Financial Peace Starts With Personal Honesty

Normal is broken common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, no one bestowing off her co-host with this smart money happy hour on Ramsey Networks. And my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at Triple 8-825-25.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Logan is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I Logan, what's up? Hey, hey, don't do that. Better than I deserve.

How can we help sir? I started a business 18 months ago, I've been working 72 hundred hours a week, where now we're barely breaking even, I have two full-time jobs and I have a seven-week-old home. So I'm wondering at what point do you decide when to exit the business and if there's a good workflow for that, I guess just kind of a general question around that, what you

thought would be? Okay. Well, you exit a business not when it's hard because a hundred percent of the time you're on a business is hard. You exit a business when you lose hope that in a reasonable period of time this is going

to be profitable and all of my effort is going to be worth the trouble. We don't want to run a business for ten years, it's not profitable, that's called a hobby in a bad one, right?

“But you're a whole year in, when did you think you were going to be profitable?”

Well, I predicted about three years before we started, I started being able to take any money out of the business, but I thought it would be self-sustaining about where we're at right now and where you thought it'd be breaking, even? Yeah, I thought it'd be, whether you're afraid, I thought I could pay somebody to run it part-time.

Oh, I know. And I actually have somebody running it part-time, we have a, it's a slowly, it's not killing me unless I, well, with the, so it loses money to pay somebody to run it, yes, for

the first eight months we were open, I have a, I work from home, I actually worked.

What do you do? What is the business? The business is, it's a gym and then there's actually a second business which is a supplement shop within that business, sorry, there's two of them, technically. You open the gym, yep, has a side hustle.

Uh, I guess, yes, yeah, okay. Are either one of those profitable, the, the gym itself or the supplements business inside of the gym? Yes, inside of the gym, yes, the gym is profitable, they, together, the gym is profitable, and then the supplements, I actually, that's where I run my payroll out of it, and that

has a slight loss every month, so they about break even with it, like maybe $100 to $100 a month loss. Okay.

“So you can handle $100 a million, what, what is your income on your regular job?”

Well, with between the two of them, I take home about, no, you don't, you don't take anything home from the gym? No, with from the jobs, they, they, two other jobs, you have two other jobs, I'm sorry, stop again. You have two jobs in addition to the gym?

Yes. Okay. So what is your main career? I made data analyst. Okay.

And what do you make as a data analyst? I, I grossed 200 with both jobs. And they're both data analyst jobs? Yeah. Yep.

Okay.

“So, is there one that is substantially more than the other, or 100 each?”

There about a hundred each. One has significantly better benefits. The other one's a contract position, which is renewed every six months, so it's not guaranteed, I guess. It's not guaranteed employment.

Okay. And your wife is at home with the baby. Correct. Okay. So you're making $200,000 a year.

You have a business is living, losing $100 a month. Yes. I don't know, what's the problem?

The problem is, it's not, it's actually, it's in a negative, I don't have the time,

right now I don't have the time to put into the business because I have both jobs. Well, you had that one who started the business. Yeah. And we were doing, we were doing well. And then I got the second job to add somebody to run it.

And it needs about 15 hours a week of my attention to, you know, it needs some overview

of the day-to-day taken care, but it needs, you know, a growth trajectory. Yeah. That didn't change though.

“That's what you signed up for a year ago.”

Yep. Okay. So what you've added to your plate that is causing things to fall off of your plate is the contract job. It's not the gym.

Yes, but I need the contract job because I need to get out of debt. I have at least, I need to pay off at least 20,000 in debt. Yes. Oh, you have debt? I haven't had, yes.

The gym has about $80,000 in debt to start about.

Oh, Jesus, what a bad idea. Yeah. I learned that the hard way. Oh, man. I'm catching on now.

Okay. I was looking at the income streams. I didn't think about that. I'm sorry. My bad.

Okay. The business. How old are you? $29. Okay.

Can you cut the contract back to half the number of hours for $50,000? I can ask. It's an hourly rate. So possibly. Okay.

To where you can breathe, actual logistics on just time. Okay. We have a full-time job, plus a part-time job, then, plus another part-time job at the gym. Because we really just can't walk away from the $80,000 in debt one year and when it's

doing exactly what was projected to do.

“The only thing that changed is you just kept adding crap because you wanted to get the”

$80,000 paid off and you can't get it all done in a day. Uh, essentially. You stress yourself out by adding stacks of stacks of stuff to your plate. And the baby made you realize that. Yeah, that was, that was the straw, that was the straw, the broke the camel's back.

You know. And that's okay. That's a great straw. If you're going to have one, that's the one to have. But the, uh, yeah.

So, you know, what I'm going to do is I'm going to sit down, look at this, and I'm going to talk to my wife and I'm going to say, all right, for four more months, six more months, two more months, eight more months, I'm going to keep the exact schedule I'm keeping right now. So, I can keep 200 coming in and I'm going to knock x out of that $80,000 and it's going

to cost us because I am burning the candle at both ends and in the middle. But I can't do that forever. I can do it for this amount of time. And we're prayerfully going to, you know, you're going to give me a lot of grace and you're not going to expect super dad to be there every time the kid poops his diaper.

I've got to get this thing out of the ditch, okay. And I started this business when Rachel was a baby and it was 80 hours a week and sharing

and I agreed to that and she never wind one time after we agreed to that.

But we also said there's a limited amount of time a human being can do this without exploding.

“And so you need to decide what that is, you're sensing that things are on fire because”

they're on fire. So the way to survive that is to go as close to the fires you can get without getting burned and go, okay, the most I can do is 90 more days and then I'm going to pull back to part time on the contract so that I can breathe again. But in the meantime, I'm going to pour the calls on and see how much this debt I can knock

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See website for full details. [music] Kate is in Billings, Montana. Hi, Kate. How are you?

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

“I wanted to talk to you today about my husband.”

He loves new trucks, and he has switched trucks about seven times in the last six years, and he changed vehicle twice last year. And so he usually just text me when he's making this change, and I've tried to talk to him about how it's a bigger deal than that because we are usually losing money on this transaction. No, every time.

Yes. So I just wanted your thoughts. How much do you guys make a year, Kate? So he's actually making quite a bit of money now, but this is new for us.

So he founded his own technology company, doing logistics, and it grossed about a million

dollars last year. What did it now? I think 1.4. In netted, you paid taxes on a million dollars? Yes.

Gross in net is different. You know that. Okay. Sorry. I'm like, okay.

What did you bring home? What hit your account? Your household income? What did you bring home? Our household income was over 600.

I know we owed a ton in taxes, so. Okay. So he can afford to lose the money. But he's disrespecting his wife. Yes.

So we have three kids and he's my second husband. And so this is just all. I think it's just all. We're still going for your own pain. That's how do we manage money together.

And a seven year, you ought to be able to figure it out.

You can grow a company that makes 1.2 million.

You ought to be able to figure out how to manage money. Yeah. He just hasn't bothered. He's kind of running around those whatever the flippy wants to do. Because he's making money and he doesn't, you know.

And in the process is disrespecting you. That's how I feel. Yeah. No, that's what it's observable. It's not just a feeling.

Okay. What does he say when you text him?

“Or what's his response when you guys talk about it?”

And you're frustrated? What does he say? I just like. So it typically it gets us into an argument because he kind of. I don't think he likes the until what to do or you know how to spend his money.

But he denies that he's he's disrespecting me or not. You know, consulting with me.

But his idea of consulting with me is basically just telling you.

Texting me, telling me what he's going to do. So that's kind of where we're in this agreement. Okay. He's going to fail as an entrepreneur. And the reason I know that is I coach 10,000 businesses through Entry Leadership.

And entrepreneurs who do not listen to their wives don't make it long term. You cannot out earn that level of stupidity. I tried it. It didn't work. And it'll get you.

Okay. So the arrogance that is attached to this means he's also not listening to his key leaders when they're speaking up and saying this is a dumb idea. He's not listening to anybody. Because he's freaking thinks he's Superman.

And this is going to lead to him hitting the wall. So I'm scary. I'm really, really afraid for him. Because right now, this isn't a big enough problem that it's actually causing him any discomfort.

But the root of this is very, very dangerous from a business perspective. Because leaders that don't have humility and take input from proper sources do not lead well. And it's pretty simple. And so, I mean, I've got key people on this team.

Some of them been with me 30 years. And they're like brothers and sisters to me. And they speak into the Ramsey thing that happens here. And believe you meet to the extent that she wants to share and Ramsey speaks into this place.

And what's going on? Do we do every single thing sharing wants to do? No, but we don't do every single thing day once through either. So, but you guys have a breakdown in your relationship and the power of the relationship.

It's almost as if he has his life over to one side. And then he comes home and has a family.

“Well, that's what feels always a little bit off.”

It's just showing it. Yeah, and even when he uses, like, well, I've been making a lot of money. So I get to go over here, right? It's like this. It turns into this isolated instance where that's the opposite of

marriage, right? When you're married to someone and you're doing life with someone, it should be integrated, right? You're still going to have your own thoughts and opinions. It's not that.

But it's that we make big decisions together. We talk about this. We are united in these things. So all of this to say that your frustration with this, I think,

Now, what to do about it is another thing.

I'm afraid for him long term. Five years from today, this is not going to be pretty as my prediction. And again, we coach 10,000 businesses here at Ramsey. We work with small businesses every day.

And I see them come and I see them go and I watch what happens.

“So what I would say is that I think you guys have a marriage”

problem that has a deep, deep route to it. And I would say that I love you guys. And I want the two of you to get some healing in that. And so if I'm, if you're my little sister, I'm going to say, hey, Kate, um, start up some trouble.

And let's get into the marriage counselor's office. Because he thinks this is okay. And you've let it go on. And you're going to get what you tolerate. And any level of belittling, what you're feeling and thinking to, right, they used the term gas lighting all the time.

But genuinely, you start to feel crazy, Kate, right? And until your voice and your opinion is heard and actually honored, like, that's going to start breaking down in other areas, not just buying a new truck every year. Yeah. And it's already breaking down a stuff down the office.

That she don't even know's happening. Promise you. And it could even be worse than that. I hope it's not. But these are symptoms that don't lead. Well, and of course, problems. I don't lead to good places.

