The Two First Namers Club feat Reuben Vincent & 9th Wonder

Yeah, it's about the music. Yeah, it's feel good. Yeah, it's his story, it's my story.

“Mostly his story, but the big story is generation X, his generation.”

It is told to us that we're not, we don't get along and we don't see eye to eye. And we don't have the same taste of music. And we don't listen. We don't that. And it's a generational war going on in the hip-hop.

And our relationship in this album, this proves all of that. We're at! Welcome to the Almanac Arap, the show that's not afraid to name names. I'm your host, Don Will, and today's guests are 9th Wonder Rubin Vincent. 9th Wonder is a producer, professor, and flat out North Carolina hip-hop royalty.

Rubin Vincent is one of the newest signings to his record label, Jamla. Our conversation covers 9th career, discovering Rubin, and how they are adding to the rich legacy of North Carolina hip-hop.

We'll get into that in a second, but first, I got to kick the ballistics.

Thank you so much for joining me from my presentation.

“So, he is honestly connected to 9th Wonder and more ways than you did.”

9th Wonder and we used to, he's too connected to hell, about her back. Now, I wouldn't say this if white people are around, but when it comes to hip-hop, certain stereotypes are just kind of true. Like, if you hear about a singer getting arrested, they're going to call him a rapper. And if you hear about a rapper doing something good, they'll probably call him a singer. And an MC trying out other genres is probably only one interviewer, two away from saying that they're more than just a rapper.

Also, a rapper named Waiyan Techflix probably isn't the person you want to ask about geopolitics. Alright, I think you get that idea, but here's another one. If you're a rapper that goes by your government name, you can probably rap your ass off.

Seriously, it's basically a rap name by law.

Rappers like Nas, Torre, Wallet, Fontet, and Andre of Outcast are just a few shining examples of this theory. Their names are also mononyms, which means they go by the actual name, sidebar.

“Did you know that A-Cons' real name is, I'm not going to try to read this.”

Kobe, please, just flash it on screen. Y'all, his full name is basically a sentence. In keeping with the theme of rappers who use their real name, here's a short list of people who were too busy getting good at rapping to come up with a compelling stage name. Sean Price, MC Paul Barman, two-poxycourt, Keith Murray.

Tom Limqualee, Will Smith, Kanye West, I know. Azalea Banks, I know, Joe Wellertis, Joe Budden, Asher Rock, Eric Servin, and Jay Cole. Honorable mentioned goes to Eminem. Okay, his name might be Eminem, but that's actually just another way of saying M and M, with the short hand for real name, Marshall Mathers.

As far as rap skills, no explanations need it there. This text, this type of, I need that'll focus, that's crazy. This guy can't put more, you know, the one. Because ninth one there, the other one is this dude. Even the foodies didn't bother coming up with fun rap names.

Lauren Hill, Wycliffe John, and pros Michelle, stopped short at naming the group and began focusing on a complete mastery of the crafted hand. Sadly, Tyler the creator, Megan the Stallion, Devon the Doo, Chance the rapper, Beneath the Butcher, and Comma of the Abstract, don't qualify because while they all wrap their asses off and have used the government name, the descriptor is the

disqualifier, see what I did there.

And, if you've got two first names, you are an absolute microphone minus.

Okay, it's gotta be noted that the second first name has to be a last name that sounds like a first name. Does that make sense? Well, even if it doesn't, it's my show and I make the rules, so it makes sense to me. Kendrick Lamar is a guy who flame Drake so viciously that he won a song of the year Grammy for a diss track.

Ironically, Drake's technically got two first names as well, but in this battle of the two first neighbors, Aubrey Drake Graham took the L. He can't rap, though. Maybe he's your rebrand as Aubrey Drake in this iceman era between lawsuits.

His albums descends tie rate and the house's burning are proof that he's worthy of the great

two first names before him. As if Isaiah wasn't enough, TDE re-uped on double first

neighbors and got Ray Vaughn to keep things kicking after Kung Fu Kitty left in a wait a minute. Am I trippin' or are having two first names sort of like a prerequisite for getting a deal at TDE. Now, I wouldn't let myself hear, but my name is Don Will. All one word, no space, so please stop putting a space in my name for the love of God and no weird capitalization either.

It's just capital D lowercase letters after that. The longest sort of it is, so two pocket core will Smith, J. The Pinkhead's all connected. You know what I'm saying? I connected it. Don, all I ask was for you to send me a script. This is the script. I mean, I gotta go.

One of the latest additions to this group of two first names is none other than Ruben Vincent.

A North Carolina MC who got a major rep for wrapping his ass off. Recently, he teamed up with ninth wonder for the joint album Welcome Home. Today, we tap in with both of them to find out how they linked up and get more backstory on their latest release. Check out the okay player shop for exclusive collectibles and limited runs. That shop dot, okay player dot com.

What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Almanac Iraq. My name is Don Will, and today at the table, I've got two of North Carolina's finest. Ninth wonder is a Grammy award-winning producer and co-founder of the group Little Brother. He's since gone on to start Jambler Records and become a college professor of several different colleges, the man who works hard as hell. We've also got Ruben Vincent. An artist who was currently signed to Jambler Records and fresh out the heels of his release.

Welcome home. Welcome home. Ladies and gentlemen, Ruben Vincent, ninth wonder. What up? What up? Thank you. So glad to have you all here, man. Yeah. This is, this is, I ain't seen you in a minute, man. This is, this is, this is a whole interview. Yeah. This is a nice interview. Yeah, yeah. It's a whole thing, myself. This is decades right here. Like decades. And I'm happy to meet you. We've been chopping it up for a

minute. You know what I'm saying? You're certain. But my first question is a question about this, this relationship. We got a eagle, an eagle, an eagle, an Aggie. How do you all work around that rifle remains? I mean, we got another Aggie at a table too, so I'm here. On behalf. You know, I just want to apologize to all the North Carolina anti-State University students who were seeing back the back 60 point victories against the, the Eagles of North Carolina Central University,

“I think one game was 62 to some. All right. Yeah. He's about to go. This is,”

I don't know what's going on, but I, you know, and then y'all coach is an eagle that I can't, the coach is Sean Gibb, and he, and what's funny is he and I came in to Central together, that's freshman, which is funny. Oh wow. So, you know, that is, you know, president, president, my man, Sean. In a way, you know, man. I just want to say one thing to that, Aggie Pride. My next question. My next question is directly for you tonight. All right.

I watched the one of your documentary many years ago, and I tapped back into it to that look, and research. Right. In the documentary, you said you're known as either Pooh, Patrick, Pat, Pete, or ninth. And I'm, I'm imagining some people call you professor. Yeah. So, my question is,

who do you resonate with most right now in this moment today? It's, it's always, Pat, man. I mean,

I came. I came behavior today to introduce myself, everybody is Patrick. Patrick, everybody. Yeah. And it's just always been that for me. You know what I mean? Like, you know, the

“beginning has become from, man. We never would thought we would be in this situation. You know what I'm saying?”

Like, we used to be on the message boards together. Yeah. And to now look up 20, 25 years later, to know we looked at in a different light by somebody younger than us. It's still hard for us to lose who we are. I don't know if it would have been the same, and we didn't, we wouldn't discovering music on the internet. The internet has changed the way, you know, artists relations and people relations are different. When we grew up, we were far apart from the Pete Rocks and, you know,

in L.L. Cooljays. They were over here. We were over here. The internet has brought it like this, right? So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's, it's brought the fan, the fan of the consumer, and the artists are very close together. So, for us, and especially for me, it's kind of hard for me to just switch over to be this one guy named 911 throughout the time. And knowing, I'm still pat that lives in North Carolina, who, who know people from anti, who know people from Central NC State,

“by blah, and when they see me, they don't call me names. They call me my name, you know what I mean?”

And so, it's kind of, if I don't move to another state, maybe, you know, I've got it to the whole

Everybody knows me as a parent. So, that's what it is. My next question is for you, Rubin.

