That would be easy Chicago to American life, am I a class?
So when I was 36 years old, the OS started to American life. My relationship with my parents was not the greatest. I've been working in Piersets, I was 19, and they were not into it at all. Like they were not into public radio, they were not into me working in public radio. They saw public radio as this sad little backwater when they were listening to all things
and sitting in the morning edition, which were shows I was working at.
“I remember they were playing like why are the stories so long?”
They especially did not like that I wasn't making much money, I did not make much money.
They were both people raised in families where there was never any money, and they really
organized their lives to get themselves firmly into the middle class, and they really did not understand why I didn't want to make money. And then also, they've been a period of my early 20s when I was kind of judgey about certain choices that they were making, and I heard their feelings. And by my 30s I tried to make a man's and fix that, but it still wasn't quite right
between us, and really I felt pretty distant from them. They did not hide the fact that they disapproved of pretty much all my life choices, and I didn't feel a lot of patience for that disapproval, and I didn't have a combat of relationship with them. But it's just distant. I would go on month or two all the time without talking to them.
And you know, they would busy people, but I am sure this hurt their feelings. We talked about it later in our lives. And then I started the radio show. I had to hit the single most surprising thing that happened in my life because of the radio show is that it fundamentally changed things between me and my parents.
It healed things in a way I had not suspected could ever happen. What I'm going to do today is I'm going to play you four of those conversations that I had on the air with my parents, and I'm going to talk about that change.
“A lot of the change happened, I think, because I was just including them in this big project I was doing.”
I would have them on the show, and they were part of this project that meant so much to me. They were on the show five times in the first year that we were on the air. Really, it wasn't even the first year. It was just like the first eight months. And we just got into a rhythm of that, and they really liked it. They liked the attention from me. They liked being on the air.
They each, but especially my mom, had a kind of performing hammy side. I'll play you some of these. I think you'll be able to hear that.
And I never asked them about this, but I think they also would have kind of like
public sort of affirmation. It was of them as parents. Like, oh, see where a nice family. Like, see they were good parents. And it really did change things between us. Like, my parents are both dead now. And it's still kind of forced me as this lucky thing in my life that I just stumbled into. And so what I'm going to do today is play some of their appearances on the radio show. Maybe jump in just a little here and there to point out
things that I am noticing. And there's one that I'm going to play at the end. This is a conversation
“with my mom that still, honestly, it makes my skin crawl today. The way I did the day we recorded it.”
This whole episode today, the way this came about is that about a year ago we started doing these bonus episodes that we put out in our podcast feed. And so I'm constantly trying to think of behind the scenes stuff to share with listeners in these bonus episodes. And that led me back to readlisted to these old interviews with my parents. And then a couple weeks ago, I put these for interviews into a bonus episode. And honestly, it came out so nicely that we thought like we should
put this out as an actual regular episode of our show. One that anybody could hear. And so that's
what you're hearing right now. And we're going to start things. This first excerpt is from an episode
that we did called adult children. This is the fourth time I had one of my parents on the radio show. This is May 1996, which means that my mom in this recording is younger than I am right now. She has 60 years old in this recording. And I picked this one to begin because it's one that directly addresses the actual tensions between my parents and their three children. Though as you hear it, addresses them in kind of a way that does not get too deep or heavy. But you can also feel that
there's something real under the surface, I think. Okay, so I'm going to start this with the open of that episode where I tell a story, very brief story that kind of sets up the interview that then will happen with my mom. Here we go. Well, when I picked up the phone, it was my mom. And it had been about a month since we had spoken. And as usual, that was my fault. Anyway, she said that she had been invited to speak with a group of women at the
local Hedasa, you know, the Jewish women's organization. My mom's therapist in the Jewish
Suburbs outside Baltimore.
All of them are women in the, I guess I'm just going to jump in again here in 2026. I am reading this
“in such a heavy way. Like hearing it now is like, I am really trying to milk the drama out of this.”
Anyway, but back to 1996, maybe. All of them are women in the, somewhere, I guess the late 40s
to early 60s. And when the group first started meeting, apparently they discussed all sorts of stuff.
It was wide ranging. But as time progressed, they realized there was only one topic. They all really wanted to talk about. And we went topic. They all needed to talk about. And that was the relationships with their adult children. And at some point that became the only thing the group discussed. It became its official reason for existence. They had such trauma. And they didn't know what to, to make of of what was going on between them and their adult
children. And they invited my mom to lead a discussion on how to get along with your adult children. So um, as her preparation, my mom's a big prepare and she does research and looks at articles and calls experts. Anyway, as part of this preparation, she decided to call her own three adult children. By the time she called me, my mom had already called my older sister Randy. And she asked my sister what advice she would give the group.
Randy's advice was brief and to the point. Tell them to get a different leader. [Music]
adult children. Okay, so then what happens is that um, I explained here's what we're doing on the
show today. It's going to be an episode about adult children and their relationships with their adult parents. And then as then I said to the interview with my mom, I say that I told my mom that I thought that my sister Randy had been maybe a little harsh in the way that she put things. Can I say something? I was just going to say feel free to amend or correct. Yes, I when I when I told your sister what you said, she said, oh, I was just kidding. I didn't mean to be mean.
