Padma Takes On Top Chef, Judging Secrets, and the Evolution of Food TV!!

So our so many cooking competition shows now is the market to saturated is Padmas new show coming for top chef. Bigger money pot, go to get to top chef empire. And for a walking confession, we get a behind the scenes of Iron Chef from a baby Joe Flam back in the day.

And I never signed anything so I don't care.

So I'm going to fucking blow this up. First we need 10 seconds of your time. Please go back to rate and review this show wherever you are getting your podcast. It really helps a lot and we appreciate all of your work to help keep the show going. We have America's culinary cup coming up.

We have Padmas. Right. Who left top chef and now is launching this seems to be, you know, she laughs. She did some other things, right? She wrote some books.

She was doing, you know, Padmas. She had her so cute. Yes, yeah, a couple different things, but now this is same format for the most part, launching on the same day, gathering a chef's bigger money pot, go to get to top chef empire of charm.

So it's like, who's Brady, who's Bill Chuck, it's like, this is, I feel like we're going to find out. Well, Padmas, like in one way, it's like Padma built top chef, but now she's like coming for top chef, it's like, oh, this is, this is early 2000s paper, it's trauma. I love it.

I'm here for it's I get it, I'm, yeah, I really know the sports references.

“And I think, because it's like, okay, Padma left top chef has come, Chris and Kish comes in,”

phenomenal job. She's crushing it. Right. Got a new season coming out, we got North Carolina coming up, right? Yep.

Stackless the chefs on there, I know there's some people, I think, on that list that you know for sure, some friends might have that list. We had a Chicago, old Chicago and I know secret bears out on there, and then there's a couple of kids who are out of Michigan, now who are like a husband, wife, combo, who they were in Chicago before that, I know that.

But again, you know, top chef always gets a great list, always gets massive mix of

people on there from all over, of all levels, really, really talented group, right? Padmas show is looking like it's leaning more towards heavily established fine dining chefs. So it's a little bit different in the way that where top chef has a lot of diversity in the types of cuisines and styles that the chefs cook. It looks like America's culinary cup.

It's like, they've got Phil Tessie, Budalo is coming back for the competition, like, you know, and all of there's so many other people, obviously, but those two, like, definitely stood out. Right.

“I think it's interesting, because you have those big names, like, Budalo's probably”

the biggest, like, you know, for lack of a better word, maybe like commercial name on there. That people are out. People know people know. But like Katie Budalo's a big name, Katie Budalo's a really big name, I think, in, you

know, in the food space as well. But then you have, like, you know, Phil Tessie is one, you name where it's like, I don't think a lot of people know who Phil Tessie is, or if you ask somebody on the street, but like chef lies, you know, that dude, he's a legend. He won, but cuis to or that is, like, insane, like, you people need to Google that.

It is insane. Right. So like, and then you have a bunch, and then everybody else in there is hitters, right? It's all hits. It's all, you know, literally you and Beverly Kim.

Oh, yep. Beverly Kims it there, who's, you know, incredible Diyada from Chicago, from me Tokiah is a phenomenal chef. Chris Morgan. I don't know if you know him, he was the opening chef it made in.

Oh, nice. And he worked at, got he worked at, like, the damn name before that, and he's a monster chef. Like, it's a list of, like, hitters on hitters, very serious, but very, it does seem very fine dining.

“And I think you see the judges too, right?”

Where they brought in. Right. While he's playing. Who? Michael Simarusti, right?

Yeah. Simarusti. Who are, like, pinnacles of fine dining, kind of, of, like, I feel like that, like, 2010 era? Yeah.

Like, these were both, they're doing it, they're both still super successful. But I feel like that, like, growing up in restaurants, those were, like, constant names you're hearing about. And like, that golden era of molecular gastronomy, especially with widely, right? Yeah.

I would like WD50. Yeah. Pretty linear, widely do frame was, like, the only one really in the US, kind of, that

from what I remember hearing, coming up as a cook, like, I remember always hearing about

him. And then you started to see it enter other markets like Chicago, West Coast, but widely do frame, kind of kicked it off with WD50. Yeah. I remember, you just hear stories about it.

This is, you know, pre-insogram pre-all these things. So, like, before his cookbook came out, you just hear stories about the crazy stuff they would do it. I think it's really interesting where it's, like, so it's position super similar. I know I sent you the clip yesterday, but it's like, they're showing the kitchen and

the kitchen looks like a similar layout, right? It looks a lot like our Colorado kitchen, where it's, like, it's got the wood fired

the difference, you know what? I noticed the big difference, though, they trade instead of, like, stainless steel. It's like white surfaces, which is, like, it just looks different. It's, like, more fine dining kitchen, because it's like, oh, you better work real clean, because that's not a stainless steel countertop.

You better work. Everything's going to show.

“But I think, like, that's interesting, and I think, you know, top chef go to North Carolina.”

I think North Carolina, you know, that's not a place I know a ton of bout, and, you know, it's like, maybe I did go there this year. I can't say, as of yet. But I think it's a cool landscape of, like, you have coast, you have mountains, gear on the tip of Appalachia and low country cuisine, so like, I think that is one of the really,

really cool things about top chef is that the seasons, you know, are so impacted by geographically where they are. Yeah. And that's so cool, because we get to see it, and we get to know some of the like culinary influences of that area, we get to see the chef interacting with that environment and the influence

that it has. And I wonder, I don't know how it's going to go on Patmos new show, but I'm wondering if there, if every challenge is within the kitchen, because it does seem like it is a little bit more contained, because okay, I have a confession. I may or may not have been contacted about applying to be on America's culinary cup when

they were, when they were curalling chefs for it. You, you, you decline the offer. I mean, I have a job, like I can't, if I had a restaurant, that's the difference between doing private work and being in a restaurant. In a restaurant, it's hard enough, right?

“You have to shift people around to be able to cover you if you need to go away for a while,”

which is already hard, but as a, you know, a person who's doing private work with a client, I have to be on call. I may not cook every day during that two month period, but I'm on salary to be on call when this person is in New York. So I have, I can't say I'm going away for two months while I'm being paid.

You also don't have a team, so it's like, you know, if I'm leaving, it's like, you know, it might cost me more money to leave, because I'm going to have to hire extra bodies to cover the fact that I'm not there to cover whatever I do to cover, but I have people on people, right? Yeah.

