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on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Hi, everyone. I hope you're enjoying your Saturday morning and your weekend so far.
And I hope this episode makes it a little bit better because it's about one of my favorite trees, the mangrove. I discovered mangroves in person when I went to Coastal Mexico for the first time. And I tell you what, I feel in love with these things.
They are amazing. Mangroves, colon, nature's best tree, I think so. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know. A production of I-Hart Radio. Hey, you're welcome to the podcast.
I'm Josh and there's Chuck and there's Jerry over there. So let's get to it while we're talking about mangroves. Everybody, mangroves, gather around. Well, we'll be talking about mangroves. My new favorite tree.
It's a great tree. It's a good favorite tree to have. It is and this is one of those.
“I think this is the second and probably final”
that was inspired by my recent trip to Mexico because we were surrounded by mangroves, literally surrounded by mangroves. And we couldn't get enough of them and riding the bikes round and looking in these mangrove forest.
And considering what it must be like to try and navigate through them, nearly impossible, I would say. Because, yeah, I mean, you see them in person. I'm sure, like just how dense these things are. And we're going to be talking about different kinds,
but really sort of the money mangroves are the ones that we're going to focus on. And they are just, I was knocked out just by how they looked. And I could tell that they were a remarkable wonder of nature and evolution.
And then after this stuff, Dave Roos helped us put this together after learning everything that they're capable of. It's just like what kind of tree is this? It's amazing. It's an amazing tree.
Like I said, it's maybe one of the best trees to have as your favorite tree.
Because there are very few trees that are this amazing chuck.
Man. And we're talking mangroves. And we should say, mangroves aren't necessarily like a species or even a family of tree. One of the other things that makes them such a cool tree
to have as a favorite is that there's something like 80 or 90 species of them. And they're not genetically related in every case. Instead, by all, just classify them by their ability to survive and even thrive in salty water
that in soil that has little to no oxygen, which are two things that most trees can't do. And that's just the tip of the iceberg and what makes mangroves so amazing. Yeah, but like I said, we're talking mainly about those
amazing trees that sit up above the water with this network of, you know, look like fingers to sort of propping up the tree, which are the roots. And they are woodland tree, also could be called a shrub.
And they grow in a pretty narrow area between, well, they're subtropical along the coastlines,
first of all, but they grow between literally
between the terrestrial and the marine environment
In salty, brackish water.
Yeah. And there's-- I want to say a lot of them. It's really not, though.
“I think they make up like 1% of the forests”
of the world, mangrove forests are, but it's still 85,000 square miles, which is a pretty decent amount of area for, you know, one kind of tree. It's about the size of the state of Arkansas.
And the largest mangrove forest in the world is at the mouth of the Ganges near the Bay of Bengal. It's called the Sundarbans. And that's where the Bengal tiger lives, which is pretty cool. Agreed.
They exist in a hundred and eighteen countries and here in the United States in Texas, Louisiana, and Florida. And I thought, oh, surely the Georgia coast so close to Florida.
Surely they've got some mangroves. Don't even try. Not quite. I did see some people that were like, oh, so mangroves. But it's not true.
It looks like the closest mangroves are about 40 miles from the Georgia border near the Georgia coastline. So I was really sad that we don't have our mangroves. That is bad. But they do have them in Florida and Louisiana and Texas
and in Mexico. That's right. And again, you said that they grow subtropically and check out one share that it was just today that I finally stopped and was like,
this subtropical thing is driving me crazy. Like it's above the tropics on either side. It's either above or below depending on where you're perspective, but it's not below. It's not below the equator.
And then I realized if you're on the equator from the perspective of the equator, it's below the equator on either side. So it's sub-tropical.
You've never stood on the equator.
I never have.
“And I think I should have been a problem.”
I've never been to Ecuador. Well, we should go sometime. We should do a podcast live from the equator. Yeah, and see if we melt. I know I will.
I would too. I'm melting this week. As far as the money mangroves that I was talking about, we're talking about red, black, and white. And for my money, I love those red mangroves.
Those are the ones that grow along the water's edge. They have those prop roots that, and if you've never seen a mangrove, mangrove, please just look up red mangrove. And they're called prop roots,
'cause they prop that tree up off the ground. They are fully, well not fully exposed, 'cause they also go into the water into the soil. But they are largely exposed and they are just tangled,
gnarly beautiful roots that, again, I can't imagine trying to navigate through a mangrove forest. You probably had to go around. Yeah, it can be really, really thick. Both above water and below water,
because of those roots. So those roots, if you see them, that means that it's low tide.
