Bill Maher's Sleazy Behavior, Navigating Mother's Day Woes, and The Nerve's Book Giveaway Winners

It's a pomeranian building what I like to think of as a wood shed adjacent structure.

Hello, and welcome to your Friday edition of the nerve. I am your host, Morgan Callan. We have so much to get to today. Now, very recently, I wrote on my Instagram account, "Morning Callanan Writer" that we were considering reducing Bill Mars' sentence in

the wood shed, if not actually perrolling him.

“But he's in for life, I think, because he's back on his podcast, "Club Random."”

There's a woman in there who looks like she would really like to leave, and we're going to go through it together, because I was laughing out loud. Marlene and I were like, "Tex, we're flying back and forth. It's so good. Then we're going to read some trouble maker feedback and the winning five entries to

our celebrity scandal of all time, contest, those five winners are going to get assigned copy of Rob Shooter's debut novel. It's started with a whisper, and then later in the show, we're going to cover Mother's Day the nerve way." As mentioned on the nerve earlier, Mother's Day can be very difficult for very many of us

out here.

And it's never, ever discussed in the culture, okay, Meg Josephson, who has been on the

nerve before. You guys love her. We love her. Psychotherapist and author of the best selling book, "Are you mad at me?" Is going to be joining us answering your questions that you emailed in, and they are so

good.

“This is going to be so fascinating, and I think it's going to help so many of us.”

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“You weren't least like open pornographers, do I think we have had such a public pervert?”

As Bill Mar, he's just like an old pervert, and he's back, he's back in full form. Now, Marlena sent me this side by side yesterday, which had me on the floor. Let's take a little look at Bill and Marlena twinning, as she takes a look at his op-ed from last Friday's real-time. Marlena, in her stead muffin, T-shirt, oh my god, I've got to dig mine out.

Okay, Bill on his club random podcast, the dropped on May 4th, had on as his guest, a much younger woman, naturally.

Another her title is Sex Neuroscientist, that's a job description I've never heard

before. I mean, we'll talk about it later, Sex Neuroscientist and author Deborah So of the book, Sex Stinction, that's a great title, Sex Stinction, the decline of Sex and the future of intimacy now. When I went to go pull this video up to begin cutting it, along with Team Nerve, Marlena,

what came up was the following warning. This video is age-restricted, of course it is, of course it is now.

back, because you know how we would always talk about his layer, like the basement, at

club random, you know, like no woman should set foot in there without blue light and aluminum, because it's so dark and it was, you know, so like weird and like creepy. The sat is lit now, okay, by which I mean, it is lighter. You can actually see in there, there is something resembling daylight. The color palette is a little bit friendlier, but Bill will never change, never change

Bill, because he does this thing where his guest is seated.

“Again, remember, he films this thing in his house or in an outbuilding on his property.”

So he does this thing where his guest is already seated on the set and then Bill strolls into the frame and walks up to his seated guest, who then has to get up and greet him and shake his hand and really, it should be the other way around, okay. The guest should be walking out and he should be standing and greeting the guest and shake, you know, class is not a thing necessarily to expect from this guy.

I don't know what I'm thinking, because by the way, she asks, he asks her, upon greeting her, hey, by the way, when you were on your way into the set, onto the set, did you see my sex doll in the bathtub? Oh my God, he says it's a sex doll of Whitney Cummings. Okay.

Now, Bill is going to watch, watch Bill's encouragement, nay and treaty toward his guest

“and his guest actively ignoring said advice.”

Here we go. Well, sit back and enjoy yourself. I'm excited to be here. Oh, good. I'm thrilled to have you.

Did you, by the way, see the sex doll in the bathtub and then the Whitney Cummings sex doll? Yeah, I was telling you a team, I love it.

Because you're the first sex neuroscientist we've had on the show.

The first one I've ever heard of in life, I mean, it's right on the cover of your book, sex neuroscientist, that's quite a title. Like, so if you're only listening to this, I'm going to encourage you to go watch this segment on YouTube because Bill is kind of like slouched and like then leaning alternately, he's leaned in towards her and slouched over and like kind of getting interpersonal space

and then he slouched his back in his chair and this woman remains Ramrod's straight and Marlene appointed something out that I did not catch, but she's 100% right. Ever so looks like she is trying to avoid touching anything, like like the arm of the chair. She remains in that position.

I would call it a stress position like she's a prisoner of war. She's maintaining a stress position for one hour and 50 minutes of airtime. Bill is going to ask his first burning question, I won't even paraphrase it. I won't even. Here we go.

I mean, that's really the whole thrust of your help on intended of your book is, you know,

“what's why aren't people fucking like they used to?”

Okay, now, this whole thing, him having on a sex neuroscientist, if this is even a thing because as he says, who's heard of this job description before, but an author of a book that's basically about, this is a societal phenomenon, this is like one of the, this is the first generation and recorded human history like Gen Z, that's just actively not having sex. And he, but he's really using what could be a very elucidating informative discussion

to just purve out in front of this hostage. Again, this is a prisoner of war situation, Deborah, if you need Teddy to round up his buddies and seal team six, I mean, he did attempt an extraction for Steadman. He can do it. Just let us know.

Just send up a flare. Now, Bill, what happens when Bill talks about this generation, not having sex, is that

he then circles right back to high school, Bill Mar, and college, Bill Mar, who could never

get laid in high school and watch him once again, he did this to Billy Joel. We covered this on one of our very earliest nerves. He went and interviewed Billy Joel at Billy's house is a state among Ireland.

disease.

