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Imagine you find an old alchemy book. An inside says something like, "Take our fiery dragon that hides the magical steel in its belly, with our magnet, and mix them with Torid Vulcan." These might not seem like real instructions that someone could follow. And yet, some researchers are trying to recreate how comest work hundreds of years later. What they've found is that there's actually interesting science hidden away behind some of the bizarre metaphors in
these old texts. That's this week on the unexplainable podcast. Chances are your favorite websites used to depend on Google for traffic and money, but that's not really working anymore. Now publishers are scrambling for new lifelines. Neil Vogel who runs people in says his company figured it out a couple years ago. You would think given what everyone said about us that we would be the guys that would be doing the
worst now. We're kind of the guys doing the best now. I'm Peter Kafka, the host of channels the show about tech and media and what happens when they collide. You can hear my conversation with Neil Vogel now wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Episode 388-98. ProSack was introduced to the US market. Depression for me is like having a huge dick. It's just something I've learned to live with.
“Welcome to the 38th episode of The Prop G Podcast. What's happening in today's episode?”
We speak with Meredith, Copet Levian, CEO of the New York Times. I'm a big fan of Meredith. She's a great job there. It's not an easy cut. I don't know if you know this. I was in the board of the New York Times and being a CEO is a shitty job because 50% of America hates the New York Times. It's also in a business. It's just not a great business. They do it better than anybody, but it is long-form journalism that's fact-checked. It's just
very expensive in a shitty business in the world of Google. In Facebook, the Meredith has done a great job. Anyways, we discussed with Meredith the future of media, the impact of AI, trust, polarization, and the evolving role of journalism. So with that, here's our conversation with Meredith Copet Levian. Meredith, where does this podcast find you? I'm in Washington, DC today, which is unusual for me on a Tuesday coming to you from the
Washington Bureau of the New York Times. Actually, let's do that as a jumping off point because it's kind of a tale of two cities in terms of the times in the Washington Post. The times, this is kind of the mother of all softballs, but it's true. The
times just posted a strongest year on recent memory. 13 million subscribers, you're
revenue approached with revenues approaching $3 billion. Meanwhile, the Washington Post is laid off around a third of its staff. And it seems that generally speaking, legacy media
“companies are in a bit of a crisis mode right now. And the times is, I think on any”
objectionable measure or objective measure, what have you done right or what do you think is working that's not working at other legacy media companies? That's a big one to start off on. Let me, let me start by saying, you know, I'm rooting for all high quality independent journalism. I think the post is still doing plenty of high quality independent journalism, particularly original reporting on big important topics. And there are
number, number of outlets doing it. You know, I can talk to you about what we are doing when I think has gone right so far at the times. Probably the the biggest and
most important part of the story of the results that you just described is that we
have made a sustained and very deliberate investment over a very long period of time in original independent journalism. That's in journalists and in, you know, the support
System structure around them to make sure they can do extraordinary work.
the largest newsroom in the history of the New York Times. Now it's 2300 people. We've three thousand
total journalists and content makers at the times and they are pursuing and it just an extraordinary range of coverage. You know, things that are of great civic and geopolitical
“consequence and also stuff that's just deeply relevant to people in their personal lives. And I think”
you know, that the times has invested sort of throughout its history and that and recognizes that that's, you know, where where the value is is most arrived and that's the thing we do best in terms of long-term value creation. I'll add to that that we have had a very clear strategy that we've been out now for, you know, in some ways multiple decades but
I can at least speak to the last decade and we've given that strategy to be the essential
subscription to curious people everywhere. You know, we've given it the time and the space and the resources to play out and I think we also have a long history of using tech and format innovation to make our work more more accessible to people. So I think all those things are working and I just want to say and we will be, you know, hard at them for years to come. I mean, it's not that this is a high quality independent journalism is a hard business doing the kind of work I
just described is hard work particularly the journalism part of it and you're going to, you know, I will be talking about the deliberate investment in that and the fight to keep doing it for years to come. Where do you, so you're the CEO of a public company and public investors want growth? What do you see as the biggest avenues for growth for the, you know, times company?
