A Life Built on Debt Is a Life Built on Risk

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start budgeting for free today. [MUSIC] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the FairWins

Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by my good pal in co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz. We're taking your calls at Triple A 8255-225, Muhammad kicks us off in Halifax and Nova Scotia.

It's a fun place to go. What's going on, Muhammad? >> Hi, how are you? >> Good. How can we help today?

>> I have a question. So my grandmother is going to visit me on July now. I love her very much. There's more of a love question.

I know it's not one of the most smart and

ambitious in the May. I drive a really nice car right now. I drive a 22 Nissan Pathfinder, I paid all cash for it. Good. And now, when she's coming, I want to get an even better car just

because I would love to spoiler with an even better car. And it's a wise for me to sell this. I'm going to probably be able to sell this for $35 and buy around a $90,000 car. >> For your grandmother.

>> So I'm so confused for her to keep. >> Yeah, no, no, not for her to keep for me to keep. But just I'm making an impulsive decision because she's coming and I really want her to see how well I'm doing for myself. >> So you want to make a six-figure impulsive decision

to impress somebody who's there temporarily. So they think you're doing better than you are? >> No, I am doing. And I can easily, I could pay full cash for that car. >> That wasn't the question.

>> The motivations, what we're asking about. >> Oh, it's your grandmother. >> Yeah, I don't know. >> Did she actually care? >> I don't know.

>> All people in the world, NAMAS love the ranch. I was like, "I'm here, but I can't." >> I'm feeling she would appreciate having massage seats and, you know,

“and this like, how long are we living in this car for so long?”

>> No, no, no, no, no. >> Oh, my, my being very furry, I went and checked out the car yesterday and I told the guy I'd come around like five or six o'clock today and tell him if I wanted or not. >> What car is this?

>> It's a Yukon. >> What is Graham on a Yukon for? She's sleeping in the back, is there a mattress? >> Oh, no. >> It's also because, well, we're seeing each other once.

>> Are you single? >> No, I'm older, you Muhammad. >> I am single. I am 22. >> I kind of wish you were married

because your wife would slap you right now. >> She heard this call. >> This isn't saying. >> No, yeah, I know, it's insane, but my parents, like, when my grandmother comes, she's like a magnet.

So when she comes to North America, we're coming from all of her relatives. She's coming from India, to am I in my home country? >> Okay. >> And in their culture, is it big to like,

hey, look at how impressive my life is? >> It's not, it's not as so much like that. >> But how much do you make here? >> It's like, so I currently own two companies. I started one when I was 16 and one, I started six months ago.

The one I started, when I was 16 was a clothing company, which does really well for itself. It has not employees full time. I maybe go there twice a week to just look at stuff. >> We're gonna go.

>> But nothing, just to like the warehouse we have. >> So what did your taxes show last year? What would you bring in? What was your tax billing? >> Last year, I pulled in around 250.

>> Amazing. Dude, you're crushing.

“If I'm grandma, that's what I'm proud of.”

Not the car up here. >> Or just you. >> Your successful, right young man. >> She loves you for you. And if a car is gonna be the ticket for her to love you,

even more, this relationship is built on, on a force. >> Oh no, it's not like it's you're gonna love me more, because it's a car you just want to impress your grandmother. >> But just rent a car for five months, you want to impress her. >> No, Muhammad, you got to like,

you got to detach your identity from all this stuff. This is not who you are. I give you a tomorrow. If you look up tomorrow and you're driving a Honda Civic, would that absolutely trip you out?

And if it would, then I would, I would ask some deeper questions of what's going on. How would your identity is wrapped up in it? >> I have a Honda Civic right now.

I had my second car as a Honda Civic.

>> You have two cars, you use it for short trips. >> Oh my gosh, you got two cars. >> You use it for short trips.

“>> Okay, I think you need some problems, Muhammad.”

Right now, you don't have enough. >> I do, I do my own reality and you've done so well. And I think that's caused you to go, well, I have to live a certain way because I've done so well. And the more you can realize that your identity is not wrapped up

the better relationships you're gonna have and the better life you're gonna have. >> Listen, we're not mad at $90,000 cars. And if you can pay cash for a $90,000 car,

“and that's what you want Muhammad, because you wanna upgrade your car,”

you enjoy cars, and whatever the motivation is. But asking yourself, if nobody sees this purchase, would I still want it?

And if the answer is, yeah, I still want it, I would still want this.

Like if that was the beginning of this call, it'd be a green light for me, because I think you could afford it and you would be fine. But what I'm scared of is that if you make this purchase because of the motivation that you just explained to us,

you have set up a pattern in your life. And a lane at which is unrealistic and unfulfilled. It's an unfulfilling lane that you're setting up, that if I just get this purchase, I'm gonna feel good from the ego stroke of my grandmother,

who says, oh my gosh, you're just amazing and look how successful you are. Whatever you need from her, whatever that need is, that need is still gonna be there, and it's gonna, and you're gonna look to other people to fulfill it.

And so I want Muhammad to be content and happy with, what Muhammad has, regardless of what anyone thinks, and especially grandma, I mean, my gosh, granny's and Nana's, they're like the number one fan of grain. I know.

“She will be happy to be in a Honda Civic, you know?”

- What is she drawing? - What is she drawing? That's the question. What is she used to? Is she running around in Rolls Royces? - No, what she, she, well, my parents,

are doing very well for themselves too. And they have obviously spoiled my grandmother a lot. And her husband did very, very well. So my grandfather would just pass away this January. So she does not drive,

but she gets driven around in a Toyota Lane Cruiser, which-- - Yeah, that's fine. I think you come from a successful family. You do, you come from a successful family,

and you want to graft into that message that's been told to you, and what we're giving you is a different perspective on life. And again, it's also the stuff is bad, but when the stuff has you at that point

to the point that you're gonna go and make a purchase. Again, solely out of wanting someone to feel good about it, and feel good about you because of this purchase all of it. I just don't like the motivation.

And I think it's gonna end up, you're gonna end up in a, like a rat in a wheel running and running and running the whole, your whole life, 'cause it's not gonna be great on next. It's gonna be the girl next, it's gonna be a parent,

it's gonna, you know what I mean, plug it in anybody. - And then the goal post moves too, 'cause now it's like, well, you don't have a sports car. You'd be nice to add a Lamborghini to the mix if you really wanna keep up.

And then it becomes a lifestyle that you can't keep up with, even if you can afford it, you admit it, this is impulsive, and there's better ways to spend this money, right? Do you have a mortgage?

- No, I currently rent, that was my second question.

I have two options right now. I rent a two bedroom apartment, I live alone. Don't need two bedroom, I know that's where, but I like an open space. Now that Graham is coming,

and she's a magnet, she's gonna pull maybe my parents or my brothers and everyone here. Hence, I'm gonna need a little bigger of a space. I was talking to a realtor yesterday, and she showed me this house,

that's up for sale for 395. Now I could scramble and gouged and get that 395 to get that house. How, and she gave me a second option. Near where I lived, they built new townhouses

that are up for rent. I currently pay $2,500, those townhouses that are up for rent for 3500. - It's all the same philosophy. No, I would not be seeing any of them.

And impulse, I would not make an impulse decision of buying a house, Muhammad. They can afford to go-- - Wait six months, and wait till they leave, and then you make a decision for your future for you.

No, we do not need to be in pulsing. - But on a house. - If I was gonna drop money, I'd rather be on a house than a car, but do it for you and for know what he else. (upbeat music)

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(upbeat music) - Patty's up next, and Salt Lake City. Patty, welcome to the Ramsey Show. - Hi, how are you? - We're doing great.

What's your question today? - Good, quick, quick. All right, husband has worked

“for his parents, his family farm for the last 31 years.”

They're super controlling, is it crazy for me to exit land for succession? They control his salary, his time. They even control the house we live in. Like, we paid for half of the house,

and they refused to put any of it on our names. Like, we can't even remodel it. I went to them, and because it's built in the 70s, I have like electric blue bathrooms. I asked them to remodel it,

and or he wouldn't ask them.

I asked them by a letter. They wouldn't even respond, but they told him that I wasn't grateful enough for the house that they provided for us. But we paid half of it.

- So zero is it? - So zero is it? - And cash, but they paid half of it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, this isn't saying anybody. You know that, nothing about this is normal.

- Okay, so for one end of the spectrum, that they control his income and time, Yadia, that would be like having a boss, right? - You can say Dave Ramsey controls my income and time. - Yeah, so there's a level of like,

I'm working for a person, and they have set up a company in a certain way. But the housing situation for sure is not, yeah, you guys are not in a good spot, because if the house is not in your name

and you put half of your money into it, you legally have no assets, right, from a home perspective, correct. - So what is your husband saying? These are his parents, does he see that as not good

for your future? - He doesn't really mind. He thinks that they will just be fair when the time comes. But my thing is I will ask him,

like we have no retirement plan with him, because of course, you expect your ground on a farm to be your retirement plan. And that is fine. When we started to 30 years ago,

we used to have family meetings, and it would be like, "Oh, we're gonna let you start signing checks. We're gonna let you do this. We might have you buy some more ground

and put it in your name. None of that ever came to fruition." And so now, here we are 30 years later. - Mm-hmm. - We're gonna have to.

- You're gonna have to. - Yeah, you're gonna have business deal. - If they're gonna be fair, they're gonna have to. - And that's a marriage problem, Patty, between you and your husband,

decided what you want your life to look like. And it says much his fault and your fault, as the parents fault, they've just set up the life they want. And you guys have chosen to go along with it

until you're fed up, and you've called this show. So, at that point, it's gonna be yeah, you and your husband have to figure out which one's your future look like. In a pretty big way, 'cause it'll probably,

“if you do it the right way, I think the healthiest plan”

is gonna include a lot of boundaries that have not existed for 30 years. And I don't know if his parents will be up for the task, but your husband can't ask the decide, but my future and my marriage and my family

was taking care of, or am I gonna just still be a child? And still do what Mom and Dad say, right? I mean, to a degree. - Oh, absolutely. - Absolutely.

- They're gonna take kindly to him all of a sudden having a backbone to you. - No, no, they won't. And he knows, like he tells me, he's definitely gonna rock in a hard place.

And when I ask him, I'm like,

"So basically, we can't make up plans for our family."

- Yeah, you're trapped. I mean, you can't even get the money out of this house, 'cause you can't even sell it. - No, we can't. - My question, Betty, why did you write them a letter?

Why did you not just call and talk to them? Is the relationship strained right now

“that you can't just call and have a discussion about it?”

- I can talk to my mother-in-law, but the father-in-law doesn't talk and phone, or he doesn't talk or, you know, he doesn't want to. So I just thought it would be easier than I could just express myself a little better with that.

And I thought my mother-in-law would call me back, but she didn't, and then she just went to my husband, and she wouldn't even show it to my father-in-law. 'Cause she said, "I wasn't grateful enough." - Because he-- - There's some narcissistic behavior

that I'm capturing here. And I think this is gonna have to come between your husband and his parents. - It's your, yeah, I mean, at this point, Patty, it's you and your husband that it's the issue.

and there's a business family issue

between your husband and his parents. And he's gonna get awkward.

“- And for him to continue to choose them over you, Patty.”

