‘The Pitt’ Season 2, Episodes 9 and 10, Checking In on ‘Paradise’ S2, and Kate Winslet Is the Next ‘LOTR’ Lead. Plus, Wrapping Up the ‘Industry’ Mailbag.

So, I'm standing, standing, standing.

Tamara is. This feeling can be done now. Tamara's men.

“Stand full of shoes for every life moment.”

You find them at Tamara's.com and at the outside. With the code Spotify 10, you get 10% of her shoes on Tamara's.com. Perfect for you. And now, for me.

Tamara is. So, you have this feeling in your shoes? Just a little bit more. And then you have this feeling. No, not at all.

This feeling is like my safe space. Are you all right? Yes, exactly. This feeling is like a doorstep. The doorstep is still standing.

A doorstep, a doorstep, or an empty door. Really? I don't feel like a doorstep. A doorstep? Save?

With this feeling. [Music]

I am supposed to have to clear the room.

Stand up and walk. Now. Hello, and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ride. I am an editor at therair.com.

And joining me in the studio, the bunker was just the beginning. It's Angry Worlds.

“I love opportunities to talk to you about prepping.”

Yeah, that end of the world. Sure. That's a great thing. Well, I'm not sure if you can see it. Yeah, I'm not sure if you can see it.

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I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm worried about Sweetkrain. It's not Slop.

Look how upset that made you. The very few things that can rattle you. This far into your media career. I don't want everything in my life fetish size. You know, I like a salad for lunch.

It is what it is. Excuse me, should we restart? I mean, war at war. But I guess this is what you're upset about. We're not sure if you can see it.

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We know nothing about it, but as you said, I've never heard of either of these leads or seen them.

And I think that's a good thing. All I know is Peter Gould knows how to make television and the log line sounds like an exciting area for a TV show. Sure.

“Chris, that's how we used to make stuff in this country.”

So I do feel pretty infused about that. Yeah, it's a stranger moment. I mean, I think that obviously there's the pit. We're having a great time with that. And honestly, these last two weeks, I'm like, this is really just the only thing I want to watch.

DTF St. Louis, we talked about on Monday.

And some of our mixed emotions about it. Rooster. We also discussed love story. I will not watch for ready reasons. Darrell Hannah being chief among them.

I don't watch Ryan Murphy shows. Yeah. We we've agreed on that. That's something that has freed up a lot of our time in this case. It was true.

Paradise. I've been enjoying Vladimir. I haven't yet to check out on Netflix with Rich Place. And young Sherlock. We've gotten a couple of emails being like, if you guys checked this out, but I have not.

That's on Amazon Prime. That's a title. That's the other way we used to make things country. Which Sherlock was young. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's just, I was just wanted to work through my, my issues here.

“Did you have other news you want to talk about today?”

I think you're sending up something that's worth talking about. And we will because how things used to be familiar beats and television playing the hits. I mean, paradise fits right into that conversation. So we'll get to that momentarily. You have a question for you.

It's the big screen. Not the small screen. Sure. There is a particular film. You usually, we sit here and you, you know, I don't know, like conversation happens.

And someone makes a passing reference to Moon Knight. I'm like, actually, Mark Spectre was the inherited the Egyptian spirit of cone shoe or whatever. And then you're like, let's go. For instance. Just throwing that out there.

The one area where, I mean, okay, then there are cooler areas where we start talking about like, you know, alien films. And he're ready to go deep on the financial health of the way we were talking about. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Shareholder interest, too. But the one I believe IP that you know more than me about proudly is Lord of the Rings. I guess so. Yeah. And that you've seen the movies.

Since they were released in theaters. Oh, yeah. So I'm just getting word from my ivory tower that there is a new. Hobbit movie happening. Yes.

And Elijah Wood might be in it. Yep. And Gollum is in it. Yep. In direct light.

Direct light. In character as Gollum.

“First of all, do they need an intimacy coordinator just for him to sit in his chair?”

Because if there's a windy day on set. Yeah. Do you think the P.A. is just bring life fish to Gollum? Exactly. Do the way we're just staring contest.

Who's going to do the voice first?

And I'm telling you, it's not going to be me. It's not going to be me. Gollum. You don't do Gollum? No.

You thought about it. I saw you pause. I was doing a howl from 2001 yesterday. That's good. Yeah.

And that was your limit. No. I'm just, I'm in a weird spot with voices. Yeah. Same low has been real big on the rewind.

Really big. I just like it. I was excited because I kind of like it when you get baited into it. And you find it in the moment. Yeah.

It's also like one of those things where like I just can't do a New Zealand accent. Like that's a Peter Jackson accent. I was like, no, Peter Jackson isn't actually gone. I think we're talking about Peter Jackson. I was like, no, Peter Jackson isn't actually gone.

“I think we're talking about Peter Jackson.”

I was like, no. Peter Jackson isn't actually gone. I think we're completely blinded. His circus is directed. Yes.

I'm called the hunt for Gollum. Okay. And friend of the podcast Kate Winslet is now starring in this. And I need you to explain this to me.

First of all, why would you go look for Gollum?

Who needs more Gollum? Second, where did this story come from? Since they had already turned one book into three movies 20 years ago? Gollum, this is taking place before fellowship of the ring. Is my understanding.

Oh, so are we going to de-age Elijah? I think so. Sick. I don't because because that guy got out of boat at the end of return of the king. And he went to the, well, there's no, come on man.

You know, you're no one I'm talking about. You've seen the third one, right? What year did that movie come out? I go three. Oh, four.

Well, ask me other questions about things I did or saw in 2003. He saw me in black and white. I saw you in black and white. After a few too many before the morning. Yeah.

This is my understanding. Is that it is taking place before fellowship of the ring? Okay. Because I don't know if you saw this is supposed to be largely, I know that Kate Winslet is leading the cast.

Okay. I don't know. If I had to guess, just like put me in it. Oh, go into my head. Sorry.

Okay. Go on. I've got some facts here. I think she's playing an elf. So the movie is set between the, the between the Hobbit trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy with Erdogan and Gandalf searching for Gallum to learn more information about the ring.

Yes. So it's essentially a fact-finding mission. But a movie. Yeah. Hey.

We're in a CGI monster. Can you tell us some facts that will be not relevant to this film, but to the next movie? Well, the thing is is that we know that they're for hunt fails. So best case scenario. Oh my god.

But the thing is is that here's the, here's the jam. Yeah. It's supposed to be largely an Arab-born movie. All right. And we go, won't do it.

So Leo, what all is going to be Arab-born apparently? You can just be Arab-born now.

So how young are they de-aging these guys?

How old are they going to make with you? And is Kate Winsley? Is she just a lateral? Or is she doing the Cape Lancia part? I don't know.

And Ian McKellon is going to be in it. Yeah. But I don't know. I bet Frodo will be like in the background, like, smoking a pipe. You know what I mean?

I don't think Frodo- What if this is Frodo's dirt bag era? But it's like Frodo can't be hunting for Gallum because when they find him in the Shire, they're like, this is your job now. He's like, you gotta be fucking kidding me.

Just a hobby.

“What if he was smoking a lot of the pipe and playing Golden Eye in '64?”