I always say I think our best days are still very much ahead of us and I say that is the CEO of
a company that's been around for 175 years. Growth, we see growth in news and in our lifestyle products and I hope we get a chance to talk about those too. We see growth domestically and internationally and we see growth in an opportunity to take so much of the extraordinary work we are doing and push that work into new formats and modalities where lots and lots of people are getting their information and particularly this year video. We are very, very focused on making the times,
so take us some time to do it but making the times as preferred a brand for watching the news and the other things we do as it is for reading and listening to it. So, you, my understanding is you have sued several AI companies at the same time. You are, I've just signed a deal with Amazon. How are you, what is your strategy and approach to AI? Yeah, I would regard the two things you just said and forcing our rights and court and also doing the deal we've done with with Amazon as
kind of of the piece. The idea here is this is a business that is grounded in making high quality original inventant journalism and other kinds of content that is intellectual property and copyright law protects that intellectual property from its use by others without our permission
“and without control over our work. So, that's what the lawsuits are about enforcing the rights”
around our intellectual property and I'll just say there. The companies that are making the LLMs are spending in many cases hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars on things like talent and power and compute all the stuff that goes into making models and one of the things that goes into making models is high quality information and you know we'd like to see them pay a fair wage for that as well and at the same time the time it says a long track record and history of
you know forging partnerships and doing deals with companies where we feel like we're getting sustainable fair value exchange for our work and where we have control over how our work is used
“and where it comports with our strategy and that's what you've seen us do with Amazon.”
It strikes me that so there's essentially two or three LLMs that dominate the market and there are just a ton of media companies that they're crawling or I would argue,
Hijacking their information would the times be open to either participating i...
similar to what the music artists have done that demands or speaks with one voice because one of the flaws I see in the ecosystem merit is that each media company has a tendency to overestimate its importance in the ecosystem, recognizing that no one company is indispensable
“for alphabet or meta or in this case open AI. It strikes me that and I remember arguing this”
20 years ago at the times that you shouldn't go it alone you might get 10 or 20 or 50 million
dollars for so one of the LLMs are companies can brag put out a press release saying that they they have a licensing agreement within our times company but it's in some is in part of the problem the companies including the posts the times condon asks Nikay you know and name all these media companies newscore that you guys just don't play well together and as a result having created a coalition to push back on big tech which is absorbed so much of the market capitalization
and attention that used to be the domain of those traditional media companies are quite frankly I'm saying this is as an ecosystem that you're part of aren't you guys the perfect enemy and that as you don't get along and form coalitions. So many questions in there and yet no let me
“try and get it at least a few of them the first thing I want to say is I think everyone”
running a business doing high quality independent journalism doing original journalism
thinks of the other companies doing that sort of first as in the same pursuit and thinks about
protecting that that pursuit and and I want to say as it relates to the enforcement of our intellectual property rights we you know we have taken the actions we've taken to benefit the times but we've also taken them because we think we've got a really strong we've got a really strong story in terms of how much intellectual property we have that long we've been doing it how much of it has copied written and we we think that that is quite important to how things go from here
and we thought we had a big opportunity to do something here that was important for the times but also important for journalism more broadly and important for society in terms of you know they're being a continuously sustainable model for high quality independent journalism and by the way over time probably important for the LLNs because the LLNs need high quality information sort of coursing through there their their models as well for the models to actually be be good so that
that's the first thing I would say and then I would also say if you look at the issues that kind of
anime collective interest in the industry and I mean sort of small sea collective we are all many of us are focused on the protection of you know the rights and safety of our journalists and we go at that together when the when America was leaving Afghanistan the times worked with a number of news organizations who you would consider close competitors to and to help get people journalists and the people who supported them for 20 years safely out of Afghanistan and when we think about
defending our the rights of journalists to do their work in an unfettered way you see a lot of support coming out from other organizations so I don't I don't totally agree with you on the characterization of you know we're such enemies that that we can't do things together and even having said all that I do think that every company's intellectual property rights really matter and companies should
“be in a position to control how their content is used and I think individual companies having”
that control really really matters okay so paramount studios Warner Brothers Pictures New Line Cinema DC Studios Miramax CBS the CW CNN HVOTBS TNT true TV cartoon network adults from Discovery Channel HV TV bear with me food network travel channel animal planet TLC investigation discovery ID science channel and the Oprah Winfrey Network and the Magnolia Network and addition to paramount plus HVL Max discovery plus CBS Sports TNT sports bleach report
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Discovery paramount international channels and then a variety of production c...
