Monica Lewinsky Reveals All: Life-Changing Lessons on Reclaiming Your Story, Your Power & Your Life! It’s Never Too Late!

Yours just happened to be the President of the United States

and the most powerful man in the world, Mary.

And Mary, they need to own that. That became one of the most public vilifications and collective public shemings of just about any woman in our history. Yeah, I mean, the scale, the scale of the press,

you instantly became a household name.

“I remember waking up and I flipped in the water gate”

apartment complex newspapers down the entire hallway and seeing my name there for something that was awful and destructive to so many people personally, watching myself be torn apart. And I already had self-esteem issues.

Like, I wouldn't have been in this situation if I didn't have self-esteem issues. I think that it was also reflective of women how we feel about women. You know, the same way that there were women

tied to opposed and burned into steak and called a witch. Yes.

And so those things have always been in our collective history.

You know, it was not a physical burning, but a public burning, but an emotional burning. It wasn't called the Clinton scandal. It was called the Lewinsky scandal. Let's try and name everywhere to our family's name.

Your family's name is not even just me. But everybody who had my last name suffered. When someone has gone through so much, you've made it through to the point where you're helping others make it through.

And that's what's so powerful.

“And that's what I'm most excited about today.”

You're in 40 wrap songs. (laughs) Or however the number is up to now. Over a hundred, twenty-bond and twenty-five wrap songs. Don't get residuals.

No. You're here. You have the power to reclaim your story to reclaim the narrative of who you truly are and to reclaim your life.

And today, we are talking about reclaiming with my guest and friend Monica Lewinsky. If you've ever felt like your past maybe a past mistake, a bad decision, an embarrassing failure, or something painful

that's happened to you in your past is holding you back or defining who you are. Maybe that past version of yourself that others new you for has been lingering over you and keeping you stuck from stepping

into the next most beautiful, powerful version of yourself.

What's a day's episode is for you and I am so excited for this. We can learn so much from each other's stories and we may share powerful conversations like the one we're having today together.

It can help us feel less alone and more enough in this one miraculous life. There were a number of moments where it just felt unbearable. I just did not think I could take another breath.

The difficulty that I experienced in those first few years in some ways pailed in comparison to what happened later when I really felt confronted with no future. I had a real, I was naive in thinking that

I still sort of had this naive side to me that was like, oh, well, when people get to know me and they get to really know me, then they'll like me. They'll understand and that's not at all what happened. One aspect of a collective story

is that the collective has to be ready, too.

“And you're up against this, yeah, just machine, right?”

She called me and she was like, I have this realization that because you're in the collective consciousness, that when you shift your consciousness, you're shifting the consciousness of everybody whose mind you have been in.

Shame, guilt, publicly, public humiliation. It's an amazing trifecta, Jamie. And what does that healing look like and what's worked? It was really when I started doing the energetic work and the resonance work, that started to shift everything.

- Really? - And you've shared you voted for her? - Yes, I did. - Yes, I did. - Monica Lewinsky is the host

of the wildly successful podcast called Reclaiming. So make sure you check that out right away, it's so good. She's also a producer, social and anti-bullying activist, global public speaker, and a contributing editor to Vanity Fair.

Her focus is on storytelling that moves the conversation forward around shame, reclaiming identities and justice for women. She's also the executive producer of the twisted tale

Monica authored the legendary essay, shame and survival for Vanity Fair,

“in which she re-examined her personal experiences”

at the center of a political legal and global media fire storm connected to the impeachment of President Clinton and challenged the often misogynistic culture of shame that continues to cannibalize the powerless. Monica's TED Talk on the price of shame

has been viewed by over 22 million people.

Monica holds a master's degree from the London School of Economics. She's also smart and incredibly witty, maybe the best curator of Instagram content that will make you literally laugh out loud daily.

She's a loving aunt, competitive majan player, and I'm so honored to say a loving friend. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I wanna welcome you to the Jamie Kernie Michelle,

podcast, family, and if you're here right now, can you do me a favor? If you like the show and you love the guests that I bring you, can you please hit the subscribe or follow button on the app that you're listening

or watching on, it truly means the world to me. Thank you. Also, I wanna remind you, this episode is not just for you and me.

“Please share this with every single person”

that you know because what you're about to hear

will change your life and theirs.

- Welcome to Jamie Kernie Michelle. - Oh, Brad, how have you defied the eye? - Her show is unlike any I've ever done. - A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug,

but your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow, the Linda French gates. - When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her. I could see the light around her.

She's infused with light. Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kernie Michelle. - Jamie Kernie, leave us for a name.

Everybody needs Jamie Kernie and the wife. - Jamie Kernie Michelle. - Jamie, you're so inspiring. - Jamie Kernie, leave us. - Monica Lewinsky, welcome to the Jamie Kernie Michelle.

- Wow, thanks Jamie. - I'm so excited you're here. - I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. I've had the gift through a mutual friends,

of us meeting and getting to know you and my daughter's obsessed with me. - Thank you. - The cutary boards. - They are the best shark who to report.