And so I think like that's the advantage of restaurant, as you have seen. Right. You know, it's, it's so different. Exactly, it's like a couple of days, no problem. I can prep the food and have it.

I can leave instructions for one of the staff to like heat up or serve or all that stuff. If it's, you know, just one or two people. But if, you know, if somebody's having four course dinner for 15 people, while I'm out of town, that's a big problem. Yeah.

And like, I can't, you know, I can't sacrifice my job to go do its television show for two months.

Also kind of like, with Nina Compton said, you're like, I already came in second once,

“like, what if I do another show and I like, ship the bed on the first challenge?”

That would be wildly embarrassing. And I can get over that, but it is the fact that like, I'm accountable for my time that I'm paid for. Right. So I can't just roll out.

No. And as somebody who just went out of another show lost on the first challenge, you know, I can speak to this a little bit. Can you tell us the show? Uh, it was when I was just on tournament in champions.

Okay. Yeah. I would earn. Yeah. And I lost on the first challenge.

You know, being in the qualifier against my good friend Dan Jacobs, but that's a different feel. It's a different field on top chef. You know what I mean? Where it's like top chef, that way it felt a lot heavier of like, oh, my God, what

if I go home first, it felt like there was like, kind of a, you know, a what's it called

to it? You know what I mean? Stigma. Stigma being like first out there where it's like, turn on any champions. It feels different.

It's a little bit more lighthearted. It's a little bit more fun. You know, you got like the randomizer. And so it's like a little bit more, you know, tongue and cheek, right? And also, okay, talk all the, all the, it's okay that you want to, but also, you already

one top chef. So it's a little bit, there's less of a stigma if you go out first because you've already won a show. And also doing top chef was, I mean, for me, at least it was my first time doing a cooking competition show.

So going out early, you know, it's like, that's, that's the tone. You set for your career almost versus something like tournament champions where everybody is established. Yeah. I guess that's a really good point.

You know what I mean? It is like a lot easier to be like, oh, well, I've won before. So it's like, I can, you know what I mean? Feel a little better about it. But it's still hard.

You know what I mean? You still feel like, you know, 'cause like, especially, you know how it is. Like, we've been on a competition show together. And once you go on, everybody's like, you win, you win, you win, oh, I bet you want. I bet you want.

And it's like, no, did I get cooked in the first round?

And I was there for a day and like, I had a great time and I would absolutely do it again.

And I was, you know, feeling all those nerves going into it, like you just talked about, like, what if I go and I just lose right away? Will that be like so embarrassing for me? Right. I've like the last time I'm on TV, I'm winning top shaft.

And now the next time I'm on TV, I'm going home in a qualifier. Right. But you know what, like, this is going to be like, this is, like, cheesy, but what helped me, like, really kind of wrap my head around it and like, excuse me, like, hard at it. I'm like, how can I go and I sit here and one of the things that's like, now that I have kids,

it's like, have to talk to my kids about, like, you know, like, when they lose like a basketball game and be like, like, you know, they're super upset and they're mad and I'm like, okay, like, come on, like, it's a game. Right. Right.

Like, don't let this, like, what are you doing? Like, don't, like, you know, crash out because you like lost the game. And then it's like, you know, I'm like telling us, have a year old this, expected that to be able to regulate their emotions. And then I'm going on some silly TV show and be like, oh, no, I'm going to crash out

because I lost and like, not want to watch it and like, you're like, I said, a good example for the kids.

“But it's like, but that's how you feel when you're in that situation.”

You know, I mean, like, you feel that like, you know, frustration, that shape, that whatever. So I think that's helping to give me some perspective. But I think this is, you know, this shows brand new show. You know, it's the biggest purse that's ever been out there.

Yes, a million dollars. Million bucks. That's totally moly. What is top chef? Is it $250,000?

I think it's $250,000. I think it's $250,000. How much was it when you won? Was it $100? $125.

Okay.

So I think the price there, but it's, that's not a million.

That's not a million, dude. A million. That's, I mean, that's real talk. That's, I, when I heard the price was a million, I was like, maybe I could risk it all for, because I win this, even after paying taxes, I would have recouped my losses.

Well, and I mean, like, you know, a friend of mine reached out, they were considered

“right, do I? I was like, I mean, like, whatever, how many chefs are on it, 12?”

It's something like that, yeah, I think it's like, well, it's like, when else are, when else are you going to have an opportunity where you have better odds, one in 12 of what you've been doing. You know what I mean? Like, if I sold you that lot of ticket, you'd buy it every day.

Oh, hell yeah. So I mean, like, it's a tremendous opportunity. But it is a lot to put yourself out there. And like, I think, you know, people don't realize, you know, the mass of time commitment these shows are, you know, where you're a couple months stopping your life.

We're TOC also isn't that massive of a time commitment. So it's like that that's the other, like, a lot more light-hearted. With a lot of shows now, what they do is if you get eliminated, you get to go home instead of having to stay sequestered.

When we did top chef, if you went out first, second, third, whatever, you were still sequestered

for that entire two-month period. Yeah. We all went home the same day. People going home, like, oh, you went out early because that people in your lives and in the restaurant community would know that you went out earlier, didn't win.

So it was just like, nope, just send everybody back at the same time and nobody on that. Yeah.

“And I think that's what they did with this one, too, with this new padmashow.”

But I think, you know, one of the interesting things to me about it, it's like top chef, I think, is interesting because I felt like top chef was the first cooking show where you also had the reality portion of it. What we were other show would they would say, oh, we're going to shoot morning reality or night reality.

I think it's what they called it. Okay. Remember, and like, they would come in just like, film us at the house. Yeah. I would just block myself in a bedroom, honestly, I was like, if I don't give you anything

to work with, you don't have anything to work with. But they had that portion of it. It wasn't just chefs cooking in the kitchen, there was we were being at the house. We were getting up in the morning. We were being in cars on our way to things, you know, there's all these other parts

to it.

And I felt like that was the first show that I ever did that.

Yeah. So I'm curious with the stuff, you know, hearing about this new show where they're like, we want, you know, the best chefs cooking the best food, right? It's like so is that reality piece of it removed? Oh, probably.

