Exclusive: Leslie Fremar on Being the Real Emily In 'The Devil Wears Prada'

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Don't miss Fashions Biggest Night! See you on the Red Carpet! This is The Run Through, I'm Chloe Mal, and I am so excited for this extremely important exclusive podcast with Leslie Fremar, the Real Emily Revealed. Leslie, I'm so excited about this. We've all been talking about this for a few weeks, and it just means a lot to me and the podcast that you're coming on, because I was really touched when we spoke about it.

I spoke on the phone, and you shared that this had just been something that you had not talked about for a while, and I just have a lot of questions.

I don't think I've ever actually really talked about it.

“Interesting. Why are you open to talking about this now? And why do you think people are so fascinated by this story of who these characters really are?”

I think, I don't know, I think at the time, 20 years ago, the Fashions stream was very hush hush, and it was like an intercircle type situation, and I feel like when she wrote the book, no one really knew much about it, because everyone, not that it was secretive, but it was just hard to break in, and most before she concludes it, it was more insular. Yeah, very. So I think, at that time, people found that really interesting to get a real insider view, because no one, frankly, would have exposed it, quite like that.

So I think that that was really interesting. I think the movie did a great job at kind of fictionalizing it, and making it a little bit more fun. Yeah, then maybe it actually is or what? But I quite enjoyed the movie as entertainment. So I think that people see it, the fashion industry maybe as entertainment, I don't know. You are now 25 years later, an extremely successful stylist. You've filed Charlize Thurone for a long time, many other people. I wanted to talk a bit about your early career in fashion, but I also want to talk about what is the most exciting part of your current job and what you love to do the most.

Are you dressing anyone for the Met Gala, doing anything for Ken? I'm actually not this year. I find in my career, I don't want to say slow down, but I've really tightened up the jobs that I do now 25 years later. Just, you know, I have kids in a busy family and just trying to balance it all, and I think when I was really in the height and thick of the whole thing, I was never home and I was always on a plane and traveling flying. So personally I have pulled back a lot and I'm just really selective on my current jobs that I do. I couldn't give it up completely because I'm very passionate about it and it really is a part of me, but I don't work every single day.

Okay, that makes sense. Good for you. I just today, actually, Charlize is climbing a billboard in Times Square for her new movie Apex. We just came off the tour.

“Wow. I remember that term climbing a billboard. I know her new movie is about mountain climbing said they're climbing the billboard.”

Oh, wow. Yeah. In Times Square she is and then they're going to photograph for doing that. Oh wait, she's actually climbing. Yes.

I thought that that was like an advertising curve, putting up a billboard that I'd never heard. No, she is climbing the billboard.

Oh, are you going to go? I'm going to leave here and I'm going to go there. Oh my god. Is there a net? I'm sure she's wearing a harness. I don't know the details. There's a lot of professionals that helped her learn to climb. And you know, she doesn't see me on her movie, but yes, she's physically climbing the billboard in Times Square today. Wow. Yeah. What a stunt. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, this is this is a robust Friday for you. I know. So yeah, yesterday, yesterday we did five changes in a day.

Yeah. Oh, my god, just list what those are because I feel like people, especially with the Deborah's product tube, pressed or being in such high octane, so mode, but people don't really understand how intense these days can

“be for everyone on those teams. So what is the five changes of a day on a pressed or for Charlie's?”

So we flew in the day before from LA. So we're all completely jet lagged. Wake up at five in the morning,

We went to ride the subway for an hour to do a podcast. On the subway, then we went to the view,

“changed her when she got to the view. We had a little break, went to Jimmy Fallon, changed at the hotel,”

left for Jimmy Fallon, at Jimmy Fallon, we changed her for the premiere and went to the premiere. That is a crazy day. Yes, it was, it was a really long day. This is something that came up because obviously at the Deborah's product to premiere on the day. We were all noticing how hard it is to coordinate four main stars together. And like I loved Emily Blunt in the scaparelli, but it wasn't really like a group photo dress. Yes. And I wonder how hard is it when like are you talking to

other co-star stylists for their press tours? Like what is that process like? I personally don't actually, I probably should. I was seeing that photo, but there's so much prep and that goes into it and it's really done in advance that it's hard to work with someone else and take that into consideration.

“Like total. We're moving really fast. So I think unfortunately for those group photos,”

maybe those girls spoke a lot of red was worn. It was like Bride's Mades where Anne and Merrill got the memo. I know. And they all look great. It just, as a group, it was, there was dissonance. Yes, I agree with you. It's very hard to do and I think people changed their mind last minute and you have like kind of a selection of pieces and you know, you try to schedule it out in advance, but then things change and something breaks or, you know, things you can't anticipate.

