
And it's that relationship to your truth, it's your relationship to others, and it's your relationship to the world we're trying to build, and, and how we can, you know, be fierce advocates for each other. Well, speaking of that world, I want to sort of talk about something, a tension in politics that I think about a lot that I think you have dealt with, against the best wishes of
your mother. You did go into politics, you become mayor of San Francisco, and when you're mayor, when you were mayor, you write about this, you went against the law, the California Constitution, the Democratic Party, most of the start with a law, but even against the Californians,
when you, um, allowed the first same sex marriage to take place in San Francisco.
Um, no one was applauding back then. I assure you. Well, yeah. I mean, that's the word.
“And I think, you know, reading it, you get the idea of sort of the politics and the, and sort”
of like the title wave of public opinion that you were up against them, and you said, and you wrote in the book, that the reason you did it is because simply it was the right thing to do, which is refreshing, uh, and you also, um, you also called the sort of go it slow, I think you said, admonition, the mother's milk of Democratic politics. Um, and there is a lot of go slow admonition out there.
But, you know, we also lived through elections, youth lived through many elections after this last election in 2024, we've all been going through this process, what went wrong, what went wrong. And, you know, and you recently said, you know, Democrats need to spend less time on, you know, identity politics and pronouns and more on tabletop issues.
And, um, but the, the question is, because you've now been on both sides of this, like, how do you square those two potentially contradictory ideas? Yeah, I don't know that they are, um, look, my wife is to stand up for ideals and strike out against injustice. And I don't come to that flippantly, I've really absorbed that, stand up for ideals, strike
out against injustice. And, if I'm on the fence on a bill, or a fence on a personal decision, or a professional, even business decision, that's where the default is.
“And that's reflected in, in marriage equality in 2004, remember, in 2004, we were just finishing”
up the debate around domestic partnerships. We weren't even in a separate, is equal, which was civil unions back then. And that's where, by the way, a lot of my family was, you know, old Irish Catholic family, the West side, you get my drift to San Francisco, the church, the Irish Catholic church
Where my dad was.
And I describe in the book the scene where he kind of had an intervention with his, my uncle
Brandon, his brother, and this fierce warrior for justice, a joke a chat, one of our state's countries, great lawyers, and could chat, they had an intervention the night before I was going to move forward with one marriage, there's the whole other story there. And they're like, why are you doing this? You just got elected, like, things are good, you're relatively young, you were the youngest
mayor in the 100 years, you know, you got plenty of time. You don't need to do this, no one asks you to do this, folks don't want you to do this. We don't want you to do this, and I really got into it, and they started really challenging me, and I couldn't answer in an afit of frustration. That's when I said, I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do.
And it wasn't, I wasn't trying to win an argument, I was exacerbated and I was like, it's the right thing.
“And I'll never forget Joe looked at my dad and my uncle and he said, boys, it's the right”
thing to do. And that was the end of it, next morning I married Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin. They've been together 47 years, and you know, 4,000, 4,000 and 35 other couples from 46 states and six countries got married and what we refer to in San Francisco, not as the summer of love, but the winter of love.
But they want a lot of love to your point, I was getting from the Democratic Party. We had the convention later that year and, you know, I won't name names, but folks like, you really should focus on homelessness in San Francisco. You don't have to go, you really don't have to, certainly you're not going to be speaking. See, you really don't have to show up.
And in the heart for it was a lot of the folks that showed up for me on election night who all universally gave me the same advice. See, advice we all get, young man, just do what you think is right.
“Those same folks were out there saying, because you think you're doing it.”
And there were folks that ultimately blame me, and this is the serious part of your question. And this is what I back to scrutinize, not sanitize, for the election outcome. Too much too soon too fast, you know, I can wax on about letters from Birmingham and Jail, which I did, which I reread, or maybe read for the first time. They meant something very different.
It's always the right time to do the right thing, things that.
And so fast forward, fast forward to the conversations we're all having today. And what we need to do to get back into power. And so it's a legitimate question. So you have the tactics, the electoral question, and then you have the policy making question. You know, how, and I just think the Democratic Party needs to be a little, and forgive
this word, ruthless about winning. We just have to be.
