Trump Loses the Gerrymander War

Or big fans of transparency here especially when it comes to the fine print that usually only benefits the big guys.

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That's half off at SimplySafe.com/cricket. There's no safe, like SimplySafe. Well, I'm going to put it in America, I'm John Favreum. I'm Dan Fyfer. Look at us.

We're here in DC. That's a guest. Back where it all started. Beautiful city. Beautiful city.

They haven't started work on the RCHF.

No, they didn't. Did you check out the bomb room? I was just when we were landing. I was excited to see that the monument was still standing. The monument.

Because I was, I didn't know. That's good. Yeah, the Lincoln Memorial painted Naga Red. Yeah, right. So everything looks normal so far.

“All right, on today's show, we're going to talk about the latest developments in our”

new forever war and why it could take six more months to open the Strait of Hormuz even after the war ends. We'll also cover Democrats Bigwin and Virginia in the state of the redistricting wars, which Republicans are starting to regret. Uh, we'll check in on our boy Cash Patel who can't quite shake the J Edgar Booser

allegations. Just a top notch, top 10 all-time positive market title. I was saying, I don't know who came up with it. They're all on the line. So someone knows, but we're not with them.

Love it saying it was him. It's definitely was not love it. Uh, so that's what I care about. And, um, and why the biggest national security threat that we face may be sugar daddy's. One of our friend Mark Leabovich of the Atlantic joins us here in studio to talk about

the California governor's race in this town's Super Bowl, the White House Correspondence Dinner. This weekend. Why were here? We couldn't stay away.

Um, and with Trump and attendance for the first time as president and the first time since

2011. What happened in 2011? We're not going to get into that again. If you're listening to this show and you don't know the story of 2011, then you have not paid attention.

Mark Econ's coming back, Dan, right here in the city. Washington DC, Washington DC, November 5th through 7th, it's going to be right after the midterms. Is it to be held in the bottom? Uh, maybe.

Maybe. Yeah, we're scoping it out if it's done by then. We're going to have more panels, more speakers, uh, more opportunities to connect with people, uh, who care about politics and, uh, plus there's going to be live tapings of love it or leave it.

Pads of America and strict scrutiny. So head to crookedcon.com, sign up for updates, including ticket release dates, line up announcements and a lot more. Also, huge news for campaigns, candidates and anyone who wants to be super smart about politics, take it away.

Yes, we Dan. Thank you, John. So for years, we've heard from candidates, staffers, organizers that they are forced to turn to Pads of America for political strategy and messaging guidance, because they don't, they can't afford a pollster, a consultant, they're not going to support for the national party.

And like, obviously, it's very flattering that they listen to us for advice, but it also, it's like, it's a pretty shameful indictment of how the whole system works. The fact that, that the people who need the most help get the least help, the fact that the best block consultants of like best pollsters only work for the candidates who have the most money, who would tend to be the kind of seem to the least help.

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There's a product I'm very excited about. Is there a co-host discount? No, we just wonder, kind of interesting, maybe I can comp you, all co-hosts will be comps. That's exciting, everyone check it out, get it, you guys have weekly strategy memos from

Dan. Wow, I mean, that's pretty great. It's a pretty exciting product, Dan, I'm really excited you're doing this, even we've been talking about this for a while, so I'm glad you got it off the ground. Messageboxpro.com.

You can also go to the notorious, yes, we, Crooked.com slash, yes, we Dan, that's another option, but that's also to donate to your future races. No, no, no, no, no, all right, let's get to the news, and what seems to be a stalemate in a war that's been going on for seven weeks and counting, quick reminder, it's now

been 43 days since Trump first declared victory in Iran, now we are on week seven and

counting, so we're recording this mid afternoon east coast time on Thursday, a little earlier than usual, and Trump is about to do an event in the Oval Office, where he may take questions, our producers are monitoring the situation, read your skin, give us a wave, big wave, yes, there's a row of sweet green bullet us, it's going to be big news, though, big news.

All right, but for now, Trump extended the ceasefire on Tuesday, didn't put a new deadline on it, and it's unclear if we still have a ceasefire because then Iran sees two ships in the straightaway, and the US has seen a couple of tankers, including on Thursday, a tanker of Iranian oil, and there's still no word on whether there will be another round of negotiations, JD Vance, just sitting at the airport waiting to get the call so we can jump

on a plane.

Trump is still posting through it, this is all just today, claiming that quote, "We have

total control of the straight," which we obviously don't, as evidenced in part by his next post, that he's ordering the Navy to quote, "shoot and kill any boat laying minds there," which he claims is already happening, but wants it to continue at a quote, tripled up level, that's technical speak, tripled up level. He also shared two posts from Warmonger, Mark Tason, yeah, my predecessor at the White

House, that suggested he should kill the Iranians who don't want to deal, so he said there's a couple of factions, there's the one-to-deal faction, and the don't want to deal faction, and Tason said he should kill all the Iranians who don't want to deal. But also, the Trump doesn't need a deal. So there's a few problems there.

Meanwhile, this is all after the Pentagon reportedly told Congress, in a classified briefing, this is from the Washington Post, that it could take six months to clear the straight from the date the war ends. So at the war ends tomorrow, we're looking at six months until the straight is open again, and global energy supplies go back to normal, and the price of gas comes down, and oil,

and all the supply shock, and all the other problems that have befallen the global economy because of this. So, looks like the administration is trying to spin the ceasefire extension as a temporary act of mercy, they're saying on background three to five days to quote, "allow the Iranians to get their shit together."

This is what they told Axios and Trump keeps threatening that huge strikes will resume.

“How eager do you think he actually is to restart this war?”

Well, he's given, I think he is now five deadlines with a lot of deadlines. And every single one of them, he's extended the deadline without getting a single thing he wanted. So I'm getting the sense that he does not want to restart this war, but he really wants the straight to be open, and the war to be over, and it to be seen as an unalloyed American

victory. But all of this is an impossible task. One tough circle to square. Yes, it is an impossible circle to square, so we are stuck in this place, and every day that we're still in this domain, because really still made is not a term you want to

do used with a war in the Middle East, you know, in their before. Every day that these still make continues makes it worse for the U.S. and the global economy. The oil shock gets worse, the shortage gets worse.

“I think, you know, if you read what people like experts in the oil industry say is that”

the markets, the political conversation is dramatically underestimating how bad this is and what the medium term counts when it's sort of like Europe has headed towards a potential jet fuel shortage. Yeah, tons of canceled like 20,000 short flights already. It's really bad.

It's very, very bad with very, very real implications for people's daily lives, not just gas prices, but every single part of their life, the strength of the economy, overall inflation, the cost of food, and from the, as you, from the day you end the war, you have six months

this.

“And we have no idea when that day, that day one will be in per usual, Trump is making”

his problems worse, because he has made it clear to the Iranians and the world that

he's horny for a deal, which the Iranians know, which is why they're going to make it harder for him to get a good deal, that he can feel confident about, which he also needs to avoid seeming weak because he can't seem weak. So it's just, and you can tell that like the Iranians are sort of showing a little more confidence in the way they're posting and talking about this and also they're like the,

clear like the IRGC is in charge and the hardliners and along the New York Times piece today about the new Iatola and he is apparently still very injured and very ill, but like it's like the way they describe how Iran's being governed right now is that like it's a board of directors and the new Iatola is the chairman of the board, but all the generals and all the IRGC people have almost just as much of a say or certainly more of a say than they did

when his father was in charge.

“So that's probably not good for world peace or getting a deal.”

