My Mother’s Lies | 6. The Unraveling

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Seventeen years since Quincy Omar Cross was found guilty of Jessica current's murder. Seventeen years of denied appeals, frustration and despair, and it all comes down to today. A shot at freedom. We're at the Graves County Circuit Court on the final day of a new evidentiary hearing. Over the previous days, Quincy's defense team has scrutinized a number of eyewitnesses

and their testimony that were so critical to the 2008 prosecution and conviction of Quincy

Cross. But today the focus shifts to the men deemed responsible for extracting that testimony. That is the voice of Special Judge Tyler Gill. The man on the stand, who Judge Gill is recommending, is former KBI agent Lee Wise. This is Quincy's defense attorney, referencing the infamous jury in interviews, where

agents Lee Wise and Bob O'Neill aggressively interrogated young witnesses, including Victoria Calldwell, and Jessica's cousin, Vinisha Stubblefield. So far, Lee Wise has been pretty argumentative, obstructive even, and if he goes on like this, he's at risk of being held in contempt, so he should be careful. Quincy's attorney doesn't get much further before the judge steps in again.

The judge calls for a ten-minute recess, so agent Ys can compose himself. 17 years ago, it was Quincy in a handful of witnesses who were in the spotlight facing an interrogation. Now the tables have turned.

“So what exactly happened in these 17 years to bring us to this point?”

Will the story Susan Gallbert help the KBI construct, finally be reckoned with, and

will it be enough to warrant a retrial for Quincy Cross? From Sony Music Entertainment and Message Herd, this is my mother's lies, I'm Beth Carrus. This is our finale, episode 6, The Unraveling. Let's go back to 2008. Quincy has been convicted.

In the fallout of the trial, his remaining co-dependence continued maintaining their innocence. But Tamara called well, Quincy is one time girlfriend, and Jeff Burton, who lived at the house near the school where Jessica's body was supposedly stored, and now pushed by their attorneys to take plea deals. Here's private investigator and former cop, John Puhle.

months before that.

“And then certainly if I was setting in a jail cell and I saw that happen, I would be worried.”

Our producer Alice recently caught up with Jeff to ask him about that time.

I'm thinking Quincy goes to trial, I'm a go-home, you know, I'm saying, they find him guilty, I'm just kind of going off my emotions of what I'm believing in my head. Just sucks, man. This is okay to be emotional. Both Tamara and Jeff took what's known as Alfred, please.

Legally, it's not an admission upkilt. They don't utter the words I did this on guilty, but it's where the accused accepts that there is sufficient evidence to convict and chooses not to contest it at trial. Jeff Burton went to prison for seven years. The time that was wasted, the more I missed, I should say, my younger son was two, got out

“of his nine, my older son said that she has 14, but once or four, she has 11.”

On our deal that has left him when PTSD. Just like I was pleading to God, you know what I'm saying, so to speak, dude, I can't do it anymore. Similarly, Quincy's ex girlfriend, Tamara, would serve nearly six years of her tenure sentence.

One person who did not take the Alfred play after Quincy was convicted was Austin Leach, the owner of the white cattle act. Austin had a good defense team and decided to take his chances at trial, unlike Quincy's public defender, Austin's attorney methodically dismantled the witnesses in consistencies and pulled holes in the prosecution's narrative.

In one gotcha moment, Victoria Cogwell failed to correctly identify Austin in the courtroom. In the end, the jury returned a different verdict, Austin was acquitted. Our producer, Alice, recently spoke with him, too. He said he was to move on with his life and declined to participate in a recorded interview. Private investigator John Paul, who you've been hearing from, assisted Austin's legal

team. He thinks Austin had more in his favor than just better representation. As a white defender, Austin may have faced a different type of scrutiny than Quincy Cross.

So really, it was the same basically the trial was similar the girls in all, but we had a different

jury. So Quincy's trial was moved outside of Mayfield to another town where the majority of people were white and Quincy is black.