No, and it's a perfect example of how money is a magnifying glass and make sure more of what you are.

But this was always a little bit of him.

And then he goes and makes a million bucks. You know, and it just, it starts to magnify. And that's the danger that money can do. And when you, and when you win financially, really quickly, like you guys have over, you know,

one to two years, it's almost like, you know, he doesn't even have the emotional capacity to handle it. He's just still that little boy in hell. That's just being magnified. He's going to buy a new truck, you know, and so.

I want to talk a truck. Yeah, that's that's tough. I'm four. I want to know, talk a truck, Mommy. Don't tell me I can't have it.

Yeah. Let's see. Other thing, too, is I'm like, Kate's a smart woman. And if you look at the numbers to your point, they can afford that. Like if you wanted to go do that.

Honestly, he can afford to do it.

“That's what I'm saying. It's like it's not even that she would say.”

And I think that's not really there. But it's just that I'm afraid he's scratching in it. That's not, yes. It's not really there. So chasing the newness.

I love cars. I'm a car guy. And I like cool cars and fun cars. And I buy cars. But I don't have a an emotional need to flip a truck every year.

I'm perfectly happy with the one I got, you know, and so there's something in that too. Yeah, I mean, you know, you just got to get there. There's something going on. So you guys, you really need to sit down with someone that forces him

to hear that it's not necessarily the transaction. That's bothersome. It's the way the transaction is going down. And that you're not being heard and you're not being respected and you're not.

So you're not crazy. And I'm afraid that the stuff that's under this is going to come to Roost in a way.

“You all aren't going to like in the long term.”

I'm pretty sure it will. And I unless unless you fix it. Yeah, unless he comes aware and you come, you know, all of it and you guys start a new, a new process of life of the way you look, look at things and

think about things and process things all of it out of healing. So if you're out there and you're running a small business and your spouse has no idea what's going on with the business that's a problem. That's what I'm telling you.

You're small business people. You listen to me. Okay. You bootstrap stuff. You fight.

You scratch your claw. You're in a battle every day. You got the battle axe out and the sword out and three guns out and you're fighting and fighting and fighting and fighting and fighting and fighting and just to stay alive.

And you finally start making some money.

But in the middle of that, you become very, very lonely if you do not have people walking with you in leadership. And that and who can find a virtuous wife for her. Worth this far above Ruby's.

The heart of her husband safely trusts her. And he will have no lack of gain. You want no lack of gain? I want no lack of gain. I like that formula.

Then trust of virtuous wife. Hmm. In the multitude of counsel, there's safety. I bet you 10 rich friends get around him. None of them were telling to buy a truck every stinking year.

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and select loan types only and not available in all state locations. In the next slide, we'll see you in the next slide. Well, the Ramsey Show. Watching this show happen. As we tape it right in front of you,

it's going on tour. Next month.

“In April, we're going to be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim.”

If you've never experienced the Ramsey Show in person,

then you've never seen it like this before. It's a perfect date night. One of you is a Spender. One of you is a saver. Come out.

Rachel, John, George, J.D. Ken will settle your money debates right there in front of all the people in the audience. [laughter] Tickets are almost sold out,

but not quite. You left and just a couple of VIP seats remaining. Don't wait. Go to RamseySolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes.

If you're listening on podcast or YouTube, Michael's in Green Bay. Hey, Michael. What's up? Hey, Dave.

It's nice talking to you. I listen to your show quite a bit. And I am about 20 years old with about 50 grand in debt. 30 of that being a car loan, three of it being from a square loan from the business that I shut down here recently.

And some of it's medical, like just outstanding medical debt. I mean, I was in motorcycle accident three years ago, that I saw them paid. I owe a friend of a family friend about three grand.

I owe like a tire shop, almost two grand. Like, I guess my question that I want to ask you today is, like, I don't know where to start with. This means it feels like a lot. And then I truthfully don't know where a lot of the debt is.

Like, I owe a Durham metallurgy group, sorry. Like 800 bucks. And I owe like other medical companies money. And I just don't know exactly where all that debt is. Where the creditors are.

Like every now and then I get calls. Yeah, Michael. So it's just, how has your life been so chaotic? In the last two or three years that this has happened. And because it sounds like you're just spiraling, man.

Sounds like chaos. Yeah. I agree. I truthfully it is. And two years ago, I started my own business with my best friend.

It we found a building we grow into. And truthfully it just kind of took off like crazy. And then I didn't. Correct. I had bought them out of the business went solo.

I got in some trouble, small trouble with my previous account. I even all my previous account paid 100 bucks. And they didn't know work for me. They followed my taxes like for me.

So I'm finally out of the tax that I had to employ at the time.

I guess. So you, at the end of the day, you really weren't making a lot of money. Because all the bills weren't paid unless you were spending on cocaine or something. Where did the money go?

“I mean, so honestly, I was really bad at saving.”

And I wish I did it better. If I'm not saving her. I mean, you got these little $800 bills that aren't paid. So you probably weren't actually making any profit. Where are you?

Honestly, and it sounds dumb. But I was. I was. Well, then where would you say the money? 120.

Where would you say the money was? I've food every day. 120,000 dollars like the food. The food is I would say it's all food. But like a lot of just really small spending that just leaked.

I decided to get a German shepherd last year. I just, you're going to kill me for this. I just traded in a 2023 Tesla Model 3. Just last night for a truck. It was the last afternoon.

Obviously, I know lots of vehicles. I'm going to do like literally like like 12 hours ago. Yes. Oh, well, I quite literally last night.

I have been. I know. I.

Okay, what are you doing?

What are you doing? Michael, Michael, what are you doing right now for a job? What are you doing? I currently work for a automotive supplier. I make a base salary of 45 a year.

After commission give her cake, it's about roughly 50. Okay. And you just bought a $30,000 car. Yes. Okay.

“You need to call them back on you and tell them to cancel the transaction that you're”

not going through with it. It's essentially get off the phone. So. But my thing is, is I traded in my old car for you? Are you going to argue with me about something that's stupid?

You're really not going to argue with me about something that's stupid, are you? Please tell me that you want to have better life than you have. You keep doing stupid stuff.

You're going to have a stupid life, honey.

That thing last night was absolute freaking brain damage. You understand that. Yeah. I mean, too. Really.

I love you. But good. God. That was dumb. So, can I see my point of view really quick on that?

Not really. You can just call them back and cancel the transaction or you can have a good life. All right. Jordan is in Kansas City. Hey, Jordan, how are you?

Hello. Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was wondering if I should pay down my turn to the moment with single stocks that I hold. You could pay down your what?

Student loan debt. Oh, cool. How much student loan debt have you got? Just a little under $177,000. Wow. Are you a doctor or a lawyer? Uh, veterinarian.

Oh, good. What do you make? Currently, I make about $70,000. Wow. You must have just got out. Yeah, I graduated few years ago.

Currently, and internships. The kind of begs the next question. I'm actually going into a program, talking specialized. But, um, that program being a residency program paid less. Actually, they might make now.

Yeah, you got it. You don't need to be in residency program.

“Oh, you need to be making 130,000 as a veterinary and not 70.”

Right. And to go and market for, are you, are you fully licensed DVM now? Yeah, fully licensed. Okay. You need to be making 130, not 70. And you don't need to go into a residency for specialization.

You're broke. You went in debt to become a DVM. Now go be one, dude. Yeah. And go back and do the go back and do your specialization five years.

Yeah. Okay. So even the, even the upside of making over 200 post host residency. Um, yeah. Five years from now, it gets a great idea. But you'll make a lot more than 200 as a DVM that owns his own practice, too.

So why don't you go be a DVM clean up the debt, then open your own practice with some cash. And you'll make more than 200. And then you can decide if you actually want to specialize. Okay.

You do know this is true, right? I mean, we work with DVMs all over America. There are some of the people we go. Right. I know what the numbers look like.

I mean, the typical one makes between 130 and 150 as a salary working for someone else. And when you open your own practice and start running the actual business aspect of it,

you generally are going to go 200 to a quarter of a million.

I'm assuming some mix between small animal and large animal here. I'm not assuming just race horses or something like that. We're doing just a-- We're doing just a little bit more. Because people spend money on their pets in America.

George Camel will employ you for jewelry. George Camel will keep you. Keep your hip high off your debt, single hand. Like, oh my god. The Jordan, yes, if you have single stocks, you can't cash this in.

I would cash this in, but then you will. Immediately and pay down your debt. Yes. And I would be working on getting your income up immediately. And try to get this paid off in two to three years, right?

If you're making that kind of money. Just live on nothing. So Jordan, look around the DVM world. Okay. It is being taken over by corporate America.

“And if you want to be an employee of corporate America, go get your specialization.”

If you want to be self-employed and control your own destiny and own your business and own your own butt. And not somebody else owns your butt. Then you cannot specialize. Use this stock to get this knockdown. Get your income up as an employee right now.

And then go with a plan for your plan, plan five of your plan, opening your own thing. If you want to add specialization to that on the side, but I would not have it as my long-term goal to be an employee with specialization as a DVM. And you're going to end it because you're going to be working for corporate America. And they're going to piss on you. And so it's welcome to the medical field.

And so I, I will record these guys all the time. This is advice we give them.

The people that are loyal to you, they're more loyal to you than anything else when it's their dog or their cat.

They'll do anything for you. You're like part of their family. And that's a whole lot different than being an employee of corporate America. (Music) Hey guys, George here.

Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, I don't know where my money goes. It's not a math problem. It's a behavior problem. They're not budgeting. Then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros.

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Hey Dave, right? So I appreciate you taking my call. Sure. What's up? So just the context behind this is Dave. I had a call with you when I was 22 years old. And you told me that if I did exactly what she said, that I would be a millionaire by the time I was 32,

and we were able to accomplish that by coming for 28. So I just want to let you know that y'all need the world to us and children's children will be grateful for y'all one day. So I really appreciate it. I would love you, man. Well, Ashley Andon.

Yeah. You should probably be sure about the guy from the last segment. Talk to him.

“So with that being said, this is probably not a sound so stupid.”

But I'm so nervous to make a dumb decision after what we've worked so hard for. That I just had to get y'all's advice on it. So we're worth the right of about a million one. Maybe maybe a little bit less than that. And we have 15 acres of property that we want to build a house on.

