Episode #120 Featuring Angelo Keely! The Amino Acids CLINIC you have been waiting for!! The most detailed and intricate break down of essential amino acids to date!

Today's episode is sponsored by Keyon. Keyon helps health and fitness enthusiasts live long, fun, active lives by providing supplements and foods that maximize performance and longevity. By combining the cleanest natural ingredients into complementing formulas, Keyon helps you unlock your body's natural energy.

Keyon selects high quality non-GMO ingredients, never uses fillers nor junk additives.

They then verify the identity, potency, and purity of each ingredient and use natural flavors and sweeteners. All Keyon supplements are made in a CGMP facility that is NSF certified, meticulous attention to detail as applied to every step of the process from measurements to bottling, packaging, and quality assurance.

I use Keyon not only for the quality, but the trust and dedication to be customer first. Visit getheon.com/dillongetheonk-i-o-n.com/dillon and save 20% off today. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Dillon Jamelli podcast.

So me and my guests got going there and we decided we'd better record because the content is too good to not have on the air. But I am, man, I'm stoked to talk to my guide today because there are so many things that

“I think we align on, but we already discussed about it.”

I think I'm in for a surprise on other things that we haven't gotten into yet. So you probably recognize his face, but if not just a little bit of background on him, he is the co-founder and CEO of Keyon, which happens to be one of my favorite companies. And they are a supplement company focused on helping people look good, feel young, be strong. He's got quite a backstory as well that we're going to get into a lot of overcoming adversities,

a lot of things that he's been through, and it'll kind of lead into white he does what he does. But I am thrilled, honored, pleasure to introduce you to my guest, Angelo Kiwi. Dylan, thanks for having me, man. It's honored to be here. It's great what I was just, what I was just saying before we got on was, I love

how blessed you feel, like the way you're walking through life and feeling, like, you know, through grace and just being blessed, man, it's like it's a good vibe to be around. So thanks. I'm glad to spend the next hour with you. I love it, man.

And likewise, since the moment I first talked to you, the vibe has been on point. And that's the kind of people I like to associate myself with.

“And also, the things that we're going to discuss today, I think, are so pertinent.”

That I think a lot of people, A, misunderstand or B are lacking when it comes to their overall health and wellness and understanding, because let's face it. You and I both know we've been around the supplement world is very, I hate the word polarizing, but it in a sense, it's tricky, it's polarizing, it's marketing. So we're going to get in all that.

But I want to talk a little bit about you first, because the story leads into the company and why you are here and what you do.

I don't always start with back stories or things of that nature, but yours is tremendous.

So let's kind of go back a little bit, what brought you to where you are today in Phyllison. Man, well, there's a lot. I think there's a lot of different reasons why I am where I am today and how it all comes together. You know, one way I like thinking about it is almost like a spiral, like an upward spiral

that I'm on. So I kind of find myself back in this loop where I started in some way.

“And if I go back really early, I guess that's why I like to think about myself.”

I'm constantly going up, hopefully constantly like ascending. And now I go back to my earliest childhood and my parents were very involved in natural health and fitness. My dad actually had been an importer of botanicals into the U.S. and into Mexico like in 70s.

Wow. And then had a natural health food store, natural health food restaurant. And yeah, my parents were just, they were very hippy, crunchy kind of health-focused people in the 80s, early 80s.

And yeah, so I was born into that family, you know, born at home, never had a haircut

tie was eight. Didn't go to like a traditional doctor, you know, they didn't like, didn't get vaccinated as a little baby. You know, I ultimately did as an adult, but yeah, it's like, yeah, I just raising this like very, very natural health kind of environment.

And my parents were, were they chosen me pescatarians, okay. And with that, it meant they had kind of limited protein sources. And we actually talked a lot about protein. We talked a lot about like eating whole eating fruits and vegetables, but we talked a lot about protein and even like protein combining like why we would eat quinoa and lentils together

It's like a little kid.

It was like a four year old, you know, I would like know I had to eat those things together.

If we weren't eating fish that day, or we weren't eating a higher quality plant protein like a tofu, you know, which make really soy and spiraling. There are a few others that actually like have their as high, they're almost as high quality as like an animal protein. And, or dairy, you know, I eat dairy as a kid.

And so I got exposed to ideas like protein combining and we actually took amino acids. So I took supplements on amino acids as a kid and partly daily nutrition and partly kind of like sport stuff that my mom was into. And yeah, so I just got, you know, I got exposed to stuff very early. And then as I got older, you know, I kind of made move my way up like farther away on the

other side of the spiral. I became an adolescent and I wanted to experiment and do my own things and kind of push

away from like the beliefs of my parents and I'm like eating fast food and imparting

and doing drugs and getting into trouble.

“And I think to my family was very, was an entrepreneurial family and a pretty eccentric”

family and it was very much like kind of figure out your own way and not just like fall of the path that someone gave you. And that's awesome. And it's also like not super stabilizing for an adolescent. And I think I just went out and tried to do everything my own and figure everything out.

And I got into just a lot of trouble. I got in trouble with the law. I got in trouble with drugs. And when I was 16, I had a really bad LSD trip and a base just kind of like lost my mind. And I was not in a great neighborhood and I accidentally provoke some people who were much

more hardcore than me and they ended up nearly beating me to death and they stabbed me twice in the back and in the knee. So, I suffered my patella tendon and I had to have a emergency abdominal surgery, it was hospitalized for a long time. You know, when I eventually woke up in the hospital, I mean, I was just like totally black

and blue and yeah, you know, it had staples over my body. And that, you know, I was 16 and a half when that happened.

It was the, yeah, it was the first day of summer after my sophomore high school.

And so it was just like man, that's a really big dose of a reality adulthood, how your actions, you know, lead you to what you get more of in life. But also at the same time, my powerlessness and it was, yeah, I was just a really big dose. And obviously, you know, I had PTSD and and that kicked off a process for me of really trying

to take my life more seriously and be, oh, me up to like spirituality and God in the way I hadn't been to.

“I think been as open, it opened me up to self care and exercise, not just like playing sports,”

but like trying to eat things that would really make me healthier and happier and better. And it wasn't immediate. But over those next few years, it really became this like really cool personal development project for me. They had the head elements of like, you know, surrender and God focus and elements of vanity

and just trying to, you know, like being controlled my life and be much better. But it was, it was a very big shift from just like being out of control and, you know, being kind of crazy. And, you know, I think that, you know, I've gone through those cycles multiple times in my life and I think less, you know, that was like the most traumatic and the most dark it's been.