Yeah, it's just there are such different incentives structures here, all the IRGC cares about is staying in power and they have, they can, they can wait it up because they are a repressive awful regime, they don't care how much pain they inflict on their own people and it's not like they have elections coming up. Yeah, there is, there is no one sitting at IRGC headquarters worry about the generic ballot right now,

right? And they know the Donald Trump just wants out both because he's worried about the politics and because he has no attention span. And it's just not clear what he could do to change the calculus here because all he can do is bomb more things. What we all have to hope is that they end up doing a deal that's probably better for the Iranians

and we would have hoped and Trump pretends that it's some great deal and tries to take credit for it, but at least it ends the war. That to me is now the best possible outcome because there is no outcome where we get a great deal. No, I mean, the fundamental challenge is here is anyone dumb enough to start this war is too dumb to get out of it. Yeah, yeah, that's about where we are right now. You see that Pete Heggseth fired the Secretary of the

Navy, which is an interesting thing to do here in the middle of the biggest naval blockade operation in decades, another heroic background quote to Axios quote, he didn't understand he wasn't the boss. His job is to follow orders given, not follow the orders he think should be given. The only wars that Pete Heggseth can win are bureaucratic ones. Doesn't seem great that they're losing the Secretary of the Navy. It seems like this guy went

to because he was having trouble with Heggseth and fighting with Heggseth and part of it was based on Heggseth wants to eliminate the woke army, the DEI agenda and so he was trying to make sure he looked at every application for a possible job and makes and scrub social media to make sure there were no signs of woke or DEI anywhere in the resume or in the social media. So it doesn't seem like that's a good thing. Since there's a lot of people now,

I feel like at upper levels of the Pentagon who have been let go again in the middle of a war. Yeah, we keep getting rid of people who know what they're doing or placing them with people who don't. Senate Democrats brought up a war powers vote on Wednesday. Republicans voted it down now for the fifth time this year. What else can or should Democrats be doing? It seems like they're just going to keep bringing these

votes up and it seems like each time they are getting like more Republicans who are at least considering voting for the war powers resolution. And the time limits up in terms of even if you don't have even if you don't think that the war powers resolution does anything. The president can only be at war for a certain number of days and that's the time limits coming up there and so they're

now they're trying to figure out a way to get around that. Yeah, I'm always torn on the war

powers resolution thing as a tactic here because one thing we've known for some of the polling we've seen is that people are very, very against this war. They don't understand why we're in it. They hate the cost of it. They think it's stupid. The least effective argument is that is the process one. Yeah, but morally constitutionally from a government perspective, the process one is

“very important. That is a case that should be made. And even if we were to pass it, Trump”

we're not going to pass with a beautiful majority. So it's sort of is what it is. And so we have to think about using these votes to put as many Republicans on the record as four Trump's illegal war as possible. I have noticed that all the talk about the supplemental war funding has kind of died down. Remember it was going to be $200 billion in then someone said maybe it's

closer to 100 billion that the White House is going to ask for, but I don't see that legislation

getting fast tracked anytime soon into you. Well, I just don't know what the immediate urgency is. Like what we'll push this is, it's very, very, when the Pentagon wants something, the Pentagon

Trump and Russ Vot has made a mockery of all sort of budgeting laws, so they could be robbing

from all sorts of places to avoid this, but at some point they're going to need that money,

“and they're going to have to go to Congress for it. And then that becomes the most important,”

most politically salient vote people will take on this war. I would bet their calculation is he's trying to get a deal. He's trying to get us out of this. Let's just try to wait to ask for the funding until the war is over. And then we can say it has nothing to do with the war. The war is over. This is just to refill our munitions, which are running low. And now there's reporting from Alex Ward and Wall Street Journal that munitions are so low that if we ever had to go to

more with, say, China that we wouldn't be able to have enough munitions. Yeah, I mean, the risk

to that strategy is the later you wait, the closer you put it to the election. Right, we're in

late April now. Congress is going to take like the last thing, the worst possible scenario for Republicans is they have to deal with this in September or right before the election. Yeah, that's gas prices are like over $5 a gallon at that point.

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and enter promo code Crooked that's NutriFull.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com, promo code Crooked. Alright, let's talk about the great news of the week. Democrats won the Virginia referendum to redraw the state's congressional maps which will likely net Dems and other four seats in the commonwealth and hold 10 of the 11 congressional seats there. It is now going to be a 10-1 split in Virginia, Democrats and Republicans. Trump said the election was rigged obviously, called on the

circuit judge in Virginia blocked the results on Wednesday, which was expected. This judge has had blocked the referendum earlier, and attorney general J. Jones vowed to appeal now Virginia Supreme Court will decide Republicans and right-wing media joined Trump in bitching about the results. And Democrats aren't feeling too guilty. Here's Jesse Waters, Jessica Tarlove and AOC. You guys have been jerrymandering for quite some time. You're very good at it. Trump tried his hand at it.

Did it in Texas? Got some good results in it. You guys have just been running the table. Can I stop? Can you slow down? No. All gas, no breaks.

First of all, what do you think about the Republican complaining? If you could expand on

“"Wang, wang, wang, wang, wang." Because I saw it from like a lot of Republican strategists. Who I think, no better?”

Many of them live in Virginia as media Republican strategists and Democrats just do and Northern Virginia. But they are very upset. And when you say, "Well, Texas started," they're like, "Well, no Democrats started at first before Texas and other cycles and in New York, they did it in 2020." And all this fucking bullshit. Okay. So, what is it that Republicans love to say? Fuck around and find out. Because that's exactly what happened here. But let's just--

That's where the team Jeffrey said. Did he say that? And he actually said, "Fuck." Did he? Yeah. That's very authentic. Good for him. Very authentic.

Honestly good for it. We should, the team Jeffrey.

Hey, the team Jeffrey. Yeah, it's a great question. Because he absolutely, Republican started this redistricting war. He Democrats could have crawled into the feet of position. Gavin Newsam stepped up. He came Jeffrey's step up. He came Jeffrey's step up. He came Jeffrey's and he did work. He went to these states, went to these legislators, pushed people like it. It was a lot of behind the scenes where he did work. Virginia would not have happened without

a team Jeffrey's foreshore. So he gets a ton of credit here. But let's just be clear about this. In 2021, there was a vote to ban Jerry Mandarin. Every single Democrat voted for it. Every single Republican voted against it. One party supports a national ban on

“Germany because the only way to do this is a national ban. One party supports this”

Democrats. Well, party posts is it's the Republicans. But they don't like here as they started a dumb fight and they lost it. Yeah, I just think we should be consistent in the positions we hold on reform that sort of reforms corruption and rigged system and gives people more of a voice. And like, yeah, we're for ending Jerry Mandarin everywhere. And if their Republicans don't like the bill from 2021, that would end partisan Jerry Mandarin for whatever reason because some

of them have some problems with the way it's then tell us what you want to give us. Give us a bill that would and then we can negotiate on it. But I feel the same thing with money in politics and citizens united and oh, Democrats are spending money too. No, we want our overturned citizens united. We want to get rid of money in politics. Do you also then let's do it? Like, I think that there should be term limits and maybe age limits for members of Congress and Supreme Court justices.

Great. Let's do it. I think we should get rid of the filibuster. And everyone's like, oh, well, now the Republicans would be pissed if the filibuster wasn't there. Yeah, I would be annoyed that they could maybe it could pass a few more things. But like, I believe the filibuster is bad. And so I believe that it is bad, no matter what. But like, I just think that maybe Republicans could be consistent for once on the reforms they support and when they support them.