What was it like meeting, night wonder, and then getting to know Pat? Man, first of all,

the first thing I thought when I met him was Yogi's talk. Yeah, I was talking about Yogi's basketball. Yeah, yeah. I was talking about Yogi's 13 at the time. You know what I mean? So, I'm just, you know what I'm saying, but it was so real to me because, and I just told him this story yesterday, and it which is ironically like another moment of like serendipity, you know. When I was a 10 years old and I just had started working on fruity loops and like trying to

teach myself how to make beats because I was a big kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like, my dad gave me late registration when I was six years old. You know what I mean? I feel like that changed the trajectory of just my whole like music taste. And I started like, okay, I'm going to try to learn how to make beats. Obviously, like I was picking it up because I was a fan of

“Kanye, but I remember Chris Brown had put out a mix tape and he had some night beats on there”

where he was rapping. And I remember I saw the YouTube video. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's online. It's online. It's the attention. Something to the attention of boy of the attention. It's something like that. It's something like that. But actually, he did three. But I remember he recorded a video of music video the one and I saw him on YouTube. And this time when I was like surfing the web, I found section 80 this year, like all this stuff, you know what I mean? But I was just surfing the web.

And I was like, man, this beat is hard. Not how I already knew who night was because of threat. And I, you know, fade the black was another trajectory change for me at eight years old seeing that movie. So I knew what threat was and stuff like that. And I remember hearing the beat, Chris Brown, I wrapped over and I was like, then I got to make a beat that sound like this. So my first beat on FL ever was trying to emulate a night beat. Granny was not as great as you. But I was trying to

emulate. So it was just to years later 13 somebody tweets him. It's like, I don't know this kid,

“but you need to check him out. I couldn't have planned that. You know what I mean? And you know,”

it just was like, whoa, and just for him to hear back and be like, yo, you know, hit, like shoot me a DM, you know what I mean? Let me talk to your parents, get you to come down here, record. It was like a, it was again, serendipity. Right. I mean, so it was like a closing of the loop in a minute. Yeah, I give you well for sure. And you've only wrapped, well, you've professionally been on this loop in this end. Yes. But had you ever had any other wraps? Yeah, definitely.

That's what we were someone other than that. So when I first started, it was Lil Rubin. That's when I was eight. Lil Rubin. Yeah. Then I got to pause you real quick. Lil Rubin. So there's a guy in the Dungeon family named Big Rubin. You could have been Lil Rubin. Big Rubin. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? That's rude. That's very true. But okay. Yeah. Lil Rubin. What age was this? You said, eight. Eight. I also got to pause again because I'm not, I want you to know that I'm not

speeding past the fact that the ages you're giving off with these milestones are preteen. Yeah. You're like a child prodigy at the table. So I just want the listening audience to know they're like, yes. Eight. I was watching he. Ten. That one. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then my friends were playing Pokemon and you know Dragon Ball Z. You know doing this in the playground. And you were home like I'm a little. I got MP3. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Did a monkey ball for real for real for real for real. Yeah. Back. So you said Lil Rubin. Lil Rubin. And then my mom's first husband used to call me Big Ben. Big Ben? Yeah. Like, come on, name's Rubin. I know you all do like Big Ben. You know,

he always said that. So then I went by Big Ben for a little bit. And then I went

by my initials R. E. V. Which was red. And then when I started putting music online, he was E. Saw the darn. And then yeah, that was that's my middle name, E. Saw. Okay. So I was trying to be on some knives. You know, I was in the ill-matic at the time. It was written. I was not no my field. So first thing to be doing. But I was like, you know, the dog sound cool. So I'm going to be E. Saw the darn. And I put the dollar sign. And I put the dollar sign in the

“ass because I was a fan of Joey Badass. So I was like, I'm E Saw the darn. You know what I mean?”

I'm bringing back the real. You know, that's that was my whole little thing. And then when I bet nice. Which was always a thought in my head. But I never thought people would gravitate to it.

Because of it just be in my regular name. Yeah. But I always thought in the back like,

what if I just went by my name? But then when he said it, I was like, okay, so yeah. So when y'all met, you were just, you were going by E Saw the darn. Yes, yeah. And knife was like, moving. Yeah. I was like, dawg. Like, go by your real name, man. What do we do? I mean, this is, I had never worked with the artists that you know, it was so many, you know, cash. And I talked about it. President cash, about the way. Oh, my leg was jammer. We talked about it all the time.

As far as meeting somebody that you know, everybody we meet, they do music with and they

But with him, you know, it was something. It was like an open book. You know what I mean? Yeah.

“I was already in the education. I knew what it was to be around young adults or, you know,”

it was young adults, you know, in college teaching college. But I knew what it meant to have an impression on somebody, a positive impression. And so I had an off day. I was on tour in Germany. Well, actually ran through the old tour in Germany. And I was, we had an off day in Berlin, Germany, random. I'm in, I'm in, I'm in my hotel room and I'm looking through Twitter. And I see this tweet. And I didn't need to shake this kid out. I have no dog in his fight.

Now, I have no dog in his fight is the reason why I clicked on it. Because most of the time when you

click on, well, somebody said, check my, it's check my man's out. Check out my man's, check out,

but, you know, I get all kinds of DMs. You know what I mean? Like, from everybody that check out their loved one, who makes music. This dude was like, it's this 13 year old kid.

“You need to check out. And I know he said it's definitely the me, because I'm thinking, well,”

if you send an estimate and you heard it on your own and you want me to check out, that means the caliber of this kid's lyricism got to be somewhere. You know what I mean? Then you're going to send your no. No, no. And I don't like the colleague. They just are not going to send me anything that's outside of my brand. Right. Outside of the brand. Yeah. Outside of the brick. Yeah. Pretty quick, Rick. Outside of the brand. So, you know, I

clicked on it. And I'm like, what? Like, so, in his rhyme, he said something about Kooji rapper rock him. And I'm like, this is a joke. You know, like, it's like, I guess, yeah, I before him. And I'm like, man, come on. So, I said, it's the end of that show. Reach out to the kid. So, I did. He answered back. And I said, next thing I said is what's your parents? Where's your parents? And he said, he said, and he was like, I'm going to get my mama right

now. So, he put it on. And I was like, you know, I'm going to be in Europe for another week. But, you know, a couple of weeks, bring them up to the studio. And she brought them up to the studio. And it's funny. It's so wild. The night she brought them up. Mercer was there. Mercer was that we were recording final adventure. Okay. And Mercer was there. And she brought them in. And I'm like, did you know who Mercer was? Yes. Okay. Yeah. I was, I was studying

already. All right. Yeah. I just wanted to look like the gravity like, but I should have known. Yeah. He's going to get on me. And so we're in there. And so it's me, Mercer, cash,

“Ruben, his mom. And, you know, you meet little kids. Some little man, you know what's going on?”

And I was like, I said, you want something, you know, whatever. Like, you know, because I'm going into, it's not necessarily, it's an artist. It's like my nephew came over. You know, you want to make sure, you want to make sure the child is, like a kid is comfortable in your presence. Right. Like my, yeah. My daughter's, you know, my daughter's not 21 and 24. My, my eldest daughter and him are born a month apart. Yeah. So I'm like, as a father, you see,

you see a kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm like, you know, and I still, I still do as a kid. It's a kid friendly environment. Yep. I've been there before. I can have a test. Yeah. And you know, man, it's funny because, you know, Black thought was there

like back in September. He started smoking in the studio. And I told him, I said, you are the first

and only person. It's ever smoked. You're only doing it because you're Black thought. Yeah. It was any, you and Snoop could probably be only other people. Yeah. Anyway, so, you know, I'm like, you want something to eat? Yeah. Man, can I have some strawberry, and this is quick, it's the pop talks that we like. Me and Kevin, like, okay. Uh, let's go get this man. It's in my, you know what I mean? So yeah. So then there's mama, you know, his mama's

Rubin is a lot better. I let him tell his story about him being a librarian, but his mom, he's going to talk to you for a second. I said, yes, ma'am. I'm saying, yes, ma'am, me and his mama's same age. So, so we going back and we born a month apart. Yeah. So we're going to the back and we're talking. She said, and she's looking at me like, I don't been through this before. I've talked to people like you before or I've talked to people that wanted to work with my son.