“High tide, they're usually covered up with water.”
But it's like you said, they prop the tree up. And so for that reason, because at low tide, you can see the bottom of the tree and it's above ground, there are sometimes called walking trees.
But they're pretty neat. And the red mangrove, as I think, anyone who knows about mangrove, there's seen a mangrove. Probably is what they're thinking of as a red mangrove.
Because those roots are just so characteristic and unusual, you know? Yeah, the black mangrove's are still really cool looking, because they have these protrusions coming up out of the water called new metaphors and just put a pin in this.
But they allow the plant to basically breathe.
And we'll talk about that later. But if you look at a picture of these, it looks sort of like almost like little just spiky roots sticking up out of the ground all around the tree. Yeah, almost like stalagmites.
Yeah. And I got that right too, by the way. It's right. White mangroves are, it's weird. I don't understand fully why they're considered mangroves
aside from the fact that they must still thrive in brackish or salty water and poor oxygen soil. That's it. But I guess so, but they grow inland and they have normal shallow root systems
like any other terrestrial tree. But they're still considered mangroves. Yeah, and I don't think I mentioned the black mangroves to grow a little bit further inland than the reds. Yeah, so if you are looking at a cross section
of the ocean hitting the land and going inland, you would see at the ocean or at the Bay or wherever. Red mangroves on the shoreline actually growing into the ocean depending on where the tide is. Behind them, you would have the black mangroves
and slightly higher ground. And then behind those, on the highest ground, you would have the white mangroves. And that's what it would look like. You put it all together.
Well, you have as a mangrove forest, also known as a mangall.
A mangall, which is one of the more amazing,
we talk about a lot of amazing things about mangroves
Mangalls.
But it's the only species of tree that can grow in salt water.
And big time, they grow, and it's not like they love the salt. We'll see in a minute, they have some great ways of getting rid of it, but they figured all that stuff out. But they can grow in salinity levels of 75 parts per thousand, which is about twice as salty as ocean water.
Yeah, that's pretty impressive, because I mean,
“where are they growing that twice as salty as ocean water, you know?”
I think that's just kind of showing off at that point. Well, I didn't know if like that inland water, like just accumulate salt or something. Yeah, I would, yeah, you might be right. Yeah, yeah, I think you fit upon it.
Okay, so they're not showoffs. They're just doing what they've got to do.
I mean, they're making lemonade out of the lemons,
that they were handed by natural selection for where they grow. So what about the salt? How do they get rid of it? So you would think like they've just,
they can drink salt water and use it, like, you know, terrestrial trees use water, not true. There's actually two techniques where they can either keep salt from entering their roots, or they can take the salt in and then get rid of it in certain ways.
And so that means that there's two types, secreters and non-secreters,
“and black mangroves are secreters, I believe, right?”
That's right. Those are the ones with a little nubby,
they look like sticks almost sticking out of the water.
They filter it out and they secrete it on the leaves. So that means if you see a black mangrove and you see some, you know, kind of chalky white stuff on the leaf, that is salt, like go, I don't know if I should say go look at it, because I don't know if that's dangerous, but it's salty, just trust me.
It tastes like salt and DDT, got it. Red mangroves, they're non-secreters. So they actually just don't allow salt to be taken up by the roots. Now that's easier said than done, because their roots are planted in the water, right?
There's water, they're taking up water from the ocean, from salt water. And what they do is they have cell walls that actually act through reverse osmosis. It lets water through, but it doesn't let solids through. Which is quite a trick.
I mean, that's something that humans have only recently figured out how to do. Mangroves have been doing it for who knows how many hundreds of thousands or millions of years. But they do it in part because they have this hydrophobic lipophilic material called superin. That really serves them well. That's right, it allows them to get rid of more than 90% of the salts in the water,
“which also means, which, better than I think about until just now,”
that they can literally tolerate, I guess, about 10% salt content. Yeah, I saw 90 to 95%, but yeah, that's still a lot of salt for a plant. Totally. Yeah, so they have at least adapted in some ways to tolerate salt more than other plants. But for the most part, they're just really good at keeping salt from being taken up by their roots.
I just find that fascinating. And I love how Dave puts these, he, he, his sections are labeled either Mangrove magic tricks or what was the other one, Mangrove superpowers, and they're pretty fun. They're both apt. They are.