Mm-hmm. But I had another really cool part of my journey that took me, you know, I ended up going to college. I did really well there and it become valedictorian, my college, I ended up moving overseas for a few years.

I lived in France. I worked and lived in France and India and it had back in the US, you know, during that period found the woman that I love, I got married, I worked in another company for a few years, built and grew this behavioral healthcare company. And at some point, oh, it's like around, it's almost 10 years ago now.

I think I was at that kind of part, you know, that stage in the spiral or this loop, you know, where it was like kind of coming home and wanting to do more of my own thing, something I was, I was more passionate about and really into it. Not, I was into the behavioral healthcare thing too. It was helping young adults and teenagers who were, you know, went through things like

I went through. But, you know, it's weird when I think about it now, it's like, I kind of just ended up starting the supplement company that, like, my mom and my dad would have been proud of for something.

“Not because that's what I was trying to do, but it was like real supplements that have”

real science that are the highest quality that are premium, that are, you know, not cutting corners and like hiring really great people and like just trying to build this like awesome really great company and not try to play fancy marketing sales games, just like, make awesome products, have great customer service, take care of people and make products I want to take and I want, like, my family to take.

And yeah, and so I don't know exactly how I got there on the spiral, I'm describing but like, I think it's all those things that came together, you know, from the earliest routes to me and my own journey of trying to be more real, more sincere and like live the life. I really want to live and not live some life on accident.

laugh, sometimes you can cry, sometimes you can wonder why, but it ultimately ends where

it's supposed to and sometimes the turns that it takes, you may wonder why and you may think that you could, would want to go back and change it, but in reality, if you did, then it wouldn't be how it is right now. I've done that a lot and I'm wondering if you have this, there's a lot of mistakes through there, but the mistakes shape where you become and then they allow you to be what you are

and without them, I don't know, you know, you'd be here, I know I wouldn't and I have some things that are on paper, some horrible, and I don't advise anybody to do them, however,

“I think if you use those and realize they're actually gifts and tools and keep that kind”

of outlook, you will ultimately become the most successful you were ever supposed to be.

I mean, what do you think about that?

I don't regret anything. I think that there's, there's things I've done in my life where, you know, maybe I hurt someone like I said something, I don't want to say, I didn't, like, afterwards and I'm like, I'm really sorry, like, man, I don't, I, that's not who I want. I want to be, but I don't regret it, you know, it's, I don't, it's whatever came out.

And I'm trying to think of like the most difficult things, right? Like, me just messing up or getting in trouble or not doing something right or looking foolish, like, for, for certain, all of those things taught me way more than my successes, like my failure is taught me way more, but even like when I, I think when I, maybe hurt someone, you know, it's like, it's like, I have kids, you know, I'm 11-year-old and a 13-year-old,

I'm, as I'll say, someone's like stupid, you know, like, man, that's not like the supportive, all loving dad I want to be, and it's like, you know, that's probably good for them, though, to have an experience of me messing up and then apologizing and, you know, so it's like, it's all, man, it's all just graced for the mill and it's all part of, like, yeah, just growing and learning and becoming more of who I am and, yeah, so I don't regret anything,

and I truly, my failures have taught me way more than my successes have. You can't, you can't know and understand success without failures and you can't ever overcome adversity when it presents itself if you don't have to deal with it throughout your life. And that should provide comfort to people in general that you're trained and you're ready.

“And I think back on those things as tools and training and one of the things you said that”

I find quite funny now, because it, it did hold you back then, as you said, hippies about your parents, because the people were looked at going off the wall, going national, going this like, they were hippies. And it's funny because today, that's like standard protocol in what we do. You know what I mean? That's functional medicine. That's alternative medicine. And the way that they were looked at back then and how far ahead of the time they actually were,

is rather astounding. I mean, if you think about it that way, nobody ever really talks about it. I don't either till you just said that and I was like, you know what, wait a minute. hippies were actually functional medicine doctors in, in short. Don't you think? I mean, what I would say is certainly there are things that that I was raised in in my family that at that time we're considered very weird and didn't make sense. And now a lot more people

think they make sense. And I think, you know, I don't know about what the science said then versus what the science says now, but like the science now says like it's pretty, it's pretty legit. It's pretty real. And I think, I mean, I think it's just like an element of life in general, but it's actually really true to science. Interesting about it around science. Oftentimes, the biggest breakthroughs in science and in life do not come from iterating on whatever we

believed or fought before. It's from a totally different insight. It's from something that contradicts what we believe now that somehow is also true. You know, it's not that maybe like the thing before wasn't true, but it's like, yeah, but this is actually also true. When you go from like chemistry to physics, you know, like there's there's a next level truth about what's going on or what's happening

“that you have to think alternatively to whatever the current mindset is around it. And yeah,”

so there's something really to the people, the outcasts, the alternatives, the people that don't fit right in. And you know, it probably some of the things and as my parents believed in or I was raised with like, I, I don't necessarily believe in now. I'm going to grow out, you know, but and there's some things I'm like, I just feel so blessed that like they they taught me it so early.

There's always craziness. I think to sift through in anything, but then there's always

nuggets or ideas or things that I found that I think back to myself like, man, it's, it's actually helped me to open up my eyes and ears more to people that are talking and not just write them off. You know, when I say prayers for things, I don't ask for $1 million. I don't ask to be this famous wherever I ask for it. Like, eyes to see an ears to hear an actual

become a person that makes a significant difference. And I think that you have had some experience