Yeah, I mean, there's there's two things. Or one, there's consistent. The other one is whether Democrats should be required to unilaterally disarm when certain when things remain legal. Information. And it's of course not. Yes. And I think that is an absurd fucking position.

I do think in a different era and maybe even the first Trump era, Democrats would not have

responded as aggressively to this because we do believe you're mentoring as wrong. We would have thought that not everyone. I don't think you and I would have thought that I think a lot of many in the party would have thought that it is dirty pool. Two wrongs don't make a right. We should not do it. And the fact that we did certain that Democrats have learned a lesson finally of the Trump era,

“which is you, if you were going to take on fascism, you have to be going to fight fire with fire.”

You have to use. Everything Democrats are doing is legal. It is a maximum use of a allowable political power. The way to fix unfair rules is to fix the rules, not just sit there and let your ass get beat. Yeah. So last year Abigail Spanberger in Virginia beat her opponent by 15 points. The referendum passed by three. It's a 12 point swing. Why do you think it was so close? A couple of reasons here. One. So the most obvious comparison point is the California

California is more democratic than Virginia, but it's not. It's not 10 times more democratic

“than right. And if it passed by 30 points isn't it like a deep plus 20 state, usually?”

Yeah, and Kamal Harris won Virginia by 5.8 points. But some reasons why it was closer. One, this was a very Republican turnout was quite good. It was actually as the big 2021 levels. The movie lost. Yeah, when Cleniacan was elected, the Republicans had mounted very good campaign here. They actually used Barack Obama in the Rads. Both sides used Obama in the Rads. The no side used Obama footage of Obama talking about what you're maintaining was bad in the

Rads, and then the yes side used more recent footage from Obama saying passed this amendment.

It's smarter than no said. And they spent real money, less money than the yes side.

The the other issue here that made it closer was independence. So independence in the last Washington Post Bowl, there was a couple of weeks before the election had independence at plus 10 on the no side, which is a huge swing from Cleniacan who won them by more than 20 points in 2025. And that kind of makes sense because if you're an independent who is of set with Trump, maybe you go to for young kin in 2021,

maybe you go to for member in 2025, probably Trump in 2024, and you're mad at Trump. You see this a process oriented anti-projury mandarin amendment is something that you can

still vote against. Yeah, and I don't know how the vote broke down in any of the individual

districts, but I also think it is very understandable if you're an independent or if you're a public and you're deciding whether to come on voter and auto vote. Like if you're in a district that's going to get jerrymandered and so you no longer really have a have a say and you're a member of Congress or you're not going to ever get a Republican, I can see what you vote against it. Yeah, it's like jerrymandering in general is bad and they shouldn't have sent us down this path.

And the interesting interesting thing, the one group that blew the doors off and it's probably why Democrats won was Asian American voters and black Americans too. I saw both Asian and the Asian vote in the black vote were very quite high. Yeah, because again, especially black voters like know what it is to be jerrymandered. Yeah, let's talk about what the redistricting war Trump started with Texas, Hethraught. When you add up all the states now

that have redrawn their maps, Democrats are as of this moment, plus one in the overall count, the only state left is Florida where the legislature has a special session scheduled for next week, but it's actually unclear if the Santa's changing the maps will net Republicans any additional seats and some in the party are already feeling what Axiose described as quote, buyers were more stupid. It's a bummer, huh? When asked if the redistricting effort was worth it, the chair of the

NRCC whose job it is to keep Republicans house majority told Axiose quote, "It's not for me to say because really it wasn't my decision." And California independent Kevin Kylie, who was a Republican and now caucuses with the Republican still told Axiose quote, "I wish none of this had

“happened." You haven't got any losses yet? Yeah, exactly. Did we win redistricting?”

Yes, I mean, yes, we won redistricting. You know, when Florida is done, it could come out that we are a seat or two behind. Florida is interesting because DeSantis could redraw the maps. One, just worth noting that partisan gerrymandering in Florida is illegal. According to the constitution, so he's going to do so. That seems like a hurdle. It is a hurdle. The floor, I would say the legal reason of the Florida Supreme Court is now liable. And so there's some thought that they're

going to find a way to twist the illegal pretzel enough to get it done. But even if you draw it. Right? So DeSantis is under pressure to do what Newsom did. He's DeSantis wants to run for president in 2028. Potentially, this is his chance to show himself to be an important Republican player. But if he drew experts who look at this thing, that anything more than adding to Republican seats puts them at real risk of what you call a dummy mandor, which is where you draw the

districts in a way that in a bad year, you'll lose a bunch of seats. So even if DeSantis were to do it,

“he's going to get two seats at max. So you end up minus one for the whole thing. And what I think”

in the sense that we won, I'm not sure anyone's going to do this again in mid-year. Right? Obviously, we're going to have to do this again after the 2030 census across in every state. But I think

And you're not going to get that much as I can be worth the juice. We'll be worth the squeeze.

“I had a long time, Florida Republican consultant talking to Politico. He ran the numbers and”

that person ran the numbers and concluded the new map couldn't at Republican zero seats for the

reasons you talked about. So because right now they hold a 20 to eight edge. And because basically,

there's nowhere left to cram Democrats without exposing safe Republicans to a comment. So it is it's going to be really hard even if the Supreme Court doesn't. Even if the Supreme Court allows it. The other thing that we've been waiting for is this Supreme Court case that could upend the map in the voting rights act. And basically say that all majority minority districts can be redrawn, which would cost Democrats a bunch of seats. But I do think

as of now, it's like too late. It's too late for it to matter in 2026, partly, apparently, because two southern states, which is where it would heavily affect Southern states more than anyone, two southern states have already held primaries. And candidate filing deadlines have passed in every state but Florida. So even if the Supreme Court says that matters for this election, like they just can't. It would be mass chaos if they were to try to make it in place.

And just like for the state's authorities help primaries, you can't do anything. I guess you can, I guess the legislature could go try to change a filing deadline by past it.

Yeah, but they'd have to pass new laws to basically do emergency elections to do it.

So you have new filing deadlines. People have to get signatures for those petitions. Then you'd have to have a primary, then the general election of ever seems,

“and you have to draw the districts at some point in time. So seems fine for 2026.”

It is a problem, and it seems like the decision will be bad. But a problem for another day. So the redrawed that majority while we have it. Yeah. For the next two years, the redistricting fiasco only adds to the Republicans midterm woes, Trump and the party continue to hit new laws in polling, both the AP and ARG had Trump's approval at 33% and 32% respectively. So that's fun. Sarah Longwell says that's the bush line right there.

Could political report released a new poll on Thursday finding that in just in swing districts that Trump won in 2024 by an average of two points, Democrats now hold a six point advantage on the generic congressional ballot. So that's pretty big. And in a new Fox poll, voters gave

Democrats the edge of Republicans on inflation in the economy for the first time since 2010.