So this is a magic trick number two is we mentioned earlier that they actually breathe through these roots. I think typically, you might like to think about plants as just eating up that CO2. Which they definitely do, but plants need oxygen and they need to get oxygen from the roots. And, you know, with a regular tree and a regular forest, they're getting that like through
the soil and these little gaps between the soil in Mangrove or Mangals, I guess you would say, they can't do that because the title sediments come in, and it's all waterlogged and compacted. So they don't have those air gaps that you have in a normal forest. So they kind of came up with a brilliant little trick to get around that, right?
Yeah. So the pneumata forest that black Mangroves have, those stalagmites that are coming up in spikes around them, those act as snorkels, so they stick up out of the water. And they're covered in these little cells called leneosols, and that's where oxygen exchange happens.
So they actually absorb oxygen through these snorkels, they get taken into the snorkel, underground, into the other roots of the tree, and used for aerobic respiration, which is converting food into energy, it's just pretty nuts. And pneumata forest actually is Greek for air carrier, so. Makes sense.
Pretty on the nose. Yeah. Some of those pneumata forest can reach up to 10 feet tall, did you see that? Yeah. I didn't.
I looked at a lot of pictures. I didn't see any.
That's all with my eyeballs, but I looked because I wanted to see that.
Yeah. I didn't see it either. It could be made up. So then you've got this. I don't think so.
Then you've got these red mangroves that we talked about for my money, like the money mangrove. And those proper roots serve the same purpose as the new metaphors. They, you know, like I said, they sit up on those long, sort of, curvy stilts. And they stay above water, like a lot of it stays above water, even at high tide at times. And they are also covered with those lentils.
And they did the same thing. They allow for that oxygen exchange to take place. Yeah. So that explains also why there's so many roots and so many pneumata forests that spread around these trees.
It's like if you dug up a tree of roughly the same size, it would probably have a similar sized root structure, maybe a little less. But you don't see it. It's all underground. This is above ground.
So it looks like a lot of roots, but it's not necessarily more than a terrestrial tree would have. We just don't see them. Yeah. It's like a tree that is dropped to trial.
It's exactly right. It's porky pig in it.
“Should we take a break at, mangrove, magic trick number two?”
Yeah. We'll come back with number three right after this. You know Roeldall, the writer who thought I'd Willy Wonka, Matilda and the BFG, but did you know he was also a spy? Was this the four?
He wrote his stories? I musta been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roeldall, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary controversial life.
His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans and he was really good
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That was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Play poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman and then he took his talents to Hollywood where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film.
“How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever?”
And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids? The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to The Secret World of Roeldall on the iHeartradywap, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the on-purpose podcast.
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Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the spirit dotter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish travel is said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. After storyteller and unapologetic aquarium visionary, aquariums is all about freedom
loving and different perspectives, and I find a lot of people with strong placements and Aquarius, like our misunderstood, a son and Venus in Aquarius, in her 7th house, spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it.
If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to this viewer dotter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. So Chuck, which mangrove is your favorite kind?
“Well, I think I've been clear, and they're teasing me, because me and my red mangrove”
tirades, to me this is the best part of the episode, and the most amazing thing that besides
and we'll get to carbon sequestration, because that's amazing too.
To me, this is not my socks off, that mangroves kind of give birth to baby ma...
I think the only reason you want to qualify it with kind of is because our mind rails
“again, accepting that that's what's going on.”
But that is what's going on for all intents and purposes that some mangroves are vivid to the Paris, meaning that it means live bearing to where they have seeds on their plants that they develop, they're about eight corn size. But then rather than the seed falling off and dispersing and then eventually growing into a seedling, something much more mind blowing happens with mangroves.
That's right. The seedling is actually produced on the tree itself, and they sort of keep qualifying it. They self plant themselves. Eventually, this thing is going to fall off. You've got to look up the video on the internet.
There are many out there where it shows these acorn-like things. They grow down to these sort of long aero, green aero that are pointing down, and eventually they just go, and they snap off, and they go straight down, and they either stick into the ground at low tide, or I saw them in two feet of ocean water just going straight through and sticking into the sand, and they plant themselves.
They do. They plant themselves in that sandy bottom, and then they sprout roots really fast. I saw that they can start growing roots within hours, which means that also if they don't fall straight down, if they fall and they land on their side, they can actually stand themselves up by growing roots on the ground facing side, and then grow roots on the other
side as well, which is pretty amazing. But what's even more amazing is that if they fall, they happen to fall at high tide, and
it's pretty deep, and they never touch the bottom in any way, they'll float along.