So I don't think it would, it would add an extra challenge to then consider a co-star. Now fair enough. Wow. Five changes is unbelievable. Okay. We're winding now. Yeah. To what year are we when you first graduate college and you're starting your career in fashion and you're going to college R1999. Okay. So it's 1999. Yeah. It's almost y2K. Yeah. What did you know about Vogue and I went to our kind of past when you went in for that first interview? I knew who

Anna was. I interned at a local magazine in Canada when I was in high school. I was always in

off in Toronto. Yes, in Toronto. I loved photography, growing up. I may be double the little and modeling wasn't for me and ended up having an interview with at the time her name was Bucky Kedi in HR. I was interning at Harper's, bizarre and accessories department and someone mentioned that there was an opening in the beauty department. Okay. And so I interviewed for that job. With Amy Asley? With Amy. Okay. Yes. I did not get that job. She actually hired Tinsley

Mortimer. Wow. Amy Asley who was the longtime beauty editor at Vogue, then the founding editor of teen Vogue. And now the esteemed editor of architectural budgets. Correct. So I interviewed with her and I didn't get the job. Tinsley got the job. And so then Bucky actually called me back to let me know that I didn't get the job and asked me if I wanted to come in to interview

for Anna's second assistant. And did you know what that meant? No. I was just, you know,

I'm from Canada and I was really just, I don't want to say desperate but I needed to work and I wanted a job in fashion and no better place than to learn from her. And obviously Vogue for me was the dream. I didn't feel, I didn't necessarily think it was going to be my first job. But it ended up being my first job. And so what was your first interview with Anna like or your only interview

“with Anna? I remember clearly. I remember what I wore. I wore Jill Stewart. Okay. And then”

Jill Stewart what? Describe. That's seeing. I was wearing a navy blue button up shirts tucked into kind of an a-line black skirt. Okay. And then the girls at Harper's lent me a pair of Jimmy two pumps from the closet. And I wore those and they have a little bow on them. I didn't necessarily feel like myself but I felt like I was dressing for the job. Yeah. And what was the interview process

like? I met with Bucky. Then I met with Jill Demling who was the first assistant at the time.

Then I met with Anna. And what were your first impressions of Anna and also the whole ecosystem at Vogue? I was petrified to be honest. I was so nervous. I think I blacked out. I don't even

there. And I think she was desperate for an assistant. And that's why I got the job. Devil was part of became such a phenomenon that anyone who took a job in Anna's office or really at Vogue after that. There was that base level of awareness of what a version of working at Vogue was like. But when you started, there was nothing like that. What was the onboarding process like? I mean, I did not know anything. I remember she asked me for tickets to

for that fairy that goes around Manhattan. I think it's called Circle Line. Yeah. And I didn't even know what Circle Line was. I was going on the Circle Line. But she was like taking your kids

“on Circle Line. I swear. I remember that. But I didn't even know what it was. And it wasn't like”

I was it's not like you're savvy like you are now or you're like just looking everything up on the internet. And it's like right there. Like I was like asking I was like what is Circle Line there? Everyone's like rolling their eyes. So like it's the fairy. And I was like oh, and I remember like and you can't ask Anna for clarification. No, you can't. So there is really it almost becomes a a parlor game of sorts around the office sometimes to either decipher her handwriting or

figure out what she means by something and the handwriting. Oh my god. That's actually comedy. I was like you know what my dad has kind of this scribble. So prescription scribble. Yeah. Exactly. So I was kind of used to it. But there's certain people in the office who are known for being good at it and they take great pride in deciphering. But there's a moment in the book which will get to it a minute. But I'm just jumping ahead where there's a long sequence about how the Andy

Sax characters trying to figure out what Miranda meant by an restaurant review in the post. Yes. And about a new Asian fusion restaurant and she cannot figure it out and it turns out it's not the New York Post. It was the Washington Post and it's this big aha moment. Did you have any great quest for understanding like that? Oh my god. Like she had all these friends that I had to learn and I didn't know who they were. Can you spell

Gamana? I know. I thought it's like that I can do. But there were other things like like Lord Rothchild and like just had to like kind of address people and you know she had friends

that their calls were always rolled through and others that I would have to. Right. You know

take a message and just like learning. Tell you that those nuances definitely chill. Yeah. Yeah. This is Jill Damling who's then went on to be the longtime entertainment editor at Vogue. Jill was very type A. She was the senior assistant like really strict. And she ran a tight chip. Oh, and Ann is off. Absolutely. Maybe I was more afraid of Jill who ended up, you know, we became friends. But I definitely learned a lot from her.