“I think that taking that case to Clinton Kentucky in a little place where the limited jury”

pool made it harder in the jury was 11 white persons and one black. In fact, during this production, John Paul told us he's heard that the one black female juror at Quincy's trial felt intimidated by the other 11. So it's hard for me to believe that race didn't play a role in Quincy's conviction. Meanwhile, following the convictions of Quincy and the others, back in the UK, Tom

Mangled continued his coverage, writing a piece for another British newspaper in April 2009. In it, he tells of their investigation and Susan's heroic efforts. In the US too, the press heralded the citizen's sleuth, who solved a murder.

Virtually every day, she became convinced this may, Quincy Cross in a drug haze, first assaulted

Jessica Kern, then strangled her. Tom emails Susan writing, quote, "I'll make you famous yet." In this 2008 CBS broadcast following the convictions, Susan once again repeated her claim about Quincy's stalking her. She asked so many questions, she says at one point, "Cross started stalking her."

In the following months, Susan is interviewed on Japanese TV and does at least one paid interview for women's own magazine, but it's the hope of a Hollywood film that she's really holding on to. In a radio interview with Tom Mangled, here in the States, he confirms their story is being optioned.

A contract we understand, Susan may have received a substantial payment for. I've read on your website, Mr. Mangled, that there is a film in the works about the subject. I received approximately 15 to 16 film offers, the script has been written and don't ask me who's going to play me because I wanted Brad Pitt.

You've been hearing snippets of it throughout this series.

“In 2010, he headed back to Mayfield to gather fresh interviews, along with noting the local”

concerns over the investigation. He also now finds that the witness stories have continued shifting. His interview with Victoria Caldwell is particularly problematic. Her story has continued to change. Weapons, dates, and vehicles are still confused.

Details that don't match what she said at trial. In 2011, he asked Lacy Gates, Susan's friend and assistant, to speak with Victoria to clarify some things.

When Lacy writes back, she drops a bombshell.

“According to Lacy, Victoria has apparently recanted much-per-regional testimony at Mitch”

she lied and that she now has nightmares about it. Tom fires off an email back to Lacy asking her not to get Susan involved because, quote, "We need her to stay well out of controversy for the purposes of the movie." He then emails Bob O'Neill, directly raising his concerns about, quote, "Victoria's veracity and status as a key witness."

Tom's concerns and questions to the KBI appear to go largely unresolved. And in early January 2012, he emails his doubts to Lacy, "A read this in full because it's explosive."

I'm just beginning to wonder, this is about a tiny worm of an idea in my wine-soaked brain

“that there is a teeny, weeny, itsy, bitsy chance, and we've got the whole fucking murder story”

wrong, and that there may have been a huge miscarriage of justice that Burton and Tamara may be wholly innocent, that Jay was killed on the school playing fields, and that there's something wrong about the KBI investigation. So he's telling me I'm losing my sanity. Now this is a troubling, shocking, I mean, I am athletic over this.

Tom admitting that Susan's story, the one they've been corresponding about for almost a decade, the story that directly contributed to the convictions against many people, might be wrong. Again, we asked Tom to participate in this podcast, he declined, but he did have this to say by an email. He acknowledged that Victoria's statements have changed a lot over the years, but that

he felt after interviewing her twice himself, and discussing these interviews at length with the KBI, and lacking any credible alternative suspect or scenario, he remains convinced that Quincy is guilty, and that Victoria was involved. He also stated that he does not recall sending that email expressing his doubts to Lacy Gates saying, quote, "My feelings in 2012 were not my feelings later, which I changed."

Whatever the extent of his doubts, a few months later, in May 2012, his BBC Radio documentary aired, with the Susan prosecution story unchanged. Victoria's reported recantation is not included. Here's Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, Maggie Freeling, discussing this unsettling turn of events. When Lacy gets involved, she virtually tells Tom this, like, "Hey, there is something awful, like Victoria's recanting, did you know this?" And that's when I see Tom actually

lean more into this theatrics and less journalism because he goes ahead and publishes. This article, in which Victoria is the lynch pen of this whole thing, Maggie cares so much about the miscarriage of justice in this case that she hosted her own podcast, season 3 of Bone Valley, which is devoted to Jessica Current's murder. As a journalist, Maggie thinks Tom needed to disclose in his documentary, the fact that Victoria had allegedly

recanted. He's a journalist when you have a right in front of you, the simplest thing someone saying, "Hey, Victoria recanted, your due diligence before you publish that article is to go talk to Victoria. Did you recant what happened and put it in that article?" He intentionally did not do that. He had this information and did not put it in and that breaks your oath as a journalist to do no harm and tell the truth. We can't be sure if Tom ever did share his doubts

with Susan, or repeat what Lacy told him about Victoria's alleged recantation. But it seems

the idea that something was wrong with the 2008 convictions grew. As did the idea that Susan had