- I know. - We can have her own store. - A little chef wonder. - Exactly. - And it was so fun when we went to the viewing party

of Shark Tank.

I'll never forget this moment,

I've never seen her do this before. We're all in the group of friends, watching Shark Tank premiere that I did and I look up and wonder sitting on your lap. - Yeah.

- Just to be on your lap, watching the whole show. And like, oh, so you are a magnet for love 'cause she's discerning, she is discerning. So I'm excited to just talk about all things

“reclaiming 'cause I think it's a universal experience”

if we're blessed enough to do it. And I want to say also off the top congratulations on your show. That is exploding. That is so successful.

Like right out of the gate. - Thank you. - Yeah. - Thank you. I'm grateful.

- Very grateful. - Yeah. - I actually was really nice. Was I got, for me, what could have been the highest compliment from one of the young.

I call her producer, even though that's probably not her technical title on a show I'm working on right now. Who's that mean email? And she said, I don't know how you've done it, but when I finish listening, I feel less alone.

And so that is just, I could not ask for anything more than for people to feel connected to the conversation. I know, I'm sure you feel this way too because you have that in your conversations that there's just something I think

when people show up and it's an authentic space and you have good intentions that people can feel it and they can plug in. - Yeah. - So, let's high feel when I have conversations with you.

Just off camera, which is why I was so excited when you shared you're gonna be launching your podcast. So I'm like, oh, that's gonna be good. - Oh. - That's gonna be good.

And I know it's like, for every person, scary to launch something new and to put yourself out there, but I already knew. I already knew from what happened, like just from meeting you off camera

and just having normal friend talks. It was like, oh, that's gonna be good. This is gonna be good. So, everyone listening, if you haven't checked out, we're reclaiming a check it out right now.

And make sure, let me just do this for a friend right now. Make sure you follow it, subscribe, and leave a review and share it.

- Okay.

- A lot of people don't know that.

- I know, I know you don't know. - Can I do that? - Yes. - I knew the, the subscribe one. So, we'll follow.

- Yeah. - It's follow and subscribe the same thing, no? - Depending, yeah, you can subscribe on YouTube, follow on like, God old Spotify, all the apps. - Yeah, yeah.

And then have the time to change what they use as their words and videos. So, just, yeah, no, it's so good and just congratulations. I know how much work it is and you can feel it, you know,

there's, you feel when someone's just opening their heart and when they're in tension, they're in tension is there.

“And so, I think you're sharing that people are saying”

I feel less alone. - Yeah.

- That's so beautiful, 'cause I feel like that's...

- I don't know. - I mean, it is, I think one of the things, one of the reasons I thought it would be interesting to do a podcast was, since I was a kid, I've kind of been someone for whatever reason

that people felt like they could unburden themselves to, you know? And so, whether it was before we even, you know, as kids would have language of like, I'm gonna tell you a secret, I haven't told anybody, or when I was the teenager of somebody saying

some version of like, I don't know why I'm telling you this, but, you know, when I've had that throughout my life, and so, I hope it's because people feel, even from before '98, but after '98, just a level of compassion that I have for people

and I try to not be judgmental, even though I am sometimes secretly, but not, you know, not with people in the moment, I'm just out in the world, like, oh, she shouldn't wear that. But, yeah, do you get that sense on the show

to you that people would just like, ha, just exhale? But I feel like that is the biggest compliment when someone tells you, you know, Monica, I feel less alone, listen to your show, 'cause at the end of the day,

I feel like so many of us do feel alone, or we feel like our setbacks are our failures, or somehow mean something wrong with us, and it must not happen anyone else, or our, you know, stories, or, you know,

in my case, I have so many people who maybe are launching a business or an idea, or something, and they've had, like, you know, all these setbacks, and they've thought it, or they're trying to write a book,

and no publisher will take it yet, and then they think that they're alone in their experience, because when they look online and social, everyone's highlight reals out there, and they think it's just them,

“and so that's what fills my heart the most”

when people say that, they're like, oh my gosh, you got rejected that many times, building it cosmetics, and you still made it, I feel like I could do it to you, you know, and where they have these sort of, like, revelations, and I think, you know,

it's so funny, you know, I, you know, and I were talking so much off-camera, then, I'm like, oh, hey, we gotta start recording. Okay, we're just about reclaiming, and how many versions of that that we can take on,

and so just off the top. Today's conversations all about reclaiming your own story, and reclaiming who you are, and that is something every single one of us, and our own hero's journey,

and this one beautiful life can connect with, and, you know, because our listeners of the show's been all ages, Monica just to give anyone who maybe might not know this piece of your story, I want to give them some context,

and I want to touch on a season in your past, when you lost your merit, and the shame that came with that, and then we're gonna dive into how you are reclaiming it, and how we all can do that in our own lives in 1998.

“You were 22, I think about when I was 22,”

oh my goodness, you're 22, you graduated college, you headed to Washington, DC for an internship, or you fell in love with your boss, which I'll just say, that's easy to do, whether it's your professor, whether it's, I mean, yep.

