My Mother’s Lies | 5. The Confessions

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“The cue, Agent Bobo Niel, is referring to, is Quincy Cross.”

"The agent's claim Tamar was there with her boyfriend, Quincy, the Knight of Jessica current's murder. But Tamar insists she wasn't even introduced to Quincy until two years after the murder. She had just given birth and was a month or so postpartum when Jessica was killed. Tamar certainly wasn't out hurting, but Agent Wise isn't listening or rather he isn't getting

what he wants. "You're sitting there crying, but your eyes are evil." "And you know what I'm talking about?" "You're sitting there knowing what you haven't done for your entire life." "Let me taste it."

"I can't say that, but you, what I want to put you when I want to put you." What is Agent Wise talking about? I can put you where I want to put you. What is that supposed to mean? Sounds like a threat to me that he can put her in prison whenever he likes, that he has

the power to do that, so she'd better give him what he wants. This is hard for me to listen to. For the record, there is zero proof that this young woman was involved or even witnessed the crime. In fact, her name hadn't come up in any investigation until shortly before this interview,

seven years after the crime was committed. "I know the story, 100% horror, don't let your story deviate from what I know, and what I didn't know me or else."

“The quote "story" Agent Wise is referring to is the final version of events that would”

eventually be presented at trial. It had been extracted from what we could now infamously call "the jury in interviews." Over a number of weeks in the spring of 2007, new suspects and witnesses were rounded up and taken to the jury in, an out-of-town hotel, not a police station, in nearby Paduka. Tamra Caldwell was one of the last of these interrogations.

Where these new witnesses came from, what new accusations emerged, and how that final story took shape was largely thanks to the KBI's top informant, Susan Galbreff.

This is episode 5, The Confessions.

“Let's go back to late 2006, 6 months before the jury in interviews.”

The investigation into Jessica's murder was well into its sixth year, and seemed to be going nowhere. The currents were understandably frustrated with the lack of developments, so Jessica's father Joe made an impassioned plea to Kentucky's then attorney general Greg Stumbo to put his special prosecutor on the case.

Actually, this is the second time he'd made this appeal.

"I talked to him, and he said, "I'm going to send some party down. Well, the first time he sent that, he didn't send nobody down. But the second time I talked to him about it, he said, "I'll send somebody down. We're going that case."

“This time Greg Stumbo announces publicly he will act to finally solve the case, making”

good on his earlier pre-election promise to Joe Current. So then he's seeing why's an O'Neill." So that's when the third investigative body was appointed to try and solve Jessica's murder.

The Kentucky Bureau of Investigation, or KBI.

And though that might sound familiar, they are not the FBI. They're a special investigative arm of the Kentucky Attorney General's Office. The two agents assigned to the case are Robert Bob O'Neill and Lee Wise, both imposing plain cloth detectives who had worked in Louisville, Kentucky. But it seems neither of them had worked homicides before, a recurring theme in this story.

Nevertheless, they arrived in Mayfield in early September 2006 tasked with assisting the Kentucky State Police, but immediately they took charge. They started by taking the existing case files and picking up the State Police's leads. You can probably see what's coming. Before they even arrive in town, before they even take a meeting with the Currents, they're

on the phone with Citizens' Truth, Susan Galbreff. After the tense relationship she had with the State Police under Sam Steger, this was quite the turnaround. Speaking here in 2012, she recalls how impressed the KBI were with her work on the case. "They called and introduced herself to me and had came by my home and I had started

showing them the case files that I had accumulated, as well as notes, tapes, all of that. From then on, we just hit it off immediately." And according to Bob O'Neill, speaking with the same journalist, the feeling was mutual. She was so helpful to us in that if there was a person that we needed to interview several days before we even came to Mayfield, we would call Susan and tell Susan, "This is

a person that we're trying to find, and as you would have the information for us." If you read through Susan's emails and compare them to the KBI report as we've done, you can see just how closely they coordinated their efforts. Susan's name appears more than 15 times over a six-month investigative period. During one witness interview, the agents even appeared a phone Susan just to check

some details. As Agent O'Neill himself said, Susan was part of the team. Susan worked with us. She called us whenever she needed something, and we called her whenever we needed something. You know, I just felt like she was one of us. Look, I can understand the temptation to lean on Susan. They're coming in cold, tasked with getting this thing solved. Susan knows the case. She knows the community. She has

a compelling story. And, by this point, she also has a number of new leads to follow.