“been seeking to profit from this tragedy. Here she is complaining about the local reaction”

in a 2010 interview with Tom Mangold. What should have been the high point of my life was dampened by negativity. The treatment that I've gotten from a lot of people here. I don't think I deserve it. I've been degraded. I've been called names. It seems Susan was no longer enjoying life in the spotlight. She started receiving hate mail and abusive comments on her MySpace page. One person

even suggested it was she who really killed Jessica. Presumably adding to Susan's disappointment

was the fact that after all her efforts, she also never received the reported $9,000 reward

“money for helping solve the case. Turns out, it had all been spent or donated to charity by city hall.”

If Susan hoped this blowback would eventually pass, she was wrong. As time went on, those rumors would grow into a clamour. As her critics united to try and reverse what was increasingly believed to be a gross miscarriage of justice. I had talked to Quincy once on the phone. I've read his mom, sisters, and his dad, and I had talked with his dad several times and he just wants the sun to get help and get out of jail.

In May, field over the years, rumors of witness coercion spread. Residents banded together and shared theories, wrongful conviction groups got involved, and eventually a free Quincy cross movement built online support. Today, one of the most vocal advocates for Quincy's innocence is perhaps one of the most surprising Jessica current's father, Joe. I would like for it to be on record. That I do feel like that they got the wrong people.

“I don't think that Quincy was involved in Jessica's murder. I think Quincy was involved in drugs”

and Susan knew that and Susan didn't like him and he was a newcomer to Mayfield. And so she put him in it and they stayed with that story. The victim's own father believes Quincy to be innocent. I've seen this in other cases. In fact, here, Joe Kerns been working with Quincy's dad David for years to help him get his son's conviction overturned. Now, at this point, we should probably acknowledge a voice you haven't heard

from in this series. Quincy's. A bit like Ed is 2008 trial. He now chooses to remain silent. We're in touch with his legal team and have exchanged emails with Quincy. He told us he can no longer trust the media after everything he's been through. And that's understandable.

However, he has spoken out in the past. Here's what he had to say in 2023 to the Unforbidden Truth podcast.

And he's supposed to be my codependent. Now, with these stuff, for you, I'll be here to probably check that out in too. All right, but that's the main challenge I got together. And I still don't know very well. I don't know. I don't know about the state. I know it's unlocked up for it. It's not my, it's not my, it's not my don't know about it. And it's not right. Because I do know that I did not admit this or risk crying. I do know that.

We did, however, manage to speak with his sister, Rachelle, who still, to this day, can't believe a jury found her brother, guilty. You see, even during the 2008 trial, there was controversy. When one female witness broke down on the stand and recanted. In the end, her testimony wasn't pivotal, but that witness

got sentenced to five years for first to repurgery, which of course would have made others hesitant

Venetia, Jessica's cousin, officially recanted and signed an affidavit in the presence of a

“Kentucky Innocence Project Investigator. It was a bold move.”

Venetia's mom even speaks up, corroborating her daughter's claim, and actually accuses KBI agents of planting the crack pipe in question. Then, in 2014, Joe Current writes an affidavit directly against Susan, quote, "I was contacted by Susan Gaubereth, who was a friend of Jeremy Adams's mother, and she offered her assistance in solving the murder. I later found out that she had no law enforcement or investigative training and appeared to be motivated in part by reward money."

Two years later, it was Susan's best friend, Lacey Gates, who came forward. With a heavy heart, Lacey calls out Susan and writes her own affidavit to say she thinks Susan's story is untrue.

“In her statement, Lacey writes, quote, "It came to my attention during the course of the investigations.”

I feel that Susan Gaubereth directed the police in the wrong direction, and the wrong people were convicted." End quote. In the same statement, she also challenged Susan's decadult claim that she was stalked by Quincy Cross. "She later found out that it was her estranged husband

Marty Gaubereth, but she never corrected this fact to anyone." End quote.