So you fell in love with your boss, yours just happened to be the president of the United States,

and the most powerful man in the world, Mary, and Mary,

and need to own that, but, and the two of you began a romantic relationship that lasted two years, and the public revelation of that relationship, that turned into the largest legal investigation

and political and media firestorm, and became one of the most public vilifications and collective public shemings of just about any woman in our history. Yeah, I mean, the scale, the scale of the press,

you instantly became a household name, your life was completely turned upside down in a way that lasted decades and changed everything. You say, you lost your anonymity, your future, your sense of self, your ability to trust yourself,

and you almost lost your life. And you say that at 24, I lost my narrative or rather it was stolen from me, and the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was, you served by false narratives,

callous jokes, and politics. The fact that I've reclaimed my narrative of my voice

because there were many moments

where I wasn't really sure that I would survive. Yep, can you share a little about that

“from the person that's considering what you may have went through?”

Outside of just what they saw on the news. Yeah, well, I think, you know, for me, I had the ironic luck of this story exploding at a point in time in our media history, right? So we had traditional news, traditional news on the radio,

newspapers, we now also had had 24 hour news for 20 years with CNN, but in 1996 and '07 was when the competition started with Fox and MSNBC. And so what that meant was the 24 hour news was changing with competition, right?

And then on top of that was the internet, and was this sort of new kind of wild wild west of, you know, we didn't have social media yet, but every day people were starting to find their voices through making comments and every outlet had their own website.

So it started to mean, you know, that sort of old adage of, you know, yesterday's news is tomorrow's fish paper was no longer true, right? It was going to be everywhere accessible

to everybody forever. And it meant the story kind of ballooned and exploded faster, too. So something that might have taken longer to reach people. So those are sort of the unemotional pieces of the landscape.

“But for me personally, you know, I just, I remember,”

I knew the investigation was going to become public before most of the world did, because there had been this FBI stain several days before, and I was threatened with 27 years in jail for having,

it was like, crimes, one of them I had never even heard of,

the morning perjury. So I didn't even know what that was. You were 24. I was 24, right? Yeah.

And so, but in that moment of, I remember waking up. And we need to pause for a super brief break and while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire.

Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going,

“to remember that they matter and to feel less alone”

and more and enough, more connected and more worthy. In life, you don't sort the level of your hopes and dreams you stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build yourself worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy,

how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results,

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achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are Worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you are born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt

and unshakable self-worth.

Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts

for you at Worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief.

And I love to hang out with you even more especially if you can use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me.

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“If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day”

and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jameycurrentleema.com or in the link in the show notes. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative

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And now more of this incredible conversation together.

I remember waking up and I lived in the Watergate apartment complex with my mom and opening the apartment door and because it was DC, everybody in this was the Dave's, you know, newspapers were still a thing. So it's like newspapers down the entire hallway

and looking at the newspaper and seeing my name there, was not something I had ever contemplated at such a young age and certainly not for something that was awful and destructive to so many people personally to have a country was being run to everybody in our country.

“I think that, you know, the impact was enormous.”

And to just to watch myself, the person that I knew myself to be that I thought of how I was in the world to sort of watch, maybe it almost like if you think of a bird with feathers and you imagine pulling a feather off the bird. And each feather was like a piece of meat.

And instead what was being replaced in those feathers were different feathers that other people wanted to see me and to define me. And so it was a long side, all the shock and the fear of legal ramifications was just watching myself

be torn apart and I already had self-esteem issues. Like I wouldn't have been in this situation if I didn't have self-esteem issues. And so it was just very much if it hadn't been for my friends

“and my family, I think over the course of that year”

who continued to kind of remind me of my true self. I just, I would have been so lost, lost into the sea and the abyss of just the anger and the hate and the vitriol for me, but also I think because of the story, I think because of the nature of the story and it being a collective story, I think that it was also reflective of women,

how we feel about women. You know, the same way that there were women tied to a post and burned at a stake and called a witch.

And so those things have always been in our collective history.

You know, it was not a physical burning, but a public burning, but an emotional burning. I'm imagining what you're describing of like, plucking out one feather at a time. It's like of who you are, like your identity or your,

and then they'd be replaced by all of this. I feel like so many of us can relate to this. If we've had something happen in elementary school that just almost, or as an adult where we did something and then all of a sudden someone else is making a judgment on us and telling us who we are.

I'm like, I'm right there with you. I'm feeling you walk out of the door and seeing papers lined up with you on them.

And you went from, you know, my mom always used to call me,

"Brideye, I wish you tell. I'm thinking when you went to this Brideye, like, you know, you're going to Washington, do you see loving it the whole thing?" And you're now 24 and your name is everywhere.

And in ways that you don't want. Yes, you know, it's your cancer.

“Yes, yes, and I think what something you just said”

that's really important and I wish we made more progress than we have on this. But a lot of people don't realize this. It wasn't called the Clinton scandal. Yeah, it was called the Lewinsky scandal, right? And I just think about like, oh my gosh, in 2026,

if you have a 22 year old intern, right?