My house currently is paid for. And the issue is I just bought this house two years ago new and then of course we have a guy move a next door with his mom. They just got out of prison after 20 years for child crumbs. And it's really freaking sucks that I can't let my kids in the backyard to play because he will watch them through the fence tickets. Not the one.

Geez. Yeah, so it's a really, really sucks. And so with that, we just want to go ahead and build this house on this property.

But the problem is is one it is basically two to three options.

Number one, we can take out a construction loan to go ahead and start the deal. Once it's done, sell our house and pay off the construction loan. But the problem with that is we feel like we're violating what we've been so committed to for this many years. But it's kind of heartbreaking to do it. That's number one.

“Number two is we can sell our house now and go rent something.”

But I really hate to make my wife move twice. And two babies in the process have to figure out the dog situation. There's a creep living next door of the land and then don't you guys want to help. I agree. I'm going to go rent or get away from the creepo.

Mm hmm. Because otherwise, I'm going to end up in jail for murdering. Okay. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

So you would just go ahead. So it won't move twice. Deal with the dog situation. The whole. Yeah, they'll see.

But the benefit of getting away from the creepo is it also frees up the money to build. But I agree. I do agree. Yeah, I would. And it's somewhere for nothing more than to not do a construction on the state.

Yeah, and you guys will be somewhere nine to 12 months. And it won't be super fun. But you would look at, I mean, that just goes so fast. Time wise. Do you know what I mean?

Like it's just. It's going to be for a quick time. So and here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

You're a millionaire. Way to go. You're 28 years old.

What's your household income? Last year, I made 250, but my income varies. I'm commission on length. And you don't have a stinking debt in the world. Correct.

And the house will sell for how much. I mean, I'm fully expecting to lose some money on it because I've got to pay an agent. And pay the house for how much. Probably 470. I'll probably lose 20.

“Okay, and what is it going to take to do the build?”

500. Okay, and you've got the other money. I've got 200 grain and liquid cash. Right now, not counting retirement.

So here's what's going to be uncomfortable for you.

But you're going to do it anyway if you follow my advice. And you did last time. Okay. So yeah, I'll do it again. Rinse something for one year.

That's ridiculously nice. Yeah. And that makes this adventure kind of fun. Sure. And it's so nice that you put up an extra deposit.

And they don't mind your dogs in the backyard. And your kids are away from Creepy Zoid. And your wife doesn't mind moving because she's moving up. Go rent an $800,000 house. Yeah.

Yeah. And because it's not that much money out of the whole scope of your life. And it makes this move. It puts grease in the wheels to make this move happen properly. And so you can afford to do all of that.

You make a good, you make this is not a permanent decision. It's a temporary decision. And it's making a uncomfortable thing. A double move. Fun.

Yeah.

So you would do that even though you're taking on a monthly payment that you haven't had for years now.

Yeah.

“You're taking away from the other things you're doing.”

Yes. Because you don't have a monthly payment on the construction interest. Construction loans. Sure. Sure.

Sure. There's no scenario in this where you're doing a construction loan after where we're at. Well, you could if you want to. But it that would involve staying in the house. And I'm.

Yeah. You're you weren't kidding. The guys looking through the slats of the fence. I'm dead serious. I'm not kidding.

I don't know how you didn't respond to that. Well, I'm sure he did. He traveled to dollars. I spent $8,000 in cameras and equipment. And then I'm going to I'm going to square out a warrant.

Well, the point is the point is you got to get away from this. Yeah, the point is you will have more peace. Yeah. The financial aspect because you already were just like, oh, I don't.

I don't want to do the construction.

Again, you could. But you didn't feel good about that and your current situation. You guys. I mean, if I was your wife and I had too little kid. Yeah, I mean, that's miserable.

Go rent of how you go. How do you go? I like when Dave likes to spend money. I like this because go rent like a. Well, you have like no house.

And so now you can look like. You're going to farm or something that you wouldn't want. I just want to go in a big backyard with cows. He's got 50 acres. I mean, they're going to move to a farm.

I don't know. I don't know. Just have fun for a year somewhere. I like that. Yeah, pretend like you're doing it.

We had a friend do that. And she moved into like a historic type home. And it was the coolest. But it was for a year. But it was beautiful.

So fun. Oh, yeah. I like that idea. But you've got the money. That's right.

That's right. Yeah, totally totally. So let's not let's not confuse this with somebody's broke. No, no, no. Call me up and go and.

I bought a couple last night. I know. You should be like all this shows. So it's fun. When people who are winning, you might go spend.

And yes, enjoy your life. Yeah. It's good. And you're not having to violate to go back and death thing. And more most importantly, though, I'm getting away from creepysoid.

Because I'm serious. I can't. Yeah. Can visualize going to work and leaving my wife and two little kids at home. Once this guy's got his eyeball.

Yeah. No way. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really afraid.

I would lose my mind and end up in jail. We know. We've said that twice on this. Oh, no. I know.

But it's just this. These people, man. Okay. Yeah. I messed with little kids.

I mean, you know, this is not. This is not a good thing. So yeah, land and I.

“I think this is why you have worked so hard.”

The payoff for all of your sacrifice is you got choices. And I'm suggesting you make this an easiest possible process with those choices. Because it is a temporary thing. We're not a five-year plan. It's a, it's a 12-month plan.

Yeah. That's right. And quickly get your plans drawn. Select your builder layout, a budget, a schedule, and a blueprint. And manage to those three things to get that house out of the ground and get it done.

It's quick as you want. Just don't let a budget creep out of. Stay on budget. Stay on budget. Stay on schedule.

And stay on blueprint. Stay on schedule. And you can get a house out of the ground. You won't. And you'll be your builder's favorite customer ever.

Because most people can't stay on budget. Stay on schedule. And stay on blueprint. So if you'll do that, you can get the house out of the ground. 12 months.

You'll be fine.

Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. And life is good.

“You've got some distance between you and the neighbors.”

Which is always a good thing.

Wow. The world we live in. Well, and I just love what he said though. Calling it. 23.

And said. Or he's 22. And he's. I told him by 32. He'd be a million.

Yeah. If you did a thing. Yes. Yes. So it does.

Proud of it. Prose out. Well, then, landed. You follow this stuff at work. I mean, I didn't invent any of it.

I stole it all from God. Your grandmother.

“Common sense is so rare in America, though.”

That it's like having a superpower. And so yeah. So we have a wildly popular show.

The 30 million people tune into every week.

Who knew? But that's it. That's why. Because stuff works. And you are the hero land.

And you did this. I appreciate you. You know, giving us credit. But you're the guy that did all the hard work for the last decade. Or six years in your case.

Didn't take you all decade. Wow. From 22 to 28, because of me and her. And I just love Gen Z. Gen Z has got so much potential.

There's so many things they can do. There's so much, so many things that they're fingertips.

“And they're so smart on how they use them when they're smart.”

But there's no middle ground. The dumbest person on the planet is a dumb Gen Z. Okay. The smartest person on the planet is a smart Gen Z. Oh, my God.

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Get started at CHMministries.org/budget and use promo code RAMC. That CHMministries.org/budget and promo code RAMC. RAMC.org/budget Welcome back to the RAMC Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz Ramsie personality.

Number one bestselling author and my daughter is my co-host today. Another Rachel is on the line. This one's an Indianapolis. Hi, Rachel. How are you? I'm great. How are you guys?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So it's awesome to speak with you. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. The reason why I'm calling is my husband and I are in the step two.

We've made really good progress and paid off $70,942 worth of debt. Wow, over $20,24. Thank you. That's consistent with medical, car, and student loan. My question is is there ever a time in babies that too

that it would be appropriate to cash flow like a life event or once in a lifetime experience? What would that be? So it would be to go see several good childhood friends of mine in Las Vegas named Kevin Nick, Howie AJ and Brian

at the at the sphere in August. The back tray bowls. They're childhood friends. Shoot. I'm so glad you called on this day, Rachel.

There's a deal. You know Rachel's been twice. Um, I think so, yeah. Yeah. And it's so good.

Oh, my gosh. And here's the thing. I'm like watching the videos and my husband y'all from the other ramp dates, both now. Oh.

I'm just going to see if Rachel's a hypocrite. That's how I'm going to see. Because if your husband calls me, or wants to buy a master craft,

Oh, and that's a very different price point.

“Let's just, let's just, let's just continue being curious.”

Rachel, how much debt do y'all have left? Um, so we have, I have it right here. We have just about 96,000 and I will admit that student loan I'm in health care and my husband is a teacher. And your household income is what?

Um, I have an NDA with work, but we are able to put about $3,500 a month towards debt because I have a side hustle as adjunct faculty. Oh, nice. Okay.

I'm sorry. Why is this set? Your household income. Oh, you can't, you can't say because you have an NDA. Is that what you mean?

Yeah. I have a non-disclosure agreement.

And I work with the government.

So, no, okay. Yeah, nobody knows who you are, but okay, anyway. Protect yourself. They probably actually do know who you are, but anyway. So, we're able to put like 3,500 a month towards debt

and we're at probably about 25 months away from having that all cleared. Yeah. I went to the Eagles at the sphere, which would be my version of Backstreet Boys, because the chance of me seeing the Backstreet Boys is close to zero.

But the Eagles at the sphere was one of the best concert experiences in my life. So, I can get, I can get there with you and Rachel on how difficult this is. We're kind of making fun of it a little bit, but it's also, it's also a very real, awesome, it's a real, it's a real, it's a real cool experience.

“And it's worth every penny if you want to, if you had the pennies,”

you don't, you're broke your 90,000 dollars in debt. Yeah. So, I... I'm going to mute my mic. I just can't, I can't. She can't tell you no.

She's going to make me do it. She can't do it. We, it would be inconsistent with what we see. No, I know.

That's the bottom line, as much as we understand and grasp.

And we also know you're not going to go bankrupt if you do it. And you're probably going to be okay if you do it. But it's inconsistent with what we teach because that loss of focus and that loss of... I give myself permission to take a minute off instead of staying on this. The way you got the 78,000 paid off in that short period of time was focused intensity.