- That's what her-- - That's what her-- - That's what the resentment is coming. I'm not here at all in your voice, which I get, I would be pissed too, probably, but also have you said anything for 30 years?

- Oh, yeah, lots of times, lots of times. - And so what does he say? - What does your husband say? - He just sat down. - He said something that you got--

- Yeah, you guys ain't gonna marriage. - You guys ain't gonna go to marriage counseling. - You don't have a breakdown in your marriage. - Or when you're married. - He showed up for two times, and then he wouldn't do it again,

because they told him that it was crazy too. - Okay, so, well, Patty, you have some decisions to make about your life. So I don't know if we can fix that on a seven-minute call. I'm so sorry, but--

- Fixing 31 years of toxic relations. - Yeah, so I mean, there would be some ultimatums for me, not for like an accident in a threatening way, but just in a, hey, I'm sick and tired of this. And I don't feel safe.

I don't feel like we have a future. I don't feel secure. I have a lot of fear. I don't like how I've been treated in this part. And Patty, if you've had stuff in the past

that you've done wrong, admit that too, right? I mean, it's not like, it's all their fault. I'm sure there's been tips and tips throughout the years, but if, but yeah, if I'm married to a guy and as a wife that you're saying, all these things,

and he doesn't at least listen, take into consideration, have conversations about it, figure out a way to make this life work for you. I don't know what else-- - I don't know what else tell you.

- Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. And he, he makes it like when I say,

so basically we are not going to know what we're going to get

until your parents are no longer with this. And you'll go, so now you want my parents dead. And I'm like, that's not the case. This is just common in planning. And so--

- Well, then you guys need to ask-- - Yeah, I think an ask would be that we need to create our own retirement plan. How old are you guys? - Uh, 55 and 52.

- Okay, well, I would say, for me to feel secure, I need a path of retirement that has nothing to do with your family and the farm because nothing is documented. And so there's not security there. We don't have security in it because we don't know what's going on.

And so I need to start-- I want to start putting money away for our family in retirement, right? And you guys, but that in the wet, you know, and I don't know if I'll go for it,

but that's what-- that would be a plan.

“- Are you working outside the home patio or have you?”

- Pretty much. - I have, I have. So about 10 years ago, I started my own business and I was super blessed. And so I have been putting away for me, you know,

we're putting into retirements and stuff, set plans, law plans. - Yeah, that's good. - That's what I would be doing. Is creating your own little island

to be insulated from the came out of the currency. - I learned. But like, I was just told like that, he's like, well, now you're becoming financially independent from me and you don't need me.

And I'm like, yeah, that's been part of my plan because you just didn't care for our family. And you just do everything with your family. So I had to take care of myself. So I have been blessed to be able to do that.

- Yeah. - I would continue that. - Yeah, and conversations moving forward,

something John Deloni always talks about is,

the more you point the finger, your family, you, you know, all of that immediately defenses go up. Like, that's just human nature. You're immediately, he's gonna want to defend himself. And you know, I mean, that's natural.

So as much as you can talk about you, patty, and what you can control is you. And what it's doing to you.

“And that's how I would approach the conversations”

with your husband. But yeah, you guys need some deep contain light. And there are a lot of generational farmers that we've talked to on this show. That's very difficult from a financial perspective,

a passing down generationally between siblings. I mean, there's just a, there's a lot there. And people have done it really well and communicated. Very clear expectations. Everyone is in the know.

It's, you know, very, very, I don't know, it's been very clear. This sounds like the opposite patty that it's very, very muddled. And, you know, and a lot of questions.

So all you can do is continue to ask for clarity and set up your own boundaries and set up your own financial world. Not because you don't trust your husband, but because you need security in your own life.

Whether that's with him or without him. You deserve that. So I appreciate the call. This is gonna take a lot of untangling, and I don't know that you can do it in their lifetime,

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if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Joseph is in Columbia, South Carolina, up next. What's going on, Joseph? - Hey, what's going on, man?

“- Now, I am 24 years old living paycheck,”

the paycheck, I've been, so I was 18.

Can't never seem to get ahead.

I'm just trying to figure out some way to get ahead. - What do you think is the cause of that? If you look back over those six years? - I've just just been one thing after another. Every time I get ahead, get money saved up,

whatever else, something happens, something breaks, something and I just, I can't never seem to get ahead. - So you got a lot of emergencies. Murphy's moved in with you. - Yeah.

- What's your income right now? Has it been going up over those six years? - No, not really, I'm making 22 an hour right now, which would be what, like 45 a year. - Yeah, what are you doing in that career?

Are that job? - Right now, I am a service technician. - Is that okay? - What does the latter look like in that world? If you were to move up and up and up.

- I can move up pretty well within probably the next. I've only been doing this for six months now, but majority of the time within about eight years, I can move up to a position where I'm making 100 grams if work really hard at it.

But right now it's just trying to make it to that point. - Yeah. - How much debt do you have? - I'm sitting at 26,000 hours in debt. - Break that down for us.

What types of debt is the balance? - I have 15,000 in debt on a truck, truck loan. I have 6,000 in debt on a boat loan. And then the rest of it is stuff I did when I was younger, dumb and stupid and it's like Amazon affirm stuff.

- Or buying out pay later on. - Okay, so what I'm hearing is you said, "Man, life just been coming at me.

"I've never heard of a boat coming at you.

"You don't even like that stuff." - I don't like it, but you know what I mean? - Yeah, that's true. You see what I'm saying here? If I looked in the mirror, I go,

"Man, yes, life has happened. "There have been some emergencies, "but that's not the problem. "The problem is I want some stuff "and I can't wait till I have the money to buy the stuff.

"So I'm gonna borrow money from other people." And so if we can get out of that mentality, then we can get you out of this cycle. But it's gonna have to start with you saying, "I'm done with debt.

"I'm never touched on this stuff again. "Tried it, got burnt. "I'm gonna sell the boat. "I'm gonna work those three jobs. "I'm gonna live on nothing in the meantime.

"So that I can get an emergency fund.

"So that it's never getting to debt again in insurance plan."

- Well, the thing about that is, so when I turned 18, my grandma had some money she left to me. It paid for my truck and my boat, I didn't know anything on them.

My truck broke down five years later,

I had to buy another one. It was about me, but money paid had to buy another one. My boat motor that I had, it blew up had to buy another one. I'm in my boat, any and every chance I can get.

- Okay, Joseph Joseph Joseph Joseph Joseph Joseph, we got it, we got a change, our language, okay? You did not have to. No one had a gun to your head that you had to, okay? You wanted to, that was a want.

- Well, okay, so just, I mean, I'm being for real though because when there's a mentality of this thing breaks, so that means I immediately, and you're normal, this we get calls like this all the time. People, this is people's mentality.

Well, there's no other option. I have to go, I have to go and get a car on, I have to go and buy a new boat, I have to. Now you don't, you really don't, I mean. - You'd like to.

- Yeah, I mean, you, like you could, you could get a ride

from a friend, you could bike, like you didn't say, like I know those are not realists. - No, those are not realists, you can't get a good a canoe. Those are not realistic, I get that, but the point is when you start separating needs and wants

from like a very extreme degree, it causes you then to say, okay, this is not a need. I now have to make other decisions of dead is not on the table. So that means I have to go buy a $2,000 truck that barely puts, puts, puts down the road,

“but it's gonna, but that's what I can afford.”

I don't have money for a boat, so I'm gonna have to say no, I'm gonna say no to myself. I can't get a boat, so, so there are this, you do have to filter through some of these decisions because that has what's caused you to be here.

And when you go that extreme Joseph, which is sounds extreme, but when you do, I'm telling you, every purchase you make, you're gonna be thinking, do I need this? And in this point of you getting out of debt

and all of it, a lot of it's gonna make, nope, I don't need it, nope, I don't need it in Saturdays, I'm gonna be working, Sundays, I'm gonna be working, 'cause I need to be making some extra money to pay all this stuff off.

And then, once we have money, then we can start saving towards goals of things that we want, 'cause boats are not bad and trucks are not bad, but the way we've gone about them has caused a lot of stress in a paycheck

to paycheck living because you have payments. Like if all those payments were freed up every month, you wouldn't be paycheck to paycheck. - Yeah, what's your truck payment? - A truck payment's actually,

it's only $426.

- Okay, do me a favor and never say lonely

in front of a payment again, Joseph. (laughing) - You hear that? 'Cause that was you justifying the payment. - Yeah.

- You don't have that money, you're living paycheck to paycheck. $425, that changed your life. That was just sitting in your account months a month. So we got $425 on that, what's the boat payment? - The boat payment is 160.

- Okay, and then the motor. - One of the rest of those payments were all the other stuff you mentioned. - Um, one of them's $60, the other one's $80.

“And I think the other one's there's one more”

that's like 60 bucks. - Okay, okay, so we're over $700. - Yes, 750 is what I have. - So if I gave you a $700 raise, would that help you get out of this paycheck to paycheck cycle?

- It definitely would. You see where we're going with this? It's time to aggressively attack the debt with no other folk, you don't need to be on a boat. You don't have time, you're gonna be working too much.

That's the great news. So what could you sell the boat for today? - Not much, or it's a piece of junk, honestly. The motor's only thing that's worth anything, and that's 'cause it's brand-new.

- I'm so confused. So did you buy it as a piece of junk? - So now I bought it in 2018 as a decent boat and over the years, it has proven to be a piece of junk. - Sounds like you just fill everything you've done.

- You put a $6,000 motor on a piece of junk. - $1,000 motor on a piece of junk. - No, no, jokes. - See, bad, right? Not good.

Would you agree? - I do. - I'm sorry. - I'm glad we're like tracking. Some people, you know, you don't really track.

We're tracking, we're just trying to justify that. - But time, at the time, I don't know how to continue this video again. - 60 to 80 hours a week, I was making the money. It wasn't a problem, but life happened,

and you have risk in your life. And suddenly it does become a problem when things change. That's what happens with debt. That's what happens with debt. Everyone's fine, everyone can afford the house payment.

They can afford the car loans. Everything's fine, until there's a job law. Until a kid gets sick, until whatever life happens and you've built your life on risk and it all comes to someone down.

So, Joseph, I'm excited for you. I feel a lot of work in Joseph's future,

“and I really think Joseph, you can get out of this.”

- Yeah, Joseph, here's the truth. When I was your age, I was $40,000 in consumer debt, and I wasn't even making 45 grand like you are. And I got out. And the way I did it was by cutting my expenses down

to nothing and working two or three extra jobs.

I threw only at my smallest debt.

“The rest you're gonna make minimum payments.”

That's called the debt snowball method. Then once you get rid of all the debt, now we can focus on savings and our emergency fund. So, hang on a line, I'm gonna give you every dollar. It's our budgeting app.

That's the one thing it does is it helps create margin, two throw at your debt, but you've got to actually do it. You gotta look at that budget every day, 'cause that's gonna be your ticket to saying no to the next thing that's gonna be happening to you

that you had to do. - Hey, Joseph, call us back, though. We're cheering you on. If you need help through this process, we are here, 'cause I really do believe in two years your life

could look so different.

- You're gonna be a success story.

Hang on a line, we're gonna get you every dollar and a copy of my book Breaking Free from Broke. That'll give you the road map to getting out of this thing. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

- When you've worked hard to buy a car the right way, you paid cash with no payments hanging overhead. The last thing you want is to worry about it every time you drive it.