I think that's a six point spread in the generic ballot as well. How much hopeiam are you

“huffing these days? I'm not really. I hopeiam huffer for say. I know that's why I'm asking. But I think”

that the political environment looks about as good as we ever possibly could have hoped for Democrats right now. And the poll did everyone should really be paying attention to is the political report poll of 36, the 36 districts that will decide the house of the toss up lean Republican lean Democratic districts. And that was the one that was the. Yeah, that's 6 point 36. And in that one, Democrats have big double-digit advantages on lowering prices. And on the

economy, which is something that is changed, Trump's unpopular Republican bases divided. Like we had the opportunity before us. As we get, we'll get to this conversation. There are some hurdles to maximizing that opportunity. But it like this has the potential to be a 1994, 2006, 2018, style election for Democrats, where is a massive, rebuke to the president and come a president and the party in his party. And we've been talking about the house, but headline of Nate

Cohen's newsletter earlier this week was why a Democratic Senate once unthinkable is now a real possibility. What did you make of Nate's reasoning? He's not someone who just, no, he is not a Hopium Huffer. Lies off the handle. Just starts making it. We've made this case, I made this case on Poco's turmoil times. And we talked a little bit here. But it, like once again, as we've said, it is a good candidate. It's very, very good candidates in three of those four. The poor state of

Iowa, which has the president's primary answer. You have Mary Pultoba in Alaska, top notch candidate, Sherrod Brown in Ohio, top notch candidate, James Deloreco, in Texas, top notch candidate. And there's some view in the recovery group or in the recovery group or in the North Carolina. I mean, then Nate, brother, it's not one of the four. Nate's not a race anymore. So I talked about this podcast, so you know, it's just, it's an under the radar race. The Democrats are overperforming in special

elections by a margin that would deliver, it puts all of those states in play, right? We got to win those, we need plus 10 plus 11 environment to win those states. And we're seeing, that's the sort of

candidates who are going to perform better than the generic Democrat. Yeah, the paragraph in Nate's piece

“that really stuck out to me was a so much Sherrod and Mary Pultoba says in Ohio, Mr. Brown lost by”

3.6 points in 2024. Ms. Pultoba lost by around 2 points in Alaska. Today, the Democrats are fearing about 8 points better on the generic congressional ballot than they did in the 2024 combined U.S. congressional popular vote or put another way, Mr. Brown and Ms. Pultoba probably would have won reelection in 2024 if those contests had been held in this political environment. So that's pretty big. Eshelon did a set of polls in the Senate states, Eshelon really good pollster run by

Republicans, Patrick Ofini and Kristin Soltis Anderson. They have us off up 51, 44 in Georgia. In Maine, they have platinum up on Collins, 51, 45. They have mills up by narrower 48, 46. That's that mean Senate risk? Yeah, I'm just holding my tongue on that. In Iowa, they have Zach Walls a 2 point lead and Josh Turck a 1 point lead. So they do have a tiny lead inside the margin in Iowa and then the only tough one there is in Ohio. They have Sherrod down 51, 45. There's been

a few Ohio polls that have been kind of troubling lately, but we'll see. So speaking of Patrick Ofini, who literally wrote the book on the so-called realignment that delivered Trump to the White House in 24, he tweeted a few days before the Virginia election that if the referendum passed by around a 5 point margin, of course, passed by three, it meant Republicans quote, "have some fight in them" and can quote, "hold down dem seat gains in the house and keep the Senate."

What did you make this case? It's not crazy. So like, his original point here is Democrats tout every time. We overperform and so he's going to grow on top the one time we

“underperform. So, you know, sporting, I guess. What I think is, and I want to stipulate that a process”

oriented ballot measure is very different than a candidate race where they candidate. It's hard to hold the no-on redistricting measure accountable for why you're angry at Trump. Yeah. And just to your point about ballot measures, let us not forget all the abortion ballot measures in deep red states that made it succeeded, that maybe we were going to win this. Or minimum wage balance. And they did not. The 25 point congressional performance in Georgia

from three weeks ago, or whatever it was, is a better indicator than this. Also, it is certainly not evidence of an improving political environment, Trump's actually doing worse than he was before. The generic ballot is getting bigger and not smaller. And so, I think it's a bit of a vacuum. And what I think is true is that what Republicans effectively did here is a nationalized that collection. And when you nationalize an election, that gives them the chance to turn out more of

their voters. Because we are winning both through massive Democratic turnout, persuasion and diminished Republican turnout. They're not going to turn, they're not going to drive that out turnout. They're probably not going to do a lot of persuasion, but the one thing they can do is drive their turnout up. And that is a difference between us winning a bunch of Trump plus 12 seats, and that's not when Trump plus 12 seats.

Yeah. And the other point I found compelling about Patrick's argument is he basically said,

all these special elections that we've had so far, Republicans really haven't been able to sort of up the stakes and make voters feel like there's a lot of stake in the selection. And in Virginia, they were able to do that because they made it seem like you could lose your voice and your district forever. And so, once you get closer to the actual midterms and everything's nationalized, as you said, and the stakes are higher, and they're spending, you

know, all the money they have, which we're about to talk about, then you could get a closer environment than you've had in some of these neutral elections. Which I do think is, yeah, it's possible. The Republicans are going to get their shit together and some I should

perform. That is going to happen. It always does. The, they're not going to get Trump level

turnout. They're not going to get the turnout they want, but they're going to get better turnout than they've been getting. And these some of these special elections. And that is going to hold, that is not enough to save the house. It may be enough to save the Senate, but it's not enough to save the house, but it could hold down the margins in between Democrats picking up 15 seats in 25 seats.

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might not think you do, but you do. It always helps to talk to someone even if you feel like you're

doing great. You go talk to someone you realize, "Oh, now I feel even better." Where therapy boys, we can vote for that right here. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/psa that's better. H-E-L-P dot com slash e-s-a. The New York Times reported this week that Republican Party political committees and allied groups currently have a massive $600 million financial advantage over the Democrats in their

political committees and allied groups. The DNC's total cash is actually negative 4.5 million,

“which seems less than ideal. What do you make of the overall disparity there?”

I would say one of the funniest things I've read in a long time is there was a political reporter was passing along. I was in a touch of correct. I think it was passing along some of the spin from Democrats and one of the spin from some of the Democrats about this was, "Well, we had all this money in 2024 and we lost anyway. So let's try running it back with no money." I'm sorry, it's so good now. In 2024, we had a candidate and we lost.

Let's try no candidate. It's good thinking. Here's what I'd say. It is bad when the DNC

has negative money. Okay, that is bad. It is not as consequential as I think people on the internet think. The DNC is not into million involved in funding house races or Senate races. That is the detribal C in the DSCC. They have less money than Republican counterparts, but that's a much narrower gap. And then we're probably through truly crushing us is in super PAC and non-profit money and dark money. And that's not even counting all of the

$100 million in the AI and cryptocurrency impacts, which are mostly going to help Republicans. But where Democrats are crushing us are candidates are raising a lot more money than their candidates. And here's why that matters because every dollar in political fundraising is not equal. By law, it's television stations have to sell TV ads to campaigns run by candidates. That's the actual candidates and what is called the lowest unit rate. They have to do that.