She's dealt with the rap leader. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The rap leader. So anyway, she's like, do you think my son is that good? I was like, I know he's that good, right? And I'm also speaking

So I'm looking at it from two different angles. I say, I know he's that good. I said, now, I don't know how much money he'll make when this game, but he'll make some money out of this

game. I promise you that it could be a million to be 100, he's going to make something. And she said,

okay, well, as long as he doesn't say, it's like my penis on the record, I'm okay. I was like, you know, we don't really do that here. I mean, like, you, not like in the now. And so we got started. I, you know, we took care of her accommodations in the hotel right of the street. He got started and then we can, he recorded nine songs on his own. And we recorded the first on extra, to restroom, we were like, I walked out of control room. I looked at cash.

I said, man, he ain't breathing. He just wrapped it. And I'm like, man, this is great. And he

“recorded nine songs in a week. Did you sleep? After they left, like, you know what I'm saying?”

I might have watched some cartoons in like two one o'clock or something like that. Because my question is, as an, like, I know that in those type of situations excitement and adrenaline takes. Oh, yeah, my adrenaline was super high. And I could only imagine as a child, like, you're adrenaline being super super high. Oh, for sure. I'm like high off the top, top, top. It's not very, it's very, and anything is, it's funny. It's funny to even hear the story now. I'm, I'm a Kobe fan, right?

I'm a big Kobe fan first. You know, just because my dad was like a big Kobe fan. But our resonate with LeBron's story, just because of LeBron being like, you know, from a kid, you know what I mean? He knew he was going to basketball. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, he was coached and, you know, like, you know, really was doing this since the kid, you know what I mean? So anytime I watch a LeBron documentary, I feel like our resonate and he's

a Capricorn too. Like his birthday is a day before mine. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, yeah. So it's,

I always see the similarities in that. You know what I mean? And obviously, on a different level,

because we, like, this was a kid friendly place, but another person is Wayne. You know what I mean?

“And those are like, you know, but that's how my story was. And it was like, I'm grateful. He didn't.”

He says it, you know, himself, but now looking as a mode, I'm grateful to him, cash everybody at Jamla. Didn't look at it like you're about to turn you into a child star. Right. You know what I mean? Like, it was really development. Because even with from that point until, like, you're getting signed to Jamla. Like, like, you're first, like, the, those few years were development. It was like, it was like, it was like, you go home, work, a couple months, nine goes out. Yeah. Then you come back and do more.

And like, so you got to see and criminally how he was growing and changing and got to like, give him some tutelage. But my question is, uh, your mom keeps coming up a story. Your dad keeps coming up a story. Like, I want to know about just that support network. And what it was like, you know, I'm saying, like, having parents that support your dream at that age. Because there's a lot of parents who you know, like, what's African parents said that. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about that a little bit.

So one thing I'm grateful for is, you know, my papa's not perfect obviously. You know what I mean? Especially even me being a young man knowing like, you know, the back history. But one thing I commit my dad for doing is my dad and mom. I'm the only child for them. But they obviously when they got married after where did you know how to send that stuff. But he's not a, he's not a father. I can say that was like, just f my son. You know what I mean? Like, when I was four years old,

“he used to pick me up in this blue catalog and pay, play Na's J 50. You know, and that's how we bond it.”

I don't think he thought like, yo, my son is going to take on rapping and be a rapper. But that when he would pick me up on the weekends, that's how we bond it was through hip hop. You know, I mean, I'm sure you choosing to do hip hop. He's like, oh man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure like him seeing this is just like, yeah, for sure all the time, all the time he comes to all the listening joints, he comes to the shows and stuff. And then my mom, my mom, it's plenty in my aunt

was telling me a story yesterday. She was like, when you first came out, your mom was like,

he's going to be a doctor. You know what I mean? And then, but by the time I was four or three years old, riding around my dad, I fell in love with rap. You know what I mean? I remember seeing the first time, the first rap I was seeing that I was like, wait, you can do that. It was ironically bailout. You know what I mean? I had two older cousins who lived with us. They were like 15, 16 at the time. And I'm four or five years old running around with them. And they're in love with bailout. You

know what I mean? But I'm like, oh, this little kid rapping? I could do that. You know what I mean? So once she saw that I was interested in music, my mom just pushed me that way. You know what I mean? I'm like taking me to the student. She didn't understand it. You know what I mean? But being like, okay, I'll take you to the studio. As long as you're not cursing and doing this and adding, your grades is good. I'll support, you know what I mean? So I have to commend both for them.

And I'm glad you brought up bailout because that reminded me of the point I want to make when you were talking about a group of events of the name. Like, he had to grow into whatever

It's a lot different than being like, big band. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Like can you imagine being big band right now being like, man, I got to figure out how to get back to being a Rubin.

Yo, Fred, it's cringe and it's dope because like people always ask me like, why do you

“choose your real name? It's like I couldn't be nobody else for myself. I would lose my mind, honestly.”

If I was in here and it's like when I turn on the camera, I have to be for the lack of better terms, big band. Yeah. And then when I get off his Rubin again, you know what I mean? It's like, and it also makes the music personable where I don't have to do a persona or acts like anybody else and just be Rubin. Yeah. But you do have your persona. You have your Ruth of Andrew. Yes, Ruth of Andrew. I'm saying Martin Luther King. Martin Luther King. Yeah,

Ruth of Luther's Carter. You know what I mean? You said Rubin, Vince Carter, Rubin, Vince, Van Gogh. You know what I mean? It's interesting. Yeah. I'll put it. Yeah. I want to move on a little bit. I want to talk a

little bit about education and how that factors in. Okay. Nine. You were a history major, right? Yes.

And in a lot of ways, what you do is a musician and educator is preserve history. Yes. So I want you to talk a little bit about your studies and the education in general that helped influence your trajectory. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, how did you ever think that like majoring in history with

“result in you, like teaching the history of music in the way that you do? No, I think, you know,”

you're saying he's a Capricorn. So am I. I think with us, if we're passionate about something, we want to know the most about it. Mm-hmm. Right. We believe in circle of competence. And within this circle, we're going to know everything about what we're passionate about. It's circle. Everything outside of circle, we're not insecure enough to ask and say that we don't know, right? But we're so much in our own world that we just find what being here. Hip-hop was my

world. Music was my world, right? Yeah. The education side comes from the fact that my mom, who's still alive, breathing. She is, she was a kindergarten teacher for 46 years, right? And so I grew up. All my mom's friends is her co-workers or teachers. That's all I knew. And then I went to the same elementary school, my mom taught at, you know what I mean? So now you, you had to be on that. You know what I mean? I mean, luckily, I mean, luckily for me,

you remember in elementary school, we used to do a Christmas time, we used to do these fundraising, we were going around, I said, like, I don't know, decorations or something. You can go by people with your parents, you're traveling. By my son, son of chocolate, you know, whatever. Yeah. I won all of them. I won all of them, what's going on in the middle of the middle of that. So, I mean, but this is my, my village, so to speak, was teachers growing up around the city,

right? So, I was always, like you said, stand up straight and just, you know, just really get into

education. Yeah. Even if it was happen, stands. Because the thing that, like, I was telling you of camera, I've known you for a long time. Right. And then researching for this interview and prepping, like, that's when I discovered your history in education, like, like, like high school, like, going to college, seeing you become a teacher, become a professor at college, like, in my mind, it's, it felt logical, but it didn't feel like I was like, like, after seeing the progression

of it, okay, this makes complete sense. The fact that he went up here, like, you know, like, talk a, what's the guy's name that brought you into the, well, the first person that brought me into the education is this few people that brought me to the education space. This guy named Coleon Wright, who was a schoolmate of mine at North Carolina Central, who told the chancellor at the time what I was told me that I was going around, is how I went down. In Raleigh Durham,

there are, we have this thing called North Carolina Teaching Fellows. Everybody in every state has one, right? And so, a lot of people that I went to high school with became teachers, okay? So, now, this is 2004, and you know, all you have, by my teacher, I want somebody to cool to come

“talk to my students. Well, I just did a Jay-Z record of this. So, now, who was cooler?”