Oh, so I don't want to hurt it. Be blessing the. All right, but your professional psychologist,
“now don't you think often? Don't you think that there was a note of hostility in what she said?”
Absolutely. Okay, there you see. And you and I can agree. And frankly, she's not on the phone. And um, if my sister Randy is listening to this bonus episode, please just forgive me. I didn't mean to. All right, guys, I did mean to to throw you under the bus. Okay, let's keep going. Sometimes the thing I wanted to ask you about is, okay, so you had this seminar with with all these uh, it wasn't a seminar. It was a discussion group. The discussion group. The discussion group.
And I was uh, the facilitator. And how many women was it? Ram 30. Oh, so wrong. Mm-hmm. Now, if you had to characterize in a phrase, people's uh, relationships with their children when you describe them as being very good, uh, somewhat okay, generally kind of yucky. I mean, how would you describe it? I would say that there were a lot of people who's dreams haven't been realized.
Uh, his expectations haven't been met. And so there's a sense of disappointment, although there were some people there who were pleased with all aspects. And then, of course, the question was, "Why are you here?" To go out was that the answer to go out and show you pictures of grand children? A little bit. A little bit. Okay. Um, we're to connect with the other women, I suppose.
“But these are the criteria for satisfaction. Do you want to hear them?”
Quickly. Um, whether they're children were married? Quickly. I'm so rude to my own mother. Moving along, um, quickly. Um, whether they're children were married? Yes. So that having single children was a disappointment? I'm just going to go to a checklist here. Whether they're children with close by or far away. And I'm shooting zero for two so far. I keep going. All right. Whether their children are appreciated
them. Okay. Whether they had grandchildren, somebody announced that they're, uh, one of their
children was pregnant with the first grand child. Everybody, oh, when they collapsed, you know,
so that's the epitome. Whether their children were successful in their lives, how much they liked their child's spouse and got along with them? You tell me on the phone or something interesting about this? I'm just going to drop. Like, at this point in my life, I was at 36, 37 and I had no spouse and was deeply uninterested in having children. And this was not something that my parents were too pleased about. Either of those things and a point of discussion,
now and then. You tell me on the phone or something interesting about this? Yes. I told you that,
There were several people there who did not like their child's choice of a pa...
at the time that they got married, but had grown to love them very much. And in some cases,
“even like them better than their own child. See, now I wonder if that is because there is an inherent”
tension between children and their adult parents that the child sometimes wants to be treated as the child and sometimes wants to be treated as an independent adult. And for the parent, it's pretty much a hellish guessing game. And then, yeah. Yeah. A lot of people talked about walking on eggshells and how can I, um, uh, several people said, well, how, what's the right way to give
advice? And, of course, the answer is, you don't give advice unless somebody asks you for it.
Do you think that this relationship? Yeah, Mom. I'm going to say for twenty twenty six. That was definitely not, um, the standard practice in our own family. Just somebody asked for advice for advice to be given. And no disrespect in saying that, just a factual statement there. Do you think that this relationship is harder? The relationship between adult children and their
“parents is harder on the parents than on the children? Yes, because the parents have a dream”
of how they thought it was going to be and it felt them matches the dream. That was definitely true of my mom and my dad and me. They definitely, I was not living the dream at all. Anyway, back to the day. Um, you know, one person said that a her children are all single all this far away and she said she, uh, she and her husband are very lonely. And what's happened, you know, the good part is that they've gotten much closer to each other because they realize that they're
all that they have. Right. All right. Well, um, well, Dr. Glass, I'm afraid that this would be about all the time we have for this particular segment of our radio show. Well, I'm glad for any time. I'm looking at it with my children. All right, to say my mom surely glass therapist and Baltimore coming up as such. I had to say I'm I'm so I'm like that she gets the last word. Um, okay, so that is the fourth time I had one of my parents in the show. The reason I have to say that we
have my parents in the air so much in the first year of the show was because it was such reliable material. I had heard Howard Stern talking to his parents on the air, which if you have ever heard that it was some of the most enjoyable stuff he ever did. It was just very like funny and very complicated emotionally. Some of these get genuinely tense between him and his parents. Like the real relations really happened on the air. He was so good at that. And there's just something inherently
“entertaining about hearing some radio host who supposedly is like the king of the show, right?”
Like he's running this show. This adult running the show and their parents just come on and they don't give a crap. You know what I mean? Like they really try to get the last word. And so the staff, we just knew like, oh, what did we fill with this with? Like could you talk to your parents?
And it was just always good material. And so the very first time my mom or dad were on the show
was the very first episode. We hadn't named the show this American life yet at the time the show was called your radio playhouse. And then you'll hear in the first minute or two here I'm cutting in and narrating from the studio, but that's me back in 1995 doing that. That's not me today. If I want to jump in at some point today, I will say explicitly it's today, it's 2026 me talking. Oh, here we go.