“And so that's the second part of your question.”
We're just trying to win arguments. Right after Donald Trump called Greg Abbott and said he was quote unquote entitled to five seats, because he knows he's going to get slapped in the midterm elections. He knows he's going to lose. So he's trying to rig the election.
That's one of 10 things he's doing. We could talk about the other nine is doing middecade redistricting. I imagine he thought, and frankly, I may have even thought, are we actually going to be maybe like to call you guys up see if you can help maybe draft an up-ed that we can place in the New York Times to try to win an argument, you know, guys, Donald, darn it, this is so wrong.
And you know, and we responded very differently, we said, look, we got to fight fire with fire. We're going to lose this country. We're going to lose our republic. And so I just think at the core, at the core, my humble belief, guys, is at the core of
our party problem, it's my humble belief, is strength. We've got to be stronger in our convictions, our courage. We've got to dominate the narrative again. We've got to win not just the argument, but we've got to address the attention deficit that we have.
There's an asymmetry. These guys have propaganda networks. It's proved as prime timeline of, I mean, my gosh, lower anger on is in business with Trump Jr., that's happening in the United States of America, I mean, it's proved to, you know, listening to the Hannity in these guys, and Murdock Inc., it's surround sound 24/7.
They're flooding the zone, Donald Trump understands this, so we can no longer be conventional
in our politics, it's ultimately what I'm arguing for.
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This was the first child. How did you pull that off? You know, this was the end of my life made to the book. I don't think Jen, it's that bad. But like I said, I was scrutinizing, not sanitizing.
This young man in hurry was out and about. Guys, mayors, everyone's Cisco, I was showing up at events and that was a pattern in a rupt. You know, psychology, we talk about scratching the record for those old enough to know what a record is.
You know, a pattern a rupt, where Jen's like, "Get your shit together."
“And there were a number of those pattern in a rupts and I write honestly about, "Look,”
one of the things that I imagine, you know, Jen's here, got to be careful, that she was wondering when she married me, like, what kind of husband are you going to be?" And then shortly after, truly, what kind of data are you going to be? Are you going to be your dad? She loved my father, my father was present in my life later on.
But she was also deeply aware he wasn't when we were growing up.
And that stress test came home in this beautiful bundle of joy, Montana, our first
form, Montana, Tessa, who wasn't there, my mom, Seval Newsom, and I didn't know until that moment. And you guys have had this right? You don't know. You can intellectualize it all day.
But I had something that I'm not sure my dad ever had. And I boyged dad, you missed it. I had this thing that went from here and it just burst in here. And it was like this baritone, this deep, like, oh, whoa, this light, this sort of, like, oh, my God, a truly understand love at a different level.
That said, I didn't necessarily love changing diapers. And Jen, who's a fierce advocate, is written in all kinds of documentaries. One called Fair Play, which is about partnership in the household. She got a reminder, you got to get your shit together, you got to step up your game.
And so that was marked for my first daughter's diapers.
I made up for it, sir, John, with all the other kids and continue to work harder to make
Up for equal time.
And in parenting, no equal, maybe a loser.
It's still working on that. What other thing that jumped out of me in the book is you talk about election night, you get elected governor, you wake up the next day, you walk out of the hotel room. And there's two California state patrolmen who then become your ubiquitous part of your life, your security detail, and you're then followed by staff everywhere you go.
And you lose your anonymity, you lose your freedom. I think you say freedom is the price you paid for the privilege of the job. I was wondering how that impacted you. And if you thought about how there are other jobs where that problem may be exacerbated, even the process of running is exponentially worse.
And if that bothers you, if that worries you, is that something you think about?
You can't go for a walk, you can't drive yourself in a car, you can't go to fucking drive
through. Look, everyone's rolling like whatever, oh, it's so tough for you. But that is, there is a thing, so in the book I described, just running for office and being able to run around on the streets and be able to go to coffee, clutches, and stores, and have some anonymity here, a little bit, you know, people angry, pissed off yelling here.
“And you should do this, that'll find, and then there's an election.”
And I literally went to bed, and then, truly, I woke up the next morning and didn't get a lot of sleep. And sort of blurry I'd walked out, and I was like, these two strangers right outside the door. I'm both, I'm like, oh, sorry, excuse me, and I walked down, and they started walking with me.