Without any distractions, you put the blinders on and said nothing is important as important as getting this debt clean. And that level of focus created behavior, changing your household, created sacrifice in your household and got you the progress. And that's how we've taught and been able to coach people to be successful.

All these years in this to not get distracted with every shiny thing. And this one's particularly funny and fun because Rachel has actually done it twice. It heals your inner child. It is like, oh God. Oh Jesus is not there.

It's a backstory for us. For all of us millennials, it takes you back to like seventh grade. So Rachel and I are not in her child that's all right. But I am not in her child. I'm not in her child.

He's there day. He grew up. No, he's in there. He's in there. Wait down in there.

I have to tell you the truth.

“And the truth is everything we teach says don't do it.”

Absolutely. Well, no, I really do appreciate it. And we listen to like the podcast stuff. When I'm like on my way to teach on the weekend. So thank you.

You're fine and you're a great sport and you're working so hard. And you're doing a great job. And here's the thing. If you live like no one else, I promise you later. There's going to be better things than this would have been.

And I have on my prayer list that Brittany Spears heals up as a human. And she goes on to our and that in sync that just in temper like goes anything. Just for your generation. So we will get millennial concerts in the future. I really do believe it.

I'm praying for it. So when they want money they will because all the ones from my generation are 85 years old. And they're all on stage jumping around still. So because there's really good money in it right now. And they keep releasing more dates.

Yeah, like I mean, don't like just keeps going like they're ever ready. Bunny. So but anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's. Yeah. It's understanding. It makes for a fun thing because you actually, you know, you almost got Rachel on your side.

Yeah, we also have to step aside from all the giggling in the fun about it and say while it is an incredible experience, I would not suggest it to someone in your situation. If you do it, we'll still be friends. But I would not suggest it. That's a good point, Rachel. We would still be friends if you did it. There you go. That's a nice way of saying it. I'm just, you know, won't be mad at you. Just like we say, "get's not a sin. It's not a salvation, it's not a sin."

It's not a sin. It's not a good boy. It's not a good local conscience. So, stay focused, Rachel, stay focused. The power of focus is, it's hard to grasp in a culture that does not know how to focus.

In a culture where people check their phones, 2,500 times a day.

And they're my good progress.

And 2, you know, you're a half.

“And then you still have 96, like, "That's a long journey."”

So, you guys, you're in the marathon, you've got it, Rachel. And I kind of think and talking to her that she was pretty mature about. No, she knows. I know she knows. Yeah.

She was kind of having fun with it. It wasn't like a little sport for her. No, no, no, no. She's smart. Yeah.

She knows what she's like.

She's like a grown woman and stuff.

Oh, man. I just hate that you kind of lost the argument to the husband, too. You know, when he yells for me. For me. The other thing.

Day you said you can't do it. A day you've done make the decisions for her house. He just gives you the guidance and then you make the decisions at your house. But, yeah. Oh, Rachel.

So sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, I was on, when we started the 1,000 years ago, I was on CBS early show, every two, every other Tuesday.

And they got this couple for me to coach. And on the show, they revealed to me without telling me ahead of time. That they had just come back from vacation, I've probably been coaching him for four months to get out of debt. Oh, geez.

I made the woman cry on the air when I finished with it. You're like, you're like, I can't believe it. They went to break with this woman cry. I can not believe it. I've just completely ripped her cry.

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Jennifer's in Boston. I Jennifer, how are you? Okay, I'm good, this is Joe Nervacking, I don't know how you guys do this every day. We've gotten used to it, how can we help? Okay, so me and my husband, we had 146,000 dollars of student debt, they've gotten it down

to 65,000, so we've been kind of crushing it, but we do have an inheritance from my father's estate, we kind of went down around at home, we found out that each kid is probably going to get around 70 to 90,000. The household a few years ago, but my uncle is the executor and he's just going completely ghost, like nothing, and like a year and a half.

I'm sorry, where may he make ghost, he's not returning call, you can't find him or what?

“I think no, like text, email, call, did you go to his house?”

Zero. Well, we live in like different states, he's all in there, across the country. Well, for 70,000, I'm going to go to his house. Yeah, I was talking to my husband about that, I'm like, is this like something we get, like,

be gone tomorrow, if I had like the estate, like, you know? You call this phone, how many times? Oh, gosh. I'm here in the phone, I thought like a ton of something because I'm like, okay, he has a life like he has kids, but I'm starting to just get a little, a little pee.

Oh, I mean, so how long, how many times have you called him, like three times, over how, over how long? I mean, since we've been getting serious about the debt, probably a year, because my husband was in PA school when I was in college, we weren't really thinking about the estate at all, and now we're paying down the debt, I'm like, oh my god, you're my father

die. On the table. In 2015. Okay.

“Do you have a relationship of any kind with your uncle prior to this good or bad?”

I just after my dad passed the fat side of the family just, we kind of just dictated.

So, if you never spoke to him again, but you got your 70,000 year life wouldn't change

much. Right. So, Jackie Maup. Yeah. Like, call him.

Paton. Yeah. And go, hey, I want my stinking money. 2015. That's 11 years to settle in the state.

Yeah. I'm getting ready to call the cops if I don't get a check. I'm calling the cops if you stole my money. Yeah. You think he stole it?

It might have stolen. It's been 11 years. Oh, no. Oh, well, here's some tea. I just have a little bit of a feeling that he's holding it, because he thinks

we're like too young to manage it. I've got a little bit of a feeling that I'm about to jack him up. Yeah. Yeah. See, I know.

11 years. Mark. Wind in the house. Selva. Just a lot more piss than you.

I know. Yeah. I think that's the problem.

“I think I need a little kick in the black.”

So, I'm just going to call and just sit. Wind in the house. Yeah. Wind in the house. Yeah.

Wind in the house. Yeah. Wind in the house. Okay. So, he's 10 and a half years too late.

Yes. Call him and call him. And call him. Twice a day. Okay.

We're really wanting to move in August. We're not moving unless we're out of debt. Yeah. So, I'm like. Well, you need to lay it down.

That's irrelevant to this discussion. Okay. Whether you move or not, depends on if you're out of debt. And that depends on if you get out of debt. With your money or you get some of this money, this do you.

You may never see this money.

But you need closure on this ridiculous estate situation. For decades. How many siblings you have? And three. And what are they saying?

Well, what are the strings at the moment? Not going to lie. Okay. I'm going to let Uncle know that he's got 10 days to send me to close out the estate and send me my money. And if he doesn't do that, I'm going to hire an attorney.

And I'm getting ready to jack his world up. Okay. I'm going to reach down his throat and pull him inside out. No, really. Eleven freaking year.

She's only caught him three times in a year. So maybe we try the calling thing. Yeah, call him and say, I want my money. And then if he says, okay. Then I'm going to call again.

If you want my money. And then I'm going to call again. And I'm going to go, hey, it's been 20 minutes. Where's my money? This is 11 years.

Yes. Yeah. It's really correct that I haven't told my foot like on a gas at all. And that we're going crazy with the debt. I'm like, okay.

They take a new from like.

“Thank you for the road to 100, but you need to go there.”

You need to go middle. Yeah. Well, you need to be prepared to go to 100 in the next 30 days. 30 seconds. I'll do it as soon as we go.

You have to call him immediately. You can start nice. And then progressively over the next 30 days. You go from nice to I don't care if you ever talked to me again. But I still want my money.

This is going on too long. Take it. It's going on too long. And I think you spent the money. I think you're screwed.

That's what you're going to find out. That's what I'm almost thinking. That'll be good. Yeah. Yeah.

It's not legal at all. No, it isn't that illegal. Sure. Yeah. So what happens then?

Yeah. He's a fiduciat. It's a civil matter. It's not a theft. Okay.

Because it was never in her name.

He's the executor of the estate. He did not function in his duties right. His fiduciary room. His fiduciary duties. So you could sue him.

But suing broke people with no morals is usually a waste of time. So you're probably screwed because you sat on this for so long. But I'm going to go ahead and get psychological emotional closure on this. Yeah. And then decide what I'm going to do with the guy that stole my money.

Yeah. Now I'm just going to forgive and walk away and forget it because I didn't follow up. Or am I going to lean on it? Or has he got some assets and I'm going to tap him? I don't know.

I mean, you got to decide what you're going to do then. But I think you're going to find there's no money. That's what I think. And you bear part of the responsibility for that.

By not managing the situation well.

It's unhealthy for an estate to be open 11 years. It's not normal. Okay. He didn't do his job as the executor of the estate. And if he's sitting on the money,

“I'll give you a 10% chance that's what it is.”

90% he spent that money. And he's got some whack-out weird family justification, bull crapping his mind for doing that. But he still stole your money. I'll bet you. We'll see.

You can call us back and tell us later. Good luck. Yeah. So gang. When you are the heir to an estate, you are not in charge of the estate.

The executor executes. Thus the word "execute" is in the word "executor." Executes the actual terms of the will. If the will states House 2B sold proceeds to be distributed to children, that has to happen in a reasonable period of time.

11 years is 10 years past reasonable. That's simple. Okay. That's an actual practical thing. And so as an heir, I at the one-year mark.

And periodically after six months, I'm going to be getting reports from the executor as to what the progress is. And when I expect to see the payout that my dad left in his will for me. And you're going to give me those reports as the executor. Or I'm going to drag your butt before the judge. And he's going to make you give a report.

Because that is your fiduciary responsibility. Your job, your trust job, as the executor. You do not get to decide, "Oh, well, they're done with money." So I'm going to hold the money. That's not what the will said.

The will said sell the house and distribute the money to the dumb people. That's what it said.

“And you have to do what the will said even if it's uncomfortable even if you don't agree with it.”

That's what you take on when you take on the job of executor. And if you've ever been the executor of an estate,

you will promise to never do it again.

Because it's a royal pain in the butt. And most of the time, unless it's a huge estate, you don't get paid for this privilege. [ Music ] You've worked too hard to get control of your money just to let strangers control your data. Think about it.

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So go to joindeleteme.com/ramsy to get 20% off through annual plans and take back control. That's joindeleteme.com/ramsy. [Music] In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debt-free stage, Philip and Anita are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

Hey Dave, hey Rachel. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We're in Atlanta, Georgia. Oh, fine.