And having a relationship with the most powerful,

not even that any boss, let alone a boss twice their age, but it doesn't even, it's any boss, you know, it's so easy for people to think, oh yeah, of course, he would be fired or he would, you look back on what happened. And the public perception and what you went through,

it was the Lewinsky scandal. It's your name everywhere, it's your family's name. Your family's name, you know, it's not even just me, but everybody who had my last name suffered in that way.

“And also, I think one of the things that I'm sure”

was an unintentional, what's the word I'm looking for? Fucking perimenopause. But I think that it was an unintentional consequence of having it called the Lewinsky scandal. Also meant it wasn't going to go away for me,

because it cemented my name in people's memories more. And in that sense, that was, as my main therapist is a trauma psychiatrist, and as she'll say, is this sort of the long echo of trauma, that this, you know, the long week of the shadow of this scandal,

and how long it, like, I was carrying that mantle, and I still doing some ways, although it's changed. It's had it in large part to do with because it was called that, because my name was then seared in people's minds or images, and it contributed to what I lost for so long.

“And I think, you know, one thing I want to ask everyone listening”

and watching us right now is just to take a moment and think about maybe a few things that have happened to in your past, that maybe have chipped away at your own identity, whether you're even aware of it or not, because in our conversation, what I'm so excited to do, through what you have done,

and what you've gone through, and the woman that you continue to become,

and you're offering out into the world, is so powerful.

And I think that's part of why I'm so excited for today, because there's many people that don't actually know or maybe haven't considered everything you've soldered, and everything almost like the way a phoenix rises from the ashes, the impact you're having now in the world, the impact you've had,

and so many others who have gone through bullying or gone through shaming, the impact you're having now with your show, and the thing I'm most excited about is every person at home actually going, wait a minute, I want to consider what parts of my own story have I, maybe they're still stuck in that part where someone plucked their feathers out

and put in their own and somebody told them something about who they are, put a label on them, or they've put, so often we put labels on ourselves, we're like, oh, you know, I hear from so many women that are like, you know, I realize it wasn't just that I failed in my business or I failed in my, I thought I failed in my marriage or I thought I've been,

but I actually think I'm a failure, and there's going to be so many people listening this right now, that through our conversation are going to realize, oh wow, I plucked my own feathers out, put in new ones that are called failure or called not enough or called not lovable, and through our conversation where I'm so excited about this is because when someone has gone through so much and then they've,

and I know it's a journey forever and know all of us will continue to go through our stuff forever, but you've made it through to the point where you're helping others make it through, and that's what's so powerful and that's what I'm like most excited about today,

having somebody from high school or see their thing they posted on Facebook and not like it or

make a side comment or they get bad reviews on yelp for their, you know, lawyer practice,

“we can all relate to just this like, yeah, so many people are also, I think about the divorce rate,”

and we think about how divorce is structured and just that the, what gets written in the divorce files, you know, or the papers, the submissions, you know, that it's vilifying character, exactly exactly, so I mean it's, and that's you are, you know, I've seen from, both my own parents having gotten divorced and having lots of friends who have gotten divorced, that it's, you know, you are losing an identity, and so I think it's when you are vulnerable

to those kinds of things that you're more vulnerable, you're more vulnerable to having other people stick the feathers in. In the year after, and then the year after that, can you take us through what that look like? Yeah, because you're in 40 rapsongs, or however, the number is up to now, over 125 and 25 rapsongs, don't get residuals. Oh, gosh. I was, I mean, you talk about your family and how your parents showed up for you and

you say that, um, they wouldn't let you even shower with the door closed because, yeah,

“you, I think, shared that you first few nights didn't want to wake up the next morning.”

Again, you take us through that. Yeah, I, you know, there were a number of moments throughout the investigation where it just felt unbearable. I just did not think I could take another breath, and when my parents saw those signs or felt their, you know, parental intuition of wanting to protect me, you know, it was, it was really that,

the first night when, uh, so the night of the FBI staying, I was in this hotel room and eventually

waiting for my mom to come from New York. And by the time we finally got to leave, I had been there for, I think, 12, 13 hours. And my mom didn't think we were going to be able to leave. And so she, um, but when we got home and, oh, a bunch of other things, but it was probably around for a, um, and I finally took a shower. And, um, you know, she just, I remember her

“sort of coming and, and saying, you know, Munkai, you have to leave the door open. And I understood,”

and I understood why. And, and, um, and it was, you know, it was really painful for, for, for everybody in my family in different ways, um, because I think both, you know, to remember that even though bills family was also going through pain, they were in a very different world, in a very different, and had different experiences. And we're in a place that was very protected with a lot of support, um, that was paid for. And, and, and they understood this world,

where is we didn't. And so I come from a very smart family, but that doesn't mean you can understand how to navigate a, a different universe, you know, of politics of media. And so it was, um, you know, I think for, for all of us, there was just a lot of fear, a lot of not knowing, um, how to move forward. And I think for them of knowing how to protect me. So, um, but it's interesting because I think, you know, in, in the process of, um, you know, setting up the podcast, I think that there was this,

really looking back and, um, seeing the kind of Gestalt of my, my whole story in these last 27

years, and the difficulty that I experienced in those first few years, um, in some ways,

pailed in comparison to what happened later when I really felt confronted with no future, and no purpose. And so, you know, those first few years after 98, I, I leaned into trying to be a

and I didn't authorise, by all, well, that I did impart, you know, to, um, to pay legal.