And it's a scary diagnosis.

“And Bill comes in and he asks Billy, how's your health?”

And Billy starts answering in a very heartfelt way and making real eye contact. And Bill just turns his attention over to the table here where his weed and his cocktail are living. These are the things that really need tending to. It does it here again, watch, it's unbelievable, it's unbelievable here we go.

The wild thing too is not just our people not having sex, but they take pride in it. And they're saying like women are saying, we don't need men, we're fine on our own. And men are saying, the sex robots are coming.

We have our AI girlfriends, so we don't need women either.

And so they're actually taking this like a point of pride instead of saying, there's something really wrong going on here. And we need to fix this problem. Right.

“I mean, there is, yeah, you're right, there's, I mean, there were certainly always”

times when people were coming up. Because the big bottle of alcohol didn't fuck for whatever reason. I mean, if you had met me in high school or college, you'd have met, you know, I was, I was not in, well, I guess I was what they would call an insult now, because insult ends for involuntarily, sell a bit.

It certainly was involuntary on my part. He cannot stop himself, and I'm sorry, but like Bill Mark needs somebody on his team. He probably won't allow for this, but he needs somebody who can have real crisis talks with him. Like Bill, on your show, quit fiddling with your belt buckle and pointing your pinky

down towards your member, it's pervy. Hey, Bill, when you have an invited guest on your show and you ask them a question to which they begin delivering a very thoughtful articulate answer, maybe don't start making a drink and checking how much weed is in your cigarette case, because it's rude. And we can tell you're not really listening to her.

You're more concerned with making your cocktail, she can tell, he's not even listening. He's like, yeah, you know, I mean, I guess you're, I guess you're right, like he has to like cognitively catch up. Now, Marlene and I were talking yesterday about this segment, which she watched before

I did, and she said, you know, Bill used to word I've never heard of before, and I wonder

if you've heard of it, no, not Bill, Deborah did. Bill didn't, had never heard of it either, it's called hypergamy. I had never heard this word, and it's when people quote, marry up, we're going to get into that, into what Bill thinks, women who might be intrigued by him, see in him, you know, of course he thinks it's like a stepping stone into what I have no idea, I have no idea

because this is his favorite topic of conversation, porn and masturbation, and he says that porn and masturbation got him through high school and college, or did it, here we go. Trust me, no one knows better than I do, from my formative years when I was too shy and lame to get with a girl, it is a substitute for sex. To thank God, it exists masturbation, or else I would have just exploded, I mean during

my most horny years, that's all I was doing, was masturbating, or the whole time at Cornell. Cornell was a terrible place. Would you go to, would you be looking at it in class, or I'm just kidding? No, but this is what that some boys are doing today though.

“I barely had it in the looking, I don't remember getting, how did that I had playboys?”

I mean, that's what we had back then playboys, but I don't know, I wasn't, I didn't find it, I didn't have the money to go to the new stand, which didn't exist as I recall, and by what playboy and African New York know, I think I was doing it from just what I saw around me. Tell a porting in from the Paleolithic era is one billmark, who, you know, this author tries

to interject, and she's got something very relevant and alarming to say, which is that boys are looking at porn in class, and he just rolls right over that, and he's like, you know, I was stuck up in Ithaca, New York at like an IV or an IV adjacent, I don't even know of Cornell's an IV or an IV adjacent, but you know, he's like terrible place. It's an IV, Marlene is telling me it's a terrible place, and I'm, you know, newsstands didn't

even exist, then yes, they did bill, newsstands existed, and then he didn't even have the money to go buy a playboy, which he's going to contradict himself on in just a moment.

the time, and I believe it.

I believe it.

“I think he gave an interview once in which he said, like he barely cracked a book at Cornell,”

like he was just masturbating all the time, but he says just to what I saw around me, that was his stimulus, that was his input, just to what, not who, not the girls who, not the women who, no wonder girls and women kept their distance from Bill Mar. You can see this guy coming, I mean, just put the trench coat on, just put the hat on and the sunglasses on and just be your pervy self.

Now, Bill is going to discuss his porn consumption because America hasn't suffered enough.

This is all Bill's rage about his adolescence and his young adulthood, okay? He invites these women into his studio to make them suffer, and we've got other examples of this, and he's making all of us suffer. Here he is on how he consumes porn. Like any normal red blooded American male, I look at porn hub, but even that's fairly

recent in my life. I stuck with the magazines a lot longer than most people, because I was kind of afraid. If I go on this porn hub thing, well, they know, they're a cookie in there, can they come and say, and then, of course, they gave in, but that's really within the last 10 years, maybe even five years, so, but I see what's on there and it is astounding to me some of it.

Like anyone would be shocked to find out Bill Mar had an active subscription to porn hub.

“Bill Mar is also like a public member of like an LA-based sex club, you know?”

Bill Mar was a frequent habituate of half-ners playboy palace, whatever he called that place, which we now know from the women who escaped how filthy it was, like in every way, like even just physically disgusting, you know? So this is all gross, and because we must, we now must revisit Bill, this was eight months ago, so probably in July, explaining only fans to another one of his female guests on

club random, the 90-year-old legend, the class act that is Barbara Eden, telling her that she should pose nude for only fans, so purves like Bill can walk off to it, here we go. You know what? Only fans, right? You what? Only fans? What that is? Are you my only family? No, there's a whole organization, a whole website called "only fans." Oh no, I don't know about that. No? No.