And just kind of like a 2003 vibe. Yeah. Listen to you, yes. I'm just saying, that's pretty cool. Or what if they wiped his mind like Peter Parker at the end of the Spider-Man movie?

Do you think they're going to try and squeeze a trilogy out of this? I mean, if it's really successful, obviously, those don't get into it. Like, oh, we've lost the trail of Gallum again. Yeah. We must keep going.

I don't really know, I'm not a big token guy.

I've just watched the movies. Do they ever do like what happened after they got Soron? Did they ever do somehow Soron has returned? Soron just an eye. What is Soron?

Soron's a guy. Someone play him? Yeah. And the fucking show and rings a power. Oh, yeah.

Okay. He gets captured. Right. But then his power grows when he's like in that tower. And he's in the eye.

And he controls all. Do you ever see the rest of him? Yeah. You see him in, like, when he fight Isldor? Uh...

[laughter] Don't fucking look at the camera. Don't look at the camera, Moonlight. Don't do that. Don't do this.

When we come in here, we come in here to laugh. You know, we come in here. We laugh until you start dropping Isldor. [laughter] Isldor.

He gets his hand cut off. Remember he gets his little fingers cut off by... No, he cuts Soron's fingers off. Ooh. The blade that's broken.

“And it's Isldor's pain, I think, and they got to put it together.”

Mm. And it's like Ergon's Uncle. Sorry, I was at parties. Okay. You were at the fucking comic book shop.

Being like, "Oh, new mutants. What are these guys up there?" After a new... [laughter] West Coast Avengers.

I've been having a deal with the time change. Well, two great questions. Most of the West Coast Avengers were more of like, "Laconic and Spirit." You know, it was just, like, "Our men is Wonder Man."

It's literally West Coast. Yeah. They're like California's sober. You know what I mean? That's not true.

Is it? Well, it was like... Were they based in LA, weren't they? They were based. They were 100% based.

He was like Wonder Man. And Hawkeye. Tigra. You know? Iron Man hung out for a while.

When he was detoxing. Oh.

They were always detoxing, right?

Well, detox to retox. That's what guys call it, boy. One thing. In 2003. A concert I was in.

Remember, you don't remember. You don't remember. Is there a door, but you remember. Fucking... The water buffalo song that Fallout Boy did.

It seems like you remember it. Dude. That's a good jam. That's a fucking anthem. Maybe they're best song.

This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. It can be hard to do your own thing when everyone else is following everyone else.

“But that's what some of the best films are about.”

An outcast, striving to make their own way in the world. And this is your sign to be that outcast. From us, from VW, from the other outcasts out there, take a chance. Make the most of every day and don't be afraid to view off course every now and then. Because if you don't do it now, then when.

Learn more at vw.com. That's the beauty of this podcast. What a journey we just went on. That was watch after dark. I've nothing left for it.

I've got nothing left for the show. Let's do the pit. This is what happens when kind of steps out by way chaos. We have to get to this. When we didn't do the pit last week because I chose to.

Center hockey. Thank you for taking ownership. I was like, it's okay because I don't really feel like anything. Super significant to happen on the pit. Right.

And now if you took that episode from last week and this episode from with this week and put it together. We need to talk about the rocky situation because it's screaming. It's screaming. It was it was a background note. Right.

Then they put it up in the mix. And now it's like Steve Albini's kick drums. It's like you cannot ignore this. Did you download? Did you buy from band camp the Albini version of it on the kill ticker?

I got you? No. Not yet. I'm saving up. This is your finish.

This is your finish. The bucket. The token books. You got it. I got it.

No. I got to finish this pitch dog for the West Coast Avengers reboot. I'm trying to get my guys involved and really take it. Take me seriously. Two wonderful episodes.

But I think the big headline coming out of it for me has been Robby's behavior over the last couple of episodes.

Yeah. In the future.

But like, you know, he's like, hey, you can stay at my place while I'm on my motorcycle road trip.

Which also, by the way, has been a very overt. There's an overt statement of what has been going on behind the scenes, which is that he clearly feels that Whitaker is his mini me and is sort of buying the scenes on the show though, not like behind the scenes like on the pit. No, while he is like, this dude is his him. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Possibly. Yeah. It's quite a supportive boss. I believe. But I mean, on the show, like he even in this this week's episode with his buddy Duke.

Yes. He introduces Whitaker as one of our most accomplished. Yeah. Good hands emotionally. So he gives us his apartment to Whitaker.

If you rewatch it now, like the goodbye to Jack when Jack's like, I'm going to punch an out before I have to punch back in again. Yeah, great scene. Great scene. Kind of weird.

Kind of like a little bit more final than you would kind of.

“Well, he's like, am I really not going to see you again?”

It's like it's like a strange kind of vibe to it.

Well, it also is baked into the DNA of these characters who we first met when Robby was kind of sort of talking Jack down from the roof of the hospital.

Yes. I mean, there is a morbid streak in their relationship. He has shown a general, like, not my problem energy. I think in terms of some of the, like, in the first season, everything that's happening in the emergency department seems to affect him almost on an emotional like on a foundational level. You know what I mean, especially the interference by the executives and the aging father. Yeah, I still think he has his touch with patients, but not with patients when they happen to work for him where this episode.

Yeah. Mohan has a panic attack after, you know, repeated calls for the fear. For her mother and also. What's the prescription for that? Sorry, go on.

And she's also like behind on her applying for a fellowship. And he dresses her down in a way that even, like, all the people in the department notice including Dana, who's just like, what's that about? Yeah. So I just find his, I find his behavior odd. Now, I think that this is just a great development for the character.

Yeah. It's been fantastic. And fantastically rolled out and, like, in a really well-paced way. What's your read on what is happening here? Well, there's a couple different ways to look at it.

“One is to remember that within the context of the show, he might just have seen your right us.”

This is his last day before a much-deserved vacation. And it happens to be yet another in an increasingly bleak series of days from hell. So I don't necessarily blame him for being a little bit of a short fuse about it. Particularly because, as we know, he has not necessarily a messianic complex, but he does have control issues and believes that he is keeping this thing together. And so it is threatening to his well-being since itself that he might not be necessary.

He's then what is he good for? So just on a surface level, you can accept that. Then you also have to understand that, I don't mean you. I mean, when watching that this is he's the main character and star of the show and executive producer and one of the writers and an occasional director. And so, despite the fact that he is quite, I believe, a democratic leader and shares the wealth.

This show is this man's story, as much as it is the story of the emergency room. So it has to be pushing him in a different direction than he had been before.

And it's interesting to see in the context of the first season, which set up the day being an enormous trauma trigger with all of the COVID flashbacks and his mentor and everything.

That in the end, I mean, it was a challenging day and his mentor's son's girlfriend died. And that was, you know, hideous and traumatic and violent and awful. His low point, if you remember, was just five minutes of collapse. That's in one of the murder finds, and Whitaker finds him. And so that's an intimacy that they share even if it's not referred to.

“I bring that up because I think in watching the first season, especially the first season of a show that was not guaranteed multiple seasons the way the show now is.”

I thought we were heading towards a much more... It's a potential... Not that he would die or something, but that he would be incapacitated or fail, and that would have to be a reckoning. Yeah. That's not what happened.

It does seem like in a slightly different rhythmic way we're building towards that this season. What I do not think we were building to, despite the loud revving of check-off's motorcycle. You're on the same website, I am on. Is Robbie in a die this season? Which camera?