They'll go out to sea. And as they're out to sea, they're a little tree growing, like growing leaves, getting water from the ocean, and doing photosynthesis in the sunlight, and they can float around for up to a year before they make land and stand themselves up and grow roots wherever they land.
It's just unbelievable, because this was an evolutionary adaptation, because my first thought
“was, well, why doesn't the acorn like seed just fall into the water and float around?”
But it must have just not been able to survive, and got water logged and died, and adapted to grow on the tree itself, and get that little seedling started. Yeah, because the thing about this Chuck, a seedling, is a small, viable tree, has everything it needs to grow. So it's an individual organism, and the mangrove is growing the seedling on its tree,
on itself. That's gestation, because when it drops off, it's like, of giraffe dropping a baby out, like a year or four feet above the ground. It's the same thing, it's gestation, it's a live birth of a plant. It's nuts, man.
I love it. And the baby giraffe sticks, it's nose into the ground, and grows from there for months and months. And then some roots out of its head, and then you go. Let's talk about the mangrove a little bit.
We've talked about the fact that these forest are very dense, but it is an dense ecosystem that is dense in more ways than one. It's not just all these gnarly roots that you see everywhere. There are all kinds of fish habitats and wildlife habitats that exist in these mangroves. Yeah, one of the reason why these like root systems and why the above water parts of the
trees are all just so thick, like you're saying, it's so hard to get through, is because of the way that they drop seedlings right off of their tree, right around them. So these mangos develop into these really thick deposits of trees and shrubs above water and below water, because they grow so closely together. And as they grow, they migrate one way or another, or they just spread out one way or another,
sometimes toward the ocean, sometimes, behind them, sometimes to either side of the shore.
“That's how they grow, and that's why they're so dense too.”
And that provides a lot of protection for these habitats. They're all manner of fish. If you're in Florida, you're going to see Grace Napper in there, or you probably won't see him. Snook, tarpen.
This is pretty remarkable, the Goliath grouper, which is actually endangered, spends their
first six years in that mangrove before it goes to open water.
Yeah, and it's not just like a few kind of fish, like things like octopi, sharks, shrimp, mollusks, just tons of different kinds of fish. This is their nursery ground, because these roots, these tango of roots, provide a place for juveniles to like hide out of reach of predators and get bigger and bigger, because
It's also a very nourishing place for them to eat too, so they're really, rea...
as nurseries for all kinds of seed life. Yeah, and if you're talking about eating seafood, the commercial fishing industry, and
“this just sort of shows you how important these mangalls are.”
A one square mile loss of mangrove forests would lose about 275,000 pounds of fish every year, and then that's not even to speak of all the indigenous communities that rely on these fish to provide their sustenance. Right, and so that's just the below water part of the mangall.
The above water part of the mangall basically does the same thing, but for terrestrial and
arboreal animals like monkeys, insects, reptiles, birds, they make their home in their nurseries in those, the mangalls, too, the branches, the leaves, the trunks. Those are really, just as important for above ground animals, as they are for below water animals. Yeah, and you mentioned that bingal tiger.
This was also in the some darbens, right? Yes, and this is the largest single population of bingal tigers on planet earth, and it's only about 100 of them, but they live in these mangalls. Yes, and also attention, Kristen Bell, if you are ambivalent about mangrove forests, prepare to care, because in Panama, the pig me three toad sloth, critically endangered, by the
way, only makes its home in mangrove forests, sounds right.
So you got to care now. That's still watch that video for it in that sloth about once every two years. Yes, it's just one of the great human reactions to something. Yeah, and I remember how hard we were when we realized that she didn't touch it, even though you clearly wanted to more than she's ever wanted to do anything or like, but she doesn't.
She didn't do it, you know, it took good for her. That's pretty great.
“I think we can move on to some superpowers, right?”
Yeah, a mangrove superpower, number one, which is coastline protection, which is pretty important if you live along the coast. Yeah, this is a big one.
One great benefit of all those above ground, gnarly mess of roots that are everywhere,
and it just makes perfect common sense when you look at them is they make great wave breaks, any kind of wave, even like a synomic, is that a word? It is now, I think it's a great word. Right, synamis wave is going to be cut down big time when it hits this stuff. It's just going to, you know, just cut through and disperse it in a really profound way.
Yeah, because there's so many different like roots and individual things to bump into on the way to the shore that it's going to reduce its energy, which means that it reduces one of the pernicious effects that waves have on shore, which is erosion. And not only does it reduce erosion because the waves don't have enough energy to take stuff back out to sea, it actually has them deposit the sediments that they're bringing
to the shore in the mangrove swamps. And if you compare, if you combine that, I should say, with the really low oxygen environments that make up the monkey bottom in a mangrove mangrove mangrove mangrove. I guess you can kind of flash back to our coal, the mystery of coal episode where we talked to him about how swamps work like that.