Hey, is Barry there? Is Barry there? Yes, he is on another call. Do you wish to hold or I could take message or you can be one on his voicemail? This is, it's his son. Uh-huh. Anyway, so I thought I would call my parents in Baltimore and ask for advice on this our first evening of our brand new radio show, your radio playhouse. Can I leave a message with you or is it better to use his voicemail? It doesn't matter
I'll put it right on his voicemail. Okay, let's do. Okay, hold on, please. This is the story of my childhood right right there. Dad is a little too busy to talk but um, but there's the recording of, you know, Frank Sinatra when when needed. Hello. Hey, mom. Hi, Ira. How are you doing? Fine, can you hold on a second? Sure. This is what it's like with my parents. You can, there's so busy. Come, put on hold.
Baby, what's your hurry? When I come in a little sister she works at Disney
and so there's always, there's like Disney music but they're playing on the whole
System but there's a lot of Disney music and there's a lot of it that people.
Listen, can I record a quick conversation with you about something? Well, you know the
“the new show goes on the air this week and as part of the show we were thinking about”
having me call around to different people and get advice from them and I wanted to know if you would have any advice. Hmm. Well, can I have another question? Sure. It was your target audience. You are such a pro. I'm saying that you're in danger of appealing to a to a narrow range of listeners. If it becomes a little too, I don't know where to use. Artsy. Artsy, yeah. I'm just going to jump in here in 2026 just to say like there's no kind of like oh the new show's
happening. Congratulations nothing. Like our first comment is to like question are you sure you
aren't going to screw this up? You know, are you and Dad still worried about about me making a living in public radio? I mean, I know just for years you were urging me to just get out and get basically any job and TV that I possibly could. You know, but now that you know I've got my own show and are you guys still worried or do you feel like things are going okay? Do you want me to get into television still? Um, now that Hugh Graham is such a big star and everybody who sees you or see
your picture thinks how much you look like Hugh Graham. That sort of fires up that TV thing again in me. All right, I'm stopping the tape. This is me live. That was the tape. Only my mother could possibly believe this. Only only a mother, I could pretty much believe this other adult see me and and the thought that goes through head is not Hugh Graham. The thought that goes through her head is
“tall Jew. I think what gosh would they want this wonderful, you know, um, humanistic and intelligent”
reporter, um, who looks like Hugh Graham. All right, let's move on. The theme for this week is I'm just going to come in here now in 2026. This interruption is happening right now. I have to say something else that that hearing this recording reminds me of and that is that like when I look at pictures of my mom, it's just I just feel a sense of fondness for my mom. But when you hear
somebody's voice, it's so much more powerful. Like it's just like I feel like it's like she's a
live talking to me again. And I'm having all the feelings that I had when she was alive. Like like really like as the tape is playing like beat by beat moment by moment, I feel like I'm experiencing this conversation the same way I did 30 years ago. Like like just yeah, pictures cannot do that. All right, let's move on. The theme for this week is um, a new beginnings and we have several stories people telling about uh, about various ways in which their life began and now at some point.
You know, that's very interesting because I just did an interview this morning with say a newspaper reporter about around me. I'm just gonna stop the tape again. This is my own right. I call my
mom for an interview and it's not even her first interview of the day. Like I was I was like
gonna get you know to get a booking. She's a therapist and sometimes she gets called you know by by the papers and stuff. And romantic love. Sure. And um, people's expectations about relationships
“and one of the things I believe is that there are a lot of people who are good at beginnings but”
they're not good at medals. Which means what? It means that they like the beginning where there's all this idealization, romantic projections and the other person can be who they think they should be rather than who they are and when they get to the middle page. All right, I'm just gonna stop the tape. All right, listen, all of you in the audience right now, let's just agree right now. It's the very beginning of our relation. It's a very beginning of our radio relationship right now. This is our
little first little radio date and I just don't want any idealizing. No, idealizing. This is where there's more of a reality-based relationship. They kind of run away from it because it's not as exciting. You said it because actually as we've approached the first show I've realized that I am much more comfortable with the notion of kind of everyday work a day sort of radio work and you know being on every weekend and you know having pieces on the air.
But the notion of saying like in a really big way, okay, this is the beginning. It's the beginning and we're gonna have like a big beginning and we're gonna make an epic statement. I feel very
Uncomfortable with.
That's good. That's good, this practically all of life is the medal.
“We've gotten so deep here. I never expected that it was gonna there was going to get so deep.”
This is just I'm just very pleased at how deep this has gotten. Now you're sitting there thinking it's he making fun of me? What's happening now? We're right, we're right. No, I'm not. I'm not actually. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. You did nothing to worry about. Are we gonna go to take a visit? Depending on the route side, the Chicago listening area. Depending how you sound, yeah. Okay. Okay. All right, well that's my mom. Surely glass
speaking to us from Baltimore. I don't think she's gonna get a take. I do not think she's gonna get a tape. All right, well next on our next on our little playhouse stay. I'm pretty sure I actually did
send her a time. Anyway, okay, so that is the first episode of our show from November 1995.