We're welcome to Nashville. Congratulations. And how much debt have you paid off? We paid off $88,100.

And we cash flowed another 30,000 of Murphy expenses in the first 18 months of that.

Oh, gosh. Wow, how long did I take you to do the 88? Two years and ten months. Two years and ten months. Way to go.

And your range of income during that time? We started at 135,000. We finished at 145,000 with the highest year.

Wow, there you go, guys.

What kind of debt was the 88,000?

It was personal loans, credit cards.

“We had some IRS tax in there as well and a HFAC system.”

Wow. Very normal. Wow. Normal humans. Very cool.

What do y'all do for a living? I'm a general manager for a big box retail. Then side hustle was Dorash. Okay. And you work outside the home in Aida?

Well, I'm a physical therapist. But when we moved to the USA, COVID started. So I stayed at home with my three children to help school them. That went on for a few years. And then we actually moved down to Atlanta in Georgia.

And that was when I turned my hobbies, which is photography and dogs. Into work where I began my photography business and my dog boarding business. Very good. Good for you. Good for you.

So Australia. We're from the UK. The UK. The UK. English.

Okay. I'm sorry.

I can't catch the accent.

I just do the work one. Okay. What part of the UK? Where were you? Devon.

I'm from Devon. Yeah. I'm from Devon. Yeah. Close enough.

Yeah. Close enough. Down on the coast. Yeah. It's wonderful.

Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations, you guys.

“So how did you run over this Ramsey stuff two years and ten months ago?”

Well, I listened to the telemote makeover audio book in 2015. But of course, new better. So I didn't do anything about it. Didn't tell the need to anything about it. And then fast forward to October in 22.

I was doing some yard work. Lifting some trees. And my body had another idea. So I had to have some surgery. Oh, oh.

Oh. I was out of action for five weeks and it nearly broke us financially. So after a week of Netflix and getting bored, started listening to your book again. This time, I really heard you shouting. Yeah.

And after eight times, I was ready to kind of open up to any about what was happening financially. Oh, wow. So I knew you didn't really have the full picture in general. So we really didn't communicate very well with finances and we communicated well otherwise. But I completely relied on him to manage the finances.

And I didn't really know what was going on. And he was under a huge amount of stress. And it was impacting our marriage. But I didn't know what was causing the problem why he was so stressed. And he did open up to me once he started reading your books again and shared what his plans were.

And I was surprised to find out how much debt we were in. I had no idea. But I took it all very level headed surprisingly. I didn't get upset. And I just got totally on board with helping him.

In fact, it really did help us communicate. And I feel like it saved our marriage actually. So thank you.

I mean, it has been an incredible journey just the whole experience and following your plan.

Communicating better as a family and working together. So I'm really proud of him for getting on board. And you guys for helping us do that. Yeah. Wow, well way to go on proud of you guys.

Well done. Very well done. So you had this event to put you flat on your back and you're kind of forced to consume some things. And you say, OK, I'm going to do it this time. This time I heard it, this time I'm tired of living like this.

I'm going to talk to a need about it. We're going to work together. We're going to tear into this. What was the first big thing you did when you got an attack mode? I went out and started dodging.

Oh, you sold everything. Oh, yeah. We sold everything. That was double one. Yeah.

That was really did think that they were next. Yeah, yeah. And then it was dodging. About six months in. I actually lost my jobs.

We got laid off. Oh. Yeah. But it was OK. I found an eater from the car park after the meeting.

I literally went out dodging. And I was actually earning. We were earning $1,500 a week dodging.

“So that's what we did for a couple of months until I got the next position that I'm in now.”

Wow. Never stopped. Just kept rolling. Just went straight up. We're doing 80 hours a week.

Yeah. And he was doing 80 hours a week. Yeah. So then then I started with my photography business. Doing family photography.

Which I actually didn't make most of the money. The money came from dog boarding. We do have dogs and we love animals. So that just seemed to come naturally to me. I think you can make more being a daycare for dogs than for kids.

Right. Well, these dogs stayed with us. They slept in our home. They were family-friendly dogs from local people. Yeah.

And yeah, it really did take off huge.

The kids loved it at times.

“We had, you know, in the teens, like, 13 more dogs.”

Oh my god. Christmas time was hysterical. Yeah. The kids joined in as well. The eldest actually lost his room.

So the boys had to cozy up. We got a tenant for a couple of years as well. So we really went home. Wow. Oh my god.

So now that you're free, was all that worth it? Oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean, if you're thinking about getting on board with the Ramsay, I would highly recommend it.

I mean, it's changed our life completely.

And you went imagine what you're capable of.

How hard you can push yourself. Knowing that the harder you push, the faster you can achieve your goals. I am, man. That's it right there. I feel like our children have just learned so much from this experience.

“That's what I was going to ask is some people are cautious when they have kids in the home”

to sacrifice lifestyle to get out of debt and do this. Because they're like, oh, I don't want my kids to feel like that, you know, that, that, my life is changing for the worst. They see it as the worst. But what you just framed up is actually, it's the best thing for them to see.

It's taught them resilience and to not, you know, to be grateful for everything that they have. It's just been to see them grow as little humans as just being a blessing to see how strong they've become because of this. And, you know, to go into the shops, they don't, you want everything they see. They know that, you know, we have to compromise that, you know, they've done a great job.

Yeah, now Elder, he's 14.

He's, he's been inspired by it as well.

So he's watched FPU. He's done that with us as a course. He's now got his own business that he started last year. And he's doing really well without doing what you do in day, which is lawns and jet ocean driveways. He's really jumping on board.

Yeah, I'm proud. Good. Well, yeah, I'm front row seat to watching Mom and Dad change their lives. You guys are heroes. So you've changed your whole family tree with your actions, as well as with their arithmetic.

So absolutely amazing. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Very well done. We're glad to see you all.

Great. Inspiring couple. Very, very cool. All right. Let's bring the kiddos up and introduce them.

Their names and ages. Come on up, guys. What other names and ages? So this is Bethany. Bethany's eight years old.

And so beautiful. Isaac. Isaac is 10 years old. And you and his 14 years old. All right.

Very cool. All right. It's Phillip and Anita. You and our eight. So say it again.

You and you and you. Yeah, you and Isaac and Bethany from Atlanta, Georgia. 88,000 paid off in two years and 10 months. Making 135 to 145 and selling everything inside. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one. We debt free. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh. I love it. Man, they are inspiring. That is so fun. I mean, just score stars for two years.

Man, they did it. And, you know, her. And so beautifully said that, you know, the more you turn it up, the more you turn up the heat, the faster you get up. Oh, and yep.

[ Music ] Ramsay show. Question of the day is brought to you by Wi-Refi defaulted private student loans. Don't fix themselves, but you can fix them. Wi-Refi helps you refinance in a into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget.

So you can get back on the baby steps and move forward. Go to Wi-Refi.com/Ramsi. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash ramsi. Might not be in all states. The question comes from Nicole and Arkansas.

She said I'm working two jobs to pay off debt, but it feels like my progress is slowing with the rising gas prices because of the war. Increasing grocery costs and higher interest rates.

“How can I maintain momentum and paying off my debt with all of this going on?”

Well, it's setting the lifestyle standard. I mean, there's some things that you can control.

And so to have gas in your car, you're going to have to have,

which means if it is a little bit more expensive, then you got to change the price point of your budget to say it's there.

“So what do I have to make up for in other places that I can sacrifice and/or make more money?”

It shouldn't be that significant of us. Yeah, you're just wrong, Nicole. You're worrying about stuff that is not in existence. You've been watching the news. Okay, there's no higher interest rates.

Well, you've been getting out of debt. Nothing, no debt that you have. The interest rate is not going up as penny on any of this. Yeah, grocery store costs have been consistent. I mean, the gas... grocery store costs...

Your gas might be costing you $10 more a month. This month. The Iraqi bombing has been going on for three weeks. I ran. I ran Iranian bombing.

Okay, three weeks. And gas has gone up 40 cents a gallon. It's $10. So you don't have a problem that $10. And you don't have higher interest rates.

And your grocery costs have not gone up in the last three weeks. So none of that is true. So you're creating a narrative, a drama in your head, because you're tired, because you've been working all the time. It feels like my progress is slowing.

No, it's not. Unless you did something else to cause it to slow. Slowing because of the war. No. Your progress is not slowing because of the war.

Increasing grocery costs, no. Not substantially, not in the past five weeks. No big difference. And no interest rates on your debt have not gone up a penny. Not a penny.

So I don't know where... That's all stuff that somebody told you that you work with. It's in Debbie Downer or you're watching the news, and how you maintain momentum is you ignore Debbie Downer. And you kick the butt of the debt by working like a crazy person,

selling everything in sight, and eating beans and rice, rice and beans. The cost of beans and rice is not gone up.

“But what does happen to cold, honestly, that is valid.”

And I will defend you on this after taking you to task on the other. Is you go get tired. It gets old. Yeah, and if it's been a two year journey for her, she is feeling... We're getting your butt off, it gets old.

It gets old, it's hard. Getting out of debt is hard. It's just not as hard as spending your entire life being average. Being mediocre. Constantly living from paycheck to paycheck for your whole freaking life,

having to work an extra job because you never get out of debt,

because you never pay a price to push it over the hill. But I will sympathize with you, empathize with you that you do get tired. And it does get... I get sick and tired of this. And all I would encourage you to do is just take that and turn it into a righteous anger to push the paddle even harder to the floor to get out that much faster,

like the debt-free screamer just said. Like Anita just said on that debt-free scream. And use it as anger, and also as anger to never go back. And I'm not going to ever be the person I used to be. I'm going to be transformed while I get out of debt as well.

Because actually, what ends up happening to these people, you guys listening that have never done it. These people that go through these extreme journeys to get out of debt, they are changed more than their finances are changed. And they can never become the same person again,

because they're not the same person they used to be. Yeah, because the strength of doing something that you think is impossible, where they have 13 dogs living with them at Christmas, and they're working extra. They're doing their door-dashing a thousand bucks a week.

They're making $4,000 a week door-dashing.

“That's what they said on debt-free call.”