Well, it was cooler. So, my man from back home, Darrell Piggett, he was like, man, that pat, man, come talk to my students, man. I'm like, do what? Bring the terrain tables, man. Do some cool for me. You know, he, the young student, young teacher. So, I went and did that, I did that a couple of times. My man, calling on found out about it, when he told the chancellor, the North Carolina Central, the chancellor, the North Carolina Central, Dr. James Amherst at the time,

approached me for coming to teach, and you and his rap business, I go to talk to James Amherst, and he's like, you have a salary, and I would like what? And so, then he says, you know,

So, I started teaching, and with the crazy thing that helped me was, you got to look at it,

I've been talking to 18 to 22 euros for the last 20 years. So, now my 18 euros that I had in 2006 are not 38, and I'm seeing them in public with children. And in most people I age, they don't understand, in the 18 year old in 2006, in 18 year old in 2014, in 18 year old in 2020, and in 18 year old in 2025, ain't the same 18 year old. We all like to group them all into like this one box of thinking the same way. Technology has changed, social networking has changed, social commentary

“has changed. So, you know, that has helped me way more understand this relationship, right?”

Because I'm not just like a better term, the old, I may be the old G, I may be the elder,

but when you talk to me in your young age, it's not like I'm some parent, I don't know who,

Ghana, who is that, I don't know who, who is trippy, in early chop, I don't know these people, I don't talk like that, you know, I have to be in it, but I also understand how they receive music, how they learn, how they look at the artists, what's their qualifies, all of this stuff, and that's where I am now, which went through a lot to making this album. And just trying to mentor him over the last, and shot the young guru, because this was a group and cash,

this is a group, effort, yeah. We're going to touch on guru in a minute, but Rubin, you didn't, you left school, right? Yeah, to do music, how did your mom feel about that? So, sorry, like, you know, absolutely, it's good art, but so my mom was like, you know, me, I knew this is what I wanted to do from, you know, I remember when I was 13, they pulled me into the side of the, it was like, yo, you can either make this a hobby, we let you just come

up to the studio, if this is what you want to do for the rest of your life, you know, we'll help you, and he was like, well, go home and think about it, are you new then? This is what I wanted to do, but my mom, yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know what I mean? But my mom was like, the one thing she

“wants for me is to go to school, she was like, you have to go to school. She tells him that too.”

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I went to all my life, I grew up in a, you know, predominantly black neighborhood, right? You know what I'm saying? I was like, poverty, you know, chicken neighborhood, but it was predominantly black, which was a lot of culture for me. But

which also allows to my first ever project, I put out when I was 16, when I around the same time

I met ninth, my mom and her first husband had split, and the deal was, you pay the more, get she paid the bills, and you pay child support for my brother and sister, and just make sure, and he did some, because, same for everyone, guys, ask, yeah, I want you to put a car on, I don't even know what's hurt. Ask the fans and start taking care, he did some, start taking care of somebody else's family and stop taking care of his own two kids and stop

paying the mortgage. So, months went past where they weren't getting the mortgage paid, and my mom didn't know. So, you just said something about murders, right? I'm saying all this to lead up to something. But, uh, the, I had did a verse for a murders on brighter days. They last taken, went after the murders hurt me, and the day it came out, I was walking home from school, and it was a foreclosure, no reason I'm doing. I just got chills, crazy like a movie, and even better,

the album came out. Well, I was walking home from somewhere, I don't think it was school, but it was also my birthday, December 31st. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so then we moved, that's, so then we moved to Mars part, we moved to a different school, which ended up named Mars Park, and in the school, it was a culture shock, because the high square went to before was rocky river, it was like blacks, Hispanics, you know, a couple of whites, but it was more that. Mars Park was predominantly white,

you know, it had a good percentage of blacks, but it was predominantly white. So when I started going up, a lot of the songs I was making was talking about, you know, systematic racism, and you know, just how the system is, police brutality, y'all have that stuff, because it was what I was

“seeing at school. Um, and then, you know, 9th was like, yo, you should name it Mars Park,”

and you know, who's watching Stranger Things at the time, so we think it around Stranger Things, but then I had tied it into like, you know, me and my friends being the kids and Stranger Things,

you know, all of that stuff. So when people go back and listen to that project, which I also didn't

curse on, it's about that. You know what I mean? And me going to Mars Park is just all that culture shock,

“but again, my mom was like, you have to go to college. So I was like, okay, I went to this Mars”

Park school, because we moved, my mom wanted me to go to a good school. I got to go to a HPC, I got to go to a HPC. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, you know, I went to, I went to ANT for a year, major, um, and it's funny. I did, I did register for Central, but I ended up choosing ANT. Well, you know, he didn't even love ANT, so. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, I went to ANT and I majored in business

information technology, um, freshman year I had a 3.5 GPA, um, so I was on my, I was on my

scholarly, but after that COVID happened, you know, after my freshman year, okay, COVID happened.

Okay, so I went back home. And I, I was like, man, I'm in this house. We don't on school. And I couldn't go to the studio because of COVID. So I was like, okay, I'm going to take $200 out of my, uh, refund check that I got, and I'm going to buy equipment. I bought jeans and pizza with my rear-view. I bought jeans and pizza. I bought jeans and pizza. How definitely bought clothes. I'm not this smart. I'm going to wear jeans. I'm going to wear jeans. I'm going to wear jeans. I'm going to wear

jeans. Yeah, so I bought equipment and I started to record at my house, a focus right, I bought the focus right there. It came with the pack with the love, you know, in the microphone. Yeah, so, um, I ended up doing that. And before I went off to college,

Ninth had got me a MacBook. So I was like, okay, I'm going to use this MacBook to record.

And I ended up recording a lot of stuff that people heard on love this word at the crib. Oh, wow. And then bringing it two ninth and bringing it to everybody before I brought it to Guru. But that year, COVID happened, I recorded a lot and I was like, man, I don't know if I want to do this school thing anymore. You know? Yeah. Well, COVID and everything happened. And so when I went to LA, I went to LA for a week and I ended up staying out there for two months because Guru just was like,

yo, stay out here, you know, ain't nothing else going on. And I stopped showing up the class online, but I did not tell my mom. Um, so that semester, I still got my homework done, but I was showing up to the zones. I just do my homework, turn it in and go do rap stuff. And then after that semester, I didn't go to the next semester. I didn't register for classes, nothing. And I didn't tell my mom, but around that same time, Ninth had called me, I was working. I went back to Charleston,

I was working at a fitted-hat store and another serendipity moment. I'm literally the day before I was like, man, school, COVID happened. I don't really want to go to school. I'm at this fitted-hat job, getting $10 an hour, working 20 hours a week. Like, I ain't really making no money.

“And I was like, man, I really just want to focus on rap. And I remember I was frustrated. I closed,”

I was literally, um, clocking out, closing the door because the guy came with a kid was like, yo, close the door when you're done. I'm closing it. I click rock, and Ninth called. He's like, yo, I'm like, what's up? He's like, I'm not telling anybody, but Omar Grant, the president of the organization at the time, just call me about you. We want to sign a deal. We want to figure it out. Don't tell nobody. We're going to go up the paperwork. We'll figure it out. So for six months,

we was going through the paperwork. I did not tell my mom and I was not showing up for class, not going to class and nothing like that. How hard was that for you to hold from? Man, because I'm, I'm assuming you're mother have a close relationship with that type. Definitely. So if anything, I would imagine not telling you, showing up the class. You probably felt bad about that. But you also have this, like, this gift to give. Yeah, and I'm like, and you're like, I can't tell you. Man,

and it's crazy. So this is how she found out. I was going to surprise her with the contract and show her, like, look what we did. She called me one day. I met the gym. I'm like, hello? Yeah, Rubin. I'm like, what's up, mom? She's like, did you register for class next semester? I said, you know, she said, why haven't you? You have one week? I said, I think I'm going to focus on music. She said,

“what? I said, yeah, I think I'm going to focus on music. She said, wow, what do you mean?”