So my dad did come on the show also. It wasn't just my mom. And I'm gonna play you some of that.
“Including an old story about his very brief and very doomed career at radio after quick break.”
Stay with us. It's a American life. Today we're doing something different than usual. I'm playing old interviews that I did on the program with my parents, which really did change my relationship with them in a fundamental way. As I said earlier today's program was originally made as a bonus episode of our show. Every two weeks or so we try to put out these bonus episodes for our this American life partners
and they're generally behind the scenes stuff like what you're hearing today. Anyway, so we turn
out to my dad. The big story that I did with my dad is in an episode. Again, this is very early in the show. It's episode 14. It's February 1996. It's like, what is that? Four months after we started on the era. I said this story, I'm just gonna play a straight through. So when you hear me interrupting tape and stuff like that, that's actually happening in the original story. That's on today. We have arrived at Act 2 of our program Baltimore. We'd like to ask you this question, my friend.
The personal problems and worries have you done. Are you disturbed by business problems, marriage problems, or emotional problems? See Mrs. Kay, reader and advisor. Mrs. Kay, formally of Europe, gives you a reading and answers all your questions for just one dollar and you'll feel much better. You'll have a much better picture of where you're headed. After you talk with Mrs. Kay. The telephone number is Saratoga72753. But of course, no appointment is necessary.
I'm just gonna stop this tape right there. I have three things to say about this tape. Number one, formally of Europe. Number two, of course, no appointment is necessary. Charity knows you're coming. And number three, this is my father. In 1956, three years before I was born, he's 23 years old. And coming up right now, a news about a wonderful appliance from Norman I'm a child just for the homemakers as we said before. We're talking about
an electric dryer. And my friend, if the lady in your house has her heart set on an electric dryer, he's in big news for you from Norman I'm a child. Right now, they are featuring the new 1957 frigid air, film dramatic electric dryer at an unbelievable low price. My father started in radio when he was 19. The same age I was when I started. He began at the college station at the University of Maryland and after graduation got a job spinning records
at a commercial station in Baltimore. Then he was drafted and at the time of this particular recording, my father was actually in the army. Stationed Virginia. But he wanted a career in radio so bad way that every Sunday morning at the break of dawn, he would leave his wife and his five-month-old baby, my older sister. And drive up to Baltimore to do a four-hour program. For over 18 years, thousands of folks just like yourselves here in town have relied on
Norman I'm Mitchell appliances, for us in serity, service, and substantial savings.
“Three important musts for a successful business today. My dad's paycheck with this four-hour”
Sunday morning program was $5.88 a month. He must have ever made a radio job with $90 a week. My friend, how would you like to get 21 beautiful greeting cards? Absolutely free. Plus, the tail is on how easy it is to earn $35 to $50 a week selling Liberty Bell greeting cards. Hey, Dan. Yeah. When you were doing radio, what did you like about it? What was the appeal of it for you?
It seemed easy to do.
People know who you are. You know, I was a big man on campus at the University of Maryland.
You're a good announcer. I didn't really know that. I'm listening to the way that you do the necessary. You're relaxed and yet you punch the sort of main points, but you sound completely at ease and you're convincing. You're doing ads for the hokeyest products in the world and you sound
“completely like you believe it. Really? Yeah. What are some of the products I forgot about?”
There's a lot of appliances. And then there's one reader and advisor named Mrs. K. Formally of Europe. Just show them to your relatives, friends, neighbors, and the folks you work with and see how quickly they order. You know, you're actually doing them a favor by saving
their money on Christmas cards and such fine quality cards you've never seen in your life as
liberty del. You know a lot of what it's like to be on the radio. It's just trying to sound relaxed when, you know, you're not. You're doing a show. You're, you know, you're not just talking to people.
“And in some of these tapes, I can actually hear my father struggling to sound relaxed.”