I'm like, who the hell are you guys?
And it literally was that moment that I have not had one without some semblance of that. You know, guys in the car, you're trying to make a phone call, hey, honey, how are you? I'm fine. You want to talk about it? I'm fine.
What's wrong? Nothing. You know, there's somebody right there, and sort of there's a relationship to anonymity, where, you know, there was, there was a year and a half where literally I wouldn't get on an airplane, not for me, but for everyone else on the plane, because I'm like, I'm sorry,
yeah, I'm sorry.
“I know, you know, people like, you know, is that the whole thing?”
And I get it, like back to the stacking of stress, back to the intention that we're all feeling, and so I, you know, allowed me to drive back and forth, LA more often, and spend more time in Central Valley, any governor in history, which was also important. But yeah, it is, you lose that, you lose the serendipity, and I remember his mayor, I lost a little bit, but not a lot.
So every week, a true story, like, and I wrote about it a little bit, every Friday, I would walk to work, and I'd walk through the tenderloin of San Francisco, and I didn't need to focus group. I didn't need to see where the polls were. You got the pulse of how people felt in that relationship to people's struggles and aspirations
and desperation, especially in that part of San Francisco, and I miss that, and I think our politics misses that. You want your elected officials, it's management by walking around. You want to walk through a skid row, but not with an entourage. You don't want to be that guy.
You want to be able to absorb and feel and understand how you're really doing, and I think you're right with the president, I mean, that's something, I can't even imagine, and you guys were up close to that, that disconnection to your truth, and that relationship to that truth, and how you absorb it and how you feel it differently, and then intellectualizing and poll testing it, how I think it does shape our politics, and how do you overcompensate
that? But the violence, right? Especially with your Trump, people shooting a Trump, you're the Charlie Kirkus assassination, I mean, the distance between politicians and the people who they're serving, or you know, trying to get votes from, is only getting greater and greater, and it's--
Donnie, this is like an actual real thing. And this is where, you know, I think about any future, I think, about relationship to my kids, you know, when I talk about that recall, you know, we had a homeschool my oldest daughter,
“and I will never forget, I helped her with her speech, that she gave in our living room.”
For eighth grade graduation, and I was so proud of her because she looked up the whole time. And I said, look above someone's head, because they'll see you thinking, and she was staring at me with a big smile, and she gave this beautiful speech, but she gave it just a gen and the kids, and her brothers and sisters, because the attacks of the school, you know, I hate your daddy, I hate this, and this man, and we had-- and I'm this again, I mean, we all did--
all had this, protesters for almost a year and a half, and now to your point about what 's happened, this is another level of stuff, and like trust me, you don't know, you know, infinitesimal amount of the stuff that comes in, and that's why the temperature definitely, I mean, we have to take that temperature down, and I do worry about it.
I mean, we talk about, you know, when you send troops to American city, not o...
there's sort of the lack of civility in this concern that we all have, are we crossing those
red lines, are we at war with one another, and forgive me because I know and forgot the long witness, but we've had this conversation when I went on your podcast because you were asking me about mine, and the one of you-- Yeah, listen there, please applaud, I've got one of this. The man has a podcast. That's the sound of the camera, but I was-- people felt I crossed the line because I was reaching across the aisle because there's making the case Bill Clinton
made for years and years, divorce is not an option. We're just, you know, it's not. Just because I don't want you to exist, doesn't mean you're not going to persist, and we just have to define the terms of the future, and so I started reaching out to people I vehemently disagreed with, and a lot of folks were angry saying, how do you platforming
“these people? Why are you talking to that son of a bitch? But it's honestly was in my relationship”
to this reality, man. We've got to take the temperature down. You know, we can punch Trump back, we can have the line, but same time, man. You know, we're all-- we don't want to be loved. We all need to be loved. We don't want to be protected, connected, respected, and we've just got to move. I appreciate the resistance frame, but I think all of us back to-- you know, we want to talk about renewal. We want to talk about the rebirth
of our civic-- you know, spirit, and civic pride, and our civic duty, and we're all waiting for that moment. That moment's going to come. I don't think it's here yet. You know, we're in this struggle. So many ways, the obstacle is the way Trump will define that, but all of us look forward to when we can turn the page on this moment, and we can re-estory some civility and grace. So the epilogue of the book, you write a lot about your relationship
with Trump, your interactions with Trump. We could talk about it forever. We will not do
“that the only one to talk about my tour with Trump and the bedroom-- Well, that's what”
I-- So the thing-- the thing that Tommy and I really want to know is to tell us more about the reaction on Jared Kushner's face when Donald Trump said in front of him and you that he wished Ivanka had married Tom Brady instead. Yeah. It seems to be mean. Was he crying? It's a weird thing to say to your son. I was crying for Jared. I thought, I mean, how could
someone it was so dehumanizing in front of his own son-in-law? Say, and it wasn't his first choice.