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and you'll save 10% off your visit, up to $250. Cbac.com/ramsey, see store for details. (upbeat music) - Marie is in Columbus, Ohio, up next, Marie, how can we help today? - Hi, and thank you for taking my call.

I started listening to you guys in 2020

“and by the time I think I was in a bad situation by there.”

My current living boyfriend, who I plan to serve a 30 day notice to very soon, he ran up to my credit card and I've been following the baby steps and I've paid everything off except for those two credit cards and as a graduate of the baby steps

to help me realize that those two cards have been run up and it realized it at the time. And I guess I'm just looking for, I guess a way through, to figure out if there's a possibility for me to recruit my money back.

- Yeah. - So change for the payings work because it's all my credit. - Yeah. - Well, was he an authorized user on your card? How did he get access?

- He was not an authorized user on my card. So at the time, still moving together and we had a mosquito tick-free service, they used to be responsible for it. They said they wanted to do like the automatic,

they wanted to charge us automatically. And I was at home at the time as though I used my credit card and gave it to them and he said, you know, don't worry about it. I'll pay for the service.

And so that's how it started. - So he grabbed your credit card while he was at home, saw it on a table, what happened? - No, I gave it to them. - You did it.

- Okay.

- And with the problem is that he's gonna pay it back.

- Yeah, and they were being charged in a card every month. It's a monthly recurring charge and then he would, you know, pay for it. - That was part of one of his bills he was part of the house.

- But then what happened? You said you ran it up. - Well, yeah, I didn't realize he had ran it up because I made this a supposed to be paying that recurring charge.

And then it was in 2023 that I realized that this card had like a really big balance on and now it's like, hey, where are you doing? And I said, and I noticed like your payments aren't covering with charges.

And he told me, don't worry about it. I got it. I was paying it, I'm gonna keep paying it. And he said, you know, like we haven't done this before. - But that was three years ago.

- So what happened since then with the balance? - It continued to bloom.

- What is the credit card statement say?

- Is it all this one company on this credit card? - This particular one. - Yes, he actually ended up doing it to two, but what I was on my radar was this one credit card one company.

- Okay, well, if it truly was without your knowledge, it was an authorized use that's fraud. And you can call your credit card company to see - And he gave the card to the company. - Well, do you know to be from a legal perspective,

- Yeah, but was there other things on this outside of the fleeing tax service that I'm wondering? - I see you doing other stuff.

“- That's what, and that's what I didn't realize.”

So he was supposed to be paying the recurring charges for the fleeing ticket company. But then I started looking in there when I said, notice the credit card balance had gone up, and then he started using,

I saw him using the card to pay for our car insurance. You know, like $7,800 to pay for the car insurance. - For your own car insurance? - For yours or his or both. - Our, 'cause we were in the house together.

And he had two cars on the insurance. I had one car on the insurance. The insurance was another bill to dispose the pay. I did not know, he didn't buy car to pay. The insurance.

And then I started seeing other transactions for advanced auto parts and car parts business and car parts that. - Okay. - And we have a question.

- We have a question. - Random other stuff. - For the credit card statement every month, where was that being mailed to or sent to? - You were being mailed to our address, our home.

“- And you just didn't see it or he would take the bill”

and you never saw the bill.

- I never saw the bill, he would take the bill because he was supposed to be paying it for the green net. - Okay. - And so I just did it. I didn't think anything of it that he was taking the bill

because he was paying it. - So some of this, Marie. So some of this from a legal perspective, George correct me. But some of this, if it really was without your knowledge,

I think you can flag that as fraud. But Marie, if you willingly gave your credit card over and you just have a crappy boyfriend who's not paying it, that's more on you guys. That's not a legal standing.

- Especially after three years. And all of a sudden, you're calling the credit card companies and hey, there's some fraudulent charges here. - From three years ago. - Yeah, I did it.

Call the credit card company and say that we're fraudulent charges. I noticed that I didn't tell you that. I went to him and say, hey, what are you doing?

“Like, you're supposed to be paying these bills.”

- Have you called them in a phrase on that? - I just met this, I'm sorry. - Have you called and put a freeze on anything on your credit or this account or for more money not to be taken out?

- Well, by that time, I had. So what ended up happening is, I told it, what ended up happening is he just got paying the bill, just period. - Okay.

- And I said, why aren't you making the payment? He said, I'm sorry, I missed the payment. And he was going off of the fact that we had done this before. I haven't just met the man.

I've known him for a very long time. - Sure. - He used my credit card to do other things like by tires and he paid the bill

and we just kept moving it had never been an issue.

- Okay, so from today, where we stand, Marie, how much is on the card balance? - As of right now, the card balance is $8,100, but because I paid it down. - Yes, at the time, $10,000, $900.

- And are you guys broken up? What's the status of the relationship? - I don't consider myself to be in a relationship with him anymore, and I plan to spend him with an addiction illness, really soon.

- What do you mean, you don't consider it? Are you guys broken up or not? It's not like a feeling. Well, I don't consider, I don't identify as a single person. It's just, did you guys break up or did you not?

- I have broken up, he changed, he's in a relationship and I can't change his thought. - Who's he saying it to? - Yeah, yeah. - Okay, so, yeah, you're not.

- He's in denial. - He's in denial. - Okay, this is name one, please, Marie. - I own the home. - Okay, so no lease.

- On the home, and he won't leave. - Yes, so that needs to be a sheriff, will need to show up in a victim, correct? 'Cause this has gotten so entangled. - Yeah, so entangled.

- Yes, from a financial perspective, so entangled. And this is what happens when people co-mingle finances, when you're not married, you have no legal protection, really. - What, on your end, and then in 2020,

watch, I start listening to you guys. - Yes, so I'm sorry, so already. - Okay, so you've got $8,000 left. So Marie, if we got to figure out, is that the only debt you have as this card?

- She did the same similar thing to the Lowes card. I did not that card, I didn't know he was using that at all. - Okay, how much is on that? - And the current balance is now $4,900, but he ran it up to like $5,600, and outside of those two bills,

- Oh, yes, you said that. - Okay, perfect. - Okay, so what I would do is I would become, I would investigate as much as I can, calling these two credit card companies,

and in good standing a faith of what you can say, honestly, yes, these were charges I did not know about. You probably can't say about the fleet tick company, because you willingly gave over your credit card,

and he just never paid you back,

and that's between you guys. But from a legal standpoint, here are charges that I did not know about, and I would try, I would see what you don't- - See if they'll reverse that.

- Yeah, if they can reverse any of it, I don't know if they will, 'cause it's been so many years, but it would be amazing if not, and then if it doesn't, Marie, it's, I mean, yeah, this could chucked up to $12,000 of stupid taxes.

Well, we call it, if just like a really hard lesson, which is so frustrating for you, it's so frustrating for you, because you've been working this plan, and you've been doing it, and it's just, it may be a really not-

fun lesson to learn, if, you know what I mean?

“If this is the bills that you have to end up paying,”

'cause it's all in your name. But I would cut off any access of any accounts from him, and making sure he has no access to you financially. And yeah. - And I would go on to every credit bureau's website,

TransUnion Equifax, all of them, and freeze your credit completely, so that nobody can open up any accounts in your name. - He didn't do it to any other card, just those two, and he hasn't done it, and just, I don't care.

- As far as you know. - I don't trust him, I've already checked. - No, he hasn't done it. - I was still freeze your credit. - Freeze your credit, don't not, no, I don't trust him.

He can't know what he would do when he gets pissed that you have picked up. I mean, uh, nope, I'm closing down every credit card account. You could still pay it off after that, but close him down, freeze your credit,

and get this guy out of your life, and then clean up the debt yourself. This is not gonna be fun, but it'll be a lesson well learned.

You'll never do this one again.

- No, I won't. (upbeat music) - Hey guys, George Campbell here. Listen, we need to talk about your phone plan, because for a lot of you, it's like a bad roommate.

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- Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fairwin's Credit Union Studio. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. Open phones at Triple 8, 825, five, two, two, five. So Rachel, we recently just took a call from a lady

who was going through a hard time, because she's had this sort of toxic relationship. The ex is living in her house, who she now has to evict. He's been using her credit cards.

- Yeah. - We're in without her knowledge, running up 13 grand and credit card debt. And it just was a great reminder of why we tell people to not combine your life and your money before marriage. - 'Cause some of it, it wasn't outrageous stuff.

It was like our car insurance is we're just gonna pay them together. Right? It's very normal things, but when you combine your life with someone

even from a financial perspective, yeah, you just set yourself up for a lot of chaos and untangling that is exhausting and end up costing you a lot of money.

“That's why we ended up finding over and over again.”

'Cause usually the person that is the financial responsible and ends up getting the bad end to the deal. Right? It's usually the one that's not great with money, ends up kind of mooching or figuring out how to like,

not necessarily, I don't think they're always malicious

by doing that. It's just the way it happens. And when you're not married, yeah, there's no protection for you. - And what's funny is we get a lot of flag for our advice

that you should combine finances once you're married. And they all get so angry at that. They wanna combine when they're not, but once they're married, they wanna stay independent. - Yes, I'm like, okay, so let's stay codependent

while we're not married. And once we're married, we wanna be independent. - Right, that is insanity. - Yep, crazy. - So aside from any of your faith background

and some moral judgment on living together,

to co-sign, to add someone as an authorized user or to buy a house with someone. - Yeah, big purchase together. We're both your names are on it. When you're not married, not good, not good.

- So much risk, so much drama. And you're assuming everything works out perfectly and this show would not exist

if everything always worked out perfectly.

- You wouldn't have jobs with that. - We're on the other side of it when they go, well, I could handle the payment until he couldn't. Well, everything was great until I found out he was-- - Yeah, and honestly, it just adds to,

I think more of the heartbreak because not only when you break up and you gotta untangle everything, not only is it just your heart's broken, right? Or the situation is really sad

'cause you're obviously very close to that significant other two share finances. And when you break up, if you break up, not only are you dealing with like the heartache of just the breakup, but then you're sitting there

trying to pull your credit report, right?

“You figure out who's on it, what debts and what do you owe me?”

And then it's just, it's just so messy. - It's anger and guilt and resentment and why did I waste so many years with that person? - Which is my one heart. - All to leave with this mess that I have to clean up,

it just sort of makes you look in hindsight to realize how messy it was and how you didn't see it. So you're too close to it. - That's right, so clearly you guys, do not combine your finances until you are married.

And when you are married, yes, we are a proponent of combining your finances, sharing a checking account. When both incomes are one income, hits the household, that is the household budget.

We both have a say in it more married. We both have opinions. We both are able to agree on this as well what we're doing with our money 'cause when you do that, you agree on your life

at that point and where you're going.

Now, there's always the asterisk if there is,

if there is a divorce coming, if there is abuse addiction,

“like there are situations that you have to protect”

yourself a hundred percent. - When you get on to have your own account. - Yes, yes, that's right. - Protect yourself from this person. - Yep, that's right.

But for all the other marriages in the world that are just going along, I'm telling you. Combine your finances, be one in that, and it creates someone's unity. - And the other thing is, you noticed,

she wasn't paying attention. She wasn't checking the credit card statement. She was just assuming that he was telling the truth. And so, you've got to stay on top of this. Your money is your responsibility and nobody else.

