Politics for ME (and You) with Graham Platner

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candidate of the day. But boy, it's what it's today. Tuesday, tomorrow is Wednesday, April 29. Who knows what's going to happen apparently? The Iranians are begging Donald Trump to be able to unconditionally surrender and know because they're collapsing. They're apparently completely collapsing except for their ability to choke off the straight-of-home moves. Apparently everything is falling apart, but their ability to keep all boats other than Russian luxury yachts out of

the straight-of-home moves. I don't know about you. I am sure you're all fucking exhausted by all this to have the White House correspondent center and in gunfire and somehow that get flipped around and being assault on apparently Jimmy Kimmel's jokes. That's the land of absurdity we find ourselves in today's society. But there is hope. And the hope is in the people that rise out of, you know,

I've always believed this when they say, "Make America great again. Donald Trump will make America

great again, just not in the way that he intended because the reaction to his fragility and impulsiveness and incompetence will spur people that you would not expect to rise above the madness and help to begin to rebuild the very thing that we need in this country." And our guests say, "Maybe one of those individuals," and I'm very excited to actually talk to him. He is kind of came out of nowhere. One of those ordinary people who has suddenly stood up and raised their hand,

and said, "Hey, maybe I could help run this thing." He is, for Maine, a simple man, a mainer, a marine, an oyster farmer, and now a U.S. Senate candidate for the great state of Maine. Let's talk to Graham Plattener. Well, folks, we are excited today to be talking about a young rising voice in the Democratic Party for the great state of Maine, a mainer, mainer, mainish, mainer, mainer. Manor. Manor is the correct term. Manor is the correct term.

A former marine oyster farmer, U.S. Senate candidate from the great state of Maine, Graham Plattener, what's happening, man? Oh, you know, not much, not much. Everything's real

“mellow, having a real mellow mellow existence. My life is definitely on the exact path that I”

thought it would be. Yeah, everything's chill. Very interesting. Graham, can I just even getting started on this? What drove you this idea to run for for Senate in Maine to join that assisted living facility that is the Senate down in Washington? What possessed you to even consider something like that? Well, I mean, and do you mind if I give you like the two-minute speel on this? Because I think it's rather important. Give me the speel, baby. That's that's

bunch in my 20s, early 30s, in the Marine Corps in the Army. And what I got back from that was

very disillusioned was very, frankly bitter. And then was also struggling with all the standard stuff that one goes to after, you know, multiple heavy combat deployments. And I went to college in D.C. I went to George Washington. I didn't graduate, but we kind of went to school was a bar tender, actually bartended on Capitol Hill, which gave me a look behind the curtain. And I realized that the wizard is in fact a very small man. And so, I just seemingly dumb. And seemingly, well,

“so honestly, there was part of my disillusionment was actually living in D.C. And kind of meeting”

people in the political space and realizing it like, this is it. Oh wow. Like, I went through

all of that horror. I saw, like, my friends got killed. I saw awful stuff because of you people.

You know, like, you know, there was this kind of like, yeah. Like, frustration. But, um, so in 2016, I moved back to Maine. And after I moved back to Maine, things changed significantly. I started getting help from the VA. I moved back to my hometown. I got into oyster farming and I, I wanted to check out. I wanted, I just wanted to be left alone. I thought the whole thing was broken. I didn't want to have any part of it. I just wanted to sink all my time and energy into the place that I'm

from started making a living on the sea, got into diving, got into oyster farming, became the harbor master, got really involved in my local community. And honestly, in that time frame,

“all my disillusionment disappeared. Not with the bigger system. Like, I went, I went from”

blaming, like, America and Americans to, because I used to have this feeling like, why did you make me go do this? Like, why did you guys make us go do this thing in Iraq? And I've got to stand that, like, I, I, I feel a life of me cannot figure out what the purpose was. And when I got back here and started really, really settling in, I realized, I became quite convinced that the average

American is a truly wonderful human being. Most people are, most people are normal. The problem is,

we have a political system that elevates a lot of abnormal people. And yes. So you get cable news. Yeah, I just watched. And I've always been, you know, I've always been a very politically active and interested person, but not in like electoral politics. So I, I got, I really sank my time into my, into local governance. I became chair of the planning board. And then I got really into the community organizing around social justice and economic justice issues. And in, in all doing all of that,

I also became to the realization that when the system itself is quite broken or not even broken. When the system itself is built to be a raid against the average person, you know, when you're working at the ground level, you're pretty much just putting band-aids on things. And, but I did think that that was exactly where my life was going to stay. I mean, I really, I moved back here to Sullivan, Maine, where I currently live. If I live on the road, I grew up on. Do you really,

you, you're on the road, you grew up on that? Yeah, I live like, I live a couple houses down from the house I grew up in. Oh, fantastic. Which is nice, you know, that's very, and like, and I come from, I mean, my town is a thousand people in it. And it's where I grew up. So like, I, I know everybody, everybody's no, me since I was a kid. It's a very nice, I don't know, it's a nice feeling. Last summer, ended July, some people came to my house.

They had been in Maine for a few months working with the AFL CIO and a bunch of labor unions, looking for someone to run for US Senate against Susan Collins. And they were looking specifically for like a kind of a working class person on kind of working class economic policies. And they had found me because I did a video a few years ago fighting against the Norwegian salmon farm that was trying to come into our bay. I, a bunch of us mobilized against it. And I did a video with the group.

I don't know that there's anything I've ever heard that's more Maine in this, but you guys come to my house because they saw your Norwegian salmon video. And then they looked me up and they saw I donated to Bernie Sanders. And, and they were like, oh, well, maybe this like there, they were like,

“we should go check it up. So they literally came to my house and said, we think you should run for”

United States Senate. And my wife and I quite honestly told them to fuck off because that was the weirdest, weirdest, most random absolute proper response that you should have given. I mean, it was also like it was in the morning. I'm getting ready to go out of the boat.

with a more kind of fleshed out idea. They're like, listen, this isn't like they're like,

“this isn't like a joke. They're like, we've got someone who can help you do small dollar fundraising.”

We've got someone who can help get your name in the papers and we've got someone who's who can shoot a launch video, which was the launch video that got made. And at that point, I mean, because my wife, we have no money. And so I'm like, I know how this said. I know how these campaigns work. I'm like, where how is this going to uh, is this going to happen? And essentially, they were like, look, we're not like, we've got some people who can help early on.

And I'm like, well, so there was this moment where for my wife and I we spent a lot of time being frustrated with the larger system. We spent a lot of time thinking that and in ironically, I've also had a theory for years that the United States Senate because it was set

“up to be a specific ballwork against working class people to protect elites.”

That that actually makes it a unique place of power where if we can get a few normal people

into the U.S. and I felt that way for years, never expecting that like I was going to be,

right, you'd be one of the normals. No, I never once, but then it just opportunity showed up. And so I mean, it says to my wife and I ask ourselves, do we actually believe what we think we believe? Because because if we, if we do, if we do, then an opportunity like this to do something of this scale and of this visibility and and to frankly organize like using this as, I mean, because my wife and I have been very engaged with a lot of local community organizing. And we

realize like, this is a, this is an ability to do a statewide organizing project on a scale that like we never could have dreamed of with resources and visibility that we never could have dreamed of. And so we said yes. So so the fuck off became actually this might be an opportunity to put our principles that we've kind of been living by for all these years into practice. Yeah. But we didn't expect it to work. We didn't have any idea that this would actually work.