And if Trump can do that to his son-in-law in Marine One in front of strangers, that sums him up, man. That sums him up, and it's an interesting-- it's a fun little story where Trump talks about how Ivanka didn't call Tom Brady back. And she's like, "Why are you-- what the hell? Why are you calling Tom Brady back? It's Tom Brady." And she goes, "It's a little dad. I'm in love." And Trump is telling the story and he goes,
"Well, who are you in love with?" With Jared. And he goes, "You mean the guy whose father was in jail?" He says it in front of Jared. Right there. Say, "Can you believe?" And he like hits me on the legs. And can you believe Tom Brady? She didn't do Tom Brady. Like there's Jared's right there. Damn. That is so weird. Damn. Oh, we're so weird. It's really-- Oh, it's a story-buy joy, though. It's petty, but-- Yeah, I know Jared sucks, but--
No one deserves that. Also, Tom Brady's everybody's first choice if we're being honest with you. It's a good idea. I think a number of Ivanka. Let me talk about it. Governor, you've been so generous with your time, everyone. The book is "Young Man in a Hurry." It is, it is, honestly, it's a really good book. I appreciate it. It's a really good book. Thank you, guys. Thank you for being here. Thank you for reading the book. Thank you, John.
I mean, thank you guys all for being here. I appreciate you. Thank you, guys. Very, very much. That's our show. Thank you to Gavin Newsman for joining us. One little housekeeping note before we go. Love it or leave it is coming to DC April 23 at the Lincoln Theatre.
It's Love It's Traditional Pre-White House Correspondence Dinner Show, and it's always a ton of fun.
Maybe even more so this year, since Trump will actually be attending the Correspondence Dinner itself. Love it will be announcing some big guest soon, and if you can't make it to the DC show, Love it or leave it is live in LA every Thursday night. Take it for DC in LA or on sale now at Cricket.com/events. Love it, Tommy and I will be back on Tuesday.
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Pots of America is a cricket media production. Our producer is Saul Rubin.
“Our associate producer is Faris Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer.”
Rechurnland is our executive editor. Adrian Hill is our head of News and Politics.
The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio
support from Kyle Segelin and Charlotte Landis. Matt DeGroat is our head of production.
“Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team,”
Elijah Cone, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kelman, Carole Pelaviv, David Tolz and Ryan Young. Our production staff is probably unionized with the writer's Guild of America at East. If you guys like Pots of America, please consider subscribing to our friends at the pod program.
“So friends of the pod get lots of stuff. You get more Pots of America that includes our new show,”
which is called Pots of America, only friends. We're gonna get to make it. We're Dan gets full frontal nudity, but mostly it's a bi-weekly subscription exclusive podcast that
is basically Pots of America, but behind a paywall. So it's a little bit looser and more fun.
And it's love it and Fabro and me and Fife are in another cricket host. We're going to deeper on the news and cover more stories. We also get open tabs, which is a weekly behind the season newsletter from the show. Plus you get ad free episode through your favorite cricket podcast and all kinds of other stuff. Dan will come to your house and clean it once every morning. Dan is very busy, close, only. But along with just getting great content,
becoming a friend of the pod, joining our subscription community, is the number one thing you can do to help us grow to help independent progressive media. So if you're ever thought about doing it, if you ever wanted more Pots of America, consider going to cricket.com/friends and becoming a friend of the pod.