“that have helped you do that. And I think actually, I know that what you do with, with discussing”

amino's and talking about them in a different way than I've seen people do is very vital and

importance. And look, I, I don't know your full background of supplements we never got into that,

but I've been around it for 15 to 20 years. And I know how, how do I say this politely? It's a very dirty industry because there's a lot of people that are sabotaging a lot of people to take shortcuts. A lot of people that do a lot of negative things. But then there's people like you that do it the right way that really look out for people. But you take the brunt of being grouped into a category because of bad actors. It happens with what I do. That influencers

that take advantage of people who don't know what they're talking about. How do you overcome that kind of stigma to be able to kind of be a shining light in the industry? I think I just don't worry about it. And you know, I think there's something the, I'm trying to remember the exact quote actually. So Dr. Arne Farando, who's a leader in amino acid research, like one of the most published guys, a mentor to me, one of our scientific advisors,

he has this, I can't, I'm feeling like I'm going to mess it up. But it's, you know, it's something

like the cream always rises at the top and you like can't keep like, someone really can't

bury your shit beeping up for something. You know, it's like whatever it is, like if your shit sticks, it's good to keep, it's good to come up. You know, I'm a client in the cream's going to rise the top. So it's kind of like, you know, just be myself, just be myself, try to be my most true self. And if I value certain things, like focus on doing those things that I really value. And I mean, I guess as that applies to like supplements, you know, it's like, I want to, I want to make

products that like really make sense to take every day and that aren't dangerous to take every day. And that are worth the money for myself and for other people. And I don't want to cut corners and if if someone buys something from me, I mean, I've just think about like, I don't know, I wouldn't cut someone's lawn and they're like, I don't like the way you cut my lawn, you know, I don't want to argue with the person about it. Like, you know, I'm really sorry,

here's your money back, you know. And like the experience that that person would have with me, they would be like, oh, wow, dude, that's awesome. Like, okay, well, you know, and actually like, I'll give you something, they probably give me some of the money back, or we work it out, or they'd like, I'm going to recommend you for someone else, even though I didn't like this, or you know what, maybe that person is just, they're so disappointed me and they really

don't like it and they never want to talk to me again, that's okay, too. I don't, I don't need that

that person's money, you know. And so it's, it's like, don't have a good return policy and have good CS and like just, just be genuine and good. And if you do that, you really will be rewarded by people recognizing it over time. Like, in immediate reward system, but neither

“is like nothing in life is. There's no, I don't believe in like, get rich, quick schemes. I don't”

believe in get fit, quick schemes. You know, it's like, you know, weekly training, multiple times a week, progressive overload, overall, a long time, nutrition, eating healthy things every day, consistently. It's not like you're just going to, you know, fast your way into health by not eating thing for five days. You know, or you can, you'll produce some weight, but you won't only lose fat, you'll lose some muscle too. And like, I guess if that was part of like a thoughtful, you know,

annual practice, like spiritual or something, you know, I'm not trying to just fasting. I'm just saying anything that we try to do it really fast, it's not going to work. And that's what happens with supplement companies, is I think someone is wants to make money, wants to take care of themselves, wants to try to, you know, like, everyone's out there trying to figure it out. And it seems like it'll be easier if they use some fancy, newly studied ingredient, or they make some big,

more marketing claim. And then they're trying to hire someone else to work with them and help them. And everyone's just trying to like, get by and they're they're cutting corners and they're

“I think I think everyone's trying their hardest, but I think some people maybe aren't as”

committed to like really doing it right. And I just don't worry about it. Like there's other, I have direct competitors that say things that are not true. And they raise a bunch of money and they can go hire people to, you know, promote them and to do it. And it's like, that's okay. Like that's I don't have to worry about them. I don't have to like beat them or be better than them. I can just do my thing and do it well. And people who like what we do will support us and work

with us and like our life will be good. So I just don't just don't worry about them. The part of the problem is most things in life are a marathon not a sprint, right? And cutting corners and doing the things that I see done, or oh, wow, I see this company making this much money. So I'm going to do it without the realization or understanding or care of what you're doing.

brand and see what you're all about. Because a lot of times what I see as companies they have their owner come on and it's a bit of a bunch of science. You don't really know who they are, why they do what they do, what their true intent is. And I want people to see because I know from talking to you that yours is on my kind of level of people that I want to show off to people and say, hey, you know, because I don't get behind a bunch of brands for a reason.

Because there's a lot of good products with a lot of shithead owners or good owners with bad products. And it's it's it's few and far between. So it's important to see why somebody does something and how and what the true motivation is. And you can gather a lot by here and answer to that. So I appreciate you getting into that a little bit because it's a tough business like like all business. But there's a lot of things that go on people aren't aware of and it's hard.

It's hard to make not only a good quality product, but one that it doesn't harmful. I hear. I'll give you an example. Me, I told my wife one day I said, let's go through the cupboard and let's pull out all of the different things that we have. And I'm pretty careful about what what I take over the years. Let's see what has red blue dyes. What has super low is what has this? And yeah, it might be on the end of the ingredient label. But how much is this

adding up and accumulating? And you look and it's like every single thing has something in it.

“And then that's what I want to get into about your products being different. But let's”

let's go behind the science a little bit here first. What what can you just break down in

simplicity? What an amino acid is and why we actually need it. Yeah. So at first full thanks again for having me on Dylan and I appreciate everything you said. And again, I have a lot of like respect for you. And yeah, I'm just excited to be here. So amino acids are I'm going to go I'm going to tackle this from a couple different directions. Then I think that'll help kind of create the the most helpful understanding. amino acids technically are these little building blocks

that make up proteins and all of biology. It's what makes up proteins and plants in our bodies. It's literally what makes up proteins. And the reason why they're important is because they play a really big role in actually making new proteins in our body. And so now I'm taking another step back and coming out from another angle and just talk about macronutrients. So most people have heard of carbohydrates, fat, and protein. There's these three major macronutrients as separate from micro

nutrients like vitamins and minerals, etc. So for macronutrients, protein is very different than carbohydrates and fat. You know, a primary role of carbohydrates and fat is energy. If you think about your body like a house, you want to run the dishwasher, you want to run your TV, the light,

“etc., you need energy. So you need to get it from the grid or from solar panels or generator.”

Think about that as like carbohydrates. Carbohydrates. Carbohydrates is a thing you put in your body. It's like kind of primary energy source. And then you also could get natural gas. Maybe to run your you could have a gas stove or something. Like that's like fat. It's another type of energy source. Now fat does other things your body too builds up cells, etc. But really

those are like they they primarily get used for energy. With protein less than 10 percent of it

gets used for energy. You're not you're not converting it into a fuel to run to beat your heart, to move your body, to breathe the way that carbohydrates are used. The reason why you eat protein is because you need to rebuild your body. And that's that's the main idea behind that's kind of a connection between eat more protein, get more muscle. It's because the protein actually becomes the muscle tissue, literally becomes the muscle tissue. And just like a house, physical materials,

whether that's your toaster or your paint in your bathroom or your hardwood floors, they don't last forever. They wear out over time. And as you can imagine a paper towel wears out really quickly. You know the paper towels in your house like they were out really quickly versus your hardwood floors last a much longer time. And so you don't have to replace your hardwood floors as frequently

“you have to replace paper towels much more frequently. Well the same thing's true with the proteins”

in your body. About 30 percent of your liver proteins every single day have to be remade.