Was there like a booklet of the rules because some of the more recent assistance really rely on

“this like 20 page document that is continually updated with each outgoing class? Oh, really?”

Oh, no. I wonder who wrote the original? I know. It's a good question actually. I did not have that.

So you just had Jill? Yes. What was some of the most challenging learning curves for the first few months?

Well, I mean, answering the phones and taking messages and making sure that she know, you know, who she wanted to speak to, who would who's called would roll? This is, is this email? This, no. This was on a physical we call. But like, is there any email at this point? I would fax her, her newspapers when she was in Paris, and we would type out this. Yeah, there was an email. Okay. She wasn't on it. Right. So we had this. It's going to the phone. Oh,

every now, you know, it's really different. Okay. Right. No, she did not have email. Yeah. We would print out if someone emailed her and give it to her physically or we would write her messages on what we called the board. Right. And it would get updated. It would say the time, the message, the phone number of who she needs to call back. That was described in great detail in the book. Yes.

“Which I think was very accurate. Oh, yes. And then now that's an iPad. Oh, it is. Oh, that's”

amazing. Wow. Good for her. Well, it would go on top of the desk and she would grab it. Yeah.

And then she would return her calls. She returned everything. And then we would just check it off when it was done. Impressive. Yeah. You declined to become the first assistant. Yeah. When you were first offered the promotion, correct. Tell me more. Well, I, I was just like learning the job

office at this point? I want to say six months. Okay. So not even a year. No.

Because a typical tenure for second assistant and first assistant is one to two years. Yes. I'd say

I was there for six months, maybe eight. Okay. But Jill was really ready to move on and she kept convincing me that I was ready and I was like, I am not ready. You know, because there was like very distinct roles. The first assistant would do like all of her scheduling and maybe more like business-related stuff. And then the second assistant at the time would do more of the personal stuff. Right. That type of scheduling, getting her coffee, her lunch, you know, making sure her car

was there much simpler or what seemed to me as simpler tasks at the time. So when she offered me the promotion, I said, no, thank you. And what made you come around? I think Anna called Jill in the

“office and was like, Jill, you need to convince her. Oh, that's nice. So then I was like, I knew I couldn't”

say no. What are your core memories of that first year working for Anna Woodrow? Yeah. I mean, it felt to me like grad school. Like this is like the best grad school. Like I just got into Harvard grad school. Yeah. To me, that's what I felt like. And I was like Anna had no boundaries where we could listen in on her calls. Her doors are open for meetings. Like if you really were to pay attention so much to learn. And I actually did feel that and appreciated that. Even though I was

like young and green and just didn't really know it was all moving really fast. It felt like to me. But I was there. I was in the heart of it. And the people that you're networking with, you know, invaluable. Everything just felt real. I felt really lucky to be honest. Did your friends and family

“understand? No. And I actually, I'm the type of person that doesn't”

glow or like just overshare. I was just like, this is my job. Like, please stop asking me questions.

But everyone always had questions. And I just, I'm kind of like that. Yeah. I'm reserved.

And I was like, you know, it's work. And I would just shut it down. But was it like, I mean, I was stalked even knowing what the intensity of Anna's office that in the book, Andy can't answer a personal phone call and say a one word. Yes. Correct. Was that? I don't know if that's true. But that is your parents wouldn't call you at work. Oh, absolutely not. And then you that. Yeah. That's pretty rare. Yes. That's, it's like the military. Yes. There was nothing personal. Nothing personal happened

in there. Right. And I didn't ask as personal questions. I didn't ask the junior personal questions.

“It was like business was moving at one time. Well, as the junior, I would have to be at the desk at”

730. Okay. And she would call. Okay. And then in the evening, you were leaving with the book, sometimes until whatever time it was finished. Nine, ten. Yeah. And so then you move to solve and street. So you could be closer to the book drop off. Yeah. That's real commit. Well, first of all, it's good for your sleep. HR told me that I had to be at work at 730 and I panicked because coming out out of college, I don't even think I had to walk in up before nine ever. So that

made me nervous. And then realizing that I had to sit wait until this book was done, you know, before I got to go home. Also, I might know what we mean by the book. Okay. Don't mean the devil or his product. No, no, we mean it was a mock-up of the magazine where basically they would paste in the stories from the front of the book, you know, center of the book, all the fashion stories in like a spiral ring. Yes. And it would, it would mimic the magazine and Anna was able to remove

pages and make changes or she would post it. Yes. Lots of posts it notes. Like, I don't like this kill this. See me. Yeah. Move this. Oh my god. So many semis. So then I'd have to get the book. She would hand me the book when she came in the morning. Go through all the semis. Then I'd have to call and be like Anna wants to see you. And everyone would be like, roll their eyes behind the scenes. Like, oh, there's so many post-its today. And by the end of the month, the post-its kind of got

it's true. They do. Yeah. You hope they win or down. Yeah. And they, and they do. Yeah. Yeah. The rounds will be back in a moment.