about to be under the control of one family the Allison's your thoughts wondered where you were going with that listen I I don't have much to say you know I run this company and I said I've been doing that for a year and I kind of later I did what would you say to the industry and the DOJ right now do you think this is good for the media ecosystem
“to have all these brands under control of one family look I think I care a lot about work”
that is kind of first human-made creative expressive work that drives our culture and that includes
news and includes the the work of all the companies you just named and I am for whatever conditions are going to allow that work to flourish you know what what the control structures are who sits at the top of them I'm sort of you know not spending a whole lot of time thinking about that you know I do care a lot about news in particular in that context and I am for a very healthy market of other news competitors and that's good for the times good for journalism
obviously good for the public I'm not sure what to take from that you this this consolidation were you or you just think it kind of plays out the way it plays out I think what I'm really saying is I have not spent a whole lot of time thinking about nor is it my work to think about how
“that will affect the times business I am intently focused on how the times can keep hiring journalists”
to applying those journalists in ways that help them get to the best work and making the other extraordinary lifestyle products we make and you know that's that's where my focus is I'm sure there are other people at times including our media reporters who will have a lot more to say about that we'll be right back after a fake break what's up everybody it's K.M. Hayward your Steelers captain and host of not just football and this week we brought on the legend Lil Wayne is in the
building greatest rapper alive certified football head and now running his own sports agency young money sports we got to know how it started what the vision is and how Travis Hunter ended up choosing young money we went deep in the football the packers the draft coming the Pittsburgh and I L and what it really takes to build an athletes brand from the ground up we talked music
“the Carter 6 what's coming next and stories you have never heard before and we got into his legacy”
New Orleans cash money at 11 years old and 25 years at the top in what still drives him this one is different this one is special in Pittsburgh the draft is coming home rabbit ticket for came Hayward's draft party on April 23rd at not just football dot com and use code Mister Carter that is M R C A R T R for a pre sail discount and follow us on socials let's get it support for the show comes from pipe drive if you're running your business you know the deal
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objectives this charges and expenses this and other information can be found in the funds perspective at get vcx dot com this is a paid sponsorship one of the things i i use a i for the most is i use it i don't use it to write i find that i thought my next book i would just put in a very thoughtful prompt and boom i'd have my next book get a book out of it right yeah it's not and it isn't patting out that way i find that so far
it's kind of all ship no salsa that there's no real voice there it sounds like what it is
and that it computer wrote it but at the same time i do use it a lot for editing and for fact acting if you were to estimate would employment or the number of people will be not only just in New York times in history but other other big newsrooms do you think a i what do you think the impact of a i is because i i have generally found that it is it does while it doesn't replace the written word or your ability to write it it does in fact increase efficiency where what
are you thinking of back yet look what is the size of the newsroom right now where do you see it in two or three years so 2300 people in the kind of core newsroom working on what you think of is coming from the New York Times proper and then 3000 total including the 500 plus journals yet let it in the journals working at wire cutter and cooking and so forth so roughly 3000 people let me say i feel very strongly and again i run a public company and i say this to everyone who
will listen i don't think the sort of core you know that the work at the essence of what journalism has meant to do and sports journalism and shopping advice and high quality recipes
“and even the production of games i think that's like first and foremost a human endeavor you know”
buy humans for humans and i'll just say i don't think people talk enough about the idea that you know what is it that journalists do they reporters go out into the world and with expertise in the domain that they're covering they unearth new facts and they you know work with editors to to make sure they do that in his full way as possible and then they you know they bear witness to things sometimes and in very difficult circumstances they bear witness to important things
that are happening that the public should know about and then they translate that with sensitivity in judgment and a very careful professional process in a way that's meant to get people to understanding and you've got human beings like in all parts of that equation and i certainly think that technology including a i will help make parts of that to your point about who's going to what's going to help you write your book it will help make parts of that you know go better maybe
be more efficient but i don't think it replaces the sort of thing at the core that that we're
“doing that is certainly true for high quality independent journalism i think it is also true”
when you think about sports journalism you know you're going to send a bot into a locker room to talk to a team that's you know just gotten not made the tournament because they didn't win their their conference or you know i think we had we're starting to see what recipes made by AI that have not been sort of tasted and tested by chefs do and i could go on and on across
the New York Times portfolio so i i've real confidence that will find ways as we always have
to use technology to make aspects of the work even richer or or more efficient and maybe give time back to the human journalists doing the things i've just described but i absolutely do not believe there will be wholesale replacement if the New York Times come to be where to be accredited with any like huge strategic transformation that is you know the coming as market type of eight and nine billion which is pretty substantial the stock performance has been his been strong
what you're doing about it looks like two hundred to two hundred fifty million dollars a month and subscription revenue and seventy five percent of your revenues come from subscription i i would just if i put myself into your head it's like okay subscription subscription subscription
Revenue and what do you find is a really drives gets people to subscribe and ...