I mean, I mean, the early on there was this element of like, it was almost like things are so bad now and people are so frustrated and including us were like, we might actually pull this off. I mean, there was this like, but we did, but we certainly didn't expect it to explode the way that it did. I mean, I thought we really thought this would be like a month's long, slowly building, kind of diligently going out and getting my name out. I mean, because I'm literally a random,

I mean, I'm a random oyster farmer from Sullivan, man. It's insane. I have to tell you that the entire setup is somewhat Disney-esque.

Oh, it's not just sort of this, I, you know, well, first of all, there's always that. There's kind of

always the, the, the, the, the fable of a Mr. Smith goes to Washington, a kind of, you know, an honest man who has real ideals facing off against a corrupt system that is fueled by money and toxicity and all these, so there is an archetype for this. But I'm curious in, in your mind, why did the sort of Mr. Smith goes to Washington thing catch such fire? What, what do you think you tapped into? What frustrations were it that you were able to articulate so well early on

that people just caught on to, if I may, like, you weren't mimicking any other politician to my, I mean, there's, there's hints of Sanders in there, but like, you were definitely a bit iconoclastic when it came to what you were putting out there. And it didn't seem focused grouped and considered or any of the other artifices that occur with, with a lot of politicians.

“So what, what kind of took off? I think it's, honestly, I think it's two things. The first is that I”

actually have politics. Like, like, like, I have, like, over the years throughout my life through my experiences overseas coming home, my disillusionment, I want looking for answers. And in, in the looking for answers, I read a lot of books and I developed, frankly, a theory of power. I developed a deep critique of the American, not just the political system, but like,

the party that, the party that I've always been a part, I mean, I've been a Democrat. I mean,

I've always been a registered Democrat. I've also my entire life been very frustrated with the party that I, that I, that I'm in, you, you know, me both sister. Primarily around that theory of

parties never, maybe articulate what it's trying to do. Like, what's the end goal? Never really

articulates a clear set of policies that to get us there. And then never, never seems to want to wield power to make those policies a reality. And you're, you're, you're nearly. So, Graham, are you suggesting, sir, that your career is built on principle? What a wild concept in this modern era. Upwork. Not to be confused with, uh, downward. No, this is upwork. Then if you've got a business, you're feeling, I don't know. Like, uh, I, I give you some more people, some more people that

“maybe are, are good at this and, and not necessarily bad at this. Well, how do I, how do I figure that out?”

Well, we got yourselves a solution. You got yourselves, uh, upwork. It's a one-stop platform.

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Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. No, no, I guess that's an old modem. That's not it. And I got to work on my references. Anyway, like I say, upwork is free to sign up, posting a job is easy. Visit upwork.com/tws. Post your job for free. That is upwork.com/tws to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That is a U.P. W-O-R-K.com/tws.

“So I think that the fact that, like, I, like, the reason that it doesn't seem focused”

group and the reason that my messaging is is because it isn't. Like, I don't, like, I write my own speeches. Like, I give my own opinions when people ask me them. Like, I don't, like, I've got, like, communications people we talk about ways to, like, clean it up and make it easier.

Well, I don't, I mean, I'm less. I've well, oh my god, they're the first two months of the campaign.

I, like, John, literally, the amount of news articles that existed, which were this man swears too much. And I was like, dude, I'm like, I'm a former combat Marine and I work on the ocean when you expect. Right. See, only language to fish understand. It is. You got it. You got it. You got it. You got it. You got it. You got it. You got it. Well, more points. You got it. You got it. It's the only language outboard engines, understand. If you don't swear it outboard engines, they won't work for you. It's a

“scientific fact. Hashtag. But so there's that part. There's the fact that, like, I honestly think”

people understand that I'm not full of shit. Like, like, like, like, because I actually do believe these things. And I remember it was early on. I went like on CNN. And I, you know, I went on to ask me questions. And I just gave, like, yes or no answers. And afterwards, all these people called me. And they were like, oh my god, it was so real. It was so, like, like, like, like, like, like, you came across as so authentic. I'm like, what the fuck?

How fucking broken are we? Oh, oh, oh, baby. I know. I know. I know. That's literally like a mermaid that came out of the sea and people are like, what is happening? So there's that the other part, though, is that I'm just saying the things out loud that I've heard from my neighbors and my friends and my community members four years. I mean, with something I, you know, I've gone all over main for the past nine months now. We've talked to like tens of thousands of manners. I hold

multiple public events a week. It's all open to the public. We don't screen questions. We don't screen people like anybody can come. And so I've been talking to everybody, Republicans in the Penn and Stemocrats, the whole nine people that just don't care about politics, the whole nine years. And if you ask any manner, do you think you live in a political and economic system that has your best interest at heart? Nobody says yes. Right. Nobody. And by the way, I mean, you transfer that to any state in

America, I think. I mean, I think that's absolutely the undercurrent. I mean, Graham, I have to tell you, you know, look, I talk to people in politics all the time and I've done it for many years.

like, it sounds ridiculous, but I cannot tell you how can, how often you, the Democrats just have to

get back to those issues of affordability. We've got to get back to what people talk about around the kitchen table. And I'm like, I don't think people actually talk around the kids. I think they're

“eating in their cars. Like, but that's what I'm saying. I think there is a, a refreshing,”

openness and honesty to approaching something this way. And I cannot wait to see how long it takes for you to be consumed by that system. Oh, honestly, like, that is, do you worry about that? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Of course. And I don't, I like, I don't worry about, look, I just say,

I love Bernie Sanders. And, and I've developed a very nice relationship with Senator Sanders. And

it is very clear to me that Senator Sanders has maintained his integrity because he believes. And, and like, I will spike, and I believe in the same thing, Bernie believes. Like, I think, I think we have a very, very similar sort of foundational politics, which is like, we care about we care about people. Like, it's, it's a politics of humanity. And it's a real polity. It's not a politics of, like, trying to, like, get into power for your sake. It's because it's only in,

it's only in these, like, I just have a theory of power of these political institutions that we,

that exist around us. If we want to change things, we're going to have to, like, use them in some way.

Like, I would love if we could just do something else. But I, like, right now, it doesn't seem like that's possible. Now, I do think that, because, like, I'm, I'm not really a reform candidate. I don't, like, I very much, like, Bernie believe in the need to have a political revolution in this country. Right. Like, I, we need to restructure things. We need systemic changes. Like, it's not a, but it's not nihilistic. I don't, I don't know. God, what you talk about as, as nihilistic, I think,

and it's something that I think the Democratic Party has really struggled with, which is, I think they're still relying on the idea that the new deal was a good idea. And that was in the 30s, and that was the Democrats. And so let's just figure out ways to continue picking around that. Let's do a tax subsidy here. Let's do, but they don't think

“broadly and systemically in the way that I think is necessary. And, and maybe that's what you're”

thinking of. Well, and, like, if I'm any kind of Democrat, I am a new deal Democrat. Right. But, like, the new deal wasn't picking around the edges. Exactly. Like, social security wasn't a tax credit. It wasn't a block grant. It wasn't a marginal amendment to an existing policy. Francis Perkins and FDR and a bunch of labor unions invented social security out of whole cloth. And the, the CCC, the WPA, the TVA, the rural electrification administration, all sorts of things.

