This isn't "I Heart Podcast.
Guarantee Human. I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is Icarol. This podcast is all about going deeper
“with the women shaping culture right now.”
Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work behind it all.
As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated.
So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are in your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like the silent ninja. Listen to it, girl, with Bailey Taylor on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no grip. A new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-explored pockets of F1. Including the story of the woman who last participated in a Formula One race weekend,
the recent uptick in F1 romance novels. And plenty of mishab scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no grip on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Ruthie's Table 4, presented by Sky. There are all sorts of very good reasons to listen to Ruthie's Table 4. But I suspect that for many of us, it is simply the love of Ruthie Rogers. I'm Ashley Baker, a journalist, as well as one of Ruthie's many friends. And I am here to turn the table, so to speak, on our host.
Her new book is out next week, and it's called Table 4 at the River Cafe, Conversations about Food and Life. It is full of so much wisdom about love, food, the pursuit of happiness. But today we're about to figure out what is in that special sauce that makes Ruthie's world so completely irresistible, not to mention delicious.
We will not be sitting in Table 4 today. We are going to be sitting at the one where Ruthie and her friends and families so often gather. Here at Ruthie's Beautiful Home in London. Ruthie, one of the things that I love so much about this book is that it feels really different for you. Like, you have a restless creative energy.
You've done so many incredible things over the course of your career, and now you're giving us something to curl up with in bed at night. Were you nervous about doing a book like this? I mean, or did it seem very intuitive for you? It was challenging.
It was challenging to do a book without a recipe. It was just a very different book, but I loved every minute. I really love doing this book.
Talking about recipes, I never thought of them as poetry,
and then I heard Michael Kane read his on the River Café's podcast.
“I mean, what inspired this idea to bring recipes and turn them into this means of communication?”
Well, are the real stories that about 20 years ago, Richard and I, I thought we have this big space, you know, house, we have friends. And what if we did for a kind of charitable event? We would have actors or writers or musicians to do whatever they wanted to do in this space. And we would have, we could see about a hundred people,
and they would come in, and then we would ask the person who was performing. They could give the money, the proceeds to their half to their charity, and half to one that Richard and I believed in. And one night, in Michele and did his, and he had a piano, and he sang songs, and he read Shakespeare, and he did a song and he told Hanukkah's,
and at the very, very end, that's something I didn't know he was going to do. He read a recipe from one of our books for Repalita, a task and soup, a bread soup. And it was just he stood on these stairs, and he read the recipe, and it was so spell binding to hear a recipe, you know, peel, take four cloves of garlic and gently smash them, and you know, fry the oil. It was beautiful to listen to.
“And so I think what we thought of doing these repodcasts,”
that people might want to just tune in here, may find, so Jake Jellanol or Victoria Beckham, David Beckham, to read a recipe. And then our mutual friend, Grayden Carter, said, "I think you need something a bit more, and why don't you segue from the recipe into a story."
So tell me about the first few episodes, and how you tempting these incredible people to come talk about food with you.
Why, why, why? Yeah, it was the pandemic. There were people were alone in their houses. People were, you know, not flying off to do something in another country. And I think there were people who cared about the river cafe. They may have also cared about me, because it was the time that was quite difficult,
because my husband had an accident. I always like to think that if I'd asked David Beckham to talk about football, or Michael Cain about making movies, or was Anderson about directing a movie, they might have said, "I've done that so many times." But if I asked him to say, "What we're going to do is talk about food.
Did your mother cook? Did your father cook?" Did you cook as a child? There's so many questions concerning about food in people's lives.
So he did call Michael, and he said yes.
And then I reached out to Wes, that there were three, and he said yes.
“And then we asked, "I think the third one was, I think it was Jake Jones, actually.”
Three men that I knew." And each of them really just did read a recipe. We did a meeting with the, I heart people in New York. And they listened to Wes Reader's recipe for a roast pigeon. And they listened to Jake Reader's recipe for tomato sauce.
And they listened to Michael Cain do, but I think it's a recipe with potatoes and panchetta, I think. And so I think just hearing those three voices, they said, "Let's do it." And that's really how it started. I'm going to review an introduction that I wrote for you. These lovely interactions for everyone else. But I hope that this gets at sort of the sense of why I think Reader's day before resonates with so many people.