So the mangrove swamps are very much like that as well. But then in addition to that, they have ocean sediments being brought, all the organic stuff being brought from the oceans layering with the monkey sediment that from the mangrove's falling into the muck, which means that they're holding on to a lot of stuff and building up soil as a matter of fact.
And much of that they outpaces sea level rises in some areas. Yeah, I mean, this kind of falls under one of their other superpowers is the fact that they are literally sequestering carbon.
“But I think that they add about, and we'll get to that in more detail in a minute.”
But in Australia, some mangrove or some mangrove and Australian Belize add about 10 millimeters or more of coastal soil each year. 100th of a meter. Yeah, I mean, that doesn't sound like that much, but sea level rise is coming in at about 3.2 meters a year. So in parts of Australia and Belize, it is actually outpacing climate change.
Yeah, that's pretty cool. And that's really, really important because the sea level's rise, if the soil level is rising, we don't have to worry quite as much about sea level rise there. But that's only in some spots as we'll see. Yeah.
And as far as the waves go, and we're talking about tsunamis, well, with just regular waves for every 100 meters of a mangrove forest that a wave will hit, its height can decrease by as much as 66%.
Wow.
And if you're looking at storm surges, which is one of the big dangers, it's not just
“the wave, it's that water surge, if you listen to our tsunami episode, there was a study”
that found that surge depths were reduced about a little over a foot and a half for every little more than a half a mile, 50 centimeters over every kilometer. And that doesn't sound like a ton, but if you've got a mangrove forest that's several miles deep, then we're talking, you know, 6 or 7 feet of less storm surge happening, and that can make a really big difference in flooding.
Oh, yeah, because the storm surge is what gets you. I mean, it can flood miles and miles inland, it carries all sorts of debris with it, it has so much energy, it can just rip buildings down, it's a real problem from hurricanes, it's that flooding, from the storm surge, but because those mangroves are there to absorb a bunch of that energy, it just doesn't have the opportunity to come nearly as far inland.
So mangrove forests, especially thick ones, save human lives, and you would guess animal lives, too. Yeah, and we've seen the sort of this bear out in very sad ways when mangrove forests have disappeared.
“I think it was in the Indo-Pacific region, in the 1950s, they used to have about five miles”
like deep of mangrove forest by the 1990s, they were depleted because of shrimp farming, we'll talk about that later as well, but basically, you know, human cause depletion. In '91, there was a cyclone that hit the coast of Bangladesh, where there were no longer any mangrove forests to cut down on that impact, and there was no buffer, and there was a big 20-foot storm surge, and almost 140,000 people died.
Right. I saw that they had a lot of those people died because they weren't, they didn't use storm shelters in addition to the mangrove buffer being gone, and that they had built the storms shelters chuck, after a 1970 cyclone that killed 500,000 people in Bangladesh. Wow.
Can you believe that?
Can you imagine a storm killing half a million people in your country or your little
area that's insane? It is. That's devastating. It did. It did.
It's biblical, you know? Yeah, they did some studies, too, with the tsunami in the Indian Ocean in 2004, and they found that the mangroves there were about 100 meters deep, and they at least helped reduce those waves between 5 and 30%. So that's a big deal, you know, six feet of storm surge, up to 30% of wave height, and
the initial rush in from the ocean is, you're saving a lot of lives in that case. Yeah. I mean, you saw how bad the Indian Ocean tsunami was, too, it just makes you wonder, like how much worse it could have been with the mangroves. So I say we take our second break, and we come back and talk about carbon sequestration.
It's right, AKA super power number two. You know Roldahl, the writer who thought I'd Willy Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Who is this before? He wrote his stories, I must have been. Our new podcast series, the secret world of Roldahl, is a wild journey through the hidden
chapters of his extraordinary controversial life.
His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans, and he was really good at
it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, because that was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt?
Play poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman, and then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney, an Alfred Hitchcock, before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever, and what
“darkness from his covert past, seeped into the stories we read as kids?”
The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roldahl on the iHeartranny web, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the on purpose podcast, my latest episode is with Hillary Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platin amartist.