And I said, I said, your legal bills, right? Um, and she didn't want to begin right exactly.

“Yeah. And which no one offered to cover. Um, so, uh, and, but I think it was also, you know,”

there were ways that I, I had a real, I was naive in thinking that, um, I still sort of had this naive side to me that was like, oh, well, when people get to know me, and they get to really know me, then they'll like me. They'll understand. And, and, and that's not at all what happened. I think, you know, people did get to know me over time. I did try to put my version of the story out there, but one aspect of, um, one aspect of a collective story is that the collective has to be ready,

too. Right. And, um, and you're up against this, yeah, just machine, right? But it was interesting because after I went to graduate, so I went to graduate school in 2005 and, um, on a couple, I know, one of my trips back to London after I had coffee with a professor who had been my tutor there, also, so what they call tutor. It's not they say, tutor in the UK is not the same

as tutor in the US, but, um, she was an amazing doctor, Sandra J. Telavitch, and, um, we'd coffee,

and she had taught the class on power and communities that I had taken, and she had said to me, she said, um, I can't do her Brazilian accent well, but she's Brazilian, and, and she had just said that there's no competing narrative that, that I, that the people with power had written the narrative for me, and that there has to be a competing narrative for that to change. And I wasn't ready to hear that when she said it, um, but it lodged in my brain. In, in the same way, I had another friend

who had been my friend Anne had been meditating on a pyramid in Mexico, and she called me and she was like, I have this, you know, like, realization that because you're in the collective consciousness, you know, that when you shift your consciousness, you're shifting the consciousness of everybody whose mind you have been in. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, that I'm like, you're crazy. That's like, can't be the case. And, you know, and she was really powerful. You know, something about the hundred

monkey, I don't know, something or another. And, um, it just, but I think those things, sometimes,

“I think sometimes in our, in our journeys, we hear things that are really important seeds that are”

planted. And I was going to say that, yeah, long before, long before they start to germinate. Yes. So, in that, in the first few years, then I want to get to, when you're 39, and some of those moments, um, because I think our journey to healing, our journey to reclaiming is almost

never linear. No, this first few years, I mean, I feel like again, everyone of us has had different

experiences where we're like, oh gosh, everyone at work knows this happened or everyone at school, this hot or my friend group, this or this is so painful and all the things, yours is on such a profound scale. In, in the first few years, could you leave the house and go to a restaurant? We need to pause for a super brief break and while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be

“the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter”

and to feel less alone and more and enough, more connected and more worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I love to hang out with you even more, especially if you can use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter. To you, deliver straight to your inbox, each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week,

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“and what would happen. Once I got a immunity in 98 I think things started to change and then after”

I testified before the grand jury it what it became was sort of in these larger moments of the stories so the star report coming out and I came to know or to learn okay if this thing is going to happen they're going to be people outside my apartment so I started to try to yeah and started to try to plan for things like that and then there were moments where I didn't know something had happened and then I'd get followed in the car in LA and and separate from paprats you just

how are regular people just regular people when you'd go to a restaurant or go to a college at you know I was I was I consider myself lucky in the sense that maybe I could count on one or two hands like the number of times somebody was actually really rude directly to my face. Did I notice tutoring and restaurants and you know things like that? Sure. Did people my friends and some of my family have to experience more of that in ways of people taking liberties of

“saying things to them yeah how did it impact your family when their name is so public?”

I'm just really lucky I have an amazing family I really do I'm I'm so grateful I think that for the

most part everybody understood that no matter what they experienced it wasn't going to be as bad as what I went through and what it felt like for me and so I imagine there are a lot of conversations that have happened without me because they've tried to protect me and I appreciate that because something you know and and we've all felt this way in different circumstances is when people you love are impacted by something negative that you did or caused you feel guilt you feel a lot of guilt

Jamie it's just I was able to go to restaurants but I had to be careful about which restaurants I went to because sometimes they would call the paparazzi or you know if I would read about what I

ate in one restaurant I never went back to that restaurant but then there were places

there's a I don't know if you've ever been to the great dog cafe in New York oh it's great

“next time you're there you should go the best coffee in the city and they you know we're little”

restaurant owned by two brothers they say little it's not little anymore they're they're numerous ones but it was a real safe haven for me in New York and so I would go there and have breakfast and in fact one of my best friends still to today I met there so you know it's that's the magic of creating a safe space for people is you know it's not just good food it's the connections that can

happen there unless a lifetime when you went you got your master's degree you got your master's degree