when you look forward what new channels and i'm gonna assume can you know continue to invest in
“a world-class newsroom all right let's assume that's a given 10 million digital subscribers at some”
point you're gonna have to have a board deck that says this is how we get to 15 million in the next five to seven years what are the areas and what type of new types of content do you think will drive and criminal subscriptions let me start by saying we are playing in really big spaces already
where hundreds of millions people spend time and that's news broadly defined and i always caution
people to say news is not just kind of more and politics it's it's science backed health and wellness and it's culture and it's lifestyle and it's how we live today and so it's so many other business it's tech it's so many things it's it's what will be in fact to be a i b on companies and and jobs so news is a really big thing that has persistent demand and it's there's kind of nothing else like it in terms of bringing in new audiences every day especially in big news moments
“so that's in a giant space and then let's go through the other spaces sports got i think your”
sports fan i do listen to you and i think your sports fan we've got the largest sports newsroom on earth with the athletic you know more than 500 journalists covering every major team in league in the united states and european football and sort of growing into a number of other things sports at the giant category we're in really early days we've been the athletic for for four years so lots of running room there we've got 11 games now tens of millions of people play some
vargames every single day you know it games has done extraordinary things for the times and i would just say you know we since we you know we we had crosswords in the mini and spelling b and then we acquired wordle and then after we acquired wordle we may connections and strands which are two of our biggest games and we've just put out two new games we've got pips and now we've
got our first multiplayer game in crossplay so like that is an engine where there's still tons
of running room and that keeps giving in i often say you know wire cutter the shopping advice the wire cutter does you know human tested product reviews where there's like a professional process that goes into how do you pick this is this is the right thing if you want the
“less expensive version this is the right thing if you're willing to pay more for it i think in”
all and cooking you know 25 thousand human tasted tested recipes i would say it's got for growth in every one of those areas we see real running room and often the work is how do we prioritize
to get to the biggest things first but i can tell you in every single one of those products there
are kind of ample places for wargrowth and then i'll just say all of those products are getting more visual they're getting multimodal they're getting more sort of video oriented and you and i both know that you just listed off a huge number of companies that mostly work in television or video they they make things that people watch and the more we can make the times into something that is cross the portfolio as preferred for watching as it is for reading and listening i think
the more growth we can have when you so i was with a dv producer this weekend and and they said that the chill that the ftc's aggressive actions against media companies and the president constantly interfering and issuing statements that this company should go away or this company should succeed or the secretary of war or the department of war stating that you know picking favorites saying that the elephants are doing a great job and others aren't and this producer said that the chill
has been pretty dramatic and that is everything they do now has to go through vastly more legal checks and quite frankly there are some things where they choose different words for fear that they're going to be sued by the Trump administration or be intimidated have you found do you sense this chill at the times short answer the times is not being chilled or cold or in any way shape or form coming off of the work of you know pursuing the truth wherever
may lead even when that is to an uncomfortable place for a subject for some part of the audience
Period my my longer answer is the encroachments on the independence of of new...
you know it's awful it's awful for the news outlets it's awful for society you know why why does
“the times cover the actions of the Pentagon and the military because it is our job to help the”
public hold power to account and to help the public understand if if the country is going to war or if if you know series of GF GF political actions are being taken why what is the context for those actions what are we to know about them that is you know we do that work not in service to our own interests we do it for the public as do other news outlets and I think any encroachment on that anything that makes it more difficult for for journalists to unearth facts and and get them
to the public is really problematic and I think that thing that doesn't get talked about enough is you know press freedom has been something it's it's not left right issue it's it's something that has enjoyed bipartisan support in this country for many many years and I think we have gone from a time when there was real institutional sort of reinforcement of the importance of a free press even from leaders who most definitely didn't like the way that they were covered I
think we've gone from that to having leaders and institutions actually do work to so doubt
“in the press that's what a lot of these actions are happening for their own interests and I think”
it's terrible for the country but are you spending additional resources on legal review to try and make yourself more immune the times has an extraordinary team of lawyers because of the need to protect protect our press freedoms on behalf of ourselves and the rest of the industry because of what we talked about before with AI probably have more lawyers today than at any point in our history but I want you know that the thing you're really asking me about is just the reporting
change the answer is no well I'm not more interesting things are happening even if it was
I wouldn't expect you don't up to it and I see no evidence that there has been a show what I'm asking is is it increased the expense around legal review and ensuring you know when you have a target
“when you're talking on your back and an active shooter you have to spend more money on security”
you know the example that I think sort of demonstrates how much we spend or how much goes into this is you know we've had people with the war in Ukraine is now in its fifth year we've had people there continuously the whole time some spending you know unbelievable amounts of time there and every time we put a reporter on the ground in Ukraine there are security experts there are translators there are logistics people making it so that as safely as possible and you can't
eradicate all the risks that person can do their job and if you think about any story line including the Washington story lines just making sure we have the right legal and editing support structure around our journalists it's a huge part of how the time goes about its work and yes we are spending lots and lots of money and effort resources on it no doubt we'll be right back support for the show comes from LinkedIn it's a shame when the best need to be marketing
gets wasted on the wrong audience like imagine running an ad for cataract surgery on Saturday morning cartoons or running a promo for this show on a video about roadblocks or something no offense to our general listeners but that would be a waste of anyone's ad budget so when you want to reach the right professionals you can use LinkedIn asks LinkedIn is going to a network of
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there's a reporter named Emmanuel Fabian who's been covering the war in Iran for the times of Israel
Recently he got a ton of feedback about a tiny article he wrote but he couldn...