I mean, that's a real wonder, yeah. Like, because I haven't seen anything on that, like, where are they living on? They in hotels or is it just like, they cook, they go home. We don't see them when they go home. I mean, it's just that classic format of a chopped or tournament of champions where you

see them cooking, and you see them in an interview. That's it. Right. Right. There's no, you know what I'm saying.

No reality side to it. Yeah. Because like, I do remember when I got the call from one of the producers on the show, I was kind of, hi, first of all, I'm like, oh, wow, you guys thought of me like, that's dope.

I would love to do the show. And then the more I got into the reality of going away for two months, I was like, I don't know if I can make this happen. But when they were talking me through the process, was really cool to hear that they were changing things up significantly from the way they did it on top chef.

So I kind of saw it as like, Padma is coming for top chef in a way, challenging the show, but also changing the paradigm a little bit.

You know, we're not going to stress people out with crazy challenges.

“You have to run a mile up a hill and then come down the hill and a shopping cart and then”

jump out and start cooking. Like they weren't doing any of that. None of that. Nothing like fish in this pond and catch a trout and then you can go cook it. It was just like, cook the best food that you possibly can and hear some parameters for the

challenge. But it was just like, we want these chefs to make the best dishes that they can in whatever theme we give them and they were challenging them in different ways on like different styles of cuisine. So you have to be able to know a little pastry.

You have to know other cultures, cuisines. You have to pretty much all the things that you think of for a well-rounded chef. What makes a well-rounded chef? Understanding of different techniques, understanding of different cuisines.

All of that, they were trying to wrap up in this show and take away the stressful drama

and just focus on the technique which I thought was really cool. And I was like, I could thrive in that environment. I think that's really cool.

“And I think from a chefs perspective, we think that's really cool.”

But I think it's one of those things where it's like, you know, there's a ton of cooking shows out there, right? And there's a ton of cooking competition shows out there. Yeah. And I think they're hard to make, like really good ones.

Like we've even seen, you know, like, you know, that relaunch of iron chef, they brought back. Yeah. And they had monster names on that, you know, Netflix, it was going to be huge. And I think just didn't catch, you know, for some reason, there's that one that just

came out next to a chef, we'll see if that one comes back, you know, there's a... Next level chef. There was another bravo one around the world in 80 plates, you know, there's been a million top chef spin-offs, you know, top chef amateurs, that, you know what I mean? There was one season of that.

The top chef masters, which I think were the best, you know, from a chef perspective,

but it's like they must not have done well because they've never run them back.

For me as a chef, like the greatest, the top chef masters were the greatest parts of the top chef franchise, but I think for viewers, they must not have felt the same way. So I think there's an interesting dynamic for, like, as chefs, what we want. Right. So that'll be the interesting thing I think with this show is like, you and I here, it's

all about the cooking. It's, we're like, oh, let's go to you're going to set me up. You're going to give me a full armory, you're going to give me a full everything. And I just got to go toe to toe, your best, my best, you know, being controlled conditions, everything we need, we're not in a food truck, we're not at, you know what I mean?

15,000 feet of elevation, and we're just going to, you know what I mean? It's the, you know, I'm going to point at the middle of the ring. You're going to meet me there and we're going to throw. Right. Right.

We're going to throw until the clock goes. Right. Chefs are like, give me that all day, but viewers, but does that make a good show is what we're going to see. That's the most exciting part to me.

It's like, is that going to make a show that people are going to be super into? I also wonder, because there are so many cooking competition shows now, is the market to saturated? Why are cooking shows so popular? Like, I have so many questions about this in general.

Like, when we were growing up and coming up, a lot of cooking shows were Paul Prutom in the kitchen, Rachel Ray, or GAM can come to Julia Child, Emerald, right? Like, all these shows are showing how to make something. Standing to the kitchen, and they were making a dish every day, they were teaching you how to cook.

Those were cooking shows. Cooking shows existed as like teaching how to cook. And the only real competition show that was out there was like the OG Iron Chef, right? Yes. And then, you know, it was like all like super dub Japanese, and then they started to have

American chefs there. And then Bobby Flay shows up and wins at the cutting board, and then everybody's not to be flay because he stood out of cutting board.

“I remember that episode so vividly, I was sitting on my couch.”

I think I was in college when it came out, and I was just sitting there watching it and he jumped up on the cutting board. I was like, oh, what were you doing at everybody from that moment? That's, I think, why they started that show beat Bobby Flay, because everybody was so angry at him, he was like the villain in the culinary world.

But I mean, it's just interesting how it's shifted. Now that I feel like there's way fewer of those shows where they're just showing you how to cook, right? And it's like, none of them are like the really, really big name chefs. You know what I mean?

Guy Fieri doesn't have a show where he's just like, hey, it's Tuesday with Guy, and we're making, you know, Flayvertown, and Chaladas. That doesn't exist. I think as much, you see it more, I feel like now with like celebrities, where you have like Stanley Tucci and like, you know, Selena Gomez and, you know, like all these

like big name celebrities who they'll have chefs on cooking with them. I think the only person really in that space still is like, I'm a garden. Yeah. Yeah. Martha Stewart's not in the kitchen cooking and doing stuff like that.

And I think you made a really good point.

Now it's about entertainment.

“And I think something that is really interesting is that now people are learning how to”

cook by watching videos on social media. And they're watching the cooking shows for entertainment. So if I want to learn a technique or if I want to learn how to make sheet pan chicken with roasted mushrooms or something, I'm not necessarily watching the cooking shows for that. I'm consuming that on TikTok or IG.

Right. So it's less than a sheet of Instagram and watching her, you know, make something. But it's like, could you can do that from there? That's not, you know, I mean, you don't have to create a whole show. You know, there's influencers all over the world, where they're just doing cooking out

of their apartment and backyards and wherever it may be. So I think it's just an interesting shift. So it's like, one is like, is there room in this space for another great cooking competition show? And I love them.

You know what I mean? I think they're really fun. And I think anything, you know, the one thing I'll say about going on tournament of champions

is in that space, like, you know, the first day like Guy Fury sits everybody down.

And he's like, hey, he's like, this is about you. This is about you getting your name out there, your brand out there. This is about bringing awareness to what you're doing. Like, talk about your restaurants, talk about your food, talk about whatever's important to you while you're out there.