And listen, some of it worked in some of it didn't, but there was a theory behind what they were accomplishing. And, and there was also the political will, which, like, in FDR had a theory of power. I mean, for instance, mid 1930s, Supreme Court is about to say that all the new deal programs are unconstitutional. FDR against the wishes of his own party, yes, says that he's going to pack the court. Suddenly, very quickly, all those unconstitutional, new deal programs

became constitutional overnight. Yes. Nobody changed the language. Nobody, like, like, like, it's almost, it's almost as though political power goes a little bit further than just the words on the page. It's almost as though that political power isn't fact its own unique thing that needs to be at times wielded creatively. And, you know, like, and if that hadn't happened, then this country doesn't get dragged out of the depression. Right. If that hadn't happened,

we wouldn't have set the stage to win the war. And do you see parallels with this moment,

“you know, one of the things that I think about some time, you know, to be fair to the system,”

Roosevelt did have large margins. Oh, you know, at that time, because Hoover with, you know, the Republicans had fucked up at that point. So grandly that there were margins there that could be worked within. But even when Democrats have margins, I can recall when they've had the Senate and the House and they had a super majority for a little while, they still did that thing that you're

Let's make sure that this program for healthcare isn't healthcare for everybody, because that's

“going to scare people. Let's just give a subsidy to insurance companies so that they will just”

bring more people into this broken system that we have. That's, I mean, that's it. I mean, and which is exactly what has happened. And it didn't fix anything because the problem isn't about

the problem isn't marginal. The problem is systemic. And systemic, I mean, I mean, you know,

I, this is like, it, in the reason we know it's systemic, by the way, is because it's happening everywhere. It's not like one state has a problem with housing. It's not like one state has a problem with healthcare. It's not like one state has a problem with affordability. It's the entire country. And, and so, which is very clear to me that this is a obvious systemic problem. But like, okay, I'm going to, because we rose a little bit, I'm going to do one more. I'm going to, I'm going to

move one more. Roosevelt, we had to rose a vote. In 1928, Roosevelt writes that the problem

with the Democratic Party today is it has no constructive policy and vision of the future,

and that if you ask the average American what the Democratic Party believed in, nobody would be able to tell you. And that the entire theory is that we're going to wait for the Republicans to screw it up so much that we'll just magically get power again. He said that in 1928. Wow. And, and at that time was Chuck Schumer, the leader of the Senate.

“I'm just curious. I mean, but possibly, yeah. Same shit, man. But here's the thing, though. And this”

is what, this is why I'm not, this is why I'm not remotely hopeless. Roosevelt writes that in 2028. By 1933, he is president and the nation is fully engaged in the project of fixing itself

out of the new, the depression. That's right. Like the first hundred days of his administration,

right? Like the whole, there's a whole joke about the alphabet agencies, because they just invent like 10 new agencies, just into existence. And created markets where they didn't exist before, the joke, and created safeguards so that bank runs didn't exist, and created financing for housing, which didn't exist. That's right. You know, all of those things did it in a racist way, but still did it. Well, I mean, it went like in, but the thing is like the, the, those new deal programs

and in the society that they built really in the 50s and 60s, which had a myriad of faults. Yeah. I mean, like a, a faults of, I mean, of racism, faults of leaving out immense amounts of the nation, for, however, what we have to understand is we can look to that and say like we can do that in a not bad way. That's right. To blueprint. In fact, in fact, had we done it then in a more inclusive manner, we probably would have had a better society. So, but my, for me, the big, the big lesson here

is that one thing's can change pretty quickly. Now, let's, I mean, it's important, remember, 1929, right in the run up to the total collapse, we had full deregulation of speculative financial markets. We had, we had rampant wealth hoarding, or money. Money was no longer in the real world. It was just being hoarded in vast numbers. We had a small amount of Americans owning pretty much all of the things and having all of the wealth. You know, I mean, none of this resonates with the modern times at all,

“but it's also why I think, and this is what's really important to me. In this moment,”

we need, as the, whether we call it the democratic party, whether we call it like a, a, a, I don't know, like a more economically populist look at our politics, either way, we need to be ready. We need to be there with the answers and with policies already written, because I do think it's going to move fast. The Trump administration has so much, the Trump administration has destroyed so much of the norm, so much of the kind of, the general way of doing business.

And in many ways, the spirit, the emotional spirit, I think, of Americans who are afraid at the edges by just the, the, the exhaustion, the constant assault on all of our senses. When, and, um, personally, when we've had a number of moments of crisis for our democracy throughout our country's history, right? 1770s, 1860s, 1930s, 1960s, in every one of these moments, the Americans that rose the occasion to protect the project, they understood that they could

we need to extend them new rights, that to protect freedom, we need to come up with new definitions of freedom, that, that it was, in fact, the status quo, the system that we had,

“that's what brought us to the moment of crisis. And so it isn't going to be enough,”

or the exploitation of those moments, you know, that the system oftentimes no matter how, as you said, they put forth ideas that are going to elevate people. The system tends towards

exploitation, always in corruption, and that that tends to lead to those moments, as you say,

a collapse and reinvention. It would not, and I honestly think it's because, well, we, we democratized our politics, but we never democratized our economy. And within our political system, ours, yes, within our, like wealth equates political power in the system that we have. No, of course. So without a democratized economic system, you are always going to eventually find yourself with these consolidated moments of wealth,

“which will inherently create consolidated moments of political power, which we keep doing this.”

I mean, you're seeing it right now play out in the tech world, and we can get into this, you know,

you'll talk earlier, a little off camera, about the $2 million that they've flooded into

Maine for Susan Collins, and it came from people like Carp at, at, at Palantir, but to your point, and to the point of the 1920s, there's this one industry where trillions and trillions of dollars are funneling into that industry through deregulation and through wealth capture and all these other things. And then they're turning some of that money into political power, and it's this cycle where they're just funneling the money that they've gotten through deregulation

and the fact that capital isn't the tax in the same way that labor is. And now they're putting that back into the system to consolidate and keep that power at the top. I'm, okay, I should know. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna have to be art. I'm gonna have to be art. I'm gonna have to be art. I'm gonna have to be art one last time. Bring it. FDR me. So in, in, in, 44, FDR puts out the economic bill of rights,

which is this, which actually I'm usingly enough, it became out of the first real nationwide polling that was ever done. Oh, wow. In 42 and 43,

the administration did a massive polling effort across the country to ask working Americans, what are the things that you need? Now, unsurprisingly, it was, we want security in our housing. We want jobs that matter that pay us a working, a living wage. We want the ability to collectively bargain and join unions. We want access to health care. We want access to education. 1994, FDR puts out the economic bill of rights, which essentially says, we, we as a nation,

in order to democratize our economy, we need to provide as rights, things like housing, health care, education, collective bargaining, all of it. When he kind of lays it out, he says, and I'm gonna paraphrase here, but he essentially says, look, if we do not, systemically change and not allow for this consolidation of wealth, we are going to wind up eventually right back where we were in the late 1920s.