Hillary opens up about complicated family dynamics, motherhood, and releasing our first record
in over 10 years. We talk about what it's taken to grow up in the entertainment industry and stay grounded through every chapter. It's a raw and honest conversation about identity, evolution, and building a life that truly matters. You desire in family like this picture, and that's not reality a lot of the time, it's
for people. My sister and I don't speak, it's definitely a very painful part of my life, and I hope
It's not forever, but it's for right now.
Listen to on purpose, with Jay Shetty, on the iHeartranny web, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
“Hi, this is Joe Interestine, host of the Spirer Dutter podcast, where we talk about”
astrology, nadal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible talk with men. After storyteller, and unapologetic, aquarium visionary, Aquarius is all about freedom loving, and different perspectives, and I find a lot of people with strong placements in
Aquarius, like our misunderstood, a son, and venous in Aquarius, in her 7th house, spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses and different places, but just an embracing of the isnness of it. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading
artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must-listen. Listen to the Spirer Dutter podcast, starting on February 24th, on the iHeartranny web, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast.
“All right, we had promise of super power number two, and we tease a little bit early, earlier”
I did about carbon sequestration. So we need to talk a little bit about what people are calling a blue carbon ecosystem, blue sort of referencing the ocean.
Yeah, it's basically the same thing like trees, inland, capturing carbon, and storing
them in their bits and parts. This is just coastal vegetation doing the same thing. And the thing is, like, trees, they're really efficient at capturing carbon and storing it, but because of our friend's fungi and rot, when the tree dies, that carbon gets released back into the ecosystem and even possibly back into the atmosphere, if, say, like a wildfire
happens. That must fear. That was right, but you know, how we mentioned before that with that soil that the water is basically that ocean monitor is just sitting on top of, it is not, it's just building up to that salty peat, and that carbon is not being released like it does in a terrestrial
forest. Yeah. And it's not breaking down. So it is a champion at storing carbon, not only good at it, but really good at it. Yeah.
It's like the due to freedlander of forests as far as carbon sequestration goes. I love judo freelander, we actually met him once, but I don't get the joke.
Oh, he always wore a hat that's a world joke.
Okay. And he was always boasting about stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. I love that guy. When we met him at a event with Jesse Thorn and Hodgman many years ago, and this was kind
of during his run on 30 rock. 30 rock. And this is when I was also wearing my last chance garage at all the time, which I haven't put on in a couple of years, and I hate to say so probably a few years.
“But I remember when I met him, he went into that face of his.”
He kind of peered up at my hat and that patch, and he went, all right, okay. Cool. That was a great treat to freedlander. I got the stamp of approval from the hat guy. Yeah, definitely the hat guy for his school.
But yeah, so mangroves are the champion of carbon sequestration so much so that they are four times more efficient than terrestrial vegetation at storing carbon, which makes them like a bona fide carbon sink, mangrove forests are. And again, it's because there's just no decay. There's no fungus.
There's no rot. All the stuff that all of vegetation that dies and falls down into the muck just gets stuck there and covered over and doesn't get a chance to break down. So as long as you don't dig up or destroy a mangrove forest and cut up the peat to use it as cheap fuel, you've got a really good carbon sink on your hands.
Yeah, to the tune of worldwide, mangroves account for about 6.4 billion tons of carbon that's
being held in check. That means when you do do something like you hint at it, it can have devastating effects for the world surprise surprise. If you cut down a mangrove forest, that carbon is going to be released. That's a question of carbon, it's slowly going to creep back into the atmosphere from
2000 to 2015, roughly 122 million tons of carbon, extra carbon were released into the atmosphere
Because of the destruction of mangrove forests and between 80 and 2000, 30 pe...
mangalls of the world have been stripped away and it is outpacing like the tropical rain forest destruction.
“That's mind boggling because if you just hear the figures on how frequently and how much”
rain forest is cut down, the idea that mangrove forest is outpacing and is pretty nuts, but apparently, me and Mar is the current hot spot for mangrove deforestation between 1996 and 2016, me and Mar cut down 60 percent of its mangalls just gone.
Part of the problem is that you can restore mangrove forest fortunately, we'll talk about
some people who do that, but it can take a while and sometimes when you restore some mangroves you put the seedlings in and a typhoon or a cyclone or a hurricane comes along and just washes them all away, so if your timing's wrong, it might take a very long time for you to restore a mangrove forest, so it's not something you want to cut down willy basically.