You don't know how many episodes you get. You don't know how much time you get, like, get your brand out there. Get your name out there. Like, anything you can do, that's what this is about.

“And so I think like, cooking shows as a functionality of that are super, super important, right?”

It's hard to get your brand out there. It's hard to run a restaurant. It's hard to, you know what I mean, plant your flat. Like, you know, it's like, like, we were talking, you know, when we were talking to Eli when you were talking about how, you know, the pinnacle of chefs he makes fun of, he goes,

because it's been the same 10 people at the top 20 years, right? For 20 years. And you're like, you know, and that was kind of like a, whoa, like, yeah, you're right. So it's like to try to break into that, you got to do anything you can. And I think these cooking shows provide a great vehicle for the you and me's coming

out, trying to, you know, mark our flags next to these giants. Yeah. These guys, these guys. You can be an amazing chef. You can have four restaurants, one restaurant, six restaurants and cook amazing food across

all of your outlets, but how do you cut through the noise? How do you get people's attention to know that that you exist, that your restaurants exist, that they should come to them? How do you, like you said, put yourself out there and get those eyes on you, which translates into butts and seats, which at the end of the day is what keeps restaurants open as

people coming into them. So I love that he tells you guys to go ahead and talk about it, because a lot of times his chefs were really timid and don't want to feel like we're shooting our own horn too much.

We're always, you know, chefs are kind of self-deprecating.

We're kind of like, I don't want to see an egoistic or self-centered. So we always downplay and going on television is like, no, this is your chance to do that. So I love that he actually encourages the chefs to do it because he's right. You never know how many shots you're going to get to get these people's eyes on you.

So when they come to your town, they can come to your restaurant or if they live in your area, they can come to your restaurant. Right. You never know what, you know, all the stuff we do, you know, media, whatever it is shows,

“like what's going to hit for somebody in what market?”

And so it'll be interesting, I think, with this show with Padmos News show, like one of them that it's going to tell the top shot. Right. That's crazy. Like, you know, it's like, it'll be interesting, like, is anybody good to say

they think about it? Like, she can be saying anything, like, it's she going to address that. It's time to address that. Like, who? Yeah.

You don't even mean, like, I don't know. I don't know what they're saying. I don't know what they're saying. Yeah. I don't know what they're saying.

Yeah, I don't know what they're saying. Yeah, I don't know what they're saying. Yeah, I don't know what they're saying. Yeah, I don't know what they're saying. Yeah, I don't know what they're saying.

Behind America's culinary cup, are they mad? Is there bad blood? Should we start singing Taylor Swift? Like, is there bad blood? Or is it all good? Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, this is this is Bill Bellachack and Brady. It's like, what I feel like.

This is Bellachack and Brady. Where it's like, when it's all set and done at the end of the day, if everybody's successful, it might be all good, it might be all right. But I think this is, it's just like massive and it's wild and something, you know, we couldn't imagine 10 years ago?

No, absolutely not. So I am excited to see where this goes. And I think it is really, really hard to make a good cooking show.

And you never know what's going to hit with people.

So even if it's something that you and I like. Right. You know what I mean, it may not. Is that translate to the broader market? So this is one side of cooking competition shows.

But there's another side of cooking competition shows that you and I have both been on two besides competing in front of the camera.

And that is a completely different process than what people see when they watch these shows. So should we pull back the curtain a little bit?

“So people can get to know what it's like to judge these shows?”

We would love to be doing a little, should we do a little line check on that? Yeah, and I think it's like, you know,

one of the funniest questions I always get about that.

This people will ask me, and I don't know if you get this where they're like, they're like, well, you know, like, oh, we saw you went back and judged. Like, would you rather be judging or competing? It's like judging. It's like, like, all day.

What? Like, you know what I mean? Like, crazy? Right, right. Judging means, I don't want to say it's really fun.

It's a, you know, whatever I've gotten the opportunity to do it. And I've only ever done it on top chef related things. I did, you know, top chef.

“I think top chef juniors was the first thing I ever judged with, uh, with Curtis Stone.”

And the other co-host was Vanessa LaShay, who was Nicholas Sheez. Nicholas Sheez, why? Which was funny because I didn't know that at the time. I just, she was like, oh, I'm Vanessa and I was like, oh, I'm Joe. And I'm a Hillary tax man at one point during the filming.

She's like, how's it going? I'm like, it's good. I go, you know what I believe is. I'm like, this lady next to me, this co-host. Vanessa and I go, she has her background on her phone is like,

"Nick LaShay from, like, maybe the crease." It was like, so weird and brandy, isn't it? And she's like, that's her husband. I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, I thought she was just like a big boy bed fan.

I was like, oh, that's where it's somebody really never let that go.

Oh, Joe, you cracked me up. That was the first time I had ever, I had ever done it. And I've only ever done top chef once.

“And like going back and getting to sit there on that side of it is mind-blowing, right?”

Yeah, I've only done top chef once, but I've done a lot of shows on food network. Like, I've judged on Beat Bobby Flay. I want to say, I'm at like 14 or 15 times judging on that show. It's a, and it's, it's my favorite to be honest. And you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like famous famous.

Well, you're the judges on Beat Bobby Flay. The judges are on for maybe two minutes of the show. So it's 15 times, maybe a total of 13 minutes across, across all those times, of screen time. But I love doing it.

I've judged on a bunch of food network shows, but only on top chef one time. And every show is so different in how they do the judging. It's crazy. It's like, you're on set for depending on the show. You can be on set for six hours, eight hours for judging a quick segment. On Beat Bobby Flay, they trim it down.

So you're only on set for maybe three hours. And it's efficient. They get you in just in enough time before the cook ends. And the thing, so the reason I love that show so much. So I don't know if, if I can talk about this, but I'm about to. The thing that makes Bobby show so different is how the judges taste the food.

So Beat Bobby Flay is one of the few, or all the Bobby shows actually, are the few shows where the judges eat it twice. You get the dish two times. One time as soon as that clock stops, the food is whisked to the judges off camera. And you eat it while it's hot while it's fresh, still crunchy,

still steaming, because they want you to judge them at the dishes peak. They want all the judges to say, Bobby's best, this chef's best, toe to toe, hot, fresh, they're not giving you one. And then 30 minutes later, you get the other. Do you know who's who's who's who's on that show?

