Ep 1283 | The Robertsons Expose the Dark Side of Success That Few People Talk About

Welcome back to Unashamed. We often say this, but we obviously recorded a couple episodes when we get together. So we just finished the last episode. And we all have to take a little nature call. Bryce Jace went into that quite vividly on the last podcast of what happens when you're in the middle of a field. But there was a girl standing down there Jace. There's a lot of young girls that work on this. They work for Sadie, but I don't know. Maddy did you know that person standing at the microadden?

So she's standing there and she's just looking. She's got some food in the microwave, and she's just standing there just, you know, looking at it. And so I walked by her and she didn't even look up. And so I said, "You know that a watch microwave will not produce hot food." Hey, watch. Oh, watch. Oh, watch. Watch. And it's a play off the old saying. I watch pot and every bowels.

“Remember that when you stand there and watch a pot and every bowels? This is the first time I've heard of this.”

So I said, "Have you ever heard of that?" I said, "Well, the original saying is a watch pot and every bowels," and she said, "No, I've never heard of that."

And I said, "But you're standing there looking at the microadden. She said, "It's mesmerizing." Oh, and I said, "Yeah, I guess you're right." I said, "You know, you're watching it." And it's literally heating your food from the inside out. I said, "How does that work?" She said, "I don't know, but I can't look away." So that I just left it at that. And then when I left, she never said it was spiritual applications there. We have the Holy Spirit inside out, right? Does you look at, you know, the microadden, of course, I never liked to stand in front of one, because that thing's like radiation, isn't it?

It's so funny that I was having this conversation with this yesterday. The things I've been sharing. Because every time I told her the story about running across the field yesterday, you know what her response was? They'll tell that on the bucket, "Guess, do not tell that on the bucket." Does this sound familiar about the last thing you tell somebody is, don't say that? Oh, I know where you got it from. We got all the plane.

“Remember that? It's a PR. A couple of podcasts ago when I told about the woman who had an odor problem.”

I was not making fun of the woman at all. I was just saying it was kind of weird that I think she was writing in first class. So it's you're thinking it's not that she doesn't have the money to buy the odor. She's just chosen not to wear it to the suffering of all others. And we get off that plane, and I'm like, "Whoa, I'm glad that's over." She said, "Do not share that on the podcast." What did she do the very next day? I didn't need to. You brought it up as a sign. But what I was going to say is, "Yes, sure, I'm having a conversation."

Well, you realized by telling me the first thing I'm going to do is I asked her about these stories. She won't know. Look, don't do it at all. That's going to be fair. I'm telling you, "I'm like, "You, once you tell my I can't do it," that I'm like, "I got to do it." I got to hear what she said. I went and visited Mom, and so I walked in the door, and I figured she's sitting there watching TV. What else she's going to be doing? Nope, she went there. And she saw me and she's like, "Oh, you're just the guy I was looking for. Come watch these birds."

And I'm like, "What?" She lives that back when did her house. Yeah, and she says there. And they have put all these feeders out there. And look, out. There were over 100 birds. I've seen it. It's a happening.

I've never seen such a diverse group of birds in one setting as she ends with her. And I said, "Do you realize there are six dogs there?"

And she said, "If you shoot one of those dogs, I'm going to be angry." She knew where I was going. I was like, "Oh, it looks like supper." She's like, "No." Once they enter the bird feeding realm, they're safe because I want to watch them. But she said the same thing. I was like, "What? Do you do this all day?" And she said, "It's mesmerized."

She actually mispronounced mesmerize, but that's a tough way. That's a tough way. Yeah. Yeah, she said it's memorizing.

“And I said, "I think that's mesmerized." And she's like, same thing.”

I guess when you're mesmerized, you could memorize. It's funny just that you brought this up because I meant to tell you that I have been enjoying the fruits of your last two or three weeks of duck season. When it was salvaged by the rally of the ice apocalypse that didn't brought you guys to kill a lot of ducks.

Yeah. All these full limits because J. Stone did something he's never done before. He took a lot of those ducks and turned them into ducks.

Oh, I look. And he's some of the finest thing I have ever eaten.

You do get a tungsten there when it's about, you know?

“Well, but look, I told him you can use my middle to take my pin pointer.”