It's what the going rate is and what the charge of candidate. They halved the living shit out of super PACs. Super PACs in the last 60 days in front of election are paying two, three, four times the amount of the campaign. So let's take North Carolina,

right? We're a group race race that gets billion dollars. Let's say the Republicans plus

Michael Wattley's Republican nominee have $80 million. That's equivalent to $20 or $30 million of Democrats money. And so like it is bad, we should have more money. It is bad that we are being outraged like this, but give money to campaigns because those dollars go further. So if you can do by going to votes in America.com and what's the best place to give you much to send your money. Don't want to be wasted in any of it. Seems like Trump is responding

to the grim political outlook with his tried and true method of firing people. So he's reportedly considering forcing out more members of his cabinet. Lori Chavez, Duremberg, Labor Secretary, resigned this week in scandal, following Christine Nome and Pam Bondi. There's some speculation that Howard and I almost just said not like you can say that. Yeah, right. It's just it's natural now. What's going to suit you? You know, I guess maybe. Maybe not like could be next or possibly cash

Oh, I saw it tells the Gabbard. Yeah. Cash is having trouble rebutting the Atlantic story that did lead to his new nickname. Jay Edgar Pouser. Here's Patel in his boss acting AG Todd Blanch responding to questions about the Atlantic story at a DOJ press conference on Tuesday. Let's play the clip. Can you say to Senator Louise that you have not been intoxicated

or absent during your tenure as FBI director? I can say unequivocally that I never listen to

the fake news mafia. I'm like an everyday American who loves his country, loves this for to hockey, and champions my friends when they raise a gold medal and invite me into Celebrate. I've never been intoxicated on the job. Obviously you've read the Atlantic article that's now a subject of defamation lawsuit. I absolutely did not read that article. You're being extraordinarily rude and I know maybe that's part of your profession but please just stop. Your lawsuit

contains that you are not able to log into the system. What did you think after you were

“on Eve with a lock-in to the system? Let's have a survey. How many of you people believe that's true?”

It was never said. It never happened. I was never locked out of my systems. Anybody who says the opposite. Your lawsuit says the opposite. It was the key line for the reporter at the end. Meanwhile at the Times report on Tuesday that the FBI began investigating one of the New York Times reporters Elizabeth Williamson after she broke the story last month that Patel has had as a signed FBI SWAT teams to protect his girlfriend and drive her to her concerts because she is a

country music sensation and even a hair appointment. Patel is now denying that the FBI

investigated even though the Bureau basically confirmed to the Times that they had looked into

Williamson's quote methods. How hard is Cash Patel crushing it right now? What do you think of that for his girlfriend? Oh, man. Oh, uncomfortable. In every situation. Yeah. It's just trying too hard at all times. I just an average everyday American who loves hockey. The lawsuit is helpful if you read the lawsuit because it does detail every allegation that is bad in the Atlantic piece and one helpful page. Just put them all down one through from the Atlantic article. So long,

you couldn't get through it. You know, it basically gave you the summary of it right in the lawsuit and did essentially admit that the story about not being able to log into this email. On a stone was true. Do you think, do you think Trump gets rid of Cash? I don't know. It's

“like even more than Bondi and Christy Nome. I think that this would be seen as an”

admission if they had your own Trump's part. Who's the other? Yeah. I don't mean, I mean,

first of all, Trump said, you know, had never had a drink. He doesn't drink. And so I think he

doesn't like the idea that someone is like writing around Trump and the FBI. And not because he like, I think this is all through the prism of like it makes Trump look bad, right? This is not about using care about like the safety and security of the country. And also what Trump wants is revenge on his enemies. And I mean, look, that that press conference was about indictments. They brought against the Southern Poverty Law Center for it seems like crazy charges. But I guess it's

more crazy. Yeah. But so I think Trump's annoyed with that. So we'll see. I don't know. I would have said, I said this on Tuesday show, but I would have said no, they'll keep him if it was before Bondi and Nome. But now that he's got those two out, I feel like he's got a taste of like, I fire someone. It's a story for a day and then we move on. So would you, I know we don't predict on this show. But if if you were on some sort of prediction market platform,

would you put any of your heart or in coin on the idea that cash retail will not be in this role

“on Thanksgiving? Yes. You think it would come with Thanksgiving? Yeah. I think they'll”

yeah, because they he definitely post midterms. But you think, not definitely, but I feel you're supposed to be like, you told me like, by fourth of July, I'd be like, yeah. So you think I want to bring you their post midterms, but definitely before the end of the year. I think so. I put money on that. Okay. I don't know how much money, but I put money on it. Speaking of money and staff behaving badly, it is our solemn duty to discuss the case of

Julia Vavaro, the 29 year old who was serving as deputy assistant secretary for counterterrorism at the Department of Homeland Security. Don't worry about it. That's not a big job. According to a former romantic partner who filed a formal complaint against Vavaro, she is actively on dating sites where, quote, sugar daddies agree to fund the lifestyles of younger women, including one called Seeking, where she offered, quote, mutually beneficial

relationships according to the Daily Mail. The whistleblower slash x said he'd spend $40,000. Not betting that on cash leaving. On gifts and travel for Vavaro over the course of their three-month relationship and he thinks she's under financial stress that constitutes a national

leave after the story came out. As you know, Dan, our producers are constantly urging us

not to kink shame on the show, even though I continue to stress that kinks the constituted a national security threat do not count and traditionally have been frowned upon at the highest levels of the federal government. What if not if the right national security is your kink? Well, then then what do you do there? I don't know. Yeah, no. If people with people want to go on wherever this is just to get some sugar daddies, that's fine. If you want to be your sugar daddy,

“that's why. If you want to be a sugar daddy, that's fine. John Faffron, April 23rd, 2006.”

Just, you know, just when you when you have a government job, especially one that involves counterterrorism at homeland security, I don't know. I have to. I want to put yourself in a position

of being blackmailed. I have to admit to you that when we were slacking about this, yes,

it was on my plane. I did not know about this story. It was on news to me. And I went to my computer, and I was about to type in sugar daddy politics. And I thought better of it. There's a lot of pictures of this guy of the sugar daddy with her that the Daily Mail has published and rentals. And there's one right as we serve recording. Of course, of course, our old friend Travis Helwig, who used to work here, sent it to me. And it's just, it's just the sugar daddy

saying next to her with a little sign that says she's horny. Again, fine. But if you're deputy secretary for counterterrorism at the Department of Homeland Security, maybe less fine. Counterpoint. On the scale of corruption in this administration. Oh, this is fucking quaint. Well, it's not corruption. necessarily. It's just, it's a risk. It's also a corruption risk. Oh, I guess. Yeah. But it's not. But the, there's a blackmail risk and reason that a normal FBI cares about all of this. The reason

they all did interviews with all of us before our security clearance. I think that is the idea is that if you have lied to the FBI or you have secrets that you haven't revealed or some foreign actor, someone can blackmail you and say, if you don't do this for me, I will reveal publicly what I know about you that you go on this website, whatever. Then you are more likely to do the thing that the foreign government or actor wants you to do. That's the whole, that's the whole

reason. Anyway, that's that. That's that, that's that, Dan. Sugar daddy's for dessert. Yeah,

“sugar daddy's for dessert. That's what we got for today. All right. When we come back,”

we will talk to the Atlantic's Mark Lebavich about the shitshow in California. Pots of America is brought you by Zbiotics pre alcohol. Let's face it after a night with drinks. I don't bounce back the next day like I used to. I have to make a choice. I can't even have a great night or a great next day. That isn't till I found pre alcohol. Zbiotics pre alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PHD

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zbiotics dot com slash crooked and use the code crooked at checkout for 15% off. Mark Leaveovich. Welcome to the pod. Great to be back with you guys. Good to see you here in DC. Thanks for letting us back any of the town you rule watching in DC. Yeah. Mayor of DC they call us me. Yep. You know how all these parties I'm blacklisted from. I'm not even invited anymore. Really. Yeah, you were blacklisted from ours until we just. I know. That was happened to be

unfortunately. We're fine. Sorry. Just don't make them out. I won't say it. So you visited our fair state to report on what you and Mike Murphy lovingly referred to as the stupid circus. Okay. Yeah. Well, I guess I guess I could. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which I love.