No. Sit down. Okay. No, even deeper, I'm sitting even lower. You're coming, I don't know what this is like. This is coming, it's not coming, it's coming. Okay, well, I mean, it's a website that advertises as a place where people can do anything, show you how to cook or write poetry, it's women masturbating or showing their vaginas to

men who are paying them electronically to watch them, and it's very, very popular and millions of women. It's a big thing.

Isn't it always been there? No, not like this. I mean, there weren't millions of American

women who, or go on porn hub, there's just an endless amount of women who are making porn videos. He was getting off on embarrassing her, humiliating her. I consider that, at the very least, I consider what he just did there, abusive. I really really do. Now, here's Bill on visiting Larry Flynn's office, and he's going to discuss

he's going to use a phrase I have never heard before. I told Marlena when he said this, I nearly fell off my chair. Bill Marr on his favorite stroke books, which by the way, he would go purchase at the new stands that he just said didn't exist when he was a young man. You know, before the internet allowed him to fully purve out, here we go.

“I mean, because, and again, I think this is because I started at such an innocent place. I mean,”

you mentioned playboy in the same breath as pornography. I guess, yes, technically it is,

It's the term of porn. But now, it's, I mean, please, it's just, it's the tamest thing. It was just the girl next door and, you know, she's happy, she looks like she's happy, he's enjoying it.

“And there was no men in the picture. I mean, I certainly even remember from the magazine,”

era of the '90s, we're going back 30 years. And you could go to the new stand, certainly when I lived in New York. There was still new stands in the mid-90s when I started doing politically incorrect. And I lived in New York for a few years. And the new stand was, there was like dozens and dozens of porn magazines. I remember going to Larry Flint's office, and he had on his desk like all the, he had many publications beside Hustler.

And they were all like laid out on his desk very neatly. And there had to be 30 different brands. You know, jugs, and gentry, and shaved Asian, and, you know, motorcycle goes every sort of niche thing had its own, yeah, had its own magazine. And so like, you could go to the new stand almost every night and buy another stroke book.

First of all, that's exactly what he was doing with his time. He was going to the new stand

every single night. He just said it. And buying another stroke book, he says, oh, I went up to Larry Flint's office. And he, he had all these other genres of sub genres of porn. And he says, one of them was called shaved Asian. He's saying this to an Asian woman who is a guest on his set. And he's sitting there wearing sunglasses. So she can't really look him in the eyes, which is another offense. It's another form of humiliation. I don't understand why women go on his show. I really

don't, okay, Bill is going to continue. My God, I don't, I don't, I don't even think this woman's gotten a word in yet. We're almost 20 minutes into this interview. Here's Bill on how he likes what he calls benign porn. Here we go. I just like hot chicks. You know, I don't want to see the views. If I don't want to see the guy in it at all, very often it's just a girl acting

sexy for the first five minutes. And then the guy comes in. Once he comes in, I'm out. Like,

“you know, I don't need the guy in. I'm the guy. I'm the guy. I'm the guy. Who is this guy with my girl?”

Bill isn't Sean Diddy Cones. He's got no gay in him whatsoever. Absolutely not. He does not want to see men in his porn at all. It is a no. Okay, Bill. I just, I, I just, I have to reference our dear departed freezer meat. The, the escort for hire who made, who made himself known during the Sean Diddy Cones trial. And wrote a book called freezer meat about the scourge of male impotence. Um, it remains on my, uh, in my library for further consultation when Diddy's

released. Okay. Here is doctor. So again, you would, you would forget this woman has a doctorate because of this conversation, this, this, this monologue. She's being subjected to by Bill. Here she is on the dangers. Again, these, these are really important talking points. The dangers of social media, the andrethates of the world, the manosphere. You know, Bill will often have on his podcast professor Scott Galloway who's a very smart guy and who talks about this a lot. The

crisis of young men in America today and what social media and porn is doing to them. And he always

engages in a very smart, respectful way with someone like a Scott Galloway. What could be the difference here in Bill, uh, subjecting this guest to his dispositions on porn and the ways in which he likes

“to masturbate? I wonder, what could be the difference here? Could it be that this is a woman?”

Here we go. So they're putting out the idea that guys should have a hair because it's not easy to get a hair. Bill says it's not easy to get a hair. I'm like he's thought about it. Oh my god. Okay. So Bill then goes on to say that LA women in particular are the problem. LA women are the problem and this is where hypergamy comes in because in Bill's assessment, LA women are looking to level up by dating Bill Mar. Here we go.

The real problem is wanting the perfect guy. The real problem is I feel like this attitude and again, maybe this is just LA among women who you're not, you don't have that much to offer. You

You're not cool. Interesting. You're not that interesting. You're vapid. And there's a thousand

“million checks out here just like you. And you think you deserve like the the upper echelon”

kind of guy read a book. Okay. So that's Bill. Using the word checks. Again, teleporting in from the Paleolithic era. That is so outdated. And he's ranting that all these girls in women in LA are trying to level up to the likes of him. But they they crack a book before you dare to approach the great Bill Mar. Maybe if Bill wasn't on porn hub all day long looking at influencers on Raya, you know, if he had any interest in a woman who wasn't like Al Pacino's sloppy seconds

or like a series of black hookers, like the only people who what would you call it hyper mega? Like what would it be? Like hypergamy, hypergamous, would it be hypergamous? I don't even know if that's a word. But the only women who would be engaging in hypergamy by getting with Bill Mar would be his beloved black hookers. That's it. And that's all. Speaking of here's Bill's take on the difference among herums versus porn stars versus hookers. Here we go. As long as you have

that idea in your head that this exists, this this harem of hot women who were just there to