No, you don't know. You're in a blackout trend. Truly blind. You're in a blackout trend. You don't hear. It's, it's close to the stage going against. Nope. Oh, wow. You only get the description of the dish and what their like line is.

So it's, it's told to the judges like it's a menu description. So it could be teriyaki chicken wings with red cabbage coleslaw or it could be Fisherman's pie with whipped mashed potato, brulee topping. It could be anything, but that's all that you get. And you eat the dish right away while it's hot.

You take notes. So all the judges were not influencing each other's thoughts. We're taking notes on the dishes ourselves.

Then we taste the second one, get the description,

take notes on that and then you talk it through with the producers about what you liked and what you didn't like. And then you get on camera, maybe 15 minutes later, and they bring a complete dish that hasn't been touched, but has been sitting there. That has been photographed. It's gotten the beauty shots done. And you just are playing with it on camera.

Like, you know, you take a bite or two, but that's not the actual tasting.

the dishes are going to be photographed for 30 minutes.

So by the time the judges get them, they're cold, they're not like the chef intended it. If you've got a sauce or something, you know, creamy or what it could seize up, it could completely change the eating experience. Right. And, you know, like, that's, see, that's, you know, interestingly because I've only experienced it on top chef.

And I've been on it three or four times, maybe. And, and I've done like elimination challenges and quickfires. And the quickfires is interesting because as you know, like we both did them. And like they told us going into them, they're like, we're going to judge the dishes as quick as we can. We start at random, which side we're going on.

And so like, if you're, especially in those early on quickfires, right when there's 16 of us, if you're last person, it's like, you know, I mean, you hope is, you know, your best ally.

“But like, you know, I did a quickfire. I think it was a Wisconsin season.”

And it was like, either second or third episode. So they're like 14 chefs there.

Wow. And so we were doing a quickfire and we're like working through it. And it was a hops challenge. And so like, they had to cook everything with hops. And it was like, so 14 dishes, it was me and Kish. I'm like, oh my god, we're like, going and going and going.

And that was like my first time doing a quickfire. We're having a rip through 14 dishes. Like, and you're trying to do it at a pace. So that, like, you can get to everybody's dish while it's still in good shape. Right. And you want to fare as a judge. Right. And so it's like, we probably went through. I would bet we tasted 14 dishes in less than 20 minutes.

Whoa. Holy moly.

But it's hard in that one because like in the quickfire, you can't go back, really.

Right. Like you taste the dish. You kind of have to put it in your head and you kind of have to catalog it. And like in my mind, at least I was like, okay, like a level dish, be level dish, see level dish, right? Okay. And like, just trying to categorize them all real quick, put them in my head. And then be like, okay, out of those three A's, what was the best one? And you know how to those three

“C's, what was the worst one? Okay. So like that was, did anybody get these or F's?”

I think I just left it in three and three. Okay. But it was easier to find the worst one than the best one. Okay. You know what I mean? Because I feel like on the best one, you're like, uh, tweak here, tweak there. But like the worst one, you were like, man, this didn't go your way, huh? But yeah, yeah. It's so. But then like when I've had to do the elimination challenges, I think the, the interesting thing about top chef and I don't, again, not having been on a lot of other shows is like

the the judges table and deliberation is there's no time set on that. Oh, so like after we taste when we go to the table, it's, it's like a jury. You sit in that room until you have a verdict. Yeah. And everybody sits there and you go back and forth and you say, you know, because I have in my mind, you know, and I've been on ones where it's like, you know, other people at the table are like, this is the best dish. I was like,

I thought that was the worst dish. Right. Right. Right. That's so crazy. You know what I mean? When I judge top chef too, I was like, are we talking about the same thing? And so it was interesting of like, you know, either like, maybe like me and Tom agreed on the dish or, you know, Chris and a Gallic Read on the dish or me and Chris and a Greed or me and Gallic Read. And like there was some things that we were all universal on right away. So that was interesting.

It's like, once I said it and wherever it was like, yeah, this is, you know, and top chef, it's like the other part of it, like the worst dish really, really matters, right? Mm-hmm. So it's like, you know, sometimes I felt like, I've sat in ones where it's like, this was the best dish. It's not close. You know what I mean? Who are the other top three? But then like, when you got to worst dish, that's where you were really passionate about.

Or vice versa. You know, because then you get into, there's all the like little parts of it of like, okay, well, you have the challenge and how much of this was just like, yo, this was a bad dish. Just straight. This is a bad cooking, bad food. But I will say, like, as somebody, you know, as we both competed on that show, what I did appreciate about going back and judging was like, how serious they took it? Good. Yeah. How thorough it was, how like,

nothing was taken lightly. Every part of it, like, we talked about it for like,

“and it wasn't like, hey, guys, you got 10 minutes. You have to make a decision.”

It was like, the producers left you alone. Right. And they would let you talk for, you know, I was on ones that took 30 minutes. They were easy. It was quick. And ones where it's like, hour and a half, two hours. Do you remember how long we were out there while they were deliberating the finale? Yeah. I was, it was like, it was literal hours. Right. And I did all that is like, you know, for us, on our season, it's like, you know, I remember somebody told me

later, they got the biggest problem with ours was like, because where they filmed it, they had to like, where they were going to shoot, they had to move everything for judges table, right? They had to break everything down. They had to build the judges table there. And then they couldn't build the judges table there while the sun was still up. Oh, my gosh. Because they wouldn't have

was that they had to wait for the sun to go down. And here I thought it was literally on top of mountain and Colorado. I thought the food was just so good that it was really hard to decide.

“Thanks Joe for crushing my... No, but I think that's part of, you know what I mean? That's a really”

big part of it. But I think like the finale's are a little bit easier to judge because it's less people. Yeah, yeah, your dad had to head. It's like one to one, one to one, one to one. So you can line 'em up and be like, you know what I mean? When I judged top chef, there were eight people.