So don't ever assume that they've got it under control. That's usually a sign that things are going south.

You don't even know about it.

So there's our soap box, we are now stepping off. Although I like the height boost it gave me, - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Thanks for listening. - We're going to talk back down here. - All right, Karen is in Toledo up next.

Karen, welcome to The Ramesy Show. - Hi, thank you. - What's going on? - So my husband and I can't decide if we can afford a new vehicle or a new task,

vehicle for 30 to $40,000. Just with our other expenses, our mortgage, and the potential other expenses with our 100 year old home, as well. - All right, walk us through this.

“How much money do you guys have right now, saved up?”

- So we have about 120 in our savings. - Awesome, and you guys have any debt? - We have our mortgage, but no other debt. - Okay, and what's your household income? - So I just went part time, so it was 180 now.

It's going to be about 160. - That's still a great income, okay. So what's the argument about? This sounds all reasonable, you're going to pay cash. It's not a huge part of your world.

Are you going to buy it used or brand new? - Well, I previously would have bought it new, but since being married, we're probably going to get new to us, but maybe a year or two, maybe three years old. - Okay, and as your husband not wanting to do this, or are you?

- So my husband does not want to buy a vehicle. I do want to buy a vehicle just because I think we need the space. We have two small, old cars. We have a 2017 and a 2014 car. So space for kids or what? - We do have a new baby, and then we also have a large dog,

so yes. - Okay, so new baby, large dog, you want more space, and he thinks it's a waste of money. Is it a financial part of spending that much money, or is the idea that you guys don't need a car at all?

- So he agrees we do need a car, but it's the financial aspect of it just because we live in 100-year-old house. We're living on borrowed time with our AC furnace units, potentially a new roof, potentially a new sewer pipe.

I mean, this is all functioning now, but it's just kind of we're on borrowed time for all these very expensive money. - Can you add it up if everything hit the fan, and everything went out at the exact same time,

what would that cost you guys? - So the sewer is probably about 15 AC furnace. I would have to say probably about six, eight thousand, and for a roof, we don't know the roof we haven't

that's probably in the next couple of years or so.

- Okay, 'cause I'm just doing some quick math that if you guys have 120 saved, if you had an emergency fund of 40,000, that was a fully funded emergency fund for you guys, I'm not sure what your household expenses are per month,

but that would be a hefty good emergency fund. - You'd have 80,000 left, let's say you spent half of that on a car, you'd have 40,000 left, and if everything hit the fan,

“I think you'd still have enough to cover all of that, right?”

- Yes, but that's very scary to think about, and then plus we just didn't know with having a mortgage, we still have about 130,000 to 0 on that, if that's something we should be prioritizing over purchasing a car, not necessarily.

- Yeah, I mean, buying a new car is totally acceptable, and maybe steps 4, 5, and 6, which is where you guys are. - Your life is a priority, and so if you need the car for your life, because your lifestyle, you guys are doing it right,

and I think having $60,000 still left over

after covering the car and the emergencies, you're gonna knock out the house fast, knowing you guys. You're gonna just start throwing chunk in money weight, that thing after the renovations are done, repairs, the cars here, now you've sort of freed up

all of that savings in money, right? Your future income? - Right, that is very true. - It just, it makes us, you know, it's unnerving to think about all this potential, very expensive things

that are themed. - Yeah, but it's windling.

“- Yes, I hear you, but you would have enough still”

in savings to cover those things, and they have not happened yet, and more than likely, they'll be staggered while you can be saving money on top of that. So it's not like your savings completely stops after you buy this car, pick it back up

and save some more if you guys want,

and then if you have too much in saving, throw some at the house, right? - And I would give you more. - Each savings account, one is for the car, one is for the house stuff.

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in the MLS Consumer Access.org Eagle Housing Lender. (upbeat music) - John is in Richmond, Virginia, up next. John, welcome to the show. - Thanks for having me, guys.

- Absolutely. - What's your question today? - I've got a, I feel like I've hit the job lottery, kind of a specialist in my field, and I recently just got a humongous increase in income.

My wife is also getting her raise starting into life. So we're suddenly, we feel like we're kind of suddenly wealthy, but I'm kind of panicking because I don't know what to do and I'm really behind them our retirement. And I'm 48 years old almost.

So kind of lost as to what to do. I'm happy that I'm nervous. - Yeah, no, that's actually a good feeling, John. That tells me you're gonna be very wise with this and cautious and actually use it to build wealth.

If you were to say, yeah, double my income, we're gonna go buy some stuff. I'd be like, all right, we gotta slow down. So walk us through this. What is your household income now?

What will it be? - Okay, so it's going to be 330. - Fantastic.

“- Right, yeah, it's, I think we're getting”

about 120,000 between the both of us. They increase all of a sudden. - So are you both getting increases or just one of you? - Both of us. - Oh, you both are.

And it just happens to fall at the same time. - Yeah, yeah, I just, my new position just started my life starts in July. So, you know, right right there around this thing. - That's great.

Congratulations, John. Good for you guys. Where are you guys at financials? - Thanks. - Do you have any debt?

- Well, we have our mortgage. We have 214 in our house. We do have two use correlones that are fairly recent.

No credit card debt. - What's the balances on the cars? - Combined at 24,000.

“- Okay, how much do you guys have in savings right now?”

- 22,000. - Okay. - Is that just liquid or is that retirement? - It's liquid. - Okay, and then how about my retirement is very low.

My retirement's like $45,000. - $45, okay, what's your wife? - Yeah. - She's her retirement at like $340,000 or so. - Okay, so hers is, okay, hers is more.

- Yeah. - Okay, great. So, yeah, so I would make a plan to

probably feel like you didn't get a raise for a hot second.

Once it starts to get these cars paid off. So pay off the 24,000. - And honestly, you could do it the next paycheck. If you take your next paycheck-- - Yeah, you can do it.

- Plus most of the savings, these correlones are knocked out. And now you free up those payments for the rest of your life. - Yeah, that's right. And the colors are fairly new, even though they're used. - Yeah, that's great.

- Yeah, that's great. - But yeah, so we have like basically that leaves us with the little bit we have in our checking account. And that dreams are saving slash emergency funds, so--

- Yep, so we're-- - Yeah, then you'll bring it back up with the new income and have a good fully funded emergency funds. And all this hits in July, it's almost May. So that's two months. Yeah, so I would throw--

I would throw your savings at this car.

You'll have a little bit left on it on one of 'em. And keep a thousand dollars in there. And go ahead and pay everything off. And then once July hits, you guys start really stalking away some money for a fully funded emergency fund.

And then beyond that, John, you just go down the baby steps. You guys need to invest 15% of your income into retirement through all the extra weekend at the house, OK? And have some fun in there too, right? If you guys want to take a trip or something, that's OK.

But having a aggressive goal to pay off this house. I mean, if you guys said, hey, what if we did this in two years, like a pretty aggressive way, because once the house is paid off and everything, then to your point about retirement, all that's left is to stack money in those retirement accounts

and then even beyond that, because you guys will probably max out a lot of your Roths and your 401(k) even. So-- Because you guys, 15% of $3.30 is almost 50 grand.

So that's over four grand a month.

You guys are going to be putting away. And that's without any employer match. So I did the math. So my company won't start letting me have a retirement for a year. And my job just now started.

So I'm kind of like, well, well, do I start? Like, talk to a financial advisor get it. Well, you can still do a backdoor Roth IRA. Yeah, I would do the Roth. And then I would just put some money.

Yeah, I would sit down with the financial advisor. I'd probably open up like an index fund or something, and just throw some money and investing. It may not be a retirement specific, but I would get in that-- have it a 15% of my income being invested.

And then once the 401(k) is available next year, then maybe turn down the index fund and put it at the rest in the 401(k) because you'll have great tax benefits with that. But even in the meantime, 15 grand would fully fund two backdoor Roth IRAs for you and your spouse.

You still have options even before you can contribute to the employer plan. So let's walk through this real quick for you, John. How much money would you free up?

“How much could you throw if you didn't have those car payments?”

How much could you set aside every month and savings? With the new income? Well, with the new income. I have a daughter to-- I have a daughter to start in college.

My new income is 330,000. The college expects us to pay about 30,000 a year for my daughter. And we don't want to take out loans for it. We want to pay it. So my bills are going to be 12,000 a month on average with all that going on.

That's without the car payments or with. That's without the car payments. OK. Great. But you're still going to be taking home like 20k a month.

Yes. OK. So you still have eight grand to put away when all said and done. If you do it right. Are we taking home eight grand?

How much are we taking home on the month? Because I have like-- My-- that's 20k a month is 24. So if you're making 330 after tax income, my after tax income is going to be about 16,8 per month, I think.

And that's without your wife? Yeah, that's with my wife. OK. That's a lot to employ. I have a W2 employee in my, I mean, the federal tax is state,

those purity, all that stuff is like 75 a year, all from out to 225, and I'm making to I will be making. So-- Yeah, but you're not paying 100, right? Grand a year in that out of your 330.

“That's what it amounts to, is you taking home 200.”

So I would look into that.

60% might be a little bit more after all of your deductions

“401k of that stuff is hitting, but either way,”

you're going to have some margin of four to five grand a month to sock away, which means you're emergency fee is going to get built up quick. Then we'll be investing 15%. So let's even say you're 49.

And you start investing that for a little over four grand a month between you and your wife's retirement at sort of the base nest egg. If you just do that from 49 to 62,

you guys would have about $2.7 million at 62.

All right. When you're 62, I don't know how old she is. I assume younger. Is that a fair sign? You're older than me.

Oh, wow, what for the old lady, Jordan? So she's 63 years 62, you get 2.7 million. And then you guys can decide we want to keep working or not. You probably will have the option by then. And with a paid off house, we have a point.

And that's without you increasing investing or making more money, which at this point, you guys are only going to make more money in your careers if you keep this up. Yeah. So I hope that's encouraging to you.

If you do this right, you stay at a debt, pay off the mortgage, follow these baby steps. And when the daughter is just falling. And when the daughter is out of college, that frees up money in four years.

You know what I mean? That frees up a lot of money. That's like 25, 100 a month. You can go on a vacation every month, John. Yeah.

It's all good, George. You're doing great. Don't beat yourself up, John, for the past. And the caution is very fair. Because as you run the numbers, you're looking.

It's like, yeah, it's not a million bucks.

You know what I mean? It goes fast if you're not careful.

“That's why we get people that make 300,000.”

And they're still living paycheck to paycheck, right? And it's like, that's what ends up happening. So the intentionality is key. I think writing out the numbers, you and your wife seeing it. I think having a great financial planner on board, especially with some of this retirement

stuff that's going to be picking up, is really wise. And yeah, I think if you guys just plan it out one to month, you're just, you know, you have that level of intentionality. Have a goal for paying off the house. All of that lined up.

You're going to do great. You really well. Great. Thanks. You got this man.

Thanks, John, for the call. I love a call like that. That's a fun problem to have. That's good. I didn't come double.

Then I want to be wise with it. Yes.

And the truth is, I mean, 214,000 left in the mortgage.

If they just take the daughter's college money, when she's done, they just throw that at the mortgage. Right, right, right. Well, some of the extra margin they have, they're done in a couple of years. Yeah, that's right.