This is my introduction for Reader. Sometimes in life, if you're very lucky, you end up with a friend like Reathie Rogers.
The one who makes you laugh and makes you sing, who always asks about your parents and loves your children, almost as much as you do.
For many people around the world, Reathie Rogers is best known for their ever cafe. And now, all these years in her irresistible podcast, Reathie's Table 4. But for those of us lucky enough to really know her, she's a shining example of how to live and how to love, which is why I suspect Reathie's Table 4 has become such a sensation. We can all feel it through the airways.
And now we are here to celebrate it, because Reathie's collected all of those best moments into this irresistible book. Congrats Reathie. Wow. Well, now I know how people feel when they have an introduction read to them.
“Do you say this person one free Oscars or found the cure to disease or the ball through a net in the middle of a, you know, the world cupcake?”
But it's really more about what they mean to me and why they're here and what I think we can do together. I do have a connection with most of the people who have been on the podcast.
But there are some people I met literally for the first time as they walked in to do the podcast.
So I think it is established, you know, trust and establish a connection and knowing that they're safe. And what I say, you know, which we're going to talk about food, really. But that goes into politics, it goes into relationships, it goes into history. And as you say, it's through the lens of food, you get the story. On that note, I mean, for a podcast again that's ostensibly about food, we get into so many other topics.
And I'm going to take you through some of my favorite parts of the book that are the most surprising things. I think that we have discovered. Is that okay? Yeah. I'm going to start with Elton John because he doesn't rarely does interviews. I mean, this is an incredibly intimate moment that you have like him.
“And you have Elton and his husband, David Furnish, who are friends of yours, right?”
Yes, they are. How did you guys meet? We met actually when John Kerry was going to be the Democratic candidate. And we met. I was shopping. They were there. And I guess we, you know, recognize each other talk.
And we started talking as everybody was right then and there thinking this is a crucial, crucial lecture.
And I told them that I was going to do a benefit for John Kerry in our house. And maybe Elton would like to come and play. And they both left at the idea and that began the conversation of how we could create something together. David is Canadian. They're both incredibly socially active in terms of what they've done for AIDS. And so it was, it was out of that for a really close friendship.
I do it. I mean, I didn't realize this really shocked me. Elton says about the time that they met. He says, I was in AA. So I hadn't really met anybody except AA people for three years. I mean, did you know his struggles with alcoholism have been publicized? But I mean, this was really surprising to me.
Yeah, no, I didn't know that at all. And I think they were sitting there in his house. We went there. I think we went for a walk first. We went in the garden. I think I do think people are, even people have given a lot of interviews are vulnerable. You know, I opened up about my struggles. I opened up about theirs.
And I think it is a very meaningful interview at the end of it. One man who was there listening actually said, you know, I've set through so many of these interviews with over the last 20 years with Elton. But I hadn't heard these stories because what a journalist asked to do showpiece with your grandmother. Maybe not.
I mean, it was so moving how he talked about growing up in a council flat. And we have to math a World War II. And a recurring theme in many of your conversations is this idea of cooking as being a bright spot in very dark times. Did you notice that when you guys did? You know, I think with older people at Michael Kane, who actually went through the war and rationing.
When you asked the question, what did your kitchen look like?
And then describing your kitchen, most of the people in this book,
“probably most of the people in life did not grow up entitled.”
They did not grow up with the sense of the advantages that so many of us have. And they see food almost as a measure of their success. That they became a point when they were, you know, pulled McCartney or Elton or Tracy M in. All really found that at a certain point they could eat well because they had achieved something in life that allowed it. I love how Victoria Beckham spoke about how her mother used the oven as a filing cabinet.
And she didn't grow up with fancy food at all. And then when she was in the spice girl, she told you, that's when she started going to restaurants and discovering this love of cooking. I mean, she was a fascinating interview because her thoughts on food and her diet has been so discussed in the tablets over the years. What did you learn from? What I thought about Victoria is that she's rigorous, it's discipline. She really said that she found the food that could make her perform well.
And she knew that there was a certain way of eating that meant she could sing and dance on the stage. And that discipline, I think, was probably part of her knowing how to sing and how to do the moves and how to listen to the music and perform, was the same as the rigor that she does with her diet, the beat with her just very recently. And she sticks to it. It's for discipline. I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is Icarol.