No. Like, I know that television in all entertainment works on, you know, suspension of disbelief, but as I just alluded to, no whiley is the Dukati engine that fuels this generational success that the show already is.

He is not leaving the show, that it doesn't work like that. So I hope that doesn't rob anyone of excitement or, you know, of anticipation. Could he get an accident? Could his face... Sure.

Could he have his house breakdown? Could he, could he... Yes. Could this season end with a cliffhanger of we just got word that he crashed somewhere. We crashed somewhere outside of Montreal.

Sure.

That would be he would be making incredible time if he got from Pittsburgh to Montreal within the parameters of this season of television.

It's a great point. And if he did get an crash, driving that fast, there would be no coming back. So D...

“That would be like a fucking tron crash, you know what I mean?”

What if Duke was his late cycle pal? And it was just yet another opportunity for corporate synergy. Yeah. That would be sick. Yeah, I don't... Okay. Fair enough.

Maybe somewhere in Lack of the game. I was talking to Joanne Robinson about this. Joanne Robb are also recapping the pit every week on the prestigious TV podcast. And we were batting around worst case, best case, realistic case scenarios for what's happening here. And she actually...

Oh, she doesn't mind me saying this.

It was like, what if Noah Wiley wanted to take a kind of more behind the scenes role in the third season.

And basically, like, Jack is Robby next season. And Robby is Jack, where he's like, at the end of the shift I come in or whatever. It's my first day back after my accident or my own breakdown. I also think that there are threads connecting Robby and Langdon, who before Wittaker was the prince who was promised. And Robby's refusal to kind of give Langdon the resolution he craves with making amends.

That might be like, you know, be careful with what you wish for, because you may be asking for the same kind of grace later. I'm just... I like an idea.

“I would predict, here's the thing about the pit that sometimes is dazzling.”

Or dazzling in a way that is both exciting and entertaining, but also can be can take your eyes away from the fundamental truths of the show, which is that so much of it is still conventional. That's a good thing, in case of the pit. Like, this is a show that even in the midst of these like remarkable creative pirouettes, a character goes, "Do cyber attacks happen often in hospitals?"

Like, it still does that. Like, it's still, that's still the show. Yes. So, it's okay to sometimes do Arkham's scalpel and just be like, Robby's going to get in a bit of a pickle before the season's over and Langdon will have to save him. Like, could just be that, could be.

That is one of the low murmurings of story throughout the season that will get some sort of payoff. I also not to be overly cynical, but it's hard to be overly cynical in these times. This is a Warner Bros. show. And these times like, middle-earth, you know, in the second age of... In the second age of...

In the second age of... In the second age of... I would say, "Is ringhouse in what is this name?" "Is little door, dude." Sure.

Whatever, man.

You're trying to shame me, you're never going to shame me about this.

I remember a character from the first fucking, "Hod that movie." That's, that's cool, man. Yeah. That's great. For how do you...

Um... It's a little... This is in the slot ball. We're getting there. We're getting toward something.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the pit is extremely creative and nimble and takes chances and is rewarded for those chances that it has taken in a starty. You know, it feels like it's been a little part of our lives for a while, but it's only been a season and half of television. That said, it is one of the most crucial flagship shows of the Warner Brothers Discovery Operation as it attempts to dry dock onto Paramount. And that is not overstatement. Like HBO Max is debuting in the UK and Ireland and it is debuting with season one of the pit.

Like they held that show back so that they could premiere it. Because when it hits... When it hits the aisles... They're going to freak out. Yeah.

They're going to be like, "Wow, we really do have a special relationship with this failed state." But can't even fund their hospitals. My point is, they couldn't get away with a lot of stuff because of the goodwill they built up, the success they've had creatively. The awards they bring in, the attention, they've brought to the platform, the stabilization, they've brought to the platform. The awards they have won and will continue to win.

But if you walk into... Not a casey's office, David's as-loves office, which he's outfitting with new gold drapes having, you know, done the con of the century. But I'm working and rinsed himself beyond any known possible measure. Congratulations. That's the point of capitalism.

And you say, "No, while he's not going to be on season three of the show, that might get us some pushback." Sure.

“There's some other storylines that I think are really illustrative of the...”

Really beautiful job they're doing, writing this piece, this season. Allashimi, allashimi, who... I think has drawn some criticism for being a bit stiff as a character and perhaps... Was I drawing the criticism across the table?

Not generative AI, right?

Yes, generative. Oh, I thought it was a Gentic. I thought it was just supposed to help you, right? Oh. I don't know.

Why is Jenny Slate? She wants AI in the emergency department. And she's a little stiff, but although other doctors seem to dig her except Farabi. Over the last couple of weeks, it has been pointed out that she had not done many procedures or any procedures other than... Right.

The examination on Dana's rape victim. Yes, and some baby stuff. Some baby stuff, but had not done...

“She was more like calling shots from the... from the sideline rather than getting in there the way Robby and Abbott do you think she's clawed?”

Do you think she's clawed? No. But did you watch her do the trick thing? The slash trick? The slash trick first of all, like as many people have pointed out, if you go and do any reading about what was happening when she was in Afghanistan and with doctors without borders, she was probably working for a maternity hospital that was bombed.

I believe is this story. Okay. So obviously she's dealing with PTSD from that. But clearly, might have like, you know, a shaky cutting hand based on everything that she's seen. But when she does this trick, it's like, this motherfucker knows her stuff and everybody in the...

Robby's never seen it.

I've never seen that before.

Yeah. So that was pretty cool.

“And the way that they are not only developing that side of her, but even her reaction to Garcia who is the sort of head surgeon when she walks in is just like, what did you fucking use a bone saw or something or like whatever she said?”

So we talked about a few weeks. Yeah. She's just like, I just saved her life. Yeah. She says they'll be thrilled to clean up your mess. And she said, I think they'll be, maybe they'll thank us for not letting him die. Yes. And you can see as she walks out the door, her like shoulder sag a little bit like she's just like, it's getting to her too.

Now, she also says that she has never actually done one of these before. She had just done it like on a simulator. Maybe. Oh, you think that might not be. I wonder. She also, the other thing that I felt a little bit, what, you know...

That seemed like battlefield surgery to me. For sure. That felt like something that, like the stuff that Abba was doing in the previous season. She's also the one who, despite being essentially a robot for eight episodes, pulls Robby aside and it's just like being nicer to your staff. Yes. So she has depth.

She has layers. Speaking of being nice, there's two ways of reading what's going on with Santos right now. One is that the accumulation of stress over the course of a really tough day is forcing her to backslide maybe into poor habits about her workplace demeanor and eye rolling and snapping at people. The other one would be the writers are just more comfortable with her being a mild antagonist. And so I thought she was warmer with Whitaker. She was warmer with some of her colleagues.

I think she was a little bit more vulnerable.

She still Santos. She's still just like, I want to be, you know, I basically want to be the best.

But like, has a little bit of a brusk manner to her. Do you think this is more like, they're just comfortable having that performer in this character be? It's a good question. You know, I would say, and I should have said this at the top, I love last week's episode. I thought this week was one of the weakest of the season. Interesting.

And one of the reasons is, it just, these are not new complaints. These are not fatal complaints. These are things that exist in the show.