“please you. And you know, that's what I mean, foreign girls. They're just like hookers. They're trying”

to make you come, you know. That's their sole purpose. That's their sole purpose. And they're good at it. And it would be impossible for any woman or little reading group of women to live up to that. To live up to that. As if that is something that women should aspire to as our highest calling. This guy, at least at least they're dying out. I would like to think this kind of guy is dying out, you know, to paraphrase Chris Rock. He's like a beta max. You look at a guy like that and you're like,

"This don't make you?" Okay. There is however one woman, one woman who does impress Bill, one woman who might be in Perry, Madam Pause, who may have been struggling with substance abuse issues since

“the age of seven when her mother dragged her to studio 54, who he drinks alcohol in front of”

in the morning. He says to her, "I love drinking booze for breakfast. I love it." And she says there's nothing better, you know. It is to weep. It is to weep. It is the one and only Drew Barrymore, Fielding what Bill clearly considers this great compliment on an episode of Club Random, not long after he humiliated Barbara Eden. Women of Hollywood find your respect, find your dignity and tell Bill Marta, fuck all the way off. Here we go. So you've minipised. That makes you

what 50? Yeah, Perry. But you look great for 50. I mean, you're still super-focable. It's all you can ask for at what? At 50, right? Is you just want to stay fuckable? Because Bill is so fuckable. Up next, trouble maker feedback and the winners of the nerves first, book, give away. Contest, we are back in a minute. Do you second guess the nutrition, taste and sustainability of the

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We are back. Now, for today's troublemaker feedback segment, we are going to begin with Paul from New Zealand's latest art. This is a rendition of Blake Liveley who dominated headlines

over at the nerve this week. And Paul, this is amazing. His copy over this rendition is her dress

looked like tissues after I take makeup off. Did Pam say that? You got a lot of snowfall. We love you. We love you. Okay. We are going to announce our winners of the Rob Shooter Book of the Way. And I know Rob signed five, but I'm going to ask him to sign five more. You guys submitted so many great ones. This was a really, really, really hard selection to make. You are all winners

“as you know. And one other little editorial note, we at the nerve have got to thank”

Murray's cheese, New York City's own Murray's cheese, who designed for our pet gala, a bespoke cheese

plate. Teddy loves cheese. It's his very, very favorite. I can get him to do almost anything with cheese.

Except fine sediments remains. But anyway, we want to thank them very much. We are so grateful. Now, on to the best celebrity scandals of all time, I would like to submit the tragic and still unsolved disappearance of Natalie Wood. Well, she died. Her body was recovered. The events of November 29, 1981 aboard the splendor, the boat, she and Robert Wagner had. It remains one of Hollywood's most perplexing mysteries. How she ended up in the dark Pacific and drowned. This was

a woman who was terrified of the water. With only her husband, Robert Wagner, actor Christopher

Walken, and Captain Dennis Davern as witnesses. You absolutely, this is one of my favorites of

all time, Mary Ann. You are a winner, a troublemaker, not from Australia entering with something a little less obvious and more enduring. I love this. This didn't even occur to me. Lance Armstrong. For years, he wasn't just an athlete. He was a narrative cancer survivor. Come back King, relentless, disciplined, untouchable. Also remember for a hot minute when he was running around with Jake Jill and Hall and Matthew McConaughey. And everybody was like, "What are those three up to?"

He didn't just win the tour de France. He owned the story around its sponsors, media fans. We weren't just watching dominance. We were buying inspiration. Live strong, right? Then it all collapsed.

“A slow grinding exposure of something far more unsettling, not just that he doped. And I believe”

also had like entire blood transfusions. But that he enforced the lie. Silence teammates, whistleblowers were discredited. A whole ecosystem bending to protect a brand. And you wonder how we get a Harvey Weinstein or Sean Diddy Holmes look no further. Nat from Australia. You are a winner as a Gen Xer. This is another submission. It's hard to pick just one best of all time. I agree with you as there are so many O.J. Clinton Lewinsky. Millie Vanilli. That's a great one.

Somebody else wrote into about Ashley Simpson getting hot lip syncing on the SNL. She performed on hosted by Jude Law. An unforgettable moment. The most shocking for me was definitely tampon gate. You cannot be a future king Charles wanting to be reincarnated as a tampon to live inside another woman's privates while still being married to his wife Pascal. You are a winner another entrance from troublemaker Julian South Florida, a frequent writer in June 1995. British

actor Hugh Grant was arrested for Lude Conduct after soliciting sex from a prostitute named Divine Brown in Los Angeles. It was a mugshot for the ages. Hugh was dating and had been involved with for quite some time Liz Hurley who was an absolute bombshell. So it was striking. Hugh Grant literally picked up a street walker one night in LA and got a service in his car.

quote, "If I was reading it out of ten in terms of size and quality, I'd give it a six. I've seen bigger and I've seen smaller but his was cute troublemaker Julie. You are a winner. Stephanie Lane. You are a winner. Not only are you among the many who cited Liz and Dick. You noted that Joanne Woodward and Paul Newman's love story gave Liz and Dicks a run for their money. When Paul

and Joanne first met, they were married to other people. But this had shifted by the time they

started in my favorite movie of all time. 1958's The Long Hot Summer. The stories are fantastic, scandalous love is my favorite kind, mine too, especially when it lingers for a lifetime. Stephanie also gives us an answer to a question I posed on an earlier nerve. Like, who do you think was the, because I said a great celebrity scandal, you know, not to minimize if you're a believer, but Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene. And then I said, I wonder who the Rob Shooter of Christ's time was.