I forget the season that it was. It was, oh, it was the first season that Buddha won. The first time

he won. Oh, you see. Yep. And he won. Nice. Yeah. And we were out on, what was that island off of Houston? Galveston? Yes, we were in Galveston. And as we're sitting, they had just set up the judges table. Like you said, it wasn't built before because that's where the food was being set out and we were doing the tasting. So they had to clear that after we waited an hour, maybe two, and then we can come back out to do the judges verdict and that. When I tell you a storm rolled in,

and it blew Tom's hat off his head. My hair was flying everywhere. The rain just started coming at a sideways. It was like me, sheldon, Padma, Tom, and Gail, and the rain just came in from the left side and like blew everything over. So they had to rush and get the collect the set that was blowing around and rebuild it inside of the building. Yeah. And then we had to redo the dirty table. Like because those top chef days where it's like if you're, you know, if you're at like the

final judge's table, what they're like making those announcement, it's like you're on set for

“a dozen hours. Yeah. Because you have to do the walkthrough in the morning and like, you know,”

whatever it is, like you're there for a long time. Yeah, those are long days. And it's like, you know, it's nice to be on the other side of it where you get to sit behind the desk and you get to have your phone and you get to hang out, like chop it up. So for you, cook or judge, it's judge. What about if you were invited to go on a show, would it be to cook and demo a dish or would it be

to compete like a quick fire 30 minute challenge? Oh, I think like I've always wanted to be on

one of those shows where it's like get to like demo it. Yeah. She knew me and I in a garden should be like, oh, I think Jeffrey's going to love this pasta. Yeah. You know, we're like me and Selena Gomez hanging out like whatever. She hasn't mentioned it bringing me on the show yet. She doesn't know about you. Yeah. When I get to show, she asks me, she's like, who's like,

“I either beat you on top, chef. Oh, that's why I haven't been invited because of you.”

But like I've always wanted to do that. And I think it's part of it like we said earlier, it's like we grew up watching those shows, right? Yeah. And I think that's like when we were coming up like if you were a celebrity chef, right? You know what I mean? If you were a TV chef,

like that's what they were referring to. Right. Right. You know what I mean? You had the

you have the towel on your shoulder and your, you know, you know, studio audience and, you know, the, hey, welcome everybody. You know, like doing that. Like it was like, you know, like, miss those shows. I miss them so much. I used to like, it's like, it's yes, you're learning something because they would drop some food knowledge in there. They would really like deep dive into one technique that's being done on that show. And the dish that's being done,

the ingredients that are being done on that show. And it's also just like, it's kind of relaxing. Like it's just kind of like, ah, you're in somebody's kitchen and they're talking to you while they cook. I really miss those shows. Yeah, I love it. I would watch like hours of shows. You know, I mean, you just put out food that works and you watch, you know, nine hours of emerald. Right, right, right. Right. And you're like, um, and so it's like, for me, it would be that.

You know what I mean? Like, I, I think I like romanticize those shows a lot of my head. And like, you know, they also feel like, like a bygone era, like, you, you couldn't do it if you want it to. You know what I mean? Like, if we were like, oh, we're just going to do Adrian and Joe and we're going to have a live studio audience. You know, how much fun are you kidding me? No, it would be so much fun. We would have a whole last. You could have, I cook the entree or vice versa or I'll do a

dessert today. Oh, my God, Joe, we need to put that. Like, like, that's like, I missed that era of cooking shows. And it's like, and I like, like, listen, go and compete on these shows. Like, I think you said it though. And I think you said a part that people don't talk about enough. Like, it is really scary to put yourself out there like that. It is a super high level vulnerability to be like, oh, I'm going to go and I'm just going to like cook on a TV show in front of the

people on the internet. But I think like, it is a great privilege to get to go and do those things,

“right? That's how we got in this industry. We didn't start cooking because we were like, oh,”

we're going to, like, I really got to figure out a way to get on the Bravo network and I don't think I have the the money to be a real housewife. So, you know, it's like, it's like the cooking shows

are really cool and they're really fun. And I think it's like always, you know, like, even the

last one I did turn into a champions where it's like, got to meet a bunch of new people from different places and that's always really fun and cool. And just, you know, Dan and I were talking like, you got a bunch of, you know, the people you know, who you see on it, it's like, that one was fun because it's like in the downtime, it's like a bunch of people who I knew, who like, I never got a chance to just sit around and chop it up. Right. That's the real, to me, that is the best part

of both competing and judging is the people that you meet, the camaraderie. Some of my closest friends in like the New York cooking world are not just coworkers that I've had working in restaurants online, but people that I like met judging a show with because you're sitting there for a few hours together, you get to know each other, you talk, you have a good time and then you keep if they're cool and like you keep in touch with these people and it's like, I love what you're

doing. I'm going to come check out your new restaurant, congratulations on that new review or that new write up like, you know, it's encouraging, it's that camaraderie and the same thing with competing, it's like, when are you ever around such a high number of people that you have so

much in common with that are all like at the same place, at the same time, it's just such an amazing

thing. Well, like the funny thing so, uh, uh, turn a bit of champions for the qualifier, it's like the way they did it was, you know, there were 16 of us and they put all our names in a bingo ball thing and they rolled the thing and then so you got picked up and so I'm sitting there in a room with 16 people and one of those people is my old boss and mentor Stephanie isard. Another one is Giuseppe Tentori who's a friend of chef, uh, someone who I've looked up to my whole career,

who I almost worked for early in my career. Dan Jacobson is there, somebody I've been friends with for 15 years, you know, who I've clicked together with many times and then there was like a bunch, you know, a couple other names in the room who it's like, I knew who they were or like we had met and so like as the ball started going out of the thing and there were less people in the room, I'm like, we're down to like the chances of me going up against like staff Giuseppe or Dan

are raising by the moment where it's like, this is, this is a very different challenge first,

“one of them versus, you know, some, you know, random person, this is my first time meeting, right?”

But I will say like having to go against Dan, it was like very much made me like, okay, I need to be like, uh, like I have to have my A game, like I know he, like I know the way it cooks, we've cooked together, I know he's not going to like make a mistake. So I can't, you know, I like, I have to be technically perfect because I know he will be. So it's like, I'm not going to win on any technical thing. So this is just going to be like, who has the better dish today?

It's like, you know, the same is like going up against you in the final. It's like, you're not going to forget to season something. You're not going to not taste your food. You're not going to do a dish that doesn't make sense. You know what I mean? Like, it's going to be like that percent in between 99 and 100. Yeah. Where it's like, I'm going to have to beat you and like the same with him. And it's like that day, it's like he had that one percent.