I mean, that feels impossible for people. I mean, it's just like, there's no way I could do that. And when you do something, you don't think you can do the resilience on the back and comes out. And then you could apply that to every area of your life.

But there's a level of strength there when you do what feels like the impossible. Yeah, once you've stretched to a certain point,

you can never retain it returned to the same shape.

It's not possible. And so, yeah, that's how this goes. Wow, wow. So, we'll be praying for your strength, kiddo. But do not get distracted by mythology from your Debbie Downer friends,

or mythology from the news. Because your gas tank is not that much more expensive. In the last three weeks. And if it is, it won't be for long. And your interest rates have not changed a thing.

Unless you went and borrowed money in the last three weeks, you might have found a higher interest rate that way. But the interest rates on everything you had have not changed. Your credit card rates are not moved to Penny.

They never move up or down.

They always are screwing you. You know, your car is a fixed rate.

“If you have a car debt, your medical bills are fixed rate.”

You're not charging you an interest rate. They're just trying to get their money. You know, whatever it is, the interest rates are all the same. Nothing has changed. You know, because nothing in your life has changed.

That's my point. Now, there may be some things in the marketplace have moved a little bit here or there. But guys, you really can't sit and watch the news and be anything but negative.

They exist for fear porn. Their whole job is to keep you upset. So you keep watching and you stay in the Fox News or the CNN News loop. And you know, your particular side of the aisle is stimulated by anger at the other side of the aisle.

And you know, that's all they do all day long. And we're on Fox all the time.

We know those guys were not mad at them.

Most of those guys are friends of ours. But what they do all day long and the people that write those scripts that they read in those teleprompters, you know, it's got to, you do not have our interest rates. You just don't.

That's simple. Jane isn't in Fort Myers' Florida. How Jane, how are you? I'm fine, Dave. Thank you very much for taking my call.

Sure. My question concerns cars. Cars on a mortgage. My husband's 79. I'm 69.

We currently have a, we've done it all.

“We've gotten grandma's car, grandpa's car.”

You know, we bought new cars, even married 48 years. We bought new cars, seen them to the end. You know, any time we bought a new car at him,

of course, had a payment.

And once it was done, then we saw it to the end. So, currently we got grandma's 2003 vehicle saver. And then we have a 2006 explorer that, that, to my husband, drives. And then we're snowbirds.

So here in Florida, we have a sign up. And because we're snowbirds, I tend to go north more often than heaters. I'm getting nervous. Okay, it's like, we got these old cars. You know, and he's pretty good.

He's good. You moved stuff. These are about car we find. If there are run out of time after your question, Jane. Okay, is there ever a good idea?

I wouldn't go out on lease. No, I didn't. Yes, listen, I kind of got strong on. But it's a very nice car. But now I'm sure it is.

“It's, it's of, I mean, I could be easily in person.”

I got old cars. So anyway. What do you want me to do about it? You got to lease. Tell me.

Tell me. It's a bad idea. My plan is to give up to lease in. In September. Good.

Good. Turn it in. Good. Okay. Because we gave our son money for a,

some land, we still have a mortgage. So I'm thinking, okay. Do the, will put that money toward drive the old cars. Put the money toward the mortgage. And then in, um, uh, I turned 70 this year.

So I'll get. I don't mind you getting a nicer car. It sounds like you've got the money. Just pay cash for it. That's simple.

Yeah. And if you're, and if you're going to find, then what you're saying and putting toward the mortgage? Seven years old, you're driving across the country. You need a better car than an O six.

Yeah, I'm fine with that. But pay cash for it. You can quit trying to trick the system. Sounds like you've been tricking it for a long time. And it hadn't worked.

Just write a check by yourself a car. And be careful what car you buy. And buy something is very reasonable. And that gets the job done where you feel safe. But don't least stuff, no.

[ Music ] Welcome back to the Ram Z Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ram Z personality number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at AAA eight to five five to two five.

James is an Indianapolis. Hi, James, how are you? Hello, hey, I'm doing fine. Thanks for taking my call. And hello to Rachel and to Mr. Ram Z.

Well, thank you, sir. Appreciate the, I appreciate all the information you've given throughout the years. Thank you. Thank you.

I got a little problem and I just need you to let me know the direction you would take with you. You got it? Okay, I've got two sons. I'm seven being my wife is seven.

She's in great health. I have cancer. But I'm in remission at this time, so I'm good.

than her because her mom's in her mind. And her family is at longevity. But she's doing great great care. Give her love that lady. The head that I have two sons.

One, four, and two, and one, thirty eight.

And we're going to have about a $2 million inheritance

for them. The 38 is, I mean, 42 year old is great. He's got his wife under control. Those things, man. He just would expect people to do you know.

Pages bills does this and the other stages money. And then I got my other son. He's not very good money. And he's got triplets. He's divorced 10 years now.

He's been living with us for 10 years. And that was to getting back on his feet. Plus, they were 10 when he got divorced. And a single dad. He gets the kids half time.

So he's not in a position. You know, how do you take care of two girls if you're a single dad. And you're working. And he was working. And that's the plus side of it.

However, he, he's went through the equity down the home they sold, which was about 60,000. I didn't know he had done that. And then we gave him about $30,000 from my mom's estate. We were divided in thirds between my wife, myself, my two boys.

And he went through that. And I'm sure it's a gambling issue.

I can't verify that because he never said that there's no physical evidence of spending

$50,000. You know, Sean, because he spent all his wages as well during that time. And he has about $4,000 in the bank after living with us for two years.

“The only thing he pays for is bank care.”

And it is expensive. It's $25,000 a week for these three girls. And he pays for that. And we set aside that $50,000. We'll pay his rent.

But anyway, I just want to know the inheritance piece of it. What do we do? Well, I don't think you're blessing him if you leave him a million dollars. No, and I don't want to leave it all at once either. Well, I mean, you're going to, when you die, that's going to be, you know, he's not, he's not been blessed by anything else.

And so money magnifies the good parts of our life and the bad parts of our life. And so far, money that he's gotten has magnified the bad parts. That's what we have. Yeah. So why is he still living with you?

The good ones, $4,000 in the bank, and he's got these triplets. And he gets some half time. And he can't put a little bit of his head at this point. Why? He makes $22 an hour.

Which next summer, or this coming summer, he may get to 25. Yeah. And then he has a chance to get the 35. But that's going to be two or three years younger than you. Well, he's giving me, you know, get out and get out and get no longer than January of next year.

“And why does it say on my screen that he's under house arrest?”

What does that mean?

That's a DUI, and he has a breakthrough on his ankle.

So he goes to work, comes back here. I don't have to work. It's how I'm spending money. Because. But we're still in the world.

He's money's going. He's spending money somewhere. Well, I'm just spending on gambling. Of course. Yeah.

All right. So what would I do? You asked me early in the conversation. What would I do if I woke up in your shoes? That sounds about the same age.

Okay. What I would do is the conditions for you to continue to live here are that you start being responsible as a man. And that means you've got to stop spending everything you make on online gambling.

“So if you gamble one more time online, you have to leave our home.”

Right. And so I'm not going to support you destroying your own life. I'm not going to buy you heroin when you're heroin addict. I'm not going to give you shelter while you're misbehaving. I'm not blessing you.

I'm enabling you when I do that. And I love you too much to participate willingly or unwillingly in your destruction. And to make sure that that's not happening. Because I mean, you can't really control that. If he has his own money.

Yeah. So I would be. I would ask for a shared account with him. Yeah. I mean, there needs to be some.

I'm going to have some visibility into his internet access. Yeah. Treat him like he's not having to have the cream like he has an addict because he's an addict.

And that's your wife doesn't want him to do that.

But your wife is wrong. He needs to be kicked out.

“It's the best thing that'll happen to him.”

Because the path that he's on is a path of destruction. And it's not a loving act to assist in an act of destruction. It's called enabling anablers or nice people. There's sweet people. But they're not helpful people. They think they're helping.

But they're not helping. And so when I do things like this or when you do things like this, we're enablers. And so I would stop that. Then the second part of it is as far as the estate goes. I would leave his portion into a trust that he has no access to until he proves to the trustee that he's cleaned up his life.

And he's become responsible.

Because I'm not leaving a million dollars to a gambling addict.

Draft kings is going to get it all. And I don't want to leave a million dollars to draft kings. It's not how they work on my life to do that. And it's not a blessing to the person that's being victimized by draft kings or whoever else. You know, whatever else.

“I mean, we're seeing this sports gambling.”

It's just an epidemic among men under 40 years old. And it's just destroying men left and right in families left and right. It's evil. And everybody thinks it's cute to parlay. I got your parlay.

Be broke. That's what you're parlaying. So no, I'm not going to participate in that. And I'm disgusted with it. And I'm disgusted that he's been victimized by it.

And I guess it allowed himself. But if he ends up though for real, not being able to support himself, then the girls end up with the mom full-time custody. I would assume. Well, and, you know, the courts were--

Grim on Grim on Grim on Grim on our stand there, ready to help with the trip. What's the girl? What's the girl? Yes, that's going to be a way.

“If you, you know, if when you're keeping the kids, if you want to bring them over, I'll help you keep the kids on your days on, you know, because you got two little girls.”

That's what Grim wants doing right now. Yeah. She's bringing, how does a single dad deal with two little girls? Grim all's helping. That's what's happening.

So just keep doing that. I'll help you and help you with the kids. But you can't live here. I'm not going to support you, and I'm not going to give you money, and I'm not going to give you money until you prove yourself to be--to be--to where the money is going to be a blessing to you. It's not a punishment.

It's--I don't want to cause your ruin. You're on a path towards ruining your life. And I don't want to add fuel to that fire. [Music] Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here.

Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use.

Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com. Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want to answer for your situation, but you couldn't get through.

Head on over to the website and use our tool Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is a free AI tool that's built and trained on proven principles. Like we dumped years and years and years of recalls from the show into it. All the books I've written into it, all that financial piece of university lessons are into it. All the books Rachel wrote her into it.

And based on that, it'll give you an answer. So AI, when it has a good data set, can give you really good correct answers. And obviously Ask Ramsey is going to give you a Ramsey answer. You'll get an answer the same way as if we did it right here on the show. Ask your question today at RamseySolutions.com or click the link in the description

if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jackie is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi Jackie, how are you? Hi, I am good, how are you? Better than I deserve, what's up?