You start the piece at a literally game with Eric Smallwell, which you know quote felt consistent

“with the wholesome image that the campaign had been straining to project of late for reasons that”

would become clear soon enough. I thought maybe laugh out loud. Did you get any bad vibes from your conversation with him? I got bad vibes from everything I had heard about him going into the conversation. This was one of those things where I'd spent the whole week to sort of touching

as many bases as I could. And Swallwell basically lives here. I don't know where he was now.

But he lives in DC. You know, we'd back in the Quaint days when he was getting heat for like not really living. It's been in that much time in California and that was like a scandal for him. He was, you know, he's here a lot. His kids are here as wife is here. Oh, here. And he's saying. Here in DC. Yeah. Yeah. He lived. I mean, he'd played a place on Capitol Hill. So, or at least he used to. So, um, don't know where he is now. But he is, uh, look, I'd heard everything. It was,

it was starting to perk up on social media, but that was kind of commensurate with whatever momentum he had. Because there was, there was definitely some movement to him and Trump did have a huge favor. Uh, I guess the batted him a huge favor by releasing these sort of like completely ridiculous 10-year-old, um, file that found no wrong doing. So, you know, a great, a great way to get elected statewide in California is to, to be a big target of Donald Trump and, you know, Adam Shift proved

that and knew some, I mean, well, he certainly got Prop 50, um, probably over the finish line.

“So, I thought so. But I, I was, I was thinking, you know, how far does this have to go before?”

I mean, do I ask, do I bring this up at the end or do I wait till another, for another conversation? Um, but, you know, there is, you guys, there was no other conversation. Well, there, there was, and I mean, literally three days later, um, the implosion happened. But I mean, you guys know, there's a big gap between stuff that everyone talks about, and recordable, actionable stuff,

and to the, eternal credit to the, to the San Francisco Chronicle first, uh, later CNN. I mean,

they, they nailed it down and looks like it was kind of tip of the iceberg. So, I, I mean, I definitely caught, I, I knew the reputation. I mean, he was, he's a perfectly, he can present him, he's a thoughtful, ish guy. I mean, he's kind of Adam Shift light in some ways, except, without, with, with all the personal baggage. But, uh, so, yeah, and I knew something was coming, and they were clearly very self-conscious about it. It was like, and he was going over the top

about his kid's little league thing. I mean, he didn't, you know, understandably want to keep his kids out of it, but it was a whole dad thing. He brought his wife along, um, she seemed very nice. So, it was a little over the top. In all of your reporting, like, for people who are from California, haven't been paying attention to the race, like, why is this the field? It's a great question. I mean, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the short answer is Kamala Harris, Alex Padilla,

“who apparently, everyone wanted to run. I'm not sure, I buy that. I think there's a little bit”

of revisionist history there, but their big names, they would have, if not cleared the field, definitely would have, you know, probably guaranteed 25%, certainly Kamala would have, maybe, a little more, and George Clooney lives in Francis, you know. Yeah, and, you know, new, new, new Sims term limited. I mean, there are, I mean, there are quite a few, I think, quite talented Congress, members of Congress from, from the delegation, I think, you know, a couple of mayors,

but, again, there's not, I mean, there's not like a giant in the race, and there, I don't know if Kamala would have been that person, but there wasn't. So, when you have just the math of seven Democrats splitting their votes seven ways, two Republicans who were complete unknowns, and, you know, I wouldn't think on elect, I wouldn't think that electable in California under regular circumstances, they're just splitting their votes two ways, you know, this is the math issue. So,

the Republicans, for anyone who doesn't know, there's a runoff system, jungle primary, top two finishers, and the June 2nd primary, regardless of the party, go on to the November election, and in a lot of the polls, the top two finishers have been Steve Hilton and Chad Bianco, the sheriff of Riverside County, just basically two Republicans that no one's heard of, but they could get there in November, and there could be no Democrat on the belt. And California is interesting because

it's such a big state that it's almost impossible for anyone to be known in it, and we've just had this situation where our last three governors were Gavin Newsom, who was quite famous when he eventually won because of the gay marriage, the gay marriage, Jerry Brown, who had been governor before, it was a national figure and run for president, and run for Schwarzenegger before that. And, and if you are a member of Congress, you cannot, it's so expensive to run for Governor

there, you, you just, you know, almost impossible for anyone, unless you're an American, it's a national profile, which swallows sort of head. It's impossible to raise the money to

run there, and you just had possible to get name ID because we have a million media markets,

like the official before he behaves, and, or even if he had run, he's still would have fit into this mix because he's, he's no more well known than have you of a Sarah who had been Attorney General and HHS Secretary. Then just maybe think, I'm not to get us off in a tangent, but like, don't you think that's the future or where we are now of national politics at the presidential level too? Like it just seems like if you go back the nominees of each party,

who the president ended up being for the last 10, 15 years, just the way the attention economy works now, if you are not famous, it is very hard to become famous out of nowhere. Yeah, the national politics and the national level. You have to be someone who is a master at attention. Right, like, people to judge is the example someone who became famous. He's the one example. So, every other candidate in the 20th century democratic primary, finishing order of name ID,

other than the, at the outset other than people to judge. No, but there's a wildcard here, which is, and it's relevant to this race, which is Tom Stier, who basically became known, you know, got actually under debate stages in 2020. It was actually, you know, finished seventh in New Hampshire in, I think, sixth and I or something like that, but he finished the learning. It's South Carolina. Thank you. Did he really? Hey, dance with Juvenile on stage at the end.

“Yeah. That's what people remember about that. Yes. I mean, actually no one really remembers that Joe Biden”

was rescued in South Carolina. It's only, it was only that. No, so Tom Stier, I mean, he basically

he spent $140 million so far in this race. I mean, it's really quite something. I mean,

it's for strategy, it's spend as much money as possible. Put as many ads out there as possible and take the most liberal position possible, and maybe that gets you home. I mean, Swallwell wasn't was known, but that's because of MSNBC and CNN. I mean, it was adhering, right? So, but that's all national, nationalized political news and very Trump centric. The Sarah, he's one person like surprisingly absent in your piece. Is that, did they, did they not give you an interview?

You know, so that was just, I mean, when I wrote it a week ago, he was nowhere, right? And I kind of had to make, I mean, I had, you know, 2,500 words. I took about $4,000. And still, there's a lot to explain. There are a lot of characters and Bacera seemed kind of back in the pack. And a lot of it's just logistical. I mean, I was out there to cover this debate, the debate was canceled. I had

72 hours. I basically could only stick around Southern California. He was in Northern California.

So, I mean, there's, sometimes not, not a lot of rhyme or reason. He also might just not have

“weren't talked to me as Stire and Porter didn't. Did he, uh, what did you take on there?”

I'm not much. I mean, I, I mean, I really, I, I'm trying to figure out, um, he's had the, the surges real with Bacera. Like, he's, it's now been a number of polls where he's either in tied for first or right after that. And the money has followed. And I'm just like, what, what happened? Yeah. Well, I mean, the number is thin. I mean, I mean, Betty, he was at 1% she dropped out too. So, I mean, that's a number. But I mean, Swallow dropped. Um, and there was a sense released a

couple days that Stire was just going to be okay. He's going to inherit the wind here. And I think there was an immediate backlash. And a lot of people I talked to were just instantly just offended by that. Just, uh, part of it is just sort of like the basic American ideal, but it has hostility

towards buying an election, which is basically what this is. Um, and, and also the guy doesn't

particularly present all that well. And I think Bacera, if you ever got a first look, got a first and a half look or something like that. And he's quite credentialed. I mean, he was in the Biden situation. He was the AG in California, um, you know, he's out there. But there was a debate last

“night. I don't know how well he did. What did you guys think of the debate from what you saw?”