“Stephanie answered it for us. The Rob Shooter of the first century CE, after I think you mean AD,”

maybe? Anyway, was catalyst, KATULUS catalyst. I love this. You are a winner. A scandal that I think, another troublemaker did not get the attention. It should have, oh, it did back in the day. It did, but she has since reinvented herself and and, and kept her life quite quiet and private. How low rent, America's sweetheart Julia Roberts behaved back in the day, engaged to Dylan McDermott ditches him, becomes engaged to key for Sutherland. They make it almost

to the wedding day. She leaves him at the altar almost. And hooks up with Jason Patrick, who was key for his best friend. She and Jason were spotted on an airplane. I will commercial flight to Ireland. Okay. Next thing we read. Suddenly, she's met and married, lie a love it. Nobody even knew they were dating. And lie a love it was like a very, he looked like, she said she fell in love with him because he looked like Abraham Lincoln. And just in a

side, I know people that the conventional wisdom or the line on Abraham Lincoln is that he was,

he was really like, people used a word I do not like, which is ugly. I've always thought Abraham

Lincoln was very attractive. I guess it's true. It is in the eye of the beholder. Then she quickly divorce his lile and then she's up, she's next up with Benjamin Bratt. As we know, a rolling stone gathers no ma, no ma, she breaks up with Ben Bratt right after she won the Oscar. And she was on Oprah Winfrey in campaigning for her Oscar saying that she was so happy with Benjamin Bratt that

“she was, quote, drunk with joy. I'll never forget it. She gets that Oscar Ben's history. Then she's”

on to Danny Motor, who happens to be married. She met him on the set of the Mexican and Danny wasn't getting a divorce fast enough. His wife was named Vera. She goes out and is photographed by the Papps with a T-shirt reading a low Vera, which I guess was her spin on Aloe Vera. It didn't really read, but she got the guy. Julia Roberts walked. So Angelina Jolie could run. Leslie aka Mrs. Shackleford. You are a winner. I think this is number seven. The greatest celebrity scandal. I love

this was when Frank Gifford got caught cheating on Kathy Lee Gifford. The globe tabloid may have set him up, but he's still cheated. It was with an airline's tourist. That's what they were call back then. He had a reputation for being a womanizer. And somehow turned into a perfect husband and father, according to Kathy Lee, listening her Bratt to reach, that's Regis Filbin on live

“daily. That's what is the show that Kelly and Marcos now. This is true. She used to do this all the”

time. She would brag daily about her ideal life. It was insufferable. So many romanticized stories about how great her life was as a mother, wife to Frank, her singing career. Frank's career.

Her amazing children with wild, west names, Cody and Cassidy. It was too much.

Trouble maker Sarah, you are a winner. Hi, all my favorite celebrity scandal was Christina Crawford exposing her mother Joan Crawford for the physical abuse she endured, which even to this day is debated in Hollywood. The fact that it was actually an open secret among the Hollywood elite is shocking this troublemaker says, even Shirley Temple spoke very briefly about it. That I did not know.

denied it. This troublemaker says, I saw an interview where Christina actually said that she believes

“her mother killed her stepfather. I think he was the Pepsi executive. Yes, or it might have been Coca-Cola,”

but it's in mommy dearest where after that husband dies, Joan sits with the board who's trying to push her out. It's that famous scene where fade done away as Joan Crawford goes, "Don't

fuck with me fellas." Amazing. Christina said he was perfectly healthy and there was no reason

he should have had a heart attack. And since he was found at the bottom of the stairs, she found it very suspicious. Trouble maker, Laura Lee, you are a winner. Remember the hot minute in the early '90s when Wippie Goldberg and Ted Danson met on the long forgotten movie made in America and started dating, their relationship earned Ted a high profile and expensive divorce from his wife along with this moment at the Fryer's Club roast of his power and war. Not only did Ted wear

blackface, but he repeatedly used the n-word. He made jokes about their relationship. He referenced

“racial stereotypes, "I'm laughing because today this would get you canceled, and I think”

what'd be defended this." I mean, if it happened today, what'd be would take him to the woodshed. And top the performance off by eating a watermelon slice. I remember thinking what an odd pairing is what he was a proud black feminist and Ted seemed a bit of a mutton headed oath. I can't help but wonder why what he hasn't listed this photo is an autograph framed A by 10 for all or dedicated fans for bidding on that auction site as the Great Cindy Adams would say only in

New York, kids only in New York, trouble maker Deborah. You are a winner. Our last one, it goes to the Liz Dick Debbie Reynolds, Eddie Fisher, love quadrangle. When celebrities like Debbie Reynolds and Elizabeth Taylor passed away, it was an end of an era agreed, a fabulous

type lady who always put on their best face did their hair and make up even if it was a random

money and they were home doing chores or staring at their diamonds. Where has that desire to be so fabulous gone and why don't subsequent generations have it? We are doing our best at the nerve to lift it back up. She includes a great quote from Debbie Reynolds upon Elizabeth's passing. I never felt, oh no, this was before Elizabeth's passing. She said this to people in 83. I never

“felt better about bitter, about Elizabeth Reynolds told people I don't agree but I think she was,”

I think enough time had elapsed. A man doesn't leave a woman for another woman Debbie said unless he wants to go. That is true. The two remained friends. Elizabeth did broker a piece with Debbie Reynolds. When Taylor died in 2011, she left Debbie Reynolds a sapphire bracelet necklace in earrings in her will. I have will forever love Elizabeth Taylor who described the marriage as a quote "thrigan, awful, mistake, troublemaker, Sarah, you are a winner. Congrats to every troublemaker who is

going to be mailed a signed copy. Let's look at his signature of Rob's book. It started with a whisper. He signed it naughty but nice. Thank you to everyone who entered and a quick reminder to keep your feedback coming. Oh, if I could just mention very quickly, Marlene is going to kill me but there are two. Two Hollywood scandals that were not submitted and I wanted to bring to trouble maker attention.