Yeah. There's a device that's used in treasure hunting. And I'm like, "Why wouldn't that work?" Now you'd have to clean it up because you usually use it in a dirt. You're going to be getting dirt all over your sausage. But I'm like, "When that, can you take the sausage before you prepare and just run that pin pointer over?" Now you, you couldn't do it like if they're in a pan, obviously.

I'm stating the obvious because it's like, "Oh, they're shot all in these sausage." But it'd be a great duck down to see episode. So if we were still doing that. To double that, that's right. To take the treasure hunting apparatus and apply it to your duck sausage. But look, he does it with the mix of, it had some onion in it and bell pepper. And then two different kinds of cheeses.

But I would think there's some jalapenos in it. And a little bit of jalapenos in, has a little bit of heat to it, but man, it is good. In fact, I think I like it more of the deer sauces, which I didn't think was possible. Well, I don't like doing that with deer, but they're doing it because they're shooting deer that are so big and these big old bucks.

And then they're aged in it.

And that's the way you can eat it. Well, and ducks are not, and what I was going to declare is they're not very good to eat as far as when you, you know, you have a filet mignon. Yeah. Well, you know, ducks have a mustiness. My dad used to say, "There's a mustiness in there." He likes the mustiness, but me not so much.

“So I thought, "I think you should try this sausage."”

Well, it was a brilliant plan because it is delicious and fits my PhD diet. I hadn't even tried it yet. Oh, sorry. But the flavors fantastic. Even Anna, who's, you know, kind of like most of our women, when it comes to wild game, I mean, they're kind of like, they're not crazy about it.

But she was like, "That, this is better than the deer sausage." I was like, "Really?" And when she gave it the endorsement, I was like, "Okay, it's got a peculiarity there." Yeah. You've got to try that next time you come down.

And I guess you protect, I probably ate some of the ducks that you killed as well. I know we shot one mallard drink. That's all I needed to see, right? I moved you substantially higher on the list after seeing that.

He said, "He looked like I'd never been ducked."

And he said, "This is what he says after I killed the ducks." First of the came in, but I will add, he says, "Well, I'll be. Zack dash or shot that duck. Today you have become a man." How did he use that?

48? That's about 48. I don't think that. It takes a bit. It takes a bit.

You are right.

“My son is looking at me like, "You got to let him talk to you like that?"”

And I'm like, "This is every day." That's the exercise. Did you tell Bear? Welcome to the unashamed podcast. Oh, Bear and Jason hit it off.

I mean, I mean, he's like, "Oh, I love Jason." He really spoke in. What does that tell you? Out of the mouth of bass. Just don't happen.

I'm like that. I learned a lot. I mean, look, I'm running around chasing a four-year-old. We all had in this morning. I learned a lot from this kid.

If I had to do over, if you've ever been like that, you're like, "Man." I get to do what it's just like you're doing. Your grandkids are such a different thing. Last night, a sage had a project. She goes to a Christian school here.

She had a project. I can't remember what the set-up. I do your own podcast is what they're trying to get them to do. They're like a five-minute podcast. And she decided to do one own dad

becoming a Christian and how he's got on a podcast. And so that was her podcast. So Lisa films it on the iPhone and say, "Just ask me the questions." And so I'm the guest on her podcast.

It was really interesting because it's kind of how the young people, they see the internet without especially with all these stupid little videos. But they say it's an opportunity to get to express them. So I was glad it was being done in a spiritual format. And so she asked me about dad.

And I talked a little bit about it. I would answer questions and how to get on the podcast. I said, "Well, he said he wanted to get out there and computer land." This is the way he viewed it.

He said because he knew that their possible had access to the internet. He'd be preaching the gospel. So I went through the whole thing with it. But then she went back in the closet.

It's funny. So she does the thing there. But she goes back in the closet on her own with the camera and films her own little intro of the podcast. You see all the clothes back behind her.

And so it was her cold open. It was back in the closet. And she comes out and then she puts it all together on the thing,

which is amazing because like, you know,

Maddie and all the people here swiss arm and knife. And the other ones, they do all the stuff like that. I couldn't, I don't even know how to.

“Could you do any of the, what's done to put us on the internet?”

Would you know anything about that? Oh, yeah, I'd call some money. [laughter] Is that what you're bad? That's actually getting it done.

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Miss Yana, I've had a few pretty heated discussions over this. Because I'll say she'll ask me to do something while I'll call somebody. And she's like well I could have done that. I was like, but you didn't. Yes, me.