30 percent your muscle it's about one to two percent. That's not to build new muscle. That's just to replace the existing muscle tissue that you have. And the reason for that is the proteins in your body just the simplest way to think about is they wear out. They become degraded and you need new ones. And so what happens in your body is you know try to keep it something really practical like skin. Your skin is made up of proteins. It's right now if you look at your arm you can't tell

that there's millions of proteins that make it up. And right now literally right now one of them has become degraded and it's breaking apart inside your body. Wild man. And when it breaks apart

reused and some of them cannot. And maybe an easy way to think about this is if you're going to

“remodel your bathroom you might say all this old you know cloth that tub is really cool. I'm going”

to keep that. And so that's like an amino acid you might keep. It's still useful. So it's classic. It's going to keep working. And then there might be some that's like the flooring. Like there's old carpet that's like ugly and gross that someone put in the bathroom. And you're going to rip that out. Well in the same way you actually pee out some of these amino acids and you keep some of them. So you get to you get to reuse amino acids to some extent but some you're going to lose. And so now

immediately what you can see is right now if this protein breaks apart my body and I end up peeing out some of the amino acids. I have less amino acids that I had before. And I need more amino acids thus to help rebuild that skin tissue. That's happening everywhere. That's your heart. That's your kidneys. That's your liver. That's your all of your muscle tissue. That's your hair. That's your skin. That's even things like hormones and enzymes are made up of proteins. All of these are degrading

to some degree and have to be rebuilt. That is why we eat protein. When you eat a chicken breast, when you eat tofu, when you eat Greek yogurt, when you eat quinoa, you digest them. The proteins inside of those food sources get broken apart in your digestive system. The amino acids that make them up get released. They go into your blood and two things happen. Depending on what the quality of that protein is and which amino acids brand it and how much

because every single one of these is different. To some degree, those amino acids will just get used to help rebuild old proteins. If you eat certain combinations of protein, so you eat certain types of protein, certain types of amino acids, you will actually tell your body to rebuild at a higher degree to where you can get more protein turnover, more new protein synthesis. So these amino acids do two things. One thing is they just help rebuild, but certain ones, which we can get into,

essential amino acids, eaten in the right context, actually stimulate new protein synthesis in the

body and thus can help build more muscle, help replace more old skin tissue. Basically, it's not so much to accelerate, but accentuate increased the amount of total protein synthesis that happens in the body. So amino acids are really important. And that's where I was going next.

“So it can be complicated for some, but I think if we do what you just did and break it down”

kind of easier, that it's pretty, pretty easy to understand. So let's start with this. Two questions. One, we have the essential and non-essential that we can get into. I'd like you to explain the difference there. And then two, after that, let's just explain the difference between BCA and EAA, because I swear to you, overall of the years, the number one question I get when it comes to these and what's the difference and then we'll get into why one is better than

the other, et cetera. But those two questions, if you would, please, is essential versus non-essential, BCA versus EAA. Great. Yeah. So there's two really important points about essential versus non-essential.

The first one is more people are familiar with it, and that is this idea of what essential means

in nutrition. Essential, the definition of essential in nutrition is that your body cannot make it. So it is essential that you eat it. So there's nine essential amino acids, and we're not getting into the nuance of conditionally essential under certain types of like illness or age, et cetera.

“But basically there's nine essential. You must eat them. Your body cannot make them. And then”

there's eleven non-essential. So your body can actually utilize the nine essential amino acids to produce the eleven non-essential. Okay. So that's the kind of key idea. So in that, that's where debates about, quote, complete protein or incomplete protein come from. That's where debates about is plant protein as good as animal protein come from. That's where I hinted at earlier this idea of protein combining why I might want to combine lentils and quinoa together. Yes. And it's because

plant proteins typically are not complete. Meaning they don't have all nine of the essential

amino acids in sufficient amounts. That's not always true. Like soy is a complete protein and tofu, and like a soy protein powder are excellent protein sources. No matter how much hate they get about fidoest rodinds and all that, which is a whole other argument, they're really the only thing that kind of comes close to animal proteins. And on the other hand, basically all animal proteins

essential amino acids. And that's, and when we talk about, well, why do you need sufficient amounts?

Well, the whole idea is like if it's an essential nutrient that is going to be required for rebuilding my proteins, I'm going to have to eat enough of it if I rebuild all the proteins in my body. So that's, that's kind of like the core idea. But there's a much more interesting idea that most people are not familiar with, and this is the one I think is like the biggest takeaway someone may get from this conversation to if they haven't really explored the subject,

“and it's great for dinner parties. If you want to sound really smart, and it's highly studied.”

I mean, like, hundred papers on this, tons of human outcomes studies that you're proving this and shown this. Essential amino acids are not only important because your body can't make them,

they're also, they play basically a key chemical messenger role. The more essential amino acids

that hit the blood at once, and they measure this by looking at the amount of essential amino acids in blood plasma, the more stimulus of new protein synthesis happens. So you think about it this way. If I consume some steak on its own, and I digest it, and it has a lot more essential amino acids in it than a little small serving of king water. Those essential amino acids get into my blood, and my body reads that there's these essential amino acids and understands and thinks it's safe

to break down old proteins and rebuild new ones because I've got this core nutrient that I need to do that. So the more essential amino acids that are in your blood at once directly correlates to

“stimulating new proteins synthesis. And here's the thing for anyone who's kind of more familiar”

with like gym science and building muscle, it is possible to stimulate new proteins synthesis without training, without exercise. The typical idea is I need to go do resistance training, and the resistance training does all kinds of awesome things for your body. But one of the main things is it's going to like break down these old proteins and it's going to kickstart this process of needing to like rebuild new proteins, and then what I need to do is I need to eat, I need to take

my way of protein shake, or I need to eat a good meal, or I need to take these amino acids, and then it's going to help me rebuild my muscle tissue. That is true. That is correct on its own, though, certain amounts of amino acids have a significant stimulus of new proteins synthesis.