The first Jack Nicholson learning after he sat for an interview with time magazine at age 37.

He was already a huge success. The time magazine reporter was doing fact checking and came to Jack with the news that changed Jack's life forever. They told him that the woman he believed was his sister was actually his mother and the woman that he believed was his mother was actually his grandmother and I have forever thought that this is the reason Jack Nicholson has had trouble with women and also he has a daughter named Lorraine who clearly is named after his real mother who he

believed for 37 years was his sister. Second Morgan Freeman who had a long time affair with his step granddaughter. Look it up, look it up. Anyway, a quick reminder, keep your feedback coming email me at [email protected] or DM me on Instagram at moring. Call a hand writer or at the nerve show. Remember to subscribe to the nerve's sub-stack that is our weekly email of bonus

We are going to have a nervous conversation about Mother's Day. We will see you in a minute.

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We are back. Now in the fall we had a great conversation about how to navigate difficult family dynamics during the off intention filled Thanksgiving and Christmas season or Hanukkah whatever your holiday is and to help us through that was Meg Josephson, psychotherapist and author of the best-selling book are you mad at me which I cannot recommend highly enough the subtitle how to stop focusing on what others think and start living for you and we thought who better to talk to you now that

Mother's Day is coming up you know it's often marketed as just a very very happy love filled hallmark holiday but for many of us out there it can be a much more complicated day with very complicated emotions we asked you guys for your questions for Meg you gave us so many great ones and she is here with us to give us her insight and expertise Meg welcome back to the nerve. Thank you for having me I'm so honored and thank you to everyone that submitted questions they were so

thoughtful and vulnerable and really really soaked them in so thank you for sharing with us. Yeah I actually I sent them to Meg last night and this morning so that she could really sit with them before so it wouldn't be you know sort of off the top of her head brilliant as she is

high-mourine and Meg I've always been very close with my mom my dad was extremely abusive to my

sister and me and I always felt protected by our mom um after having our own kids we have for my sister has three we've realized that maybe my mom wasn't as protective as we thought it's been really hard to sort out the realization that we would never allow our kids to grow up the way we did

“to this day my mom's entire life is focused solely on keeping my dad from exploding I cannot help”

fulfill resentment towards her especially since she is totally dismissive regarding any discussions about his behavior she has made it clear that if we can't put up with him we don't get to have a relationship with her I would love to hear Meg's thoughts on this mess Meg. This question and I think this topic just in general we're really hitting at something that is under disgust which is a unique form of grief and I have an entire chapter about this in our humanity I think it's chapter three

and it's it's not just grief isn't just when when we someone passes away it's also grieving what we didn't have a mom that didn't protect us a mom that prioritizes the dysfunction of a very disregulated father figure it could be any sort of relationship where we just have this gap

“this hunger this longing for something different and I think mother's day is very triggering for”

that specific type of grief um so first of all to this person I want to just acknowledge and validate

that realization of I really thought my mom protected me and I I idolized her for protecting

actually by staying she didn't protect me or by prioritizing his dysfunction she didn't protect me in the way that I needed that is so real I just think acknowledging and validating that

is such an important first step another thing just practically to sit with with this

with this type of grief is that little girl that didn't get protected by your mom from your dad is still within you and still scared still nervous still walking on eggshells still wondering if everyone's mad at her or like if your dad is mad at you and um she still needs protecting now and the difference is now you are the parent of her you are the adult of her and you get to take care of her in the way that she didn't get that care what does that look like what does that mean

“in relationship to your mom in relationship to your dad how does she need you need to be protected”

what does that look like now that's where I would start more and I'm curious if you have other other questions you make yeah I do I have a question my question to you is this big I think this is such a third rail as a as a cultural discussion because it's just a given you're supposed to love your mother you're supposed to do what makes your mother happy this this writer I feel is is she I don't even think she realizes she's going to be grieving or is maybe in real grief

it's very it's very difficult to grieve a mother who is still very much with us but you have come to the realization she wasn't the mother I needed I wanted or I thought that I had yeah and then what comes out after that is what do I do with this yeah maybe I don't want to be around

“my mother if she's going to give me an ultimatum if she's not going to acknowledge”

my father was abusive and she didn't really protect me yeah and she won't even apologize for it let alone acknowledge it and she hangs our relationship as conditional on me maintaining a relationship with my abuser and I often feel I maybe you know assuming a little bit more than I should but it's sometimes in these questions I feel like the real one that hangs over it is do I have permission to exit myself from this relationship either temporarily permanently from time to time

what do you say to that Meg yeah and that piece to of the fantasy the pedestal that we put our parents on as children is really important as kids we we idolize our parents because the

world would feel too scary if we didn't if we can't think of our parents as these amazing

or at least just one parent in this case perhaps it was your mom for believing that she protected you right oh she she's this she's this amazing protective figure the world would feel way too scary if you couldn't have that fantasy uh because if she can't protect you who will who's left to protect you um and so as we get older that fantasy starts to dissolve or they they drop from the pedestal that's a very it can feel very uncomfortable it can feel very scary

what do I think of her now who is she now how I'm rewriting this story or this belief that I that I

