#189: Building Army Warriors - Sergeant Major of the Army Mike Weimer & CSM (R) Rick Merritt

deeper that only reveals itself when it matters most? From the Pentagon I sat down on

“Sergeant Major the Army Mike Weimer and retired command Sergeant Major Rick Merit to discuss”

what it truly means to build and sustain warriors in the United States Army. Sergeant Major Merit spent nearly thirty-six years on active duty including twenty-five years in the 75th range of regiment, serving in every enlisted leadership position from riflemen to regimental Sergeant Major. He conducted over fifteen hundred combat operations under joint special operations command and served more than five years in combat task forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

His experience spans the full arc of modern warfare. Together with the SMA we unpack the difference between technical proficiency and a true warrior mindset. Look commitment looks like when compliance disappears and how leaders and force standards without a roading trust. We explore whether resilience is built over time or reveal that a pressure and how purpose is to stay in soldiers when motivation begins to fade. As warfare becomes more technical

and systems driven, the SMA is challenging the force to ensure technology enhances the warrior. Future conflicts will demand innovation and the technological action, but victory of the battlefield will still be decided by human judgment, character and leadership. This is a conversation about standards, commitment, mental toughness, and the responsibility of leaders to hold the wine. Not just to engage in the business of war fighting, but to forge warriors ready to close with

the destroyer nation's adversaries at any time and the ground. Follow the Jedberg podcast and dream brave foundation on social media. Listen on your favorite podcast platform. Read our website and watch the full video version on YouTube as we show you why America must continue to lead from the front. Welcome to Jedberg podcast and thanks for having us back on the Pentagon. Yeah, I like this. It's a bit of a reoccurring theme here. A little different this time

know because we got a legend with us, but it's good to have you back. We've been fortunate to be

all the community. There's so many ties and we were joking earlier that the first time we came

there was like 12 people in the room, the second time there was six, then there was three, and now we're down to one. So we're doing something right at again and set up where they're trusting our ability. Yeah, go like, yeah, space. But there's so many things that are happening right now in the army. We're seeing so much of the messaging coming out about transformation, modernization,

“investing in the next generation of soldiers. SMA, we spent a long time. It's been now, I think,”

like a year and a half, but you're still a YouTube sensation on the Jedberg podcast. But we spent a long time talking about war fighting and what does war fighting mean? Why does the army have to be built of war fighters? And now we're going to talk about what does it mean to be a warrior? And as you mentioned, we've brought one of the army's historic Hall of Fame warriors here to sit with us in Sergeant Major Rick Merritt. I'll go through it quickly. Go for it. And, you know, don't blush. But 25 years

in 75th Ranger Regiment, 36 years in the army, 14th Regimental Sergeant Major, the 75th multiple tours would we have like 40 tours to our Racken afghanistan. I've done by months, close tours to different for everybody. 61 in combat. 61 in combat. So division, command Sergeant Major for the 10th Mountain Division. So it was like to live up in the snow up there, distinguished member of the 75th Ranger Regiment and the warrior legends Hall of Fame as well,

up at 10th Mountain Division and the army Ranger Hall of Fame and an honorary Sergeant Major with army in October 2025. And here's the 75th Ranger Regiment Association president. So thank you, Sergeant Major for your service. Thanks for joining us today. And when I told people we were coming here to sit down with you, they said, "Oh, there you go. That's the conversation we got to have." Well, I'll just start off by laying my thoughts of this here. And that is Sergeant Major,

we serve some in combat together under the higher command on that there. And I will say nothing ruins a good war story. Like an eye witness. It's true. That's true. But for this topic, there was no doubt in my mind. In my fact, I'll just, I'll just mess up when I called Rick and said, "Hey, we want you to be the next honorary Sergeant Major in the army." First off, he didn't he downplayed it because he's like, "Are you sure? Like, there's nobody else."

Because if you're not, if you don't know Rick, the last thing he wants to do is talk about himself,

it's never about himself, which is a trait I think of a warrior. We'll talk about that a little bit

“more today. But with this topic, this was the right person to bring on, because you have to have”

credibility in this profession to really, I think, dive deep in this subject. Well, let's start there. We'll start with you, Sergeant Major. What's a warrior? I see a warrior to me is the reason why we do it. There's been so much conversations and here different ways of warrior versus warfighter. In some ways, to me, they're hand in hand. But the warrior can be an everyday warrior. You could be a warrior at any job you do. You could be a warrior fighting sickness on there. But to be a warrior

talk about the warrior, we're looking at our ethics and our ethos and why we're the warrior, why we

won't quit while we'll fight harder. What it means for our values and morals has been a grain with us before we ever joined a military and strengthened to outer military careers and for myself, even to give back the continues on that after retirement. As I took off the uniform, but my warrior attitude and values didn't change with that. So truly, I think what makes the warrior is a more of that. Now, the functional part of it, I see that's expertise. That's where the warfighter

comes in. Because all that do in teamwork, where I see a warrior, we think of the Genghis Khan. We look back at folks like Showgun, Robert Rogers, all to the history on that. And to really I see an adaptive warrior, adaptive warfighter in today's complex world, to be able to think on your feet,

make the right decision the first time. Make a difference with your presence. Where you are,

you make a difference. Whether that's at the breach, at the foothold, where it could be. So