If Susan felt depressed before, Lacey's uterine must have felt like a personal betrayal, at least that's her son Ray's view. "So this was Lacey, basically, you know, like look, I'm kind of like I'm done with my mom, you know." In the end, Ray suspects his mother knew

“deep down. Something wasn't right with her story. "You think she knew?" "I think she knew”

that Quincy didn't do it, but she so far into it, she was under oath saying some things. Just logically, I would think that there was, there's a lot of lies in there that she didn't

want anybody to know." Ray had always wondered why his mom stopped engaging with the

currents after they began to doubt Quincy's conviction. "For me, if my mom wanted to stay in the good of all this, she should have just stayed with the currents. It's their daughter that all this is about. And once again, this goes back to her being wrong." In the end, Ray believed Susan was fixated on what she thought was the ultimate prize, fame and fortune. Tom started throwing movie ideas out. I mean, I could almost see the hamster wheel and my mom's head just

going crazy. Just oh wow, yeah, movies this movie. She talked about the people that would play her, you know, they talked about the people who would play Tom and it's like, as far as my mom is concerned, it's already there. She just got to get there. But as we know, Susan never did get there. Susan drifted away from both Lacey and Tom. She drifted away from Mayfield, slipping further

into depression. "Found out later, she was doing mass, which I never even a million years would have

thought." "To what's the end?" "Yeah." Eventually, Susan left Ray's life as well, but not before landing a final blow. "She told me around the end that she apologized because she could never feel it for me, for a son." "Like parental love?" "She didn't know how to love me as her child." "That's really tough." "Yeah." After that, Susan and Ray were basically estranged. One of the last times he saw her, he was shocked by how much her health had deteriorated. "I've seen

her weaker than I've ever seen her, you know, I've seen her disheveled, you know, my mom was never like that." On July 27, 2018, Susan crashed her car. The responding officer thought she was drunk and he arrested her. It turned out that she'd had a stroke. She suffered another stroke in her jail cell and never woke up. "I found out that happened and that she was in the hospital and I went to go see her, but she was unconscious. It just sucks because she never, I didn't get a chance

to make up with her." "You always think you'll have one more chance, you know, but I did

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In spite of everything Susan did, in spite of everything Ray now knows, she's still his mom. And of course, Ray was left with a terrible burden and still struggles with her legacy, and specifically her lasting impact on Quincy. I just feel so sorry. I'm just so sorry for him. There's nothing I could say to that could undo or change anything that my mother's done.

As it turned out, Ray would end up doing something incredible.

Something that would give Quincy his best shot at freedom yet. Remember back before Quincy's 2008 trial, how Susan refused to send his defense team all over hard drives and email correspondence? Well, once Ray started working with Alice's colleagues at Blink Films, they didn't just realize Susan was a liar. They realized they had the means to expose her wrongdoing, and perhaps get Quincy a retrial.

What these emails were were conversations between Susan Galbrith and Tom Mangold and Susan Galbrith and the KBI, and the emails to me were shocking. If during Quincy's trial, I think if they'd known the extent of Susan's involvement in this case and influence on law enforcement, it might have changed the outcome for Quincy. And so the next stage was, well, we need to give this evidence to someone and there was this ethical obligation to give it to the innocence project

“that we're working to get Quincy out of prison. So that's what we did.”

The person who they turned them over to was Miranda Helman, Quincy's attorney at the Kentucky Innocence Project. And so when those emails came through, it took a while. It took a minute.

There was a shock factor to it of there's something to this. Miranda had always felt Susan was a

major factor in the prosecution's case, but was never quite sure how. So we spent a straight 24 hours so I am pretty sure I didn't sleep that night, going through cataloging, trying to

turning in a lock. Suddenly, she understood. She also finally understood why it was that

“more information hadn't been available to Quincy's original defense team.”

