UNESCO World Heritage: Preserving the Best of Humanity

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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

“There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and this is Stuff You Should Know.”

And this is a fairly rare addition where we do an episode that we decided to do within the last few episodes. We don't usually do it around that. Usually it's like seven to eight years. Yeah, this is a quick win.

And Julia turned this around for us pretty steady. I just made that up. Sure. But I get it. I think everyone knows what we mean.

But we're talking about UNESCO World Heritage Sites.

UNESCO standing for which I never knew.

I'm glad I know this now. The United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organization, who in 1972 drafted this treaty to preserve World Heritage as a whole, whether it's as we'll see a place or a thing. And they even expanded later into cultural processes and customs and traditions.

Yeah, and that's where this idea came from. We were doing our episode on contortionism. And we found that Mongolia was turned down for getting World Heritage Protection for their contortionist history. Didn't think they were like, what the age?

So we started looking into this. And it is pretty interesting. One of the things that apparently is a fairly common misunderstanding is that if you have like a heritage site like something is identified and labeled a world heritage site that that is no longer sovereign territory in your country.

It could not be longer. That's still belongs to you. But what's happened is that the world, essentially everybody is a member of UNESCO, has agreed to say like, we want to preserve this in your country.

It's yours. But it really, we're all agreeing that this belongs to humanity. Because it's so important to human culture. So unique that we need to preserve it, and it takes more than just one country to preserve things like this.

So we're all going to get together and take shared responsibility for this important part of human culture. Yeah, and also a little bit of protection. Like you know, you've got something valuable on your shelf there. We're all watching you. As you as you juggle your way through the room.

You want to leave it in mint condition. That's right.

“There's one quote here that I think kind of nails it.”

It's it's things that have outstanding universal value. So it's the universality of it all as far as, you know, needing to cherish and care for these things. And I think it's kind of a kind of a cool deal. I mean, some people might criticize it as a big sort of political thing

to get tourists, dollars, headed your way. But I'm not so cynical. I think it's actually pretty great. Oh, I do too. I think it's good too. I think it's both though. I think the ideal of it is also, I think that impractice lately.

In trouble. The thing is the idea that it is a outstanding universal value. I get that again is an ideal.

But impractice that is not always the case.

And I draw your attention to the Oost Dune Curkey, which is horseback shrimp fishing in Belgium. And if that sounds obscure to you, you're right, because only 12 families practice this still. That is a protected, intangible heritage.

That is not a universal value. Although it is super interesting, and I'm glad it's protected, because why not. But I just thought that there's a lot of different things that contradict the idea that it's a universal value.

Yeah, for sure. This all got started. Most World War II after the world got together and decided to wreck everything. Again, for the second time in about 30 years. And everyone kind of looked up and were like,

Geez, we lost a lot of museums and churches and monuments. And entire cities, sometimes or huge portions of cities are just gone. And maybe we need as a world nation to get together and sort of start caring for these things a little bit more. So the UN kind of led the brigade on this.

And UNESCO was formed in 1945.

“I think I said that 1972 was when the World Heritage Treaty”

or whatever came about. So UNESCO was around quite a while before this came around. So starting in 1945 is when UNESCO was formed. And they basically started a campaign to start protecting these places from a few things.

It's not always just like war that is definitely one of them.

But also human development and natural disaster. Right, for sure. The first thing I think they were really kind of focused on learning from like archaeology was a big thing they were into for a while. But it really started to take the shape that we understand it today in 1959.

When Egypt went to UNESCO and said, hey man, like we want to build this dam. It's really important that we have a reservoir of water. But when we build the dam, there's a lot of like really old like Egyptian Veronica era, dinastic monuments that are going to be underwater.

So can you help us figure this out? And UNESCO said, this is it. We've been waiting for this for 14 years. Yeah. They said, we need to raise some money.

So they got about $80 million together.

And said, all right, let's move these two temples specifically to higher ground. So they moved they disassembled these temples. Move them about 650 feet, which it was higher. And out of harm's way.

And that sort of like you said that just sort of started this idea of like way to minute, we can get together and make great things happen and protect great places. And that kind of continued through the 60s until 1972 on November 16th. At their 17th general conference when they adopted the convention,

the protection of world cultural and natural heritage, which culminated the center of all that is basically this world heritage list. Yeah. And there was one other aspect of that 1959 as one dam initiative, I guess. Dozens of countries like donated to make this happen.