Comprehensive. Whitty. Speculative. Critical. Insight profound. Why ranging? Hopefully it doesn't take

My colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world. I hope you'll join

“us for the New Yorker radio hour wherever you listen to podcasts. The thoughtful, exquisite. Just, you know,”

we're real. We are obviously here because I reached out because I'd heard over the years, oh, you know, the real Emily was maybe Leslie, maybe Jill, Kate Young was an AOS office around that

time. But we'd never met and I never talked to you directly. So we're doing a event for a book club

on Monday and we're having conversation afterward. And I was like, it'd be fun to have of anyone who is a suggestion of who Emily might be. And Plum Sykes is like her daughter thinks she's the Emily. She's definitely not, which is not debunked. But then we spoke on the phone and you very sort of frankly said, well, there's it's not really up for discussion. I hired Lauren

“and we sat across from each other for eight months. Can you have you ever talked about this before?”

No, I haven't. Are you, do you feel confidently that you are the real Emily? No, I, I know I am. Yes, correct. I am Emily. I have to say this has been

obviously in different ways, but I'm fascinated by memoirs in rural and how your own story is always

someone else's story too. And that's something I've, you know, struggled with. I've done nonfiction writing and I just have never felt comfortable publishing it because you're worried about other people in your life. And so I do think that most memoir writers and fiction writers because most fiction is based on something. It's a difficult needle to thread. And I wonder when was the first time you heard about this book? So I was actually working for Tony Goodman

at the time I had left Anna's office who was folks fashion director at the time. So I had expressed interest to Anna that I wanted to work in the fashion department and that I really wanted to work on set and she told me that she couldn't give me the job, but she would allow me to interview for it. So I interviewed with Tony and ended up moving into the fashion department. Cut to I'm in Tony's office that we shared at the time and I get a call from Anna's office saying

that she wanted to see me and my heart sunk. I was like, she never would call in an assistant

into her office. So I was very taken back by that. So then I went into her office and she said, who's Lauren? Weisberger. And I said she was your junior assistant. She was only here for a short period of time, maybe eight months. And she's like, well, she wrote a book about us and you're worse than me. And I was like, well, like, I wanted to like ask more questions, but you can't really ask her about many questions. And I was like, okay, and she's like, well, I received

the galley, which is like a book before it's published. And she let me read it. It was actually quite mean the galley. And I think obviously an editor came in and really softened it and made it in what ways. You know, I don't remember exactly, but everyone just wasn't there wasn't this like lightness to it. It felt quite dark. I remember thinking and I found that quite hurtful. I think what got put into the world is a much lighter, nicer version of what she actually wrote. So I think

“that's what kind of lives in my mind because that's what end up being put out there. But I remember”

feeling like it was a betrayal at the time. You know, people weren't like very public about their jobs and everything was not secretive, but like you just didn't talk about it. And it was like just felt like in this exposure. Even though someone obviously advised her to make a fiction, it was really based off of a lot of things that, you know, I lived. She lived. Did you recognize things you said? Definitely. Yeah. I definitely told her million girls would kill for the job.

That was definitely my line because I actually really believed that and I knew that she didn't necessarily want to be there. I'm just curious when Anna gave me the galley. Did you like take it immediately

got home? Yeah, I went to like at home. I think we were like really busy. Like Tani was probably

packing up for a big photo shoot and I was like, oh my god, what is this thing going to say? But immediately you knew that it was going to be about your time with Lauren. Can you describe your process of hiring Lauren or how you knew that you were the Emily character. She describes in the book. I mean, to be honest, Lauren didn't really socialize with anyone else. So I think her experience at Vogue was really with me and with Anna. You know, you're quite busy in the office. So you don't really

“have much time to, you have to make an effort to make friends outside the office, which I did.”

But you're just really busy. And I think she also had a learning curve because she just graduated from college and I had to teach her all of these things and she didn't really know who anyone was either. And I could relate to that. And I remember, I mean, we had a nice conversation when I interviewed her and she is very smart. And she, I just felt like she would be able to get it quickly. Was it true that she was open that she went to work at the New Yorker? And yes, she, she didn't tell

me that, but she told the managing editor at the time that she really wanted to be a writer. And I recall her taking a writing test and, you know, things didn't necessarily go her way. And they suggested that she take this class. And I think the story that I was told was that this teacher

“or, you know, this course kind of said right what you know. And I think, you know, as the story goes,”

that's where it started. Her and I never talked about it and we never talked again after she left.