“make a difference with your presence. Otherwise, why are you there? And that's what warriors do so well”

on that, to make that difference because they were there. So you did deep conversations and talk forever on that. But all that talking, really the warrior, it happens at a split second of a firefight when that first round is fired. Which takes years to get you to that point. SMM, when we think about this concept of warrior and that how it plays into the concept of a warfighter. From your position leading the army and being the personnel manager, you're in charge of training, you're running

what it looks like to define and become a warrior of what the U.S. Army, the Department of War, what this country needs for the next battlefield, which we could argue, and we've talked about we're in now. What is that warrior? What does that warrior look like to you? Yeah, so the way, again, in the complex, it's a complex conversation, right? It goes back. Jeez, thousands of years. I mean, I don't know if it's not the longest-standing profession, but the professional arms has got to be

right close to the top. And you know, we're in the warfighting business and we're war fighters, but

“a warrior is a way of life. That's how I kind of separate them to be honest with you because he's”

spot on. I mean, Rick is spot on. Like, it's a mindset that's associated with not so much what you do more and how you do it and the dedication and the selflessness and the sacrifice. The things that people don't understand why in the world, you go that extra mile. So that's kind of how I separate it. Now, when you associate with the fight we have today right now, and I spot on, it's today. It's not a tomorrow fight. It's the fight we have today. You can't lose that

because you're going to have all this technology. Technology is not going to make up for that. You know how I feel about this. But if you have that as your foundation, and I think that's key in leaders, and we'll maybe talk a little bit about that here. What's the difference between a senior non-commissioned officer that's gone past 20 years? Oh, that's a warrior because they should have retired already. And so now you add all that technology.

Now you add all that generative AI in all these fancy things. Wow. You talk about

“leafality that we haven't seen in the history of war fighting. So that's why I get excited about”

the you start with the basics, the who you are, why you do what you do, and then you talent manage people that are extra committed at the senior levels, which is why I say it's a way of life. What are the traits? And you're talking a lot about bringing somebody in or we'll talk about compliance to commit me to here in a second. But you're talking about bringing somebody in when we look at and you're both experts in recruitment, assessment, and development.

Because at the end of the day, that's what we got to do with all of our recruits whether are committed to the army or they're going to arrange a regiment or they're going to special forces regiment. We're going to recruit them. We're going to assess them and we're going to select. So when we think about, I need a warrior. At the most foundational level, we're in the business of developing soldiers first. What are the traits that we're looking for in a warrior? Go for it, Rick.

I look at those traits. So in a warrior is one that is dedicated, disciplined, willing to go

extra mile. Well, bite for those who's left and right. Never quit. We get put all those words

in creeds. And I have a multitude of creeds. I'm soldiers Creed. The NCO Creed to my Ranger Creed. And if you look at them better than those creeds to those words in there, that's more than being taught. The C said it's going to be a way of life and ingrained in you to where not only do you believe it at first because it's a rules that you have to do. Then the commitment coming in when you understand why and you become that reason and use it in your own words and

every man in the regiment one time did a 600 questions, a questionnaires we were starting and a brass program that we have now for eight weeks into get the commonality across that

“for us to be able to put those in words and know for a recruit. What are we looking for in there?”

And to go across to American find in SMA, we're talking earlier. I was 23 years old been a pair of making a firefighter played a lot of sports growing up with the families most of them went into the NCAA when me being a low silhouette thought maybe the army was a better profession. You know, it was kind of had villain the wave on with seven foot cup corporate hearts as talking to him and he's like hey, the NFL wants me. I'm like, oh, for the Pittsburgh sealer.

Sir, look at you. Yeah, you've already got two cup of hearts. Who's going to be going to shoot

when you come over that hill? You first? Well, net. Do your family a favor and go in the NFL?