They are the biggest culprit responsible for 35 percent of mangrove forest loss and people love shrimp all around the world in Thailand in the 80s and 90s and other places as well, but especially Thailand, they cut down a lot of mangrove forest to make the shrimp worms along the coastline and then you've also got the seed level rise that's causing destruction, we mentioned parts of Australian Belize that those soil deposits are outpacing
it, but that's only in a couple of those places, it is not doing that in other areas. Now so that means that seed level rise is outpacing soil deposition there, I want to say one more thing about shrimp farming too, I looked a little bit into it and I cannot decide, maybe it deserves its own episode who knows. One of the other problems was shrimp farming in addition to a shrimp farm sharing the same
kind of land or a mangrove forest that occupies being desirable for shrimp farm, so you cut
down mangrove forest to build a shrimp farm is that when you harvest shrimp, you basically
have to refresh the water, so shrimp farmers typically just basically open a dam and let all the water out and that water is filled with tons of nutrients that overwhelm the carrying capacity of the ecosystems, the mangrove forests around the shrimp farm and you get what's called an algae bloom which sucks up all the oxygen, kills off all the fish and has just this devastating effect on the ecosystems surrounding it, so shrimp farming is really hard
on the areas where it takes place, not just from the shrimp farms themselves, but from what comes out of the shrimp farms as well, and there's just so many basic, good, best practices that could be followed that just aren't followed, that there's almost like a general coming out of the shrimp farming industry as far as I can tell that really needs to be fixed. It's almost as if they just wanted to continue to make as much money as they can before
they're regulated in some way. But I mean, what are you going to do if you try to regulate them at all, you've got a nanny state on your hands and who wants that? Yeah, and it's just one tiny fraction of the great amounts of harm that are happening to the ocean because of lots of things, but commercial fishing is certainly one of them.
I will say though, it's really hard to turn down shrimp on pizza. Is that your hand here something? No, that's from years back, I used to love shrimp on pizza. All right, talk to me more about this. What are we talking?
“You throw some shrimp on a regular cheese or is it like a barbecue pineapple thing?”
No, no, no, no, no. No, we're regular pizza, but you don't want to use just any shrimp, you certainly don't want to use jumbo shrimp, you want to use the little tiny salad shrimp because they cook just enough with the pizza. A bigger shrimp might still be partially raw.
It's going to be too big to eat. You put on the raw? Yeah, you just throw some of this. Oh, no, I think they usually come already cooked now, they think about it, but you just
throw a couple of handfuls on your pizza, put it in the oven and thank me later, basically.
Oh, man, I love shrimp, I don't know about shrimp and pizza. Well, now I feel bad about eating shrimp knowing how bad shrimp farming is. I know, it's, yeah, it's another wake-up call in it. Well, yes, and I've been awoken because I'm now farming my own shrimp here at home in a very sustainable manner so that I can have it on my pizza.
Ah, bathtub shrimp. It's right, it's delicious. We don't take baths anyway.
“Yeah, you mean he's like, why do you have an out-of-order sign on our bathroom door?”
Right. I'm still trying to figure out how to break the needs of you, and we don't really have a working bathtub anymore. So there are also invasive species that can totally wreck the health of a man gall and
The 70s in China.
They were trying to do the right thing.
“And I think there were conservationists that transplanted some marsh grasses that were”
from the United States there to try and slow erosion, but it crowded out mangroves. And then in Texas, they weren't trying to do the right thing. They, the vision game officials there, they said, hey, people like hunting this exotic Asian antelope. It's called a nil guy, I guess, an ILGAI.
So let's put them in Texas so people could hunt them and it turns out they love to eat mangroves. Yeah, so they're being deforested by the game that was imported to Texas to hunt. Which means I'm sure there's huge bounties on these things now too. Yeah, and that's funny how that all works out.
So there are people who are like, we really need to work on this. We need to get mangroves back and there are places where this is the good news. Integral deforestation globally speaking on average has actually stopped progressing and is now starting to decline. Yeah.
The deforestation is great. So people are, you know, kind of getting hip to the idea that we really need these things. They provide countless services for us human. So even the most selfish human can get behind mangrove restoration, right?
“Yeah, I mean, I think there's about 42% of the worldwide mangroves are protected now.”
Yeah. The number at like 92, oh, well, at 100, but I would feel much better if it was like in the 80s or 90s, you know, yeah, not only that, like areas that have been developed closely need to replant the mangroves that they cut down to build because they need them. Really bad.
You need mangrove buffers as we found whatever you can get is helpful. That's right. But there's another kind of clever financial instrument as they call it, called blue barns. That is a subset of green bonds.
Green bonds came around a while ago and these are basically if you have money and you
want to invest responsibly in a way that not only doesn't impact the environment, but can help the environment. You invest in a green bond or if you're really into the ocean, the subset of blue bonds, which were first introduced in 2018. Right.