“First up is Jeffrey Burton. I think she's only put the whole thing together, and I”

know what Susan said is a damn lie. This whole thing is a damn lie.

This is the first time we've mentioned Jeff's name. That's because his name hasn't been

part of the investigation until now. It seems to have emerged out of the blue. In 2005, years after Jessica's murder, while refining her story, Susan came across a reference to there being a couple of unnamed white guys at the Chris Drive party with Quincy. Asking around, the name Jeff Burton comes up, a white guy who was known to frequent parties in Mayfield back in 2000, was he one of those unnamed white men? When she finds out that Jeff

used to live near the middle school, Bingo, Gilp by proximity. Susan goes ahead and includes

Tom Mangold from August 18, 2005, edited slightly to make it more understandable. Once again, brace yourself. At approximately 235, Vinicia is approached by a white catalac as she is walking home. The occupants are Austin Lane's Quincy Cross and/or Jeff Burton. At approximately 240, the white catalac pulls up alongside Jessica. Jessica gets into the back seat with Quincy and Jeff Burton. Quincy, who was high from Drake and cocaine, has been looking for a girl to have sex

“with all evening. He can no longer contain himself. I believe he put his belt around her neck”

in the car trying to control her. Jeff Burton lives a few houses from there and Austin parks his car at Jeff's house. When the car door is opened, Jessica tries to escape. She runs back to the middle school. She's panting, scared for her life. The boys are chasing her. Quincy reaches and catches the belt. Austin gets in front of her and uncipt his pants. Austin punches her. I'll stop there to spare you the rest of her graphic account. But the way she writes it,

it feels more like a pulp thriller or a B movie screenplay, hardly an evidence-based account. Now, this is where it gets really bizarre and really bad for Jeff Burton.

“Around the same time, Susan heard another rumor that someone's basement had been searched by the”

state police relating to Jessica's murder. She decides to swing by Jeff's now vacant property just a few blocks from the school. This is how she later described it to Tom. I look for a basement, as I walked around the house, I saw a garage. The air was still, I crept over to the door and was overwhelmed with a feeling of dread. I didn't go in for fear of tainting the scene. For the next 20 years, Jeffrey Burton would wonder how his old garage suddenly

became suspected of being the scene of the crime. Recently, he sat down with our investigative

producer, Alice. She showed him these emails written by Susan. It's the first time he's seen them.

It's so crazy because here you are, 2000s, what you're seven. Okay, Jessica Curtis was murdered in 2000, seven years prior. So you go to my house that was been abandoned for at least several months. I'd say the back doors ripped open. I know Taylor who's been in trouble. You know, it's abandoned. That's just insane. In saying is certainly one way to put it. I'm speechless. At this point, it's like Susan is scouting for locations for her scripted narrative. Here's Jeff,

reading Susan's own words. God just telling me, I have no proof of it, but as long as it's just

amazing. My mind boggling is what they did here to me. I agree. I mean, where's her proof? God's telling

me, what was she basing this latest theory on? Divine intervention? This could all be dark comedy. If Jeffrey Burton hadn't ended up facing such horrible life-changing consequences, due to Susan's actions when she passed his name onto the KBI. Here's another email from January 2007. I made my way back to the car and called Lee Wise. I was so excited. I knew I had finally found where they had Jessica. I knew this house was connected to her. It's hard to explain

it. Well, no kidding. It's hard to explain. There's no factual basis for it. And yet, the KBI log shows Susan named Jeff as one of the party gores at the house party on Chris Drive with Quincy, the Knight of Jessica's murder. On January 17, 2007, Jeff was interviewed by the agents. As you'll

“hear, he's incredulous. You don't have to realize this is 2007. When was he when it just happened?”