What do you mean? You can't go to school and focus on music. I said, no, my thing is, you know, You know, I think if I just fully fled to a music, it's gonna work out. Oh, Dave, just think about music. Dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude,

You need backup plan, but I was wrong with you and she was snapping on me. So I said, I let her go off and I said, well of course all I would be focusing on this music if I had a rock nation deal on the table. And she said, what? I said, I was trying to surprise you, but you owe me it's passing on the phone, but the go off for me and tell me you gonna kick me out the house and all this stuff, if I wanted to do that. So then she was like, how long has this been going? And so.

Stay educated. Yeah, you know, stay informed. Don't you know, my mom gifted me. The Michael mix out of biography when I was 13 years old around the right before I had met night. So this is like my mom, my brain was opening around this time. So she's always been an advocate for books. My mom's got books all in the house and stuff. So I just became a book nerd because of my mom. You know, I'm saying even my Pimminship, my mom used to be harming me about like. Don't have terrible handwriting, you know what I mean, stuff like that. One thing how you do everything exactly. So, you know, she was just like always, you know, I trust you, you know, I believe in you, just stay informed and don't forget to continue to educate yourself.

So that brings me to my next question to see if you have some more questions. Are you gonna go back to school? I actually do want to, but I want to do it. You know, obviously when I'm solidified and you know, the money is good enough so I can just pay it off and finish it. So your mom's gonna see this, so she's gonna buy you going back to you. But I will say this in your defense of that decision. You couldn't predict the better.

“This is basically college for sure. This is business for sure. This is learning in a different way. You know what I'm saying?”

Absolutely, but thank you for bringing up jam because that brings me to my next question. All right. So, what is the jam diversion of a chaining day? Is it like a Zulu nation love a medallion? You know what I'm saying? Is there a chaining day of jam loss?

You know, you know, Black Jedi Zulu and Jammer have crossed pollinated, but everybody that's in jam loss is not Zulu and first person. Okay.

No, man, I don't know what it is. Everybody that we told that's signed to Jammer, we've told them a different way. Everybody's story is different. There's no stage. You come on chaining day and nothing like that. Even with him, you know, he came by the studio at 13. We didn't sign him to be 16.

“Right. His voice changed, of course. It went deep on, you know, and I'm like, okay. She's voice deep now, man.”

What's going on? We're doing all these old supernova songs. And it went from there. And then, but I also, you know, I told them I said, man, we talked about this all the time. When you said about him going to school and his mama told him to go to school, I also told him to go to school. Now, when he dropped out, I'm thinking, his mama's going to call me. You told my son to drop no, because he's in your care. Exactly. But, you know, I, I want to him to have his middle school years of the middle school kid.

I want to have his high school years of high school kid. Although when he put out Myers Park, still started to change a little bit, because now he getting calls from Swiss beats at 16. You know what I mean? Yeah. And a beat. We got a beat from Swiss. Like this is, we had a whole group chat. They were staying on beat for the third child prodigy in child prodigy because Swiss was a young one took. Right. Exactly. So every time him on his own, you know what I mean? We put out Myers Park. And I told him I said, man, go to school for one year, bro. Just, just go for one year, at least to go, just to see what school is about.

And because you know you've been in school before, man, it ain't about the books. It's about the people that's there in the life long experiences that you have.

“I said, man, you got to, you know, let's do that. And so that's what it was. And, but now there's no gentleman like changing that, man, anything like that.”

I always tell people, a lot of people don't know, Ruben did not sign anything on paper with me until we got the rock nation to do it.

That's eight years. Now, once, once my relationship with rock nation further became bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. Now I have somebody to do, you have to sign something. But in the early days of jam, it was like, you come here on your own. You can leave on your own. I don't, I'm not the person to, oh, I'm whole your muscles. We go ahead and you got to do this and I like not. You want to leave. You can go do whatever you want to do because North Carolina is not a place where it's like, all we have is the music industry.

You know what I mean? We're raised a different way. All of this stuff and it's like, sometimes life takes over and sometimes you say, I don't want to do this no more. And that's fine. And I'm like, well, I cool, you know what I mean? For the ones who have left jimlins and I don't want to do this no more, man. But it's all good. I appreciate it.

And this is this what it is. I never thought I'd be a label hit, you know what I mean? I didn't want to have a record label on it first.

Yes, it's wild to see you as a label. Well, I'm saying I'm gonna go front. I didn't want to do it because I'm doing it well by the way. I'm trying, bro. It leases the situation where I didn't want it because you have to get up every day responsible, making somebody else's dream come true.

But at the same time, you wake up every day saying, hey, like, I have to make sure this person, this person, this person, this person, this person, this person, don't get off track because I see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know it's possible. You as an artist might not. And I have to navigate with artists to stop listening to their friends, family. Everybody has not.

The one thing artists do so much is listening to people who's never done it.

Yeah. And it's like, it blows my mind to the happens and not get it. People, your loved ones and your family want the best for you. At the same time, I'm trying to like, just keep tunnel vision, keep tunnel vision.

“It can happen. It can happen. It can happen. And if you walk in the direction, I believe in law of attraction.”

I believe in the universe and serendipity. If you walk in the direction, it can happen. And he's been walking in the direction, this has been eight, not even 13, eight. I don't know if I'd have been able to have this situation with this music with, because a big, another big testimony that is of this album. And I'm learning this while we're doing interviews. Yes, about the music. Yes, feel good as a story. It's my story. Mostly his story. But the big story is generation X, his generation.

It is told to us that we're not, we don't get along. And we don't see eye to eye. And we don't have the same taste of music. And we don't listen. We don't that. And it's a generational war going on in the hip-hop. And our relationship and this album, this proves all of that.

You know, I never made that connection to it right now.

I made it this, do I? Because again, I was telling him while we were talking, I was like, I'll camera. I'm like, you know, like, I didn't know he was so young until recently. Right. Like, the way that he rhymes, the polish, just the level of professionalism. He's like in this, like, late 20. Like, like, like an older guy. And I'm like, oh, this dude started when he was like, young, young, that's where the polish comes from.

But the generational, closing the generational divide a little bit on this album is a beautiful message. It's, it also, it's also going to show all the cast my age that is more of him that exists. And if it's, it's, it's one of him that does it. It's more than him. But there's also kids that's eight with younger doses of age that want to hear it too. We just have so much of a bad taste in our mouth, man, when it comes to, man, the young generation don't know that.

And all it want to hear is this and all it want to hear is that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's not true, man. It's not true. It's not, I see it all the time in my classes. I see them with him. And he's speaking. I'm going to say to add to what he's even saying. You know, a lot of people when they hear my music, be like, man, I ain't know you was 24.

Which, you know, I obviously respect and I appreciate because, you know, it definitely is a compliment to me.

“You know, I think, you know, just the depth and, you know, the intention that I put in the music.”

But I remember my first project, Love Is War, pitch four, get a review on it.

And they was like, ain't no way a 22 year old is talking about all this stuff. And I was like, um, how the different world thing is. Yeah, I was like, yeah. And I was like, how old is, how old was to pop? How old was nice? How old was outcast? How old was these legends that we look at as the old Gs now and their older. But like, when they were in their prime and doing these records, they were my age.

And they were talking about things with them. They were talking about things with intention. I think because of the current change and, you know, what people allow to deemed to be popular. They've removed the thought that a 24 year old could even think like this. But like, he said there's so many of us out in his world. Right.

And I'm just being myself. Like, I'm not even trying to force like, you know, I'm saying,

“Well, I tell people all the time, I can't even force it. You know what I mean?”

It's just me being me. You know, I will say that pitch four has a history. I'm saying that to camera. I'm taking out of my back, pitch four has a history. And if you don't know, I'm talking about Google pitch four. But I want to get back to some, you know, jam the business. You both share the relationship with young Google, your own separate relationships.

He's an integral part of the jam the family and you work pretty closely with him as well. Young Google was one of those dudes that, for people that don't know who he is. He is literally his name. He's a Google. He's a master. He's a connection maker. He's a connection maker. He's an electrician. He's everything, an engineer. But I want to know, like, like, what's a jewel that he's gave both of you?