Another piece of these emails really pointed to her working with the KBA agents to ensure that as little information got turned over to Quincy's attorneys. And so once I solved that other side of the coin, the back side of the coin was cheesy. It was slimy. It was meetings in a diner about how to not have to turn over information to a subpoena. With the emails in hand, and witnesses now were counting, Miranda petitioned for a new

evidentiary hearing for Quincy Cross. And in October 2025, she was successful. The hearing was eventually scheduled by Judge Tyler Gill for three days over late November and December of the same year. Time was against them, but Miranda hoped they finally had enough grounds to warrant a retrial. Quincy met a perfect storm when this investigation in trial happened. Now that he has his evidentiary hearing and all of this new evidence has been presented very thoroughly. I'm hoping

that this is the perfect storm, the good perfect storm that comes at the end for him. It's November 24, 2025. One day before the new hearing is due to begin. The big news is that the judge will focus on the recantations of four women who testified against Quincy in

2008, including the prosecutions to crucial eyewitnesses, Venetia stubblefield and Victoria

Caldwell, both of whom confessed to being accomplices to the crime and took reduced sentences in exchange for testifying against the others. Testimony that they have both admitted now was false. Our producer Alice sits down with Venetia, who's apprehensive about seeing the former KBI agents at the hearing. "Follows to see them today. I will tell them the same thing they told me that I'm going to see to it that you rotten prison by lethal injection. Like you

didn't mean in my mother." Then you sit there and made a third saying that you'll see that we're spending the rest of our life in prison and that we're a dying prison by lethal injection. I have no

“respect for you at all, period. And that's what they did to me in my mom and my family. They threatened us.”

Venetia remembers the 2007 jewelry and interviews, like they were yesterday. "The KBI, like when they were doing my interview with staff, it was like they were talking to me and we were talking. But then like off camera and off record, they were still hearing culture me and then called hard to meet in and just said, "This is what you're from to say and this is what

you're going to say." So wait a second, the KBI stopped and started this video-taped interview,

that is a huge red flag. If what Venetia says is true, that would explain a lot. We already heard clips of those agents, practically telling the girls what to say on camera. I can only imagine what was said while it was turned off. Venetia is now driven by the need to write the injustice and account for the harm she contributed to, starting with the currents. I'm sorry for everything that is any kind of harm that has came to you. I truly deeply apologize

of everything that has happened and I hope that they can get some closure and they find the answers that they need. But for the most part, I'm so so sorry for your loss. Venetia blames much of this unsusence meddling. I'm glad she's dead, she got what she deserved. Because to look at all the harm that she done to everybody else, look at all the harm and dangerous things that you call us everybody and their families as well. The other witness who had been called to testify

is of course Victoria called well. Now one of the new pieces of evidence submitted for this hearing was a statement made to the Kentucky Innocence Project Lawyers in 2023, where Victoria recanted her original testimony. However, she's refused to put that recantation in a signed affidavit. Now they understand that Victoria has been subject to a lot of pressure by the prosecutors, but Quincy's defense is hoping now is finally the moment she'll recant under oath on the witness

stand. Not surprisingly, Victoria was reluctant to speak with any media around the time of the hearing.

“Our producer, Alice, had been trying to get an interview with her from months. When?”

Now tap on add contact button and search for the contact you want to call and then tap on merge

Hello, I'm so glad that I'm speaking to you today. We've been communicating for a while,

right? I didn't know if you would ever speak to me, so I'm super grateful that you decided to speak with me. Victoria was a little nervous, but gradually opened up. Are you telling me that diary was fabricated? Yeah. So you just did they tell you what to write? Or, um, I really can't. Okay. Okay. Back then. But, all we could say is that the fact that diary was fabricated. Oh, back then. The diary they're discussing was a piece of evidence produced in the 2008 trial

that appeared to contain a written confession by Victoria, implicating Quincy.

“Just let him, had you met him this all? Never. And that's not all. What about Quincy?”

Have you met him? Never. You've never met Quincy, cross.

Okay. How did that story come about? It's you've never met Quincy? I feel like we really want to happen. I don't know. On the phone call with Alice, Victoria also claimed she was threatened by then KBI agent Lee Wise to repeat the Quincy murder story or phase death by lethal injection. She claimed the Quincy story was drilled into her and rehearsed before trial. Now, after all these years, Victoria says she wants to see Quincy

exonerated for the crime he didn't commit. This is a lot to wrap you head around.