This is seven years ago. It's not really possible for me to remember what I was doing in particular days out of my life like that. I mean, it's standard possible. Ever since I've seen it show my space, I've been trying to think about why it's my name on here. And what does

it party they're talking about? Where does it come to play? Because I never seen any of this shit as far as

the stuff was just a period. Here comes the next twist in the tail. Why on earth is Jeff talking

You see, at some point, Susan had created a my space page about Jessica's murder for people the comment on, and where they could get in touch with her. And on it, she lists five people of interest in the murder investigation, shamelessly casting public suspicion on them. As you just heard, Jeff Burton wasn't too thrilled to find himself publicly implicated. Here he is again talking to

“our producer, Alice. So I believe that initially I'm at work. And all of my co-workers are like,”

you know, in my space, look at this thing. So you know, I'm just like, you know, what do I do? Oh my god, you know what I mean? While Jeff was trying to figure out what this all meant, Susan's my space got another hit. Someone who'd seen her page decided to get in touch, someone who would prove catastrophic for Quincy Cross, the young black man visiting from Tennessee when Jessica was murdered. Her name was Victoria called well. Back in 2000, Victoria was the 15-year-old witness who

disappeared from Mayfield shortly after implicating two men in Jessica's murder. Jessica's boyfriend Lolo Saxon and Jeremy Adams, the father of Jessica's son. Still in her early 20s, she was now living in California with her own children. Victoria responded to Susan's friend request and then

after a few days of communicating, the extent of which will never know, Victoria agreed to talk to

Susan's friends at the KBI. By the time agents wise and own Neil drove out to meet her in person, Victoria had a very different story to tell from the one she told shortly after the murder. She's now ready to name Quincy as a suspect, but it sounds like she's worried about changing her previous story. No, why would you think that? Well, there were not KSP,

“would I make feel like those were none of those who were the attorney general walked this okay?”

And we are the high-law here and we are here to do one thing. We saw this case and then it's evident

that at this time, throughout first conversation with you, that you want to play on a poor

role in helping us do this okay? Of course. Just relax. Now it's difficult to overstate what happens next. This is the precise moment when Susan's narrative stops being a theory thrown around by email posted on website spread by the rumor mail. At this point, it acquires real-life consequences. Infamous is the gossip show that's smart. We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down top model.

We talk about Jenna Jamison and how she dominated the 90s. You know, she's horny and she's in charge. She just was very smart about marketing herself. We talk about celebrities who maybe

shouldn't be celebrities like the Beckham guy. Brooklyn is their first kid. He's had a little bit

of the Neppo baby curse. We investigate orgasm cults. A woman's erotic power can unlock many other powers in her life. And of course, we discuss people who have gotten into lots of trouble. My name is Malima Bluffin. I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims. She was defrauding the elderly and

“her tagline was the only thing I'm guilty of is being shamazing.”

Listen to Infamous, the gossip show that's smart. The show's called Infamous. Welcome to crime scene. The new weekly show from the binge, where we tell you the stories behind the world's most unforgettable crimes. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. You may know me as the host of my fugitive dad or dear Franklin Jones watching you. I'm an executive producer of the binge. The true crime podcast network where we bring you a new series on the first of every month.