Because I know that you, he brought you in to do to work with Jay Z. And then you transfer their relationship to Rubin, where he's working with you. So what's like a gem or a jewel that gave me love? Google was the first person to talk to me and have a full conversation with me about

I called him one night, I was watching an award show on this award show.

“I ain't gonna say which one but it was some weird stuff going on.”

He's just like 2007. I've only been in the game technically on a mainstream level four years. I count from Jay Z to that's four years. So I'm calling Guru. I said, man, are you watching this?

He said, nice. I'm about to put you, take you out of my associate box. I'm about to put you in my friend's box. And he taught me the difference between having a friendship in this game with somebody. And having just a associate, friends in music or a socialistic thing in this thing. You know, both and moving, both my mother and father raised us.

You know, Guru went to Howard. You know what I mean? We both went to an HBCU. It's a lot of similarities in those three. Guru is a nerd about so many different things.

People don't understand how much of a nerd he is about stuff. And I don't want to try to take that the wrong way. You know, there's nothing bad. Passing it about what he loves. He's passing it about what he loves.

And he just comes from that particular coffee. He says all the time. Man, if you was at Howard with us, man, you would've been hanging with us. And he's right. Everything about DJing and producing and the stuff he was doing with music.

I might even got started earlier than I did. Because I didn't start the Jay Z record. I did when I was 28. We started a little brother when I was 26. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I started when I was 27. Yeah, yeah. So it's a Guru man.

It's just, he just always told me, he's like, no, this is getting weird, bro.

Which side of you on? And I'm like, I'm what you know. Well, you add up. And as we, we have gone from, you know, bringing me up to meet Jay for the first time.

Um, him, there was a, there was a, there was a September of 2003. Me meeting his, he has four children. His youngest two children are twins. I remember going over his house and he was had them on the couch. Both of them trying to, to sit in them both up because it was like three, four months on the couch.

And now they're both like, they, they, they 22 bro. You know what I mean? And so that's, he's one of my, not in light on the, in the game.

“He's one of my best friends in life now, you know what I mean?”

And so he joined with us. He's the director of operations for Jammer. And he's joined with us. And Ruben was with me at North Carolina with us in North Carolina. And then he went out to LA with Guru.

And it's always me and him on the phone.

Whatever Ruben was going through whatever. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. If me and Ruben have a disagreement, we get on with all three of us going on the phone. Talk about it.

Yeah. It's always a thing. And, but that's one of the things I learned. So I learned so much from that dude, man. And vice versa.

But I learned a lot. Yeah. The same goes. If you're the smartest person in your circle. Find another circle.

Back. Back. That's, that's the heavy way to end it. And that, and that question. So what about you?

What man? Just to even piggyback off of what he said. Like even we do like the three way phone calls.

Guru always started off like, "All right, we brothers."

And we're going to argue, we kick you like brothers. And we go eat food like brothers. We're going to argue like brothers. We're going to argue like brothers. You sound just like this.

Yeah. And to be real, like, I took that into like even my cooped up world, which is like all of my young guys. You know what I mean? We're all of our crewers from our parents from West Africa. We took on that name.

So like, when we have a disagreement, it's still, we're going to go get food afterwards. But if we mad about something more, we disagree about something. We all go sitting down and be like, "Yo, I don't like that. All right, we're going to talk about it. All right, cool."

You know what I mean? But I learned that from them too.

“But then also too, I remember one time somebody I ain't going to say who it was.”

But somebody was going through something in the media. And it was, you know, just working out a lot of information that they just probably recently just found. And he was like, "Rubin, I'm going to tell you something about being in this industry." He was like, "You got to move with stealth." And you got to be still.

And you know, I was like, "Sheesh." Like, and I've heard him say that to me too before, like, just being still. But the way he said it, he was just like, "Yo, there's a certain level of knowledge that you're going to obtain. Just being around us and being in the game and seeing certain things. But certain things is not for everybody and certain things are to share."

So you got to be mindful about what you say and how you say things. And then another thing too, you know, I've been taught, you know,

Like, cash and which is on the other side of the camera, nineth guru.

“But I remember when I was living in LA and I'm very grateful”

because you can go out of LA and get lost, man. You know what I mean? I've seen a lot of weird stuff when I was out there. But because I was wet guru, I was very much protected. You know what I mean?

I've been the part using guru-made calls like yo. You all make sure you all take care of my young boy. He ain't about to be doing no. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah. He's a person? Yeah, you know. But it also like, you like, he's passionate about stuff. So he put me on like, we'll wake up before we start recording.

You know, he's telling me about a Mary Baracker. He's telling me about Stokewood Carmichael. He's telling me about all of these, you know, legends and, you know, not just in the game of music, but just in black history and putting me on so much that I've now intaked all of this information and it's stuff that I now go and find my own stuff and go and do research on it.

About Marcus Garvey and you know about this person and all of this stuff is just, you know, because he's so passionate about it. He's sit like our wake up in the morning and he'd be already at YouTube with his cup of coffee Washington and Mary Baracker speech and breaking it down for me. Or even my outcast with the song.

He's not mainstream. The verse where our angels like me and everything around me. He's like, you know what I mean? But I knew it wasn't mainstream, but Google does this thing where he's listening to a record and he will stop it at every line and break it down for you.

And that even helped me as a lyricist. You know what I mean? It's stuff like that. So those are some gems that I can say I got from Google. You know, we're not going to stop the gems right there because I'm sure you guys will learn stuff from each other.

“Like what's something you've learned from or about each other?”

I got one. This is the big quote. You know, he probably said to himself. Big quote. All right.

Be careful. Get that lower 30. What does it? Be careful.

Put your step on because you never know a legacy tattoo.

I learned that quote from Harry by the font. Yeah. I damn got that. Yeah. He told me that to my foot.

He told somebody that we were in all of the meeting. He told the person sitting beside me. He was a wealthy, really famous actor. He told his person. And he pointed his prison.

Watch the tools you step on. Because you never know the legacy tattoo. If it froze me for much. Yeah. I didn't know what.

I don't know. Wait. Wait. It made you like go back into your mind library. Like what?

It was happening. But it's also a thing where like that's one of those lessons that it sounds like common sense. But when you're really, like, aspiration, trying to go around, you know. Sometimes you might not pay attention to what you step in. And he's like, and also another thing I learned from my face is discipline.

And just also his integrity when it comes to not being a part of the fluff. You know what I mean? And just being able to be like, yo, I'm over here. You know what I mean? Yes.

I'm a successful producer. I do this. You know what I mean? I'm a legend. I am with all of that.

You know what I mean? And to be who he is and even we in New York and people come like, yo, it's nothing. Still be respected and people from anybody all the way from Anderson Pack to little yati who you know respect knife. And he still stands on integrity and also being selfless.

You know what I mean? And being able to look out for other people. That's some stuff I learned from knife. Well, yeah, what you learned from Rubin? And I actually learned it through this album.

knife. You can't quit. Before we recorded this album. That's in chill. Before we recorded this album, you know, I had long conversation with cash and just my team saying,

man, I got about two, three more years and it's done. I don't know if I want to do this anymore. Not necessarily making beats. I always do that. And not necessarily DJing.

But the race, running the race of getting a record heard and all of this stuff,

“the rigmarole you have to do to put out an album.”

Right? I think one of the people that has totally figured that out. Completely is my brother, the alchemist. He's figured it out. Yes.

Totally says forget the industry. I'm going to do this myself. Right. And so, but he has worked with this artist in this artist. It started.

What's different from me is I have a label of artists that I need to work with.

And put them first before anybody else.

But after a while, I've been running Jammer for 15 years. I'm tired. Jammer and along with other things. Yeah. I'm doing Jammer.

I'm doing music. My three things are Jammer. Music where education and basketball. Grass roots and basketball. And in particular.

And I'm, bro.

And we had a long talk about it.

And I'm like, bro. After this hit. Come on. I'm, I'm done. You know what I mean?

It's over.