London School of Economics this is a big deal you come out of school and you say no one would hire you yeah yeah you take us through that sure so you know these are the things nobody thinks about you know they right and then they go through stuff like that in their inversion and they think that

“they're alone well I think I think also two what's important to note is not only what are the”

ways that people may connect from their own lives to that story but we're also all participants in these public stories that happen yes and I think we often um once the headlines go away we rarely think about that person again and sort of what the what the long tale um of their experiences been how that how that can impact you know moving forward or not being able to move forward but you know I went to graduate school it just it became clear trying to be a public person

was not working on so many different levels and I was so unhappy and so the thinking was okay

why don't I try to go back you know my therapist at the time was always talking about getting

back on a normal developmental path like how do I do that in every step of the way whether it's you know I dated then still or you know what what how was I trying to support myself in the same way that a 25 year old would be trying to support themselves and you know all different ways but going to graduate school was uh was really about trying to build a new bridge to a future and and a future where I my name might be less known um for certain things and I am able to start

having the life that I was supposed to have and um it was it was it was just a process where it was timing um it it just didn't work it didn't work you know did you go on job interviews yeah and I mean I interviewed it I mean maybe this doesn't sound like a lot but over 50 places and yeah so um and each time for me was anxious making you know I would I had one experience where I I went in and the person who is interviewing me was more nervous than I was and they had certain

ticks that came out and so it's trying to manage someone else's anxiety when I myself was anxious because it was so important to me to come across a certain way and to get hired and to try to have this future you know it's um it's I don't know why this is what's coming up but I'm thinking about Gilligan's island and like every episode of Gilligan they almost got rescued you know and there's that thing where you just it's like they almost got rescued but then of course it doesn't happen

and so that was how it would feel of this okay I by getting a job I would be rescued from what happened to me and that would open up a new future and and sort of trying to find this future that I had so desperately wanted and people who left me wanted for me too you know it eventually became

“impossible I think it was impacted certainly by the financial crisis we went through in 2008”

it was impacted by the politics that um of course like obviously she had every right to run but Hillary running for office impacted my ability to get a job and the Clintons still being

yes I did I want to put this in perspective because I feel like I have the blessing now of knowing you as a friend and how freaking smart you are and I'm imagining how smart you are and then you get your masters from London School of Economics you go on 50 interviews and no one will hire you

“yeah so I know you've had so many people ask you this question and I thought I think your”

answer so profound that I have to ask it is you know so many people have asked you well why didn't you just change your name yeah and I it's I thought about it I mean we we discussed it many times in my family um and when I was sitting to write a resume I you know thought about it again

but ultimately I think I came to two very different things one was more a fact of life and the

and the other was um something stronger in my soul and the first being I don't know that that actually would have been able to work I don't know that it I think that at the level of name recognition and and especially at that time still I it just by the time that the paper work like was coming out of you know a lawyer would be coming out of of taking paperwork into be you know legally verified and having a name change it would have been all over the newspaper

“and sit right so there was that piece to it but I think the other piece that that took me time”

to find in myself and took me time to stand behind was that I shouldn't have to change my name and so I shouldn't have to be um I regretted and felt a lot of shame about many choices I'd made in my life both ones that led to 98 and earlier and other times that I you know I think all of us have have done things they don't all become public but I wasn't ashamed of who I was as a person someone asked you well why didn't you change your name and you also said no one's ever asked right

Clinton to change his name and I and that's the standing in in many ways for the man I don't think I've ever heard a man who's been through a scandal being asked you know and and that is part of the

“you know cloak of shame that women are expected to wear and so that was also I think that's an”

important thing for all of us women especially young women to remember of um and so often that cloak of shame women are expected to wear is actually put on you and reinforce by other women when we realize that we're like wait a minute wait a minute um I remember a Chelsea handler on the show saying that in her early career and she's so pro women and in her career she's like it was women that didn't want me to succeed in her early parts of her career and I feel like

over so many generations you know the roles we've been taught to play in these sort of like misogynistic views that we don't even realize are just sort of like part of culture that so often

we're doing the thing to others that we would never want done on to us and having that realization is so big

it's so big I remember the first time realizing wait why was it called the Lewinsky scandal wait a minute no no we would ever ask build a changes like just all of these realizations and and and and yes we have come far but but I think that's a much no I get asked a lot if yeah if um I think that things would be different today yes and I while I do think some things would be different yeah I don't think it would be as different as we'd like to

think it would be right you know we've made strides but not enough and sometimes the strides we make we get you know long back by a big gust yes so interesting even to this day when you look at no matter what political party people are are part of or how they vote it it's really every party is this way that when you have you know woman running versus a man just the press coverage is so fundamentally different yeah the way their appearance is attacked the way different parts

of them is vilified it's so it's just it's still wild to see um how different it is and I know

you mentioned earlier that the first few years after 98 um we're hard you talk about

lots like like not wanting to wake up you talk about the things that your family has gone through

said a few minutes ago that you hit a point where you're like what is my future and my purpose