You've never seen her? No. In 20 years? No. Wow. Mm-hmm. What do you think it would be like if you guys were you and I did? I think it would be very awkward. I think, I mean, I don't hold the grudge towards her, but it's just, it became something that I don't think that I knew that I knew. And so I think it would just not, there's nothing to be said. What is similar to the book in the, and obviously now we associate so much the her, the Andy Sacks character with the movie,

but was she a fish out of water in as extreme away as she presents it? Yes. I do, I do think she was. I believe I recall she had just graduated from Cornell. She took pride in that and felt like maybe getting coffee and, you know, hamburgers and mashed potatoes. It was like, just felt like she just invested all this time in her education. I came from Canada. I couldn't really relate

“to that IV mentality, but I think she just felt like the tasks that hand were below her. Did Annie”

you hamburgers in mashed potatoes? Yes. Wow. From the Royal Ten, I think, was that what she tells right? Yeah. Yeah. Either a steak or a hamper really rare. Yeah. Big potato mashed potatoes. Yeah. That was like the diet. Okay. At the time. Wow. Yeah. What do you remember being the the hardest learning curve for her? For me, the driving force and I can only speak for myself was that I really loved fashion and wanted my career long term to be in fashion. I love the photoshoots. I love photography.

I love clothes. I love the art of it. And I think for her, the end game was different. I think she wanted to be a writer. Not that she couldn't get things out of that experience that would help a writing career. Obviously she did. But I think the fashion part of it just was did not interest her. Right. I want to do a little fact versus fiction because a lot of us at Vogue, when we were talking about picking this book as our next book club, realized that no one had read the book. Oh, just

a movie. Okay. And reading it, it's sort of fascinating to hear about what it was like working at Vogue in the early odds. But also wondering what was actually true and what she sort of largely fictionalized.

Okay. So I do think it's amazing that one of the most infamous lines in the movie, not ever

own was saying it. Just you were saying it. I think I definitely said it. Something I would say. Which is a million women would kill for this job. So girls. Yes. And earlier this month, when I interviewed some of Anna's more recent assistance, we were talking about how the "Gurge Your Loins" moment really was quite similar. Can you describe what it was like

over time it went away. Like, I wasn't afraid of her by the end. But at the beginning, I definitely

“was and I'm sure Lauren felt like, you know, I can't speak for her. But I'm sure she felt nervous”

when she would arrive. So she would arrive all of the newspapers, you know, the times Washington Post, the New York Post, the Daily Mail, every newspaper had to be kind of laid out in a fan. And when would she actually read those? Oh, she would. She would sit there and go through all of them. I don't know, you know, front to back. But she would definitely read the front pages, the interesting story. She was definitely, you know, kept up on current affairs. And when she was arriving, would you

switch shoes? Would you change? What was what was that? I always had broken stocks under my desk.

I would put on heels when she arrived. She definitely caught me a few times. Like, she would call me from the elevator bank and be like, I forgot, can you bring it? And I'd already changed my shoes and I would like run out with her, whatever she forgot. And she would like not even look at me and be looking at my feet. You know, so she knew that I would do that. So that is true. You can't, you actually, I don't know if I would survive all day in heels. It's so hard. Yeah.

So I couldn't. And there's a lot of running around. And yeah, you know, if she's not there,

like I just wanted to be comfortable. Yeah. So I did have a million pairs of broken stocks.

I have every color. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So that's been a consistent one group stable. Yes. I've even been in Birkenstock ads. Moving for I have a long relationship with Birkenstock. I love. I'm very passionate about Birkenstock. I mean, many people are. Yeah. I want to know, did you ever go to Paris with Anna? No. Anna did not travel with her systems. That is fiction. Focus, or I don't know if they still do, had a friend of Paris office. And there was a woman

in the Paris office that would assist Anna when she was there. Turning was Fiona. Fiona still there. Really? So yes. Fiona would help on the on the Europe side. One of the big plot points in the book. And the movie is that Andy gets to go to Paris

“instead of Emily. And it's this great portrayal of Emily. Was there ever a situation like that?”

Where no. Okay. Yeah. I think the fiction part of the book is that this character turns into this superstar. And I did not win as that. And I think this idea that the Emily character is not very pleasant or nice or seems high-strung is because I probably was not very nice. And I probably was high-strung because I felt like I was having to do her job as well. So for me, that was really frustrating. I think she was probably just sitting there writing a book.