“Like, I'm just, I'm going to get a label of cash.”

My daughter, who's 21 years old. Um, now, who's 90%. She's born 90% hearing loss. She was cochlear implants. She makes beats.

She made the beat. The hymn verse and raps the rap doll. Oh, wow. And she got a deal. Her and this kid, things like, I got a deal with fat beats.

They put not a album. And, you know, I'm like, I'm going to give it to her. And let her and my son and my other daughter, right? What's her, what's her, artist name? Jada.

Jada, okay. You know, look out for Jada. And so, so I'm like, you know, I'm like, I'm done. We start working on this album. And it's so good.

I'm like. [laughs] Yeah. And it's, you know, for, you know, I just, And I was telling him, "Well, every time I try to step away from this game, something happens, I said this in 2016, we have in 2017, Bill Worth. I said this 2019, well, in 2019, threat to society with two chains. I said this, every time I try to do this, and say, "Man, you know, I'm just, I think I've done enough." And I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've learned it from him every day, and I've

- No, I'm running over, bro. - Yeah. - And they won't. - It's not over. - As a friend and as a fan, it's not over. - Yeah, I'm saying. - Like, there's so much more in the tank.

“And there's so much more you have to offer.”

You know what I'm saying? - I know man. - Because Ruben has third world. - I know man. - So, tell me about third world. What exactly is the crew and how does this expand on the world that you're building for you?

- So third world is a creative company.

I always say it's a creative company.

Just a creative, it's not no other rappers, but everybody else in the crew has a creative outlet that aids to all of us. So, I have Johnny Kane, who is my DJ, but also he is a fashion designer, graphic designer.

You know, he does, we, me and him sit. He has many hats because me and him sit. We're the like idealizes of the crew, like we sit. And the album cover for Welcome Home, me and him sat and came up with that together.

I know what if we get a flight jacket and we get an air burst on the back with you and night, that's the right brothers. You know what I mean? Like the odd first flight, y'all this y'all first flight, you know what I mean? Me and him sit and really come up with all the ideas together.

Nuke is the OG of third world. He's the member, he's the first member in the creator of the name. So Nuke is my older cousin. Nuke is 9, 9, 8, 9, 10 years older than me. I'll say, 8 years older than me and when I was little, when I first started rapping, he used to record

another artist who was from, if I'm mistaken, I think somewhere in South Africa, or at synagogue or somewhere over there. And they were older than me and they were ripping it running because he was like trying to manage him and stuff.

And he was like, yo, all of us, we throw a world. All of our family come from a throw a country. We're going to take the name flip it on his head. We look at the world from a third perspective. So when I was little, I was like, whoa, that's a hard name.

But it never went past that conversation.

So when I got my deal and 9 for them was like, you need to get a LLC. I was like, okay, my crew is going to be called third world. I was like, every of my favorite rappers had a crew.

“And I was like, yo, Nuke, remember that name?”

And I was like, you doing anything? He's like, no, I was like, we got to use that. So Nuke is, he does film photography. No matter what. And a lot of my film pictures Nuke takes.

And he's also a creative director. We have, um, we have Abdul. Abdul Yates, who's another one. My cousin on my dad's side. But he's a stylist.

He's also a teacher. He teaches at a school. And he's also a works in the medical field. But he's into styling. And he also has been producing.

Um, you know, he's, he knows that. He got him on the way to go producing. But I'm gonna say it because I know if he's gonna do the lead work. He's gonna get there. Um, and then we have Jelani, Jelani Maxwell,

Um, who's actually was born and raised in North Carolina in the 2005. But, you know, he became a brother to us. You know what I mean? And we took him on and he's, you know, a creative director. He actually just did the art gallery in Greensboro.

Um, he's a painter photographer, graphic designer. (laughs) All of that. And it's, it's us. You know what I mean?

And then we have, you know, we obviously we added. Keylin to the team who was also my videographer. You know, he shoots all my videos. And, you know, we, we just been ripping it running with that. You know what I mean?

I'm Johnny Kayne. Yeah, John Kayne, yeah. That's dope man. You, you, you're building a unit. You're building a squad and you're building, like, you're helping people

for a bit of their dreams in the sound. We're like, native tongues. Yeah. Yeah.

But, Alisha, you're gonna be in five.

Yeah. It just reminds me of that, how that feels. Yep. And pan-Africanism.

“And what does pan-Africanism look like in the United States?”

Yeah. Yeah. Next question. This is for sure. Question for you tonight.

When you're sampling, do you ask for permission or forgiveness? Forgive me. [laughter] I'm gonna leave it at that. But, I'm not meant to be.

[laughter] It's, I mean, you know, pin-on with the red coming out of it. I mean, if it's coming out of the major, maybe release, I'm... make great relationships that, you know,

we have two Marvin Gates samples on this album. Two. And so, I know to do that is, you know, controls and deals with the Marvin Gates thing. So I'm like, you know what I mean?

No, but then no seriously.

You know, having those relationships means a lot. And to be able to now, I believe in sampling the now. We used to didn't believe in that before. And sampling the present. Or sampling something 10 years ago or above.

Or whatever. So I've done that a few times. I did it with, um, on when I did Duckworth, I did it. And I sample hiatus coyote. So I just call hiatus coyote.

And like, hey, you know, check this out. And, um, when we did got it, get it in our sample album. Sure. Yeah. I reached out to album.

Sure. When I sample... Donnell Jones, where I want to be. I hit Donnell Jones in the DM. I hit...

He's old. He's old. Yeah. He's old Thursdays down for anything. And Cardo.

Yeah. I love T-zone. I hit, um, EDF, um, a formula that every day in the boys. I hit EDF because, because of, uh, where I want to be. And Cow West.

The great Cow West. Yeah. Right. So I'm, I'm in a stage now that I can reach out to certain people. Like, hey, sweet and good.

We sell for Jill Scott. I had an hour-long conversation with Jill Scott on the phone.

“So it's, it's, that's what makes it fun now.”

It's also doing that thing about keeping the music vibrant and alive. And not that's back hat on. It becomes a forward kind of arc again. For, like, a young cat's, like his audience, who might not know. I'll be sure a night and day.

You know what I'm saying? And discovery of it all. It was discovery for us. The way we, we read credits. Right.

I wish in 1993, when Wu Tang put out 36 chambers. That was the album. And then it produced the risa. Made the Apple music playlist while the samples. Yeah.

I wish that we existed. Yeah. We had the look and find and get the records been now. For his album. I'm going to put all the samples I use and the playlist.

And I'm going to send it out to, because I know my younger fans, my younger supporters, they really, really want to know where it comes from. And they're getting in the music production themselves. And they want to understand. So hopefully they're listening to night and day, but then discover it.

I'll be sure you'll be part of the part of the webinar. I wish you a part of the webinar. I'm going to just say that when I heard the album sure flip, that made me go run back to album sure album. Beautiful.

And that album? In a fake moment. In a fake moment. A fake moment. Trag, Trag, Trag, Trag.

“It was bored talking about him was slapping.”

So you both are familiar with tight beats. Yes. That's what it means. All right. So I have some 9th Wonder Rubin Vincent tight beats.

Oh, Lord. I have sources. It's crazy before I met 9th and then I used to rap on tight beats. When I was a day in my time. So it's funny now that I'm getting tight beats and I'm curious to what

they sound like. Listen man. This is a no-roll session. I try to pick. It's love.

It's the Korean Club. Shout out to all the young producers. But you know, people who's inspired by the sound, I appreciate you all for even. I just want to know if these young fellows nailed the sound.

You know what I'm saying?

So the first one is deadly routine by A.E. Beats.

Okay. You know what I mean? Some people, some producers don't like that. Yeah. Some producers don't like that.

Yeah. Bro, be glad you're known enough. That kids will appreciate to mimic your and not necessarily mimic. We all sound like somebody. You know what I mean?

This is paying homage. If you was trash, your beats were trash. You're not making. You're not getting the tight beat made for you. Exactly.

And so I appreciate. What would that kid is? I've 1000% appreciated. And that's even for him. Like those even the sounds like.