Yep. And you know, it got that one point, but it's like that was kind of like the crazy thing about that one. Where it's like top chef, you know, it's like, we didn't know each other. We get to know each other along the way. Right. Right. And then by the end, we're like, wow. Like, I just, you know, yeah, being in the room with everybody, once you get over the initial nerves of like, wow, we're being, we're really being filmed while we're cooking and doing this. That's a whole new

thing. But once you get over those initial nerves, it was just like, you feel like you're in a room of people who get you. Everybody gets you. They really get you, you all are pushed and driven by the same things. You've had some of the same experiences. A lot of mutual friends. And you know, it's like just two or three degrees of separation sometime. Right. And that is it's such a different push to yourself of like the combo of pushing yourself like creatively with speed on the fly

and it's and it's intoxicating like the feeling of it. You know what I mean? It's like it's one of

“those things are like, you know, when you're like, oh, which one of those shows would you want to do?”

It's like, I don't know, but I necessarily want to do it. Go again. But the feeling when you're in it, you're like, okay. Well, that's a good question. So if you were knowing how top chef is and knowing that it's a lot influenced by the location and knowing the top chef format versus what we've seen from the preview so far of America's culinary cup, Pamela's new show,

Pamela's or top chef. I think it probably be for me and like the way I cook. I think top chef is more advantageous for me because I feel like I cook a lot of life. Fire, I cook a lot of

“rustic style. I think my strength is making it work. It's like, you know what I mean? Whereas like”

that show looks very controlled, fine dining, where I think like that to me from a cooking perspective is like the idea of being in like, oh, we're going to go cook on this beach. We're going to cook in this mountain. Like that part of it is really exciting to me. I like that here. Yeah, you drive in the chaos of it. Yeah, that's that's my shit. Um, so I think I probably still I've been the controlled environment where I know what level of variables can happen versus the wind blowing my fire out while I'm cooking.

Like, I don't want to. Right. Right. Yes. So, so you saying you would go call Eric up? I think so. I mean, I part of me still feels like I have something to prove on top chef. I still want to go back and do that, but the environment and the controlled environment of Padmas Newshow. To me, that looks like the kind of thing that's more my jam. Where you thrive in the chaos of top chef, I can I can do the chaos, but I'm not going to lie. It's I'm a little bit like I freeze up a little bit.

“Right. And I think it's yeah, that's the interesting part of it where I'm just like 30”

second freeze and then I'm like, okay, let's go. But in that other one, I would just be go from the

beginning. Right. Where it's like, yeah, I like the little bit of the thrill of the unknown. So, I think it's, uh, I think after our last episode, I think Europe for walking confession this week. I think you're right. And so, you know, we were talking about all these competitions shows today. And so, I wanted to take it back to the first time I ever did, which, uh, it wasn't top chef. I did one before that. Oh my gosh. Okay. Okay. So, when I worked for

staff, I, and this is how it went out. She had a competition. We called the Iron Goat competition. And I won the first Iron Goat to be one of her sous chefs to go on Iron Chef. Oh, my gosh. So, you guys competed in the restaurant first to see who would go with her? Yes. Wow. So, I won that. I got to go with staff too. And this was like, this was the Iron Chef era of like, Michael Simon and Morty Moto. I think Jose Garciss was one,

I think Kekora was one of the Iron Chefs. Yes. This is a Sippy Zone. So, we get set up. And then,

how the old school that Iron Chef used to work is, you know, and I never signed anything. So,

I don't care. So, I'm going to fucking blow this up. Yeah. Um, was, as the challenging chef, they gave you three ingredients that I could possibly be. Okay. So, they said before we came, they're like, it's either going to be battle bread, battle octopus, or whole bone in New York shrimp. Oh, three wildly different options. So, like, this is like the week before we go. So, staff writes a menu for bread, she writes a menu for octopus, for whole bone in New York shrimp.

“She goes, hey, if it's this one, just figured out. Yeah, that's what I mean, me and the other chef.”

It was like, she's like, just make like super taste to shit. Like, you know what to do. So, like, all right, we got it. We fly to New York and go the next day to a used to film a Chelsea market. So, we go to Chelsea market. What they do is then they take you upstairs and they show you your pantry because you got to request a pantry. Okay. So, based on your pantry, you would know what menu you had because your different pantry has had different things.

So, like, what we came on was like, for battle bread, there would be lobsters because we had requests a lobster for battle bread. And I forget what we requested for the other things. So, we got upstairs. We looked at the pantry. We saw the lobster. We're like, all right, it's bread. It's bread.

We're on. So, I'm like, all right, they saw the pantry like, you know, I never done TV before.

I didn't know how anything worked. So, I'm like, all right, we're like, you know, my adrenaline starts like flowing. I'm like, we're going, we're going, we're going. You know, the next time we see staff, they walk us out under the iron staff, like, floor. So, now we're like standing in the floor on iron shaft. Like, we're there. It's like me and Dave and staff. And then we look over the fire. Michael Simon and his team, the chairman, standing up there. There's people all around us.

And we're like, we thought we're going to get to talk to staff again before it started. And, you know,

guys are going to huddle real quick. And then we're going to go. So, you're like, oh my god. All right,

“all right, all right. So, I'm like sitting there like, you know, like, jumping up and now, like, it's like”

about to be kick off. I'm just like, so, you know, as you know, and I know, have doing, doing cooking

shows now, how it works is they always do a full start first, right? Right, right. So, they do the,

they're like, and, you know, the chairman comes out and he's like, oh, Brad, it's, you know, they lift up the thing. And, you know, me and Dave, you know, start running and they're like, oh, stop, stop, stop, stop. We're like, wait, wait, wait, what? And I'm like, I'm shaky. Yeah, yeah. And then I've hold on, we got to like reset. And it's like, you know, it's only, you know, 30 seconds, right? It's not like any real amount of time. But then, you know, they kind of reset. And then, like, very natural Auntly,

they're like, all right, now we're going, we're like, wait, what? They're like, now we're going, they're just like, they're so anti-climatic. They're like, fuck, so we're like running around, we get it to it. We're like, go, and we all have our tasks. Like, I'm making this thing,

I have to cope this bread, I have to make this bread sauce, I have to do whatever, first thing I do

it. Go, grab the bread, big thing of brieos, take the knife, knife through the bread, knife tip right into my hand. Oh, that was me on our first challenge of top chef. And I was just like, no, no, I'm like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't got time for this. So I just like, did you just put a glove on in? I just put a glove on and I'm like, I'm like, like, put it on, I'm like, they're all looking at stuff. No one's looking at me. It doesn't matter.