Wow, I can't believe I'm speaking to you, this is so cool.

Okay, so my question is a relational question and I'm hoping to get a third party objective viewpoint from you guys.

And I'm wondering if this means we are incompatible or if it should cause me to reassess our relationship.

Oh man, okay, so give me a couple of examples of what you consider cheap. That's right. borderline crazy or borderline crazy.

“Okay, so it can be something small like if I call him to say like hey can you pick up some avocados on the way home?”

I can hear him like him brain is short circadian on the other and trying to think of like the cheapest grocery store to get avocados. So it could be something small like that. Or just bigger self like pain for dates and groceries and so yeah. You mean he wants you to pay for dates? Yes, I should probably give you a little more context though.

So he and I are engaged and we are living together.

Please don't yell at me Dave.

And we also have a two year old sign together. So we've kind of we've got there a lot in our relationship. Early on yes, he still pays for dates. I want to get him a favor. He's not a date anymore.

He's a shack up so it's a completely different thing. So I mean the father is the baby daddy now I mean come on. So yeah, I think it's too late to decide if you're going to marry the guy. I think you've already decided you set your entire life up as if you're married already. Oh, I agree. I think that's probably like the root cause of some of our fights.

I would say that early on like one of our disagreements was on living together. I wanted to wait until we were married until we lived together. So why are you married? Well, I wanted to be early on but he wanted to take things slow. But we had a baby when it could live to get I agree.

It's not exactly slow. Not quite kind of where I agree.

He taking things slow was basically like not marrying me but he still wanted to live together.

And this is where like the frugal part comes up because I think our like framework for making decisions is very different.

“It seems like the only thing he can make a decision around is saving money.”

So like we had a big disagreement on living together. For me, I wanted to be married first and try to like do things back in the correct order. But for him it all evolved around saving money and like the practical side of it. And so like that kind of created a big conflict. Which that would feel like he is choosing.

Clonal quote financial security or whatever he wants over you who's the mother of his child. Yeah. Yeah. And so we did actually live separately because I I needed that. And so by the time he proposed after that he then wanted to move in together.

And I felt like we just got to an impasse in our relationship where it was like someone has to cave here. And so I did and I allowed him to move in. But to be honest, I feel like that's like the root of our conflict. And so to your point Dave like why aren't we married, I kind of agree with you.

“But I think like the way he went about it made me hesitant on moving forward with marriage.”

Because it felt like we were just. Okay, so I guess there's three options right you get married. You don't get married and stay shacked up in this exact situation or you split up. Yeah. Those are the three options.

And I feel like there's a thing. And so I don't know how not to getting married and staying in this situation solves your concern of him being cheap. So if you are so if you decide he's too cheap to marry. This is too dysfunctional for a to marry then you're saying you're splitting up. But I think it goes be I think it goes beyond that for you Jackie.

I think it's I don't think it's just that you think he's cheap. I think there's been other red flags. And what he was what he prioritizes. You don't feel chosen ever in this he wanted to wait. But then he gets you still even though he doesn't need the commitment.

I mean, it's just it feels like he's he's choosing a lot of what he's wanting. Yeah, and it doesn't and it's not you at the end of the day, right? It's financial security. It's well. I want to be in a relationship, but I don't want to commit to marriage.

You know, it's all of that. So I think a lot of I would think some of that's brewing even if it's subconscious of like. Am I going to be chosen at all in this?

Over his nitpickingness on finances. So this is why beyond I think this is I do. So I before you, I, I mean, before you walked around down an aisle and commit yourself to him. Long-term, I mean, you kind of already have you guys have a kid together. So he's going to be part of your life forever.

But I, but before you guys get married, I would sit down with a with a great. Therapist counselor and and really be working on something.

Because again, it's coming out like money, but always there's a route of what's going on underneath.

“I think getting to that point of what's causing some of this conflict in you is going to be really important for you guys.”

Which I pray is a wonderful flourishing marriage ahead of you, right? Like we, I want you guys to win. Can he grow past this? Yes, but basically at the root of this is selfishness. This guy's selfish. It's what he gets and what he wants and what it's about him.

And, um, which means that he's not a great man right now. Can he become a great man? Yeah, sure. But it's going to require some growth on his part. And, um, it's probably going to require you doing something you've never done before. And that's drawing a line in the sand and demanding it.

Yep.

And so you guys are going to sit down with a good counselor and begin doing some hard work, both of you.

And he's going to have to start saying, Oh, my job here is to take care of this wonderful woman named Jackie.

“And this baby I made with her and quit acting like a twerp over avocados.”

That's my job. I have a new job. It's called manhood. It's serving. Not what you can get, what you can give.

And by the way, the odd thing is it happiness is in there. You find happiness when you learn how to serve. Selfishness seldom leads to happiness. Doesn't lead to joy.

Selfish people are seldom joyful people.

They look like they were winged on a pickle. And so, you know, that's the good news for him. He's got that as a possibility, a choice that he can make here. But if you, you know, one of the things we talk about at Ramsey and the leadership, and we teach this to people in companies on leadership, you get what you tolerate. And in this relationship, you've been tolerating a lot.

And so you're getting what you've tolerated. And so, my encouragement lovingly to you is to help him by not tolerating him anymore at this level. And saying, we're going to get some help because I feel like you're here for what you can get, or other than what you can give. And I'm tired of being the only one here giving.

And so, we're going to get some therapy and we're going to get some getting a good church. And we're going to get plugged in and we're going to move down the aisle in a proper way, as a man and a woman, not a little boy in his needs. [ Music ] [ Music ]

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money is going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money.

And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you.

“And that's why I want you to go download our every dollar budget app.”

Every dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show. And it's right in your pocket, so don't keep living normal.

Go download the every dollar app, answer a few questions and get your plan today. [ Music ] >> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. >> Jeff and Christa are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Didn't well. >> Welcome, what are y'all live? >> Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. >> Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> $210,000.

>> And how long did this take?

>> 17 years. >> Okay, that'll work. >> I love it. >> And your range of income during that time? >> We started at 60,000 and we ended at 110,000.

>> Wow, what do y'all do for a living? >> I'm a college professor at a small Christian University in Oklahoma. >> And I am a minister at a, I like to say a healthy church of 65. >> Okay. >> I'll go with that.

>> I like it. >> Oh, how wonderful.

“>> What was the 210,000 student loan card at in the house?”

>> You paid off your house. >> Done. >> Look at it weirdos. >> How does it feel to be weird? >> It's pretty amazing.

>> We paid it off on our anniversary this last year, so.

>> How long have you been married? >> 28, 7. >> What are we at? >> We were at 7, put me on the 1/2. >> 27, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8.

>> We're working on 28. >> We are. >> We're 28. >> You're way to go, you guys. >> That's here now.

>> So 10 years into the marriage at 17 years ago. You looked up and said, "We're normal." >> How did you get introduced to this whole Ramsey thing? >> Well, initially it was through a church. They were doing FPU and we kind of went through it, watched the videos.

It was, I was looking at your timeline over there. It was like the six month long one. >> Yeah. >> It was. And we didn't do any of that stuff for a number of years.

It sounded pretty good. But as you say, I'm probably the one that held it back. I'm more of this free spirit. She's the kind of nerd of the family. But we kind of got into our marriage and realized that we probably hadn't been taught very well on these kind of things.

“And I think the big thing was we were moving for jobs and ministry.”

And we went to the cell of house in about 2010 and the house that would be 2008. 2009 was worth about 30 grand less than we had borrowed on it at that point. And all of the stress that came with that that we decided. Yeah, we needed to get out of all that anxiety. >> Yeah. And for us, I think when you say 17 years it doesn't sound impressive.

But I think what's really cool is all the things we cashfully told me did that. So the Lord just asked us to do a whole lot of things and have a list. >> Okay. >> So we have adopted six kids. >> My gosh.

>> Four of them are international adoptions. >> That was cheap. >> Yeah, right. >> Exactly. We have our three oldest kids have graduated.

The college, well, the one's going to graduate this year. >> What? >> That's a wonderful family. >> The four younger ones are in private school. Which we felt very strongly we needed to do for several reasons.

All six of the oldest kids have had a 401 day of matching cars. >> Wow. >> We've had several cars that we've purchased and sold through that time as well. We have a mission organization called Mission 1010 and Ethiopia that we were on the founding board for. And I go yearly for mission trips to Ethiopia.

>> Is that where you did the adoption? >> Yes. >> Some of them are and some of them will domestically. >> Yeah. >> He was more drastic.

>> Yeah. >> You adopted how many? >> Eight or six. >> Six. >> Six.

>> And so we were trying to count up on our way here.

“>> I think we've had 10 surgeries in our family in the past 17 years.”

>> Well, that's yeah, that's logical. >> Yeah. >> And every single appliance in our house has been replaced at least once. One summer, we replaced both of our heat and air units. >> Yeah.

>> So that was eight grand just right there. >> And you're cashflow and all this, right? >> Right, right. >> And you're a professor of what? >> I'm a professor of mathematics.

>> Mathematics. >> Yeah. >> And in fact, I teach a unit and we call it contemporary mathematics on financial math at the very end. And we talk about this and we talk about Murphy's Law and about all the things that can go wrong with purchasing home before you're ready for it. >> And I mentioned the probability and statistic show.

>> Yeah, and I mentioned about our AC units, that one summer, and I mentioned about the surgeries that show up that you're not expecting. And all the things that can happen when you're just not ready to buy house and how buying house is really not a good idea. >> So now you've gone through all of this and you're 100% dead free. >> Oh, sir. >> How's that for you?

>> It's amazing. >> It's amazing. >> I think it was a John Deloni book that says building an anxious life. >> An anxious life and when you're raising adopted kids and foster kids, it's nice not to have things like finding something else. >> When you're doing all of that.

>> That's a no. >> That just kind of resonated with me.

Just the anxiety level just drops amazing when you don't have to worry about just car payments, much less home payments.

>> Yeah, the first month that we didn't have a house payment. I got to the point where I would normally check to make sure that there was enough money at the right timing and they count, you know, so forth. >> Yeah. >> And I thought, oh, I need to check that and I thought, no, I don't know. >> It's all in there.