This was $80 million in 1959. This is a significant amount of money. Egypt was really the only country that was going to benefit from this. Countries of Ireland in the world said, no, we want to help take responsibility for this

“because we think that these are that important.”

They transcend just Egyptian importance. Yeah, for sure. And that leads to the second part of that what happens in 1972. There was the Heritage List and the Heritage Fund. And that fund, you know, without money none of this really matters that much.

You know, it takes a lot of dough. Sometimes did do things like this. Yeah, for sure. Because, like you said, a lot of it's threatened in one of the big things. This preservation protection and restoration.

So that world heritage convention from '72 created the world heritage list. And now here finally we have reached like the actual modern incarnation of what UNESCO's largely involved in or at least known for. That's right. As far as the nuts and bolts of it all goes, there is the world heritage committee,

which is 21 member countries at this point that are elected for six year terms. And they're the ones that are sort of in charge of overseeing all this. The United States has been a member country before and not been a member country, depending on which politician is in the White House. You can probably figure that one out.

Well, no, no, that's probably not there are some surprising dates in there if you ask me. Yeah, but we're not in there now.

“I think when we when did we drop off 20.”

11. Yeah, but we were back on then back off again in like 21 right.

2018, okay.

I can't get my ears straight.

That's because of COVID. So, you know, if you are a call at hosting, but if you have a world heritage site in your country,

“you have to, you can't just say give us all the money and don't worry about it after that.”

You have to provide annual reports. You have to, you know, deliver reports on like how the property is the state of the property. Mm-hmm. Any concerns like moving forward basically kind of how things are going.

And if you're a member country, you get the whopping some of $4 million a year from the World Heritage Fund.

Right. And that is, I mean, some of that is preservation, but I get the feeling a lot of that is like just sort of functioning and identifying places and promoting your own world heritage sites. Yeah, probably paying for doses is a chunk of that too. Yeah, probably so. But also, if something happens, a cute disaster from human or natural causes, you'll get some emergency assistance.

“And then this is another big one that I think probably really comes in handy.”

There are experts who work at UNESCO who can train your staff, right? You don't have to figure, you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time. Be like, this is an archeological site. Let's figure out how to train you the staff to preserve it and explain it and all that stuff. If you can send them off to, I guess, New York and have them trained up to do those things.

Yeah, for sure. And tourism, it's a big deal. If you get one of your, if you are a country when you have a site, did you get put on this list? It's a big deal because people, I think that don't know. I'll tell you about this kind of look at it is like a seven wonders of the world list in some ways.

And like, oh, here's a place like like we got to visit before we die. Yeah, there's hundreds of wonders of the world as far as the world heritage list is concerned. Yeah. So originally Chuck, they were just like physical places and features that were on the world heritage list called sites. And they were divided essentially into two categories, cultural or natural.

And you can kind of generally guess what the criteria was for each. Yeah, like if it's a natural heritage site, that means there's just universal value, maybe scientifically or maybe even just aesthetically. You know, we're talking about the great barrier of Australia or Serengeti National Park and Tanzania stuff like that. And it's, you know, it's about protecting these natural wonders of the world generally. Yeah, and I mean, we just take for granted that the Serengeti National Park is like amazing, but the reason why specifically it was chosen is because it's one of the best examples of large predator prey interactions.

Like you just do not see lions chasing down anolo in Kansas, you don't see it unless the zoos going crazy. And that's one reason why it's protected it's basically the main reason why it's protected, but then there's also a intersecting thing too that it's also gorgeous.

So this fulfills a couple of things. It's biologically important to science, but it's also aesthetically amazing too.

Yeah, for sure. And this goes, you know, every single one of these things. And we're not just going to go through and list a ton of different places, but if you're talking about the Yellowstone National Park or the Galapagos Islands or like I mentioned the great barrier reef these all seem like pretty obvious inclusions. For sure. And they were probably included pretty early on in the list's existence. Oh, geez. So that's the natural site. There's also the cultural site, and these are essentially, you know, human made environments or structures or places of human occupation, where humans did something impressive, important, or it was just part of a larger culture.

“For example, there's acrossroads, and I think, oh, I don't remember where it was, but it was just acrossroads back on the in the like the third century CE.”