For crime scene, I'm joined by my producer and co-host Cooper Mall, the reporter and voice behind Fatal Beauty and the crimes of Margo Freshwater. We know there are a lot of true crime podcasts out there. I think what makes crime scene different is that Cooper and I have boots on the ground. We're investigative storytellers. And so many of the stories that come across our desk, we haven't been able to share with you until now. So if you're one of the millions of people,

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It's 848pm on Sunday, March 25th, 2007. The jury in sweets, Paduca Cantaki, 25 miles north of Mayfield. Victoria called while sits in a straight back chair in a dreary hotel room. She was casual close. A yellow hotel floor lamp cast light across her left shoulder. KBI agents Levi's and Bob O'Neill ask the same questions again and again. But Victoria seems composed, like she's trying hard to remember the details.

Her story has already changed a fair bit since Susan Gallbert first connected them.

But the details are still a little hazy as is the sequence of events. In Victoria's latest version, instead of Quincy burning the body at the school with the others that night, he now leaves the crime scene to return to the party on Chris Drive, leaving Jeff Burton to dispose of Jessica's body. She said Jeff then stored her body in his shed behind his house. Then burned it two days later behind the middle school.

Body turned to kind of smell. I like a stench to it and so we need to get rid of the body. So, you and Venetia and Jeff are what did you do?

“We put the body to the school. How did she get the body to the school?”

I don't know who's crying. I don't know who's crying. I'm not sure. Well, they call her look like. I think it was a house on the floor. Oh, what? What color was it? What color?

Victoria still seems unsure of the specifics, like who picks up who and what car, what weapon was used to kill Jessica where the gas came from, and her story will keep evolving over the coming weeks. But it's enough to start cross-referencing with other witnesses. Like Jessica's cousin, Venetia's stubble field. Remember her? She ends up with the jury in too. For the last six years and through 16 separate police interviews, Jessica's

cousin Venetia has maintained her story. That she last saw Jessica around 130 or 2 a.m. walking down Wallnut Street. But now, under intense questioning by the state police,

who are now very much aligned with the KBI investigation, her story finally pivots and points to

Quincy Cross.

“I think, I don't know what you saw, but I don't know. Apparently Quincy beat Jessica with the gun.”

That's new information. Then Venetia says Quincy carried the unconscious Jessica inside and later on the floor. But that doesn't quite match up with Victoria's version. Then, with what seems like some pretty direct prompting by the cops, her story starts to align closer with Victoria's. We're not locked in there, she was running on the floor.

She had her own evidence. Venetia. Come on, girl. Be strong, you're in a fight. We're not locked in the room. He had Jessica on the bayet. When he was on top of her, beaten her at the time, he was beaten at what a bayet. Talk about leading the witness. You can actually hear her story

changing under questioning. Look, I witnessed testimony can be flawed at the best of times, especially after so many years, but Victoria and Venetia's interviews throw up all kinds of inconsistencies. Victoria is picked up by Venetia. Venetia is picked up by Victoria.

There's one car. Then, two. Then, a third is Jessica conscious or unconscious when they arrive at

“Jefs. Was it a bat, a gun, or a wrench? Was she taken to the middle school that night?”

Was it two days later? And remind me, is Jefs white or black? Because he's been described as both. As I said, there are places on these tapes where it seems like you can hear the cops coaching them. What to say? I'm not trying to rush it all, but I'm going to ask you a question. Okay, and you've got to be honest with me, okay? Isn't it true that Jefs

out of that truck, out of the trunk of that car, and then he forced you to strike that mask.

“Didn't he actually dumped a gas on there? Is that correct? Yes. Got it. All right.”

Despite all the contradictions, they now have two eyewitnesses to the murder of Jessica current. They're not just eyewitnesses. They both confess to being involved and are ready to implicate the others. Next up, are the accused. Quincy Cross, the outsider who happened to have gasoline on him, Jeff Burton, the guy with a garage, and Tamara Caldwell, Victoria's cousin, who briefly dated Quincy about two years after the murder. It's no surprise that none of them confess. They're all

outraged and frankly in utter disbelief. "I don't know nothing about her being right." "I don't know." "What about the pictures that was taken at night when you all murdered Jessica?" "I don't know about that." "No! I don't know anything!" The KBI press is on pulling in more supporting witnesses, largely drawn from the young,

“vulnerable women of Mayfield. "You're sitting here beating us back because you don't want to”

talk about somebody sucking and fucking. We are all grown. We know what happened in there. We know we know we can't tell you everything. Because you know it has got to come from you. Now I'm gonna tell you if you don't start talking to us, we're just gonna get up and leave. Because we can't keep cluing in over there, okay?"