>> Oh, my God. >> That is so fun.

I mean, not only to do this journey, but what you've done.

>> Yeah, you've given your lives a 100%. >> 100%. >> 100%. >> Amazing.

“>> I think it's, honestly, what you do and what, I mean, it's just biblical.”

We talk about, you gotta talk about that all the time. As a minister, I just preached all the time that the church needs to preach this stuff. Just the effectiveness of a debt-free church. I just can't imagine what it would be like. And the more that we get on board with that, I just can't imagine what God would do if we were still good stewards of our finances. >> Yeah, it changes everything.

And here you are with your house paid for and six adoptions. Oh my gosh. Pretty incredible. >> That's a long journey and there's a lot of claw and lot of dirt under the fingernails to get that done. >> That's amazing.

>> It was one of those things that you want to go faster. But when you're trying to manage all the other things, the Lord's asking you to do at the same time, it just wasn't in the car. >> Yeah, you talked about the hustle sometimes. Sometimes it's just realizing you can live with a lot less than you think you can. >> So along the way, Jeff actually had been working in corporate America as well in IT.

And he took a significant pay cut to become a pastor. And I remember our oldest son saying after that it happened that he didn't feel like there was a pay cut. He didn't feel it.

And I think that's pretty incredible because he should have felt it.

It was significant. >> Yeah. >> But you guys are living so below your means to work on this journey. >> Yeah. >> And some other things.

Yeah, exactly. Y'all are amazing. >> Well done, you guys.

“When someone asks what the key to getting out of debt is how soon everything while living a life that's just full.”

What do you tell them the key is? >> Budgeting, I think. >> I'm sure that you've got all the things taken care of. >> Yeah, I would say diligence and yeah. And I think one of the key things is find some fun.

>> Yeah. >> Right, you can't get all. And so there's less expensive ways.

I mean, we still go on ski trips.

We still go to the lake. We still do those kind of things. And so I think having fun in the middle of it is still necessary too. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely.

>> Well done, you guys. All right, bring the kiddos up and introduce them. Some of them are here anyway. >> Yeah. So this is Joel and she's 12.

It was the age 18. Kimberly is 17. Eli is 18. And Abigail is 21. >> All right.

Very cool.

“>> You all have a bunch of leaving the house soon.”

The ages. Yeah, getting close. >> Yes. >> Oh. >> That's the different praise.

>> Oh, a beautiful family. >> The payrolls going down. Well, congratulations. We're proud of you, guys. Your heroes.

What you've chosen to do with your lives and give your lives away. And in the process, still managed to set yourself free. >> Yes. >> Very, very, very well done. >> Very, very much.

>> A lot of pushing. >> All right. Jeff and Krista in the gang. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, 210,000 paid off. House and everything, 17 years get this.

Making 60 to a high of 110. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. >> Three, two, one. >> We're getting free.

>> Yeah. >> That's how it's done. [ Applause ] >> Well, we sometimes hear from people negatively. That the Ramsy stuff does not work.

God's ways of handling money. It does not work for large families. And then occasionally, we get a super large family standing on the debt free stage. It tears running down their face saying it does work. We're free.

House and everything, baby. >> I love it. >> Incredible. [ Music ] [ Music ]

>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a better idea.

If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsy trusted tax pro today. That way, they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible.

But don't wait. Ramsy trusted pros can book up fast.

to find one who serves your area with excellence.

That's RamsySolutions.com/TaxPro. [ Music ] Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 11, 14, where there is no guidance of people fall.

But in an abundance of counselors, there is safety. Brantrecy said failure is a prerequisite for great success.

“If you want to succeed faster, double your rate of failure.”

That's good. Barry is with us in Columbus. Ohio, high berry, how are you? >> Well, and you, and thank you, Mr. Ramsy, and staff for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, I'm wondering, I have a small account

and state teacher's retirement system. It's very small, maybe 20 or 25,000. And I've been since my almost full retirement now at 67. I've heard on the internet that you could use something called an IOL, which is tax-free.

And I know STRS was pretty good with a percentage that they earned. But I've heard that there's two ways to set up an IOL, one is so that it pays a lot at your death. And the other one is so that you can earn interest

without taxation. So I don't trust the internet, but I don't know where they're coming from, but I trust you because I know where your power comes from. So I call for advice.

>> Well, the IOL is an indexed universal life. And in your case, it would be what's called a single premium, which means you pay 2,000 bucks up front. They would take their commissions out of that, and they would put the rest of it into what's called cash value.

The cash value earnings are taxable unless you borrow against your cash value.

“That's the only way that you can actually get your money out”

and borrow and pay interest, borrow your money out and pay interest. But the earnings on an IOL are not tax-free. That's not true. >> So thank you for telling me that. Is there any way to roll that over into an IOL?

>> No, I would not use an IOL. Because the fees are so stinking high, and when you die, your money's gone. So instead, I would just use something if you want to lower your taxes on the 20,000, and you're not going to use the income off of the 20,000 today.

Do you want to create income today? >> I thought from what I heard from what I heard on the internet, again, you never know. I thought that you could actually earn interest, and that it was not taxed.

>> Well, yeah, I thought it would be. >> You have to borrow the money and pay interest on your own money for it to be not taxable,

because borrowed money is never taxable.

But if you actually just took the earnings straight off of the index universal, then yes, that is a taxable event. But they couch it that way because it's a sales technique. It's a twisted version of an old product that was simply called whole-life life insurance. That's all it is. It's a newer version of screwing you.

So no, I would not put a dime in it. I would stay completely away from it. And what I have done instead is a taxable event, but if you want something that will grow without any taxes while it grows, you can use what's called a low turnover mutual fund,

which means a mutual fund that they don't sell the stocks inside of it very often. And so as it grows in value since it's just like a single stock that goes up in value, you don't pay tax on it until you sell it. And so if you buy a share of stock and it's $50 a share goes to $70 a share, you don't pay taxes on that gain until you sell it.

And the same is true in a low turnover mutual fund. Now if you take the money out of there in a monthly income, you're going to pay taxes on it. And I don't know of a tax-free thing except a tax-free, a municipal bond, which you could buy.

“A municipal bond fund if you want to tax-free income.”

But go ahead and spoil our alert. It's about 2% rate of return. And so, crummy rate of return. So I would rather make 10 or 12 and pay some taxes and net out 10 or 12. Or net out 8 or 10 out of tax after tax.

And so that's what I have chosen to do. I haven't strained to get to tax-free income. Now I've got a lot of tax-deferred growth because I own real estate. And as it goes up in value, it doesn't get taxed. And I own these low turnover mutual funds.

And as it goes up, it doesn't get taxed until I cash out of it.

But no, I would stay away from universal indexed life.

And you're correct to be suspicious of anything on the internet. Because it's all twisted and turned. And it's a barrel of fish hooks. And that's one of the things that you see is people get taking out a whole life policy and living off that money. Because life insurance should be why you're alive.

And you're living off that money.

“The only way you're living off of it's borrowed.”

It's when you're borrowed. You're borrowing your own money. So you could take that same block of money and put it in a CD and have that bank loan new money. And that's not taxable. Because it's borrowed money.

Yeah. It's the exact same thing. So if you want to do something very similar but has less fees. Just put your money in a CD and then borrow. And then use that as collateral and borrow against the CD.

And of course we're not going to tell you that either. That's dumb. But it's the exact same principle. Yes. And then when you die, they're going to repay the loan with the CD.

And so there's nothing there. It's gone. Poof. Just like that. And the same thing is true with the universal.

Same thing.

So you know, but you know, bar that it's always been humorous to me that these guys in the cash value life insurance world.

It's tax-free. It's borrowed money is never taxable, doofus. Of course it's tax-free. You know, I mean, these guys, they tick-tock guys are just they're cute. Because they're like an old, it's like a new version of an old scam.

Bailey is an Asheville North Carolina. Hi, Bailey. How are you? Good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So I had a question about, so I can just give you the rundown. Then my wife and I own a business and we've made custom hats for a living out of our own laundry room. I'm 23.

I'm still in school. I got married in 2023. We had our first child in 2024. And now we have another son on the way. Good for you.

“And how much you're making on the hat business, lad?”

So we just started up in 2024.

I'm at about 40 grand that is in my pocket this year. So far. In profit or in gross revenues? In profit. That's after you bought the hats and paid for them.

Right. Yes. Good for you. And you did that in three months. You make a $10,000 a month on hats?

No, I'm sorry. I meant to say last year. This year we also in one year you made $40,000. With your side hustle out of the laundry room. Yes.

That's awesome, man. And you're how old 24? 23. And what do you make at your day job? So I was working for a guy that he was a, he worked at a very own a print shop.

And do you have a day job? Oh, no, I do not have a day job. So your only job is hats out of the laundry room. Yes. Good for you.

Wow. Okay. How can I help for a run out of time? So I'm actually having an opportunity to purchase another printing business that would allow me to expand my business. He's a, he's in a brick and mortar.

But that is separate from the business. I would not do that. 30. You have a good thing going.

“Why are you dumbing it down and getting into a business is dying?”

Your hat business is blowing up. Printing business is tough right now. Well, so he's, he's kind of doing exactly what I'm doing. But he's doing screen printing. I'm doing hats.

Yeah, but you don't have all the over here. Right. I don't. Why would you want overhead? Well, the only the only purpose is for the location that the building is in.

It's a great. Why do you need a location? Your laundry room is working great. Right. For sure.

I'm just, I'm kind of learning how to read him as well. Go go. Go rent for $300 somewhere. You don't go purchase something bag. Do not go buy a building and buy a business because your hat business is working out your

laundry room. No, no, no, no. These things are not connected. They're not connected. You are doing a great job.

Take what you're doing and do more of it. Don't take on somebody else's problems. Okay. You have business. You're doing all this on the internet.

You're not. You're marketing. Right. A brick and mortar location does not sell you hats. If it does, go to the person that's got the brick and mortar location in rent.

A hundred square feet of their front window from them. But don't take on the whole business. No, no, no, no, no. Go do more hats, Bailey. Hats are working.

That puts us out of the ramps you show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime.

And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.