That's probably if we heard. If I heard that sample, I probably would act like that. Yeah. We got two more of the next one is Heartbeat by Flowson, Flowson. Okay.

Slow fading. You know what I mean? That's definitely the least.

No. It's crazy.

It's our first four album together.

And it's like. Oh, love was one we had. One beat on. Yeah. Yeah.

Now I have 16. And I'll just off. Gotta get it. Queen City. Drain Sydney.

Yeah. And not homecoming. Yeah. And the mixed tape put out before. Now that's becoming a brand.

Yeah. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? How crazy is that? Yeah.

It's crazy.

“Like it's crazy that you have zones for different artists.”

You've built brands for. Yeah. And that's what I was about to say. Ninth is not going to make the same beat. That you make for me for a lot of non or certain certain person.

Like granted, we'll collaborate together. You know what I mean? But he knows exactly what's palace to put certain artists on. So for them to even pick that up and pick the sample and be like, Okay, this is moving.

You know, over at night is it's dope. All the day. Do you know? I don't know. I'll find out for you.

If they listen, man. So I'm not going to get out. Because if those, you know, they can be 15, 14. They can be 28. Again, back to what I was saying.

That generation is not low. We have to stop standing there. Discover. Yeah. One more.

We got rap star by soul society beats. Oh, yeah. This is the sample. It's for sure. You can't really go wrong with that.

You can't really go wrong with that. You can't really go wrong with that. You can't really go wrong with that. You can't really go wrong with that. Yeah.

Yeah. Man. And shot to them. Yeah. That's the way.

Yeah. That's the way. That's the way. That's the way. That's the way.

Wow. Wow. I didn't know how that was going to go.

“I never listened to my tight beats before.”

Yeah. I was wondering if that was a thing. Like if you're like a boy, things with your name on it. You know, say, you probably don't check out ninth one to tight beats at all. Yeah.

So I wanted to introduce you to some of your, your students. It's so many, like, one to tie beats. It's some people that exist in the game. There's not one to tie you. Yeah.

You're lying. All right. I got one more. We got you. I got one more.

We got you. I got one more. Shout out the cash in the building. I was canceling. What is he?

No. All right. One more question. There's a new segment on the show called The Big Playback. We're going to seek justice for an underrated or overlooked song album or arts.

Yes. Now, my brothers, I got one on deck in case you don't have you. It's ready. But if you got yours ready, you can let it rip. Um, yes.

I'll go first. Um, I'm going to give you all.

And finally, this is your camera.

If you need to let mother. No. All right. The big playback for me is going to be an album that was a couple of years old. It made me four or five years older than me.

But it's something that I studied when I was 14 years old. It's by a group called I and I. And I didn't even notice at the time. And I'm just finding this out today. Pete Rock's brother was in it.

Um, but the album is not available on streaming. Um, but I remember when I first started coming around ninth. And obviously, I already did my own studies. You know, the far side and, you know, tribe. I was a big fan of tribe already.

But I asked him. And he knew I already knew like the classics. I was like, Yo, what's the album that? You know, I should study that I haven't heard yet. And he told me about the I and I album.

And I was blown away that nobody ever heard this. You know what I mean?

“And I think that's that's something that you know,”

people should check out when they have the time. For sure. Brunette, I am not. I am not. I was at that the anniversary show for the brother.

And I was like, Oh, it's a few others, but those are the three. I can think of right now off top that has that feeling that sound to them, right? Yeah. But I think a person that really pioneered that whatever the aesthetic is for that is a young woman by the name of Jack Davy.

Hey man, come the fruit breed. I'm excited. Yeah. The homies.

I first heard Jack Davy me the late 2000s in Jay Davy.

And you know, she had one song in particular six out to me is my name. Marco Polo did his call relax. Relax. Yes. And I just recently talked to her just recently through Nike, EYBL.

It wasn't even a music conversation.

But funny how that should happen.

Exactly. We talked about youth basketball. Because tripper. Her son. Yes.

Nice. Yes. Absolutely. Shout out to the sounds of team. I love saying this.

“This is man, she, she crawled so they can run.”

And that's a 100% so if you don't know who Jack Davy is from the aesthetic from the sound, the texture of her voice, she was doing it man way before we even can have a control. Or have a, um, it where it comes worse for, you know, the worse for JNA echo. And just anybody that's in that lane salute to Jack Davy. And by the way, nice with the bars.

She will bar up a lot of year. And then sing 'em out to the org. Yeah. Shout out to Jack Davy. Man.

Shout out to Jack Davy.

I got to give my pick since we're here.

Yeah. North Carolina group. Yeah. Food for man. What's up dog?

Come to come man. What's up? I stepped to the right. He stepped to the left. I'm too fat to tell you that.

She's deaf. He's deaf. Must have been healed. Must have looped. Yeah.

I flew front for me.

“Is one of those groups that like, they're unsung in the same way.”

Like, they were like in the shadows of a far side and like these, like, more like, abstract hip-hop groups. And, and, and like, hearing cats like that come out of North Carolina kind of gave me confidence to be who I am. You know what I'm saying? People don't understand this. The three you can say at the time that was like really had that sound that was through the roof was tribe far side and so is a mystery.

Yep. Who we don't talk about enough is Jack food, bugging monsters, bush babies. We don't talk about this kind of dirt nation. We don't talk about these, you know, because if tribe is the litmus, just think how many groups that was on that kind of vibe. They had joints of their own.

Yeah.

And, you know, that was an amazing time for groups like that.

They type of sound. Trins of culture was another. Trins of culture. It was so many. I was so many groups.

Man that had it was using jazz and hip-hop. You know, man. You remember the group? Yeah, I grew up. Yeah, I grew up.

Yeah, I grew up. Yeah, we had it again. Like, it was so many west coasts of Front dubious. Front dubious. What was the name of ice cubes group?

The legend model.

“No, it was like, there was like super chill kind of like songs of mischief.”

I forget their name. Mm. I'll let. But they had on like flammers in the video. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it was like got a beach. And I was like, why did the beach with flammers? Just warm at the beach. So like, like, like, the shade of brown. Yeah.

So many groups, man, from that time. They had that feel, man. We would try the route, try the route. Um, far side of the songs of mischief. And you create a genealogy for those four groups.

You're going to, and those four come from daylight. Yep. And jungle brothers. Um, need a ton. So daylight and jungle brothers.

Yeah. Listen, man, we could do this for like hours, man. So I want to get y'all brothers get, get up and get you work done. Yeah. But thank you so much for stopping through, man.

Thank you, man. Thank you all the time. Very, very, very good. Thank you, man. And you brought our day.

Hey. Shout out to Nathan Rubin for stopping by. Hangin out with us. It's so dope to have two generations of hip hop at the table at the same time. Be sure to check out their album and then check their website to find out when the next show is.

And that's it for this week. But as usual, make sure to stick around for a little something after the credits. The Armanac of Rap is created and hosted by Don Will. Executive producers are Don Will. ICCA and Travis Harris.

The show is directed by Travis Harris. The show is produced and edited by Colby Balfour. Art Direction for the show was handled by Couchic Caledindi. The production coordinator is Bianca Ortiz. Audience development is handled by Osan Sproul and Ashana McCullen.

Our audio marketing strategist is Fabian Mickens. The show's camera operators are Travis Harris. Colby Balfour, Trigger Bowden and Compton Timberwolf. Graphic Design was done by Jefferson Harris. Compton is also our technical director and audio engineer.

The show's associate producers are Brianna Harris, T.R. Jackson and Javans Stevenson. The show's theme music was provided by Vaan Pea. The show is written by Don Will and Peter Berry. I spent way too much time compiling names of artists that fit into my little length and descriptive category to not mention the rest of them.

So I just want to give them a shout out for having their own little microtrampopinol. The rest of the list is Rich the Kid. Skimass the Slump God. Pull on the Don. Smooth the hustler. Trigger the gambler.

Rip the Jacket. Del the funky homo sapient.

Mariah the Scientist. Be Jay the Chicago Kid. Sage the Gemini.

Alright, see you guys next time on the Almanac of Rav.