After a whirlwind few weeks, the case is finally presented to a grand jury.

On March 30, 2007, five individuals are indicted and the charges are announced to the press. Quincy Cross, now 31 years old, is still living with the grandma who helped raise him in Tennessee when his life came to a shuddering halt. He's charged with capital kidnapping, capital murder,

“sawdemy in the first degree, rape in the first degree, abuse of a corpse,”

and tampering with physical evidence, and four counts of intimidation. Tamer called well, the new mother who had given birth just weeks before Jessica's murder, she's charged with the same offenses. Jeff Burton, the white guy with a garage who happened to live near the school, the same minus the sawdemy charge. Jessica's cousin, Benisha Stoublefield, and Tamer's cousin,

Victoria called well, are both charged with abuse of a corpse and tampering with physical evidence, but they both immediately plead guilty to reduce charges in exchange for testifying against Quincy, Tamer, and Jeff who all plead not guilty. Benisha and Victoria get this sweet deal, so long as they are truthful in their testimony against the other three. And so after just six months, the KBI swooped in and located witnesses,

exposed suspects and extracted statements that the local police and state police failed to do on their own and over six years. But before they even get to trial, they waste no time in commending their star informant, Susan Gauberath. Susan is triumphant and receives the outstanding citizen award we've told you about. She's celebrated not just locally, but on the national news.

This is the award. That's from Greg Stumble, the attorney general at the time. Hey, this is where it says 2006, but they weren't arrested until March 2007. That's kind of weird, no, to get the award before. Anything's happened. Sure. The fact that Susan's award is back dated to 2006 is in itself intriguing,

but to her son Ray, at that time, it seemed like an incredible achievement,

like his mom had finally achieved something good. I was very proud of my mom for everything that she had done and the award that she received. It was all if it was pretty cool. And when did that outlook change for you? That all changed for me, probably after about a month of looking into all the stuff that she had. Over the years, he'd started to guess at some things. Douts emerged, he heard rumors,

plus he knew his mom's character well enough. She had a way with getting what she wanted in her mind. She's used to being right. So if it's what she says, then more than likely, she thinks she's right enough to stand behind it. Whether his mom ever really believed her story deep down, believed in Quincy's guilt, is another thing Ray wrestles with today.

all the people supposedly involved. Well, the lesson last plausible, it all feels.

“I can see one sicko being in a, you know, you can randomly find one sicko, but to find three or four”

people that could do this to somebody. I mean, that's that's unheard of. It's just the sick, what what the story is that happened. It's it's almost unbelievable. I mean, yeah, it's very unbelievable. I'd say Ray makes a good point, but at the end of the day, it's what a jury will believe that matters most. I want to tell you guys about a podcast that is near and dear to my heart, and I can't believe it already came out a year ago, and you can all go listen to it,

add free by subscribing to the binge podcast channel. What podcast current? Tell us. Oh, it's called Blink Jake Handel story. I created it about a man named Jake who I met, who is the only survivor of a terminal brain illness brought on by heroin use, but there is a lot of

“mystery and medical malpractice and true crime elements that are very shocking and surprising,”

and even some supernatural elements. So this is definitely an amazing story as very unique did

such an incredible job telling the story and sharing it with a world. So if you have not listened to it, my goodness, where have you been because Blink is so freaking good. Thank you. Search for Blink wherever you listen and subscribers to the binge. We'll get the entire season ad free. Plus you'll get exclusive access to the over 60 other true crime stories on the binge podcast channel. Hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts or head to getthebenged.com.