“And when more attention is drawn to them, I remember that I have a couple of issues.”

And one of them is Langdon's return, his recovery arc is very, very compelling and good drama, good character stuff. Langdon himself, and it's also very, well, we've talked about this before. Patrick Ball, I think is a really talented actor. He is also very, very pretty and very, very lovable with his puppy dog eyes that cause, you know, incredibly intoxicated young college girls with severed tongues to move over. They do. There's not a single moment in Langdon's performance appearance, where I worry that he's going to backslide into being some sort of addict.

It's just not written into the character or in the performance. So the fact that everyone, not everyone, the fact that one of the most reliable drum beats of this season is that Robbie and Santos fucking hate him and don't trust him. Well, Sanchez hates him for a reason, you know, because if she was wrong, that would have been the other career. Yeah, in that position. I'm not saying it's not legitimate. I'm saying that that drum beat is not as successful to me. Because Langdon's just walking around like a puppy dog being an absolute saint to people on the spectrum and anyone else that crosses his path.

Is that real, more or less realistic? I don't know, but it's the way that the character is written and the way that the character is played.

That she's just being petulant, that she's just being annoying.

“And I think that that's not a successful box for the actor or character to be in.”

The show moves so fast that all of us can be forgotten. And this episode specifically does move fast because there's been a water park disaster. True, it also, I did want to just note that Garcia who's making a lot of appearances this season says to Santos that she's done talking about Langdon. And this is a quote, if you're looking for someone to eat ramen in bed with and have sex, I'm your girl. Yeah.

I'm no Monti Hall, but take the deal. You know what I mean? Like that is a strong, again, I'm not, I'm not Monti Hall not how we rose. For you to be, if you're looking for somebody to eat just a beautiful, clean piece of fish and watch Moon Knight reruns. No, no, read back issues. You know what I mean? You don't want, not ramen because you don't want broth.

Yeah, you don't want ramen hands on your secret Moon Knight. No, I'm going to jump in you're sorry to be that guy, but you don't traditionally ramen with your hands. Yeah, so there's you get a little splash, right? Not if you do it right. Moon Knight's costume was immaculate.

So is the white wizard get off when he comes back? Who do you think would win the fight? He's the gray and then he turns into the white when he gets back from the ballrock fall. But he has. He's just trying to like, you know, go with the political wins.

All right. White Gandalf. No more woke Gandalf and nuanced. Tell me more about why you didn't like this episode. There's a structural reason, two structural reasons and a personal reason.

Tell me both. The two structural reasons are the the the pit coaster of the season. This is this is a methane not a pit water slide of the season. Well, perhaps this is a methane not a show thing.

“I think we had we were conditioned by the first season to expect calm warning and then all hell to break loose.”

The cyber attack happens and we're like hell has arrived.

But in fact, they are incredible.

They adjust things are stressful, but they are basically, you know, we're all getting our prescription to make a team patches and we we get through it. Whatever that I if I heard Dana say that correctly that it is a 20 milligrams patch. That woman should just smoke. He does, but she should just do it in the in the yard.

Right. We should just go back to 19. I don't know when the last in your little smoke in the hospital was, but to when Pittsburgh. It's surprising. So so I think that the the sort of up and down like anticipation, the end episode ends last week.

Like there has been a catastrophe at the water park. Oh, they did a little. They did a little, uh, what what he called shell game and tricked us. It wasn't the cyber attack. It was this that comes on the heels of it.

And then though catastrophic, it appears to be too hideous injuries and casualties. And then we're on to the next thing. So I think I was a little rhythmically out of sync with the episode. Um, the other thing was I compliment the show for this.

“And so I'm not going to be inconsistent and say that I think it wasn't worth the swing.”

But the way that they have found these pockets of we're going to do a quiet moment or a quiet runner through another stressful episode.

It's been incredible to watch in very successful throughout the season.

I thought the attempts to make this the mom's episode. Roxy, uh, java's mom. Java's mom. I thought was a little clunky. Yeah.

And you could feel the intention in ways that didn't fully pay off. Yeah. It's weird. It's like three makes a trend to make it. Yeah.

Work. Yes. If they had just done Roxy and Javadi or. Yeah. That would have probably been enough because it's like Javadi is actually working with Roxy.

And obviously is going through an emotional reaction kind of seeing this. But that's a good point. So again, it's not even wrong with it.

The show attempts to do things that lesser shows would never even attempt to do.

And I admired for it. This one didn't work for me. And the other, but the ultimate one was, you know, the, uh, I, I can deal with a lot of like, I don't mind seeing the vocal cords or the, the, the braiding of finger flesh. Yeah.

But this was hitting my particular, uh, Vegas nerve center of saying goodbye to children. Oh. And worrying about children. I thought you're going to start about the light getting cut off. That's fine.

You got two. You know, uh, no, like that. Do you imagine the looking over and somebody's like washing your leg with saline? Which, I mean, of all the things you could be doing with my severed leg. That's probably top three.

It's probably what Joethizman felt like. Cut. You've crossed the line, sir. When LT hit him. You knew it.

Yeah, I remember. I didn't think it was like some random Monday football broadcast. How do I get in this position? Okay. Anyway, that's just like that.

That's tough for me. I know that I'm not loving. I, I, the Roxy storyline is, is done well.

Uh, the show doesn't blink, man. I appreciate that. I am a little surprised that they are under the circumstances. They are just like, yep. You can just hang out in the yard.

And it generally is not my experience. But, uh, so be it. And it's, it's, it's very well done. It's, it's become.

My, my, my kind of like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm going to like kind of maybe look at my phone first.

I'm just, but that's just because of personal stuff.

“Yeah, which, which again, I think we both admire the show for doing.”

Like, I think, I'll repeat myself. But like, if the pitch for the show as we understood it was, it would be like a yard, but goryer and more intense in the way that we can do with prestige TV. I think we all undersold the idea that they would also be able to do the flip side of that, which is actually consider life, death, dignity, um, and the choices that we make, you know, in those moments.

So I, I admire it, but it was, it's, it's a tough watch. Um, okay. Well, we can put a pin in the pit there. It was something else you wanted to talk about. Um, with it.

No step position. I don't really have a comment on it. I did. Oh, I'm so happy we didn't see it. Yeah.

My God, dude. That was awesome. We did the see it. Although that would be an interesting wrinkle for the show to be like, the pit attorneys at law.

Well, that's the spin off.

They could do that medical lawyers, but I'm glad they didn't do it this episode. Uh, what about, I'm going to ask you this. I know industry ended 10 days ago, but Chris, is ketamine having a moment. I had no idea. It's so prevalent.

I mean, obviously, like, you're here about it as like a therapeutic and, uh, and we go to book in all the time. Yeah. But you, and then as a party drunk, but I did not know that they were just pumping people full of cave before they amputated or, or reattached.

Right. You can use it both ways. Yeah. Get it off. Get it back on.

The horses were living right. The whole time. It makes me feel, but, okay, I've a lot of thoughts about that. It makes me feel better about the whole luck thing on HBO. Yes.

You know, because I assumed those horses, though they, they don't no longer with us. They're going with us, but at least they were, you know, their nervous systems were. They died. Going to see Fred again and Thomas Bancolton.