So before they're 60, they're going to have a paid for house, maxing out retirement accounts, millionaires. How impressive. I said two years. That was too aggressive.

I like, you know. I love that spirit. What? Why not go big, right? Rachel goes big.

And she goes home. She does it all. Most people don't struggle with money because they can't do math. They struggle because they don't stick to a plan. And when your bank makes your money feel confusing or hard to track, plans fall apart

fast.

“And that's why I love Fairwin's credit union and their mobile app.”

Because let's face it. Most banks build systems that make it easy to swipe and hard to stay organized. But with the Fairwin's app, you open it and you know exactly what to do. No clicking through 11 menus just to move your own money. Just tap transfer and done.

You can deposit a check from your couch by taking a picture. You can get real time alerts, so you're not guessing what's in your account. And you can add your Ramsey Beware debit card to Apple Pay and tap to check out. See, a lot of banks leverage convenience to make it easier to go into debt. But Fairwin's offers convenience to help you stay in control.

It's a huge difference. That's banking that actually supports the baby steps instead of working against them. So if you want to bank some place that's both faster and riser, check out Fairwins. Go to Fairwins.org/Ramsey. That's Fairwins.org/Ramsey, ensured by the NCUA.

Ramsey is taking over an entire cruise ship. Not like pirates. We booked it legally, don't worry. But this is 2,500 people coming together for the ultimate debt-free celebration. This is so much more than buffet's and deck parties, which I am personally excited about

those things. But you get to hang out with Dave and all of us Ramsey personalities for seven days. Here new teachings on wealth-building, join the world's largest debt-free screen, watch live episodes of your favorite shows on stage and so many more surprises who knows. That's so fun.

It's a fun week. Yeah. Ever since the last one, I was riding a camp high after that was something special.

Why is it such a great week?

“The people working on the cruise are like, "Who are these people?”

They're all so fast." They kept saying that. They're like, "This is the nicest week of people we've ever had." There's no strangers because you have like-minded people on one place. Not to make anyone uncomfortable, but everyone's like, "Yeah, they stay in line for

the buffet." How much debt have you paid off?

They just talk about things that you would never, ever probably share, but a place to celebrate

and get to go to Caribbean. It's me, fun. Not mad about it. It's me, fun. All right.

Click the link in the show notes or get a Ramsey Solutions dot com slash events to book your cabin. Hopefully we'll see you in 2027. Iris is in Bismarck, North Dakota. What's going on, Iris?

Hi, George. Didn't meet you all. How are you guys? Doing well. How can we help today?

Okay, so I'm in quite a bit of debt, and I actually started going to the daily steps at the beginning of the year, started like going full, like, going to the day about two months ago.

Are you paid off about $5, $1,000?

Awesome. All right. And my boss, my boss, offered to let me, the money that I need to play after I saw my debt and just pay him without interest. Hmm.

I lend you the money. How much is this? Um, so I have $41,800 left to pay off. Oh. And this is, um, so credit card, um, $9,373, I have $6,573,000 to the IRS, and a nasty personal loan

with one main financial for $25,850, $999. Okay. Um, no, I would not do that, uh, IRS. I know it sounds good because you don't have to pay interest in all of that, but suddenly now you're tied to your boss as, as a bank, basically.

Um, and any mispayments, anything that happens in your life, um, any, I mean, in any thing that is going to be happening, he's going to be just there, right? From like an emotional, financial, um, perspective. And so keeping things clean and just saying, hey, keeping the creditors, the creditors and keeping your boss the boss keeps very healthy boundaries and keeps everyone

in the lane. They should be in. I mean, you start meddling those, uh, it can get messy really quick.

“And the truth is, I interest the way you're attacking this thing isn't going to be”

the issue. Um, it's a good point. So the issue is the behavior that got us here and you are actively transforming that,

and I think there's something really powerful about using that dead snowball method to knock

out the next set, the next set, freeing up the payment. And if you just owe your boss one weird giant payment, it's just kind of hit different. And it's probably going to take longer. You're probably going to get a little comfortable because it's a well, I'm saving on an interest.

I don't need to be that aggressive. He only said I needed to pay 500 a month. And again, to Rachel's point, just add to risk, it changes the relationship. I would much rather owe all these other people money than my own boss. Yeah.

Iris, how much do you make a year? Yeah. Um, well, I've very, um, I work in the restaurant. So this year, I made 54 before taxes. Okay.

And um, I started doing some side holes, so I can pay off this debt. Good. Hopefully by my goal is February of 2027. Awesome. I love how specific you've been.

You knew your exact numbers on your debt. You have an exact debt. Pay off the date. That gives me a lot of encouragement. I'm a concert to go to.

So I need to be a concert. That's hilarious. What concert is it? Um, it's not back to boy. Oh, it's okay.

That's okay. Okay. She would think of a cell as this year. And she's going to perform in Puerto Rico, February 20. Who would destination?

How fun? Um, I risked the boss at the restaurant that you work at. Yeah. Okay. So I'll be honest, even more so why I wouldn't because that has that industry

turns over so much. You could look up in six months and get a great paying job somewhere else. But then you weirdly have this like loyalty to him because he liked it. This big favor for you. And so I, or he leaves and goes to a different restaurant.

And now he's like, hey, I need all that money up front. Yeah. Well, he's the owner of the restaurant. The thing is I've been working with him forever. I've known his guy for 11 years.

And he's seen me for 11 years and the thing is that he asks me, he's like, hey, I was like, I've seen you because I mean, you know, why haven't you bought a home? Just less things.

“And so that's why he asked why I haven't, you know, sure.”

Progress. No way. Yeah. It's a great idea. It's a great idea.

It's a great idea.

Like if we do, when you start mingling relationships and money, especially when it comes to borrowing money, it, it just, it changes the relationship.

“And even though I think the heart of him is probably gold and it's probably great.”

I just, I would have the more conservative approach of keeping him my boss and not my banker.

Like that's just basically, you know, at the end of the day.

So that's, that's what we would do. That's what I would do. George, I guess you could speak for yourself, but 100% that the more I'm thinking through this, I'm just going, this just feels like I can count on zero fingers how many times someone's called into the show and said, hey, I borrowed 40 grand for my boss and it

worked out perfectly. Payed him back and everyone was happy and the relationship was great. It just doesn't happen. It's sort of a pie in the sky, thought. And anytime you lend money to anybody that you know, it usually ends up changing the relationship

for the worse. And to your point earlier, George is so true. Iris, like you are the secret sauce to getting yourself out of debt. It's not rearranging debt. It's not consolidating here, getting this lender there and all of this.

People, people shuffle their debt around, even if it's not their boss, they'll pay it off. But like, to get a better deal here with the interests all of it. But listen, at the end of the day, it's really not going to matter.

It may save you a month or two, right?

But at the end of the day, it is you that's going to be paying this off. And you're the secret to it all, but you're not trying to finagle the interests. And so, because of the risk of the relationship and your employment, all of it. Yep, keep it. And you're less than a year away, according to your goal, right?

Yes, so great. Yes. So less than 12 months. So why are you guys back for the, for the debt fee? Great.

Yeah. Love it. And I hope you get to go to that concert. I'm not hip enough to know. I mean, I know Coachella.

That's about, and I have heard of Carol G, because I know that. Yeah. It's a relief. I need to look around. I'm so out of touch.

So when I only know music from like the early 2000s when I never learned anything new and

exciting. Let me see. Oh, she's pretty. So I thought about the music. Wait, I know.

I'm, I think it's great. Thank you for that. Give me a, give me a millennial boy band. And I'm there. And Daniel, a carrot.

I love that she has a thing that she wants to do, gives her a why. Yes. Sure. I'm going to work on extra concert. It doesn't have to be this really deep, why of like, you know, childhood trauma that I'm

running from. Just be a fun concert, and you go, I want to feel like I earned it. That's my finish line out there. And not put it on a payment plan. Yep.

That's my finish line. I'm not just a Disney Rachel. And we did these street interviews. Can't wait for you to see the Disneyland version. He did the Disneyland in California.

Yes. And how was it? Everyone I talked to. It was like an 18 year old on a payment plan for the annual pass. It's only 130 bucks a month.

That's what they tell me. And her mom's on the payment plan, too. So they're doing this together, too. Just not paying it off. Just paying the monthly payment.

It's some generational debt to the old family tradition now. But it's funny how we teach her kids that payments are okay as long as you can afford them. 100%. And just stupid financial decisions we get ourselves in from time shares to car payments.

All of that.

“And it's like when it's so normalized, that's what your kids pick up.”

That that is how you do life. And that's what ends up. I think the of being average, right? I've just been paycheck to paycheck. I rarely have enough of retirement if that, but really having to pay not so security and

you work your whole life for that. For that ending. And it's like, no, you can get rid of all of that. Pay yourself. It's at a pay in other people.

And it's very peaceful on the other side when you're in control. Humans are really good at one thing and that is justifying the things that they want, even when they don't have the money. That is the American way. And the sooner we can go the other way, the better off we're going to be.

. And Caesar is in Colorado Springs up next. Caesar, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, George, how are you guys? We're doing great, man.

What's going on with you? Well, I'm in a little dilemma. I feel like have been sort of like about a year now. My question is, like, what will give me closer to happiness? Money or experiences.

And the right show.

“I have-- what do you think, Caesar, I think you know the answer?”

I think so, but I know experiences will, but I know, like, at my age, I'm 21. So I feel like right now, everybody says it's split.

And some people are like, oh, you should go work and make your money now and later have fun. And I'm like, talking between those two. Yeah, I don't think it has to be an either/or at this point for you.

“I think there can be financial goals that can set you up to have a peaceful life because”

money does bring options and choices, and instead of being stressed and living paycheck to paycheck, which will rob your happiness, you know, you can set yourself up well, and especially at a young age, yes, investing in all of that will do that for you, Caesar. On one end of this spectrum, absolutely. But the other end, the lie that money at the end of the day is going to be the thing that

fulfills you. That's a lie. I mean, it doesn't. Even people that have a goal of, like, oh, I want to get a million dollars. Once they get it, it's like, okay, it's still me, so I got to do something else, right?

It's not the-- like, we always say the finish line always moves.

So yeah, I think it could be a both hand that you can enjoy your life and save some money and be wise with it. Wow. And also no amount of experiences will cure you if there's something going on inside. And so I want to tell you that it's 21-year-old, I think that will free you to go, there's

not a single trip that's going to go, well, that did it, I'm happy now. Like, it's all a femoral. It's all temporary.

“And so the key is, what's going on in you, in Caesar, that's even stirring this up?”

Yeah, well, like, I feel like it's more, like, I'm going to look out for the future because, like, right, every now and then, I'm like, wow, like, I'm happy right now in life, you know, just, I guess what, like, a lot of young people, it's like, I want a exotic car or, like, I want to mention one day, you know, I see, like, entrepreneurs go, like, they work seven

days a week, 15 hours a day for 10 years and they finally have it, but then they're, like,

monkey inside and at the same time, I got, I know people that just, like, have, like, the normal life and they go on vacations and, and they, they mess the little bit and later on, they're like, oh, I wish, you know, I guess what my fear is that I don't want to be limited by money in my life could be able to, like, to live, you know, if that makes sense. Uh, yeah, I think so, and I think it's just a mindset of what money is where money is placed

and your value system and how you see it. So if you worship money and you think it's the thing that is going to cure all, I think you're getting it to the end of your life and, like, you said, you're going to be, you're not having to show for it from a relationship standpoint, right, like, nobody lays on their deathbed and they're like, man, I wish I had a little bit more of my 401k, right?