And not necessarily taking the job as seriously as I did or you know 100 million girls would. So I think that that probably created some tension in the office where maybe I would snap at her or you know, she just didn't want to play the game. Yeah. Yeah. Where there rules you passed down to her and rules that jail passed down to you. And where some of those rules not actually from Anna. I don't think any of the rules are actually from Anna to be honest. There were rules

that were passed down to me that were like I couldn't eat at my desk. You couldn't go to the bathroom

“unless one of the assistants had to be there at all times. So if you have to ask the senior”

assistant, like if you could go use the restroom, her checks were all typed out on a typewriter, even at the time we had these messenger slips. I'm sure it's all digital now, but you'd have to fill them out like if I needed something sent to her house or picked up, we had to type them on a typewriter or we couldn't write it. We couldn't write it. So and everything that came at of her office had to be very presentable. Jill leaves I go into the sec into the first seat and I'm

like, this is all a huge waste of time. Why am I sitting here on a typewriter typing this thing?

I can write it in five minutes. So I just started writing them and Anna never said anything. She

didn't care. I don't think she noticed. You know, and I started eating it your day. I saw, yes, I think

drinking a smoothie by my computer. Which was what I was told was allowed. You were on a diet

where when you felt fainted, you'd eat a piece of cheese. No, I probably did when I was the junior. Because I was told that I wasn't allowed to eat at my desk and I had to sit there all day. I wasn't allowed to leave, but when I moved into the role, when the book was kind of came into life, I ate.

“That's so funny. I want to know, is the dry cleaning and laundry situation the same as the book?”

No, it was just dry cleaning. She would bring in her dry cleaning and we would separate the dry cleaning, you know, contour would go to Madame Palettes and the regular dry cleaning would go

somewhere else. And the senior assistant at the time would also do the expenses. So that was

all something that we had to keep track of. And yeah, that is true. What about the Harry Party, Harry Potter manuscript? I don't recall. I would have to fact check that. The timing of when Harry Potter came out. I definitely, there were definitely requests that were like that about getting things, you know, that weren't available. So we already talked a little bit about when Anna called you in, you got the galley and read it. What was the, how did that percolate around the

office? And what was the vibe? I don't remember if it was gossiped about like, I don't know, if I'm not the type of person that would, you know, run around and be like, oh my god,

“there's a book coming out. I think I kind of kept it to myself. So I'm not really sure he was in”

the inner circles of knowing that that was happening. So you read the galley and you saw it. I obviously, I see myself on this because this was my role. But what did you recognize and what upset you as being not accurate? I think, um, I mean, I knew it was me. I, you know, Lauren and I had spent these eight months together. It's, it's a really intense relationship. You know, you're working together from 730 in the morning till 730 at night and, you know,

day and day out weekend. So obviously, you're not working on the weekends. But it's possible that you would have to. So I think that relationship is really intense. And you rely on each other, you know, in, in day to day life. So what I have considered her a friend,

“no, like, I don't, we didn't necessarily socialize. But I think that that was also something”

that was taught to me. Like, and I didn't really socialize with us. She wasn't like asking us, like, how was your weekend? Um, so I think in the office that wasn't really a ritual for me to, like, talk to her. But I did meet her boyfriend and I did know personal things about her. And we definitely had a relationship. Um, obviously, I got frustrated with her. So I think that that's where the, that mean part in her perspective probably came from. Um, but I, it definitely to me at the time

felt like a betrayal. I was like, oh my god, I spent so much time with this person. Yeah. And she

gave you a heads up? No. What was it like, you never ran into her after, but you did run into her boyfriend.

Yeah. What was that interaction? Oh my god. He was like, are you okay? Like, are you so pissed? And I was like, I came to terms with it, too, because the book didn't, wasn't as bad. So I was kind of just laughed it off. But it definitely stunned. Of course. Yeah. A few years later, the movie comes out. Yeah. What? How are you feeling about it then? I just can't believe it took like this life form that was going to like live on. And I just remember thinking, like, oh my god, I cannot believe.

Now, I have to deal with like a movie. You know, went to the book. People know you were Emily and did you sort of not want to share that with people? So that wasn't your, you were Emily for the rest of your life? Well, I didn't realize it was like that was going to happen. I think people that knew me at the time. Yeah. You know, that were in like, you know, even PR or working at brands. Like, they all knew that it was me. But it was fictionalized. Right. So I was able mentally to like

separate myself from it where I didn't feel like it was this like horrible portrayal of me per se. But it definitely like I went to see the movie and I enjoyed the movie. Right. So I was able to like separate myself enough to like enjoy it. Why do you think the movie was different than the book?