And these recordings give me this picture of him that I have never had in my life, really. He seems so young, you know, and innocent. A guy in his 20s doing this thing that I know so
intimately myself, you know, just sitting in front of a microphone, trying to sound at ease,
trying to sound like this relaxed old pro. Not a care in the world. Yes, now you can have color in that kitchen of yours and done. Really make it a true show place for your family and your friends and make it a lot easier to work into with color. And you can have this color in your kitchen all at the price of white. And, of course, Fridgetaire features the new 1957 Fridgetaire, refrigerators,
ranges, washers, and dryers in four decorator colors, that absolutely no extra cost to you. You have your choice of pink, yellow, green, or charcoal. This is just how long ago this happened. They had not yet invented the idea of renaming the colors of appliances, things like, you know, avocado, lemon, egg shell. Well, let's get on to that feature top tune of tomorrow. A brand new release when we think is going to be real big in the coming weeks and months all across the country and right here in
Baltimore too. This week, it goes to the crook cuts. Listen to their rendation rendition of. Love in a home. Not long after we got out of the army, my dad decided that radio was no way to make a living. And after a series of jobs, he decided to become a certified public accountant. He was a typical workaholic suburban dad, you know, off to the office at seven in the morning,
back at 6.30 for dinner, exhausted after that. He would sit in his yellow recliner in front of the TV and fall asleep. He started his own business, struggled to establish it, worked lots of nights and weekends. During tax season, from January to April 15th, we would barely see him. What's this? Is that a radio, radio, in our house when I was growing up as an old real-to-real tape recorder, a little consumer unit that my mother and my sisters and I would goof around on
from time to time, recorded a singing or telling stories. And while my mom appears on these tapes a lot, my father does not appear on them once. He simply was not there to be recorded. The only time he's mentioned on all of these tapes is this. I'm going to play this moment to you. My mother is cooling to my older sister Randy. He was probably, I don't know, a year old,
“you're in a half-old. Where's Barry's? Barry's my dad. Where's Barry, Randy? Daddy, where's daddy?”
Daddy, go back on, look back back. They go outside, look back back. In the core?
These days, my dad explains his decision to leave radio and become an account...
By that time, I realized that radio was not from me. What happened would be a new program
“director would come in, and if you weren't the apple of that guy's eye, then you were out of a job.”
You got to go start looking for a job again, even though that never happened to me.
I could see it happening to other people. I wanted to be in control of my own destiny. I decided that it wasn't going to work out. And that was not going to work out. And that was 1959? Yeah. The year I was born. Right. Are those two things related? Not at all. It sounds like they are. No, they're nice, no, they're nice.
Well, all the stars were on record and all the record star on the Sunday morning carousel. Coming up for you right now, our featured top two number of a day. Number one in the record stores we visited this week in Baltimore, and judging by your cards and letters here at Win, it ranks very high. But Prince of Wales himself won Johnny Ray with just walking in the rain. Now, the way story like this usually ends is that I reveal that this is why I'm in radio
to make good on my father's legacy, to live the dream that he never got to live.
“But I have to say the fact is, I never knew him as a radio DJ. I did not know that he had”
ever done radio. The entire time I grew up, it was never discussed. The recordings of him doing this stuff were packed away in the basement. Nobody talked about it. I never thought of him as somebody who did anything but certified public accounting. If my mom ever mentioned this, I do not remember it. And I certainly didn't grow up with any special feeling about radio. I could care less about radio. Like most Americans, my medium of choice was television.
I got my first job with National Public Radio in Washington when I was 19 years old. And at that point, I simply wanted a job in the media. If an ad agency, I was a like a freshman in college. If an ad agency had hired me that summer right now, I would probably be doing Bud Light commercials. You know, I could just see the whole thing laying out that way. And in 1978, when I started working at NPR, my parents absolutely did not want me to do it.
They wasn't even like a judgment call. They were completely against it for the next. I want to say 10 years, maybe it was 15 years really. I mean, they simply saw it,
like the most parents were. They saw it as impractical. They worried that I would never make any decent
money. Never be able to support a family. Essentially the reasons that my father quit radio. When I first dug out these tapes of my father about a year ago, I asked my dad, you know, if he ever wished he could still do radio. And he was completely unenthusiastic about the idea. In all my life, I had only seen his desire to be on the radio once. And this was actually a couple years ago. I was filling in as the guest host of Talk of the Nation.
This daily calling show in Pira does at a Washington. I was doing that for half a year. And my father had never seen me host a radio show. And he and my mom drove down to Washington for Baltimore to watch me do the show. And before the show, he asked me if he could read the news.
“And at the first I thought he was joking. And I don't remember exactly what I said,”
I could joke to something back at him. And then later as we got closer to going on the air, he asked again, you know, that he would like to read the news cast. The MPR news cast at the top of the hour at the beginning of the show. And I realized he was serious and I had to explain to him that I didn't have any authority over that. That, you know, the MPR news casters, they wrote their own news and they delivered it to themselves. Then a few months after that, he and I were talking about
what he's going to do after he retired. He still works, still works long, long hours. And he told me he's been thinking about about doing a little bit of radio work again. After he retires, that is if you can find some radio station or, you know, some radio program that could use him in some way. Okay, it's me again in 2026. So not that long after that, just four months after that, I asked my
Dad to co-host the show with me for Father's Day.
This is an episode that we are that we do rerun now. And that's how I'm just going to play you a
“little snippet or two from this. Okay, so dad, so you have the script. I have the script.”
From WBEZ Chicago, it's this American life, the Father's Day edition. Dad, you are such a pearl. I haven't done this in 40 years. It brings back all kinds of memories. Now you better explain to our radio listeners in what context you actually sat in front of a radio microphone, Dad. Well, and then my dad's kind of recaps what you already heard about his
radio career. I'm just going to pick up now a little later. And today for Father's Day, my co-host will be my own father, Barry Glass, certified public accountant. And it's a real kick to do this. Hey, no, this is our little father's day adventure together. You could have bought me a tie. Dad, why don't you read the billboard? Our program today will have four acts. Act 1, Sandra Tsinglow finds out that the world sees her father very differently from the way she sees him.