And it's quick, you know, jumping ahead, but like essential amino acids specifically and

loosening enriched ones have been shown outside of exercise to help people maintain all muscle when they have lost all physical activity, and they've been shown to help increase build pounds of muscle on people over the course of a few months with no increase in other types of exercise and not taking them around exercise. So, literally, the essential amino acids on their own as a nutritional supplement can actually maintain your muscle if you stop exercising, can help you build

muscle outside of exercise periods. So, it's, again, there's this primary idea of like,

“it's the thing you can only get from, you know, you must get it from your food, which is important,”

but really, it's, it's this like key chemical messenger that can help you build a maintained muscle. I think really remarkably, in conditions where you're in any kind of stress-based state, and that stress-based state could be aging, because basically as you get older after 40, your ability to build a maintained muscle significantly drops in and around any type of injury, illness, if you're any kind of caloric restriction, then going into all these more

later, all these create a certain type of stress, and it becomes really helpful and important as as a potential supplement. So, that's, you know, what are EAA's versus, you know, non-essential amino acids, but your other question was BCA's, do you want me to jump to that one, or do you want you have a follow-up first? Because I see your eyes, well, all my, my, on my thought process is like, okay, then, because the biggest problem right now that I think you'll agree with me on is the

use of GOP once the lack of understanding of diet and nutrition, and what we need to do to prevent muscle wastage and loss, especially coming off of these things, because it is a prevalent problem. And I think that the discussion instead of always focusing on the weight loss, and this, and that should be, how do we maintain muscle? How do we make sure that we're taking care of our bodies, and we're understanding that we're sacrificing the muscle, not just the weight

loss, and it's actually degrading our bodies in this becoming a huge massive problem, because you cannot take these forever, I don't care what any doctor tells you, they're not meant to be taken forever, and shutting your mind off from the realization that your hungry is not smart and wise. You're trying to play God, and that's not going to work. So, my question would be then, how would the implementation of EAA's into this protocol help to prevent people from the struggles

need to eat while taking these, would you consider this like a vital need for people that are on them? I would consider it a very high priority, and the science of weight loss is consistent across both GOP-1 assisted caloric restriction and just using my fitness pal, and later tracking everything

“you eat, needing less food. Either way, when you consume less calories, then you need to maintain”

your current body composition, your current weight. What's going to happen is your body's going to two things. One is it's going to start eating your extra fat stores, like that's, and it's, I think people don't realize it's actually a pretty cool marvelous part of our creation, in that if we were out on the savanna or in the woods and we're hunting and we're trying to find food, and you kill this big animal, and it's, and you overeat, you eat more food than you could possibly eat at that time.

You can actually store some of it. You can store some of it as energy as fat in your body. That's we were gifted with a stability, a store extra energy as fat, so that at times when we can't eat and we can't find food, we can live off that fat. It's actually a really cool mechanism for us. Unfortunately, when you're surrounded with too much delicious food all the time and it's highly addictive, then you keep eating too much all the time, it's more than you need, and now you're just

walking around storing this fat you don't need. So, in the same way that it worked in ancient times, if you suddenly start eating less than you need, you're going to start burning that fat. You're going to start actually living off the fat in your body, then only the calories you're consuming that day. But the other thing that happens is that your body now gets confused and considers protein and amino acids in a very different way. It suddenly starts looking at

any protein I eat and thinks, "Ooh, could I actually convert more of that into energy?" And you can, you can actually convert protein into carbohydrate specifically via gluconeogenesis. So you start wanting to use more of it for that. Similarly, your body is in this stress-induced state. It's kind of freaking out. And it's not focused on trying to maintain its muscle. It's simply that it becomes a much lower priority. And so recent studies in the last few years

have proven that basically a 30% reduction in total calories. So, if 2000 calories a day

outside, you know, we won't include exercise now. But 2000 calories a day is what's going to what's going to make you stay your current weight. And you cut that by 600 calories a day. Which is not a crazy cut. Like that's, you know, it's basically in a week, you probably you lose a little over a pound. You know, like over a lot of you sustain that. So it's not like a crazy aggressive thing. That amount of calorie restriction 30% required a 300% increase. Three times as much

“of essential amino acids per serving, I believe. For that group to maintain a net protein balance.”

I'll unpack that scientifically. If you don't want to lose any muscle, if you want to cut 600 calories out of a 2000 calorie day diet and you don't want to lose any muscle, you need to eat a lot more protein, like way more protein. And what would be even easier would be to just supplement

with something like essential amino acids. So we can get into why that is, but there are many,

many, many times more impactful than just eating whole food protein. Like many times more impactful. And it's because there's so much more bio-available. They hit the blood so much more quickly. You can enhance them with loose scenes that they overcome the metabolic resistance. So yes, whether you are on a GOP one and you're achieving this core restriction because you turned off the food noise, you reduce the appetite, or you're doing it through just discipline

and hard work and tracking all your food in either way. Either way, if you don't focus on eating more protein and, I mean, honestly, I think it's like significantly more protein. So I would say, you don't focus any more protein and probably just more realistically taking a supplement,

like a elucine enriched essential amino acid supplement, you will lose a lot more muscle than you

want to lose. In a short-term diet, you could lose basically 40% of your weight loss could be muscle. In a longer-term diet, it's probably about 25%. And that's true for GOP ones or for, you know,

“tracking everything you eat. I think the big difference is, if you have to track everything you eat”

and you're working with the coach, you're probably thinking about trying to eat lots of fiber. Like, well, if I eat a lot of vegetables and fruits, it like fills me up, you know? And I'm trying to eat my protein, whereas maybe if you're just on a medication and you're not getting that type of supportive coaching, you're just eating less of the same not good food. Like, if you just start eating 1,400 calories a day, but it's still just like empty carbs,

meaning crackers, you know, and bread type things that don't have micro nutrients, that don't have

setting yourself up for a long-term sustainable good life. You know, I think, it's like, it really comes back to eating like fruits and vegetables and protein. It's fiber and protein. It's like, you know, I feel like it's not that novel. No, that's perfect. I really want it. I've got so many different damn questions for you. So I want to head them all, sorry, man, but when you start going and this is, I feel like this area is not that difficult to understand, but it gets convoluted

“like really easily by by people and so your breakdowns are so pristine. That's why I want to”

slam you for info while I've got you. So hit the BCAA's real quick because I got a ton of other stuff free. Yeah. So BCAA's are branch-chain amino acids. They're losing isolucine and valine.