And it was just really important at the time. It doesn't seem more than important. Now, but it was and you want to preserve it because future generations can learn from it and experience it and appreciate it. Yeah, for sure. And it, you know, can also be a building or a sculpture, like the Statue of Liberty is on there under cultural heritage under that, but so is like Venice Italy. So it can be a whole city that's sort of an ancient modern, well, not maybe an ancient, but a modern wonder, you know.

And then it can be H&2, and then also like how the aesthetics and scientific importance intersect in the Serengeti National Park, that can happen in cultural sites too, like it can be where archaeology and intersects with, you know, humans, like making shaping the natural environment, like the co-oogi amounts are on the list.

Yeah, and when I said not each and I'm at Venice specifically. I see, I see. Have you been to this?

I've never been there. It's on a big time on the list, but I also just realize I don't know when all that was engineered.

I wanted to say like the 16th century, but it could be an ancient, it's not ancient, ancient, I don't even know what ancient means. No, I think about it. But it's, you're going to love it. You will love Venice. And when you do go there, go to Harry's bar. It's where the bulini was invented. Okay, lovely.

They say it's Hemingway seat, like at the bar, it's preserved, but their martinis are really, really good. They're outrageously expensive just because they know that you'll pay it, because you're a tourist, but it's still worth getting.

Well, maybe I can grow the beer back out and put some weight back on and convince everyone on the ghost of Hemingway and take that seat, finally.

Well, bring a multi-extra-toed cat with you. Or are they cross-eyed? What is it about those cats?

“Oh, I don't know. Are they poly-doctoral? I think so. There's some unique feature that Hemingway cats on Key West all share.”

Okay. Why to say it's an extra toe? I'm not sure. Well, moving on, we'll figure that out. Okay. There are total, total of 1248 world heritage sites right now. The vast amount of those are cultural. I think 78%, 19% are natural and 3% are mixed. And Europe and North America have almost half of them. They have 46% compared to Latin and the Caribbean, Latin American Caribbean, it's 12% Asia and the Pacific 25% the Arab States, 8% and Africa, 9% although we should say Africa holds 20% of all the natural sites, which is pretty impressive and not surprising.

That is cool. I say we take a break, but first I also wanted to point out that not all of these are, you know, just like up with humanity. Like they also preserve some pretty dark stuff too. One good example is the Navy School of Mechanics in Argentina, which is turned into a site of memory, a museum where they basically preserved the fact that this was a place where people were abducted, tortured and murdered by dictatorships in Latin America. And the 1970s and 80s. And this is a world heritage site because it's important to remember, people will do this. Like people will vote people like this into office and keep them there.

And those people can turn on their own people and you can be abducted and disappeared and murdered by the state that happens. That to me is like one of the big driving, I guess it drives home the point of the world heritage list more than some of these others. Right, to remember not just pretty things. Right, but you don't have to just remember the dark stuff you can remember all the stuff, but you can ignore the dark stuff, I guess is what I mean. Well said, just like Lord Vader himself. What do you say, like, come on over, baby, the dark sides feeling great.

“I think so. That was the line. Should we take that break?”

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All right, so we mentioned early. We're back by the way that UNESCO would eventually adopt stuff like oral traditions and performing arts and social rituals and practices and things like that. That happened in 2003 specifically. And you know, this was a very valuable ad, I think, like a skill set or a knowledge

or just some irreplaceable custom or traditional craft or skill or something that could be in danger of being lost. You know, if not for stuff like this. Yeah. And again, it can be 12 families fishing on horseback and Belgium.

I'll see that. What does that look like? It looks like somebody with a horse and a shrimp net on a beach. I saw a picture of it. I mean, I kind of figured that, but you know, I bet a shrimp are good.

“But I think this is, it's worth preserving too because this is important”

to like these people. It's not saying like, well, this is what America thinks is cool. Or this is what, you know, Zimbabwe thinks is cool. Like this is, this is important to this culture. There's a culture on planet Earth and this is important to them.

We preserve it just for that very reason. Plus also really what is supporting horseback shrimp fishing among 12 families and Belgium really costing the world to support you know. The great. One part about being included on this part of the list is that, and I think this is kind of cool,

is it can be inherited from the past, but it also is applied to a contemporary setting. And so that means, you know, it can't be the lost art of whatever if it's like truly not really no one is even doing this at all anymore. Like you can be de-listed and what we're going to talk about that in a minute. Not de-listed isn't de-edash, but de-edash.