I didn't know he would make it like it did. Then I went back and said, and if you make it, don't tell a mirror, he wrote one of the great on you telling the heroes overseas, killing bad guys. And years later, he did that. But where we find those guys, we find them in American and backyards and cities across there. So look for those traits in that. But the best recruiters we have is our service members, our veterans, whether they did three

years or 30 years. And the way we treat them when they come in, even more importantly, I see is the way that we treat them we get out. They did a big ceremony for me when I retired. I'm like, why can I do a ceremony for the young man that did four years and was a team leader and thought hard and two par parts? As he's going out is that is our greatest recruiters across America and all levels there is our veterans and we use them across that. Man, there's a lot

there Rick. But I will tell you, there's two types of folks that you're assessing, if you will, right? There's folks that have been doing it for a while, right? And then there's your officer's street folks, right? And the range of regiment does this well in both categories. You get your option 40 folks. And then you've got your folks that are already in the military that

are going to come and be assessed either as an NCO or an officer for a first tour or

a second tour. And we do it in SF also, right? off the street. When you're looking for that young new recruit, I would say you're looking for pieces of key attributes that you can build on. If you're looking for a completed human being that has everything already figured out, you're not going to find that recruit, right? And so the science in the art to it is how much is enough of these

“key attributes I see to take a risk on you and bring you in and start developing the rest of that, right?”

If you compromise on any, you know, the oxyx would tell you there's a few things you don't compromise on, you want any moral person in your formation then compromise on that. No, you wouldn't do that, right? But if you got somebody that's won't quit, but maybe isn't a genius with an IQ, but has enough of the intelligence, I can work with that. I might even turn that into a phenomenal

warrior, right? Now, if you're starting first class merit and you're coming back into the

range of regimen, I'm going to assess you differently, because now I'm expecting more out of you. And so there's different ways to do it. And there is science to it, but I do appreciate, I'll say his name Ryan. He's retired, opsike for almost 30 years in the soft community, operations psychologist. He would tell you there's still art because we're still human beings. And that 23-year-old Rick Merritt, 22-year-old Mike Weimer, I had a lot of reps and sets in life

that are hard to evaluate until you get me in the formation and start testing me. You said that being a warrior is a way of life. One of the concepts that we've taught to all of our conversations is about compliance to commitment. This idea that you come into the army and you're immediately indoctrinated and you're holding your bag over your head because they told you too. And they're going to yell at you some more unless you do and you extend your arms.

And then eventually you hold the bag over your head because it's the right thing to do. And that's what you know. How does the concept of create when you're a soldier and you're making this transition from compliance to commitment and being a warrior becomes your foundation, but comes your way of life over time. How does that create the warrior that we need in the you and so yeah.

“I think it's a little different for everybody because each one of us is on our own journey.”

And I know we're getting hurry to try to how do we replicate this and so we can scale it and we're infatuated with all that and we're going to collect all this data. There's just some things about human beings that are going to be done on an individual's basic timeline in life. Everybody's chapters are going to close and open a new one in different seasons in their life. And so I think you can't lose that, right? Genitive AI is not going to

in as a new trooper, the sooner you take the time to explain the why to them, will they move from compliant to committed a lot faster? My generation, I held the bag over my head. I used to say, just shut up in color, be seen don't be heard. I wanted to be in the army. I wanted to be a soldier because my father was in the army and so I didn't need the why. Well, that faded as I became an NCO and I started to want to know the why.

We do a much better job these days starting out from literally the time you take your

“oath for the first time. You know I'm passionate about oath. That's why it's in the blue book.”

What does that oath mean? Who am I swearing, you know, to what am I swearing and oath for? What does that all about? All the way to when you get to your first duty station and you're being asked to do some hard, uncomfortable things, lethal eagle. You go to the field for 40 days with the hundred and first right now at four Campbell. Sounds normal to us because we grew up in that. It's not normal for this generation. Well, if you're compliant,

that's a hard thing to understand why you're doing that. But if you're committed, you're like, we're out of that. Let's build the training put, build some objectives. Let's get after this. So I will tell you the goal for us when we develop an NCOs from what happens inside the company cough to what happens at PME is to get troopers to understand what it means to be part of this profession and the responsibility have as an on-commission officer core and then you

quickly move to that committed space. Would you agree with it? I agree. And I can say in the

compliance to where it comes to commitment. For me, it was powerful when I realized that I

crossed that threshold. Starting out coming in 23 years old, I've been a pair of my making a firefighter come from a military family. My baby brothers were already in officer and I was catching up with them. Came in the Army for two years to serve and then go back to my civil service job. But after one year, I'm like, they're paying me to do this. And I'm here to visit for 35 more. But I look where I started in Germany and under compliance, we had a

SKT test. My roommate and I, we got a hundred on it. Not because we were wanting to make sure that we were well trained for unit and the fight against the Russians there and the Cold War, but that was more for our personal values and morals and how we were brought up on that. EIB, as a private past, every event, I came in under two hours on the PT test or excuse me to row March. And it was more under again for the same reason competitive on that dare. But then, for there,

starting the third range of it, I go to the range of it. And now I'm in a unit where that was the norm across that. So what I was doing before under commitment, I'm seeing like hey, this unit strives more on that dare and then it crossed over where it became a commitment into that.

And that was powerful to see it then understood the big picture of what that meant to do that.

And it was to make sure that for the unit and the mission. And I'd call today, could you keep

“drawing on to that? Is I talk a lot across the army on combat readiness as a way of life?”

It's an everything you do. Any combat that we succeed on started long before we ever showed up in combat. I say, for many of us, it started long before we were that uniform. I often see folks and say, you are soldier, you're a ranger. Your mom could have told you that when you were 13 years old. It wasn't till a cadre told you that. To realize that and see it is powerful. And then as we have seen, the leaders convey that. And the tools we use to get the

soldiers to see that and take that on their own as well. And like you said, we talked about a third level that could be a bit of staying in 36 years. Now I mean, I would have done 50 if they allowed me to. But although I took uniform off my oath didn't go away on that dare. And we'll need to get back on that. For one reason, I think I stayed committed to that because I couldn't change who I am. On that, we say some soldiers struggle after retirement or maybe ETS of going out to the

“civilian world on that. I think because maybe they're trying to change who they are instead of”

be that warrior and that warrior spirit and then use it to be successful for whatever you want to be in whatever that next thing is. And I want to try to enhance and that warrior spirit on that for my across America and all small towns, big cities across there, doctors, lawyers, judges, teachers, coaches, politicians across to make America great through veterans and using that warrior spirit

is very powerful. That's good. That's good. I want to ask about culture because some of what you're

talking about is culture. Because the culture becomes ingrained in you. I run FR6, security integration company. We do CCTV access control, fire alarm, security consultancy.

And you try to do the movie. I'm not taking it. Do the lab. Carlos is going to call me on.

“I'm not sick. I'm not taking it. I've met him. We've got to have him on. He's good dude.”

But we've got a few other folks who are absolutely high performers coming from their various backgrounds. And we recently brought back a guy that out a couple of years ago out of 10th group, when it did something else, most of those close to his house. And then recently came back a couple weeks ago. He was talking to me yesterday and he said, "You know what, man, I feel more alive than I have in the last two years." It's a real thing that I was with you before. I feel like I'm back

on a team again. And yesterday, I'm not going to lie with an absolute disaster, disaster of a day.

Like everything that could have gone wrong, starting from 6 a.m. went wrong until I include in the

four-hour delay I had here flying from New York or could have driven. But every single thing, but I went to bed last night and was like, "This was a good day." Because the guys on my team

“know that they're in the right spot with the right people with the right culture. When we talk about”

being a warrior, there's an evolution of the culture. Yeah, that's not to happen. We talked about culture before. We've seen across the Department of War. We've seen the chief. We've seen the Secretary talk a lot about the evolution of culture. You've spoken intermittently about culture. How does the idea of becoming warriors from the foundational level through senior leadership change the culture of the army? Yeah, I mean, you know, Rick alluded to it a little bit,

the compliant to the committed and then what's that next thing? Because you refuse to not be part of that culture. Regardless of uniform on our uniform off, doesn't matter. But doesn't matter. I've started to talk about its compliance commitment to consecration. The 35 year, the 30 plus year, the teammates that we have that frankly are fiscally responsible for continuing to do this is non-commissioned officers because we're in high demand in the civilian community right

now. Because of all the reps and sets in the level of responsibility, non-commission officers have evolved to after 250 years, right? We didn't start this way. I mean, you can look back at 65 and 75 and 26. And what sergeant major senior sergeant majors do today with 30 years of service and it's the envy of the world to be honest with you and part of what makes our army so stink and special.

“But what is that? That is different. Culture is a big part of that. And that's why I've started to say,”

it's almost like you're consecrated into this culture that I got to find when I retire. I have to find it. Trust me, my wife knows I have to find it and it won't be defined by a paycheck. She would be mad at me if I didn't say the paycheck's not going to matter, but it's not going to be defined by that. I will absolutely less money for the right culture. The thing I like about it and I know Rick said he would have done 50. You know why? Because he became the keeper of the culture

as a senior non-commissioned officer because he was consecrated by it and he would accept nothing else, but the highest standard of culture, right? It's not perfect, but just driving for that excellence that we've talked about in the past. But I think that's the journey that so many sergeant majors that go 30 years and beyond, they don't think about it that way. That's why I wanted to talk about it a little bit, but it's actually who we become. I'd like to segue into that culture.

Could we hear a lot of culture, culture, culture, and there can be a bad culture and we've seen some of them before, but to me I see what makes that culture that unit culture on that there and there is really character and character development. I feel you cannot talk about culture without character development. And if you look at a unit who strives more on the individual character building that not only by holding their self accountable in their decisions,

their actions and the way they think holding their self accountable and then building that culture into their men and women on that there have been greatly that character and build on that strong character because it takes strong individual character to make unit culture. I've got to go hand in hand and especially to have the culture that we need for the military

on that and powerful on that to do just that and with that ingrained and making a warrior on that

so they know how to think and not to think. That's probably the difference we saw over the decades and centuries of our military with it non-commissional sir on how to think and then you look an adaptive war fighter and a warrior on that adapted to be able to get it right the first time and a quick moment on that there and that's instinctively but that's take a lot of repetition and put in a self in situations in the character building on that to make that happen so not only

thing our army has ever done for our nation over 250 years we talked pretty revolutionary

“and into there is a culture that we bring out and we still need that today across our nation”

on there. Yeah even though you're trying to keep it in your company you're still your circles touch other circles and it becomes contagious it really does and I see evidence of that in the regiment like quality industry factory the general officers in positions the sergeant majors in positions the character they learned there and taking it out from the Pentagon and toward officers cores and other formations on that to bring that into there and when faced with the challenge

green berets adapt overcome and keep moving forward now's your chance to stand with them join the 1952 society with a monthly gift of just nineteen dollars and fifty two cents to provide

critical medical devices for wounded ill and injured green berets your support fuels their recovery

helping them return to duty or continue serving their communities a green berets mission never stops neither show support join the 1952 society today and stand with those who stand for us it's the essence of the Abrams charter it really is I mean having read it numerous times every version of it to include I don't know maybe an updated version in the future but it's woven in between every one of the lines about the original Abrams charter is that culture

right there and it's in the back of the day we call it war fighters and leaders of character west point it's leaders of character I mean it is beat into the use of grads when they commission they know they can have a conversation about that without even thinking twice right that wasn't my ROTC experience when I was a cadet for a little while at the Ohio State I'm not saying we didn't discuss it but the ROTC cadet part was part time

“it's not in places like that because if the culture of the character is so important to”

being committed to the culture so you're spot on right you both brought up the role of the NCO the story I told you about my company yesterday I'll have you know I'm the only former officer in my company and that company came from a retired E9 you're pretty successful right now we're very successful don't we have that file okay we've all sfNCOs and one guy thinks he knows what he's talking about but knows the least that's me

so but I want to ask you about the role of the officer and the role of the NCO in the development of number one culture and number two that warrior mindset because they are different I'll tell you look where I've seen that happen within our army and my time frame as well is looking at what we know today is doctrine as mission command we would have a mission command for years we just didn't have a name for it probably one of my commanders that most for it

that saw their polycamera just recently retired forestar was using the mission command because he knew that we knew his commanders intent and two levels up and then to trust it given me the tools of discipline to follow his mission command on there and my ways to do it

across there was powerful on that I see levels on that so I looked at the officers that we

out the centuries had the NCO court that's probably makes a difference in the world is where our NCO court is compared to other countries and I look a lot of time with Korea NCO court it's 75 years old their light years compared to where we were at 75 years in that there but of course they've had us coachamentering as well on that but that culture didn't change overnight on that it's got to be an investment but I see the officers hold we NCO's accountable and then give us the tools

and we earned their trust to carry on and the more that they trust us and we're able to do that it really expands beyond that so the commission officer definitely has a big role in that by I say hoarding us accountable to do that yeah I'm passionate about this topic we can do a whole podcast on this one but the command team relationship if you will it's key right the commander here she has all that authority like they are the commander I used to remind young troop commanders

you're the commander you're also the newest person in this troop the least experienced do not

“let anybody walk all over you you were hired for a reason you've made it now you have to hold”

your guns use your gut and be a commander and holy cow if I worked for some phenomenal commander some of them you know Rick knows them also but that was because they were the commander and they figured out how to empower those NCO's hold us accountable because sometimes my climate could ask some crazy ideas about how to solve some problems right but I got hired to be a problem

but I'm a firm believer that the non commission officers to keep for the culture and I'm passionate

“about this because I've spent almost 30 years inside a soft culture 20 years inside a very small”

organization that officers come and go but the NCO is stays and so when there's a culture issue I did not blame the officer we looked in the mirror it was very hard on ourselves and that's where I came to appreciate the importance of not compromising on talent management of senior non commission officers because one leadership change and compromise on that back to character really we didn't talk about that I'm so glad you brought that up and it can affect the entire culture and I saw

that in a very closed organization and very few things change in those clothes it's also controlled right and very change and so then you extrapolate that to the whole army that you know I'm serving in now and we're finished his career with and you know we talk about cohesive teams yet we PCS so often and we only get 15 months as commanders or command sergeant majors and so that's one of the reasons why we've been working on stabilizing people and letting them stay in places longer

so because once your cohesive culture tends to itself like we'll hold each other accountable because we have a relationship but when we're moving people around all the time it's whopping leaders in and out all the time we don't actually have the relationship to hold each other

accountable so culture doesn't always tend to itself and so I mean this one there's so much written

on this one and I appreciate academics but I appreciate folks that have actually lived it tended to it good and bad when it comes to who should you study in the topic of culture well becomes transactional gosh relationships become transactional and when relationships become transactional whether you're in the military or your in business or even your family agree then it's very difficult to really get things done because people want to do things with people they like we talk about this all the

“time and my company you have to be a person that has a personal relationship with someone else”

companies don't give work yeah to people they don't know yeah by default companies they don't and people don't hold others accountable that they don't have a personal relationship and I'll share a aid to do it with that exactly there as we were discussing earlier and I feel under so many whamers time here publicist strategic change they made it greatly affected combat readiness on the peninsula of Korea as I had one year assignments there and the turnover of

12 yeah 10 to 12 percent every month the leader and led didn't know each other and so tough very tough

and I came from a unit where you could stay as long as you were performing and needed you were there on that and that was tough on us I look back and poking the former ranger buddy mind who was a pretty high command in the army of uh you want to be known as a guy who at law science cream war keep

“up in one year assignments I think that was our biggest challenge in Vietnam with a leader and led”

didn't know each other and we talked about that character development to make unit culture and the trust and how that builds there was so much turnover every month I don't think they ever had the opportunity to do that you know that ask him sir with your time in combat in Afghanistan rock how would you like to be having your units then 12 percent turnover every month from company

commander first start to start so on that very powerful now that you see they stopped at yeah

and now with the longer assignments like that in resty army of course conditions change is not your mom and dad's career anymore but that was my number one challenge to combat readiness there and probably the greatest improvement in my lifetime since armistice started to help combat readiness on that peninsula so pull that thread a little bit we go back to where we started with compliance to commitment imagine if you have leaders that aren't actually even committed and so

now they don't even understand that hey we don't the choice it's going to be disruptive I got to pull you out early got a PCSG because I need you in Korea and so now I show up in Korea and I'm a compliant leader I'm also responsible for the culture I'm also responsible to build real relationships hold people accountable be the standard and force the standard you know demonstrate disciplines so you can see how you go back to if people don't understand the why what it

means to be part of this profession you took an oath you are different and they're not committed to the mission which by the way this profession is not the paved path this profession we hand you a machete and we say take that path and you're like what path I don't see the path there and you're like that's right because in this profession you're going to cut your own path we're going to assist you

this profession right this is not an easy profession and I don't think we talk about that enough either sometimes everything in society now is about how to make life easier now like grit comes through hardship grit comes through putting in the time you go back to what are we looking for in young ricks and young mics we're looking for people that kind of embrace the hard stuff that's a

little bit different in a million person army you know from cyber warriors to you know mechanics

to crew chiefs to cooks to the whole thing that's not a one size fits all but there's some

“key specialties in our army to where that that's got to be their story and and then you come to”

love it like I don't know about you then you do have some legendary stories but I had to watch myself because if it wasn't hard enough it didn't suck enough and I didn't feel like we were trained and hard enough right and there is a point of diminishing results right so you got a balanced set stuff out but man you create that kind of a culture within with people that have committed to that oh man give me whatever technology you want because now I'm going to be unstoppable

well I mean at the end of the day the army is a people business and this is a people business and we can talk as you mentioned you talk about the technology all day long we have the greatest technology in the world we can do I mean we won't talk about it in any sort of detail here because of where we are but look at the operation in Venezuela at the end of the day we all take technology and where we started you guys got to go on the ground and that's as a human

act was a centric that was people people people did that people controlled the technology get from the space to the ground and people had to put boots on the ground highly trained warriors who were proficient in their craft who have spent decades working together that wasn't a group that just got thrown together at the last minute and said hey tomorrow you're going to go out

there you go do something amazing that is decades of experience and trust to be able to get

something like that done but to your point SMA about the whole army that took a whole army to be able to do that because you can't it's not just the guys it's the on the ground it's not just the helicopters it's not just the air force the whole joint force that is just a whole

“giant military yep that puts people on the x to do something like that and that's what this”

nation's capable of when we have the resolve and we have the people who are willing to do it that's a little bit when Rick was talking about like it's bigger than just the army it's there's part of the nation there was in your agency I mean that was a whole government effort to be successful in that you know all echelons all that care from the IT world to my intel folks all across that little logisticians joint world I had CB reserve company on there and then

I look and see what they did for a day job I build hotels I build cities yeah yeah and you can make me a joker every night yeah on there I mean I'm already my large higher plants you're like what

you do what in your day job pretty amazing I'm down the slayer know my guardsman he's like well

I'm the city a mayor I'm the police chief back in this county and like okay you can be my Commodant of the ampere on that seeing that talent across that I'm looking at telecopter pilots like what do you do in your daytime I'm a heart surgeon what are you doing flying this my do for fun just seeing that talent management this thing because the other piece that we do a lot and yes so your talent management came from headquarters HRC across that there's a

really the NCO course there's so much more involved in talent management that's we're moving people in uh two places up what you see them doing next I look at my range of buddies starting making an order and why he's in this office it's not from what he said doing up in a gun is probably for the next job but he will do is see in the talent management across that as well when you look at the leadership and you've both served at all echelons of leadership now both

whether that being in command or even at the tactical level and you're soldiered at a team leader

“to squad leader and and up how important is it right now for our leaders and I think I'll ask”

primarily about our tactical and operational level leaders probably about that the company and feel great officers to understand the magnitude of their job every day leading soldiers and developing the soldiers and then the NCO and the officers leadership there yeah unfortunately little bit of truth it's not it's not impressive in our history but we're struggling a little bit in that space there's amazing opportunities outside the military also and so there's a bit of attention

and so we have a group of leaders that's at that phase of their career where many of them do decide to get out right and remember there's no time limit on honorable service so that's important

raise your hand you served your country or better for it already but there's attention there and what we're finding is those leaders they're super committed and they want to be company commanders for two years they want to be a squad leader for the full time they want to be the Patoon Sarm for the full time and so what we're trying to do is we're trying to like balance ourselves out as an army so that we can allow them to not get pulled out of those the jobs that

are the most impactful I mean as a company commander like what is better than being a company

commander what is better me in the first sergeant for a badass company commander I can't think of anything

but we're only allowing company commanders twelve months in command right now because then they got to go straight to a staff job they didn't come into one do all those staff jobs they command because the gold medal is company command right and so we've got to figure that out it's a big initiative for the army right now because are we losing some talent for that I don't say they're not committed they're so committed they want that full experience is a company commander same

with PLs we're we're cutting PL times we've got lieutenant's working in three shops waiting for a PL time right and so we've got to fix this balance it's a big army so it's not an overnight problem but I don't think it's a commitment problem they don't understand and feel the weight I call it leadership of consequence right there's leadership we're all responsible for in this profession there's tremendous consequence if you don't feel that weight and you're not going that

“extra mile that's that committed versus just being compliant and then you just got to remember”

and Rick I know I'll groom the on this there's just some people that need to do their minimum time and serve honorably and then it's time to do something different there's no wrongness reaching your potential nothing on that there and some people along the side I'm serving my country and going to take that away from me as a veteran and move on where others stay career revenue but I look to see again how well we had brought that person in and the oath and raising the

right hand and how we take a commitment to that and wow he and I I had every time I serve money but the specialist or team leader who ETS we did not have an award or a ceremony for him per say he'd get out on that beginning back and seeing that those levels of commanders and where they are in that there see I look back historically now that I'm able to look more and see after long periods of combat operations in our country's history what we transitioned in peace

“time if you want to call after that and it's never really never a time hundred percent peace”

but see transitions we've made each time after that we downsized and it's seen that it's going

up and down over that's always been the pattern. I look at my range of them and there was times

where we didn't exist after major conflicts took a lot of manpower and money's and downsize and then come back up until 74 with you kept in the sense so I look and see after the major global on terrorism then I worry about the the things that we made have we talked about missing command we developed that in combat on our targeting cycle and kept that going through trust and working with our team mate sister services have we been doing miss a command in in the 1993

I don't believe we would have a blockhawk down because I would have been out on the vehicles of a sitting out pinned in ocean on there believe we would have got been ladden probably at Torabora on that and we developed that over twenty years of combat that now there was a time where for our joint special operations task force to defeat convincing unit had a TI outside their gate we wouldn't tell them if we weren't hitting it those days are going thank

I we built that now I worry what would keep me up a night that builds up one brick at a time and we build those walls again and lose like this with all his vast combat experience of background seized up and they're going to do a good job that try to keep that from happening so we got to five ways to exercise those leaders still when they're not in known combat on that and also see where training management where we were turn and burn and have a surges so much

that at my echelons of ops the leaders like hey company commander first hard battoons rep to

we got this for you we're doing all that we'll set it all up training management you just go out and execute execute as we lost some of those skills now their kernels they may start made use of be like I haven't been doing 20 management because you were doing it for me