“yeah I think it um you know this was a large part of I call it my dark decade and you know”

this process of trying to move forward and yet feeling like I was both frozen in amber and stuck in molasses and in quicksand you know what decade was this what is so this was coming out of graduate school so it might early 30s and I kind of I feel like it was this tail you know to me the tail end it's 30 to 40 was that decade and even though I was still a public person like I was still um trying to find my way as a public person in my early 30s and then I

went to graduate school and and and those weren't as dark as what came in the years that followed they were all part of the same thing of me struggling to to to find my way and to find this to find what my purpose was to find how how how how was the life how was a life going to blossom even though

I I've always had friends and I so lucky that way and um lucky for a lot of different reasons

there is something about having purpose and it's actually you know we don't have to go into this whole long thing but it's actually what I worry about with AI a lot is people being displaced from their jobs and even with universal basic income yes it doesn't mean you have purpose yes you know

“and um so it's 39 you talk about age 39 yeah it was it was a it was a bad year I think it”

is so valuable for people to hear that so often coming out of these enormous painful storms

can be the rainbow it doesn't always happen and sometimes you think okay fine I'm almost through

the storm and then it turns out oh guess what there's another fucking storm coming like you have several storms and then but I I do think we end up somewhere um we end up somewhere better 39 for me was I had been trying so hard to move forward and after I had done all the job hunting then I was um you know trying to be an entrepreneur with zero business experience except I was good at spending money you know and it was like I I had creative ideas but I'm not

because I'm labor rising I can always see two sides to something so trying to make a decision

about something on my own was really hard because I kept being able to go against it so it was that and then I came to a point where I thought I would okay I might step back into things and into a public world and maybe there's you know now social media exists and so this kind of public shaming is happening to people who are you know who are public and private you know who have done something wrong and who have done nothing wrong so it I thought okay well maybe I can

be a poster child for having you know survived public shaming even if surviving wasn't really thriving yet I was still here and so um I I tried so hard to learn from my mistakes and to make decisions in a way that I thought okay it'll be different this time and pretty much everything that I built in the few years leading up to 39 fell apart in my 39th year and and I turned 40

“obviously that's what happens after 30 times so is the year I was turning 40 and you know”

really facing having to confront so many of the things that I I had hoped I would have had at that point that I watched many of my friends have and like what I'm like getting married having children having a career something that was fulfilling to them and I think those were I I'd always wanted to have kids you know and and doing it on my own was not an option for me so I froze my eggs at 37 I froze embryos at 37 but it just you know it just wasn't an option

um why uh because I didn't have any financial stability and so it was um and I think

people make around that that's in my mind that's their own decision to make I feel and felt a responsibility around if I was going to bring a child into this world that I'd be able to provide for it at a standard and a level that I felt would help them thrive and I just I didn't think I had the emotional make-up to be a good single parent either so without a lot of resources you know um and

“so I think there were there were a lot of tears shed in 39 and I had in this period I think from”

35 36 I started to do a lot of deep personal work um and it was more non-traditional therapies

I had done some more traditional therapies that did EMDR which is a really powerful

therapy to help with trauma and um moving trauma out of the body and repatterning are brains in certain ways but the like probably the main piece of work that I did based on string theory and it is around our energy bodies and the patterns of energy and blockages and the kinds of things that we bring into our life but also can hold on to and so a lot of that work was having to heal my energy fields from the damage that had been done in 98 and and after and once we sort of got

to a certain point I was able to really repattern some of my relationships, my energetic relationships I know sounds like kind of cookup but um and is all underpinned by compassion you know in both compassion for myself and trying to set my lens to how I move through the world and took things

in with compassion which I try to do I'm not always successful for your healing journey to something

you said earlier you said long before you were able to receive at your friend calls you and said she has this huge aha moment where if you shift your perception of yourself everyone who has you in their consciousness will shift their perception and I'm just thinking of how powerful that is

“because I think about every single one of us when we when we learn to unlearn the lies that lead”

to self-doubt and we learn to believe or worthy really like I think about that when we shift our own identity does that collectively shift. And for some of us our circle might be you know the

moms at school or the you know people at work or the or our family or whatever but it's fascinating

that concept and so going along your journey right now this unimaginable thing happens at 24 and then you spend those years really struggling of course getting your master's coming out that whole journey now you're 39 and you're saying I want how kids I've um I have resume eggs I've frozen embryos I want to have a career I want to have these things and when did you start healing modalities and therapy and what does that journey look like from 24

up through now in terms of like what you found has really worked or really helped on that healing journey and will eventually get into the reclaiming part as well but what are your what are