Oh, you see, you know, that site. Well, no, wouldn't that a TV show? I don't know.

“But there's a really mean like burn blog or there used to be called de-listed.”

That was hilarious, but also really cool. No, I was never on that. But if you are included, that means this practice or this ritual or custom is passed through generations and communities and very community-based overall. Like it's recognized within that community and outside that community is something of value.

Kind of like the trip people. Just because it's interesting, you know? Let's talk about, we dug up some other ones. You wanted to just kind of throw a few of these out.

I found basically all these interesting movies to probably just pick some.

Yeah, I'll go with the bagpipes, Bulgarian bagpipe making and bagpipe playing. Apparently, it's a very big thing in Bulgaria passed down through the families for generations and it used to be like a father-to-son thing. Now they will teach all genders, which is kind of great. And then, you know, it's in social clubs, they teach it in schools and they're like, "We need to protect this."

And it is on that list.

Artisanal bagpipe making in France is protected.

“Turkish authorities protected sauna culture and Finland is protected.”

Gingerbread crafting in Croatia. And then it does get a little more niche, lowing cloth weaving and coat devour. Human tower creation, they're called castles in Spain to where people just stack up on other people. And then there's also an annual grass-moin competition in Bosnia, Herzegovina. And it's using a siph.

They're not just like riding John Deere tractors or anything like that. And it's exactly what it sounds like. It's a grass-moin competition. That's protected. Also, so is Yodeling in Switzerland.

Yeah, great list. Thank you.

“So check, I don't know if you said there's a danger list.”

Did you mention that? I don't think we have yet. Now, I talked about being de-listed, but before you're de-listed, you can be in danger. Yeah. And you can be in danger.

We did kind of talk about it. You can be in danger from armed conflict war, from climate change, from just a complete change of the surrounding area. And you can get your de-listed and danger is where this is the step before de-listing. And essentially, UNESCO steps in and says, hey, we need to do something about this because the site is deteriorating, or we need to figure out how to lift the Statue of Liberty 100 feet.

So that sea level rise doesn't wash it away. And there's two kinds. There's ascertained danger, which is like, this is going to happen. And then there's potential danger, like say, stuff coming from climate change, or if it's, you know, a civil, civil conflict is starting to heat up. And it looks like a civil war is going to break out.

And there's a heritage site right in the crossfire. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, one good example of something they might do is they are these national parks. And I guess they're all national parks in the Democratic Republic of Congo that was, they're all made the danger list between 94 and 97. So they, you know, kind of put up the warning flag in UNESCO came in with their fat bank account.

There were some NGOs involved that wanted to get involved and donate some money. And they had a four year rehabilitation campaign for these parks.

The second campaign, and this kind of goes to show how the international community comes together.

These are all in the Democratic Republic of Congo, but in 2004, the second campaign got funded from Belgium and Japan. They're like, let's take care of these places. Yeah. There's another site, the remains of Bamiya and Valley in Afghanistan is what it's called. It went from not on any world heritage list, immediately to the danger list.

“The Taliban back in 2001, blew up these two, I think, 10 and 15 story tall, cliff carved, I guess statues are released of Buddha from the 6th century.”

They were beautiful. And the Taliban blew them up by shooting them with shoulder, launched rocket launchers that were probably provided by the CIA back in the 80s when they were fighting the Russians. And this was an enormous thing. People are like, what are you doing? What is the problem here?

Is this part of this ethnic cleansing campaign against the Hazara people who live in the area? And so they're like, I guess UNESCO was like, right, we can't let anything like that happen again. Let's get in here and try to preserve this valley. And it was put on the danger list and they started a campaign in 2009.

Does this basically go in there and figure out how to move forward and keep this valley from getting worse off than it was?

Yeah, I think landmines there is a big deal. Part of their UNESCO getting about theirs is identifying and getting rid of those landmines first and foremost. Yep. Let's see. Everglades National Park?

Florida's treasure, that's on there. Very sadly on the danger list. Yeah, there's also like civil conflicts really target stuff or in danger sites like the Historic Center of Odessa and Ukraine is on the list. Ancient Aleppo in Syria is on the list. Yeah, that's a big, it seems like armed conflict in climate change are the two biggest threats to the world heritage sites.