And even though that this nation defeated fascism on the battlefields abroad, that is going to engender and create fascism here at home. And then he dies. Wow. He dies in 45. What an exit letter, though. Well, in with his death, dies the political will to bring that economic bill of rights into a reality. And I look,

“I honestly like, had we, had we implemented that in the late 1940s? We live in a different society today.”

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“smalls.com/tws. And let me ask you because this, everything that you're talking about, I think”

brings up to me. So I want to bring it more specific to the Democratic Party and sort of where they have failed to bring that broad base thinking to bear. We've got to tax the rich, you know, what you hear from Democrats, a lot of stuff. We've got to just tax the rich. But if you don't connect the money that you're getting to the value that the voters are going to be receiving for that money, it is a hollow pledge. And nobody gets behind it because you have not earned the credibility

that voters need to have that you will be using that money responsibly. And for programs that make sense, as you said, not just another tax credit subsidy, the Democrats seem unable to connect money to value in a broad way that resonates with voters.

“And can I tell you why I think that is? I would that exactly why I'm asking, because I don't”

think they actually do want to tax the rich. I think I think there are a lot of people in the Democratic Party who want to use that language in order to try to like garner votes, but they don't really want to go through with it because that would really piss off their donors. Oh, that's it. I thought you were going to say something else, Graham, actually. I thought you were going to say, because they don't know what to do with it. No, I mean, I don't know actually what to do with

the money. I think that is also partially true. I'm there. We have a political class right now that exists that has really grown up in the politics of the last 50 years. And the politics of the last corporate money. And that's right, certainly. And so that system is going to elevate certain kinds of people with frankly certain ideologies or certain kind of like even just like emotional relationships, which make them not want to do something big. I mean, it doesn't like a system

like that does not elevate people who dream. It elevates people who are going to be transacted.

What do they always say, Graham, they say, don't let perfect be the enemy of good, which I can

understand with those systems. And you don't want to get paralyzed. But you also, the counter to that is don't let good be the enemy of what's possible and too often that becomes the mantra. And that's been my look. I'm 41. My entire life. And your voice is 62. Your voice is my age. I know. Well, maybe it was my time in the Marine Corps. Coffee, it's cigarettes, baby. Coffee, cigarettes and yelling when I was in the Marine Corps. So I don't do it. I don't do it. But it's a, ironically, I've had this

voice even before the coffee is. You were the kid with little rascals who's like, let's put on a show.

I mean, it's a joke, but it's not that much of a joke. Yeah. But the, uh, the problem is,

as people that are elevated within that system, they're not going to want to, to like think big. And that's, I might, so my whole life, I've just heard from establishment politicians that like,

And that experience is somehow like the experience that's going to, uh, get us something instead of

nothing. The problem is their experience is within the system that can't seem to do anything.

And like, and I actually think that that's a bad experience. Like, I don't think that that actually equates to a political vision, uh, or even a theory of power for that matter because it's not about not about getting things done in the surface of something. It's just like being able to play the inside baseball for the sake of playing the inside baseball, not in the service of a greater goal. And I think, honestly, that's one of the biggest problems that we have. And in like in,

uh, so in like meanwhile, like, this is why I think we need a lot more normal people in politics because the experience of normal people, like my experience is having to fight and deeply stupid wars in seeing, seeing the reality of that. Yes, um, it's also coming home from those stupid wars and like then not being supported for many years and going through like the problems, then it's like trying to start a small business and going through the problems of like dealing with

all of like, having the experience like trying to figure out how to make life work. And in all within a system that often is kind of arrayed against you. And it like we need more people with that kind of experience because when you have that kind of experience, you're living in the material realities of policy, not that not the, not the, not the words. Right. Right that down. You're living in the material realities of policy. That is fucking

“dead on. But let me say too though, Graham, and I, and I think it's important and in talking to you,”

it's something's kind of, clicking in my head, which is because we all talk about, you know, normal people don't talk like that. You've got to talk to normal people and you've got to get outside of it. And all those things are correct. Yeah. But we also need kind of rosetta stones. We need some people that can help translate those lived experiences. The material realities of living through the effects of policy into those broader kind of philosophical and policy

hierarchies that need to be structured. Yeah. And I feel like that, if I may, feels like a little bit of the magic I'm seeing from you is that you're able to have live that experience and then translate it into Washington speak to understand how that experience can translate into the changes in in policy. And it's such an important connection. What are the weirdest, I actually think my, my education on this was in my time on planning board.

That's interesting. Planning board in in Sullivan. Yeah. Yeah. Because like on planning board in a small town, especially, you like craft policy, implement policy, and then see the material outcome of that policy, sometimes within weeks. And it's happening to your neighbors who are going to come tell you if it's fucked up. And so like there's a, like for me, that was a really

incredible experience. Because like you really, you'd be going to like the words on the page

“actually translate to a, to a material thing. And you have to be very careful about and also”

more importantly, though, you have to be flexible. Because sometimes you'll write the words on the page, you implement it. And then it does something different than what you thought. And then you need to be willing to really interesting. Does it make you distrust bureaucracy or does it make you in that instance, do you begin to understand the frustrations of even well-intentioned procedure? Yes. Yes. And I, and I don't like, I, I'll be like, I'm not mistrustful of bureaucracy,

because I honestly bureaucracy in some ways is necessary. It's how we keep systems functioning.

The problem is we've resulted in like a bureaucracy in bureaucracies that cannot be flexible at all,

and are captured by a lot of times the complexity of bureaucracy is put there by money interest, because they know they're the ones that got team alloyers. That's right. You know, they're the ones tax loopholes aren't put in there by poor people. I mean, regulatory capture is a real thing. I look at like even in the small, in the small business food world,

“I've dealt with it firsthand. Like they're, you're like the only way I could meet the standard”

is if I was like a multi-million dollar company that could afford all this nonsense. And you're like, oh, that's why, because this was written by a multi-million dollar company,

who made it to the policy. And that's like, you're like, oh, that's, there it is.