They're asking for their family and their friends, like, the things that money can't buy in life. I really do believe are the things that give us the most joy and where we can actually find levels of contentment. We put our time and energy into our families and into our marriages and our friendships

and our spiritual life and our health, like these things are really, those are the important things in life. Our friends, Arthur Brooks talks about this though about how there's five things you can do with money, four will actually bring happiness and one will not, yes, and the one that will not sees or is everything you list it out, which is stuff, that's the one thing that,

like, from a chemical reaction in your brain, like, genuinely, scientifically, the stuff does not, it will give you a momentary hit, dopamine hit, but it doesn't pass, yep. So the things that will give you happiness that he talks about is spending money on experiences, especially with people you love buying your time back, that can bring happiness because you're not doing something you don't want to do, and you get to refocus that time, saving

money and investing, that actually brings happiness to set up your future self for success, and then generosity, making giving a habit in your life also brings you happiness. In fact, it's the most fun you can help with money. So the sooner you not only learn that but you believe it and you act it out and it becomes

“the habit in your life, the better your life is going to be.”

And my friends, the Hill Bloom wrote a book called The Five Types of Wealth and he goes through relationships, family, social, your physical health, money, and work, like all of those things combined, if you're healthy in all of those areas, you're going to be a happy person. Hmm, let's start out again, George, what are they?

So family, social life, relationships, your physical health, your finances and money, and lastly, your work.

Gosh, I just, I basically did the book, I just rambled off some stuff, but that's the

stuff money can't buy right there. Like, if you have a miserable job, you're going to be a miserable person. If you are broke your whole life stress, you're not going to be happy. Yeah, if your health is in poor shape, all you care about is your health at that point. And if you don't have good social relationships, you become the loneliest person on earth,

even with a pile of money, and in your big mansion. And you find that people who have the big mansions, who don't have a lot of people in

it's just so lonely, it just amplifies the loneliness. So all that to say, Caesar, you're on the right path that you're even asking this question. You're not, you're not calling saying, hey, I want to buy a Lamborghini. You're calling saying, hey, I know the Lamborghini's not going to bring me that joy. And the last thing I'm going to throw in there is faith, Caesar.

I don't know your faith background, but I would say, faith brings a deep level of grounding

and a deep level of joy that the, the worldly treasures can never give you.

That sermon hit you. Yeah, I'm like a little speechless right now because I thought, yeah, we're going to tell you something else that yeah, I guess, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, yeah, because like I just don't want to be like at the top of the hill and be like,

“oh, this is not what I wanted, you know, and 100% can you do me a favor, Caesar?”

Okay. Go ahead. Can I recommend a book to you if you promise me, you'll read it. And I'm not going to give it to you because you can access it for free right now, like on your phone.

Perfect. Read the book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible because this is a tail as old as time. And Solomon did a bigger and better than anyone else. And he has the best message for you at the end of it. Okay.

Have you heard of that book? Yeah. Okay. Great story.

Rich is man on earth, had it all and at the end he goes, everything is meaningless.

George Lois. Spoiler alert. George is such an Italy. I love an Emo book of the Bible that's just like, yes, dude. Like, it's like a gaugh kid, you know what are we doing?

Yes. We do it with our lives. But this is like, I have this existential crisis, you know, once a week where I go. What are we doing? I know.

When you just pan back, you go, okay, what really is that? And you know what? It's meaningful.

“That's why I like to the book, die was zero.”

Not that I agreed with everything in it. But you're like, okay, what do we do? Like, you know, you get to a point financially, which I get.

All of you listening, you'll, everyone is at a different place financially.

But, you know, if or when you get to that place of like, okay, you know, we've done it all. What am I doing? Am I just like stockpiling money and then when I die in my 80s or 90s, my 60 year old kids just get everything.

Like, is that it? And it's like, no, live the life life now. Like, yeah. And again, you have to set yourself up well to do that. So I'm not saying going to dad or spend everything every single month because no, that

is from a biblical perspective, that's going to call stress like that will. But, but getting to a point of like, okay, if you work hard and you're smart with money. And yes, and you're in, you know, mom and dad, I think they're a great example of this. They're an Argentina right now. They were tough in their best life.

They were tough in their best life. And it's very close. Waterfalls. But you know what I mean? But it's like, enjoy it.

And then they like love our family so well and they, you know, they take, take us all on a trip every year and it's like some of the best time. So it's like, spend some of your, like, yes, when you have it, spend some of it and enjoy it. And then the other part is the generosity part, George, which is exactly right.

When you actually have the means and the ability to reach into someone's situation and completely change their life, like, that is wild. And you know what? Like a $8,000 car for a single mom sometimes will do that or a $10,000 car. And you just pay for it and you just give it to her and that's it.

Right. I mean, like, that kind of stuff when you can use your money while you're alive to do those kinds of things, like, that is like, there's a level of satisfaction that you're actually using your money as a tool to create a life that you love. That's it.

In my book, I say, I talk about money so we can stop talking about money. Yes, yes, yes, yes. To become the tool that funds the rest of the things. That's right. That's right. And then ask yourself this question.

Is that why? Well, I brought up this one from Galatians because this is, this is really it for me. But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace for parents, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. That to me is the goal.

That's why we get our money, right? So that we can focus on. Have peace and peace and love and all the things that are on TJ Mac, Stitch Pillows. That's what it's about, Caesar. So I appreciate the call. It launched a good sermon for Rachel and I.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fair Wins Credit Union studio. I'm George Campbell joined by Rachel Cruz. The number to call is triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five.

“If you want to join the conversation, if not, just keep listening.”

You'll have a good time. Joseph is in New York City up next. Welcome to The Show, Joseph. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely.

Yeah. So I am glad to hear that I'm trying to sort through right now. It is my daughter is heading off to college this year. I do have two other kids to follow behind her, about four years apart, which is really amazing.

I have a lot of debt, about $200,000 worth of credit card debt and loans with personal loans in New York that does not include the mortgage or about, you know, pay about $4400 a month

So, you know, the issue that I'm having is that I make too much money that we don't

get in financial aid, we were fortunate enough that we got some merit aid. My daughter's going to be going to an SEC score and they're giving us like in-state tuition. So that helps a lot. But we're still going to be left with about $30,000 a year after the fact. So I'm stuck with the question, do I try to pay that in cash because I can work extra

that I could probably do that, do I take the $20,000 person that I parent plus loan out

“and make that put that extra money towards the debt that I have?”

I just don't know which way I go, my wife and I are, you know, not that we fight about

it, but we argue about what the heck we're going to do because we totally miscalculated and we just didn't know anything about toll and paying for college. I was still living in the 80s and 90s and things have changed since then. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, the affordability of college is tough, so we find that we are not a proponent of any kind of debt, just so no we will say no to the parent plus loan and we're

about going to a school that everyone can afford and it sounds like you guys can't afford this college. So that puts an awkward conversation in the air with the 18 year old because it's May and I'm sure the acceptance has already happened and the plans have already started

“rolling, but the truth is if you guys don't have the money to pay for this, you don't”

have the money to pay for it, so either you are a son or daughter who's going off to college works and finds a job and has a different looking college life than just sorority houses and flat parties and football games and you know, here she will be working and or they can't go to that school. At least not right now. Have they already like have they have it in their heads or going to this school? Yeah, how far are we? Yeah, we already we already committed.

Got the t-shirt and everything. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so let's talk through this. How much money do you guys make here? Combined income about $320,000. Okay, so help me understand how a family making $340,000 is $200,000 in consumer debt. What happened? So we have a lot of credit cards. You know, we have, I took a heat rock loan out probably about five or six years ago. There's about $50,000 on that. We had a roof leak. There was about $20,000 on that.

But what was what was happening to the actual income you had coming in? Because this is all outside of your, you know, 15 or 20 grand take home every month. Sure. What was that going? Just a lot of credit card miss spending bad bad bad decisions, bad decisions over a long

period of time. Yeah, that when we bought our first home, we were, again, I'm financially

illiterate and we'll take the full line on that. When we bought our first, when we bought our first home, our agent set us up with this financial person and then we were making the minimum payment at the time. But I didn't realize that despite me making the minimum payment, which I thought was satisfying everything. It was borrowing against the principle of the mortgage. And my principle is actually going up. So that put us in a hole there. But we have sent sold that house and have

moved on. I knew we couldn't afford the house that we lived in. We had a couple of friends, family, very, actually family to the front us of money so we could get the house right now. Our mortgage is about $4,400. And what's your take home every month? What's coming into the bank between the two of you? So my wife is about $6,000. This is take home after taxes. My wife is about $6,000. I'm about $9,000. We're about $10,000. That's before, before, over time and extra shifts.

Okay. I can work pretty much as many extra shifts as I can. And after taxes, I get about $1,000 per shift. Okay. After taxes. Cool. Well, the math should be pretty clear here on how we're going to cash flow this. And if that means it slows down your debt pay off a little bit to get

“her through this first year and buy you guys some time, that's what I would do. Because I do think”

it's a great goal for her to go to school debt free. But I think she needs to have some skin in the game versus dad just working his tail off so she can go enjoy the the flat parties and sorority

of debt using the debt snowball. So attacking the smallest one first, we need to rent, you know,

really dial down our lifestyle. Because my guess is your total expenses are close to 16

“came on, if not more. Yes, definitely. What's coming out of the bank account every month?”

Mortgage? I mean, is it more than 16 K? Or is there any money left over? No, no, there's I would say, you know, I was doing rough estimates over the last week or two. I would say it's roughly about that like 14, 15,000 that's coming out. Okay. Okay. So maybe it's about $1,000 more because these had 4,000 is the mortgage. Wait. Right. So you got $12,000 left. How much are all the payments on

all the debt? The credit cards and everything. Let me see. We have just paid a car off. We have

two cars that are about $700 total between the two. The he-lock is about $500 in months. We credit cards are at several thousand. It's a couple of thousand in a month. You know, it's like 30% interest, which is filling up. Yeah. I mean, I'm at 7,000 right now. I mean, it's just to the point, yes, that these are, and these things, I don't, we don't want you to get behind on. So yeah. So Joseph, I would sit down tonight and we'll give you

every dollar or budgeting app. We'll give you a year subscription to it because I would want, if I

were you, you and your wife to sit down and list out everything that we spend money on in the

month. And my, my hope is and why since is that you guys are going to look up and be like, oh crap, three to $4,000 is just getting blown on subscriptions and just whatever whatever the flip we want to do. And all of that has to be tightened up to not only pay off this debt, but if you guys are serious about this college of starting to save to cash flow and have to make payments for this college, forward payments, not back payments of debt. And so getting on a really strict budget,

Joseph, I mean, even looking at selling some of these cars, if you want, like, whatever you can

“do to get out of this as fast as possible is what you need to do. Yeah, I would not turn to any more”

debt. That's what's got us here. It's not going to get us out. So no more parent plus loans, no more just kind of phoning it in. You guys make too much to be there for the credit cards. We've done with them. Dave Ramsey here, most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people.