“thought I had of her and so I think that reckoning is a very important initial process”

before grief before acknowledging any emotion that's there and then yeah to your point the question that becomes okay if this is the reality of the relationship what do I need to be okay in this relationship what boundaries need to be put in place if there is some conditional thing happening in this relationship what do I need to be okay as my adult self because I know I'm no longer a child living in that home I'm no longer needing right you right be protected by these

dynamics I'm an adult now what do I need um that's that's always the first question

and I also think too it's important to say to adult children who have survived childhood such as these it's okay if your mother doesn't like it it's okay if she doesn't like you pushing back or saying I'm gonna sit this year out or maybe I'm just gonna send some flowers but I won't be visiting I've got other things to do and you know often you know this sort of psychological stranglehold can exist because that child within lives in fear of displeasing the mother that's right

like it once you do that so much of her power dissipates now we're on an even playing field yeah

“and I would even take it a step further to say prepare yourself she won't she won't like it”

that's exactly right she will not like it the reason is because if she was capable and if any parent for any situation we're broadening out here a little but it applies to this specific listener if if the parent was capable of causing that harm a lot of growth would have to happen for them to see what they did and take accountability for it and to be oh honey I totally understand thank you for setting that boundary that's not going to happen true expect this agreement expect

agitation simply because you're breaking the familiar script you're doing something new of course

it's going to cause some sort of friction it's actually a sign that you're doing something right for yourself yeah that's right that pushback is actually a sign okay here's another one thank you for acknowledging that not everyone loves their mother my mother was physically abusive passive aggressive hypercritical and downright mean to me not to the same extent with my two sisters I was the only one who stood up to her as a teenager now I am the one who has to be responsible for her my older

sister is across the country I don't think that's an accident my younger sister is an active alcoholic I feel guilty if I don't go and see her for Mother's Day Christmas her birthday et cetera

“megg this is the key part I get depressed for days at the thought of going there and sitting”

through her phony lovey duffy act she is in her late 80s so I feel like I have to do it I'm not sure which is worse the guilt and shame of ignoring the events or giving up my inner peace and sitting through it I think this is the question I mean to ask could you laser in megg on the guilt and shame of and the phraseology here ignoring the events I don't necessarily think that's the framing you want trouble maker see this oh she says I can use her name trouble maker

Cheryl from New Jersey make what is your advice beautiful question thank you for I think it's it's very resonant of there's this trope of being the good daughter and I think that's unique to daughters we are as women we have this we have this guilt around everything we do that we're

“never doing enough that we're never pleasing enough and I think it's really important to”

define here what is guilt guilt says I did something bad I did something wrong I doing something that is out of alignment with my morals or my values and so if you are feeling let's let's zoom out in this question if you are feeling depressed for days if by the thought of going seven times a year or however whatever the cadence is and you decide you know what I'm going to go three times that feels like a number that I'm I'm not resentful about let's just hypothetically right are you doing

something morally wrong with that is that a morally wrong thing that is happening I don't think so I think it's it's a no with you more a tuned thing so I think we take our our discomfort and we call it

guilt because we're seeing it through the lens of deficiency I'm never doing enough but I don't think

you're doing something wrong here by showing up in a way that allows you to do so sustainably because if I stop you there I also think there's something very powerful in saying you know what I'm going to skip it this year you know maybe for this trouble maker the number right now is zero maybe right now she just needs to take care of herself it's nobody's business who you do and don't see on Mother's Day yeah it's nobody's business what you did I had someone say to me how will I put this

you know my mom you and I were talking yesterday both of our mothers have dementia and so it's a very complicated Mother's Day when your mom is with us but not with us and I had an extended family member have the gall to ask me at a family event last year how often do you see your mother you know what my answer was internally none of your mother fucking business yeah yeah anyway go on no it's it's so it's so true it's so complex and it is no one's business by the way and I really want to hit something home like

know there are a few questions maybe we'll get to have it this showing up in the body as illnesses in some ways which is 100% real and just permission to do what your body is needing to do and

guess what you can always change your mind it's just that you're you're making a decision about this

moment in time you're not making a rule about the rest of her life and your life and so

“my my last point on this I think is it's not really we're not being compassionate if we are”

showing up but seating with resentment yes yes that's not being a compassionate person but being compassionate means being honest being honest of I if I go I will be pissed off at you at myself my body will take the toll who who is that four exactly you know as opposed to maybe taking some space regaining your strength and going back if and when you decide I'm actually I want to I'm going

because I want to be going that there's a difference there I agree yeah and the other thing I would say

as as you know child of a difficult home you know I think a through line through all these questions a commonality is is being raised by perhaps a very selfish individual yeah and I would I would encourage these trouble makers to to reframe it as well what would my mother do you know my mother was selfish she put her needs before mine when I was a child I think that kind of structure can give you permission to go you know what I'm going to be selfish today I'm going to be selfish you know

just just my thought okay um now this one okay this one's great what do you do Meg when you see your mother verbally and physically abuse your aging father my mother has become increasingly rageful and my father is the recipient during Thanksgiving a few years ago she got mad at my dad and physically pushed him in front of all of us if this happened in public what is going on

behind closed doors she is so stubborn she will never admit that she is wrong or has a mental

health issue what does a daughter do oh well let's just acknowledge that is such a hard position to be in my therapist brain immediately goes to of course the more practical of elder abuse and when it's appropriate what reporting elder abuse and you know there are systems and structures that exist in supporting you through that and what what to do and when to call someone when that is happening so I just want to first name that those resources exist I think the

the underlying question I think here is tell me if you are pulling us out as well I could be off is what what what can I do to fix this or change this in some way or can I can I change what she