it was about a missile that exploded just outside the Israeli city fate shemmish. I'd appreciate it if you
“could update your article as an its current form it does not reflect reality. Someone wanted him to say”
it was a missile fragment instead of a missile weird because it was a missile not a fragment. If you could correct the site you'd be doing me and many others a great favor. Eventually the message has got more threatening. You have exactly half an hour to correct your attempt at influence you will pay the full price for irresponsible act. Emmanuel finally figured out why people were getting so aggressive they had bet money on how bombings in Israel would play out
on polymarket. After you make us lose $900,000 we will invest no less than that to finish you. Betting on the Iran war on today explained. We're back with more from Meredith. So I want to transition we actually ran into each other this weekend and we were talking about our our sons I have two sons we have one son 17 is our right Meredith. My son is almost 15. I'm sorry 15 almost 15 oh why you're in the thick of it. Talk to us a little bit about observations
on raising at 15 year old son and a digital age with all the obviously the obstacles.
“I mean what advice would you have for other mothers in your position with a 15 year old son?”
Well I'll say one of the first of all my son is extraordinary his name is J. J. He is a he's just like a winner of a kid he's a really kind person in his film told me for a minute that when I you know gave a speech to him it has permits. I said my son is the best judge of
character and goodness I know and if my son doesn't like someone it always makes me think twice
and by the way he likes most people but it makes me think twice because he's such a he's such a sensitive emotionally evolved human and I'm super proud of that and he's great communicator look I think I'm terrified by the amount of time he and his friends spend you know with their face attached to a phone and I've got a kid who's a force board athlete and so he is really busy he does not have time for one use of screens but if I could make all of it go away even in
that limited time he has I would he teases me that you know if he called me from a party and said there was stuff happened in the party that no parent would like he jokes that my first question would be did you give yourself more time on Instagram when you know you shouldn't so you know I
“really I think I've got a really sensible kid and we talk a lot about making good decisions as a”
teenager I think the the attachment to to the device that's always there and to the things that
happened on those devices and the algorithms feeding things to him that sort of matched the things they think he already likes I think that is a that of all the things going on in my kids life that's the thing I worry about the most what a surprise you most about like two or three things or I mean obviously being present but in this age any advice for for people I mean beyond the screens about parenting 15 year old boys I mean you have a very demanding career you you are not
in a 40 hour a week job and obviously a lot of benefit comes from that but how do you manage and and only that I especially think that look I still think a great deal regardless of how good the co-parent is that the majority of domestic and emotional labor still just happens to typically fall to the female in the relationship how do you balance the tension of trying to stay very involved in in a 15 year old boys life with what must be pretty serious demands of running a public company.
Yeah listen I will say my son is always on my mind sometimes that is frontal lobe and sometimes
it's somewhere in the subconsciousness but there is no hour of a day that I'm not worried about something that he's dealing with or thinking about the thing he's going to do that afternoon or you know wondering did I sign that piece of paper he needed to go do the thing I mean that that's just and you know I don't know if that breaks differently along gender lines but my experiences of mom is there is no moment when your children are not on your mind that that is my experience
look I have to work hard because of my demanding job to be physically present and then when I am physically in the same place with him to put my own devices away and to really be like looking him in the eye so that I am seeing him and hearing him I also think it's got you I wonder if you
Have this experience but you know I talk all day long and I'm the boss of a l...