Fabio Cementilly. Big hearts, big voice, big laugh. A rock star hair stylist who drove a

morsha, he was like a wizard behind the chair. The killers came for Fabio and his own backyard.

“You can't rationalize that you can't figure it out. There was rampant speculation about everything,”

but every wild theory was wrong because the truth was even more unbelievable. What is anybody hearing what I'm hearing? And even more heartbreaking. The uncertainty of not knowing is a form of agony. From Sony Music Entertainment and novel, this is Cut Color Kill. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Coming May 1st to the binge. Search for Cut Color Kill wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, and free.

The trial is set for March 2008. At the time of his arrest, Quincy was unemployed and bouncing between jobs, and as you heard he's living with his grandmother, he just hasn't got the means to pay for some fancy defense team, so public defender Vince used us as a point to to represent him. Attorney used us is now deceased. In fact, he was in poor health when he took this case and died shortly after it. Here is Kentucky Attorney Miranda Helman, a lawyer for the

innocence project who would come to represent Quincy later on. There were things going on with Vince during this trial that it was obvious he wasn't well, he wasn't himself, and that he had not put the preparation into this case that he needed to. Vince going to trial while also working other cases with these 40,000 pages of documents, he just really had no idea what was there. But even defense attorney used us could see Susan Gallbert was all over the police files.

It just became very obvious that she was involved in some way, and so there was a subpoena issued for her to come into the courthouse during the Quincy pre-trial, you know Quincy and his co-defense pre-trial proceedings, and bring in her investigation file and even potentially her computer to be searched for any evidence related to the investigation of this case. The subpoena is demanding that she hand over the totality of her case file, her notes,

her covert recordings, her communications, everything she has in relation to this case. Now, that should have included all the emails she'd been hearing throughout this series. The ones where she shaped a narrative about a sex crazed drug fueled outsider, Quincy Cross, raping, strangling, and burning the body of Jessica Kern, a story that grew to include a cast of may-field locals, both witnesses and accomplices over the course of a four-year investigation.

This should have been a chance for Susan's story in her role to be put on trial alongside

Susan never turned over anything that she created.

“She never turned over any emails, any notes, any recordings herself.”

Those would be the emails, notes, and recordings that we now got access to that you've been listening to in this series, most of it shared with us by her son, Ray. And so, as a subpoena issued to her to bring all of her things, I don't think she actually complied with it at all. It seems that Susan was repeatedly called to the courthouse during pre-trial hearings, but each time she downplayed or denied having more materials to hand over, but as we can

now see in her emails, Susan was clearly concerned about the subpoena. Writing here to Tom, she even mentions taking advice from the KBI on how to avoid complying with it. "Met with my friends today and was told not to worry about anything concerning my PC.

“I was told even if they subpoena my hard drive as a private citizen, I can do whatever I want”

with my computer, except right below." Here, she's gloating to Tom about how she dealt with the defenses request. "I was asked if I had the papers I was supposed to bring. I told them I didn't feel I should have to tell him anything and that I would rather tell it to the court." Susan would get her wish. She would have her day in court. That's part of why we wanted to make

this podcast, so you get to hear what the jury never heard, what the judge and attorneys

didn't know at the time. The full scope of Susan's role in what was about to unfold. It's seven days into the trial. So far, the jury has heard from the currents, the Chris Drive partygoers, law enforcement, and numerous other witnesses. Susan strolls up to the witness stand. She's wearing jeans, her hair is dyed black and tied up. She's chewing gum after establishing that she has no prior involvement with legal cases.