Because I'm all somebody. That I handled it. That is handling it. You do delegate. But I was telling about little my end.

Yeah, I'm in a strange situation because I'm kind of like a grandparent role. And so, you know, in my kids and I've learned a lot. I don't know why that's saying this about a son. You know, it just, it's made me think about this. Because it's a weird role in that.

I mean, I didn't get birth to this kid. I mean, it's kind of weird circumstance where I find myself.

And so, I'm like, well, I'm never going to like do what I did with my kids.

Like whip his butt or anything like that. Well, it's very hard to do it. But long to you. But in a way, Jason's almost like from the last podcast in my mind. He's almost like a Moses delivered to you.

Well, you guys, he's been a part of yours. So what I found very difficult is to train up a kid like in our limited role. Without that being a weapon. So it's like, well, it takes a lot of time.

Or maybe a tool is a better way. Yeah, well, and I was against that as a being a kid. Because remember, we got, we got whip by. There we go. Grandparents, aunts, uncles.

And I was like, everybody within reach of a belt or whatever. And I was like, they just did, they wanted to fast forward the time because it takes a way more time, even this morning. I'm like, we took it. I took him the little playground.

He was, but he was making a mess. He had a water bottle and he drank it and just threw it on the ground. You know, I'm just watching this. And I'm like, you know, we don't do this because I was on Willy's property as a little kid playground.

“And so when it got time to go, I was like, you need to pick up all that stuff”

that you've thrown in every direction. We got to leave it like we had it. I'm teaching him honor and respect. And well, he was looking at me and I thought, oh, you're going to do it. I was like, we'll sit here as long as it takes.

I was like, but you need to trust me. This is the right way to do things. You know, and so I just thought, I went 1,000, 1,000, 1,000, 1,000, 2,000, 3, and he's here. You went, you know, and I thought, okay.

So I think it made me think of what we've been studying. This power when kids are wanting you to be pleased with them.

Oh, yeah. And you've been disappointed. And it just, it's way more time consuming to let that play out, which I didn't have the time with my kids. I'm not making excuses.

Right. If I could go back, I would have done a lot of things different. Well, that's the pressure of it. I mean, we're all still busy and working, but it's something about when you're younger doing that with your kids. You're so focused on trying to build something that a structure that they can be safe in

and that can be provided for, that you do miss those patient moments, sometimes a building something, which is interesting that the whole picture that you read from Exodus 32, to me as that moment God has with Moses.

“He goes through that, I think he went through that whole process to teach him something.”

But think about the patience that takes to do that. You know, and I told you, when we into the podcast, I didn't mention the podcast, but recently, at least in a, we kind of had different ways of doing something. And I knew I was right, but I wanted her to think, it was right because she got there on her own, not just because I said,

this is what we got to do.

And so I was just patient. I let a couple of months went by and finally one day she wakes up

and she totally agreed with my side, but she got there on her own. And even though we're husband or wife or equal at the same time, I knew she would own our decision better if she got there on her own. And so I think that's exactly what the picture is of that. That's what we do with now.

You can do that more with your grandkids, it's just like you're willing to take that time to get there. Yeah, it made me think of this passage, I know we're not here yet, but in 1st John 3 where it says 3, 18, their children, children, let us not love with words or tongue, but with actions and in truth.

Yeah. And, you know, me, my first trip around parenthood was a lot of, I tell you what, you know, just that.

“Because I, you know how we were raised and you tend to just be victims of what you were raised.”

Exactly. I mean, my dad would put the fear of the Lord in you and then he would back it up with the, with the Lord. We were not only, we were not only afraid of disappointing him. We were more afraid of angering him.

Oh, and he didn't get angry at that out of order yet. It was a habit. Yeah. And even reading that in Exodus that we did last time and looking at what the definition of love, love's not easily angered. Yeah.

And, uh, fucking go back, you know, I wouldn't have been able to say that to my dad. Yeah. But boy, I was thinking. [laughs] Which is why, if Dad went through the same memories as we did and to get to watch him later in life.

Yeah. Uh, become that patient person and uh, I probably saw it the most. I mean, he was like that would jump. But he was the most like that probably with Phyllis because she was kind of the last entry point into his life.

It just watching him the way he did him. It made me respect him even more that he grew to that. So, look, this is a process.