Act 2, Dad's music. We have a story from writer Sherman Olexie. Act 3, the moment Dad left. Act 4, reconciling with Dad, a story from playwright Boe and Riley.
Hey, I just want to say that we did this at the beginning of all of the episodes in that first
year or two. We would list each act and say what the act would be. And then at some point, like, I don't know how many years in it was. I realize like, oh, we don't have to do that. Like, if we do the beginning of the show, people would just want to hear what's going to happen next. And they kind of don't even care what's coming up. Like, oh, you just want to know, it's like, hey, this is going to be good today. And then like, listening to acts like he just did like,
we, you know, it just feels like it doesn't mean that much, you know. And I mean, I'm not sure a fan of one of those people in particular. But otherwise, like, no, we don't do that very much anymore. I would say my dad really, really liked being on the air. Um, his friends heard him that was like a
“really nice thing. And it was just like acknowledging this part of his life that, um, that honestly,”
I didn't know about when I was growing up. There's a thing that happened with me and my dad and it happened on tape. And for the life of me, I have no idea where this recording is. And I wish I could find it. And that is when we were taping for some episode, we got into a very real conversation and tape just kept growing. And I don't remember how we got on it. But it was just it really was about like, was he a good dad. And he was really asking in a real way. And then I
felt like, I will try to meet him in this moment. And I had been in like therapy for a while. And my dad, like, I will say, like, was a very, like, he well-intentioned dad who really did try to do his best. But his dad left when he was four or five years old. He didn't grow up with a dad. And he just didn't know what it would be to be a dad. He really was inventing it as he went along. And he could be very, he would just get angry at random stuff in ways that I really felt like I just spent my childhood
kind of dodging around and trying to anticipate and trying to like read his moods. And basically,
I said, like, there was just, I explained to him, like, there were the ways that he treated us, that really affected the way that I treat everyone in the world today. And went to, like, maybe a little more depth than I'm doing with you here right now, because you are not my father. And I said, like, it really, like, it was hard. I said, like, I've been there. I'm trying to, like, change the way I am with other people. So I'm not so alert all the time to, like, how they're going
to treat me and just trust people a little more. And it just kind of, like, laid out things in a way.
“And he heard this and he paused. And he said, like, honestly, he said, he said, like, the perfect thing.”
He paused and he said, I'm so sorry. Like, that must have been so tough for you. And that must be so tough for you. And he said, like, what guy, you know, I was doing my best. Like, I didn't know. I didn't have a dad. Like, I didn't know how to do it. Like, I really was trying. And then we
never talked about it again. And we really, like, like, honestly, like, all the drama between
me and my dad from my whole childhood. Like, I know this sounds like a complete exaggeration to say, this is true, but I swear emotionally, for me anyway, it really felt like in one conversation that
Was maybe eight minutes long.
that he heard me. And just said, he was sorry. And, you know, he was trying, which I believe completely. And very much in contrast. And again, my mom is dead. So it feels a little weird to just, like, say things about her here on this show. But like, I don't know, like, why, why talk about this if I'm not going to be real? My mom was much more defensive, even though she was a therapist. If my sisters and I would try to talk to her about, like, you know, you do this thing and you kind of,
like, whatever it was, um, she just could not hear it. She really couldn't. Like, and I do think the part of that is, like, the mom and most families is just doing so much work
“to just like run everything. Whereas my dad was pretty absent and off at work, that I think she was”
much more protective and it was really hard for her to hear that we might have criticism.
But, yeah, like, and, and really up until she died, it, like, that stuff never got resolved.
Whereas with my dad, it got resolved so quickly. I think about that sometimes. So just, like, of the two of them, she was, by far, the more, like, psychologically, where is the therapist? But, like, he just handled that moment with such grace. Let's move on. Coming up, the interview with my mom that it was talking about earlier, which is all that stuff that still makes my skin crawl. When you hear it, you can judge.
If I am overreacting, which I may be, I don't know, you'd be the judge. That's in a minute, Chicago Public Radio, when I program continues.