So I just like slid a glove on. I'm like, this is, this is fine. So you know what I mean, I just keep going, I'm still cooking. And it's like, at one point, I go to take my glove off. And it's like, you know, you just got like the glove filled with blood. Yeah. She was like, oh, so then I'm like kind of like rinse it off low and like scrub my hand. And then I just like, I just literally like tied a towel around my hand. Yeah. And I'm like, we're just going to have to

make this work. And then it was like two minutes later, I like grab a pan. I forgot it's hot, like burn the shit. Oh, that's a man. I was like, oh my god, this is, this has gone terrible. Then I finally run and get the fucking sauce made. You know, I bring like the sauce over to staff. I remember I handed, I take the spoon. I'm like, chef, tastes it. You know, I give her it. She's just, she was, she was, oh, it's fucking terrible. I'm sick.

I think we'll, you know what, she was this fucking terrible fix it. So they go back, okay. Add a little more salt. I think I put a pinch of lemon in, you know, rip the blender again, bring it back over to you. She's like, oh, yeah, that's great. Thanks. No, this is like the fuck. So, oh, good. We finally get done. And like the weird one I was that, like talking about judging is they do a coin flip of who gets to plate first. So you have to finish in the time.

“And you have to plate one of each of your dishes because I think it was four dishes they used to”

do on our own chef. Okay. So you plate one of each four and then they flip a coin and somebody gets to present first. And then what they used to do is they give you 15 minutes for each course to plate the judges one. So you go back and like, so you can rip it up. Yeah, like they were to like you couldn't cook anything, but you could like get things hot again. Okay. And like plate. So you're like 15 minutes to like replay each course, which they make it sound like you can

do almost nothing. But the biggest rub of that one was was like one of the iron chefs knew what the ingredient was. The other thing is like, since they knew how it worked, like what somebody told me later, I met somebody who was on one of the teams. Like because they all had their teams, right? Those people that were on their iron chef teams. Yeah, every episode if they're competing

and he goes, he goes, bro, one of the biggest things we did. He was we never seasoned anything until

we got into the 15 minute window. He goes, because the first plate you do put up, he's like his beauty. He goes, so all the sauces, everything. He's like, you don't season them. He goes, tell you in the 15 minute window. So you're not like wasting time like going back and forth, tasting and tasting and re-signating. He's like, you just make the puree. And it looks right. And then you put it on the plate. My gosh. And you're like,

so we go up, we ended up, you know, we ended up with the competitors, don't know.

“Michael Simon, I think, got like, it was one of the highest scores ever scored an iron chef”

that bad. Wow. He's scared. He scored like a damn near perfect. Like we'd a great showing. But it was like, I forgot what amount of points you could score. It was like 95 or something random. Like that. He scored like a 94. Wow. And you had a sit through the judge,

ever had. This is the best dish I've ever had. You're just like, oh my gosh. So we lose by like a point.

“And it was just like, oh, Steph was so mad. I remember. And like, she was, like, she's like,”

fuck this, you know, we went out. We went out that night. We went, we actually went to the breastland sat there. Oh, aggressively drank whiskey for like six hours. And went to bed. And then I remember when it aired, Steph didn't want to watch it. You know what I mean? And like at the

time, you know, for me, I was like, I'm on TV. I'm probably never going to be on TV again.

So like, I'm like, this is, you don't get everybody together to watch it. Dude, we had a hundred people upstairs at Fado, because one of his friends, my buddy Valerie, she was the, like the events person there. So we have the whole top floor, you know what I mean? And like the south side and drones

“up there. And you had this massive party. And it was so fun. I remember we had hats and, you know,”

like, it was, it was just wild. Like, we were having a great time in life. And then it's like,

you know, we lost at the end. And it was like, oh, yeah. And I was like, that's that me up for it.

It's like, nobody cared. Nobody cared that I lost. We party way late with that night. We had the funnest night. It was an absolute riot. And it was, you know, a good realization for me. It was like, it wasn't about, you know, me winning and losing. It was like, all the people who supported me and got me there, like, just got to have a moment where it was like, hey, this is really cool. That's so awesome. They get to see you on TV, doing your thing. And you get to see their support

and love for you. Oh, yeah. So it's really funny. So every once in a while, like, it'll be like, I'll have like a new cook or something or somebody who'll be like, dude, I was watching, I saw an old iron chef the other night and like, were you on it? Because I'm like, like, I think I'm 25 in the episode. Oh, baby Joe. And you know what I mean? I got the bandana on and, you know, like, it's like, it's, it's, uh, so it's a funny, like, time capsule. But that was, that was

my first one. But after I did that one, I was like, oh, I don't, you know, like, who knows if I'll ever

get to do anything like that again. And here you are now. And like, let alone, you know, that you and I were going to go on this top chef adventure together. You've competed, you've judged, and it all started with Joe on iron chef as a suit. I did not know that. That is so awesome.

“I will say if they ever bring back iron chef though. That's what's going down. That, that's the”

smoke I want. I want that. I want all that smoke. Like, that's, that's the one where it's like, I am like, you know, it's like, as much as like, I try to say like, you know, oh, like, you know, losing whatever and dealing with it, it's like, I would say the biggest one of my crawl is still that one from being 25 with staff where it's like, I'm like, I still feel like we got on finished iron chef business where it's like, I would go back on iron chef tonight, if they call.

I'd be like, form that team like Voltron, let's go. I would be like, you know, we're going, I don't care what we got to do. I don't care. We got to shut the restaurants down. I don't care. We got to drive to New York. I'd be like, getting the truck boys. We're going. That's it for this episode of the chef's cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube or you can find full length videos of

every episode and be sure to rate and review. For Joe Flam, I'm Adrian Cheatham and this has been the chef's cut, life beyond the past.