At least the visions of them. It does make me have questions about Shaling Woodley's favorite horse and race land and paradise who runs away during the apocalypse and runs back three years later, looking none the worse for where it ran in search of the cave. Found it and just knuzzled around it.

Do you want to just jump to paradise now, then? Do you have any. Dr. Mohen stuff? I, I'm, I worry that her mom is calling a lot so that there's probably something up with her.

I don't think she's just calling to be like, I can't get the TV to not mute. Do you think in the spirit of the show's inclusion of family members that Dr. Mohen's mother also has a UTI from having loss of sex? Jesus. Do you think that everyone's loved ones are just out there?

They're offering a male sister to get after it.

“And that that's what's going to bring them into the yard.”

Yeah. Just too much like a hot summer again. Jersey, I think Mohen's mother is somewhere else. Like her mother is like, not in Pittsburgh. I don't think.

What if she rode the Robbie Express and got there really fast? Let's say you, you have your social guy. You have a lot of friends. Are you not? What?

A social guy or one of your friends? A social guy. What are you talking about? Just because we disagree about the importance of Isldor. It doesn't mean we're not friends.

I'm just saying that the, the, the, the, the middle-earth community that you're a part of, I think, you know, lifts you up during lonely moments. You know, people to talk to. You have the horse ladies of Rohan to chat with. Yeah, I do.

You know, with all of your ketamine. I think there was only one horse lady. I thought they were a whole, see again, you would know. Miranda Otto played the horse lady of Rohan. Yeah.

That sounds like the crazy old lady with the horse. I thought the Jews part of like a tribe of warrior women. No, it's mostly dudes because she's all frustrated that like, the women in, in Rohan are not allowed to go out and be cavalry officers. Oh.

She's like, I'm just, I'm here to like worry about men. But I, I can fight and then she fucking does. Wow. She kills that. Um, the flopping that the, when you say it's named.

Guys, it's called winged beast. Or the ring. It's definitely Otto filled that for you. Nazgul. Fuck.

I'm going to be so embarrassed by that. That's really embarrassing, Chris. I'm not going to be able to show my face at the next gathering. Um, the Nazgul. So she kills Nazgul.

Which? Great. Kudos to her.

I always said that women could kill Nazgul.

Just so you know. Sure. In middle earth, upper earth, lower earth, whatever. People know that about me.

“My point is, if one of your, the, people in your life was like, do you mind if I bring my friend to the function?”

And then they show up with Duke. What is your, what are you thinking? I mean, Duke seems like a great hang. Nice. That's my question.

What would you do? I mean, I would just be, it would, it would shade my understanding of my, I mean, I would count into your kids birthday party. But I, I would bring Duke if like you were like, I'm having drinks and everybody's excited.

I would invite Duke. Okay. All right. I'm glad you don't judge Duke or Robby for his presence in your life. It's your garden start, clear for the cooling.

By action in quality and the kleinste price hand in hand. To buy a special menu can be seen in just 24, 28 or 48. Or garden touch garden share in just one, two and 80. In decades, all garden products in our field and in the action app. Action.

Blind the price and goes for it.

Here's what happens with modern television.

You blink and five episodes are up. And that's the case with paradise. That will be the case next week with the Madison.

“I believe tomorrow they're putting up or tonight.”

They're putting up three episodes of this new Taylor shared in show. And then they're finishing it the next week with another three episodes. That's the Kurt Russell Michelle Fy for show. Just put it in this to say. They filmed two seasons of the Madison.

A year apart, two six season episodes. We waited until they were in the can and now they're releasing them in a yearly schedule. And pluribus should have done that. That's my galaxy take. They probably went on pluribus until like 27.

And it doesn't sound like Vince Gilligan is like, I got pluribus season two written. No, I know, but I'm wondering if we can save this for a bigger conversation about these release dates, but like, what's the trade off and what's better? We're just so fully divorced from like the rhythm of like of once a week. You know, when you're not on HBO pretty much now, like,

except for like the boys and the couple of other shows, like weekly drops are not really a thing. I can see why they did it with paradise. Yeah, there they drop three and we're already two weeks passed.

Yes, you've watched the first three I've watched the first four.

We're not going to spoil anything about it.

“Well, not going to spoil anything major, but we, I think we are going to talk about why they drop three”

and where the show focuses and how it has expanded the pallets and season one. Okay. If you don't mind. The first season of the show was that shit crazy. And we liked it for that.

And then I had an episode in particular that we thought was a little bit. And about the end of the world. Yeah. And this season, I mean, I don't even know if we want to go with specific granular or big picture because I think Monday if we talk about the first five episodes.

I think that I want to talk about our discussion. I really enjoyed watching the show and I really enjoyed how a knackeringistic and old fashioned it felt to watch the show. Not dissimilar from what it can feel like to watch the pit. Not because they are similar shows in tone or rhythm or intention.

But because a big old sloppy. We're going to wind all these different outlandish plot threads together. And we're just going to keep saying yes and yes and. And we're going to do flashbacks and we're going to make everything emotionally convenient so that it chimes across timelines and ways that just life actually doesn't work.

It reminded me of the glory days of lost. Now, it's not lost. It's not lost, but I think it's very consciously drawing from lost structurally.

And let me just in the context of the first time.

Maybe not spiritually and philosophically, but I think it's drawing from like the balance of like a present day, stop timeline and a flashback coming together to thematically tell a story about one character every episode. And it keeps pushing it in ways that I really admire. And the people who are making the show really know how to make TV in a style that is kind of out of fashion.

First season, I don't think it's a big spoiler, but like. Sterling K Brown is a secret service agent in a beautiful. Retirement communities slash Florida town and he's protecting the president. And then over the course of the season, you find out that essentially the world has ended due to a catastrophic environmental disaster. And these are the 25,000 people who made it to a bunker created by the US government.

Yep. The end of the season, in addition to a lot of other insane things happening, he believes that his wife who did not make it to the bunker with him and the kids may still be alive out there in Atlanta. And he takes off in a single engineer plane to go find her. This season begins with Shangling Woodley as a failed resident at the pit, I believe.

It was a little overlap there. The medical school dropped out, who was in her third year of medical school. Who chooses to instead become a tour guide at Grace Land and do do her medical training or just her natural loaner sensibilities, survives the catastrophe with her pal security guard by grabbing all of the baked beans and novelty candles and hiding in the TV room at Grace Land.

It's a big swing for returning eminominated show to do something where you start with a different character and only connecting the dots at the end. And then only getting really to the setting of the first season in the third episode.

“So that's why you were saying, and I agree with you, why they dropped three to sort of hold people's hands.”

But I gotta say, like this, just something very, very entertaining about a show that privileges,

Like when I watched this first episode and you can speak more, you know, in more detail about it if you want,

but like I watched this first episode where she survives the apocalypse for three years, basically alone two or three years. And then armed men, you know, break down in crash into Grace Land looking for something. And it turns out not only are they all young, good looking and kind and left a reference pop culture, but one of them is played by the guy who played young Captain Hook in the Descendants movies. Thomas Dordy.

Yeah, he was in Tommy Lies and in Gossip Rolls. But mostly he was in the Descendants movies. And he's like flirty and charming and it's like a sweet, meat-cute romance. Yes. And I watched this and I was like, you know what, this is fucking a lot better than the last of us.