They are three of the nine essential amino acids. So when you talk about branch-chain amino acids,

they are essential amino acids. They're just not all of them. They're only three of the nine. And the way that the science has progressed around this is that lucine is like the star. Lucine is in terms of stimulating protein synthesis, whether it's whole body protein synthesis, meaning like liver proteins in skin and all this or muscle. Lucine is the star quarterback. And isolucine and valine are also very important. They're like the two next most important amino

acids. So when the scientific community started studying this more in terms of human nutrition 40 years ago, they saw that. They saw, wow, these BCAA's are really important.

“And they started to think, hey, what if we just isolated those three and gave them to athletes?”

What would happen? Could they on their own be anabolic? If you gave someone these branch-chain amino acids, could it help stimulate proteins synthesis without having to give them a whole

food protein or give them all the essential amino acids? And the early studies that were more

mechanistic, meaning you didn't actually see if the person built muscle over time. You just saw like how the amino acids moved through the blood and how they entered into muscle tissue and how many left the muscle tissue, etc. They thought that maybe you could just give people BCAA's and you would be able to create ananabolic situation, be able to help people build more muscle. Or improve recovery and a really distinct way relative to all this. And basically, as it got

studied more and more over the last 20 years, what has become very clear is that's not the way it works.

“You have to have the other six essential amino acids. You can't only take the three branch-chain”

amino acids. And there's a great paper, the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2017 published basically a very clear synopsis of metanalysis of all the prior studies that show the BCAA's on their own or not anabolic. And they could even potentially be catabolic because they basically what they do is it's be like if you went out on a football field with only your three star players, right? Maybe they look like really fast and great at first and they're going to get crushed.

And so basically you get this huge spike in what looks like you're generating protein synthesis and then it just crashes immediately. And so it communicates to your body in an unhelpful way. Oh, we've got all this loosey-nice loosey and valy, let's go and let's break down proteins and make new ones and then you don't have any of the other building blocks that you need to complete the process. So, in short, BCAA's on their own are not effective and they're not worth taking. They're not worth

money, but there's a very big marketing business machine behind them. And so they've continued to be

sold. If you're going to supplement with amino acids, you want to take a complete essential amino acid

formula. And you really want certain proportions, too, which we can get into later. But the proportions really matter. And that's another thing out there right now where it's like there's all kinds of brands, selling all kinds of stuff with proprietary formulas and just, uh, you know, it's just making money, but not actually like making a product that that that does what they say it does. So, yeah, so that's that's BCAA's versus EA's. I'm gonna leave that one along. But I will say

this, um, I am totally with you and that so many years of BCAA pushing and sales and that just to hear you say that and I know it, but I wanted to hear it from somebody that is an expert on it to convey the messaging as to why and it sucks. It does. And I think some people knew and some people didn't know, but it went on for so long, but thank you for the breakdown. Now, here's the next question. Let's talk about postwork out use and just use in general.

Postwork out first. What would be the difference or the preferred method after a work at would it be in EA's supplement or a protein shake that most people kind of become reliant upon? Or are there circumstances where one would be better than the other? Either one is good. If you, if you like a protein shake after you work out, that's great. And

them together. You can combine them together. So now, maybe this is a good opportunity to explain a little bit more science. Is it okay or getting, getting too heavy? Now do it. Okay.

So going back to this, this core idea of the amount of essential amino acids in your blood at once

is what determines how much protein synthesis gets stimulated. Hang with me here. But if you eat,

“and these are like actual real studies that I'm quoting, 30 grams of beef protein. That's why”

the numbers are so specific. 30 grams of beef protein, which is like about what you're going to get like in a six-ounce steak or 70 grams of beef protein. Sorry, the 30 grams of beef protein on its own. Like all I'm eating is this steak with beef protein or 70 grams of beef protein, more than twice that amount of like 12 ounce steak approximately. But I eat that with broccoli, potatoes, part of a mixed meal. The smaller serving of steak will stimulate more protein synthesis

than the larger serving of steak on its own. So why is that? That is because your body

more easily digest the steak on its own, the 30 grams. And the essential amino acids get freed up

from the protein. They go into the blood and they have a higher peak concentration. And your body reads that and it stimulates more protein synthesis. Whereas when you eat the large amount of steak, but it's mix of all the foods, it doesn't hit that peak concentration as quickly or as significantly. Now, I'm isolating this really specifically outside the context of training, right? Because training on its own is going to stimulate protein synthesis and do all these other

good things. But truly, if you're talking just pure nutrition, the more isolated beef on its own is more anabolic than twice the amount of beef eaten with other foods. Now, if I compare that to way protein, which is the gold standard of base, it has more studies than anything else in terms of being an anabolic protein supplement source. Way protein, gram for gram has about three times the impact as whole food beef. So, like a 20 gram, 20 gram scoop of way protein is literally

going to have like three times the rise in the plasma, the blood plasma, EAA levels as a 20 gram piece of steak. But do not 20 gram piece of steak. A steak with 20 grams of protein in it. Yeah. So, people are thinking, oh, proteins all equal. You're not like after I work out, should I be eating, you know, taking weight protein or eating a whole food meal or whatever. And what I would say is we're getting really into nuance here and like all of its good man, whole food protein, I love eggs

and steak and vegetable holes in the eye level and I also like way protein. I also like amino acids. They're all, they're all good. Like there's not, I don't think there's a wrong answer in these. And the way protein is a lot more anabolic than the steak. It just simply is. You can't get away