You work way too hard to be broke and feel broke and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the every dollar budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money to show you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen.

Starting now. Go download every dollar in the app store or Google Play and start for free today. Today's Ramsey show a question of the days brought to you by Wi-Refi. If you've lost control of your private student payments, your financial progress has stalled out, but Wi-Refi helps far worse explore refinancing options with payments built around their real life situations. Learn more at Wi-Refi.com/Ramsy. That's the letter YREFY.com/Ramsy. May not be available in all states.

Today's question comes from Susie and Washington. I recently paid off my Tesla. Well, I love that. As two Tesla drivers, we appreciate that.

“And have $20,000 in credit card debt. Should I take a loan against my 401k to knock out that debt?”

Not in a thousand years. No, no, no. You paid off a Tesla. Use the same intensity and get rid of the credit card debt. The problem with this loan against the 401k is there's multiple reasons. Number one, you are unplugging all of that compound growth that was happening. Yes. So that $10,000 loan you took out against your 401k is now not growing for you.

and that you're going to pay taxes as you pay it back in while paying interest on it. So no, I would not do this 401k loan and it also puts you at risk with your employer. And we've gotten this call recently of I got laid off. I got fired and now the entire loan is due within 30 days. Yes. Or else it gets counted as an early withdrawal. Yes. And then it's IRS penalties. That's right. And if you know the money, it's just gone then. Yep. And it doesn't change the behavior that got you here.

It feels like a little short cut. Yes. Rob in your future self. That's right. We say to never

cash out retirement. That's 401k's, Roth IRA's, traditional IRA's unless you are facing a bankruptcy or foreclosure. So we are not pulling it out to pay the house off early. We are not pulling it out to pay off consumer debt. So none of that. No withdrawals, no loans. That's right. None of it. Just pay it off with your future income, with your savings, with your gazelle intensity. We got it all. She's doing it. Susie's on it. Yeah. Pain. I don't know how much that Tesla was and

what the loan was, but if you can knock that out. Yeah. Hopefully it freed up a couple hundred bucks in the payment and throw that at the credit cards. Love it. Thanks for the question, Susie.

“All right. Azalea is in Ralee up next. What's going on, Azalea?”

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So I want to know if it's a smart idea for my husband and I too invest in his business or

or should we pay off all of our debt first. We have about, I forgot about his 401k. I was just

listening to whatever was going on on the phone, but we have about $15,000 that he loaned it to got his 401k that we need to pay back and about $25,000 in credit card debt. We don't have any car payments and our household income is around 200,000 a year and he, his business is growing and he wants to invest a trailer or dump trailer and a new truck that the van he has is so old. It just, it can't do it work that he needs reliably. So with the truck and the dump trailer,

it would be a total of about $70,000. But that would immediately, he would be making around $2,000. Amons extra immediately with the work that he would be doing. Okay, so he wouldn't recoup that. That's like five years for a D3 to, yeah. And you guys would have to go into debt for this. Yes, we have zero. We don't have any savings at all like cash. We do have assets, but we don't want to like touch that. What do you mean? So we, so we have land, we own land. We bought that cash

“and we have gold. We have a total of that at those assets is around $90,000. How much is the gold?”

About 50. What are you hanging on to that for? Is this like a apocalypse?

Yeah, so like rainy day, you never know what's going to happen. We just want to be able to

get more than a rainy day. Like the world is kind of like a rainy day is like, well, the track goes out, but you're not going to pay your age track out gold. I'm sure you take all right, it's well. So it's just for us, it's just a question that we feel comfortable with. God forbid something really bad where to happen. We feel like we have that to like, you know, it'd be easier to grab a piece of gold and trade versus like selling land food. What about money? Did we forget

money is an option? Yeah. So with all of that being said, we don't know what to do if we should just

“pay off our debts completely or if we should invest. No, you should not invest. No, because the return”

is opposite. If you said, I need to get a 2000, which we had this call, I think earlier this week or last week, I need $2,000 to get a new license for my for my career and I'm going to make $5,000 more a month because of it, and it's like done. That's different. And this is flip flopped. This is $70,000 of debt to make $2,000 more. Even if you had the cash, I would sell this probably for drivers at night and make $2,000 more. Okay. So no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So pay off the debt.

So I also had just balances. So it's wrong. I'm telling you, I would and you're not going to do it. I take that gold and I pay off your pay off your debt. You guys will be debt free. You'll have some cash from that. And then use that to slowly save up to invest in his business for his for like the truck, like one, one thing or the other, right? Because I do want him to be able to grow his business, but we got to do it at the speed of cash and not at the detriment

of slowing down getting out of consumer debt. So how much does he make a year off this business?

he's able to run his business. His main job pays out about 110. Okay. And then he makes around

40 to 50,000 with his business. So that's okay. I mean, you make another 40 or 50. Yeah, I'm a home baker. So I make money from home. I'm home with my kids. I home school man. Okay. Okay. So yeah, that's your 50 to 60. So from a from a business perspective, I would have, as I'm sure you guys do, you know, his own

“business account with that and then I would break out. Yes, how what's the cheapest truck I can get?”

Not a new nice truck. Like, what's the cheapest truck I can get to do? What I need to do? Make that, you know, that goal number one after you guys have paid off debt. Okay. Yeah, I have an emergency. Yeah. And then then the, you know, what was it? It was the truck in a what credit cards? I think for the next. Don't trailer. Yeah, or one or the other. Yeah, right. So like, yeah, but we're going to be cash slowing those purchases.

It's easy to try to justify it with the money on the other side. The problem is that's not a guarantee.

And we're not doing the math on what it's really going to cost us the break even all of that. So I would pay off all of your debt. Now, I personally would sell the gold. Otherwise, you're just going to be, I would love for you guys to sacrifice and get rid of this debt over, you know, a fast period of time. But the scary part is to me is that you guys are making it bring in home $12,000 a month and yet you still turn to debt. So what's causing

that behavior underneath it? Well, the, the debt majority of our debt was from when we moved from

“we moved from New Jersey. And honestly, it was completely my fault. I accumulated a lot of”

debt buying things that were unnecessary. And that was a lot of your debt. And also, yes, it has. And the other debt that we have a credit card was from investing in my business. I've invested

a total of $50,000 in my business, which means basically I've only made $10,000 last year.

Investments, however, have stopped. I have everything I need to continue making money. So at this point, it's just how you got to make it my fault. And I do want you to, I want you guys to critically think though of the situation, I keep going back to let's go $70,000 in debt. We'll make two grand more a month. But the debt payment on that may be $1,000 between the truck and the trailer, you know, so that you're really only making $1,000 a month. And again, plus there's interest.

Yeah, people are doing that dog sitting. Do you know what I'm saying? Like I'm just like just keeping perspective of reality of these numbers, because it's not to me. It's like a non-starter. So I'm just so afraid to sell the gold, because we bought like $20,000 worth and now it's at $50. So I'm afraid to... Oh, then all that. Are we doing this again, Rich? Or are we doing this to you know, secure ourselves in case when apocalypse? Because right now, you're mixing a lot.

You told me it's just in case. And now you're keeping it because now it's like, well, we could make more golds. The fear commodity. When fear happens, which is happening right now, the markets kind of up and down, the war, everything. That does. Yes, if that goes down, the markets already come back up,

“I would get rid of the gold and get off the internet. Because that's what's caused you to buy this.”

If the internet didn't exist, you don't zero months ago. Back where cable news, it's all gold and reverse mortgages and walkin' bathtubs. Let's not, let's don't go down that path. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help any time with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show.

Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell here with Rachel Cruz. You've heard us mention every dollar. And if you're working the baby steps, the best and

fastest way to do it is by using the every dollar app. And it's more than just start budgeting app. Now, the plan is built right in. And the singular focus of every dollar is to create margin to throw at your focused financial goal. You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations

for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Diane is in Philadelphia up next.

Diane, welcome to The Show.

“Hello. And thank you for this opportunity to get your advice.”

Oh, we're honored to give it. Hopefully it's good. So we've to open it through. But anyway, let me give you some facts. I'm a caregiver for both my parents. They live with me in my home. They were divorced when I was like 12 years old and they each remarried and each of those spouses have passed. So I've had my dad that they each

have been mentioned to, by the way. But I've had my dad for eight years and I've had my mom

for five. My mom had a condo, which we kept. I didn't sell it. I rented it out. I was a landlord too. What all of this? That's a part-time job too, girl. So anyway, I've rented it out for about four years. This in a really quaint little town, really nice town that I'd like to move to. When all this is done. But my question is, okay, the venom moved out. I've had it for about a year. Why I use it to go to just relax and get some rest. But I have a sister. I'm a power attorney.

We're both on the will for both of them to receive one-half each. I want to know the condo still has a mortgage on it. And most of the mortgage payment, not most of it, about half is still going to enter it. So what I'd like to do is pay off the mortgage. Many mortgage on the condo. My sister has said she hasn't been helping up and going most of it by myself. She just started helping maybe about eight months ago. She said that she would forfeit her inheritance for the condo.

Just because it would have been gone anyway. Had they been in an nursing home or anything like that,

“they would have taken any assets they had or that my mom has. So I want to know one, is it okay?”

It would have been a good to pay off the mortgage. It's about thirty to three thousand left.

And second, if I should get what my sister said in writing so that, you know,

problem, you know, in inheriting that property and having it for myself to move into. Okay, so you're saying you're going to, you want to take the condo and she'll take the rest of the inheritance. No, I mean, what do you mean? Any other, there are no other assets as ever to answer. Oh, it's just the condo. Right now, we are from my mom. Yeah, perfect. Yes, she's- So what is her sister getting in this? She wouldn't be getting anything. Not from my mom.

My dad, my father has money. I've been, you know, good to do it if his money says he has money left. Okay. And they each have insurance, but like an insurance policy that's, that's like a we could have for life insurance. Yeah, but my mom is a small policy. Okay. It's only about 15,000. Okay. So, but on my dad's side, she would get money. She hasn't really done anything for, yeah, I was going to say the compensation of you being

the caregiver is something usually most siblings, you know, talk about because to your point, you would be paying for someone to be doing this and you've been doing that. And so some states, you can get paid to be the caregiver of your parents. But they don't, yeah, you'd have to be on Medicaid and, you know, they'd have to spend down all their assets, and what, you know, they don't have a need on my,

“so it would be going. So how much is the condo worth if you were to sell it?”

Yeah, the market value right now is some, I should say only, but it's about 130, 130. Okay. Okay. Okay. So one bedroom, one bedroom, condo. Yeah. So, so technically, if it was paid off and that was the asset that you girls had, that you, you and your sister had a split, then to buy her out, you would have to pay $65,000. Yeah. Yeah. To pay her out. Yeah. But you're saying you have 33,000, that you could do just to pay it off right now. I could pay the mortgage, so my mom wouldn't be paying

an interest, you know, on that, because I am using, she gets a monthly pension. So a small page about 2500 a month, and I use part of that to pay the mortgage. Yeah, because at the end,

You'd have to continue to pay the payments on your own. Yeah. I'd be paying it anyway. Well, yeah, exactly. That's the thing. You're getting writing that you're going to get your money, you put into it, plus your share, then I think that's fair. Yeah. You just may have to still continue to buy her. There may still be a difference, but I wonder if you can add up from an hour's perspective of the caregiving, and just see if your sister wouldn't go shit with you, like some of it off,

just for what you would have done. Well, even at that, it's a saver. If she was in a nursing home,

“that's why I've figured if she was in a nursing home, I just a mediocre nursing home nowadays,”

it's like $9,000 a month. And it's $350 a day. So, um, that's what you're saving by you being the caregiver. Yeah, that's what it is that she didn't eat. Six figures a year easily. I've, in that head of five years, so I've figured I've earned a verance of the, that's my point of view, but I want to do it. Have you mentioned that you, have you said that's your sister at all? Yeah, she did, yeah, she said, yeah, she can have it, but saying it, and that's what I'm saying.