The prosecution discusses her role, conducting covert interviews and working with the police. When the subject of her subpoena comes up, she's asked directly, under oath if she handed everything over. "Yeah, I'm sorry. I've got a bad idea." "I know all your ringer

for using your pack when you turn those off." "Yes." Just to break the scene for a second,

according to Miranda Helman, this is a lie. As far as her testimony being truthful,

“I don't believe it was, and I think that's very provable now. And still to this day,”

I think we're still missing a ton of information that Susan had back to the trial. Susan downplays her role at every turn. For instance, here is her response when asked about Jeremy's mother Donna Adams. Jeremy was, of course, one of the original suspects, and the father of Jessica Sun. "What is your relationship with Donna Adams?" "A quince." "Did you consider her for it?" "I don't, I don't, I really don't think that I would even consider it that."

That'd be the same Donna she used to party with. The same Donna who we now know got her involved in the first place to try and clear her son Jeremy from suspicion. Susan continues minimizing her role, evading questions, and offering meandering unsolicited opinions. Whether she intends to so confusion or is just feeling the pressure is unclear, but both the prosecution and the defense and finally the judge struggle to keep her on track. Defense attorney Eustice eventually

complains to the judge. "I'm using this as the so-called ex." "Yes." "Mayors, get over if you would listen carefully to the question and just respond to the question over." "Okay." In the end, the judge seems so confused by Susan's presence at the trial, and even asks why she's there. "I have people with me saying to ask her a series of questions." Now, you can just about hear from this whispered bench conference that defense attorney Eustice

actually had a pretty good idea of why Susan was there. "Yes, he is. That we're trying to think we're saying that it was her. It was her put the names of Quincy Cross and everybody else in the spotlight and targeted death. "That's a source of it." "I'm literally only wearing that dress and because that's what this witness is been all about, I guess." "Yes, that's right." "No,

is having a hard time establishing Susan's involvement in the investigation to the judge." "All right,

“ladies, gentlemen, Jerry, we're going to take a brief recess." "Still struggling to get to the bottom”

of why Susan's part of this trial, the judge and attorneys eventually call her into the judge's chambers. The defense wants clarity from Susan about her my space page away from the jury, but still on the record under oath. This is her response. One asked why Quincy's name was even on her persons of interest list. "Why?" "I know he killed." "I just know he killed her." "Okay." She doesn't offer evidence, just her opinion. Before they let her go, they discussed her undercover

recording of Quincy, where Susan repeats many of her recollections, that he knew, quote, "exactly what kind of belt was used to kill Jessica." "And I saw the crime scene photo of the belt around her neck and it was a black-rated belt." "It was not crunchy for the belt around your neck." "I'm not really sure what to make of this." Susan says under oath that she couldn't forget the photo of the belt around Jessica's neck and then the defense lawyer

corrects her. "No where in the evidence is there a photo or any physical proof of a belt being around Jessica's neck, not from the crime scene or the autopsy, despite Susan's claims." Susan's eventually dismissed from the chamber's conference. "Thank you. Thank you."

"But I don't. We never have to come but I've got like bad the Swarthrode and I wanted to just try

keep it myself." Susan eventually leaves and there are a few juggles. It's hard to know how seriously they really took her. "And any case while Susan's part and the trial may be finished, her theory isn't. The issue of Quincy's belt stays central to the prosecution's line of questioning. For example, a state trooper who was at the crime scene gets himself twisted up trying to clarify things. Here's defense attorney, used this, pushing him for an answer."

"Okay so when you said it out of the ramp in neck, that's not correct." "I don't know if it was it was a burnt, charred piece lying there above the victim's neck." "So it was not an outside

“neck not around that." Now there's said and honestly say that I can recall directly where it was now.”

Later, the medical examiner who had been one of the early sources for the strangulation theory back in 2000, on the stand now, isn't so sure. He confirms that there was no obvious ligature mark or physical evidence of strangulation. In fact he admits that he only mentioned strangulation in his report because he was told by the police that there was a fragment of belt near Jessica's neck. I don't need to emphasize how flimsy this all seems, why forensic

evidence is so critical? At this point, witness testimony becomes incredibly powerful and that's

where Victoria called well and beneath a stubble field come in. "The testimony of the two women at trial shows how their stories have evolved over the previous year. Most of the timeline issues have been resolved and the order of events is more consistent, but there are still plenty of discrepancies starting with where Jessica was picked up from. Here's Victoria." "Yes, and here's Venisha." "Will Victoria be still walking around and she'll probably be like a block and a half from where we were standing?" "When you say go back to her?" "Yes." "The cars are still confusing.