“Just American Life for my class. Today's show, call your parents. I'm playing interviews that”
I did with my parents back when they were alive, which I find is generally the best time to do interviews with people. I don't know, comment crazy. I'm going to close out the episode with one final story. This is from an episode of our show called Double Lives. It is the 10th episode we have made. This is January 1996. And, um, before I play this for you, I hadn't experienced with this story recently that I really don't think I'll forget. I just got married this year,
and it's a new marriage, and the first time I met my wife's mom about a year and a half ago,
I guess it was. Her mom has dementia and lives in the assisted living. And, when I met her, my wife, Susanna, and I took her mom for a ride somewhere in the car. And, when we were in the car, Susanna had the idea to play her mom, this next story that I'm going to play you, because her mom was a therapist, just like my mom was a therapist. And, and we thought it could be a way that her mom could get a sense of my mom, which we thought her mom would like. And also, I don't know,
like this is like such a corny thing to say, but this is the closest thing we would ever get to the two of them meeting. And so we played this story where you'll hear you do get such a strong sense of my mom's personality. This is a good introduction to my mom. Add Susanna's mom, really liked it. She laughed at the funny parts. She got exactly what the story is about, even if she doesn't remember this at all today. Anyway, it was nice to have a recording that could
do that. And then, of course, this is also the story that really makes me squirm. Anyway, I heads up for parents listening with their kids. This next story acknowledges the existence of sex. Here we go. Our parents can surprise us with what they don't tell us, with what they don't talk about, especially when it comes to sex. Recently, I had this experience. And ex-girlfriend was in the gym, looking through a copy of a Marie Claire magazine,
woman's magazine. And there was an article in it on women's fantasies,
“there's sexual fantasies. What do your man's dirty day dreams reveal about what he wants from you?”
In the article, sex spurts, that was the word they used, sex spurts, reveal the six most common male sex fantasies in areas. So, um, my ex-girlfriend is reading,
and there in the third paragraph, one of the sex spurts turns out to be my mother.
Hello. Hey, mom. Yeah. It's Ira. Yeah. So, I'd like to do a little interview. Okay. Okay. Some, um, can I read to you a quote from an article? Okay. Okay. Here it is. Your man wants a woman who excites him through her own excitement. You could stimulate yourself while he watches or let him participate by moving his hand to where you want it.
Yeah.
You're kidding. What, what is it? All I know is that, um, is that on the heat, was at the gym. And she opens up Marie Claire to an article called Men's Sexual Fantasies, and, um, and it says at the top, uh, here, sex spurts reveal the six most common scenarios,
unlock the secret longings and psyches of the modern, mental fantasies. And, and you basically are
one of the sex spurts. Yeah. Yeah. I am. I didn't really know you were a sex spurts. What did you think I was? Just another Jewish mom and psychologist. Uh-huh. So, it wasn't like you were a sex spurts, and you were keeping it from your family. Um, you taught about my family being my children, not my husband. Yeah. Because he knows that I'm a sex spurts. And you can call him to verify that. I'm just going to pause. Okay. So, I'm not a parent.
Okay. Like, I don't have children of my own. So, maybe I'm not the best judge about whether I would say
“that to my adult child. But I think I might not. I don't know. And you can call him to verify that.”
I think I'm just going to let that go. But my children, all we seem embarrassed is I
discuss anything sexual. So, therefore, I cannot tell around them. When, when would you try to discuss something sexual with us? My, uh, make a joke or, um, say something that had a sexual connotation and I get this, um, disapproval. I don't think that that's true. Yeah. Actually, I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't affect me in any way to think that that you and dad would be sexual with each other. In fact, I even remember as a teenager
understanding that and being kind of reassured by it. Does that make any sense? It makes a little bit of sense, but it really doesn't cover all the situations if it's up. I'm just telling a joke
“or talking about something somebody else. And I think it has to do with boundaries. And I think”
it has to do with that children, even adult children, do not like to regard their parent sexuality. Hmm. Interesting, you're actually convincing me. Well, let's do a little scientific test. Can you think of a sexual joke? You just tell one right now and I'll tell you my reaction. I can't think of it. And you know what I'm feeling right now? I'm feeling, I'm feeling, I'm feeling, I'm feeling good. I don't even know if it's a joke or a story. Is this just like something that might be true?
That when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon and he said one giant step for man and one, what is it? One giant step for mankind or whatever? One small step for man and one giant step for man. Right, one small step for man and one giant step for mankind. And then he also said good luck, Mr. Gorky.
And for years people have been asking him what that meant. And he would never tell them. And then this
year someone brought it up again. What did you mean when you said good luck, Mr. Gorky? And he said, well, I can tell now because Mr. Gorky died this year. When I was a little boy, Mr. Gorky was our next neighbor. And I was playing outside one day and their bedroom window was open. And I heard Mrs. Gorky say, well, facts. You would want me to give you oral facts. You'll get oral facts from me. The day that boy next door walks on the moon.
Well, now I'm examining my own feelings. And I have to say, I did get very nervous there. In a way that does not correspond perhaps with shrugging my shoulders at the notion of of you having some sexual life and sexual thoughts. Yeah. Okay, I'm just going to jump in here alive from the year 2026 to say, like, I'm just been spending like the last minute. I feel like I can feel my
“blood racing. Like I just feel like my temperature is risen. And I just feel like, what is what is happening?”
Is that wrong? Are you on my side? Can I just say also, like, she's getting this reaction out of
Me today in 2026.