“And they don't have the time. Believe me, and that was the, you know, I remember being down”

Washington, we were talking about, it was the packed act that we were talking about, burn pits for veterans, things like that. And I remember a representative coming up to us going, this is a terrible thing that's happening. But like, we're really busy. So could you guys write it? Could you write the bill? They're asking us, like, couple of idiots. Like, we're like, sure, we'll, we'll write it. But it made me realize like,

I imagine that somebody on Wall Street, somebody in a telecom, they might go like, absolutely, we'll write it. We'd be delighted. I mean, honestly, that's, I think that's, I don't even, I think that is what happens. Right. I mean, like, that's, yeah, yeah. You go, and, and these are things that are written by lawyers. I mean, meanwhile, like, you know, what, a community organization writes something big, and, you know, and then they give it in,

like, I don't even know what this is. It's just written, I mean, like, it's just this, it's structurally arrayed to benefit those with wealth and power and an army of attorneys,

“which is, I mean, I think that's why we continue to kind of fight ourselves in the streets,”

we fight ourselves in. Um, Graham, can I ask you a question? It's, it's a slight change of topic,

but like, well, first of all, let me just say, you know, all I heard about you for a while was,

hey, this guy's got a fucked up tattoo and some Reddit posts that aren't any good. Yes. And yet, as I talk to you, your candidacy, uh, the way that it's resonating with with people, it couldn't make more sense. It's logical. It has, I can almost watch the bottom stair and you walking up the stairs as something that is organic and builds naturally and makes total sense. So I imagine the frustration, and I'm not saying people's backgrounds

shouldn't also be a part of their story and the challenges that they face in some of the things, but I'm saying it must have been a slightly frustrating experience to see the story that you're describing, which feels so organic and so grassroots and so common sense oriented, be overshadowed by, yeah, things that you might have regretted not done exactly right, or also have no real pairing. Yeah, I mean, it is, it was a uniquely frustrating experience. It still isn't sometimes,

because you know, but to like, to see myself being framed by people who have never met me,

who know absolutely nothing about my background, really, uh, who like just latched on to this, like, oh, this guy said dumb things of the internet 15 years ago and, and I'm like, man, man, I did, because I was like a angry young dude who got back from my fourth combat tour in, like, was isolated and lonely and spent time pitching on the internet. But let me ask you a question, Greg. Why? Yeah, so you just said something really interesting,

which is angry young man, back from fourth deployment, online struggling, why weren't you think you captured by the alt right? Because boy, do you sound like their target audience to be captured by the anger of that movement? Because that boy you're in the timeframe, you have the experience of it, white guy, working class, angry vet, struggling to fit in, you are fertile soil brother for that kind of recruitment.

Why do you think it didn't go that way? One is because, even in high school, I had some absolutely spectacular teachers who sort of open, who opened my eyes up to, I would like a criticism of the larger system that didn't require you to, like, look for scapegoats in other working people. So you didn't fall into the like pronoun trap, were you like, I didn't fucking pronoun people. No, I like an info for Trump. No, and I was in, and so like that,

on, so like, and also of this, I have two very loving parents who might like, who very much

“engendered in me this idea that like, you need to be open with other people, and you need to be like”

empathetic and compassionate. And I think my lucky star, so that I had, I have two wonderful parents that did that. But I will say the other thing is like, after I, when I got back, I, I definitely,

like, I had a community and a community, hence why, you know, hence why the internet, because I

certainly wasn't getting it in the real world. But I was, but I was also going to college, and in school, I became friends with a number of people who had very, very, very different lived experiences

“than mine. And in joy that I realized that like, oh, like, the, the best thing for me to do”

is to like spend time around people who have had a totally different life than I have. And understand that their life, their lived experience is just as valid as mine. And, and that the more that I can, the more that I can, I can, one, open myself up to those people, and then also have them open up to me. The more I get to learn about the human experience and the more I get to learn about, and it's really difficult to do that, and also start thinking that you should like hate other people.

It's so like, I think in some ways, it was those sort of, I had, I had a good foundation, honestly. Right. What is, you know, the internet is so good at reducing things to two dimensions whereas life is obviously you're living in three and from what I understand sometimes for, but you know, I'm wondering if that, if that world did you understand it's appeal, because I imagine anybody who's a Marine or anybody who's served in Iraq and Afghanistan knows those guys, hangs out with those guys,

loves those guys, loves other reasons other than some of their politics, totally. But I also imagine you understand the siren song of exactly what you're saying, and where you cognizant of it

“when you were looking for a community, and did you ever feel it's pull in that way?”

I also got a lot of that in the Marine Corps. Like the Marine Corps is, I mean, if we're talking about like people want to be part of the community, having a purpose, feeling connected, and like in for young men, there's the whole aggression and violence thing. Like, I was the Marine Corps infantry. I mean, it doesn't get more of those things than that. Has aggression and violence in that's the training, but also, but I also got to the end of it

and realized that it didn't fill any holes in me. Like it didn't, in fact, it left me more alone in more isolated than many ways. And so like, so for me, there's like, I did kind of already know that looking for more of that was not going to be the answer. I kind of got like the

“maximum version of that, or the maximalist version of that, and it didn't, it didn't work, right?”

You didn't need the, all right, you were enlisted in it. So you didn't, you had lived it.

Yeah, me, like, and don't be wrong. I mean, like, I will always be proud of, I love the Marine

Corps. I still, I'm very proud of being a Marine. I love, I've many, I mean, the guys I served with still remain some of my closest friends. But it is definitely like a, you know, it's, it's a hyper masculine, certainly when I was in, it was all male. And like all things that are virtues there are definitely not virtues in the normal world. And then I had to go out into the normal world, learn that the hard way. But then also, the thing that actually made me happy was real community.

Like, the thing that actually ended up filling all the emptiness inside of me, it wasn't, it wasn't rage, it wasn't anger, it wasn't any of that stuff. It was literally like just spending time with other people in the place that I live and like, in working with people on projects to improve all of our lives. And suddenly, in all of that, I was like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm a, like, I'm a legitimately happier person. I mean, I spent years to like really, really disillusioned.

And then I moved, then I moved back to Maine, started working on the ocean, which has another big part. I mean, it's, it's hard to not feel a sense of place when you're like on the sea, on your boat, looking at the seals and the eagles and like, you know, like, it's like, what, what, what ocean, I'm in Jersey, man, what are you talking about? Yeah, Maine's, Maine's pretty, I mean, and that's it's like, I, like, I, like, I am so luckily lucky to be where I'm from. I'm so lucky that my community,

when I came home, but really kind of wrapped its arms around me in some ways and like,

and it allowed me to come back. Like, I finally got to come home and I was lucky enough that

actually is my home. It's the place I was born and raised. That has a lot to do with it. But the big thing was like, really just engaging with human beings and, and building that sense of,

Yeah, it's complicated. So like, the thing under, like, it's never going to be perfect.

But it is, I don't know how to say this. It, like, in working with other people, and connecting with other people in real life, not on the internet, but in real life, that is kind of what rebuilt all of my hope and it's what rebuilt all of my positivity. And it was, it was, and I didn't have any of that when I was looking for it on the internet. I didn't have any of it when I was really, I mean, like, like the military kind of fills that

hole for a little while when you're doing it, but the moment you leave it, it all goes away. And now you're alone. And so it doesn't actually fix it. It's not like a long-term, sustainable version of community. And in long-term, sustainable community is the thing that, like,

“actually is, I mean, that's why I'm doing this.”