I was like living it and I was stressed or I was, you know, tired or I was, I made a mistake or,

you know, I, I was, you know, I needed a paycheck, you know, whatever it was. To me, it was real, but in the movie, it just it felt more of a fantasy of what like this perception of the fashion industry is. So that allowed me to enjoy it. It's hard, it's hard for me to kind of explain or just English. I don't know. To me that the movie is, it's, there's a joy to it. It's optimistic. It feels relatable to anyone who's starting out in their career. Whereas the book felt very specifically about one

“experience. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think the editors didn't a fantastic job at adding this element”

of Hollywood and, you know, mass and all of those things to get people to go and see it. Yeah.

Because at the time, I think people also would turn their noses to fashion or, you know, it wasn't this like thing that accepted everybody. It wasn't inclusive. So I think the movie made it a little bit more inclusive and romanticized it and all of these things that made it entertainment. But at the end of the day, it was still like my life. So it was, it was hard to decipher. Was there ever a real-life version of this really in blue sweater moment where either Lauren was sort of

explained the magnitude of the fashion industry or you felt like you understood how big an ecosystem

this was? Yeah. I think I was always trying to remind her that this was something to take seriously

or I took it seriously and she really didn't. So that really frustrated me. I was like, this is a huge international business. This is like an art form to lots of people. People get dressed every day as an expression of like who they are. Yeah. And to me that was like, I took that seriously even though, you know, obviously I know I'm not curing anything. It was important to me and not being important to her just really hurt to me. We found an old Gocker piece.

Okay. That referenced a July 2006 Page Six article that's the title is Leslie Fremar, Hans Lauren, Weisberger's Dreams. Oh my god. Okay. And it speculates that you're the real Emily. Okay. And people in the comments said that they found your friends to account that you seem nice

“and they wondered if you were British like Emily Blunds. Did you ever see this? I think someone”

showed me at the post the time would do blind items. I guess. Yeah. So I felt embarrassed but also like it could go away. Yeah. You know, at that time to, today's news was, you know, yesterday's trash, you know, didn't live on quite like it felt like it does today. Yeah. So it could like, you know, I could move on quicker. It's not, it's not on the internet. Right. Right. It's a different thing. Yeah. It felt like it could be thrown out and people aren't looking at yesterday's paper.

We're only looking at it today. Yeah. So living in the moment felt more true than it didn't like follow me as much as it would today. Probably ever wanted to, I mean, you've been so discreet about this for two decades, which I think is a testament to, you know, your respect for this role and for Anna and Vogue. But have you had complicated feelings when people say that they're the real Emily or so I read it. I know plum psychs wrote a very funny article about how

her daughters are convinced she's the real Emily and she sort of debunked to that. But circuitously,

“what, what is that experience been like for you? Well, I think I'm obviously Anna's had many”

assistance and I'm not the only one. So I think all of those people have a shared experience working for her and have their own experiences. But this very specific time in history and this happening happened to me. Right. Like when we spoke, I was like, I'm happy to come on your panel, but it will be quite clear very quickly that it was me. So I don't want to make Kate uncomfortable. I don't want to make plum uncomfortable. Like I can kind of go along with the, you know, the

likeness of it. Yeah. But it will become very clear quickly that it was me and then I don't want us having a conversation with that. You know, I was felt sensitive to that. Of course. And it's weird like having a movie come at 20 years later and then all of a sudden it's back. You know, obviously I've moved past it all and I still work in the business and I'm able to kind of laugh it off.

Yeah. I'm just like, you know what, there's all this speculation. Everyone really enjoyed

“the movie and is clearly embracing it. Yeah. And so why not? Yeah. You know, just put it out there”

and I'm not really worried about the repercussions. Like everyone has something to say that stuff doesn't really bother me. Yeah. But it just, it just felt like there was this curiosity. Yeah. And I was like, you know what, here we go. Have you ever met Emily Blunt? I have, I have met Emily

Blunt. I was really, I'm never excited to meet anyone to be honest. And I was always like, if I meet

Emily Blunt, what would I do? So one day I was getting a massage at the Greenwich Hotel and she was actually at the spa herself and I wanted to say something and I didn't. So I let that moment pass me. And then a client of mine invited me over for dinner to her house and there was like seven people

“there and Emily was there. So I was like, this is so intimate and personal and we're at a mutual”

friend's house. And so I said to her, I was like, I just need to let you know, I'm Emily.

She was not that interested to be honest. I was like, I thought I was going to get this like

huge reaction like, no, I was like, oh, okay. So that was that. The run through will be back in a moment. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. And we're the host of Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. And just because the Oscars are done for now doesn't mean we are. Join us every week for coverage of the biggest stories in Hollywood interviews with today's brightest stars and so much more. Listen to Little Gold Men every Thursday

wherever you get your podcasts.

“Was there anything, you know, I think people focus on is Anna really like Miranda Priestley.”