I mean, we're dealing with some difficult things in first John about this connection

in relationship. And it is a, it is a process. We, we've said this on the beginning, but I want to say it again here because this past is we're going to get into today that I think the metamorphosis of John, the disciple, the young guy, the, you know, he wouldn't even refer to him.

So, I mean, he's like third person reference when he wrote the book of John. Like he's the young guy. He was obviously the youngest of all of them. To now elder John, who's an older man, who's lived through a bunch of stuff and watched the first entry church.

He watched the destruction of Jerusalem. And now to see him write this letter as an elder and an older man.

“I think that's why he keeps doing this circular logic to keep coming back to because he's”

trying to teach them. That's why he keeps saying, dear children, dear children or fathers, young son. He, he's, he's a, he's a teacher here. Where is early, he was just a witness. You know, he's still got the witness, you know, at the beginning.

But I just, I like his style. You can tell. You can tell straight my older man. Yeah. So, let me read this past, this past is kind of where we're two and three and eleven because we've

been doing a lot of rabbit holes, but they all set up this, this part. And even though we're not going versed by verse, if you have that notice. Because he, he's saying the same thing. We're trying to talk about this like he wrote it, which is a circular way of coming back to the same thing over and over and over.

Yeah. So, he says, this is the message you heard from the beginning. And that was that sound like this. No, that's bad. A verse eleven.

Yeah, verse eleven. This is the message you heard from the beginning.

When now he's going to, he's resetting right back to where he started in the first four

verses. Maybe he said, this is what you've heard from the beginning. Yeah. He started out. So, now he's going to refer back to that.

And now he's going to bring in, we should love one another.

Now it's the, this is how we should act.

And the light aspect.

“And what it means to be living just with God being real.”

And because he just had a whole section about sin that we talked about the sin as long as it's all that. So, he's going to come right back to love. This is the fruit of it. And then you know it's the beginning.

Because he said, what is the beginning? He's going all the way back because his illustration he uses is cane. Yeah. So, we're talking garden. We're, we're literally talking the beginning.

Do not be like cane. The brother of Abel who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. So, John gives some insight because, you know, when you go back and read the text and Genesis, it doesn't seem quite that stark. You know, it's almost like it was just a situation where they had, they just agreed

on who had the best sacrifice. But John says, no, the evil one was prompting him. And he says, and why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil. And his brothers were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you.

We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murder. That's quite the statement. Which sounds a lot like some of Jesus's sermon on the Mountstead.

And you know that no murder has eternal life in him. Let's just stop there and talk about that for just a minute. Because I wanted to reference this stuff about cane and Abel, which is very interesting. Because you see, Abel's name comes up in some other context, which I find interesting. One is Matthew 23.

“When Jesus, you remember Matthew 23 is the one where he's ripping the Pharisees.”

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That's p-o-n-c-h-o outdoors dot com slash unashamed for $10 off and free shipping. And when they ask you how you heard about it, let them know unashamed saying, yeah. He says something interesting in there about about Abel and I want to mention this. Matthew 2333. He says, you snakes, you brood of vipers.

How will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore, I'm sending you profits and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify. So he's given the picture of the history of how they've treated the profits and the people got sent to the people.

Others you will flag in your synagogue and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on the earth from the blood of righteous Abel. So he goes all of that to Abel to the blood of Zacharae, son of Berkhaa, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

I'll tell you the truth. All this will come upon this generation. And when we studied Matthew, we talked about that being. We think the destruction of Jerusalem and the judgment that came as a result of that. But the Hebrew writer also mentions the blood of Abel and Hebrews 114, when he mentions him.

And then also in Hebrews 12, 24, when he's given that picture of the kingdom of God.

He says to Jesus the media of a new covenant 1224.

And to the sprinkle blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. So I do find it interesting that John brings out this cane side of the equation. But then other people talked about the Abel side, which was blood that was shed in assembly. And it was shed in, innocently. And when you read the story on Genesis 4 and verse 10, it says the Lord said,

"This is after the act was committed." He said, "What have you done? Listen, your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground." Which is why I think John, when he gets to chapter 5, he's going to use these life sources as an illustration. He uses blood, water, and the spirit.

And all these things represent life. The spirit gives life. Whether there's no water, there's no life. And blood is like the life source of humans. And so I do find it interesting that he makes the comparison here of those two.

And it also shows you something else we talked about briefly in the last podcast.

“Two things I think. One is there's a heart behind a sacrifice or an action. And that's what God's interested in.”