It's super, simple, integrated and balanced. And the time and the money that I can't be able to understand, for all of this in the back of the house. Now, the cost of the test is on Shopify.de. You're viewing everything from within. You, you're talking about roots. You're talking about, I was a drift. And I went back and, and I planted these roots in my community. And here's how I did it. And here's how I rebuilt my sense of self and my sense of purpose. It is a story

grounded in lived experience. And I do think that, you know, it certainly resonates with me, even though my experience in the world is so different than yours, because I can touch it. It feels really tangible to me. It feels really grounded in a kind of hierarchy of needs that I can grasp rather than cable news, platitudinous nonsense. Yeah. And that is what is so missing from our politics. It's also, it's the part that gets me. It's not how people interact.

But like, I mean, like, that's the thing that gets me about this whole experience. And like,

like, I always get the question, like, from journalists to like, what do you think explains the fact

that you, a random guy from Eastern Maine, is now like, yeah, I mean, like, we're, you know, I'm like a 40 points on a two term elected sitting governor. And, and you know, I'm pulling far ahead of Susan Collins. I mean, and so they're all, they always call, they're like, how do you

“explain this? And I'm going to say, you know, honestly, it's because I think, because I just like”

talk like a regular human being. And in many ways, I'm coming at this very much from like this space of just being down here in the real world and seeing what's going on, which is, and the other thing to do is like, I also don't think that voters are, well, mostly because I am one too. Like, I don't think we're this like massive people to be manipulated, right? Like, there's in the Democratic Party, it's totally bad at this, by the way. There's still this like idea that we

got in you like, there's like these magic words were like, oh, we didn't use the magic word last time that we made people think we give a shit about them without actually giving a shit. Like, it's, it like, not dude, people are smart. People, like, they don't like when they're being like, they don't like the magic words. They want you to say things like, no, we want you to

“have health care. That's why we have this universal health policy. And here's the plan that we have”

that's going to happen. And here's the plan. The money we're talking about to the value you might

receive. You know, the frustration with the Democratic Party is always kind of this, which what they'll

say is this, the strategy is authenticity. And you're like, right, that's not a strategy. That's just the attitude. That's just a thing. And then you can smell the thing that really rubbs me the wrong ways. You can smell the meeting on them when they talk. The meeting where they went, Donald Trump's resonated with them because he curses sometimes. So the next day, Chuck Schumer

the the marketing. You smell the strategy. You smell the PR on them almost at all times.

Has there been any connection, Graham? Have they, you know, look, the Democratic establishment has certainly put their calcium money and their poly-market money on Janet Mills. And that, you know, is there, have you felt any sense of any curiosity? Has there been any, hey, Graham, I'm, I'm a more establishment guy. You seem to be resonating, what do you think is going on or do they view

“you again through the prism of, uh, insurgent, this insurgent must be stopped?”

So, as of late past few months, there's been a lot more reach out from like individual people. Kind of, in the, like, like, like, senators, honestly, um, I think there are a lot of senators. Now, great, there are a bunch of senators like Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, Chris Van Hollen, that whole crew who Martin Heinrich and New Mexico, um, who, like, I've been, they, they reached out early on, right, and have been big supporters really the whole time. They felt a, uh, a fellow

progressive who they thought, okay, I understand where this fellow is coming from. So, like, so that's been going on since it'd be getting past couple months, though, there has been more reach out from, I would say, more kind of like establishment folks, um, however, however, and this is the important part, not from, like, not from like the DSCC, not from the DNC, like the, like, nobody in the places of power remains interested, but they're lost, dude. Like, they're, I have,

dude, it's so bad, they're lost. In the thing that bothers me the most isn't like, I'm not,

“I'm not asking for you to, like, be my friend, but you should be curious, because I'm pulling”

40 points ahead, like, like, at least, at least just reach out and be like, hey, uh, what are you

actually? Because we've never, they've never, they've never spoken, the ever, I've never gotten a phone call,

like, no one's ever reached out. I've never talked to anybody in leadership. I've, like, no one's ever been interested in ever, it, which is like kind of baffling. I think it's because they only know two stories. The two stories are this, you're either a moderate Democrat or your, uh, left-wing firebrand. And so what they're saying is, oh, sure, the left-wing firebrand, that does well in the primary, but that'll never travel. You know, there is that idea that, well,

electability and there's something crazy about this, as though you are the equivalent of a, you're the Democratic equivalent of a Magoloyalist who has come out with wildly controversial positions. And then you talk to you for five minutes, you go, oh, no, this is based in historical precedent. It has a very literate and literary foundation to it. It has a foundation of lived experience. Like, they should be, again, viewing this as a Rosetta Stone that can help them

translate. And here's the trick. And maybe this is what we can kind of talk about. And I'm cognizant of your time. And because it's okay of your lived experience, your, your rural internet

“passion. That's the issue, actually. That is the issue. How do you translate that lived experience?”

You talked about it a little bit earlier, you know, being on the planning board and understanding that, oh, sometimes the wording and the intention, you know, had unforeseen consequences and those kinds of things. How do we translate those experiences to create that new deal for a more modern America, where we do get that value, where we do change the incentives of government, the way that that money is spent? How do we make that transition? This is, this is honestly the hardest

question to answer. And, and my, and my answer is going to be insufficient. I'll just tell you that, right? No, no, it's, listen, it's a process. The, the answer to it is that we need to build political power through getting people like me into the U.S. Senate, into the into Congress. And we also need to do it while building organizational power outside of the system.

Like, I, there has never been a moment in American history, where, where we've gotten good things,

just because the institutions or people in power decided to do it, they needed to be pressed. I mean, this is honestly why, this is why this country has killed the labor movement.

like, actually, like push back against the system. We need to, so, like, on this kit, on our campaign,

this is a, above all else, this is an organizing project, because I firmly believe that, well, me getting elected to the U.S. Senate, that's a big part of it, but that needs to be in tandem with a fully organized, broad-based coalition here in the state of mind that can put pressure on, frankly, other members of our delegation, if need be. Because it's not going to be enough to just rely on the systems. But the, the big thing is, is that it's that building that kind of outside power,

that's also how we're going to identify more people like me, and then have the resources to

“get them elected. Because the biggest issue right now is that, I mean, I think you probably saw”

there was an article recently about how, like, majority Democrats, which is this kind of, like,

pack group has been essentially curating with a lot of money. These, these, these candidates to push forward. And they're all, it's all built around this idea that we're doing, like, the pro-corporate pro-business moderate types. Right. We need to build the opposite of that. We need to build the infrastructure. So like for me, the only reason this ever happened is because on day one, people who could shoot a launch video, who could help with small dollar fundraising and who could

get my name at the papers, those three things. Those, those were those were assets that I had access to because some frankly labor unions had pitched in some support for the project to make that happen. We got to find other people from the normal world, like me, and they're all going to, they're going to look different. They're going to sound different. They're going to be from different communities. And that's all what it's supposed to be. But it's a matter of infrastructure,

because if we don't have that infrastructure to give them that early support, then like if I woke up one day and said, I want to be a U.S. Senator, I would have walked out of the boat launch. I would have told that to the guys that I fish next to. We all would have laughed about it over coffee. And then we all would have moved on with their lives. Right. Like it's, it's just would not, there's no way that it would have materialized. And so to turn all of this stuff into reality