Yeah, I think so. You know, we did talk about being delisted and thankfully that's only happened a few times because if you're deleted from the list. That means like that means you're probably done as a thing and that like there's no point in protecting you anymore because it doesn't exist. And one good example of that is the Liverpool maritime mercantile city was delisted in 2021.

Everton Stadium was built and it was basically kind of wiped all that out.

So they were like, well, there's no reason for this being on the list anymore. Yeah, the tower of London is not on the danger list, but it's on the pre-danger list for the same reason. The development that's going on in the area threatens to basically take away its natural or historic. I mean, identity, even being built around. They're not talking about knocking down the tower of London, but just building around it can change the, the, the built environment enough that UNESCO's like, it's done.

Yeah, sometimes it's very sat in this case in Oman, the Arabian Orics Sanctuary was delisted in 2007 that had a population of Arabian Orics envelope.

“And that, you know, that was decimated so much that population to such that I believe it fell down to like 65 of them in 2007.”

And I guess that was, and this was because of poaching obviously in habitat destruction, which makes it super sad. But I guess that was low enough to where they were like, alright, you know, no more protection for us. I know, and that said, because it seems like that's when they should swoop in and be like, we're, we're going to occupy this area, Oman. We are, this is no longer sovereign, Oman. Yeah, I mean, I think there are other organizations that do and protect species like that.

So hopefully they weren't just sort of left out in the wind.

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that they were on the danger list first, and then they just did follow through.

But that's, that we should say, it's not a, it's pretty dishonorable for a country to let one of its sites end up on the danger list. It's really worse to have it de-listed. So countries tend to work hard to get off of the danger list. And that does actually happen that happened in 2025 to three different spots. The rainforest of Otananana in Mediascar.

Abu Manah in Egypt, think that was the crossroads. And then in the old town of Gadamis in Libya, that was the crossroads. It was the crossroads between Africa and the Mediterranean.

“But those were all for different various reasons on the danger list.”

And those countries worked very hard and aggressively to address all of those issues and get them back off of the danger list. So it is possible to get off the danger list and certainly not be delisted. And usually countries who take this stuff seriously will work hard to do that. Yeah, you don't want to be on the naughty list. Exactly.

Earlier when you said crossroads, I thought, genuinely thought you were going to say the Mississippi Crossroads, where Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil. Do they have that one crossroads identified? I don't know.

It sure seems like it should be a world heritage site. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not sure if they actually had the actual crossroads or if it's more of a, not a pockerful, but maybe it is a pockerful.

I could be both. Yeah, or a femoral. Could be all three. Have we taken our second break? I don't think we have.

No, let's take it. It's perfect timing. Look at a 30 minutes in. Okay. We'll be right back.

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I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means. But I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through. And I know it's a place they come. Look for up and coming talent.

“If it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you.”

Which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much lock and ball. Mm. And he's like, just give it a shot.

He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall,

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I'm not big. Right. It wouldn't be that. There's a lot in life.

“Listen to thanks dad on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.”

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So check politics plays a huge part in UNESCO and the world heritage list. You would probably not be surprised to think because this is a bunch of different nations coming together.

And they don't always play super well together.

Or when they do play super well together, it's often like gaming the system. And that seems to be what is going on today with UNESCO and the world heritage convention. That it's basically been creeping slowly toward a way for countries to make more money through their tourism industry. Get some sights on the world heritage list. You can go promote it worldwide and bring more people to your country where they're going to spend a bunch of dramas.

Yeah, for sure. There is a professor of anthropology at Stanford named Lynn Mescal, who basically said it's entirely about political and economic gain at this point. Just a tool in a much larger arsenal of non, I'm sorry, of nation state politics. And you know, the politics of it all can't be ignored these days. It's, you know, there's an interesting thing that happens, you know, in terms of like.

Repatriation, you know, we've talked at some point here and there about like, you know, when there's plundering from wars and things like that. And all of a sudden that countries own things or at least have possession of them and place them in museums. They weren't there's to begin with like giving this stuff back. There's big movement for that. But there's also this sort of idea on the other side of like, well, we will take care of that stuff because it is in London or New York City.

Right. And we're not going to give it back to you. And that same sort of mentality has been sort of the same thing as sort of applied to World Heritage sites. I think a little bit where indigenous peoples are kind of moved out of the conversation because the attitude is like, well, you just don't know what's best for your stuff. Right.