Dan, what do you think? I saw highlights of the debate. And then I watched parts of it on three XP this morning and my one hour to do this. Um, I, if Bacera had delivered a great performance, he could have essentially locked up a spot here. I think, um, but he did not. And so that leaves the, I think you leave the debate still wondering who the candidates who could actually solidify in this field. If people are really hoping it was going to be Bacera, you know, and California

races are largely funded by interest groups, the California teachers, the environmental folks, the trial lawyers, and they would rally around him. Well, they could, they were looking for someone to rally around, because swallow had a lot of these labor endorsements. Um, some of one of them has gone to styres and said, um, but he could have seized them on that time, and I'm not sure he did. Also, not sure how many people watched any of it. So I'm, it's hard to say. I thought Matt

may hand was aggressive in a way that like, he needs to get attention, right? And so I thought he did, he did ball there. It's styret took a lot of incoming, um, which I surprised, I guess, because he's the front, still kind of the front runner. Um, and so it was a lot of like, people attacking styre. Cere didn't seem like, I thought Bacera and Katie Porter both kind of quiet in the debate, like they didn't have a lot of big moments. Yeah, Porter was a little better than

I think, I mean, I don't know. I don't think anyone, I don't know if people are going to give her a second look. She kind of stall them, and she, like, swallow had a bit of a national profile

and didn't get a lot of traction. I mean, there were some pretty nasty viral videos about her old, but she caused, I mean, one sort of jumping down the fate, the throat of a staff, but we're just yelling at a staff member, yelling at a reporter, um, come below other things. So some reputation of issues. News soon told you, he wouldn't endorse unless it's a break-class moment. Um, what's your read from talking to him, both his relative absence in this race and his seemingly

inevitable 2028 campaign. Or his preference, if he's preference, his preference. Uh, I would say,

“okay, I have some, I think some informed wisdom on that. I mean, I think he is as underwhelmed as”

a lot of other people are. A lot of other Democrats are about this field. I think he hasn't been that shy about it privately. Um, even he told you, is that I think the field is interesting. Yeah. Yeah. This field is a great personality. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I'm not sure. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Um, so there's that. I mean, apparently, I mean, he, I think was looking to have some kind of a Sarah breakout. I don't think he has issues. I think he's fine with

the Sarah. Uh, he doesn't like Mayhand. Um, I think he has reservations about Porter. I think he has reservations about Stire. Um, and, um, for a lot of reasons, but I think that he was really looking for a reason to, to have someone like a Sarah sort of like make his decision for him. So we'll see. I don't, I don't know. I mean, I think he would love real a real process of elimination

pick. Yeah. It's not, I mean, unfortunately, you know, new some, I mean, he's not always the most

decisive guy in the world, but I do think that his in decision here is quite or his, his hesitation here is sincere, and I think it's reflective of a larger ambivalence among Democrats. When he did endorse the Lieutenant Governor's race this week, he did. He did. So he can't do it. He is allowed. Yeah. He has experiences of Lieutenant. Yes. So it's your favorite weekend of the year. It is. You're super bull. But yeah, the white has corresponded. Marty, grow the whole thing. Yeah. Um,

“I guess the only thing different about this year is the Trump's going to be there at the dinner”

for the first time since 2011. First time as president. Yeah. Um, that'll be interesting. What do you think, though? Is anything changed? Is it, has the dinner regained any of its splendor from years ago? We're getting. But I will party. I haven't been invited to that. So

here's the thing. Okay. Full disclosure. Um, no, you guys a long time. I'm, I'm 60 years old now.

Okay. I'm, I'm, I'm spring-chicken in Congress. Look right. Thanks. I feel great. Well, hey, you're 20 years younger than the media Democrat. That's very good. I'm about to young for the Senate. Um, I don't, I mean, I will do a Saturday night. I'm first of all. And now that I'm not the New York Times anymore, I can go to the dinner. The Atlantic is, I think, two tables. Oh, yeah, I was going to ask for the answer. I went last year. I think I went the year before they asked

what I wanted to go. And I wasn't sure I was allowed to say no, but I tried and they accepted my answer. Although I will say, I don't know if this is a mistake or luster or intrigue or whatever. But from a pure, um, voyeuristic point of view, I mean, I think Trump almost certainly has something planned. I mean, I think like the great mass arrester. No, but some like a really great way to do their body. No, I mean, it would not surprise me at all if he was just intentionally antagonistic,

prepared something, not the least bit clever, not the least bit funny, not the least bit gracious. I mean, to think about all the opportunities he's had to play that game. I'm starting with the Al Smith dinner when he was with Hillary in 2016. And I don't think he would have accepted this. Well, I think part of him just thinks, all right, what a spectacle. I'll be in the middle of it. You know, who knows how many opportunities. I'll have to be this. It'll be different.

But I'd be shocked if he didn't have something antagonistic planned. And I mean, the media's not organized. I don't know what they're going to do. But it'll be, it'll be kind of a reality show, which is what he does. And I mean, I don't think there's like a great August and, you know, beyond reproach tradition of the White House Correspondence dinner that could be lost and that he could soil like he's soiled other institutions around Washington. But I do think that

I mean, it could be, there could be some friction there. That will be worth watching and kind of glad enough to be there for. Do you think it's going to be a problem when his plan runs

headlong into this first amendment pins that the reporters have ran? That'll do it, man.

“I am. So when I was kind of tell the story, I don't know. Now you have to.”

So I was, when I went to college in the 80s, I graduated college in the 80s, University of Michigan, they wanted to give an honorary degree to Nelson Mandela. And there was some regent or some rule, the Michigan regents or something. He couldn't be, if you can't be there in

We all know what that was at the time. And there was an alternative, you know, those are what we were protesting that were like a big button. And I wore, you can see on my graduation again, or my thing, it was a Nelson Mandela button. So that was my protest there. So you can tell that story. That was you accepted the award on his behalf, I thought that's right.

“Yes, it wouldn't have been fun. Liberal reporter comes out from Mandela, right? Yes, you know what?”

You'd be surprised, resistance. No, so what do you think about, I mean, Trump is the, you know,

has investigated reporters, has trashed the press, has stomped over the first amendment,

a secretary of defense who is a guest of the Paramount Corporation, has kicked reporters out of the Pentagon. What do you like, talking to me about how the press sees things about going to that dinner in that context? I think it's, well, I think it's uncomfortable at the best. I mean, look, I mean, the Atlantic is still going. And I mean, I assume you guys have been invited to some signal change, so it's okay. Yeah, so I mean, every, every one of the group

chat gets to get to table. I mean, look, just, I mean, this week, I mean, like, Sarah Kirkpatrick, my colleague, I mean, she wrote this cash detail story. They, they served us, I mean, they're, they're file lawsuit two days ago. Which, I mean, there's, that's a little bit standard. I mean, like, nasty story, it's a constitutional response to constitutional response. Yeah, correct. But I don't see how many, I mean, I, I don't know a lot of journalists who are excited about it,

just as many more than they would normally be. Now, they're sort of like a sport around you have to sort of, you know, really rise at the whole thing. It's like, I'll, I'm above it, but my bosses are making it. And, and here, I mean, you can also get a lot of work done. I mean, if you're one stop shopping and you want to talk to people and stuff. But,

“yeah, but I mean, I think the, the, the dissonance between what Trump talks about with the”

administration is done and what the dinner is supposed to stand for, kind of, is pretty obvious. I mean, I'll have to be highlighted with the Wall Street Journal, gets the reward for their abstain letter story. That'll be an interesting scene, right? I mean, I do wonder about it. I mean, I was actually, I still think there's a non-zero chance that he could pull out. Yeah. But who knows? 250 journalists, Dan Rathers, Sam Donaldson, signed an open letter,

demanding that the White House correspondent's association used the podium to condemn Trump by name and toast the first amendment. Do you think there's any chance they do that? I was going to say something snarky, but then, I would say no. I don't think there's a chance. Yeah, like, I thought it was funny, because the first time I'm like, well, that's not going to happen, but I'm like, what? Why? Why should I? I could imagine a condemnation that is not

so harsh and unfair that it, like, I could imagine doing it in a thoughtful way. Yeah, I can see that. But I don't, I mean, who's the president? Yeah, of the course policy. Well, actually, it's Donald Trump.