“through policy, frankly, we need to build the political power to make it happen. And that's why”

it's, that's why it's a kind of an insufficient question because it's not actually about like or it's an insufficient answer, because what we have to do first before doing any of that is seize political power. And to do that, we're going to have to create the infrastructure to get normal people into places of power, which is hard. When all of the money is like you mentioned, I mean, yesterday, Alex Carpe and the CEO of Blackstone, like that's Palantir and Blackstone

for those following at home. Palantir, Blackstone, unleashed $2 million of negative ads

against me yesterday. Like just had a curiosity, what is Palantir, have against you? Well, I have, I have actively said that I think that companies that steal everyone's data should be broken up and destroyed. So, you know, it's, so they're in the process to steal everyone's data can't, and so they're not fair play through them. But you're talking about building this political movement in the power. And I can tell you, at least for my experience of talking, the thirst is out

there. And you see from these sort of, there is a general undercurrent of energy for something different. I almost think there's a kind of a funny chicken in the egg thing here. In that, you know, to get more people like you and to get more infrastructure, we also need more specific,

“we almost, we need the outline of that new deal. People, I think, need to know what they're”

signing up for. And right now, they don't have a sense that they're signing up for anything different. They might be signing up for different people and, and they might be like, well, that person is pro-choice. So, I'm assuming there's going to be more, but they don't know economically the specifics. So, what do you mean by we all need healthcare? Like, what does that mean? What does it mean that, you know, labor is getting its ass kicked by capital? It's almost like if you could put those

parallel on parallel tracks, one can build the other. But I think you can't build the one without the other. Does that make sense? Oh, what 100%. Like, and this is the, it's a, and that's the struggle. Honestly, I mean, that's the challenge. Especially when we are arrayed against such a vast amount of

Like, we, we need to try. Right. Like, if we don't fight back, I mean, these, these lunatics want us to

own absolutely nothing, turn our lives into subscription models, turn like all of our being into some commodified avatar in data being replaced by, be replaced by robots by robots and autonomous

“intelligence like that. Yeah. No. Like, this is, like, that's what they want. And we can't, we,”

we literally cannot let them win. I mean, if they, if they win, that is a bleak future indeed. And, and we need, and I, but they're not going to. The problem that we are in this very unique moment where the system itself has been built to benefit them, the average person has been sold the story for a long time that power is not for them. Power is for special smart people. Power is for

people who come from the system itself, which is all nonsense. It's a bullshit story. It always

has been, but it's a, so where we are at now is we are in this moment of, we have to change the, the narrative around it. We have to change the way people think about power. We have to talk about the fact that it's universal healthcare isn't nebulous. It's Medicare for all. It's an existing Senate bill. That's right. It's not, it's not magic. It's Senate bill 1506. It's a real thing. We just need the political will to pass it. Right. We need to strengthen labor. We need

to pass things like the proact. And the connection to people to understand why it's not scary and how it would work. Right. And how we could do it. But again, it's that double tract of,

but then people have to be convinced that the government has the credibility to be able to

cases need to be made so that people begin to trust that the money that they're sending in, which is significant for most people, is being utilizing. You know, one of the things I think people, you know, we talk so much about the system of government that we have and the way that it was designed, and it was designed as a compromise with slave-owning states. Let's be honest. That's how

“the electoral college and that's how the Senate is. That's how all that stuff exists. But I think in general”

what people, I think, hopefully begin to understand is there's also this fourth branch of government, which is corporate power. And that government's really the only organization strong enough, large enough to offset some of the corrosive effects of corporate power. And the government has to be able to use that and not be held hostage to it in captive by it. It's my, it's my critique of libertarianism. Yeah. Because you could end it up in that camp. Right. Your, your resume is

libertarian coded, if I may say. And I've got, look, I've got some libertarian, I mean, I live in Eastern Maine. I do want to be left alone. So like, like, like, there are, there are elements of it that I, but I totally understand. Yeah. But, but, like, but my, I mean, I'll be, it's, it's, most just the fact that like, I read a lot of history books. And right. And in my reading of history, large, like consolidated capital, the only really effective way of going after it is with governmental

power. And in, when we don't do it, that's when corporate power of the power of capital captures government. And, and the answer to that, like, the answer to bad government isn't no government. It's good government. Right. And good government is possible. It is. I swear to you, I will die on that hill. Good government is possible. All of, all the northern European countries show us that there are better ways of doing this. And, and you can make different

choices about what you prioritize in your society, where you put your productivity, where you put your capital. I mean, does it go towards making people's lives better or does it go towards somebody hoarding the wealth? I mean, we've, and we've made, we've chosen option B as of late.

“And it's just a bad option. But the only way for us to get that stuff back is to harness the power”

of government. Right. Like, because otherwise, I mean, multinational corporations. Yeah, we'll be more corporations soon to buy the other. Yeah. Yeah. So, Graham, I can't tell you how pleased I am to have been able to have this conversation with you. You have been caricatured in many ways in the national media. And so to be able to spend an hour or so just getting to know you and getting to know your story. You really make, you make a lot more sense to me now. After spending

some time with you about what this is, is all about. I just assumed that you were the some total of your three reddit posts that were kind of odd. But I really do appreciate. And I also

community in in main. This is a it's a sacrifice. I do believe that. I believe in the same way

that you signing up to serve and fight for this country was a sacrifice in a commitment. And I feel like you're continuing that legacy of service and sacrifice in this. It's not easy to face down the forces that are arrayed against you. And I appreciate you, man. I just wanted to say that. And it was really lovely to to get to know you and I wish you the best here. Thanks, John. And I just before we get off, I just want to say I mean, I mean, you were like

you've been an inspiration for a very long time. So it's very good. No, I really really appreciate it. Grand Platner, Maneer, Ocean Sailor, Oyster Farmer, Marine, US Senate Candidate for the great state of Maine. Thanks for spending time with this ground. Thank you, John. Appreciate it.

I'm just going to say this. I didn't feel maybe for the first time in a while that I was

talking to a politician. And I understand, look, he's got to get elected. But that was dare I say an actual conversation. It almost felt more like it was a mix between talking to Heather Cox Richardson and the Gordon's fisherman. I'm going to put those things. Those two things together. The FDR references. He's like, got you. What was so interesting to me is he's built a political campaign on the scaffolding of lived experience and philosophical principle based in historical

precedent. Yeah, I feel it was one of the most refreshing conversations we've had on this podcast. I've also, I've heard him talk elsewhere about just how integral organizing is. And we've

heard that from so many candidates who have gone on to do well. And that is it. You need people

who believe in you to also take up the message and be spreading it. One person can't really do

“everything on their own. No question. And I think he knows that. And he'll admit that. But he's also like,”

this is me. And if you guys like it, great. This is what I'm trying to do. It's what I believe in. I hope you do. And let's do it. And it's just he's not trying to be real. It's just like this is who fuck I am, dude. Right. No, it, it seemed very, you know, it's, it's funny sometimes you wonder like, how the hell is this guy in the position that he's in? And then you talk to him and go, oh, I can see how when you go to different town halls and you talk about your life and the planning board

and your experience and the work. But it's not just about the experiences, it's what those experiences represent to him. Yes. How he's processed them, how he's filtered them. And after you talk to him, it's kind of astonishing that the whole story is like fucked up to have two guys. And you're like,

“oh, I think we, I think we might have missed the main. I think we may have buried the lead on this one.”