“from the science of it. Now, when you compare that to free form essential amino acids, a free form”

essential amino acid supplement in a young healthy adult. It's going to be even more

easy when we talk about older adults. But in a young healthy adults, 25 year old, the free form essential amino acids, gram for gram are going to be three times the impact as weight protein. Why is that? Well, the reason why the weight protein was more impactful than the steak is because again, it was a more isolated protein source. More of the other solids that were involved with the protein, like when you actually just eat cheese or milk, right, have been stripped away and you're

just getting the raw protein. But even in a really high quality protein, like steak or weight protein, about 45% of it is essential amino acids. And 55% is non-essential. When you take a free form essential amino acid supplement, 100% of the amino acids are the essentials. So you're already getting twice the amount more than twice the amount of the signal, the thing that tells your body, hey, go break down the old proteins and let's build new ones. On top of that, it's immediately

digested. There's basically no digestion. There's no breaking apart the proteins to get the amino acids

“are already immediately available. So they go to the blood so quickly. And that's why, even in a”

young adult, they're going to be like three times the level of the plasma EAA levels is what you get from weight protein. Now, when you compare that to an older adult, you get to someone who is and allow these studies or like people in their 60s. But I think it's comparable to think that it's not to this degree, but in your 50s, it's not quite as significant as your 60s, 40s, not quite, but it's, you're on the way there. So I'll give you general guidelines afterwards. But as you get older,

your body becomes less and less receptive to the amino acids in the way protein. Two of the amino acids in the stake. Yeah, there's an issue around the digestion, but it's less the digestion. Like you actually, you're still digesting the protein, you're still freeing it up. And even like a way of protein, it's not that hard to digest. Yeah. The essential amino acids are still getting freed and released into the blood. But your ability to stimulate new protein synthesis

of losing specifically in that supplement to be 40% of the total dose. In a way protein, it's about 25%. So it's significantly more losing as part of the total mix. You overcome that anabolic

resistance. So losing enriched essential amino acids, which is like, what I do at key on this,

what key on amino's are, they're going to have six times the impact as a way protein powder for an older adult. For a younger adult, it's like three times the impact for an older adult, it's six times the impact. And the reason for that is because the older you get, you're simply not as receptive to the amino acids. And so is there a way to overcome it? Yes, it's getting a lot more loosing in that dose. So now, getting back to your question. What should

I take after I work out? Well, how old are you? What kind of training have you been doing? You know, what are your ultimate goals? And then your question, too, like, well, can you combine them? And so what I would say is, you know, if you're pretty hungry and you really want to feel full,

“have a protein shake or a, you know, eat a whole food meal. If you want to really overcome any”

anabolic resistance or you just want to like juice it a little bit more, take amino acids with it. And you're going to get a much larger anabolic response and get even better utilization out of that

protein that you ate by combining it with the essential amino acids. If after you train,

you're not really that hungry. It's weird. Like, sometimes certain types of training, like, I'm just like not that hungry afterwards. Almost like I feel like if I eat it'll make you kind of nauseous. Yeah. In that case, take essential amino acids. They're going to do the same thing that you get from the protein, but it's a much smaller, lighter dose. It's like, there's like no weight in your stomach. You know, I mean, it's, it's really just, it becomes,

you take it as capsules, like a fruity beverage. It's like you just drink some water. So they're both great tools. Yeah, they're both great tools. I think one, one thing I would name, though, also, and it's something to kind of work through and help people understand, oftentimes people think of amino's and they think BCAA's and they think recovery drink. And what I would say is, yeah, amino's are good for recovery, but you'll get way more benefit taking them before you work out.

And the reason for that is taking essential amino acids before you work out means they get into the

blood and then you have all this increased blood flow. You're pushing the amino acids into your muscle. So there's a significantly synergistic effect between the amino acids stimulating protein synthesis and you're pushing more and more than into the blood. So, I mean, if you own an amino company like me, I take them before I work out, I take them out, they work out. I take them all the time, but like if you had to choose taking them before you're actually going to get more benefit and likely,

you probably don't want to eat a big protein shake right before you work out, right? And so it's an easier thing to take before and you're going to get more benefit from it. But what I would really say is thinking about amino as an exercise supplement is not the way I think about it at all. It's a daily nutrition supplement that I take first thing every morning. It's something that I use first thing in the morning to turn on that antibiotics witch. First thing in the morning to get this

really large dose of what protein would give me, but I can just drink it fast, take it with my creatine and like boom, I just like got a major kickstart of protein synthesis. My man,

“seeing thing I do every morning with creatine a couple of other things. That's how I start my day.”

I don't eat in the morning. That's what I have before I go walk. It was a few other things I put in there, but spot on. I wanted to ask what about before bed with the idea and the thought if it's hoping you need to rebuild while you're sleeping because I've heard that before and I question that. So what's your thoughts there? Yeah, it's great. It's great before bed. What I would say is like literally essential amino acids work whenever you want to take them. Okay. You take them on an

empty stomach. First thing in the morning or you take them in between meals, boom, you're kickstarting another. You're kickstarting by seeing another bout of protein synthesis and you're getting in your hitting these higher. Again, like you're trying to eat more protein throughout the day. This is like the shortest fastest quickest way to do it in the most efficient effective way. And doing it before bed totally makes sense, especially if you eat a few hours before bed, right? Like if you

on a you eat dinner at six, then go to bed at like nine or ten. Like you kind of, you you had you took in protein and you stimulate some protein synthesis around that six, seven PM time. And then before you go to bed, you're doing it again. And it's like an old, I mean, you think about the old bodybuilder trick of like drinking casing before they go to bed to help kind of have this slow release. It's similar to that. It's just a faster release and it, and it completes this amazing

session of protein synthesis for your body. Yeah, the casing never, it never made me feel

“good before bed. And I started to, yeah, I don't, I'm getting, I mean, honestly, it's like”

having a really slow digestive thing all night while I sleep is like this makes no sense to me. It's a good man. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, before bed is absolute, something I do. I kind of

some before bed. So does it come to a point where you could take too much? What would you recommend?

Because I do like a scoop at a half every day is kind of the what I stay on or to depending on how hard I'm training that day, but I generally, non-work out of days is like one and then work out days, one point five and two. So I think it's all, what I would say is one is plenty. Yeah. The safe upper limit is literally a hundred grams a day. So I'd be 20 servings. So 20 scoops a day is the upper limit. And so you're pretty far from like any kind. And I would

just say it's like, it wasn't that at 21, it's not safe. It's just been studied to be safe up to 20 servings a day. And I think it's really, you know, how you want to utilize it. I think a lot of

“people, you know, I mean, like a more normal user takes a scoop every morning. And that's what they do.”