And so I feel like you want to offset your emissions. And by a blue bond and all of a sudden you've just paid somebody to go plant some mango or not mango, maybe mango too, but mangrove forests. Right. Yeah.
A mango forest. It sounds delicious. Yeah. I'd be like, "Plain it in my backyard." That's right.
“I want you to plant it with my blue bond.”
So looking to blue bonds in green bonds, it's something depressing the other day when they were, I don't know what they were talking about on the news, but they basically said,
"If you have an IRA, you're supporting all kinds of companies that you would probably never
support in real life." Yeah. Definitely mutual funds. Yeah. Mutual funds to just say everything's all lumped in.
So they were trying to encourage people if they're able to to be a little more selective and what they choose to invest in. Well, there's a lot of sustainable mutual funds too that were very carefully selected. Unfortunately, that means the management fee is going to be higher, but if you care, it doesn't really matter.
Is it really a higher management fee? Yeah. Anytime it requires any additional thought or effort, the management fee just automatically goes up. I'd to click on three extra things.
All right. I'd to find out what these blue bonds were. That's my impression of a mutual fund manager. Yeah. Financial advisor.
That's your financial advisor. You're going to be wrong personally. I need a bit Burger King every couple of weeks. In the back. Yeah.
Where else would you meet? You got anything else? Yeah. Nothing else. Up with mangroves.
Up with mangroves. And since we both set up with mangroves, everybody, that means it's time for listener mail. This is a thank you from a Satanist. We had a great podcast that we must have put this on a select recently, I guess.
Yeah. Like two weeks ago. Okay. Hey guys, discovered your podcast in 2011 have been hooked ever since. You're informative, banter filled episodes, remained a welcome constant in my life
throughout college, adult years, and now parenthood, and what's helping me stay saying during sleepless nights with my newborns. When I saw the episode on Satanism, I guess I had listened to it previously. I was simultaneously excited and nervous. I would hope you'd give it the usual Josh and Chuck treatment and I was not disappointed.
Over the years, I've been given a lot of grief being a Satanist. People often assume that I'm a very devout Christian based on the way I look and often go from praising me to threatening my family upon learning that I follow the tenants set forth by the Satanic temple. By shedding some light on the true nature of Satanism, I feel that you've given many people
looking to the practice in a non-threatening way, and hopefully this will help people choose kindness over fear-based hatred when interacting with Satanist in the future, and thank you
For being bold enough to put this episode out in the world.
I'm sure it wasn't that easy, but this long time listener appreciates it.
We're friendly, Satanist, Donna. Thanks a lot, Donna. Donna? Satanist. Yeah, that was a good one, because I went back and listened to it, to QA it before it was a
selectance. This was a really good episode, but there was one thing at the beginning, Chuck, that now I wish we had back, because a couple of people wrote in, and it was that we see a way that the beginning saying, like, if you're a Christian, you probably don't want to
“listen to this, and people wrote in and said, "No, you should not have said that because”
there's plenty of people out there who should hear this and change their views on people who hold these views."
So if you go back and listen to that, just plug your ears for that first part, and then listen
to it through again. Yeah, that was 40-year-old Chuck talking, not 51-year-old Chuck. That's right. That's a weird number to say. It is.
Chuck, 51 is a weird number, and it's going to be a weird time in your life. I'm sure of it.
“Chuck, that's what I think I'll always say it is, you'll always be younger than me.”
No matter how much I want you to speed up the aging process, you'll always be younger.
You would have to travel to Mars and suspended animation, and I might just think you're on Earth for me to catch up. All right, I'm going to look into that. Thanks a lot, Donna. We appreciate that big time.
If you want to be like Donna, and send us some kudos, we'll take them. You can send it in an email to [email protected]. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, my heart radio visit the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
I'm Clayton Nackard, and 2020, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.
“But here's the thing, Bachelor fans hated him.”
If I could press a button and rewind it all I would, that's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here, this case has gone viral. The dating contract agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you.
This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young, listen to Love Trap on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, doubt the case of Lucy Letby. We unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023.
But what if we didn't get the whole story? What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe in right out, I think she might be innocent? Listen to doubt the case of Lucy Letby, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, it's Jill Interesting, host of the Spirit Jotter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Crystal Williams. It can change you in the best way possible, dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns and embodiment of Pisces intuition, with Capricorn power moves.
So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart, listen to the Spirit Jotter podcast, starting on February 24th, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