Yes, purposely, you know, people are not just the mistakes they make. Right. No, it's a headline. I mean, like, that was a thing. Like, we also have the headlines about him. Right. But like, you actually just listen to conversations he has. And you're like, he gets a sense of who he is. He's ugly. I was curious that he wasn't captured by all because I got to tell you like he would have been a fertile person for the all right to have influenced. Oh, yeah. You know, when he was talking about his

upbringing, I had done some reading on him. And someone who was his former high school classmate did a write up on him. And apparently he ran for student body president and lost, but was nominated for most likely to start a revolution. So I have a feeling he's like, oh, he's been this guy. I didn't know that that was a superlative you could have in your high school. You're like,

“we have like best smile. I won't tell you about him. Ari, I mean, did you have one Brittany?”

You got a superlative? What did you get? So embarrassing. It's most likely to be famous. Really. Here you are. And here you are. I don't tell many people a podcast extraordinary. I didn't did your high school of superlatives learn. Yeah, but I was not a cool kid. I was doing my own thing. Most likely to do our own thing. Yeah. And here I am doing my thing. And here you are doing your own thing. We all end up together. I actually, I was very pleased. I got best sense of humor.

Oh, man. But not class clown. Oh, you classy version of it. I'm just saying wait, do you know who who did do it because in this article, I read she was like, oh, class president wound up being a chiropractor. I loved that detail. Make sense. That makes that makes

it. Only Richard Nixon can go to China. Are we at the point now we're only Jared Kushner could go to

Iran? It really depends on if they're looking to build a series of malls. You know, Jared Kushner, he can go anywhere. Anywhere that there is land that can be developed for either a barns in noble or a maces. Jared Kushner can go. As long as there's also a condominium aspect to it and then a kind of throwing a bone to affordable housing in that there will also be two units. So really, he's available any country that that can be. I can't tell you how many mall developments there

are near where I live, where you're like, oh, what's going up over there? And they're like,

“I believe that Kushner is a building. Oh, my god. So underground bunkers for us. This is a”

bit tangential, but it has been interesting to me how few articles have been mentioning his conflicts of interest when talking about all of these negotiations that he's been a part of. And I get where like to sensitize a bit to it. And I guess that there's so much news, but that is a really big deal. Oh, my god. It's wild. Imagine going into peace talks,

where Saudi Arabia, you have $2 billion from the sovereign wealth fund of that kind. And you're in

there trying to broker a deal between Iran and the United States and pretending that like your investments from the Saudi kingdom have no bearing on any of that. This is just a volunteer gig for me, bullshit. It's not a volunteer gig. It's what they used to call cold calling. Like you're going to a place to establish a relationship so that you can extract wealth and money out of it later. That's the whole motors operandi of that entire fucking family. And I would doubt there is no peace deal

that they make in any country that doesn't involve. They also get a golf course in a hotel.

100% development for the whole thing. Look at us going after the man.

It's fired. Yes, how grand of us. What else they want? How grand of us is it? That's a great little bumper sticker. How grand of us. I'm going to make it. Yeah. John, a few weeks ago on Sean Henry's podcast, he called you and Bill Mar funny and clever. Would you like to return the compliment? No, why would he do that to me? That is so not fair and not nice. Which part of it? All of it. Lumping me in with Mar

“and then saying something nice. Trying to fuck. He's trying to wreck my business. That's what he's”

doing. Trying to ruin your brand. He's playing the long game. That's that martial arts training he's been doing on. Yeah, that's I think I can listen. I could I could do it. Yeah, that's would you like to return the compliment? Yes, he is Bill Mar. Done. Yeah, I don't trust anything that comes out of their mouths that isn't strategic. There's some strategy in there. I can't necessarily figure out what that is. Why was he asked that?

Or would they, oh, I bet it was it a conversation like late night sucks. It's all. Well, he gave you guys a good lob, but then said Colbert, Kimmel, and Fallen, he doesn't understand. There are no funny and should not be on here. How brave of him. Yeah, listen, knowing that he is the arbiter of humor

“in this country that he is the group of. I think most people looked him for, hey, what kind of humor”

do you like because you seem hilarious? Did you mention Gutfield or forgot? That's the only one that does it right? Yeah. He's apparently anybody else who's partisan. That's turning off half the audience. They got to learn how to do it like Greg who's really, you know, equal opportunity, apparently. Yeah, so that's the way that goes. Yeah. All right. Thank you, please do not compliment me again. Next. The last one is a riddle. Oh, come on. Do I need to write this down?

No, sure. Okay. I am so fragile that if you say my name, you break me. What am I? I am so fragile. If you say my name, you break me. What do you break when you talk? Is there something that you, what do you break when you talk? That was pretty close. It is, I, but yeah, I don't know what the name of that would be. I was trying to come up with cover like, I'm so fragile. I was like, Trump. Like, I was just, I was just going to keep going, Trump. Trump. I'm so fragile.

You're really close. Uh, air. What is it that you break when you, when you make a sound?

No, but not quick enough to be qualified as those are, is that one of those things that like

60% of geniuses or, you know, 30% of people who get this right are considered geniuses.

“And that's why you got most likely to be funny. That says the class clown would have gone”

with something very different, bunch of sounds and all that sorts of stuff. Um, guys, once again,

uh, obviously, uh, we look forward to having our partner in arms, uh, Jillian here, uh, next time, but uh, truly enjoyed. How do they, how do they stay in, uh, stay in touch with us? Uh, Twitter,

“we are weekly showpad Instagram threads Tik Tok Blue Sky. We are weekly showpad cast, and you can”

like, subscribe, and comment on our YouTube channel, the weekly show with John Stewart. Fantastic. Guys, thank you so much, uh, fascinating conversations. Today, lead producer Lauren Walker, producer Brittany Mamedovic, producer Jillian, spirit video editor and engineer Rob Vittola,

“who was doing Yolman's work on today's, uh, rather spotty connections that we're going on”

through the, uh, uh, and our audio editor and engineer to call boys doing the same. And executive producers Chris McShane, a Katie Gray. Uh, we will see you guys next week. Boy, the weekly show with John Stewart is a comedy central podcast, is produced by Paramount Audio and Busboy Productions. I'm Teresa and my experience in all entrepreneurs, started a choppy fry erfolgreich

through. I'll be right back when the choppy fry is already on the first day, and the platform

makes me no problem. I have a lot of problems, but the platform is not a step away. I've got the feeling that choppy fry is a platform that can only be optimized, everything is super, simple, integrated and balanced. And the time and the money that I can't be able to invest in there. For all in vacuum.