But are there any stories of ways Anna would surprise people by things she did? Oh, listen, I want to firstly say that Anna is my mentor through and through. I learned everything that I know from Anna. I would actually give her full credit for the way that my life turned out. And I'm very happy with how my life turned out. So I'm very grateful to Anna. I think a lot of that the way she ran her office without it feeling personal. I still do that to this day. I think that

that's a really efficient way of working and it's able to keep boundaries. And when the personal kind of invades the professional, it becomes a little bit messier and I respected her process of that. There was a story that I thought was very touching about Anna finding you crying one day. Yes, yes, can you tell me about that? So I just got into call from HR and they had informed me that my work visa from Canada was coming up for renewal and that the company had a new policy

that they were not going to sponsor international employees and that they were not going to extend my working contract. And I was hysterical. It was just like my life just like flashed before me. I have to move home. I have a life here. I have a job. I didn't understand. I was hysterical and I didn't know what was going on but I didn't know that Anna was coming in because I was just kind of really emotional and she walked in and I was crying and I didn't know

that she was coming in and she looked at me and it made her uncomfortable and she didn't say anything and walked into her office and I was embarrassed and couldn't stop crying now because like I just

my life just basically blew up in my eyes and then she waited a few minutes and then she

called me into the office and she's like it's horrible that I do her voice but she's like Leslie why are you crying and I was like well I just got this call from HR and you know they

policy through the company that you're just not sponsoring anymore and she goes oh just stop crying and I was like okay so I'd leave the office and then she calls sign new house at the time and asked him to come to her office and he walks in and he's like the cutest little old man and he

just like is always wearing the same like sweatshirt I just remember so clearly and she's like

“sigh and the doors are open so I can hear everything she's like you need to make my”

assistant stop crying HR just told her that she no longer has a job and you need to get her visa and he was like okay done and she got me and you're still here and I am still here she got me my papers I love that yeah but there was no like I just like wanted to hug her and be like thank you so much but like I think she just knew how grateful I was and there was no exchange if how grateful I was she just we didn't have that relationship but I hope and if she's listening yeah how grateful

yeah I was to her um you moved from Annas office to working for Tani as her styling assistant

how long did you work for Tani through years and then um I went to work at Prada okay so when the

“full came out the devil wears Prada I was actually at Prada oh my god I didn't know that and”

Annas like I'm worse you know like it was the whole thing you can't make it up yeah so I did the VIP department Prada for a really short time and I met Selma Hayek when I was there and she hired me a freelance so I left okay so you started from there yes when you you came back to Vogue recently yes for a very special shoe yeah can you tell me about that so oh my god this is crazy story so I was literally in the middle of nowhere upstate with my kids and they were learning to ride dirt bikes

with some man like in a field yeah and my agent calls me and was like um and I went to once to speak to you can you take the call um and I was like no I'm like my pajamas like in the middle of nowhere this man is like yelling at me my kids are like falling off bikes and I was like I cannot I can't right now just tell her like I have no service like I had that panic kind of come back that I like couldn't take the call like it was almost caught too off guard and so then um Virginia

called me it was like Anna suggested you for this job to work with Kamal Harris who was the former the campaign yes for the campaign she was the dental campaign the president shall campaign she was looking for someone so I was like wow she's like you know just take the meeting with the vice president and take it from there see what happens so I was like okay so I took the meeting and the vice president I you know had similar points of view on what needed to be done and

so I did that and Anna got me that opportunity and then she was shooting the cover of Vogue and and actually allowed me to style the cover which was my first I've been doing this for a really long time you know 20 years and I'd never I'd styled many international Vogue

covers before but never in American Vogue cover and she let me do the cover and that was my first

American Vogue cover and it was like to me really a full circle moment and like probably my proudest yeah moment um it was the October 2024 yeah as a digital cover and also in print but it first came out um online and it was right before the election so it's a very powerful and

“important moment yeah and the vice president also knew how important it was to me because I”

had shared that story with her so it was just I just felt really proud of that moment and that will like kind of go down as my you know real something I'm really proud of in my career Leslie thank you so much we are so grateful to you coming and um I hope you enjoy the new movie I know I have you seen it I yes oh really coming on my desk okay I'm dying to see it okay again Hi listeners I just want to mention that we of course reached out to Lauren Weisberger for

comment on what we discussed with Leslie in the episode she did not come back to us for comment and that is it for the show this week we will see you guys soon

with help from Emily Elias the show is engineered by brand bandie and mix by Mike Kuchman bye

“comprehensive witty speculative critical insightful profound wide ranging hopefully doesn't take”

itself too too seriously I'm David Remnick and each week on the New Yorker radio hour my colleagues

and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world I hope you'll join us for the

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