No, it marked a Rubio. It's not the only one. It's always been bizarre.

It's more bizarre now. The best argument that the media organizations can make is the money goes to pay for scholarships for young journalists scholarship. There are other ways to raise money for journalists of scholarships and don't involve a toast to a president who just painted the White House press pool, maybe, but yeah, the toast to the president of the United States and that is always, I mean, I don't care who the president is. It just strikes me as

distasteful. Yeah, the whole thing, even like, the toast is crazy. I'm imagining the toast tonight, that, um, or tomorrow, whenever it is Saturday night, it's crazy. It is. One thing to be there with them, which is like, you can debate that enough, but the actual toast is just, what are we doing? There are two reasons to go. I mean, one, the comedians can be good. No, comedians show that right? No, comedians. It's a metalist, forget that. The manosphere's

mentalist. And, and there are certain moments when presidents can, you know, with good timing. I mean, the guy you worked for can, can do well. I don't think Biden's talks were terribly good. Bush had his moments, I thought, Clinton had his moments. I don't know. I mean, but that's those days are long gone. Um, last question for you, this town came out in 2013. If you were writing the 2026 edition, uh, what's the opening scene? Who's the central character?

Opening scene. Oh, man, you put me on the spot. You want me to do it for you? Yeah, please. You're in butterworse. No, that story's been done. Yeah, another one. What about that? Well, I texted you about one. There was a funeral. There was another funeral. I mean, there have been a lot of funeral. I mean, because you, because you opened this

“town as people that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. I mean, there was a funeral.”

Was it a Carter's? Was you, were you a Carter's funeral? I've done a lot of the most okay.

So here's the thing. Since that book came out or Cheney. The New York Times, I did do a

pieces I did for the New York Times. I was kind of playing out the string and cleaning out my desk and Elizabeth B. Miller, my boss walked over to him and said, hey, you know, Bob Dold died. And the, um, the funerals at the Kennedy Center, I'm not the Kennedy Center at the National Cathedral on Friday. You got to cover it. So I mean, there are several moments like that where I was kind of

“became the funeral guy. Um, that was during COVID too. I remember like, and it was a huge deal to”

fund me to wear a mask because you were in a cathedral. You have packed with elderly people, you know, signs everywhere where I'm asked where I'm asked DC rules the whole thing. And I remember looking, I was sitting in the press area right above where the Senate was seated where most of a lot of the sitting senators were every single one of them was wearing a mask except for Ted Cruz who was being completely ostentatious about it. And, you know, we're talking elderly people. Yeah,

there's no vaccine yet. You know, right across the way. And I mean, it was a church. It means just the whole thing. And, you know, he probably got a shout out for it. Anyway, um, there, the problem with, I mean, Tim Russell, that was the thing though. I mean, the critique, which seems very quite now, was that there was this one world, one Washington, you know, overly chummy world between the media and the money people and the lobbyists and the former people

and the elected officials and the White House and Congress. And that was what was in city as at the time, which, of course, in retrospect, seems like a comedy of matters and matters. I mean, the fact that Trent Lot and John Bro, a Democrat in a Republican, a Republican in a Democrat, would go into business together and make money. I mean, that was like a scandal. And I mean, again, it's almost, I'm not embarrassed by it because it was just a, but it just gives you a sense of

how much time has passed. Second book was suck up culture, but it was really around Trump. Yeah.

“And that would be, the second term does feel different. I mean, I do think, okay, so I think that”

it's kind of running on two tracks now. It's suck up culture around Trump, which is, which is orders of magnitude worse now. I mean, it's just, it's begun beyond, called, let's parody. But there's also, um, so my book was called, "Thank you for your servitude." I don't know if I could talk about this, but I will anyway. Jacob Weisberg as a book coming out called profiles and cowardice, which, um, I read like a part of it. And it's, it's a similar way. There's a lot of that.

I mean, it's sort of of a piece to that. Um, I don't know. I mean, I do think that it's hard to think of like what the one, what the merger of Maga and sort of Normie politics as we know it, whether, you know, independence, democrats, some republicans. Yeah. I mean, my scent, like, I've been golfing the city for 10 years now, but my sense is there is just the last of the stuff that was at the center of your book, which is basically this idea that everyone, you know, cosplayed rivals

during the day. And then they went to the same cocktail parties at night and all hung out in them as the like one party circuit. And it doesn't seem like that necessarily still the case in the

“same way. Yeah. I don't see how it could. I honestly don't. I mean, I just have people who, I mean,”

I mean, I mean, you've all lived here. I mean, it was actually possible to have bipartisan friendships for it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's hard. Like, I mean, the Maga just like it's a whole different dimension. And they don't seem to want to have much to do with mainstream journalists, mainstream democrats,

you know, people who have been critical of president Trump and vice versa, democratic institution.

Yeah. I mean, again, I mean, I always thought that and, and other presidents have tried variations on this, but I mean, blowing off the White House Correspondence Center would have been a great move for any president, not just when Trump started doing it. I mean, I thought, you know, Obama, Bush, whoever would have gotten, you know, we've gotten credit for it in some way. It might have been some grudging, you know, people want to come to this country, but they

would have walked into your office. Our disrespectful to the first amendment. Yeah. That would have been terrible. Yeah. Um, you know, the anyway. No, but, but so, um, I mean, so, but yeah, so Trump was obviously, he wasn't on to something, but I mean, he just sort of, he just trashed the whatever polite society existed here that was probably too cozy for it's own good. But now he's trying to just run it because he went to the, uh, uh, uh, South Africa, didn't go there for a dinner. He did. Yeah.

He did. Which makes the White House Correspondence Center look like a, you know, wild wigs. Yeah.

That's pretty, that's a good line. No, I've never actually been to the LFL for dinner.

Um, I staffed Obama at once. Really. I want, uh, Burger King in the, uh, the background of my piecebook. Because they're, they're, they didn't have food for the staff. So we, so Regina, Marvin, I had to get a Burger King to, uh, feed. That's perfect. I mean, probably the best time of anyone. Yeah. So my leave of it. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Well, we'll come to a

first amendment, tense. Oh, I totally will. Yeah. Actually, you know, what though? There'll, there'll

“be like a, like, a kitty for us to, like, put money in for the scholarships, right? Yes. That's”

the first, the Potsay from Erica Scholarship. Yeah. Yeah. For a young Potsay, I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Just starting

out. All right. Thanks, leave a big eye. I'll take a tight t-shirt. Yeah. Thanks, Mark. Leave a

rich for coming on. Uh, Tommy will be back with an interview with Sarah Longwell on Sunday's PSA. And

then Tommy and love it. I will be back with a new episode in your feet on Tuesdays. Bye, everyone.

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