You may know me from my Icarol series I've done on the streets of New York over the years. Well, I've got good news. I am bringing those interviews and many more to this podcast. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations and the real work with the women shaping culture right now.
“As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard and you have to push the narrative in a way that doesn't compromise who you are in your integrity.”
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Each week, I have unfiltered conversations with female founders, creatives, and leaders to talk about ambition, visibility, and what it really takes to build something meaningful in the public eye. Because being an Icarol isn't about the spotlight, it's about owning it. I think the negatives need to be discussed and they need to be told to people who maybe don't do this every day, just so they know what's really going on. I feel like pulling the curtain back is important.
Listen to Icarol with Bailey Taylor on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Roses, you know, was your co-founder at the River Cafe and such an important part of your life. I mean, I feel like she's lore in the Ruthie Roger's story.
Rose died in 2010, but for your listeners and your friends who never had the chance to meet her, well, she liked.
She's a force. She was she known every way. She was someone who, you know, filled the room. She's beautiful. She was tall. She was a character, you know, she, whatever she was doing, if she looked at you, you felt you were the only person in the room. You know, she was that kind of, she was a great teacher. And, you know, the first time I met her, I say that I rang the doorbell of her house because she was a neighbor. And friends, we should have been in friend with her for years.
And I rang the doorbell and she came to the door with a baby on her hip and a martini in her, in her hand, you know, and that was Rose. And she said, "Come on in, who are you?" She's the most lovable and kind. She was fierce, you know, she didn't, you know, like something, you would know it. Whether she walked into a restaurant and said, "You don't know how to make a lintage that I come and teach you." She was amazing. Much, much love to me. Think of her all the time. You know, we think of her when we, you know,
we're the piece of fish or make a cake, you know, she knows it's there. In Michael's interview, he also talked about talks about your grandparents and your father in particular coming back to America was sort of a European taste and food. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about, you know, what that was like for you growing up in sort of the most early taste sensation that you can remember as a child.
“I think we ate very simply in my house, both my parents worked, so my mother was a librarian, my father was a doctor.”
We went to school, we did our homework, and then meals were, they were good food.
You know, they were always served on the table. It was a lot about discussion, and I think it came probably from generations of, you know,
and the great families, one set of my grandparents came from Russia, the other from Hungary, and I think the, you know, the importance of community and family.
My grandfather used to say, "My father, when he would bring somebody home, ar...
You know, the idea that you were in a foreign land, and you didn't have friends, you know, so I think that probably stayed with my parents, but the circle spread, and we didn't have strangers with their friends and people who came to the house. I think our house was a house that my friends wanted to go to, and I think that's nice. Kind of reminds me of the River Cafe? Maybe.
I hope so.
And our own house, I always liked it when my kids brought friends home rather than the way to other friends houses.
“That's another recurring theme in the book, this idea of interesting people getting together, talking about the big ideas and what matters in life,”
West Anderson had a great anecdote about that. He talked about going on the Queen Mary II from New York to England with Jason Chordsman and Roman Koblen, who's like, "Janny," and told the Swinton, "Western's wife." I mean, I love this idea of kind of great people getting together and doing unexpected things. Did you notice that that was a topic that sort of came up is sort of being as, you know, as a crucible for the creative act?
I think that a lot of the people just saw collaboration and food as part of their work. So especially filmmakers who are on set all day, you know, particularly West, at the end of the day sitting down and then having dinner and talking about what you did. And that happens with people who are chefs, people who are Vivek Murphy, who is a surgeon general, you know, talks about being government, I'd say, a Mark Carney talking about at the Bank of England, making sure that when people came into his office, there was something to eat or drink, you know, that people could sit and have something to relax.
Michael Bloomberg, who always asked him to be interviewed people at restaurants.
And he said, "Yes, because the way a person acts in a restaurant is so telling of who they are. Are they kind to the waiter? Do they look the waiter in the eye? Do they share their food? Do they, you know, if there's so many things that you can find out reading with someone about who they are?" These are really emotional conversations a lot of the time. I mean, has there ever been a moment in an interview where you've had to stop reset, you know,
“where people have ended up sort of surprising themselves with what they've revealed?”
Yeah, very early on when we, and I know she would mind when Queen of Palatra was on, and we, you know, I love her, and we know each other, and we started talking.