Because we have seen the version where the raiders come and sexually assault her and steal everything and she must hunt them down in vengeance. I'm like, give me this version of the show instead. Sure. Why not entertain me for God's sake. Don't bum me out.

I was watching that same episode and that same kind of move that they pull, which is like,

“we're going to make these guys look like the reverse or here, you know?”

And instead they're just a charming bunch of guys who make references to ABC Family Fund Friday or whatever. TGIF. TGIF, sorry. And they're going around trying to like stop nuclear meltdowns. Friday was a big neck from me.

I was out, you know. Is that on the street? You've got the broken conventions. Cause playing, fucking hobbits. Uh, and the question I have is whether or not the zag is because of a story of person once

teller is zag is because it's like everybody's going to be expecting this, but we're going to do that. Right. Um, every single episode of this show, especially this season, has some like God damn. You guys are, this is happening. Did you guys are doing this now?

Like, there was a, there's another plan. There's a, a group of us boys. There's, yes. Like, you're just like, it engages the part of your brain that is, I guess it just wipes out the boredom because I,

I, I, and I don't know whether or not I ever feel like he's trying to say something more profound about humanity,

“but I honestly don't give a shit because it is sometimes it is just TV.”

And I'm like give me entertainment for 57 minutes. And the performances are good. The filmmaking is decent. Like, and the, the storytelling is really, really compelling. And it's also okay.

And this is also overlaps with the pit. Like, it's okay to say that one of the reasons why we, as a society, as a people often like, um, entered the entertainment that we like is because it is neat and ordered and competent and clicks together in ways that actual real life does not. You and I both love a, let's turn the camera on and find the spirit of the thing.

Like, we, you know, you were a big mumble car guy. Like, this, I, I, I am not trying to be like anti art here, but there's also an elegance and a craftsmanship in making an episode about Xavier, like, surviving a plane crash and an encounter with the lost boys and popping his dislocated kneecap in without anesthesia. Rime perfectly with his meet cute origin story in a hospital with his missing wife.

Yes. Like, that is preposterous. It is hackneyed. And yet, they were like, let's steer towards this and give the best version of it. And I admire it.

I look at that episode the way Nick Offerman looks at a nicely made canoe or a chair. Sure. Me too. And like, the thing is about this show is it's not very wasteful.

“Like, there are a lot of shows that I think are like enamored with indulgences that they get because maybe they're budget or whatever.”

This show, it's like, if, if he asks for a blanket, it's because he's going to give the woman the blanket later. You know what I mean? Everything is a check-offs everything. Yes.

And there's not really that many wasted lines. Like, everybody is saying the one anecdote that will then echo back at the end of the episode to be some sort of life lesson. I think it's really, it's really well done. And I'm really enjoying the season.

The first three episodes go, we have this Shaling Woodley character.

Annie, we get a Xavier episode in the second. And then we basically get a Sinatra episode in the third episode. So that's Julian. Julian Nicholson's back took that shot to the sternum. Was it sternum or was it kind of like, looks like she kind of had like improvised slash trick done to her?

It, whatever she says. Yes. And crazy as Jane, the assassin. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I like that, like, I, I just love the guessing game. And I, I think it's just a really entertaining TV show, honestly.

I, I don't have like a, it's okay that it is not trying to educate us on the evil that we are capable of.

Or where we are is a society or anything. It's just like, it's just some preposterous, jenga tower stacking of story and plot anchored by, like I said at the top, like some attempt to adhere to emotional honesty or, you know, compelling, relatable emotional journeys.

“And that's what, that's the bread butter TV.”

Yeah. And we get away from that. We have gotten away from industry. Yeah. We can have gotten to the mail back.

Let me just do this because I think actually what I tried to do is grab.

Thank you so much for your questions, first of all.

And people were sending in questions over the course of the season. We got to some of them. Some of your questions were about episode six or episode seven. These are mostly postseason questions that I grabbed. And I'll start here with, and I, I grabbed these questions with the intention of kind of like,

spinning the conversation forward on industry. So they were not just kind of like revisiting things that we've obviously talked about quite a bit. Scott wrote in and he said, I'm a first time commenter in a long time listener. So anyway, at the end of season four episode eight, right after they flashed the title card industry.

Yeah. There is a very quick subliminal image of a very sinister looking Whitney. Yep. It's kind of bathed in this reddish light. Did you guys catch that?

I did catch it. I also caught Mickey Downs explanation of it. And another interview, which I thought I would share. It's Whitney looking through a glory hole. We shot this entire scene.

Did you do with glory holes?

“I didn't know that there was like, yeah, is it slight seeing?”

We haven't gotten to that part of Lord of the Rings. We shot this entire scene of him in Lithuania, having escaped where he's talking to a man at the bar. The implication being, is that man a potential lover or is it something that's going to be a threat? And you leave him on this moment where he follows this guy into the bathroom. The guy says, come in here and there's a glory hole.

And we shot Whitney through it. If you were eagle eyed, you'll see it.

We used one frame of it basically.

I bring this up. Not only to explain to Scott what happened. I'm sure he's come across this information as well. But also that there's just like a lot of industry footage we didn't get to see. Yeah, I'm glad you bring it up.

I think that's something, you know, and we will get a chance. I'm sure to talk to Mickey and Conrad again. But we were relatively limited in the time we had with him because they're busy with season five. And we didn't really get to ask that line of questioning that I think was interesting to both of us, which is it seems like from the interviews with Ken Lung and from interviews like this,

that they shot a lot of stuff that they didn't use. And I'm very curious about creatively the thinking behind that. Do is that just their plan? Do they like to overshoot and pair back?

“Were they surprised that they ended up in that pickle because of the crush of production?”

And they just ended up with more than they anticipated? What is their compass in deciding how close to the bone to cut it? Because again in that Ken Lung exit interview that he did with New York Magazine, he eludes to a lot of scenes that helped him with his understanding of the character and of the performance. And we got none of them.

And look, you love sculpture. Sculpture is all about taking away and finding the art within. But also, that is a very tricky balance. Sometimes maybe the ellipses aren't enough. All that is to say, I did not leave that finale being like,

"Give me more Whitney and Lithuania." But I think that the inclusion of it is intentional. And it does create the, I think, the fair expectation that that story isn't done, which is consistent with the show. Yes.

Jessie Bloom mentioned in one of the last episodes of this previous season. No one ever really dies on the show. People come back, people show up, people haunt. And I think that's exciting. Some it asks, here's something I was wondering about.

Am I the only person who was assuming that Whitney's compromise database included footage of him in Harper, especially since they had sex at his place? Mm. And Mr. Narrative is everything would use this footage as another desperation plan and attempt to flip the script about stern towel short of tender.

I have to admit, I was kind of surprised that this was never really explicitly reference.

Yeah. Again, I mean, like they have that obviously intimate conversation. Yes. Frankly, if they had had that conversation having never met, I think it would have been just as weird and interesting.

Maybe the intimacy of it is a little bit too much given that they had never met in person. It makes sense knowing that they've had sex. I do think it's strange that if Whitney is power by all this blackmail and all this, a power that he holds over people is footage of them having compromising experiences. And now Yasmin is moving into that world or so.