“is doing what are you pulling what are you pulling out is the that's what I'm pulling out I”

she wants to protect her father she literally says in here I wish I could put crushed up Zannex Zannex in her coffee pot to help her it's that bad I mean I think you know adult children realize these people when they're in their 80s they're not going to change you know you're not going to rehabilitate the mother or talk her down or anything and then I think there's also a fear of well if you get the authorities involved the situation could become even worse where are you

going to put the father yeah you know it's it's so I think that she's really struggling to protect the father without further enraging the mother yeah yeah and I think that safety planning creating a safety plan for your father uh that can look like a lot of different things that can look like how are you going to involve yourself if it escalates um are there are other people that you can call on so that you don't have to hold all of this by yourself so that you can keep your your

father safe um in these situations and that to go just that to that emotional level it is so hard let's assume this isn't going to change let's assume mom's not going to change let's assume this is going to continue what needs to happen for you to feel like your father is safe and that you can sleep a little better at night without having much context about this person's life it's hard

“to say what that looks like but uh I think just safety planning in general is the most important”

and highest priority step here and Maggie you know what's interesting and sort of unspoken here is this this clearly is the dynamic the father is actively not looking to leave he seems not to be

somebody else for a little bit so I think part of it too has to be making your peace with the idea

that these are grown adults that this is the dynamic of their relationship sick though it may be that people in abusive relationships often don't leave for many reasons and maybe you just have to

“let yourself say whatever you feel you need to say to your father to let him know that you are there”

for him but that really you are extremely limited in what you can do yeah yeah and that can be that can be offering him a number to call a resource to call and saying I like you said I'm here for you is there there's a there's a tough dynamic happening here where you can't fix this you can't change you may not be able to change this but you can be there in a way while you're also taking care of your sanity at the same time you know yes okay I have one more question for you

okay it is all of a piece yeah I'm glad you're doing a mother's day show because some

moms are really terrible and should never have been moms my mother broke my heart she was emotionally

psychologically and financially abusive towards me which was strange because I was never good enough but I was also the golden child until Meg you're gonna your alarm bells will go off I said a boundary that I was no longer going to financially take care of her or do what she wanted I then became the scapegoat yeah there's so much I won't get into but I still can't make sense of how a mother could be so cruel I remember seeing a smirk on my mom's face when she saw me

sad and hurt because my dad was ill she actually had joy in my suffering it's still this is the

grief part right yeah let's all we're gonna I what I want you to talk about when I'm through with this last these last two lines is how to actively grieve a mother who did not mother you properly

“and and and and and I think you're also grieving for yourself truly she says it still makes”

me sad to think about and I wish I had a loving mother I'm curious about what Meg recommends for healing what some call the mother wound yes oh I just want to be with this listener and validate that hunger for a mom and I say it like this and I talk about it in my book as well of this feeling of I want my mom but not my mom I want I want my mom but it's it's it's not how it looks like I just want that a mom that is so loving and we'll take care of me and cares about my pain

and my suffering as this as this listener described I think the the rational brain wants tells me it says what are the steps how do I grieve what's the way to grieve and just by acknowledging that there's a gap at all that there's an I want my mom gap that that you didn't receive the love and care and protection that you deserved that is everything as an initial step um if we can't have a parent that will acknowledge our pain the least we can do is acknowledge it within ourselves

acknowledge it to that younger and still present version of ourselves I believe you your pain matters

“you didn't deserve that think words what what does that little person inside of you need to hear”

and with grief and I talk about this in this chapter as well comes anger and anger comes along with it yep they're they're cousins they're they're related in some way sisters whatever uh anger says that wasn't right that wasn't fair that was unjust and it's okay if in your grief processing anger also comes up allow it to it's okay you're allowed to be angry it's safe to be angry now think many of us witnessed anger and very explosive ways reactive ways so we think I need to be a good

girl good girls aren't angry you can be angry it's okay it's safe to be angry um it's healthy it's sometimes a very healthy reaction and the other thing you're saying about this which I love too is that these emotions are so unpleasant often that we want to just override them shove them down

you just have to say to yourself I'm going to feel terrible for the next few days or weeks or

months however long it takes but I will get this is this is the way I'll get through it and to the other side where I can then logically think to myself what is best for me in going forward with

“the parent who was lacking beautifully said and I think we often want to jump to that acceptance or”

compassion even for that parent or for ourselves and we can't until we look at that grief and look

at that anger and allow it to be there because it's not just present-day anger it's all the anger

“we weren't allowed to feel growing up and all the pain and fear we had to shove down because we”

had to be the parent in the room we had to be the the good easy one let it let it be there now because it wasn't allowed to be there before Meg you got to come back for Father's Day

“all of you got to come back a lot of trouble maker questions thank you so much thank you for”

having me really appreciate it we'll see you soon thank you bye bye that does it that does it for a Friday edition of the nerve and any of you out there who are dealing with this around Mother's Day we truly hope that segment lightened you up just a little bit it's all going to be okay come back and see us tomorrow for a super fun mini nerve that drops on YouTube at 10 am Eastern if you haven't already go check out our sub stack our weekly email at the nerveshow.com be

short to subscribe plus nerve merch go grab something for yourself or pick something up for a fellow trouble maker at shopthener.com we will see you tomorrow for the mini and then again next week

back on Tuesday right here at the nerve where you will never guess what we're about to say next