And I think I talked about her first and said that when my youngest son died, we wanted to have, it was very sad,
and then it was very close to the Christmas party at the River Cafe. And I wanted to do something for all the people who had really seen me through and my family through this terrible time. And so I thought, "What can I do for you know them?" So I asked when if she would just come and sing a song when they sat as a surprise. And I just did, she left a concert gig, I think at Wembley of Chris Martin came, Chris London got there and I told them all that we're going to hear a lecture in organic farming.
So we got it prepared for that, and then when it came out in a little Christmas cap and sang. And you know, when we both started to cry, we tell that story, and then as we were sort of teary, we talked about her father and Florence and the death of her father. Another one of the recurring themes that's so beautiful in this book is this idea of a maternal relationship. And I think that for many people you have that kind of, you know, you're a bit of a motherly figure, especially for Austin Butler, my name is very close to.
I was so moved by his story of, you know, his mother, who was the state-home mother, who ended up passing away and, you know, how Austin started cooking as a child because his dad had to work. He was getting paid $2 a night. I mean, did that surprise you? I don't know if it's surprised me, but it told me something more about him. You know, Austin was someone that he was, he, Elvis hadn't come out yet. He was here filming with Carrie Fook and Ega, masters of the air of calendar. We were all bit orphans in the storm at that time. They were away from their families. They were making this film. You know, my husband had an accident.
So we were all, another friends who came, we were just about six of us. And so in the world of, you know, kind of uncertainty, the certainty was that for 48 weeks or 39 weeks, somebody counted every Sunday. We met for cards and supper. You know, and that was it. Sometimes people would come and been before.
“Sometimes somebody was in town, but it was this core group, Austin, Calen, Carrie, my two friends, Katie and Stefan, and that's what we did.”
[Music]
I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl.
Well, I've got good news. I am bringing those interviews and many more to this podcast.
Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work with the women shaping culture right now.
“As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard and you have to push the narrative in a way that doesn't compromise who you are in your integrity.”
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Each week, I have unfiltered conversations with female founders, creatives, and leaders to talk about ambition, visibility, and what it really takes to build something meaningful in the public eye. Because being in It Girl isn't about the spotlight, it's about owning it. I think the negatives need to be discussed and they need to be told to people who maybe don't do this every day, just so they know what's really going on. I feel like pulling the curtain back is important.
Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. [Music] I want to talk briefly about Richard because in many ways he's another through line of this book, and certainly an important part of the life of the show and the life of the river cafe. Did you tell him that you were thinking about starting a podcast, did you discuss it with him?
I mean, what do you think you would make of all of this?
I think he would love it. I think he would love it. The great thing about Richard is that he was just like, "Let's do it." You know, it was starting the restaurant or having a party or he just was a very positive person. And I was thinking of all the people that I would like to have, I'm often asked, "Who, what guest would you like to have most?" And of course I would have had Richard because he loved food. I don't think he ever had meal on his son's side, my steps on his producer of this series.
“I'd create it with me, of it, all those days ago, you should have a microphone here.”
But I sometimes say that I don't think Richard ever ate a meal without a glass of wine. Do you? I don't roast. Oh, sure. Okay. I think, but I think that he just got such pleasure out of food.
He loved to eat. He loved people. He could not understand the concept of wanting to be thinner. You know, the whole thing was about the pleasure of food. And the thing he loved most was having the river cafe next door to his office. And so he was there all the time. You know, there's a great story which is that we came in. There was a new waitress.
And she was crying. And I said, "Why are you crying?" He was just like nine o'clock in the morning. She said, "Well, I brought a cloth song in from home." And I put it on the bar and Richard Rogers came in and ate it. He said, "Okay."
So he loved food. He loved people. He would have been fun to have him here on this. He would have enjoyed it, especially since his son and his family affair. I mean, he would have loved Carrie Russell. She's one of my favorite interviews in this entire book. Carrie loves to eat. She's a girl after our own hearts.
She said that when she's on sets, she mostly eats donuts. Yeah, legitimately, I love that. Does she love that? Mel Brooks was good. Mel Brooks could remember age 99.
The name of the woman who gave him his first spaghetti.
87. So for 92 years, he's remembered this woman's name that gave him the pasta. You know, and that's a food memory. He was great. And both he and Frank Gary had mothers who kept a carp in the bathtub. A huge fish so that they could make a filter fish when they wanted to.