I'm a little bit surprised that that was never hinted at. This is a ongoing aspect of our conversation in our criticism of the show, which is how much of this is galaxy brain, like we're supposed to think that. We're supposed to wonder what he has in his back pocket, the domino's left of fall. And then the, again, and I, this is not a criticism, there are necessary building blocks of contemporary dramatic television.

is you have to get the characters in the same room.

“You have to get them to meet each other.”

My more cynical take on the first half of the season that I'm still, you know,

I still stand by was that there were a lot of chess moves that were purely to ground things and to set things up rather than to pay off emotionally. And one of them was Harper. Honestly, she haunted the season as we said to them in our interview, a little bit like a ghost without consequences really.

And without a lot of stake in anything. And so crossing her with Whitney felt like an attempt to ground her to connect them, to give it a reason, to spark the engine of the season in a way. And also to give us some behind the scenes insight into Whitney psychology, and who he is before we understand the depths of his alternative lifestyles.

I'll tell you the lifestyles, but also of his potentially of his, of his evil.

And then we never hear from it again.

So you could argue both ways and we'll see. And just so everybody knows, I'm condensing these questions for clarity and time. You know, like, some of them are much longer and they're much like industry season four. You're leaving a lot on the cutting roots. I will say, if we have time at the end, I want to read a rather long but quite gripping,

just piece of commentary that someone sent in. Oh boy. Okay. Ryan writes in post finale. Oh, sorry.

Yeah. Ryan writes in post finale of season four. I'm doing some brainstorming on what season five could be about.

“And I think it has to be at its core about Harper quote unquote killing yes.”

Harper versus yes is what this show has turned into. And it should end with that as its core narrative. What does quote killing mean? Not sure as it is, whether it's physically the end of a life or just bring her to her knees and stop her from continuing. The evolution of her becoming her father.

Maybe Rob comes back to help her bring to help bring her down. Savannah, which is meant as mentioned. Stefano, which is the fan of which? Stefano, which? Stefano, which.

Stefano, which is mentioned Silicon Valley in his and yes is first meeting.

But unless we do a five year jump, I think that the season would be centered around a political fight with money driving the center of the battle. Obviously. Have you given much thought about season five or you just like these guys now are in. They've left peer point and they've left the workplace so they could do anything they want. It's more that than the other.

“I think there's there's there's two things.”

One is post finale. My admiration and respect for the season has grown. We talked about it when we were recapping the end of it. They accomplished one of the more challenging transitions that a TV show can. Attempt.

Do you become something completely different? And did so with adding viewers adding intrigue adding layers to the story. And by the way, I've seen people completely misconstrued what we were saying. At no point where either of us saying that industry is the air to the wire or on the same level as the wire in terms of quality or ambition. We were saying was clearly is the wire is an interesting comparison point for what their goals are in terms of building a fictional society layer by layer.

That's purely what I'm saying. Yeah, make that comparison. So back to your question. Here's the challenge I think that they face going into season five. I mean, they could do anything which is both exciting and and a challenge.

I think that what's very very clear to me and what I love about the show and our journey with the show and covering the show is that it is so clearly now as successful vehicle for what animates an interest. It's creators and there are no there no ceiling on that anymore in terms of where it could go and what it could say about our absolutely cook society. I love that. What I don't know and what I think might be very very difficult for them to navigate is it's rare to enter the fifth and final season or the final season of anything where I cannot articulate what it's protagonist wants.

I don't know what Harper wants and that has been an ongoing thing Harper has been about world eating about domination about crushing about not conforming about not breaking about not being traumatized. Those are a lot of no, no, no is or everything's what is the yes. What is the thing that she wants that will bring her to a place of either two a place of completion and success. Daniel Flame view style. Why does it have to be success? I'm saying it doesn't have to be it's it bringer to the edge of it to be understand it and then we can sit with ultimately the achievement or the lack of achievement of it.

It's just that maybe what is she going for so the fact that we don't know that heading into the last season is it's just no worthy it doesn't mean they can't pull it off but I think that every successful ongoing show of this era. Like even something like madmen, you know, which spent honestly, I mean it's one of the greatest shows of all time, but there were seasons that felt like circling drain where Don was just like when now he's swimming and now he's sleeping with this person.

And that's like in the first season no season five or six he brings that brings him to house. And so what was left in the notebook or in the mind for season seven unclear but we always knew what was motivating him and where he wanted to get to.

“This is not madmen it doesn't have to be I think the success of the season has proven that they are rewriting the rule book or even the playbook of what shows ought to be.”

But I just I know with interest that we're heading into it without really understanding what its protagonist is going to be doing at the start of the season.

Jessica writes all three watching season four the show has felt a little more to me and then it clicked that peer point as a workplace is no longer a physical anchor for the characters. And story to keep coming back to seasons one through three were clearly located at peer point all be it with lots of excursions the answer for that question in season four is either not really anywhere or it involved a whole lot of plot description. This isn't necessarily a criticism because rudderless drifting is a pretty good description of where our main character characters are in their lives, but I can't think of another show that is made this kind of radical shift from a workplace workplace drama to not sure what you call this.

I'd love to hear your thoughts from a TV writing story constructing perspective I'll just say one thing I. There just aren't that many workplaces anymore like I know that the finance and banking world still value and are they they they they have a lot of office attendance and participation and a lot of the work happens in person in in a physical space play.

One of the sort of themes of the season has been the disconnection and dislocation people are feeling and we're going to get to an email about that in just a second.

These are the internet their digital lives their consumption of the world happening entirely through their phones and through their virtual selves. So it makes sense that they don't come to work on over anymore and have to see each other from across the table now we lose iconic moments from the show.

“I think that's the first thing that we can do is we can do that and we can do that.”

And it is probably a show that needed to be 12 or 13 episodes to properly set up the nuances of working out of Eric's hotel suite or you know all the things that we kind of experience or where and I thought we had a little bit of this at tender and there's multiple episodes set largely at tender I think. What do you make of the location I think it's well I think we articulated is right I think that making con Rhett have been celebrated for being young television creators and I think that what they are leaning into and I think this is a really fascinating and bold choice is they're leaning into the young part of it and I think the show is increasingly generationally accurate there are no careers anymore.

We have wanting something or steering towards something is very very outdated and just as they called me on my kind of conservative leaning view or criticism of the show of trying to get you know trying to normalize things. The show that briefly felt like the voice of a generation type of show and capturing young people or as I guess and how it ended and specifically I'm thinking about girls which was sort of about you know millennial amelessness and it literally ends with with Hannah moving up state and having a baby and finding happiness in motherhood which for the record.

A lot of happiness in parenthood as well but I that felt like a it is it's like the third act in a jet apatown movie where it's like we can say crazy stuff but in the end it's just about the nuclear family and really you know showing up every day and punching a clock and that world is a fallacy and particularly for young people and I think that the show is very very dialed into that and wants to make something out of that.

“Yes, I also think that that is very challenging from a dramatic standpoint and that is their challenge.”

Yeah, TV works, TV has decades of of blue prints about like what works what people come back to week after week.

Yeah, it's hard to tear those pictures of your co-workers become your family and whether even if you're sign fell then you don't hug. You're still about these four people who love each other more than they love the crazy world that they're stuck in. The last one is from GTH, it's more of a comment than a question. Great. Good evening and thank you both Chris and Andy for for diligently covering the season of industry.