so people sort of you know some number of people probably feel like they have to listen to me and
I have to work really hard at work to be a good listener I have to work even harder at home in an environment where I'm used to being listened to to make sure our sons are not impressed they do not be a part of them or give them a bone yeah yeah I mean he's and and nothing you know I tell everyone who listen nothing makes me feel more vulnerable more insecure more anxious than an important decision about my son or interaction with him did that did that go okay did I land with him
the thing I want him to take away from that and so I guess what I would say to you is making peace with the idea that there are no shortcuts and substitutes for that and that like often I'll say
to him like I's on mom I's on mom I'm saying something and sometimes he'll say something to me after
where he was like you didn't have eyes on me you didn't hear me say this thing and so a lot of it is just like how do I make sure I'm not just physically with him when the important things are happening but like that my mind is totally there where you said it really resonates is I'm at my
“most insecure around parenting in my interaction with my sons and for better for worse I think I”
get a mostly right at work and I not every decision but a lot of decisions when I'm speaking to their mom about what we do here you know how much agency do we give them not give them when do we discipline what does discipline look like what are the right incentives around the screen I have
never been less sure about any decision in any domain as the ones I make around my kids and I thought
that some instinct was going to wash over me where I would just know what was right and I have found that it's just not the case I couldn't agree with that more and it's it's interesting my my dad is gone he's gone he died with my son was just under two and he was a he was a teacher and he taught teachers and he studied early childhood development and I am like constantly sort of in my mind seeking what would my dad tell me to do I I've been my my my son's entering high school next year
so like this is the period where you're saying is this the right school and how will he fare there and there's and like if he plays all these sports there's a million things to talk about and I literally called my mom no one wanted to live near on Saturday and I was like I'm driving JJ to this place will you meet me and just have dinner with me and I literally sat at a bar with my mother on Saturday night and I said you're the only person who like I just know and it
typically has both of our best interested hard and am I like am I thinking about this high school thing the right way and just you know and that like just speaks to you I needed help and like the
“only part you know I have so much vulnerability about it and yes and then I think how must my”
kid feel right there's like we all feel so much vulnerability about our our family relationships and our most loving relationships and so I try and carry that into you know how I do discipline him or when I do ask more of him in some way I think about that too yeah we're we have boys that are exact same age we're going through a high school search now so we can't to play moving back to the US and we struggle with how much agency to give him such that he
feels invested but at the same time ensuring that he feels a sense of security this parents know what they're doing and we're not just flailing around it's just it's so hard to strike we're struggling with striking that balance in my view is I think kids want to feel seen and noticed but it's up to us to give him a sense of security that we know what we're doing and at the end of the day we're going to make these decisions for him you know just I talk a big game and then
he gets upset and I go to the other decision but anyways uh last question here Marith Jim and Janice for the time at some point like all CEOs you'll decide to hang up hang up your
“pan or your cleats or whatever the appropriate term is what would you like to do next?”
What a fun question um well listen my my shoes are like glued my feet at the moment so I'm not hanging them up right now um I feel so lucky I don't get to talk about this not I feel so lucky every day this is my job I've been in the times for almost 13 years and it's like it's unbelievable to get to do this work and to get to represent this newsrooms work and to get to do it in this moment when like to your earlier point everyone's been you know it's sort of
asked to pull their punches and the time just isn't doing that and to get to you know be a part of
Building these extraordinary lifestyle products that are you know our games a...
sensations like it just we're having a ball and that said I am pretty obsessed with the development
“of other people I think one of the great untold stories of the kind of last decade at the time”
this is just how many extraordinary leaders in news and in business have been developed and I think that's a really deliberate thing the company takes up very very seriously and you know hard to imagine that I won't continue for a long time to do things that are adjacent to you know journalism
“and/or sports because I think both of them makes society better you're not on the publishing”
side you're on the business side but if when they say your name and they want to say oh yeah what what is the one thing that you feel has been your biggest is an increase in subscription is it an increase in the newsroom what is quote unquote what would you like on your career tombstone
“if you will at the end of IT if it could only be one line what would you like it to be”
ensuring that we are in a position to always find and grow the widest possible audience for the
work of the New York Times and by the way every business question at the New York Times like the first and last answer is can we keep growing the engaged audience for the work that's it
it always comes down to merit is copid levian is the presidency of the New York Times
which is showing to us from our office in our nation's capital merit it's always appreciating a thanks to your good work this episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez and Laura Janair Cammy Reak is our social producer Bianca Rosario and Maris is our video editor and Drew Burrows is our technical director thank you for listening to the property pod from PropG Media.