“And I think that was kind of interesting.”
So there were probably 10 years apart in age. One was from Toronto, Canada, Frank Gary. And Mel grew up in Brooklyn, but they both kept fish in the bathtub. Sugar is also a main character on this book. I mean, it seems like so many of the people you spoke with had these memories of eating sweets when they were younger. Especially people like Stephen Fry, who had a memorable experience of boarding school.
It was really compelling this into Stephen Fry. We talked about food as comfort, food as something that he craved when he was sent to boarding school. So young, where you would have thought the food might be carefully cooked, but it wasn't. And so the refuge of the sweet shop. I think food is comfort is something that I really am interested in and go for it.
Well, your brother Michael is partial to blensis, right? Well, you're not Florence who made a difference? Yeah. Yeah, no, I wouldn't go for the blensis. I think it really depends on what I'm feeling, what kind of comfort.
But I think it would be probably a positive of tomato sauce.
Yeah, I just feel good when I eat that.
You know, I think one of the powers of this book is the way that it gives you insight into people that you thought you knew, right? Like people like Nancy Pelosi, Sarah Jessica Parker, Tracy Amens, Steven Fry, Jeff Goldblum, Al Gore. You know, we've read hundreds of interviews with these people over the years.
“And yet, I think your book gives us new insight into what we thought we knew.”
And that's what makes it so special. So on that note, we are going to try to give people more insight into everything we do. The writers have a quick lightning round of questions. Okay.
The first, what is your karaoke song?
All of me. How do you like your eggs? Uh, scrambled. Richard's favorite thing that you ever cooked for him. A fish to fill with a sauce that is made of the juices of the fish.
And he put it into the soy sauce. David City. Mexican City. I lived there for six months. And as blown away by the culture and the kindness and the beauty of that city and the people who live in it.
Does anyone call you Ruth? And if so, who? No. I don't think so. Maybe they're really annoyed at me.
Where is your happy place? Right here with you right now. My 11 year old daughter is relishing this book. My 79 year old mother is relishing this book. I think this is a book really for everyone.
“And that's what I think is so special about it.”
I mean, who are you going to give this to for their birthdays for the holidays? Who on your list is getting this? Who is this good boy? Oh, who needs this book? Who needs this book?
I'd love to have it in library. You know, that would be the nicest thing. It would be in school libraries and so people could children. And adults could just pick it up and read it and be inspired to, you know, think that food could make them feel better. That they can share it, that they can create it.
And listen to the stories of people they might have thought was a great actor or a great writer. But oh, you know, this is how what food means to them. It's another dimension. One of the joys for me. And it was very early on was to hear Al Gore who was going to be president.
You know, he, he was an amazing vice president.
He gave us the movie, "I'm climate." And then to continue to truth. And I, just from the first time when he sent in his recipe. Because I think we did it over Zoom or he read his recipe. Was it there?
Is someone who has been the president of the United States. Telling you to take a ripe tomato. And put it in boiling water and then peel it very gently. And then squeeze the juice out of it. And put it in a frying pan in olive oil with garlic.
And I thought, this is like incredible. He's telling us how to cook, you know, a tomato. And this is Al Gore. You know, no matter he's writing the first chapter of his romanticy novel. Well, that was, that was very fun.
He basically made love to the chocolate nemesis. But that's another story. Okay, well, on that note, I think it's lunch time for us. Thank you. Ruthie's table four is proud to support leukemia UK.
Their cartwheel for a cure campaign raises funds for vital research. And more effective and kinder treatments for acute maloid leukemia. Please donate and to do so, search cartwheel for cure. Ruthie's table four was produced by Alex Bell, Robi Hamilton, and Zad Rogers, with Andrew Sang and Bella Selimi.
This is being an atomized production for eye-hot media. I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is Icarol. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations,
and the real work behind it all.
As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated,
“so you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are in your integrity.”
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to it, girl, with Bailey Taylor on the eye-hot radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series.
Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-explored pockets of F1. Including the story of the woman who last participated in a Formula One race weekend, the recent uptick in F1 romance novels. And plenty of mishab scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years.
Listen to no grip on the eye-hot radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This isn't eye-hot podcast, guaranteed human.