So she's good with it, but you shouldn't get it in writing, because you're like, it's a handshake agreement right now. We need this in writing. Right, exactly. So just say, hey, I'm working with my state planner. We just want to formalize some of these things and get it in writing, so that we're clear. There's no confusion. And you guys have a good relationship right now. It's better when she wasn't helping out. It wasn't so good. Okay. There was enough pause

there that I went, okay. It's just a slight pause, but yeah, you want to salvage what's left of the relationship at least, and it can go south when, you know, family passes, you're grieving, and now you're like, well, you said that. And now she's looking at the numbers going, well,

I could, I'd love to see her in my pocket. Yeah, I never said that. Yeah, exactly.

And she, she doesn't, she never listened to me. I've been telling her about your program. I'm, I'm debt-free, but they're, they're, and, you know, in dire, not dire strings, but, you know,

“not necessarily, they're struggling. That's not a matter to help me. I offer to money. That's how”

she's helping you. Yeah. Well, I think what you're doing is very fair. You sound like a real noble, sweet person. I mean, the fact that you've, you know, given your life to care for your family at this point is, you're amazing. Incredible. They're, they're so lucky to have you in their life. And that's a much better life than being in a nursing home, by the way. The quality of care that you're giving them is priceless. So I appreciate the call and I wish you the best, you know,

formalizing all of this. For sure. Yeah, I was going to say, if you called to get permission to, if it's formalizing, okay, yes, it should be a requirement. And so I would, and should I pay off, shall I play off the mortgage now? Once it's formalized, I think it's wise to go, if you get the money sitting around, burn in the hole in your pocket, and don't want to deal with the mortgage

in the interest, it'll definitely give you some peace of mind. But make sure it's formalized first.

And then you can decide if you keep the economy. I'm going to think of the, okay, all right, thank you so much. Absolutely. Thank you for the call Diane. I love that we're talking about this now. What a jewel of a human. Yeah, and two parents would dementia. I cannot imagine. That's so hard, so hard. Wow. That's a lot of work. And the other thing to think about here is power of attorney, which it can be very difficult once they have lost the cognitive ability to make

decisions. So depending on the diagnosis, you know, I would be talking to the doctor in the state planning attorney to fill you out. Make sure everything we get financial power of attorney

“to move the money around, make financial decisions on their behalf. That's an important piece of”

the puzzle, too. But I appreciate the call. This is the, the hard stuff you deal with. And the baby steps don't make any of this easier. It just takes away the stress of money problems on top of all of this. So I'm so glad that you followed the plan Diane, your debt free. You have options because you set yourself up for that kind of life, for that kind of flexibility, for that kind of generosity. Because if you were broke, you wouldn't have many options. You wouldn't be able to take

care your family the way you are. You wouldn't be able to pay off the condo. So I appreciate you being a living example of what life looks like when you follow this plan. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who

guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first

call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at RamseySolutions.com/Agin. That's RamseySolutions.com/Agin.

we are wasting away yet inwardly, we are being renewed day by day. Thomas Edison said many of

life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. There we go. Thanks for the light bulb, my guy. We got a lot of lights in here. Thanks to you.

“Never give up. All right, Michael's in Louisville up next. What's going on, Michael?”

Hey, Harry down there. We're doing great. Just having a good time. So, my question is, I've just recently came across, I'm a financial reset myself, and came across a decent sum of money, and I'm looking to see moving forward. What is the best way to be a good godly steward of what I've got? Oh, it's a great question. How much money has come upon you, Michael?

Well, I don't believe it or not, I just sold a baseball card for over $300,000. Come again now. What card was this? Tell us the deal. How do we get into the business? Literally, I'm telling you, when the card shop finances have been tight and it's been a lot of money. I've been selling a lot of baseball cards to help pay. I'm paying bill out of this winner. And so, I thought I owed it to myself to go buy some more. And so, I bought a box that had two cards

and that had been pulled a one of one of Conniger factors, which just sold an auction for $324,000. Oh, my God. That is why. That is correct. So, is this like an auction that will handle this off for you and they take a fee? Yes, so they've already taken in this already sold. I've already gotten a large cash advance and the rest of it comes out within the next week through a wire transfer.

“Wow. All right. What's your net worth currently? Without this card?”

Without this card, I mean, I've never been a day brand of the financial unently for a

circle of credit cards early on and kind of never was able to get out of that hole. I've got investment properties just a few, how the wife and I. And so, we have, we're in really good shape on those. And thanks to this baseball card, completely debt-free with the exception of mortgages. Oh, great. Because you don't have credit card debt anymore. I've defeated off. But you have your primary home as a mortgage? Well, he had it before the baseball

card. How much did you have before the baseball card? I'm just curious. I've been very saying probably 40, some thousand. Okay. Because that part of you has not changed. Okay. The guy that got $40,000 in credit card debt, he's still there. He's still in you, okay? And you just were able to wipe it off with the same party of rain that impulsivity that caused you to go on a credit card debt is the same one that got you that card. It just happened to work out

this time. Right. So, I'm just saying we got to be cautious, okay? Because. Okay. Meaning, I'm glad you paid it off. But do you know what I'm saying? You had no emotional sweat equity, if you will, by paying off $40,000 a credit card debt. It didn't take you a year with extra jobs and you had to really sacrifice. It was just some one-fail swoop. It was gone. So, nothing in you has really changed. So, it's just a red flag. It's a marker.

Just easy to go back in. Yep. Just a marker of, hey, I got to be aware that that is my

“that's my propensity is to go into debt. So, we got to remember that. Okay.”

Okay. But just to say this, I have definitely changed. It'll give me a new perspective on life. I knew it's given my wife and I, financial breath. The stress is just completely gone. I understand the impulse is maybe there, but I'm very much aware of what this is and that things need to change moving forward. Good. Okay. I'm so glad. So, glad you said that. Yes. So, what's left on the mortgages? So, with investment properties, we have about 230

that's owed and then I'm sorry, 3, 320 that's owed on investment properties and 100 and some on personal mortgage. Okay. And you guys have savings already? We've got a little bit. Not much. Okay. And what's the amount that's sitting there from the card right now? Um, we thought we were 200,000 coming. Okay. Great. So, you can fully fund an emergency fund of 36 months of expenses and still have 160 grand, 175 grand. Yes. And that would pay off your primary

mortgage. Correct. Okay. Well, um, first of all, I got to give, um, I mean, I know that I need to

give something back to the Lord here. And, um, we weren't done with the list, so I'm just walking through the things you could be doing. We're going to give someone a choice. So, I'd be sure. I just want to see what was left over after you pay it down the mortgage and set aside the emergency fund. All right. So, I understand. Would there be a good chunk left over after that? Um, I know there was another, um, secondary, like a how might be a lot of credit that I've paid

all as well. So, I'm looking at, as it says, with mortgages and about 1,000 over 200,000.

Um, the primary is about 180, the heloc is paid off and then I have investment properties.

Okay. The helocs paid off. So, we don't invent. It's out of the picture now. Great. Yes. Okay. So, what I'm thinking is we set aside the emergency fund. If we have enough to pay off the mortgage completely, let's do that. And then the rest, let's give someone a choice on. That sounds good. Any different thoughts on that, Rachel? No. I freeze up a mortgage payment. So, I love that idea. Yes, for sure. Uh, yes. One of my, one of my mortgages has like eight and a half

percent, which is higher than everything else. If, uh, 55,000 for one of properties, I thought I'd

“get rid of that one just because I was going to say, yeah, how many, how many investment properties do you have?”

Um, I have, uh, four. Okay. And they all have mortgages on them.

Yes, but they're all, I mean, there's, I'll, there's plenty of equity in all of them. But the highest interest rate is one that 55,000. If you sold, I'm just curious. Um, if you sold all, all, all four investment properties. I'm just curious. And paid off all the mortgages. How much equity, how much cash would y'all be sitting on? If we sold everything, still all the investment properties and paid off my mortgage. No, no, no, no, didn't pay off yours.

Pay off the mortgages on those properties. So, what would you net out? Oh, with the money from the card, there's not enough money to argue with the other. No, no, no, no, no, Michael, you have four properties. Here we have time. We got three minutes. Okay, how much, how much is one of the properties? How much do you, how much is it worth and how much you owe? I'm property number one. 94 is what's owed and the 120 is what it's worth. 120, okay, property two. 55 is owed, 120 is what it's worth? 120, okay, property three. 80 is what's owed, 160 is what it's worth? 150.

“160. 60, all right, so we got, I think it's the last one. Yep, property property.”

80 is owed, 180 is what it's worth. Okay, got it. Okay, so we got, I got like, 280, George, my math right. I'm, I'm chicken scratching on this. 271 final answer Bob. 279, oh, it's pretty quick. I, I'm round. It's a rounder. So that's, you know, that's before any kind of, closing costs and realtor fees, but let's call it 250 ish. 250, just for the heck of it, equity that's in some of these. Okay, I'm just trying to pay, I'm just, I'm trying to get it's different scenarios. When you come into a pile of money,

there's a lot of, and, and because you guys have so many things happening in your life, um, and you're asking us, the word steward is on the screen, which I, you brought God into. You brought God in, so we're going to talk about that. We'll go there. And my passion, I've talked about like a possible foundation with a little bit of money or, you know, how paying for some of this thing, generosity comes from overflow. And right now, you know, if you look at Proverbs, the bar worse life to the lender. Yes,

so we're going to be able to call world view with our money. Every time debt is mentioned, then scripture, Michael, it's in a negative fashion. It is not a sin, so you're not going to like go to hell, because you have a heel lock, like none of that, okay? It's not a hell, it's in he lock. You don't know, I did, that's true. I'll let her go there. You know, you don't have to confess anything, like it's not a sin, but every time it is mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse on your family,

“you are a slave to the lender. It is not good. Like nowhere in debt, in scripture is debt good, okay?”

So, Michael, I'm going to be a little hard on you, but you've been playing around the edges and the fringes of this debt world. He locks and credit cards and four mortgages. I mean, it is like, you have become, you have loved debt. Like you do, you use debt as a tool, and it's gotten you in a really bad spot. And now, this is going to be so sad for Rachel, so it's going to say like, get out of hell free card, get out of hell free card, came upon you. So, if we're going to go all in

with the biblical perspective, let's go all in. And let's just pay everything off, let's sell everything. Let's start with no debt. And if you did that, you would have probably almost 300,000 back in your pocket after you sell everything and pay off the premium with the proceeds of the card. $300,000 in the black Michael. You got this, man. Hey, that puts the sour in the books. Remember,

there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace,

Christ Jesus.