Like if you're a bunch of Westerners coming along as tourists to tour this world heritage site that's of immense cultural value to this local group. If current people from the local group show up, they kind of push their other way by their face and they're like, oh, the way you're ruining the diorama. This took place a thousand years ago.

“We don't care what's going on with you today, even though you're directly related to this, I think is that mentality, right?”

Yeah, that's a good way to say it, I think, sadly. There's also like a whole, I talked about gaming the system. One of the ways that you can game the system is essentially withdraw, like the United States has done twice now in the 80s and in 2018. You can withdraw from UNESCO and this convention. But you can still nominate sites, including sites in your own country, right? So you're getting the best of both worlds where you can get those tourism dollars for getting new world heritage sites.

But if you need help with your sites because it's world heritage site, you can get other countries money who are doing the right thing and paying their dues.

Yeah, for sure, not a cool thing to do, if you ask me. The other thing that they've seen, I think, kind of starting in the like the 1990s it seems like is when countries are getting together and voting together like forming packs and voting blocks to either get listed or to block maybe a site from getting on the danger list, which we said that's kind of like being on the naughty list. Yeah, exactly. So like Latin American countries will frequently ban together and vote in one another's best interests.

“Or also, I think even countries that aren't members anymore say the US can basically be like, hey vote for us for this thing and you know, we'll make sure that we up our oil imports from your country by 10% or something.”

Oh, interesting. You know, so I think the more the more juice you have, the more you can get stuff done even if you're not a member anymore. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, like you said, this is big money. Like if you're included on this list, they will you'll be a part of their advertising campaign. And then you can also create your own around that, you know, touting inclusion, you know. Yeah, I can tell you that I want to go see them in no impolatial centers, increase a six Bronze Age sites that were part of the late Bronze Age collapse there about to be.

Or they were just on in 2025 put on so that's the tourism's working already. So you might not have known about that had it not been included, probably? Yes, I did not know the sites existed. Yeah, I'm sure they have a robust website with lots of pretty pictures.

So yeah, and that's basically like being there in person right, but it's free.

Yeah, exactly. Speaking of the danger list, there are a few sites that, you know, you can be removed from the danger list. That's the, that's the goal, I guess. Before being delisted and that happened last year, the rainforest and Madagascar, those, the ones that you're talking about.

“Yeah, they're not on the danger list and then that town in Libya. Was that where the crossroads was?”

That's the crossroads. So they, I guess, what do you do? Just raise enough, hey, or prove that you're actually protecting it in such a way? Well, I'll give you the example of the crossroads, the old town of Gamedy, I believe is what it is. Gamedy, scatter me, thank you. Their irrigation techniques were raising the water table and some of the very ancient buildings were in danger of crumbling from the water exposure.

So Libya went in and basically came up with different irrigation techniques that they taught to the locals, lower the water table and now the site is no longer in jeopardy and it's off of the danger list. All right. It's essentially just a question of the host country having the will to spend a few bucks to remedy the situation. That's, that's all it is.

“I wonder if if one member country has enough places like that make that danger list if there's any sort of maybe not even official penalty, but like hey, listen guys, you need to”

You got three on the danger list now, you need to get it together. It's a really bad look. It is a bad look. Kind of talking about the politics of this too, there's a really startling turn of events in 2020 where Rajep Erdogan the president of Turkey. Unilaterally said, hey, the Hagia Sophia, this part of World Heritage, it was a cathedral, then a mosque and now it's a museum.

We're turning it back into a mosque. And UNESCO is like, we didn't talk about this and Erdogan said it doesn't matter. We're doing that.

And this is like, I mean, this thing was built in the five thirties. It's one of the more amazing buildings in the world.

And in the 1930s, the a court in Turkey said, this is a museum. This is no longer a mosque. Turkey is secular and that's all there is to it. So it's a museum until Erdogan came along in 2020 and changed it back. Yeah, and you know, unilaterally decided this on his own. And UNESCO was like, hey, not only did you shouldn't have done this, but you didn't tell us you were doing this. And you're using this as like, this is a world heritage site now. You can't use it for your own political gain.

You can't try and carry favor with the Turkish Islamic Turkish Conservatives. And he was like, well, you know, what do you say? It's not a museum anymore. And we're not charging entry fees anymore. Yep. Was that as like, come back? I guess it was a comeback of sorts or a defense or something.