"The same white car and you drove from first drive?" "No." "And different white cars?" "Yes." Jessica is both conscious and unconscious on her way into Jeff's house. It goes on and many of the facts presented will remain

“unreconciled, but let's focus on the other key word that has persisted from the beginning. The gas.”

Again, remember there's no physical evidence of gasoline. What kind of accelerant was used or where it came from. All we have is the fact that Quincy smelled of gas and the body was burned with something. Both Victoria and Venisha are aligned on this part of the story. They both testified that Jessica's body was kept in Jeff's shed for two days after the murder. They both confess to helping Jeff Burton burn Jessica's body at the school while Quincy was in jail on drug charges.

drew Susan's suspicions to him, is completely irrelevant. Quincy silently watches all this unfold

“from behind a table. All he can do is whisper to his attorney. But at this point, Quincy was basically”

helpless to stop what was about to happen. Despite the confusion over the belt, the gasoline, and the absence of any DNA evidence, the narrative, the story that has grown over the years, the story that has been shared and reshared, honed and rehashed by Susan, Tom, the Kentucky State Police and the KBI, a horrifying story, relayed by two eyewitnesses. Both of whom also confess their involvement is apparently simply too shocking to be made up. The jury has heard enough.

On Tuesday, April 8th, 2008, Quincy Cross is found guilty on all counts and receives a life sentence

“for the rape and murder of Jessica Kern. But this is not the end of the story,”

far from it. That flimsy narrative we heard at trial that held together just long enough to get a conviction quickly starts to unravel. Witnesses recount their testimony. "I was long, and I was taking advantage of it. I had no guidance. I had no really no health to work. No, nothing, no, I say,

hey, no, you can't trust me. You can't do this. You never had one." But if Quincy would have any chance

of regaining his freedom, then Susan's role on this mess would have to finally be exposed. We were at this strange place where we had years of emails that told the extent of Susan's

“meddling that could have been years to get Quincy off the charges. And so the next stage was”

well, we need to give this evidence to someone. That's someone was the Kentucky Innocence Project. Quincy's new legal team and that evidence might just be Quincy's best shot at freedom yet. I just hope that the truth comes out and that the jury sees the full picture and not just the

entryfulness that they got the first time. That's next time on our final episode of My Mother's Lies.

At the time of release, we have not received a response from the Kentucky State Police, the Office of the Attorney General of Kentucky, former State Trooper Sam Steger, or former KBI agent Lee Wise regarding allegations reported in this episode. A legal representative for a former KBI agent Bob O'Neill responded by email saying he "categorically denies the narrative and the specific allegations." Tom Mangold confirmed by email that he stands

by his reporting. Unlock all episodes of My Mother's Lies Add Free right now by subscribing to the binge podcast channel. Not only will you immediately unlock all episodes of this show, but you'll get binge access to an entire network of over 60 true crime and investigative podcast.

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subscribers get a binge drop of a brand new series that's all episodes all at once. Search for the binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page. Not on Apple, then head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. This is My Mother's Lies, an original production of Sony Music Entertainment and Message Herd, posted by me, Beth Carrus. From Message Herd, Alice Arnold is our investigator producer,

Robin Simon, our producer, McAllister Bexon, our series producer, Tiago Diaz, our assistant producer. Alan Leer is our supervising sound editor, supported by sound editor Lizzie Andrews that I've been easily with original composition by Mike Mains. From Sony Music Entertainment, our executive producers are Catherine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. From Blink Films, our executive producer is just

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