I mean, Abel, what made him righteous was the nut he was perfect. He was the man, just like Cain was, and now they're the result of their own parents seeing and what that's unleashed on the world. But his heart was right. His heart, his sacrifice to God was the right heart. That's what God was looking for.

Cain's was not. And the second thing is, I think it shows you the power of jealousy. And in the, I think there's two of the greatest motivators for Cain. I mean, the evil one, and I think the reason why it's so rampant, because you know, Jesus said he was a murder himself on the beginning,

is because when you have jealousy and envy of other people, maybe it's within your family, maybe it's other people's possessions. Whatever the case is, if you struggle with that particular sin,

it will always lead to something bad.

It either leads to anger as in the case of Cain, where you get so angry with somebody that you can murder somebody.

“I mean, literally take them out, or what I see more often is better,”

the bitter envy that the Bible tells about quite a bit, that you get where you just can't accept anything good, because that God doesn't deserve that or whatever. And you root for their failure. Yes. You actually root for the people that you once loved.

You actually root for their failure. And in this case it was, and they were brothers. I mean, thinking about that, they were two brothers that I'm sure they're a relationship, but they probably played games together as kids,

and they grew up together. But Abel offers this wonderful, beautiful sacrifice to the Lord, and it grew that bitter root in his heart. And it's so interesting that if you think about, like when he killed Abel,

and Abel's blood spills to the ground, and then there's Jason mentioned that blood cried out, a particular action that it wanted to happen, and the action was just as, like, avenge me. That was the cry of Abel's blood.

So when you get to the Hebrew text, you actually see something completely different. It was as the blood of Jesus cried. Yes, it's a, what was the phrase again? It's a better, it speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

So the blood of Abel cries out just as avenge me, the blood of Christ cries out mercy, forgive them. Yeah. I mean, think about the context of that of what he's saying there in Hebrews, and so you actually see that loop play out as we are redeemed by Christ,

and then we allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify us. We can actually be released from all of those jellacies, and all of those people who died, we release from all of those jellacies, and all of those things that would set us up against the people that got created

as to the love, our brother and our sister, right?

“And so what I think is probably one of the most hidden sins in all of humanity”

is that sin of a jealousy, because it's not something that you just admit, right? And to admit, people say, "Man, I struggle with porn." And everybody's kind of like, "Okay, yeah, I get it. It's a problem nowadays. Man, I struggle with lust."

I'm really struggling with working all the time, and I just want security, and I'm not relying on God. Man, I really talk bad about you, I'm sorry.

But for some, I've never heard someone say,

"I'm really struggling with jealousy." I don't hate you. You don't. And yet it's so destructive. And also, generations, you go back and you read from Cane forward,

It's really interesting, because when you look at Cane's lineage,

“and you watch and see some of the things that are said about his,”

the next generation, the one after him, laymaker, and others, it's all bad. Yeah.

I mean, the first time you see somebody with two wives,

it's out of Cane's lineage. The first time the guy says, "If Cane is a binge, one time I'll be a binge, seven, I'm gonna kill seven times as many as he did." And it led to this place, this precipice, that was so bad that God said in Genesis 6,

"I wish I had any made of." Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the progression. Well, because it gets to be every man from self, when you give into the sin of jealousy,

what ends up happening is you start to be the world to a skeptical lens. And everybody is a threat. Everybody's out to get you. And you can't actually collaborate.

You can't actually, but you read the cultural mandate, Genesis 128, and God's intention for humanity is not that we would actually be jealous of one another and compete over the resources. It's actually that we would collaborate

and expand the resources. Yeah. It's the cult of the Earth. And so, I've struggled with jealousy. I've struggled with secretly wanting someone's failure,

not even because of anything wrong. Maybe quite the opposite, because they did it right. And I felt like man.

“So many of these have put them in their place, right?”

Yeah, I'm lacking. And so, we've kind of made it a practice in our family, because I think we identified this about seven years in the marriage that jealousy was just a killer of intimacy. It was a killer of cultivation.

Yeah. It was a killer of any type of life. And so, we started to can be in joke where we do repeatedly confess that when we fell that toward somebody. And it was embarrassing at first.

But when you speak that out, and you don't have to like tell it to everybody. When you speak that out in confession, James says that you'll be healed. And we found progressive healing from that.

And I can tell you everything that I've been able to be a part of, creating that was great in the world.