He's like, where you don't have to pay to get in anymore.

But that was 2020 and absolutely nothing happened. That's the other problem.

“This is a problem with almost everything that has to do with the UN.”

What are you going to do? Really? Like, I'm fine. I don't care about peer pressure, you know, the international community being met at me. That's all it takes. And there's nothing that can be done about it. Yeah, for sure. Let me see what else is on the danger list.

You mentioned the Statue of Liberty, right? As far as some of the big dogs. Mm-hmm. See, it works great. Yeah, great barrier reef.

That's been threatened for a long time as our reefs all over the world. Very, very sad. Great. Great. Great.

Midwifery? From Germany to Togo. Sometimes this can cross cultures. Yeah, these people. They should have been from like.

They should have been from like... They should have been from like... They should have been from like... They should have been from like... And they should have been from like...

And they should have been from like... And they should have been from like... And they should have been from like... Albania desire. That's how you got to do those.

That would have been great. Um... I called Tiki... Horsesbreeding in Turkmenistan. Yeah, I like that one.

Here's a good one. Saviche preparation in Peru. I'm all about that. I am too. You'll also like this one.

The Dia de los Muertos in Mexico. The Day of the Dead. Yeah, for sure. Hey, you know what? Here's a tip for especially for you.

Uh... And me and Emily. If you go... If you love that Saviche, you just got to make sure you got to say...

No Polpo. Oh, really? Yeah, I think we... You don't need octopus, right? Oh, is that what that is?

No, I definitely do not. They're too intelligent. Yeah, it's cruel. Yeah, we learn that in Mexico City. That the Polpo was the word.

So we're like, oh, okay. So that's what we need to avoid. So you say... Hold the Polpo. Yeah, or just get the...

The one without it. Okay.

Like I would never get to another country and say...

Can you not put this thing in there that you traditionally eat? Like... You can find a Saviche that's probably just fish or trampor's galop or whatever. Oh, really? I feel like I...

I take the bird king approach to tourism where I was like, "I'll have it my way." Oh. Oh, you got anything else? Oh, I got nothing else. This is a fun one.

I know... There's something I need nothing about. And now I feel like I know enough, which is our charge, is a show. To like talk a little bit about it intelligently around a dinner table. And to attend UNESCO World Heritage meetings and speak out.

Yeah, where do they have those New York? Yeah, let's go. All right. I'm sure anybody can just walk in.

“If you want to know more about UNESCO World Heritage,”

go check out some sites. You can tour the world from your computer again for free. And in the meantime, I think it's time for listener mail. Yeah, this is from Stephen Cook from Halifax, Nova Scotia. Okay.

Who visited the Cowloon-Wald City? Oh, cool. Uh, at least the park. Hey guys, visited that Cowloon-Wald City park this past December,

on our first trip to Hong Kong, and it's the delightful spot with sports facilities.

For nearby residents, some remnants of the original building foundations as a reminder of its past. And the one original building that is now a museum. That's the one we talked about. Yeah.

Plus, there's a special exhibit that recreates a streetscape in the community. Using sets from the 2024 film, Twilight of the Warriors, Colin, Walden, which stars Hong Kong action legend Samo Hong, as a local crime boss named Mr. Big. I guess when you're this big, they call you Mr.

The set recreates a whole block with a barbershop community to store a shoe repair stand and a fish ball making factory. With period props and decor, a visit is highly recommended. And Steven included a few photos, which are great. Oh, I can't wait to see this, because I looked all over for the exhibit.

And I couldn't find any photos of I saw mention of it at some point. Yeah, search search that email buddy, and it'll come up. Thanks, Steven. That's a great one. Yeah. If you have been to Cowloon-Wald City, let us know.

We want to hear from all of you. And if you have anything to say really, even high, right Chuck?

High and hello is a great thing to hear always.

Yes. You can send a via email to [email protected]. [MUSIC PLAYING]

“Stuff you should know is a production of I Heart Radio.”

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Listen to LoveTrap podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm EcoBoat. My next guest.

It's Will Ferrell. [MUSIC PLAYING] My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, "Just give it a shot."

“But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall,”

and it doesn't feel funny more, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hanging there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot in life. Listen to thanks dad on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I Heart podcast.

Karyn T. Human.