“your favorite I guess most powerful because I believe our body keeps the score I believe all of it”

yeah and I think for so many people while that book is phenomenally popular for so many people the concept is brand new like when do my body keeps the score oh if I haven't healed the thing that happened then it's still in me and affecting me and so from your journey so far really starting from 24 to now you're 51 what has what is that healing look like and where are you at now and what's worked right yeah well I think what's what's interesting is I I feel like even the

things that I did that I would say didn't work they actually worked in some way and I do think this is it's really um the building blocks of it and so and sometimes it just takes a very long time to circle around to understand what something provided you even if it didn't provide you with the thing that you went in instantly right right you know and so um but I mean I have tried almost every I haven't done psychedelics yet it's something I really but that's the now part but I think

traditional therapy with someone for I think almost 10 years and then when I went to London I had

she was retiring at that point so it was sort of this natural break and I saw somebody briefly in London who was not a good fit for me um but it was really when I started doing the energetic work and the resonance work and um that that was um that started to shift everything really um oh yeah I know I would not be where I am today without having done all of that work so to someone hearing energy and resonance work I know they don't know what that means um there will be people that are

so into it and then the people that they're hearing it for the first time how would you explain what

that is to someone who has never um heard of it but is so curious and wants to know right maybe

you want to look into it yeah it is something that I'm so passionate about and I want to help people we have machines that read energy like an MRI right it reads a vibration it reads a resonance sound and so it's doing work the work I do is sound based so if you didn't know what was happening you would think you were getting some sort of a sound bath but it's really sound that's used to to move on other energies and but what can be complicated is you don't know what's behind

you you know the person I'm working with I get lucky enough he finds a blockage what we don't know

“is is behind the blockage smooth sailing or a hundred other blocks and so that's where I think”

healing can be um complicated yeah it's really and so it is not as you said before it is not linear you know I think of it as like a tilted spiral because the times even that we feel we're going backwards we're actually going down to go up on the next you know on the next ring um do you lay on a table and have a practitioner like tune in sounds to release energy blockage does physical contact or it's rarely as their physical contact but sometimes there is

and it's um I've had experiences where I've gone in under a very heavy dark cloud and walked out a brand new person I've had experiences where I've walked in with a heavy cloud and walked out with the same fucking cloud or seemingly same cloud so it's just um but one of the things was once my once we sort of repaired the my field um was really about repattarning my relationship to fame and that was the first thing that we did towards you know in my 39th year not the first

“thing in my 39th year but that was the first thing that really started to I think I felt as if looking”

back it kind of plucked me up and put me on a different path and that was through the sound

energy work yes okay was that more powerful for you than EMDR or other modalities or maybe it was

different different yeah it's all different because I also I started um doing EFT the tapping emotional freedom techniques so tapping which is which the basis of it is very similar to EMDR it's a little less scientific you know you're not using um but it's around releasing energy that's stored in our body and that energy connected to emotions and experiences and ways that we filter new information coming in we filter experiences that are being offered to us and um so I was doing that

I would I would try anything you know I was just I was so desperate you said 39 that you maybe wondered if you'd make it out of 39 yeah it was an avalanche of disappointments that happened and um and all of those disappointments became blessings so you know everything that fell apart it was it it really was for my own good and it is so hard to see that when you're in it

“when you're in it it is so hard but I think that um I always feel one of the most important parts”

of sharing our stories as we do and in whatever medium right rather it's a podcast or a book

bits they get stored somewhere in us even if we didn't choose to and they're there and they may just come peek out and whisper you know in some of the darkest moments and I feel like that's that's the benefit that's the beauty of doing these kinds of stories this conversation is

so powerful and so inspiring that we made it into more than one part and coming up in this incredible

part two of our conversation on reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky you have the power to reclaim your story to reclaim the narrative of who you truly are and reclaim your life and we are diving it to more insights into how you can do that in your life right now today coming up in the next episode

“of the Jamie Kermley Michelle remember this episode's not just for you and me please share this”

with every single person that you know because it can change their life too and if you love to days episode please click the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening or watching and on give it a five star rating or review and again please share it with everyone that you believe in share it with another person in your life who can benefit from it post it and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons

in this episode today you never know whose life your meant to change today by sharing this episode

and thank you so much for joining me today and before you go I want to share some words with you

“that couldn't be more true you right now exactly as you are are enough and fully worthy”

you're worthy of your greatest hopes your wildest dreams and all the unconditional love in the world and it's an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kermley Michelle here I hope you'll come as you are heal where you need blossom what you choose journey towards your calling and stay as long as you like because you belong here you are worthy you are loved you are love and I love you and I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kermley Michelle

in life you don't sort the level of your hopes and dreams you stay stuck at the level of your self worth when you build yourself worth you change your entire life and that's exactly why I wrote my new book worthy how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you if you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill worthy is for you in worthy you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life changing results like how to get unstuck from the things

holding you back build unshakable self love unlearn the lies that lead to self doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more are you ready to unleast your greatness and step into the person you are born to be imagine a life with zero self doubt and

unshakable self worth get your copy of worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts

for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below imagine what you do if you fully

“believed in you it's time to find out with worthy who you spend time around it's so important as”

energy is contagious and so is self belief and I'd love to hang out with you even more especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me if you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week just go to jameycrillema.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with jamey weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you if you're

tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration some tips tools joy and love hitting your inbox I'm your girl subscribe at jameycrillema.com or in the link in the show notes and please note I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute