Ep. 841: Theodore Roosevelt on Love, Ladies, and Conservation

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All right, man, we're joined by Edo Keith, who's got new book The Loves of Teddy Roosevelt. We're going to get into Teddy as a ladies man and a mama's boy. Okay, that would have been a much better subtitler.

Ladies man, mama's boy. Instant best seller. No, the loves of the Theodore Roosevelt, the women who created president. And so everybody knows Theodore Roosevelt

as the swash buckling adventurer. Which is a little weird, like, you know, he went over hunting, hunted in Africa, hunted across the West, became a rancher, wrote a book about ranching. Like, people know him as this sort of like,

“the most macho of presidents, the manly manness of presidents, right?”

You know, you think of like, you think of like, president Trump growing up, you know, he's got like gold stuff everywhere. And this guy was kind of comfortable in a cab in that times. But what you lose sight of is a couple things you lose sight of with Roosevelt. One extraordinarily wealthy.

Like, in today's world, him as an outdoorsman would be like a rich kid. They'd like goes to boarding school and gets into Knowles. It gets real in like Knowles and like spends his summers in Alaska. Yep. Do you know what I mean? That's like the contempt and then, you know,

eventually, he's like a fishing guide or something. But he didn't really actually have to like redneck stuff. Yeah, he doesn't depend on the guiding income. Yeah, it's just a lifestyle. Yeah, and like that would have been Roosevelt.

But he did it so well. And because of his conservation record, he's sort of held as this like rugged individualist. But he has this very confusing background. And like one of the things that we're going to talk about is this is a guy not shaped by grizzled old hunting and fishing uncles that live out in a shack somewhere.

He's like shaped by women and his life and like huge impact for relationships with his mother.

“So we're going to dive into that at O'Keef, Edward O'Keef, if you want to be official.”

The first thing we're going to talk about, so as I do as intros we're going to talk about this.

So Edward O'Keef is the CEO of the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library Foundation. So we're going to kick off. I talked about that. This is a big deal over North Dakota. The Presidential Library. O'Keef recently previously spent two decades in broadcast and digital media at ABC News CNN, and now this thing which time he received a prime time Emmy Award for his work with Anthony Bourdain, to Webby Awards, the Edward R. Murrow Award.

What was that documentary about him? No, the movie. Good night. Good night. Good night. Good luck. Now George Clooney had a play. In a George Foster Peabody Award for ABC's coverage of 9/11. So all that said, if he bombs today on the show, it's been good until now. It's not that you didn't have the training in digital media. It's a pull off a podcast appearance. He should kill a former fellow at the Harvard

Kennedy School. He graduated with honors from Georgetown University. All from a, all out of North Dakota. North Dakota. It's right. Born and raised. Born and raised in North Dakota. Went on to do all that. So currently lives in New York was wife, daughter, and son. Tells about the library. Well, before we get into the book, let's talk about the library. Yeah, great. I mean, the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library opens on July 4th, 2026, 250th anniversary

and yeah, and so it's been a six year effort. We've raised almost a $400 million to get this baby

“constructed. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's 93 acres. It celebrates Theodore Roosevelt's”

conservation legacy. So looking, you know, he looked 100 years into the future. And conservation wasn't even a concept, right? I mean, it was an academic concept, but no politician had paid attention. When, when T. R. proposed his first conservation bill, the Speaker of the House literally said, there will not be one dime for scenery. That was, that was the attitude.

Right, seriously? Yeah, I never heard that. Cool. That was the response. Right. Because if scenery was like,

what are you talking about? Yeah, I feel like I ought to have heard that. That's 100% sure, this Speaker of the House, when he proposed his conservation meal said no way. I mean, I didn't, well, there wasn't a counter argument. It was just, that doesn't make any sense. What are you talking about? Yeah. So I mean, this, when he's talking about the creation of the U.S. Forest Service,

“when he's talking about national doubling the park's size, when he's putting 234 million acres”

of land into the public trust, he is not just ahead of his time. He's light years ahead of his time. Yeah. And so what we want to do at the T. R. Library is, you know, work with the local ranchers to graze the land on the 93 acres. We have a walkable roof where you can go 38 feet tall

and look out at the 65 million years of geologic history in the Badlands. And it's filled 400,000

native plants all from 40 miles around. We've been working on it for years, working with North Dakota State University to bring those plants back, bring the pollinators, bring the bees, bring the birds back to this area. You know, and so you want families to come and to hike and to bike and to horseback ride to the to the presidential library, you know, it's really a place where we want kids to drag their parents. I mean, to get out in nature and do it TR did, you know,

to to find nature as your classroom to be together as a family to, you know, celebrate the wondrous beauty of this national park, theater Roosevelt National Park, the only one named for a person let alone a president. No, everyone else's named for a holiday. How close was the library to the park? Stones throw. I mean, you can do that. So there's two, there's a west wing and now the only east wing you get that for. We thought that was going to be a clever ode, but the only one now, and it's

perfectly framed view of theater Roosevelt National Park. So you can literally, you can see the park from us and us from the park, 74,000 acres of backyard to go explore, and there's that board, so it borders the park. It does. Yeah. It'll, it's the largest private philanthropic project adjacent to a national park in history. The previous was St. Louis Arch. So it's a big effort, you know, it's North Dakota's not a huge state. We've got people from all over the nation all over the

world who've contributed because TR, I like to say he's like a rush act test. What what you see in him says more about you. Oh, then it doesn't about him. Yeah. Right. And so Republicans, Democrats, independents, people from all 50 states, 12 different countries, you know, we've, we've been really

blessed to have incredible support because of this person who's so universally beloved for different

reasons. That's the thing I've mentioned a bunch of times is, and given talks is there's not a politician today that wouldn't like to be favorably compared to Roosevelt. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, Josh Holly and Elizabeth Warren's favorite president. Find me one other thing they agree on. I mean, he's Barack Obama and Mitt Romney's favorite president. As impossible to find another thing that they agree on. Yeah. And so what we're doing

at the theater Roosevelt presidential libraries, we don't want to tell you which version of TR

“you should love. We want you to get out in nature with your family. Well, it's all people”

what versions of you can. But, you know, I'm the head of a non-profit. So I can't. Inside we have an immersive almost theatrical experience. I mean, every chapter of TR's life is crazier than the last. I mean, if you, if you wrote this story and submitted it to an editor, they'd reject it. Say, like, okay, all right. Okay. I mean, we can charge up San Juan Hill and we can have the adventure in the Elcorn. But really, we're going to go to Africa and the Amazon. I mean, these are both going

to happen in the same life. It's just ridiculous, right? So we want people, especially kids to immerse themselves in these stories. And when you're in Roosevelt's childhood, you want to reach inside a tree if you dare. You want to open a book and then think species of bird will fly out and join a wall of wonder. We want you to feel curious when you're when you're doing these things. When I feel

and be the change you want to see in the world. Because that's ultimately TR's message is that if you

“want to be a part of a successful democracy, you have to participate. You have to be in there.”

You have to fight for it. It's not just going to happen. And whether that's on the school board or running for a local election, you don't have to be president of the United States to make a difference. But you do have to get involved. And that's the ultimate message of the TR library. How did they find you to do this? Because you were a North Dakota guy? It was crazy how did you go for media to do in that?

I'm still trying to figure that one out. So I was 20 years in media as you mentioned. I worked at ABC News. I worked with Tony Bourdain at CNN. Sadly, after Tony died, the show ended and I went to Harvard to basically try to figure things out. And I thought, you know, I want to do the types of programs

that we did with Tony in streaming. You know, it was so powerful about working with Tony Bourdain

is that, you know, he could go to West Virginia and have a conversation with people who are totally and completely different than him or he could go to Mumbai and gather them around the table, have a meal in a conversation and bring people together. I had more people talk about what they learned about the world from watching that parts unknown than practically anything else I did in media. So I was really curious, like, how can we take that? You know, at the time in 2019,

Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Apple, etc. You know, they said, "We're not going to do any news. We're not going to do any live. We're not going to do any sports." I also said they're not going to do any podcasts and not going to do any, right? Not going to do short-form video, right? They're doing all of it now in 2026. But in 2019, it was like, nope, they're not going to do that.

“So that's what I was at Harvard to kind of explorers. When we built that video, we were never going to”

record. We were never going to do podcasts. Never. Never. Right? Uh-huh. For Boat. No video.

He said we talked over to each other. No. As strict. Yes. Well, you stuck to it. Stephen, that's what I admire about you. You make a proclamation as a you stick to it. So yeah, so I meet this group who's trying to raise money for the TR library. It's been an idea for a hundred years since his death and fits and starts in New York and North Dakota and other various places never succeeded. And, you know, I'm from North Dakota, I'm thinking about what to do

with the rest of my life and my professional career. And I was researching a book, which became the love of the earth. Okay. So I was born and chicken to the egg kind of deal. Yep. That's not their perfect analysis. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know if if your book came out of, so you were already getting into TR land. Absolutely. When you grow up in North Dakota, you're just into your land. TR is your hero. I mean, we, we got Roger Maris. We got, you know, we have Lawrence Welch. I mean,

come on. Yeah. We gotta give it out. Yes. We have Phil Jackson. We get Phil Jackson. Yeah. All right.

“There we go. We're trying to get him on the same. Remember that? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. He looks fished. Yeah.”

Hey, he looks up and up. I guess he's right here. Right here. Right here. Part of the time. I think if you're listening Phil. Yeah. This is he probably is. He's been following me pretty closely for 25 years. So this is probably a problem. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Well, that dude's doing it. I'm just letting you know. Now that ad has done it. Yeah. I feel Jackson will do it too. Oh, that would be great. Yeah. That would be. I hope that happens for you. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So I the book came

before the library. I mean, I was, I was in two very different mindsets. I'm in the 21st century, you know, looking at could we do shows like Tony Bourdain and parts unknown in the streaming universe. And I'm sneaking away to the Houghton library where a big part of theater Roosevelt's collection is held. And I'm exploring this story. And I, you know, I know the TR that you all know, right, from Mount Rushmore and this kind of chiseled, masculine, crazy, you know, adventurer.

And two things can be true at the same time. That exists. Right. That is him. But what I found remarkable is I'm looking at all these letters and every single decision that he ever makes. He's asking his sisters or his mom or his wives for advice. And I'm like, what? Where's nine? Like, I didn't, he's kind of the quintessential self-made man. I mean, the person who has no doubts who asks nobody else for their opinion on anything. Yeah. Not true as far to think like like Trump

being like, I don't know Melania. What a pretty land. All right. Yeah. I mean, who knows history will show us history of the title history. I don't know. Maybe Sunday they'll be a book. Maybe Greenland

origin is. I was thinking about what to do next. I'm researching the book on Theodore Roosevelt. And

I've got this these roots in North Dakota and North Dakota stepped up by offering a 50 million dollar

endowment contingent on the foundations ability to raise $100 million dollars by the end of 2020, which seemed like a daunting task. Mm-hmm. But it got a lot harder when the pandemic. Yeah. You know, so, but I was like, oh, look, they have no money, no architect, no land. What a great

“prospect. I think I'll dive in. My New York wife was really happy with me. She really thought this was”

a good career. Yeah. Yeah. She was. But you guys haven't, you guys haven't moved. Do you still have family North Dakota? I do. Yeah. My cousins, my brother, my uncles. Yeah. My parents are there most of the year. Yep. Yeah. So do you rent a place there now so you can be out for your work? I mean, since it's a national prime, we like to say it's a global project with the proud North Dakota roots. I mean, I'm everywhere all the time talking to people about the project and doing a lot of fundraising.

I mean, 400 million and five years, you got to talk to a lot of people about what you're doing, go and how you're doing it. And all this is going to, um, July 4, July 4th, 2026. So yes, so your question about, was that intentional? I don't think in 2019, we thought, oh, you know, what would be a great day to open this? But at some point, yeah, that was a huge time, you know, you know, you know,

“fundraising and construction. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. No, at some point, we said, hey,”

wait a second, you know, if we can be a part of America's 250th celebration, that will bring a, you know, national attention that we wouldn't otherwise get. But also think about this. So theater Roosevelt was president at the nation's 120 fifth birthday. He is exactly between the Declaration of Independence at zero and where we are now at 250. Oh, whoa. So once again, T R makes you think about where are we going to be at America 500? Yeah. Because right now midway points in the midway

point of that point in our distant future. No. And I'll tell my kids something similar, man. I'll tell them like, if the earth's cross solidified 4 billion years ago, and the sun's going to burn out in 4 billion years, like it's just the earth's in midlife crisis. This is halftime. This is just the, this is like the crazy midlife crisis. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And that kind of messed them up.

“They couldn't really conceptualize 4 billion years. So then there are some, I wonder if they're”

like expecting any second to go on Facebook and find a lot of people who believe the same. They're going to have some real good friends. Yeah. That's a good point, man. Like, yeah, he hit the halfway point. He's to halfway point the nuts. And think about this, right? Like,

I never thought about that. And so much is eerily similar to where we are now, right? The

economy is changing. You're going from an agrarian to an industrial society. Like, think about men's worth. I mean, the value of a man to a family was how much they could hunt, how much they could gather, how much they could farm, how much, and right, and that suddenly becomes, well, how much are you worth? How much are you making? Or you have an industrial job, right? You're moving from a rural area to an urban area. Cities are developing. So immigration, immigration was a huge issue in

TR's time, right? Then it was Irish and Germans and Italians and Chinese and, you know, it's at least to one of the largest crackdowns in immigration in US history. Right, right after

TR's time, where he's a very welcoming presence and then there's a great Italians. They'll never

integrate. They're always going to put family in front of nation. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, Irish need not apply, right? I mean, this was a very, this has happened. So many times. The clan mentality of the Irish. And technology, think about technology. I mean, theater Roosevelt's born in 1858. There's no electricity. There's no cars. There's no airplanes. There's no submarines. He's the first president to travel abroad. While in office, he's the first president to send a telegraph

by wire. He's the first president to use a telephone in the White House, first president in a motorcade, first president in an airplane in a submarine and on and on and on and on and on the list goes. So technology is uprooting the way people feel about life. Yeah. They're scared because it's moving so fast and so changing so quickly. What does this get to mean? And here's this person who says, I'm embracing this. It's going to be okay. And he's also one of the great naturalists of our time.

So he knows to get out of the car and get on horse and get out into nature and have a tonic

I mean, it's all happening again. History doesn't repeat. It rhymes. Mm-hm. Um, totally off. I want to get back into this, but just it's just popping in my head. Where was you in his career when he got shot? He was the ex president. Okay. It was like the bull moves era. Bull moves definitely. Yeah. He's he's running against his, his, his successor, tapped and Wilson. He's an independent bull moves progressive. And that's when he got winged.

Yeah. But not winged. I mean, he and I've ever seen like we're going to have that,

those pieces. They've never been. We got him. We got him. We got him. We got him. We got him.

“So I've got, so the only thing that saved TR's life. He took a point blank shot right in”

the chest. And it was, he had a double-breasted suit. He had a speech about 50 pages long doubled over in his breast coat pocket. And then the thing that really saved him, he had his eyeglass case that was steel reinforced. And that's the, that's the, that's the one. Seriously? Yep. I don't know about the eyeglass. Yeah. I've thought he had like a book or something. No, no, it was it. All three items really combined to save. See, that had been Lincoln because the getty's burger dress was so short.

Yeah. It had a punch right through it. Right. That's right. That's right. It's crazy. So we're

reeniting these items for the first time. They've never been on display together. Yeah. You guys got the

eyeglass case. The eyeglass case. So the bullet, who had the diameter of the bullet hole going in the front part of the case is very wide. I mean, you're like, oh, he's, he's dead. And then it narrows, you could see how much it narrows out the other side. It's loaded down. I mean, I had it gone through it. The velocity that it was intended at point blank range. He's dead. Did you all ran a little bullshit me? Did you know about the eyeglass case? I did. I couldn't have

described the whole to you. But, but you got to come to the door and start to go ahead. So the national park service had the eyeglass case. Another park had the shirt. So it all got separated through the years. And the revolver, the gun is gone. And by the way, the assassin was stocking theater Roosevelt through several different speeches and looking for the opportunity to shoot a midpoint blank range. He had a dream, a vision that William McKinley, the president who was assassinated

that allowed TR to ascend to the presidency, had spoken to him and told him that he needed to prevent

theater Roosevelt from seeking a third term. Then he was an illegitimate president and then he had to be

killed. Makes sense. I mean, they recently, right? I mean, think about this too, political violence. Another thing that was a hallmark of TR's time that we're experiencing again. I mean, this is three presidents were assassinated in TR's while he's coming up through the system. I mean, including his, the McKinley who leads to him becoming the youngest president in history. I mean, this was unfortunately routine. You know, the dude that killed Lincoln,

shot Lincoln in the theater. Yep. And then went and hit out no John Wilkes booth went and hit the book to pause story. There were no now we're going to come on here. Okay. All right. Okay.

“The dude that shot Lincoln, uh-huh, shot him in a theater. And I think they caught him in a book to pause.”

I'm not joking. Look at that one you're saying. The guy shot Kennedy shot Kennedy shot him from a book to pause a story. They caught him in the theater. You know, that Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy and Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln. Didn't know that. Back, back, man, where's your computer, man? I'm flying blind. Someone looked, I didn't know about the glasses go food. Did you look up where did Booth get caught? I thought he was a barn. No, I could be wrong, but check, check this out.

Well, when we were on, we're just on live tour. Oh, yeah. And we're doing a show in Dallas. And none of us knew this. Like we like book the venue. One of our guys. He's hanging around somehow. He's going to get a cup of coffee or something. What's up out in front of the venue. And he's reading some sign and he comes back. He's like, this is where this is where it has. Well, like it's wearing the building where I was going to go. Yeah. Yeah. And it's right next to a

dispensary called doobies, which everything changes. Everything was a big duty for us. And you brought us together. You'd be brothers. Right. Yeah. He was in the text. He shot him from the six floor of the Texas book depository. Yeah. He's caught at a theater. So that's probably what you're

“right. Yeah. He was caught at the theater. He was caught at a movie theater. Yeah. That's why”

my tip it was caught in a theater. I was caught in a theater. Lincoln was shot in a theater. And I found that. They're trying to move. The park. But it's where they catch booth. And at the theater. To a far, a rural, a farm in rural North Virginia. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I'm

Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy from the book. It was pretty close. Oh, barn. Well, things are stored there. I think they were, they must have been having a lot of

“just trust me listeners. That's why I'm thankful. It's a great book. Maybe they started the”

fire with books. They were getting, yeah. That's what I'm going to. I'm going to give you that one. But the cow depository was full. Yeah. They caught about. Yeah. Okay. It was a big depository. Okay. The book. No. We're on track. No. We're on track. There's a great book about that. By the way,

manhunt, James Swanson, 12 day manhunt. Never read it by seeing it. I think it was turned into a

series. Yeah. I don't know. I remember something. I can visualize the burning of the barn. Yeah. And the series on Garfields. Oh, that's amazing. That's Candice Mallard who also wrote the river of doubt, which page for page. That is, I mean, that reads like a novel. And who, who was Hellhound on his trail was the guy that was the king assassin was out there books about. Yeah. Hellhound on his trail. I understand. Yeah. You're right. Either way. I want to get in our body here.

T.R. [laughs] Welcome to Meet Eater's 12 and 26 presented by multimobile and on X maps. 12 of Meet Eater's biggest and baddest hunts from the last year released throughout 2026. These are long form episodes.

So you get more of what you love. The first one up is my baited bearhunt in Manitoba. If you've ever

wondered what a baited bearhunt is like, you'll love this episode. My favorite part was watching a younger bear spend an hour trying to figure out how to get a creatively hung beaver carcass down from a tree. Check it out now on Meet Eater's YouTube channel and be on the lookout for more 12 and 26 in the coming months. Sickly hit. Yeah. Beyond sick. Okay. Let's get into it. This forms like his like he has an intense relationship with his mom. Yes. The very first words of the

loves of Theodore Roosevelt are from the beginning Theodore Roosevelt's survival was very much in doubt. Hmm. And I think this is the part that a lot of biographers miss is you. Okay. He's an asmatic sickly kid, but it led his mother to be extraordinarily protective of him to keep him from going outdoors. It wasn't just the asma in the smog and the environmental devastation of New York in the 1860s. It was her really thinking that legitimately he could die if he were exposed to too much.

And so you know, here's a one because of like a bygone thinking like the the miasma or that like it was legitimate thing. It was legitimate thing. I mean, the doctors did not think he would live

“beyond four or five years old. I mean, he he from the beginning of his life learned that you need to”

will yourself through physical and emotional pain. And his mom who's often derided as having no influence over him, she is a charismatic southerner, right? She she's from the Bullock family. She's the inspiration for Scarlet O'Hara in gone with the wind. I mean, she's a little character. Yeah, where it will says she dressed him up in little dresses. I mean, they did that in the age. That was Victorian. She that was that yes, you would you would. Yes, but that was not uncommon.

That's fair. It was not uncommon. He put it all like it was unknown. But no, it's I mean,

I always thought it's it's this interesting. He's not like growing up wearing buckskins and no, no, no, no,

he's for a use me use that at Stephen. I mean, he's from the elite of the elite society. He's rich. There's no reason for him to go into politics or to go out into nature other than at the time, the doctors would give two different cures for women. They would say you need the rest cure. Right. If you're afflicted by something, go lie down in bed. For men, they would say you need the west cure. Go west, go hunting, get out to nature. Do something that will revive your spirits.

But as a child, I mean, many his mother would literally massage his chest when he was having as

“asmatic attacks at in blood would come out. I mean, that that's how often that bad that bad. I mean,”

she, he would have these recurring, he remembers. He are remembers as a child having recurring nightmares where the devil would come in the middle of the night and steal him away. And I mean, in the devil, he's like contemplating his own mortality. Yes. And even when he gets, when he's 20 years old, he goes to a doctor at Harvard. And the doctor says, you have, you will not live past 60. And he doesn't. I mean, so he decides at that moment in his life. He is going to live to the

hilt. How old is he when he died? 60. He had just turned 60. I know. Was that young? Right? I mean,

I never really like, yeah, that young. Yeah, it's kind of crazy to think of all the accomplished.

“That's my hair. Super young, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. Get out of there. What do you expect, dude?”

Yeah, I mean, right, you have a long life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, midi, let's start with mom, because you always have to start with mom. Right? She is a, she's a southerner. She grew up in Georgia. She's willful. She's got this incredible personality. Everybody, she's a great storyteller. Right? So everybody knows that like midi's the one who will entertain you. And she's got an incredibly refined taste. She marries a New Yorker. And she is in New York during the Civil War. And brings her mother

and her sister up from Georgia to live with the Roosevelt. So you know, Roosevelt? She's an abolitionist

Oh, no, no, she was a deep. She was a, she believed in the Confederacy. She would fly the Confederate flag.

She refused to have her husband fight for the Confederacy because she feared he'd meet her

“brothers on the field of the Union. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she and she, I mean, home. She, okay,”

she didn't want her brothers to do what? So midi Roosevelt, later Roosevelt's mom, and Eleanor Roosevelt's grandmother, was a Confederate drone through and unreconstructed. But she, it's so she forbade her husband. Okay. Data Roosevelt's father from fighting for the Union. Okay, all right. So instead, what he did for fear that he would be, he would fight against her family. Exactly. Exactly. And so dasturately, where his, where her brothers deeds, that they were not

granted, general amnesty after the Civil War. Oh, really? Yes. Yes. They lived the rest of their life in Europe in London and in Liverpool. They were like forest bed for types. Yeah. Exactly. Now, they, they, they were the ones that figured out how to run the blockade. So they would get

“supplies because the South didn't have steel and didn't have some of the things you need for”

munitions and creating rifles and bullets. And so they were sneaking all of that in very effectively from London to the South. Okay. And then one of them was thought to have been part of the financing of Lincoln's assassination. Really. Yes. So, I mean, they were just Confederates. They were devout Confederates. I mean, one of her brothers tombstones in Liverpool says an American by birth in Englishmen by choice. Really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The T-R was addressed that kind of stuff later in life.

Yeah. I mean, you know, this, he, he was a Northerner who had his identity in the East with a Southern mother who had this political identity in the West because of his cowboy and ranching days. He was, he was the all American quintessential perfect candidate to kick open the door of what would become the American century because he had something for everybody, right? However, his mom died them. His mom died on the same day as his wife, February 14th, 1884. So did she,

19 years after the Civil War, what was her attitude at that point? I mean, she was according to her son and unreconstructed remained. Yeah. That's too whole life. And think about it. So, I mean, again, I bring up her mother and her sister, both lived with the Roosevelt's. So, he's growing theater Roosevelt's growing up in a house with one brother, two sisters, his mother, his grandmother, and his aunt. He's got a lot of feminine influences in the house, right? And his dad is off with

Lincoln often because he can't fight for the union. He's decided to lead an effort to take part of soldiers' earnings and convince them to send them back to their families because they would get paid and they were the primary earners. They were away from the house. And a lot of them would blow it on part of your food and exactly because they could die at any moment. But he was trying to

convince them to send this back. So this is amazing. I found what a complex scenario though. I was

like like put a finer point on what a complex situation for T.R.'s mother. Yeah, where she's got relatives trying to violate the blockade. Yep. And then she's got other close family members like run around and involved at an administrative level with running the union war effort. Theodore Roosevelt grew up in a house divided in a nation divided and he learned from his parents that you can disagree without being disagreeable. You can, you can be vitriolically opposed to

one another, but you at heart be to love one another. And it's a message he'll carry his whole life. But he really does learn that you need to find a way to bring people together to get the best

when his father dies, so Theodore Roosevelt's father dies when T.R. is a sophomore in college. He's only 20 years old. We'll kill him. He had cancer and he didn't, they didn't know necessarily if it was going to be deadly. And so Theodore Roosevelt didn't make it home in time to say goodbye. We're kind of cancer. He had stomach cancer and it was excruciating. His brother, Elliott, which is a whole other fascinating dynamic. Like Elliott in the competition that they had,

Elliott is handsome and dashing and at first shows a lot more promise than T.R. and academically,

he's a fabulous hunter. I mean, Elliott is he's like a sharp shooter. He, there's stories of him shooting elk from 200 yards away without, I mean, and T.R. couldn't do this. I mean, T.R. had terrible eyesight. He had to practice. He had to work at it. He had to like fight his way through everything he ever did. And, and so all these family dynamics add up to who he really is. And, and, and, and, you know, MIDI, his mom teaches him two really important things. One, how to tell

stories and how to connect with people with empathy. Big, big, big part of how why he's successful as a politician. And after his father dies, she sits him down. So it's all the kids down and says,

“you need to live for the living and not for the dead. And you do not live a life of purpose.”

You will dishonor the memory of your father. There it is. I mean, willing himself through physical and emotional pain, and this great big personality, both of those things come from his mother. His father is a great man. It can't be denied. But the fact that he died at age 20, when T.R. was 20, really gave this outsize importance to his father and theater Roosevelt's memory. Because his whole life he was trying to be, you know, honor him and be better than him in many ways

to fill the life that he didn't get to live. Now, when he was a kid, part, if you read about, if you read about T.R. from as a conservationist, a big part of that narrative is that he developed this fascination with wildlife as a kid, where he kind of becomes a hobbyist, taxidermist, he's a naturalist, he's engaged in the study of wildlife. To what extent is that going on under, to what extent is that going on with the awareness of his mother and what is his mother's

“take on that? Is she supportive of that or does that stuff bugger?”

She's extraordinarily supportive. I mean, even though she's a bit of a germaphob, she, you know, he stores mice in the refrigerator. And, you know, he's got Roosevelt Museum of Natural History in his room. This is what we're doing at the T.R. Library. We're actually recreating his boyhood room like his imagination. So taxidermy, you know, going to, he does these, I've seen the collections at this Smithsonian, it's extraordinary to see, you know, because he's really a dedicated scientist.

I mean, conservationists, then, and now, he's hunting in order to study them, to understand.

And he's always creating a series, right? So it's not just to get this thing like he,

he hunted so much, like it's ridiculous amount to the volume of the hunting. He's doing it for scientific purposes, right? He needs one of each time in order to see the variations in them. Yeah, there was like, he was like in an era of, of, of cataloging. Exactly. Yeah. And you could see that in throughout his whole life. I mean, he's a very serious naturalist, even as a young child. You know, he's, he's not just, you know, he's not just hunting.

He's then doing the taxidermy, putting the scientific explanations. Another source of tension with he and his brother, his brother would say, good Lord. Like, we're on the hunt. Can you just live? Could you just have some fun instead? He, you know, do catalog and the scientific names and

“the variations of the species and, you know, he's a really, I think, but for meeting Alice Hathaway”

Lee, he probably would have become a naturalist or a scientist. I mean, there were two reasons he didn't in college. One, natural sciences were shifting from the outdoors into the laboratory. He didn't want to be in a laboratory. He wanted to be out in nature. And two, he met Alice Hathaway Lee. Uh, did he have a lot of girlfriends like when he's a kid? Did he have the people have girlfriends in the eye? He did not, he did not because he was a geeky naturalist in whose wake

from Eldehyde lingered. I mean, he had specimens. He had a from Eldehyde. He had a stench. He had he was an oddball. I mean, the recollections of his college friends are pretty harsh. I mean,

his first biographers literally just ignored all that and kept it out of the record because they

would want to live with him? Well, he's got taxidermy and and from Eldehyde and all these

“dangerous chemicals that you'd use at the time. I mean, no, he did not have a lot of girlfriends.”

Well, it's open until up until he went to Harvard. That was, that was his first time in a classroom,

right? I mean, he had private tutors up until then. Did he have as a kid? Did he have much exposure to people outside of his family that were his of his cohort or his experience in Harvard, sort of his first? It's a good question. I mean, because his uncles, his mom's brothers were overseas, they take these great trips to Europe, right? And to, to, you know, to Egypt, he did some collecting and he did a lot of collecting there and his father would give him rifles for his birthday and

for Christmas and then they'd go on these, I mean, these long, they were gone for the year 18 months and that was his first exposure to the larger world. And certainly the natural world, he's got, he's got this extraordinary relationship with Henry Davis, my not, who would be considered sort of his best friend in college and actually the the namesake of my not North Dakota and they're, they're constantly talking about like how to, how to be a man, like how to show your

manliness and in this Victorian era, you know? And, and they go out and they, they, his first book, it's not really a book, is the, the birds of the atarondacks. So they spend the entire summer cataloging all the birds of the atarondacks and then publish a book of, of their summer studies. I mean, not, you know, it's not, not exactly your normal activity for a wealthy, feet person of the time. Did, did, where did the primary, what was the primary wealth on his father side or on his

mother side? They were both wealthy, but the big bulk of it came from his father's side. So his father, so he was more loaded than his wife. Yeah, he was, he was a partner in Roosevelt and sons, but his real focus was philanthropy. He was the founder of the American Museum of Natural History, who is the founder of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. He founded the first orthopedic hospital man. Is, yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is what he did. His, his grandfather,

Cornelius van Chak Roosevelt, was the, you know, I do loaded. Well, but this is the only one that my

“kids remember because his initials are CVS. Oh, they're like CVS. The money came from CVS. I'm like,”

yes, it did, but not the CVS you're thinking of. That's not where he got his money. He was one of the founding directors of Chemical Bank, which then became Chase, Chase Manhattan, that became Chase, that's JP Morgan Chase today. So the Roosevelt family fortune still lives on in the form of JP Morgan Chase with whom he had all kinds of battles and is another great story. You know, okay, so get into the woman and the met. So yeah, how old? So he's 18 and there's a really

consequential year in theater Roosevelt's life, 1878, February 9th, 1878. He's in his first year

in college and his father dies. Someone unexpectedly, he doesn't make it home to say goodbye. He never

forgives himself and he never forgives his brother Elliot for not telling him that dad was going downhill. Yeah. Then he goes home and to your earlier question about did he have any girlfriends? He had one that he had was very close with who was Edith Karo, his childhood neighbor and his home schooled playmate. So his mother brought Edith into the fold of the family and at shoes three years younger, same age as his younger sister and everyone thought they were going to get married. Everyone thought

inevitably when Edith comes of age at 17, which in the Victorian times would be your eligible to wed, they were going to get engaged. Her birthday comes around. That wouldn't have been unusual in those days. You would marry someone you were brought up around. No, they very common. Very common expected, right? Because there was like family connections and yeah. But Edith came from a family whose fortunes were falling and the Roosevelt's were incredibly rising. So there was some tension and

Edith's father was an alcoholic who lost control of the family business. She was a real independent tough minded, you know, not going to suffer fools, gladly, woman. And so August 22nd, 1878 comes and they go for, they go out picking water lilies, they go for a robot ride, no extra bay,

and something happens. They have an explosive fight and break up and they never tell anybody what

“happened. They only talk about a twice the rest of their lives. I think each other put the moves on her.”

I could be. We need the Netflix adaptation of the Loves of Theodore Roosevelt to really speculate here.

his girlfriend and then he goes back to college. It's the sophomore year and he meets Alice Hathway Lee and Alice and him and Edith are just done. He's like, who's Edith? But where is Edith? Like gone? Like, he meets Alice. He goes on a mad two-year pursuit. I mean, imagine being the object

“of Theodore Roosevelt's affections and he determines I'm going to marry you. Like that's what”

it was for two years. He gets a horse and it puts a horse in the stable. He rides the horse so often. He lambs the horse because it's 12 miles to her home at Chestnut Hill from Cambridge. He gets a horse and buggy. Once he lambs the other original horse so he can go there. Once he breaks the buggy, he walks. He walks over 50 times 12 miles round trip to her house to to see Alice. He thinks that a fellow classmate Charlie Ware is trying to make the moves on her. So he challenges

him to a duel and calls for French dueling pistols. Really? He once, yes. He's made a red flag today. I want to see the red flag. That would be a red flag. He was key to showing up. I sure do. I want to see the comedian Joey Diaz in years ago. He was talking about how kids got it so easy now, dating so easy now with phones. He's like, when I was kid, if you wanted to get hold your girlfriend, you had to sneak under a window and throw gravel at him. That's right.

Yeah, theater Roosevelt had to walk 12 miles round trip to see his girlfriend.

So he, she finally relance. She agrees. She was being resistant at first.

She's the most eligible bachelor at in all of Boston. I mean, to set the stage, she comes from the Lee and Salton stall family. There's this old Boston toast. And this is good old Boston, the home of the bean in the cod where the locals talk only to the cabinets and the cabinets talk only to God. She's a habit. Right. So like the geeky naturalist in whose wigs and meldahide lingers,

going for the most eligible bachelor at in Boston? No way. Like not going to happen. And she really, I mean, she puts them off for two years. And her family probably has a big saying as to that's where the sisters come in. That's where her mom, the TR's mom comes in. He, he decides I'm not going to win her unless she falls in love with my family. She, they have to find, they have to see that the Roosevelt's are pretty awesome. So he

brings his sisters and his mom out to Cambridge throws a party. They all love each other. Then they invite the Lee's back to New York. And again, that's where it turns. She, I think that Alice had the way Lee fell in love with his sisters and his mom as much as he

did TR, the idea of being a part of this incredible family. And she's a spitfire. I mean, Alice is

almost the same height as him, very athletic, loves to hike, loves to play tennis. You know, like imagining what his life would have been like. And in the four years that they're together, six years total, he writes his first major book, The Naval History of the War of 1812. He's elected to his first public office. He goes to but quits Columbia Law School. If you've ever quit law school, you have something in common with TR. He too did not finish.

Like he, in his own words, he rose like a rocket. So there's a lot of historical speculation about what he ever been president had his first wife lived. And I think unquestionably. So here's a stunning one. Right. Oh, I don't get that. I don't get what you're saying. Well, because she was written

“off in history as inconsequential. That the best thing she ever did for TR was die. I mean,”

that's really literally men written. Like that like she was sort of from the elite society. She wouldn't have, you know, would he have ever gone west? I mean, there's all kinds of counterfactuals. I got about what he would have settled into this, like, Patricia. Right. Right. Which doesn't, it's not around our robots all the time. So I mean, two, two facts like they do. Yeah. So they are, she's expecting their first child when he first comes out to the Dakota Badlands. I mean,

that's, that's basically his, his trip before the baby's board. Okay. And that's when he

invests $14,000 half of his inheritance in cattle. He never owns land because it's open range.

But he invests a huge amount of money in cattle. And then he calls that giant, how's that line and up with the idea that if she had died, he wouldn't have gotten into all this stuff. It doesn't. But that is a new take that the loves of theater Roosevelt is the first book that really says

“Alice Hathaway Lee made T.R. Part of who he is. And you have to, in order to do it all the”

later off. Yes. Or she's been generally written off historically. Yes. Very written off. Yes. Like, didn't matter, speed bump on the, on the road to his inevitable success. I think losing her

I'm, I'm rich. And I'm, I've been elected to the New York State Assembly. And yet, you know, my father, my mother and my wife have all died in six years. Well, I, that is the moment it turns. He's 25 years old. And all of a sudden, he has a life wish. He starts doing things that you might think are crazy or, well, I got to have you back up. Yeah. At this point in his life, he's already done all that like main stuff, right? Yep. Like hunting and main all the time. Yep.

So he's when he can down when he gets, he gets married to Lee. And during that marriage,

he does his big trip out to North Dakota. Correct. Shoots the first Buffalo issue. It's correct.

Invest in cattle. Yes. As like an absentee cattleman. Yes. Right. Yep. Okay. And then, but line all that up with

“her death and explain how so comes to die. Okay. So this is, this is an important part of the story.”

I'm glad you asked us to back up. So he got engaged on February 14th, 1880 Valentine's Day. Good. They announced it to the world. Four years later, they're expecting their first child. And Theodore was a, he was into numerology and things. He was a bit of a super, he was superstitious. And he, so he believed that the baby was going to be born on the anniversary of their engagement. February 14th, Valentine's Day. So he goes back to Albany, where he's a New York state of

Assemblyman on February 11th. And he gets a telegram on February 12th. The next day, saying the baby has been born and Alice is only fairly well. But it's too late for him to go. So he makes a

arrangements to leave Albany and return to New York on February 13th. He gets a second telegram on

“February 13th. We don't know what the telegram said. But his face goes ash and white. And he drops”

the telegram and literally runs from the New York state assembly to the train station in Albany. Normally, this trip would take two to two and a half hours. There's a thick dense fog that is descended over New York City. So thick that you cannot get a handsome cab from Grand Central Station. It took five and a half hours for him to take the trip from Albany to New York all the while not knowing what awaits him on the other side. He walks the 15 blocks through this fog to six West 57

street where he's told there is a curse on this house. Mother is dying and Alice is dying too. He runs up to the third floor. He holds Alice his wife in his arms until one 30 in the morning, when he's called to the second floor. His whole family is there and his mother MIDI dies

“of typhoid fever. He goes back up to the third floor. Holds Alice in his arms for 11”

straight hours until 230 in the afternoon on Valentine's Day when she two dies of brights disease, a kidney disorder that was exacerbated by the childbirth. He is devastated. He writes an X in his diary and says the light has gone out of my life. And the next day he makes plans to not run for reelection and to head out to the badlands of North Dakota where he says to his family, "I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to the badlands. What I shall do after that I do not know."

And what kid was that? That was Alice. They named her after the monkey. So she's the first born and the last to die, born 1984 dies in 1980 and she was left in the care of his older sister, Bami. So this is where Bami comes in. Bami is older sister is like the political Svengali. She's the one who she takes care of the baby for almost three years while he's in North Dakota. She's the one that reunites him with Edith and ensures he'll get married again.

She's the one who sells the home at six West 57th Street. She oversees the construction of Sagymor Hill. It's Bami that arranges for him to have a role in the Harrison Administration as civil service commissioner. Bami says, "You know, maybe it would be a good idea to come back to New York and be New York police commissioner." Bami sets up the meeting that leads to him becoming Assistant Secretary of the Navy. I mean, it's like in those days, the woman wasn't going

to do those roles. Correct. And she's like, "Fronting a guy." Yes. Because I can't do it.

She put it all. I would never be able to do it. All her energy. So think of this Eleanor Roosevelt

said of theater Roosevelt's two sisters, Bami and Connie. If you wanted advice, you went to Bami. If you wanted sympathy, you went to Connie. Because they were, to very personality is very, very different. Bami was the one who, like, she saw the political chess board. I mean,

piss people off. Bami was the one who's like, "You know who you need to talk to is this person

“or that person or this is the job you need to go into next. She's the strategist. She's the one”

convincing him. She's convincing the McKinley campaign that he's not a hothead. I mean, they don't want to put him into the role of assistant secretary because he of what exactly what happened. That is soon, you know, that war came. He left and became the hero of the war. You know, I mean, when he's governor of New York, his sister Connie holds these breakfast and they invite the political bosses in and they've arranged this in advance. And at some point, the boss is going

to say, "All right, everyone get out. I want my time with the governor." And they said, "Well, certainly my, my sister can stay." I mean, she, she is but a woman and she takes such an interest in

my affairs. And so Connie would knit in the corner, listen to everything. And then they were talking

about. And when they left, T.R. had somebody who'd heard everything and he could talk at all through.

“It's she would don't plot the movie exactly. I mean, so involved with Connie in his”

governorship that Theodore Roosevelt said to his sister, " Haven't we had fun being governor of New York?" Hmm. Man, it's crazy. Welcome to Meaters, 12 and 26 presented by Multimobile and ONX maps. 12 of Meaters' biggest and baddest hunts from the last year released throughout 2026. These are long-form episodes so you get more of what you love. The first one up is my baited bear hunt in Manitoba. If you've ever wondered what a baited bear hunt is like, you'll love

this episode. My favorite part was watching a younger bear spend an hour trying to figure out how to get a creatively hung beaver carcass down from a tree. Check it out now on Meaters' YouTube channel

and be on the lookout for more 12 and 26 in the coming months. This is something that's always,

I mean, it's really, this is fascinating because I've always had this curiosity about he's such a hedge-strong individual and I don't really, there's so many aspects of his life where you think, this guy's not really thinking beyond what's in front of a face and he's just like, yeah, punching at that, whatever's in front of his face. But then this chapter of his life where he rises to the presidency, he checks all these boxes and rises. It seems like a very different mindset

is guiding him at that moment as opposed to the guy who just goes out west to forget about and brando that, the secret sauce, it's his sister's behind the scenes saying, hold on now, now you got to be here, now you got to be there, now you got to do this, now you got to do that. And they support him and Edith comes back into the picture. So the girlfriend that he broke up with on August 22nd of 1878. After putting the moves on, probably, we don't know,

“you know, longer smells like from out of high. He's, yeah, by the way, just because I think you're”

in your audience, we'll appreciate this. When he marries Alice, the one thing he's not going to be as a naturalist, I mean, she didn't mind that he went hunting and was outdoors. She would go hiking and such with him. But that's when he donates all of his childhood specimens. That's to the, oh, no. Really, yeah, he says, she's, so I can only imagine to ever say, you know what's not coming with us to the new house, the taxi, the all the taxiderms got to go.

But the buys and interestingly, there's only three photographs of six West 57 Street, which was technically his mother, mother and father's home, but he lived there for a while. And that's where the buys and ended up. It was, you can see it clear his day that that's the buys and that he shot in North Dakota. And then at some, at some point, moves to Sagamore Hill had to be Bami. I mean, where's it now? It's in Sagamore Hill to this day. You guys can't get

your hands on that one. I, you know, I feel like it, I maybe we could for a bit. It would be nice to bring it back home for a, for a bit. But it's such a, who's the owner of it, the National Park Service. Yeah, the, so short version of a long story, eat if outlives TR by 30 years, several of her kids have died in World War I and World War II and Kermit is dead by that point. So there's only two, three if you include Alice or step daughter. And so they convince her to one die as in the

war and then later one kills himself. Yep, theater is the only present. I'm talking about TR's kids. Yeah. Yeah. He's the only president to have a son or daughter die in combat, only president to have a son or daughter die in World War I and World War II. Wow. Only one of two fathers and sons to be awarded the Medal of Honor. I mean, he's like the record of service and sacrifice in this family is the charts.

And they all did a, ethyl, ethyl was a part of the American Red Cross. I mean, the boys all fought, but the, I mean, the girls were involved too. Anyway, so they convince mom, eat it through

to fight. They actually felt, you know, what's interesting about TR's rise backing up as a

“rough writer is it's the first time that the country fights as red white and blue again. It's the first”

major battle after the Civil War. And so you think about like how did he, I mean, yes, it was heroic and he became the hero of that story. But it he became the hero of the biggest war since the Civil War. He became the symbol of American unity. And again, has this northern father, southern mother, eastern political identity, and western ranch cowboy image. He's like perfect. He's central casting. By the way, the journalist who documents all of TR's exploits in Cuba, Richard Harding

Davis introduced to TR by Bami. Oh, really? Yeah, it says, you know, what would be a good idea is if you're kidding, she's like his PR agent. Yeah. Yeah. And Connie will do the same. Connie, when he's in the White House. So Edith is very private. You know, she's more circumspect. She's universally known as a better judge of character. He doesn't make a single appointment without talking

“to Edith. She redesigns the White House puts her office next to his, I say, and the loves a theater”

Roosevelt. He's in, she's in the room where it happened because she designed it that way. So she's involved, but she doesn't love the personal side of politics. Actually, she doesn't politics at all. I mean, when it's over, she says, I'm so glad it is all over the presidency. But Connie knows that if the American public falls in love with theater Roosevelt's family, he'll be more successful politically. So she's the one that leeks the stories of, you know, a gunk when the pony coming

up to the second floor, the wrestling matches at four o'clock, the jujitsu in boxing in the White

House. You know, she's the White House. She knows people are going to eat this. They're going to love it. I mean, it makes in person of all. It's like a crazy, menagerie of a zoo, and this big family, and they're fun, and they're active, and they're adventurous, and she knows. I mean, she's the one that leeks the story about Emily the snake. You know, she's Alice, the daughter, famously wears a green snake around her neck. And when they ask, like, what's with the snake? She says,

"Well, this is Emily Spinach." And he says, "Well, who's Emily Spinach?" She says, "Well, I don't like my aunt, Emily, and I don't like Spinach." So it's Emily Spinach. So you were saying the

eat of the winds of being a good judge character. She gets better judge character than TR. 100 percent.

100 percent. He's exactly as Randall said. Like, if he has a fault, it's that he's what serves him so well, his instincts can turn on him and not serve him well in a political arena, because he's very trusting of people. He likes everyone. He generally feels that people have good motives, and he's impetuous. He makes quick decisions and doesn't think about necessarily the consequence. He does the opposite. Right? She's slow. She's plotting. She's calculating. She's

I like, she's described as "parched." He has a valet, I know. Well, the people that quotes, the people really love is she describes her grandchildren. She says, "I love to see their little faces, but I prefer to see their backs." You know, I don't know why I'm making a think of this talk about, like, someone's wife has a judge character. Years ago, I used to hang out a lot of, like, I used to hang out more writers than I do now. Yeah. Like, I used to hang out all writers almost.

And once I'm out, I'm not going to say his name, but I had the certain writer over my house,

and we had dinner together, and he leaves my wife like, "That guy's never coming back in this house again."

And I kind of sat on that forever. And the other day, I told a mutual friend that story. And I told my wife, you know, I was telling him about what you said about his body. And she was just not happy, but I share. But maybe she was right. I thought, yeah, coming that story was going to be a

“vindication. Resil. That's the only time. Do we have some crazy people over a house, you know?”

That's the only time she's ever said, "No." Well, that's kind of what you were supposed to. Kind of the dynamic with Edith and T.R. Like, she gave him a long leash, but when she pulled it in, she was serious, right? Like, it was like, "Hey, I'm not kidding about this one." For example, 1912. He's contemplating running for president again. He's constitutionally able to. And he's pissed that he gave the reins to William Howard Taft.

Everybody's like, "Oh, T.R. You got to do it. You got to do it. You're going to win." You got to do that again for people that don't know this whole history. So theater Roosevelt in 1904, when he wins election in his own right, makes one of the biggest

Just so you don't get bored. McKinley does. McKinley does. And Roosevelt comes into office

“off the, like, he's the vice president. Yep. And he's an unexpectedly boom. There he is.”

And says, he turns around and earns it on his own. Yep. He wins elected office in his own right, which was his goal. I mean, he really felt like he was walking in a dead man shoes. Sure. And he made a lot of change. And that was very risky. He was convinced he was going to lose. It turns out to be a route. One of the biggest political victories in U.S. history in 1904. The same for Johnson, right? Like Johnson comes in. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I mean,

so he comes in with the, he's got the wind that is back. And he's not restricted to two terms. And technically, he's picked up part of the term of another president. So, because, because that wasn't, it wasn't in the terms, it wasn't codified yet. No, it was a tradition, but it wasn't exactly. So, like, FDR to three. So, without consulting his wife, Edith, who's in the room. Or another one after FDR to do three. FDR to four. But he died very early into his fourth

thermo. So, he won four. Yeah. FDR overlearned the lesson that T.R. didn't learn. He made up for his distant cousins decisions. He's not bound by turning around, but he's got like a term limit under McKin, he's got McKee pick up three and a half years. He's been president. He's going to be president for seven and a half years. But close to two full terms. He wouldn't have violated the

norm. No, he's to, to, he would have been the first president to run for a third term. And but he

almost said what we would say. I didn't have a full first term. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And everybody thought he would. He gets up on election night. And announces, I will not stand for election in 1908. He makes himself a lame duck. I mean, every, an edith was seen to wince. And Bami was like, what, what, you got to take it back. I mean, you got to, you got to say you

“that's not true that you maybe you will, maybe you won't. What year did he make that an else?”

The election night, 1904. So, 1904, he says in eight, this will be my last term. Same thing, kind of. Well, and how that work out? Well, he tried again. And did that work out? I mean, you know, generally don't make pronouncements that you're not, I mean, I think the thing about TR is he says what he means. It means what he says. Okay. Right. He's a straight shooter. And so he's, he's, he's observing the tradition. His heroes are Washington and Lincoln. Right.

I mean, he recalls his a child watching Lincoln's funeral in New York, like he wants to emulate because he knows going on that big ass Africa hunt trip. That's, well, he did, he did what that's true. Yeah. And let me tell you why he's pretty, he's pretty excited about that. Yeah. Yeah. So he says, he's not going to run for reelection. All of the women in his life say, this is a disastrous decision. And it was the worst political decision he made in his life because

he regretted 100%. Yeah. He because he was a reformer. He was a progressive and I don't mean progressive in the sense of politics. I mean, he was outside the system, right? He was pushing change. I mean, he was pushing the boundaries of what was and what could be. I mean, he, he,

so once an agitator is out, they never let them back in. I mean, eat it to knew this.

Bam, he knew this. Like once you give up power voluntarily, you were never going to get it back. So he sits by. He goes on the African safari for over a year. He's getting reports about what's happening back home. They're not following your agenda. One of the big things was conservation. Did he, did he pick, was he successful in picking his successor? Yes. Okay. So he and hand pick endorsed and that carried the weight. 100%. I got it. Yes. And it was a odd pick. So he could

a one. Absolutely. I got it. I mean, it's not even an entertaining counterfactual. Like if theater Roosevelt had run in 1911. He wins. He wins. That would have to be tapped. Oh, boy. So not a, not a, not a, not a name brand. Yeah. No, I mean, he, uh, but see it against William Jennings Brian, I'm trying to remember, Brian anyway. He, but not someone that became president. Well, no, no, it wasn't close. And, uh, TR regrets it. So fast forward, one of the issues being

conservation, right? He tapped doesn't do anything on conservation. He decides like, what are we doing this for? My word. I mean, he undoes a bunch of some of the things that TR's record includes in the 234 million acres, part of them where coal reserves. He says, we're going to keep the coal reserves. We're going to use them right now. And I mean, so these things start being undone, immediately. God. And they irritate TR. He comes back. And there's a whole group of people saying,

“you know, progressive governor saying, you should run. Edith is the only one who comes to him and”

says, put it out of your mind, theater, you will never be president of the United States again.

way. The machine works. Yeah, they weren't going to let him back. I mean, we're going to

“hit the two parties. The city president was going to just step aside and you were going to get the”

Republican nomination again. So he runs a primary campaign. He, he is the first. If you don't like primaries, you got another thing to blame TR for because he invents them. He says, let the people rule. I know the political system won't give it to me. So I'm going to go out to the people. And he starts campaigning and he wins enough delegates to have the nomination, the Republican nomination, they get to the convention and just as Edith predicted, they deny him the nomination. They give it to

taffed. He challenges his own hand-picked guy. Correct. Yes. In a primary thing. Yes, beats him in a primary. Yes. So here he is campaigning against the guy. Like he hasn't

followed through my right. Which has never been done in history. Right. So this is very unusual. This is

strange. But then the convention years revolve in hand to the city. And in part of the problem, not to get to our cane is that there are other candidates running in the primary. There's fighting Bob LaFalette from Wisconsin who's more progressive than TR. And so the decision is like theater Roosevelt doesn't win the state of North Dakota in the 1912 primary. Good. You know, he he's so his his strength is in the west and in the battlegrounds of the east. And you know, the battlegrounds

are New York, right? Hard to imagine today. But that's the battleground. He never won another Southern state in his political career after having Booker T. Washington to the White House. He was the first

series. Yep. He's the first president to have a black man dying at the White House.

There were threats on his life. There was a senator who said nothing bad would have happened. If a bomb would have gone off under the table killed the president and killed Booker T. Washington. There was a fight that broke out in the Senate floor when that senator made those remarks. TR band that senator Senator Tillman of the racist from the south from ever coming back in the White House again while he was president. I mean, you know, so I talk about political violence like

it was real at the time. And so TR knew he couldn't win the south. He had to win a combination of the east and the west. And so then he is the first president to embrace suffrage. He makes suffrage a part of his 1912 platform. I was going to mention it earlier, just quickly reminding one of the biggest influences Alice had is his senior thesis in college. So theater Roosevelt writes a senior thesis when he's graduating. He endorses suffrage. He endorses a woman's right

to own property. He endorses the idea that women could be doctors, lawyers, and judges. He says women shouldn't necessarily take their husband's name upon marriage. That should be their choice. Very progressive for 1880. That's all Alice. And then when she dies, that kind of that light. He's like, what should my next paragraph be? I can keep some of the taxes, Derby. It's like, maybe my favorites. I keep the buys in, right? Anyway, so he's a very progressive

platform when they pass when they pass and buy and give it back to TAF. Yeah. He then says screw

“y'all. Yes. And does his independent bid the bull moves part, you know that. Yes. So here's the key moment,”

right? So Edith has said no way. This is not going to happen. They go out for a horseback ride in Oyster Bay. A car starts and startles her horse. And she was a very accomplished horse woman. I mean, she she was a good rider. She gets bucked from the horse. She lands on her head unconscious. I mean, she has undoubtedly what today would be a traumatic brain injury. She is outcalled for several days. Yes. Yes. That is when Connie and Bami work with seven progressive governors

to publish a letter that encourages TR to run as an independent as a bull moves. And TR says, I'll throw my hat in the ring. My hat is in the ring. When it's like this, this is not going to happen. She said, oh, what else have you? We're signed up on this right before the horse. You were saying something. It's the horse was bucking you off. I think it was run.

“I think it was run. That's what I heard. I heard run. Run is an independent. That's what I heard.”

That's good to be true. So that tells you anything about their dynamic. But he had to wait till she was outcalled to make the decision to run as a bull moves progressive. She's so pissed that she gets on a trip to the Caribbean with her daughter Ethel. And there's reporters gathered where they're bringing on their luggage. And they say, you know, reporters is the president with you. No, he's not coming on this journey. You know, is that is that hat box? And they say, yes,

He said, I throw my hat in the ring. That was just pain. Basically saying like,

“that one, you want to go go talk to Teddy about hats in the rings. We're going to go to the”

Caribbean and cool off. She was not happy. And she eventually came around. I mean, they all came around and helped him. And you know, then you have the assassination attempt. And for a brief moment, it kind of looks like holy cow. Because he, I mean, the man knew how to create a moment. He knew how to create a spectacle. And so he is shot. He delivers the speech for over an hour. He begins by saying, I don't know if you know, but I have just been shot and opens his coat. And

it is caked in blood. Oh, I mean, to this day when you see the shirt at the Theodore Roosevelt presidential library, like the outline of the blood, he was bleeding. But he coughed into a, you know, coughed and he didn't have any blood coming out of his lungs. So he said, you know, I'm going on stage. And they were like, this is, you got to get off stage. I mean, several times they tried to interrupt him and get him to the hospital. People thought that that the the fist pump

after Trump got shot through the year was bad. This is this is that in 1912. That's level bad. Right. And then he's he's in the hospital. He's still. And he says, and he says, you know, the thing that killed all these prior president who got shot was not the bullet. It was the surgery. It was the exploration. Looking for the, you know, then they get gangrene or they get, you know, so he's like leave it in there. It's fine. If it didn't kill me, it ain't going to kill me. And so he doesn't have

surgery. And two weeks later, he gives a big speech at Madison Square Garden. And it's like, oh my God, he's going to win. You know, he could, he could do it. And there's like a brief flicker of hope, but they split the vote, you know, taft and Roosevelt split the vote. Woodrow Wilson, the Democrat is elected. I mean, you think if he, if TR is elected in 1912, there's a decent chance United States does not get into World War One. I mean, he knew all of the leaders of all the

countries that eventually got into World War One. God, imagine we would be stuck in this bullshit

two party system that we had live under. Yep. I mean, he's the most successful third party candidate

in US history. Yeah, imagine that it happened. You wouldn't have to do this dumb thing that we

“have to do. Well, it's another reason I think he's popular across the political spectrum is,”

you know, when his own party betrayed him or he felt they weren't doing what he thought should be done. He left it. And he ran as an independent. I mean, you know, I just found out, dude, it was kind of surprising is, um, it gives me an opportunity to bring up my honorary PhD. No, I don't know, you know, just over my shoulder there. Oh, wow. He's got the big one, in the frame. It was I was reading that the preps of a present mind is below that. Is it the

small one? The president of the university. Yeah, it rams that a little thinking thing. Anyhow, I just took a way. I just heard the way that I could flex. Yeah, please. When I was there doing that, I had dinner a couple times with the president of University of Montana, guy named Seth Baudner, who's a green bra. I was reading that. I had no idea. I was reading last night, Baudner is resigning from, uh, is resigning from being the president of the

University of Montana to launch a third party bid for Montana's sentencing. Wow. Wow. Well,

you know, it feels like I can't. Which is a death sentence. Well, because you can't, but you don't have to win. You don't have to win a majority. No, that's right. I mean, that's the debt. That's the difference with the presidential election. It's like, there's a structural obstacle

“to a third party winning. But I think like a third party senator could, oh, 100%. I mean,”

there's several of this. It's more plausible, but it's just we just don't. There's a play that game. I feel like we're going through a political realignment. I mean, what we knew as a Republican, when we were kids is now a Democrat, what a Democrat was is now more of a Republican, and it feels like the Republicans, like, when I was a boy, you were free trade. Yeah. Right. You were hawkish. Now it's like you're sort of like a protect, you like protectionist.

So there's a fat. There's a pacifist wing, you know. And this, this is what happens throughout US history is, and it happened during TR's time. Right. There was a change in what a Republican was, and whether the Republican party wanted to be that, and what the Democratic party who was aligned with with slavery, right? I mean, they didn't hold office on the federal level for,

a long time trying to restore their identity. And it's really until FDR comes along and sort of

“steals the playbook from Theodore Roosevelt and says, hey, you know, all those ideas that he was”

trying to convince Republicans to do, why don't the Democrats do them? I mean, you think about the history of conservation, right? I mean, it's fascinating. It's almost like there's four phases.

You've got this first phase where Theodore Roosevelt, the first politician to really appreciate

what academics were talking about in conservation, then put it into legislative action. The federal government, state governments are going to do something related to nature and lands. And then you have FDR who picks up that baton and puts it on steroids. I mean, right? I mean, the CCC and the Works Progress Administration, and that's just explodes into me. He's probably one of our most underrated conservation presidents because so much else taken taken unemployed people,

putting them big camps to do conservation work. Exactly. Right. And so that's TR's idea manifold 40 times. Right. And then you, now you've got these lands. Now you've got these agencies.

Now you've got these rules and laws and regulations. And then there's kind of an era of regulation,

right? There's awareness of environmental protection and degradation and pollution. And that's kind of your, you know, endangered species act. And Nixon, Nixon, another great conservationist. Right. Like it's almost over observed. We talked about it all the time, but like EPA,

“NEPA. Yeah. So in danger species act, NEPA, what else came in under Republicans?”

How all those in the, in Nixon's time, I mean, it was, that was a flurry of, I mean, pretty much, all the federal regulations that you're still dealing with. And so it kind of begs this question. It's why I love the timing of the theater Roosevelt presidential library. It's like what's old is new again. We're at this crux point. We're at this inflection. We're at this midpoint where what is that fourth stage of conservation? What, what is the future of that conversation?

Yeah. You know, it's one of those issues that shouldn't necessarily be partisan or political circuits that way often, but you've had throughout history, Republicans, Democrats, independence, embrace this idea. And that's, that's one of the, I mean, I think like what the Reagan library has done on defense, I feel like TR library can do in conservation, right, create a place of convening and civic conversation to bring people together, to talk about these things, to have a, I mean,

every, I, I've talked to so many different people of different political backgrounds from different states and countries, rural urban, you name it. And I'll say kind of the same thing using different words. It's the words that put them in different camps or sides or parties. And I don't know, maybe it's naive, but that thought of like an independent, just he's somebody that brings people together. Welcome to meat eaters 12 and 26 presented by multimobile and on X maps. 12 of meat eaters

biggest and baddest hunts from the last year released throughout 2026. These are long-form episodes so you get more of what you love. The first one up is my baited bear hunt in Manitoba. If you've ever wondered what a baited bear hunt is like, you'll love this episode. My favorite part was watching a younger bear spend an hour trying to figure out how to get a creatively hung beaver carcass down from a tree. Check it out now on meat eaters YouTube channel and be on the look out for

more 12 and 26 in the coming months. She said that the eaters live 30 years longer. Yes,

he died. Well, what did that 30 years look like for her? Fascinating. Because she never wanted

to be at Sagamore Hill on the anniversary of his death January 6th. She did more. She's six or two. He's the original day six. There's a lot of eerie parallels here. I'm going to get that wrong in the future and make it seem more like you're going to get you're going to get a Kennedy Oswald

“like Nick Lincoln. You know, you died in a book depository. I think it was driving in Dallas. There's”

a book depository and there's riots. It was crazy. She lived her best life. Was she public? She tried not to be. She tried not to be public fish. She would gather with, you know, she's a lot of people would come up to Sagamore Hill. Want to talk with her. Want to remember TR. She would go. She went on her own adventures. She wrote this fabulous book with Kirby and her

goes to that quote. Like I love to see the little faces, but I prefer to see their backs. She traveled

“the world. She went to 30, 40 different countries. She kind of became this global ambassador.”

She lived, she, she, it's interesting because she lived as long, you know, she knew him for 57 of his 60 years. They met when he was three years old and they were married for about 30 years. Okay. So she lived without him as long as they were married. And, and, um,

kind of had this amazing life and adventure. She, I mean, her sad, thought of sadness too. I mean,

Quentin, her youngest son died in World War I. He's the only World War I soldier. Now buried at Normandy alongside his brother, Ted Jr., who died in World War II. Kermit, as you mentioned, died by suicide, but they didn't tell her. They lied. They said, um, you know, he died of a heart attack. Because I didn't want, I mean, so three of her sons died before she did. You know,

“she did endorse. So then you have FDR who comes along in, he runs for governor in New York.”

Then he runs for president in 1932 and Edith comes out of her self-imposed isolation and endorses

Hoover. She, and there's a big split in the family. Yeah. Yep. So Bami had died by this point.

She died in 1931. Okay. I was going to ask if they remained like operatives, like political operatives, or if that, if that passion was just under there was a really fascinating dynamic between Connie, the younger sister, and Ted Jr., so, I mean, imagine being theater Roosevelt Jr., almost impossible. But he has a remarkable life. I mean, he runs for governor and he is unsuccessful. He's taken down by the teapot dome scandal, which, it's the involve the Department of Interior,

speaking of conservation. It was, I mean, oiled down in its greatest simplicity. It was the Secretary of the Interior selling oil leases illegally. And Teapot dome was a place in Wyoming that had oil leases. And he was doing it off the books. And somehow Ted Jr., even though he really didn't have anything to do with this, gets embroiled in the scandal. Eleanor Roosevelt campaigns against him. So the Hyde Park and Oyster Bay branches of the family really began to divide

after the death of TR. FDR emulated TR, loved him. I mean, really modeled his whole career on his distant cousin. I mean, he was a assistant secretary of the Navy. He was governor of New York. He was in the New York state assembly. He of course ran for president. I mean, there's a direct

line. He even, FDR cast his first vote for president for TR in 1904. And when he was asked,

well, you know, because he's a Democrat, why'd you vote for the Republican? He said, well, I thought he made a better Democrat than the Republican. Pretty good, right? You kidding me. Yeah. So so there's a split in the family. Connie really becomes a public figure. She's publishing books. She's giving speeches. She's she becomes the first woman to speak at the Republican National Convention in 1920. A lot of people thought that theater Roosevelt was going to

be the presidential nominee. He'd sort of made a men's with the party. He said if I've declined to run for governor of New York again, because he said if I've got one last fight in me, it's going to be for the presidency in 1920. I mean, he knew he was sick. And of course, the family knew he was sick. But it was a stunner when he died. I mean, he was the leading candidate for the presidential nomination and the Republican party when he died. And I mean, to so much so that they were

trying to soften his support out West and running hits, running, you know, really campaigns already on him trying to make sure that he wouldn't succeed. You know, it's, it's, it's, imagine what happens where he to live and, and win in 1920. You know, again, a whole different world. He gives us the last

“speech. Theodore Roosevelt ever gave in his life is on November 2nd, 1918. It's a Carnegie Hall”

in front of a mixed race audience. W. E. B. Dubois is on stage, the educator. And Theodore Roosevelt says that that he endorses equality amongst black and white and says justice with me is not a mere form of words. I mean, they had he won in 1920. He was going to take aim at Jim Crow 45 years before the Civil Rights Act. I mean, this progressive TR, again, I don't mean it politically. I mean that he, he saw black soldiers fight alongside white soldiers in World War I. And it changed evolved.

as a country going to face? And he thought racism. I mean, he was always anti-Panage. He, he,

“he was anti-Linching. He was very, you know, he made some mistakes, some big mistakes,”

but the NAACP on his death ran an incredible memorial, talking about how we have lost a friend. He was on the board of the Tuskegee Institute, who was on the board of Howard University. I mean, you know, these are like things people don't even like, how do you, but it's because he was so I don't know, he's like a man from the future sent back in time. You know, how he saw what our next battle was going to be? I don't know, it's like during the height of the wokesters,

I remember like I said on the board of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, and like at

the height of the wokesters power, they were like pushing TRCP like disavow him. Yeah. What's interesting,

you get into, yeah, what some of his stances were in the 20s. Well, I mean, we took possession of the equestrian statue that stood outside of the, yeah, what you got. Yes, it is in a safe and secure location in North Dakota on this way. Well, well, it's the trick. It's 168,000 pounds, 16 fees for it. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's not a easy object to move. So by the time we took possession, our plans were well in motion, we will do something with it. We will have it on public display.

“It's a bit bad. From here. I think it's, you're not the first person to offer that. Just get a”

dolly, but it's a new haul. It was, that's kind of the quintessential example, though, Steve. It's, he's a doctor. It is bronze. It's hollow bronze, and the pedestal is enormously heavy. I mean, that's a granite from Connecticut that's considered part of the outside, can you? I wish it were that simple, but, but it's the, but it, it's a quintessential example. And it's bisected. It's actually so in order to move it out of the, move it into the city in 1940, it had to be bisected along the saddle.

Let's say. Yeah. So there's some pieces that need to be, you don't need to tell me the number, but hasn't been appraised. There was an appraisal. Yes. Before we went to Connecticut. Significant. Significant. Yes. Not insignificant. But it was, it's a perfect example of what you're talking about, right? So Theodore Roosevelt dies in 1919, that there's a, there's a fierce competition between Albany and New York City to be the site of the official New York State Memorial

to TR. And by this time, there is a undoubtedly racist head of the American Museum of Natural History. I mean, he's, he's working with Addison Grant, who's talking about, you know, the theories that will eventually inform Hitler and it's not, he's not talking about our body horn today, are you? No, no, no, no, I'm not talking about horn today. No, no, no, not horn today. No, horn today. There's a great book by Darren Lund, which is there, a body book. No, no, but he doesn't. horn, they didn't have a couple

little. Well, not like this. This was, yeah, this was like convening people to talk about racial hierarchy in, let's say, AM and H, right? And so he pitches the idea that the front entrance, this new entrance, like built to build a new entrance. If you've been to the American Museum of Natural History in New York, you know, the entrance is on 70, 70, seven, right? So if you go, there's an old entrance. It's been there forever. And the pitch was, let's make a new entrance on Central Park West. And this, and it is,

it's boon and crocket. And the others four figures up top. There's quotes from TR. There's quotes on

nature and conservation. The families very involved in this. They win the competition. To basically

make the American Museum of Natural History, the New York State Memorial, to theater Roosevelt. And what's fascinating about it is when they're working with their family, Bami, Connie, and Edith,

“in particular, what do you want to be remembered? We want to remember him as a naturalist.”

We want to remember as a conservationist. And we want this entire memorial to reflect who his heroes were. So, you know, it's boon, crocket, Lewis, and Clark. And that's not the third. There is he? Yeah. He's up. I mean, way up on the top. He really got, but this is what's slave owner? Well, I mean, so then later, the president of AM&H says, let's, we're going to commission this statue. Theodore Roosevelt explicitly said, statues do not test last the test of time.

If there's one thing I don't want, it's a statue of myself. I mean, it's one of the few things he didn't want of all the honors that he got. And so, it's not, he means that it doesn't live the test of time. Exactly what happened. I mean, that some time, at some point in the future, there's going to be an interpretation that doesn't meet the intent of its original creation.

that he never had any part of. Yeah. And that's true. I mean, that's what happened.

“That's what I find like, again, he's like a man from the future sent back in time to say,”

don't do this, or this is what the next fight will be. I mean, it's eerie when you think of, I mean, you know, 1907, the economy collapses. He works with JP Morgan to create what will become the Fed. Football is in danger. He calls the presidents of elite universities to the White House. They create what becomes the NCAA and save the game of football. You know, meatpacking and meat inspecting are killing people. He's the one who's reading, uh, Upton's in Claire and others.

And, and, uh, he, he creates the FDA. Right. I mean, it's all on to killing over the short bird.

Yeah. Yeah. He creates pelican island. Great. Pelican island. You'll, you'll love in the

theater of residential library. There's a special section in the presidency on his conservation legacy. And it talks about, you know, of course, the land and the waters and the irrigation projects and everything. But there is a, uh, statue, a bronze statue that we are creating of T. R. And it's a recreation of, of the famous image of him with his hand on the globe. And then, uh, we have a pelican. But he said he didn't want our statues. I know, but we cheated. We, we, we, we put, we, we did

“one that is a recreation of his of a photo. And then, I think the gray snout here is the pelican,”

because, you know, if you know, you know, and if you don't, I was pretty good. And then you'll be kind of a cool to see who, who discovers that. You're, you're a literary man. You might know the answer to this. What was Philip Roth's novel? Uh, was it the plot against America? Yes. Does he do a novel where he imagines that lent Charles Lindbergh wins? Yes. Charles Lindbergh is so popular. He runs in 1940

and wins. And they actually see the advisor. Basically says, let's make peace with

Germany. Let them take what they like and that's the plot against America. Yes. There should be, there should be a novel. There should be a novel that, that, that feed our roles about wins in 1920. At fabulous, right? It's, you know, he, he was tired. He would be like a real happy. Let's cut this out. You know, it was, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a, yeah, yeah. It was a, you know, I don't think he had the fight and the energy left in him. Obviously, since he was very close to death,

but, um, it is pretty extraordinary to wonder what would have happened. I mean, that, that's the TR that I know. I mean, that's in the loves of theater Roosevelt. I'm discovering this person that had great instincts and could make mistakes, but the real takeaway for me was if, if we are all fortunate in life, we have mother, a brother, a sister, a friend, a colleague, somebody who picks us up and pushes us forward when we're really down. And, well, I have some of the kicks me forward.

Well, that's what you need sometimes, right? And TR was no different. I mean, he's up there on Mount Rushmore. He seems kind of, I don't know, inaccessible. He's, he's larger than life. He can't, he can't meet these feats of strength and adventure and accomplishments. And I think what, what I appreciated it in doing this research and building this library is that he's, he's a little more like all of us than we realized. And maybe that's a good thing. It makes you think you can do that, too.

You know, he had struggles. He had pain. He had setbacks and there was an infrastructure. There were people there to keep a moving and make the right decisions and keep fighting for what he saw

“as right in the world. And, you know, that's what I think the ultimate lesson, he, he never”

deferred a problem to tomorrow. Right? He talks about this, especially with regard to conservation. This is for our children and our children's children for all those who will come after us. Well, there are a lot of problems that we're kicking the can down the road on in America today. And I think what, if you can take one lesson from this person who attracts Republicans, Democrats, and independents alike, it's that you've got to sit down and deal with the problems that are in

front of you or they are just going to reverberate through the generations. It's one of the big lessons of his life. Man, you're the right man for the job to run that library. Hopefully, though, thank you. You chance to have like a, you know, when you walk around, there's like, an old man like doing interpretive stuff. That'll be nice. That's my future. Yeah, like dress up like TV or back like you're like, just wander around and

you're going to see the story about 19. Well, we're trying to, you know, believe we're, Dr. Renella about it's way back in 2026. If you just want to know, say, 20, but President Renella, as well. I saw it coming before you did.

like, you know, I mean, I don't know, I mean, to have the book and to have the position and just

be like, bring all that. And the moment. Yeah. The moment I think I didn't necessarily anticipate. No, but I mean, it's, yeah. I mean, I think we could all use a little more TR right now. You're given, you're bringing it right now. I'm going to bring it. And I think the nation needs it. I think the world needs it needs reminding of, you know, you just do what you can with what you

“have where you are, you know, uh, the, uh, the best thing. You know, in a moment of decision,”

the best thing you can do is make the right decision, the next best thing is the wrong decision, and the worst thing is nothing. You know, like again and again, his philosophy just reverberates in a way in the arena. I mean, in one of the special experiences of the TR library is going to be surrounded by that incredible paragraph in the arena speech, you know, it is not the critic who counts. And, and it's 15 feet tall. It's nine feet, you know, it's, it's nine feet high. It's

you, we're going to have different voices, different, you know, one time you walk in, it'll be president Clinton or Bush. And the next time you walk in, it'll be, you know, Leonardo DiCaprio or LeBron James and, and the whole idea is that, you know, you then are asked what, what do you want

“to dare greatly to do in this life? You know, this one chance that you have to make a difference”

in the world. What do you care enough about to commit to action? So, I, I've always thought that,

you know, the past really teaches you about the present in order to make a better future. And so, if we can look back to TR, you know, and understand a little something about our world, and maybe just maybe bond together and make something better than this will all have been worth it. You know, this is really inspiring, too, because, like, me and Randall have been really struggling with whether we want to take on the task, trying to learn how to make gas station hot dogs

a deer meat. And sometimes it seems too daunting. And you're going to do it. But after hearing this, do what? Be the difference you want to see in the world. You've got to be the man in the arena. You know, this past six years just came to full for wishing. Yeah. That you can get deer meat hot dogs and gas stations is it's not what I envisioned in 2019, but here we are. So, day one, we figured out recipe out, you'll be able to be like,

that's me. I mean, we have a Wyoming-based company who is going to send us a sample. Oh, yes, we can just kick it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. They were just going to send us a renaissance. Those guys are inspired by your show. Turns out, Phil, was already summoning the arena.

“It's not on the market. It's just for us. They're fans of the show. So, are you going to be there?”

I mean, you'll obviously be present for the grand opening. I'm taking the head into the grand opening. What's the grand opening look like? Is there like a week of activity? I mean, was that pretty should stay? Should people put it on their calendar? Well, we, we have invited all living presidents to join us at the grand opening room. If they all join us, we won't need fireworks. So, that'll be fun. We, we, we, well, let's see. We've got Clinton, Bush, Obama, Biden, this is four, and then the current president five. There's a normal amount

of living presidents. That's about, I think I feel like that's about what it is. It's five to six. That's a great night. It's a short, a year, every year, going back to the beginning. And how many were alive at that time? Okay. So, we can blow you to Washington, zero. Yep. And then be like, you know, on-down one. Yep. Nobody came to his party. He was the only, yeah. I was invited all the presidents and all here would, but yeah. I see her since you, since you clearly, a assassination

conspiracy line every president from 1840 until Reagan in 1980, either died or was killed in office. 1840 every 20 years. So, every 20 years from 1840 to 1980, the president died or was killed in office. So, 1840, 1860, 1880, 1900, 1920, 1940, 1960. Yeah. And Reagan was shot, but did not die. So, I broke your ass. I'm going to hit you with a weird one. Okay. I'll start on to the writer, Selena Zito. Yeah. She just wrote that book,

Butler. Yeah. Well, you say, that's nice to attempt on Trump. She was like, she, we're talking

in it. And she said, he's not the first president to be shot in Butler. Oh, that looks, seriously?

Well, during the French, like, in the sort of like, out, like, in the complications of the French

He was shot like right in that county. So, I would not have put that together. That's good. I'm

“absolutely to get that one. And I believe, like, you could, the clothes that he was wearing,”

you could see where the bullets went through. I think that they were preserved. And there's a crazy story. And I'm like, just how close he came to being killed. That was in that county. They had had a meeting. Wow. And we come in and try to tell the French what's up. Yep. And they had a little meeting. And then they take off. And they sent an assassin in his wake. I think I could be screwing up. They sent an assassin in his wake to go take a potshot at him. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's how it went.

And that was a pound even for coming up for that. That's crazy. Yeah. So he's bad. Where's everybody? Where the hell's that big and state? Well, because you guys are out in the middle of nowhere. We're in the middle of everywhere, Steve. I don't need to tell you. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that.

“I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that.”

I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. But there's just not like a huge urban area with 30 hotels. So there are 700 hotel rooms in Medora itself. And then in Dickinson 30 miles away, there are over 3,000.

Oh. And there's camping RVs and camping and all the things that have now become very commonplace. We know where people are. Well, we're going to hit a max for sure. I mean, so if the president visits likely to be early in that week of activities, then we hope to have a couple of days where we're really focused on a lot of the people

that have made this possible. I mean $400 million raise. We've got a lot of benefactors.

We want to honor and we hope that July 4th will really be an incredible celebration a community day. You know, we want as many people as we can to get up and see the sight and see the museum. It's going to be pragmatically challenging, logistically challenging.

“But we're going to do again. We also, I think I want to take my kids out there.”

I think I'm going to be having. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's fabulous. It's it. If not for the opening, then shortly thereafter, because it's a great place to get out into the national park. You know, you got to touch off, go fireworks on. So we are going to do a drone show. We've got, so the folks that did, I don't know if you saw this grace

for the world on Hulu, they did an amazing concert. And then above the Vatican,

they recreated Leonardo da Vinci's works as well as several images in drones. It's stunning. Yeah. It's stunning. So we're going to do like a 14 to 18 minute life of theater Roosevelt in the sky as a drone story. Really? Well, yeah, because in part, we don't want to burn down the building that we just built. But July, July and in order to play, I mean, it's the place. I don't need to. So my four degrees. Yeah. I'm going to run. I'm going to start

to fireworks. I'm going to start. Let's see what happens. Hey, we get to do it all again. Maybe once fire another deer meat discovery. Yeah. I do want to go to that. I mean, I've been kicking around going to my head and thought about the possibility of bringing my kids, but I go reserve me a hotel room, man. You know, a guy, we can help you out. Dr. Renella, we'll make it happen. I'll sleep a broom closet. Man, it was great having you on. I was wonderful

to be with you. Thanks for all you do. Yeah. You're good. You're a good kind of gas for you just kind of know the story in and out. Well, I've been living it for six years. So, you know, it just I got it. I got a worn your listeners out there. They go down the TR rabbit hall. It's very hard to get back out. It's deep pit. It's deep. That's a deep fun. Well, again, everybody. The lives of Theodore Roosevelt, the women, the loves of what

I'm saying. The love like. I mean, I had like an an arguably, you know, fast. The loves of Theodore Roosevelt, the women who created a president Edward O'Keef writer, and what is the president CEO of Theodore Roosevelt presidential library opening soon. Thanks for coming out, man. Great to be with you. Great. Appreciate it. Thanks so much. Welcome to Meet Eater's 12 and 26 presented by Multimobile and on X maps. 12 of Meet Eater's

biggest and baddest hunts from the last year released throughout 2026. These are long form

episodes, so you get more of what you love. The first one up is my baited bear hunt in Manitoba.

part was watching a younger bear spend an hour trying to figure out how to get a creatively hung beaver carcass down from a tree. Check it out now on Meet Eater's YouTube channel and be on the lookout for more 12 and 26 in the coming months.