I mean, I guess that's what it means to have parents. Yeah. So, let me read you some of your other quotes here. All right. In the fantasy of man dominates woman, you're quoted as saying, says Dr. Glass, quote, in a caring relationship, it's certainly not abusive or unhealthy if the fantasy is played out in a light teasing way. You're also quoted extensively in fantasy number five,
“spontaneous and countered with a beautiful stranger. The key quote is this one as far as I'm concerned.”
Go to a restaurant and at first pretend you don't know each other, suggest Dr. Glass,
which whenever that it actually explained some dinners have had with you a dad. I thought, well, you know, you didn't talk very much between the two of you. No, no, that was just the opposite. So, so if you actually have you have you have you done this? Have you gone to a restaurant with that and pretended that you didn't know each other? No. No. No. But if you did, you're saying that we're on the restaurant with you and pretended we didn't know you. What do you mean by that? Well,
when you were younger and and and and just what they that you're a matter of dressing didn't
“didn't exactly conform to. All right. All right. All right. I think everybody, yeah. The other people in the”
restaurant. Back when Daddy, Daddy would look at you and he would start popping joyous so we go out to eat and I say now, Barry, people are looking at him. I'm going to look at us and they're going to say that we've not picked out as close. So now that I know that you're the big sex expert, do you have any sex advice for me? I'll just say in 2026, daring question. So now that I know that you're the big sex expert, do you have any sex advice for me?
Find a nice girl and get married. That's not sex advice.
We always end up this way, don't we? With that particular advice. Yeah, that's not you, I know.
I know. I could ask you any question and that would be the advice. Well, that was the first rule of Gerald with a new taught name. Is what? No matter what they ask you, be sure to get your point in. When you were first being interviewed by people, this is what I told you say. When I'm going, I'm going to, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going, we got to that then. My mom, Dr. Shirley Glass, in Baltimore.
I'll just say like, here on nicely, we're getting long. Like, we actually, like, that's a really
sweet conversation to have with your mom. And before these, these appearances on the radio, on the
radio show, I just don't think that would have happened. Like, there's just something so like, we were so in a nice, friendly groove, even though we are kind of like making little points with each other, it's just like a very lovely thing. And it continued that way more or less until she died. And when we would see each other in real life, like not just on the radio, we were more open with each other. It was just easier. They stopped telling me I was wasting my life in radio.
And I think, like, if I imagine it from their point of view, I think that after we did these things on the radio, they knew when we see each other in real life that I was not going to say them down and question their choices, question them. Doing these stories on the radio, it's like we practiced getting along together nicely in public. I think that public act helped them get it into their heads that I really did accept them and that the period of my life where I questioned them so much
“in my 20s was really long over. So that's how the radio show changed my life or definitely”
wanted the biggest ways. Hold my hand. In other words, baby kiss me. I think my dad will go like that. We got that song. If you liked this episode of our program, like I said earlier, this was originally made as a
Bonus episode for our life partners that we've done over 20 of these.
the kind of like behind the scenes sort of stuff. Life partners also get ad free listening. They get the special greatest hits archive of the show that appears in the podcast feed. So when they want a good episode, they can just scroll through the podcast feed and look, oh there's a great
“hit. If you sign up yourself, you get all that and most important. It helps us fund everything we're”
doing. At this point, life partners pay for a fourth of our budget. They are essential to us being
able to spend the kind of time we do on all of the stories we bring you. If you're a regular listener, you perhaps can tell how long some of the stories must take to make. To sign up, go do this American life dot org slash life partners, where you can sign up right in the Apple podcast app.
“Okay. So the people who help put together today's program include Michael Combatace,”
Seth Glenn, Molly Marcello, Katherine Ray Mondo, Stone Nelson, Ruthie Petito, Anthony Roman, Ryan Brumnery, where we serve in France as Swanson, Christopher Surtala, Nancy Updague, Julie Whittaker, and Diane Wu, a managing editor, Sarah Abdurrahman, our senior editors, David Kessneybaum,
a executive editor, is a manual Barry. So first of all, thanks to you to my sister Randy Murray
and San Francisco, the one other living person who gets today's program, the way that I do, thanks also to Mr. Gorky, who does not exist and who Neil Armstrong did not mention on the moon. Apparently, my mom got the joke from the night show. Another breaking news, a priest, a rabbi, eight off Hitler and a kangaroo, did not walk into a bar together.
“This American life is a little bit of public radio stations by PRX, the public radio exchange.”
Thanks as always to a program's co-founder, he's a Troy Malatia, you know, he's starting
to do ice cream shop. He is amazing, a making ice cream, but just terrible at naming flavors. You have your choice of pink, yellow, green, or charcoal. I'm here at Glass. Back next week with more stories of this American life. Next week on the podcast of this American life, I'm guessing comes back to our show with a true crime story that happened in their own family.
She wrote, "I beg you, please, to help me get my son back, or to at least speak to him. Please do not tell them I have written to you. If you're unable to help me, then just ignore my message." That's story by the way, comes from cereal. The people who literally invented the true crime podcast, that's next week on the podcast, or no local public radio station.