And it gives them energy, focus, clarity, help some build more muscle, stay leaner, you know, hit those higher data kind of protein requirements. And it's just it becomes that one staple doesn't enough. More serious users, I would say either because they are trying to cut weight, right? They're like they're they're cutting calories and they're trying to stay leaner. Because you get all these benefits of what you get from protein for significantly far fewer calories.

Rather than having like, you know, another protein snack, you just have another scoop or two servings of amino's, you're getting more benefit than you would get from trying to have that protein snack for virtually like almost no calories. So, you know, people use it in that way. And then as you're aging, I think this is the situation where taking more really makes more sense. And that's because simply you're not going to be able to be able to eat enough protein, as I mentioned earlier,

to overcome the anabolic resistance. You can't because the way is just even way doesn't really

have enough losing to overcome it. By adding in two scoops, basically two servings like twice a

day, you see people in their 40s, 50s, 60s being able to maintain all their muscle or add a few pounds of muscle within a few months with no other changes. So, I mean, personally for me, and actually, I'll give you one other kind of boundary, more than three servings at once is not worth it. So, up to three servings at one time has basically linear improvement. Like, literally, you take, you take two servings at once. It's basically twice as good as taking one serving. Three

servings, it's three times as good as taking one. After that, your body simply doesn't increase the amount of total protein synthesis. So, I take three servings every single morning. And again, though, like, I kind of have, you know, I'm not budgeting around it. I have limited amino source, but you know, I take three servings every single morning. I typically take three servings. Some other time during the day, it kind of depends on like what I'm eating that day,

and what my, you know, I don't fall like a super rigid specific diet every single day. Yeah. And then if I, you know, and then probably, again, one more time during the day. So, I mean, I could be up to nine servings a day, which, again, is like less than half of what the total safe limit is. And it, I feel great. I don't like it's growing on trees. Like, you know what, I mean, beauty hat there, but yeah, it's, it's good to know, though, because there, you know,

people do like to push a little bit. That's good to know what's safe and whatnot. And what's effective and what's not because, you know, but one servings, plenty. I mean, the one serving is a great, what, what I'd say is like, you start taking one serving a day every single morning

“over the course. Immediately, I think, particularly to if you don't eat first thing in the morning,”

you're immediately going to experience improvements in mood, mental fatigue, etc. Because these amino acids also are the precursors of your neurotransmitters. Like, literally all the chemicals in your brain through which you experience emotion and focus and attention come from these amino acids.

So you give it that first thing in the morning, you're going to experience improvements in mood,

you know, energy, etc. And then over time, through that consistency, if even again, just that one little small habit, you experience the improvements to body composition to overall health, etc. I can vouch why I've been doing it for so long. We're going to have to do a part two, man. I enjoyed a lot that, and I swear there's a lot of other things. I want to ask you one more question in closing, and then we will discuss often about revisiting another episode.

You know, most places just sell powders and you have capsules along with powders. Is there any difference in the efficacy when you take one or the other, or they can do, they both kind of work the same. They work the same. Okay. Yeah, that's a simple answer. It's really just if you, if you're someone who likes capsules and you can just take them down really quickly, or you're someone who likes to drink more like a flavor drink, yeah, that's really it. Yeah, I like to

enjoy something that tastes like the while. You know, I mean, like it's my only, well,

“the company is key on. I can tell you this, the first thing that ever drew me to the company was”

the way that it is produced because it's clean. There's no BS that's going to cause you problems

made me be a long term customer. Because I know what you do, I know what you put into it. I know

what the real messaging and the desire is behind it, which makes me want to use it more and makes me want to showcase you to everybody out there. Dude, this over exceeded my expectation on the knowledge base. I knew you were so solid, but even more so accentuated where I already knew about you. And so I appreciate not just the time and the information, but you as a person. And as a business man, and I just want to let you know that when I see that, it means a lot to me as a

person that has been in this for so long and seen so much. I hate to say it's a rarity because I don't

want to say that and act like everybody's so bad, but it's not a common place. So thank you for everything that you're doing. Thanks, Dylan. That was great to be here and again, man, like your vibe is so good and your positivity and your, yeah, you just, you feel blessed, man. So I love being around you. Thanks. Tell me me and everybody else out there, where to find you, if they want to follow you, any, are you putting out any content or anything like that? And then also, if you could just give

“a couple nuggets on where to check key on out, I'm going to leave a discount code in the”

description for everybody that you guys have graced me with to use. But if there's any info on the site where people can read more anything that you're putting out, it would be great to know. Yeah. So, I mean, I think if you're interested more in this like subject and want to learn more about key on or amino acids in general, the key on website honestly has tons or really good content. So I think you'll, you'll share that link. You can call us. We literally have like people

in our office. We have real customer service people who you can just call and talk to you, ask any

“questions. And I think if you want to dig in more into like deep science, I think checking out the”

International Society's Sports Nutrition, they have a really good position paper on essential amino

acids that came out a couple of years ago. And again, I think Dr. Arne for Andos, the lead author on that David Churches on at Bob Wolf, Katie Hirsch, really awesome super smart people. And in terms of me, man, it's one of those things to like, I don't run the play where it's like I'm trying to build some personal media brand. You know, it's like my passion really is like in building awesome products and helping educate people about them. So my primary way of doing that is going on other people's

platforms and helping educate and tell the stories. So I don't, I don't have some place to someone to come, you know, learn more about Angela. I'm not, there's no Angelo height machine. Yeah, you're missing the boat. You're like, I got to tell you you're missing the boat because they're you're you're you're content and you're background in your knowledge base. It would be it would serve a great purpose. But I appreciate you going on to other shows and

“releasing that. But I think you're, I think you're missing out my friend. But I'll make sure”

to let people see that. So the code is get Keyon.com backslice Dylan 20% off. You, or you don't need to code. I'm sorry, the link is get keyon.com backslice Dylan 20% off. No code needed. Use my link, save yourself 20% use what I use, use what many other people use and get the best, the best of the best. So thank you, Angelo. Much appreciated. I look forward to speaking to you off camera and hopefully having you on your get. Thanks, Don. I can't wait till next time. Awesome man. That wraps it up,

everybody. Stay tuned for Plenty Mortocom, Dylan, Gemelli and Angelo Keyley. Sign it off.