It's been a hell of a ride, a lot of salacious plot details. But from one watcher to another big ups on spreading your wings and fluttering them above the story to try and analyze it on a macro level. So thank you, GTH.

These two creators have changed this show so drastically shifted dynamics, prune branches made such beautifully innocent credit choices on the who what went and where to focus on my question throughout watching this season was why.

Opting against putting out another season of bumbling through the dead-eyed fluorescence of an established financial institution must have been a huge undertaking.

“Moving the microscope onto new test strips taking apart different institutions assumptions, nations, it's so difficult. It has to be more of a challenge. It has to be more umph than simply capitalism equals bad, right?”

Yeah. I believe the mission statement of this season is episodes of TV, pepper through Q1 of what will be being incredibly difficult year for our species is so much deeper than people give a credit for. A subject matter that most movies and TV shows will never touch with a ten foot pole is capitalism plus the internet as a vector towards widespread ontological fragmentation slow march towards dark age mentality. Questions about reality, your own sense of being whether or not this is real stemming from an almost religion's allegiance towards an illogical set of baselines that we have been forced to bury beneath us the moment we were born.

Capitalism assumes infinite growth in a world of finite resources how in the world can any of us expect to not go completely insane when that is where we are starting.

I have no notes. I agree with all of this. Harper in the middle of season three sits back in sizing size and groans. I feel like I'm losing touch with reality to me this moment sticks out as much part of a pattern of the show picking at the edges of its own construction to bring attention to the flimsyness of the audience at home. The multiple illusions to the power that lies within constructed realities Whitney and Henry's entire back half of the season elements like jumping through time and space picking the last season the last scene of episode one back up after 20 minutes of episode two.

Even Rishi's final moments before his ankle shatter having a drugged out communion with a light coming through the curtains this image of a godly epiphany while Charlie heat and explains the world's relationship to itself and the idea of itself. Multiple ghost dads digital or supernatural. All of it man. It just speaks to what I think are the creators main concerns with this show. The same thing that Ari Astor had in his mind when making editing the same that Rado Jude had in his mind when making do not expect much from the end of the world.

The fact that the algorithmic therapy coming to us via unfettered billionaire aid just cannot coexist with the nymphy and beauty of the world. And yeah, these are our listeners. Daniel I just cut the feed. By the way, sincerely kicking in Monrat a man brother. I mean that is beautifully said and there is an element. If you felt like there is a if you're listening and you made it this far and you've listened to our coverage of the show all season and if you feel like there is a any dissonance between my I think pretty granular criticism of aspects of the season with my larger belief and enthusiasm for the project.

I mean, there's an element of what we do here where I feel like we are focusing on the aesthetic choices of the flatware in the dining hall when they are actually covering the Titanic as it sinks. And not many shows do any of that. And it's a bummer that they're the ones that they may be the only ones watching on the wall. But I'm glad that someone is making a show that is diving right into it that is not afraid of now, even as I am fucking terrified of it. So it's it's remarkable and the fact that they are doing a fast turnaround to bring this whole conversation somewhat in line with each other.

They are they are I think they posted on Instagram. They already did the first. The first thing this is the producers are into the studio or even into the network. So they are operating as close to as real time as this moment in television allows and that's a very very good thing. That's a exciting thing. Got any watch after dark for me before we go.

“I think I'm I don't talk doubt. I feel tapped out. What do you got?”

I just didn't know if you wanted to hold me accountable for my sourdough choices. Oh, well, I'll say this sweet greens. Yeah. Have enough tough quarter. You're doing your best to float them. No, I mean, I'm trying it unwind. I've I've talked about this, I think. Yeah. If you have like dependencies on very specific products, you are then enslaved to those products and to these like huge corporation.

You're in your mouth. Well, and this is the problem is that my Nicaret is going out of style. My salad place is now putting like the bad part of kale into the kale salad.

My my toothpaste. They stop making my toothpaste. I just switched to other toothpaste. And it's just like when that kind of stuff starts to get to you.

“Yeah. You need to volunteer for the boys and girls club. You need to go do something with your life.”

And so I'm not I'm trying not to be a fucking emo guy about my salad. It's not being as good as they used to be.

I was just really struck by your resistance to the slot bull term because I still believe. And I don't know what your order is. I've maybe you've talked about it in another podcast. But the word bull is in the order. Okay.

So, and I have no problem with these these items for lunch. I just will say that like I have never been more full in my life.

Then after I order one of these things where you can add like roasted broccoli and almonds and chicken and this because there's this weird disconnect between the assemblage of ruffage that you have and the quantity of it and how you don't feel full until you've eaten the whole thing. And then you feel worse than you've ever felt in your life. I feel nothing when I eat these. Putty. I feel like I topped off the tank. You know what I mean, but not a drop too much.

I've been refueling and that it automatically is just like no more.

“Do you know what we should do? You should come over for lunch sometime.”

Oh, I'll cook you lunch. I don't think you mean that. Of course I mean it.

So I just go back to your house right now. You make me lunch.

That sounds so nice. What are you going to make? What do you want? Well, you're not Dave Chang. What are you having the fridge? What are you going to make? I am I am low on protein options right now, but I have some lovely tinned fishes. Like it opened up for you.

I don't want to eat that for lunch honestly. Like I don't want to eat tinned fish for lunch. You don't have to. I'm just saying that's where we're dealing with. Is that what you make like a toast kind of thing? I could do a toast. Sometimes I make you're going to you don't want to eat this.

Sometimes I make like little like brothy soup type things. Like chick peas or chicken and bunch of greens, lemon juice, olive oil. You just rip that up. Yeah. Yeah. This is something you do that I don't do. And what I do is go to parties. No, I'm not even going to parties that much anymore, but apparently like I remember is a door.

So I think that there's as we've talked about there are trade-offs in both directions for child full and child free lives. And I have said goodbye to the part of me that remembered things about works. In return, what did I get? You're not beating the allegations. Do you fucking or such a nerd about Marvel? You know so much about comic books.

“I know that's why you can't you can't do this field. You're not a man.”

You can't be like, oh, I don't I don't even do that anymore. I'm too busy with my hobbies. This field's so good. Also Amanda isn't beating the allegations because not only is she just like, oh, just Captain America have a sword or a shield. She's also like sentimental value. Did nothing for me?

So frankly, I don't mean to cause cross-pod beef. Sure. And I don't know at this point. She's a devoted listener. I don't know if she does watch after her. I don't know if she makes it 70 plus minutes in.

Because being friends with us is like always hearing watch after dark.

Kind of. Thanks to Kaya. Thanks to Kaya. Thanks to Sarah. We'll be back on Monday, talking about the Oscars. And we'll go into a little bit more depth about the other two episodes of Paradise.

“Well, we'll do we'll do a more granular breakdown, I think.”

Next Thursday, I think you can expect some pit. I think you can expect some Madison. We'll check that out. Maybe special guests. We'll see. I always get excited when you talk about what's to come. Even though I have more knowledge than maybe the average listener.

You really tease it well. Thanks to everybody for writing in. I'm about the industry. And thanks to GTH. Have a good one.

Take it. Take a walk. Touch some grass. See you guys next week. [MUSIC]

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