“and seeing now that we got to catch up on that so Frank some of that I think to maybe to”

for the listener out there that hey I just want to know like I don't necessarily believe in the two echelons down thing and I know me the doctrine guy would everybody knows I'm not the doctrine matters though there's capstone doctrine that absolutely matters and then there's some other doctrine that it better keep up with the changing character or war or you're going to

sets and experience that Rick's talking about were obligated to go down to that level that you

referenced and pass on all of that not in a belittling way but as a coach like we're obligated like shame on me my legacy should be garbage if I'm not passing on everything I pass why I'm sitting here with you frankly because this is not my favorite thing to do it's our job where we should be held accountable to do that and in that way when we go back to 1998 when we had one or two people in the company in a 37 at Fort Bragg that had a mustard stain from Panama and maybe an old

timer from Grenada and I think the group sorry major at that time still had some Vietnam I don't remember him coming down at the O6 level and sewing that into us if you will yet he was the one

“that had reps and sets from Vietnam and so that's our generation's role he still does it that's why”

I asked him to be on this podcast where obligated to do that I was fortunate to have one leader like that he just mentioned the guy named Don Perty the Vietnam Ranger well known yeah with a six man Ranger team fight in Valers the came back in the army or then was in the Iranian rescue tip with what they unit up a bragg and then into the first for any battalion and as my sergeant major in third grade battalion able to share that and still he's given back today I got him coming talking

on a team leader course and LPD with officers and CEOs on that relationship there as they're out there across that he talked about two levels down and they me smile and seeing a combat we didn't talk about this beforehand as I said it with our presence a bit of friction point and two levels down

I've always seen that okay if a battalion's out there and no one else is out there with them yes

if the battoon leader gets killed the two sergeants got a step up squally their steps up to be the battoon sergeant vice versa but anytime that we have other senior leaders out there it's not going to levels down if he arrives on that there it's like make a difference with your presence and in that case there if you're not going to jump in there and make a difference with it why even be there on it so there's a time in a place that you know where two levels down there's going to be like

the cost three levels up getting a fight right there don't be a pain in the ass be value added troop if folks here you're coming to a company live fire range and they're like oh god there's a problem in your leadership they should be going holy crap sergeant merits coming down to our company live fire range when see get in here hey can we get

“everybody together to kind of you know I mean there's a difference in there you need to be”

figuring out how you're perceived or you're not coaching like you think you are you know even in combat I look can see that it's also training combat is training we do after action reviews on it as well and for me to be the eyes and ears from my commander he called me to come out of common sense I couldn't do that on a sitting behind a computer I couldn't do that sitting at the jock I had to do my work there but to be out with the men at the point of fighting

and how can I do that not be in a way I found the best way to do that was grab something heavy to carry and uh you know and be there and be there you know paraclyce reminds us and I got a really neat print a good buddy of mine gave me it's in my office you know our legacy's not and what we leave and in you know car stone mountains right it's it's actually what we so into

“the people were responsible for I believe that he knows it that's why you gave that to me”

that's a big deal but you have to be intentional with that you're not doing all this so you can come on the Jedberg podcast and talk like what are you doing with everything you've learned in 35 years or 33 years and you should feel obligated to give that back we're in the human business and we're in the business of war fighting and it takes warriors to war fight and our job as soldiers of all levels is to fight and win our nation's wars

and that's something that we've done in this country for a very long time that's something that will continue to do and we'll continue to support that mission and I know that with your leadership and your guidance because you both have been instrumental in the lives of generations of soldiers at every level and many of those who you know sit in echelons above us upstairs today all a debt of gratitude for all your work and everything that you've done

it will continue to do so thank you for taking the time to sit down with me share this we need warriors and we're not going to stop making them and I know you're not either so thank you yeah it's an honor to be here and you know just remind everybody out there

hey this is a journey not a destination and so you don't check up on some boxes and you finally

make it like this is a way of life honor to be here very humbled to have me uh some of your

ridins is a way of life and I get to get great discussion about that from those warriors but also

warriors to be still out there and for what those warriors do in America afterwards our nation needs

“them and I think that's been the strength of our nation of of over 250 years of warriors”

the leading is so net and just whether it was two years at 30 said you used a word legend

and I see a legend is nothing but a man who a woman it's a spent their life surrounding themselves with people better than them and by the likes of it I'm still doing that today

so honored to be here thanks back

“American jet birds went on to form the foundation of the United States special forces”

in the special activities director of the Central Intelligence Agency thanks for listening to the Jedberg podcast on the official program of the Green Breit Foundation I'm your creator and host friend Richard to end this next week for a new episode on Apple

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another long and short form content if you like what you heard give us a like and leave your review follow the Jedberg podcast and the Green Breit Foundation on linked in Instagram Facebook extra threats send your comments and inquiries to friend at Jedberg podcast.com as former members of special operations forces the Jedberg media channel and the Green Breit Foundation remain committed to supporting all generations of U.S. Army special forces and their families

thanks for joining us on this episode how you prepared today determined success tomorrow you