“We also have to say that even in our own conversations with these women, new details and new accusations”

came up that we can't fact check or easily corroborate. Their stories have changed a lot over years of retelling. At the very least, most importantly, in my opinion, these are not reliable witnesses. Certainly, not witnesses on which a conviction should rest. Also, I have to say they take some courage to come forward now, legally, both these women could face charges for perjury, if it's deemed that they lied on this stand in 2008. As far as I can see, they really have nothing

to gain personally by speaking to us, unless they're just trying to clear their conscience. Then again, speaking to podcasts producers, which is not under oath, and then repeating these claims on the witness stand, which is under oath, two very different things entirely. Fabio Cementilli. Big hearts, big voice, big laugh. A rock star hair stylist who drove a Porsche, he was like a wizard behind the chair. The killers came for Fabio and his own backyard.

You can't rationalize it, you can't figure it out. There was rampant speculation about everything, but every wild theory was wrong, because the truth was even more unbelievable. And even more heartbreaking. The uncertainty of not knowing is a form of agony. From Sony Music Entertainment and novel, this is Cut Color Kill. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Cut Color Kill is available now on the bench. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to

start listening today. Subscribers to the bench can listen to all episodes, all at once, and free. Infamous is the gossip show that's smart. We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down top model. We talk about Jenna Jamison and how she dominated the 90s. You know, she's horny and she's in charge. She just was very smart about marketing herself. We talk about celebrities who

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the gossip show that's smart. The show's called Infamous. On November 25th, 2025, Quincy's new evidentiary hearing begins.

Tom and Susan to be used as new evidence at this point. They would need authentication to be

admissible, which given that Susan is dead and Thomas in the UK would take time. So the pressure is now on the witnesses to go on the record with their recantations. The courtroom is packed, media, locals, the current and cross families. Jessica's now grown-up son Zion attends with his wife. Susan's son Ray also decides to attend the hearing, in spite of knowing how his mom is perceived. He's quiet and contemplative.

I mean, I'm supposed to do this. If she were alive, she wouldn't want me

“cooperating with anybody the way I am, but I think where she's at now,”

I think she would want to rest in peace. And if there's any way that I can use the stuff that she has to bring peace to anybody, even her, that's all worth it. Day one of the hearing gets off to a good start for Quincy, who is present. Sitting in his orange jumpsuit next to his defense team, he will remain silent, but he is watching carefully. A reminder to those on the stand that it's his life, his future. That's at stake.

One of the minor witnesses, another Mayfield woman, was just a 12-year-old girl in 2000,

“and was a new mom at the age of 19 when she was compelled to testify against Quincy Cross.”

testimony she now recounts under oath. Next up is Vinisha. She takes the stand, and she lets loose. More than just recounting, she comes out and accuses law enforcement of coercing her. I repeat that for you. Everything that I testified to was a lie. She repeats her allegation that KBI agents leave wise and Bob O'Neill called her what to say, and threatened her and her family.

If the judge finds this testimony reliable, this is a huge moment for Quincy. As day one comes to a

“close, everyone's thoughts turn to tomorrow, and whether Victoria called well will do the same.”

It's day two of the hearing. The courtroom is settled and proceedings have begun. A door opens quietly, and a late arrival hurries in. It's Victoria, accompanied by her husband. There are looks and whispers in the gallery, many didn't think she'd turn up, and the dramatic siren over. Victoria is called to the stand, but after answering a few basic questions, confirming who she is. She decides to exercise her fifth amendment rights to remain silent.

Victoria has decided not to repeat her recantation on the stand at this time. The judge dismisses her, but as Victoria hurries out of the courtroom, Benisha leaps up and explodes in a rage. In the end, Benisha has to be held back from attacking her. It's a blow for Quincy, no doubt about that. The hearing resounds a couple of weeks later for

a third and final day. The defense attorney now turns her attention to the former KBI agents accused

of coercing the witnesses in order to produce the murder narrative against Quincy Cross. Lee Wise and Bob O'Neill. On the stand, former agent Wise is clearly rattled, and repeatedly loses his temper, shouting over Quincy's attorney. Eventually, the judge stands up and intervenes, as you heard at the beginning of this episode.

I won't get into the weeds, but the red technique is a controversial, highly

“confrontational method for eliciting confessions from suspects. It's also known to produce false”

confessions, especially in the case of vulnerable individuals. I'm going to start clearly hard to ask him a question, and to ask him directly, I'm going to ask you to listen to my question and respond to that. So that we don't we don't do this back and forth in the long and over to the okay. But the back and forth does go on. Former KBI agent Lee Wise denies everything.

His former partner, Bob O'Neill, is calmer under questioning, but also doesn't give away much.

“After three days, the evidence is completed. In total, four of the prosecution's original witnesses,”

women whose testimony helped secure Quincy's conviction, told the court that parts of what they said in 2008 were false, pressured, or shaped by investigators. Test-money that supported a narrative many now believe was heavily influenced if not authored by Susan Gowbreath. But will it be enough for Judge Gill to set aside Quincy's conviction? Jeff Burton, the white guy Susan accused of

disposing of Jessica's body, who served seven years for a crime he has always insisted he didn't

commit, shares his point of view outside the courtroom. I was excited for what has happened today.

“And things are looking bright, but I am nervous as well, because I do know, come with a Kentucky.”

Obviously, they don't whatever would admit that they've done wrong of messed up or whatever. For Ray though, this has been a reckoning with who his mother was, with what she did, and with the part he now plays and shaping a new narrative. By stepping forward, by allowing Susan's story to be examined, Ray is part of something different, a chance to rewrite at least some small part of what went wrong in Mayfield, something Jeff Burton and others are keen to thank him for.

Can I introduce you to someone? Yeah. This is Raymond Susan's son. Okay. Okay. There's a meeting man. I'm John Poole. How are you turned overlawed a lot of this stuff to the to the thing, man? It's beautiful, master. Thank you, man. Thank you for doing that. Yeah, really. It was a great to appreciate it, man. So hopefully we can get this thing busted open all the way. As Alice bids farewell to Ray, she can see the emotion etched onto his face.

After the guilt Ray has carried all these years, Jeff's words of thanks hit hard.

It was nice to finally meet Jeff. You know, they've all these people been in rent free in my

head for, you know, so long. Now it's, it's good to, you know, interact with and see him face to face. To be told, thank you, and I mean, it's a big deal. By the time this episode airs, we'll likely know the outcome of the empty-anchery hearing. Will Judge Gil discredit the recantations, leaving Quincy incarcerated for life, or will he grant a retrial or even an exoneration? In a case that would now be extraordinarily

difficult to prosecute with witnesses who have recanted in some form and little forensic evidence

to support it. For 17 years, his maintained his innocence. Years he'll never get back.

As his sister told us for Quincy, the stakes are not abstract. But whatever happens in court, whether or not Quincy gets a retrial, one fact will not change.

that was warped by Susan Gauberth produced a narrative that placed her at the center,

“right where Jessica should have been. This podcast is in part a cautionary tale about what happens”

when the desire for a compelling story begins to eclipse the facts. When narrative overtakes humanity, when the people pulled in become characters, when storylines replace real lives. You know where is that more painfully felt than with the currents? For 25 years, Jessica's family has watched the story of her murder, twist, and mutate.

Re-shaped by rumor, reinvention, interference, and false hope. They have never received clarity,

an apology, or justice. What's the truth? That's what we're trying to find.

“That's what we don't know. Who killed Jessica Current?”

Because honestly today, we still don't know. At the time of release, we have not received a response from the Kentucky State Police, the Office of the Attorney General of Kentucky, former State Trooper Sam Steeger, or former KBI agent Lee Wise, regarding allegations reported in this episode. A legal representative for former KBI agent Bob O'Neill responded by email saying he "categorically

“denies the narrative and the specific allegations." Unlock all episodes of my mother's lies”

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That's all episodes all at once. Search for the binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page. Not on Apple, then head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. This is my mother's lies, an original production of Sony music entertainment and message heard, hosted by me, Beth Carrus. From message heard, Alice Arnold is our investigator producer, Robin Simon, our producer, McAllister Bexon, our series producer, Tiago Diaz, our assistant producer.

Alan Leer is our supervising sound editor, supported by sound editor Lizzie Andrews, and I've an easily with original composition by Mike Maynes. From Sony music entertainment, our executive producers, our Katherine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. From Blink Films, our executive producer is just in Khrusha and a big thanks to the whole Sony music entertainment team.