It was always in collaboration and partnership with other people.

Everything. And it's usually not out of failure. It's kind of the case that can enable jealousy. Usually comes out of success. In other words, people are jealous of other people's success.

I can't tell you how many families who the years have been a pastor for many years were just destroyed because of this concept. Someone had success on a family. Some sibling had this robbery in jealousy and just wedged in between them, between parents.

And it's so destructive. And it just breaks your heart. And then you see it like it was with paying past own generation to generation, which is a separate.

“Well, I think jealousy is just the offspring of pride.”

And because pride is the problem. And it made me think of that before James said, "Confess your sins one another so you'll be healed." He said, "We read this often." But in James 313, he says, "Who is wise and understanding

among you letting shot by his good life? By deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom?" But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your heart, they're not boast about it or deny the truth. Such wisdom does not come down from heaven,

but it's earthly, unsperitual of the devil. And then here's the, I mean, just lightning bolt statement. But where you have envy and selfish ambition? You know, we're jealousy envy. There you find disorder and every evil practice.

Wow. Yeah, that says it beautifully. So James, tell me, what's the most favorite thing you like about your little poochies? Your little dogs. I have one who has really good manners and terrible instincts

within the other has terrible manners. But good instincts? So they pair well together. Yeah. Two out of my three dogs have good manners, one not so much.

But they all are instinctive when it comes time for rough greens because they get super excited when it's time to eat. And they know rough greens is part of it. They get a little older and a little slower your dogs do. They get a little pickier.

Sometimes the stomachs don't always behave.

And the reason why our good friend Dr. Dennis Black, who created rough greens, shows us that part of the problem is with traditional dog food. It's missing probiotics, it's missing enzymes, omega oils, and all the live vitamins and minerals that your dog needs

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You just cover the shipping. Go to rough greens.com and use the discount code on a shame. Rough greens, we make any dog food better. You know what it made me think of is that that verse in Robert 6, 16 through 19 that says there's seven things that the Lord hates.

Says there's six things that are detestable. Seven that the Lord hates. And when you read these things. Haudy eyes are pride. A lying tongue.

Hands that shed innocent blood. I mean, I just think about the abortion epidemic. How much is that blood, Kana? And now it's exponentially more. Even with what's happened in our culture.

Because now the evil and keeps creating ways to do it. Now it's the abortion pill. Which is now done unchecked across. Let me just people can get delivered right here. Four, a heart that devises wicked schemes.

Five feet that are swift in running to evil. Six, a false witness. Seven sewing discord among brothers.

“And I thought, what are all those things having common?”

Yeah. They all affect other people. Yep. Me in that. Isn't that something?

It is. You would think, oh, the seven things the Lord hates. It's all relational. That's right. How do you treat someone else?

How you view them. And I'm telling you, I know that because we have a big audience. That some of you are sitting out there. And you know this is a struggle for you. And I'm just telling you that if you don't, if you don't do what Zack was just describing a minute ago,

which James would say later in James 5, you confess your sin for healing. That's how you get there. It's the first admit I got a problem with this. And heal those damaged relationships. It's not worth it.

It's not worth going through life. Not having this relationship. I mean, the John is very clear about the nature of this thing. When he talks about, when you,

and you don't always murder a person by killing them,

a lot of times you murder them by cutting them out of your life. It's the same thing. And so, and then they look, he comes back with his answer.

“Listen, if we're 16, because you said, well, how do we know how do we know what this love looks like?”

Well, he's going to tell you. This is how we know versus 16. What love is? And here it is. Here's what we do.

Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. And then he has a very interesting sort of example, what that might look like. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need, but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?

Which is an odd thing that he just stuck in there. Unless you realize that submission and caring about other people leads you to be one who serves and gives. I mean, it just becomes a natural person.

You've found it always powerful when a Bible writer asked a question

to go ahead and answer it. Yeah. It can't. That's right. It's like a rhetorical question.

No, I know, but we don't ever want to answer that question. If anyone has material possessions, he's his brother in need, but has no pity on him. How can the love of God be in him? And then we just keep reading.

No, I can't. Well, that becomes convicting. Yeah.

“Because you're like, what am I claiming versus what am I doing?”

How is this real? That's right. And I keep getting back to that. The more I read for John, the more God seems real. He's not messing around here.

It's like, if you go to an assembly once a week and then go out that door and live the exact opposite of his nature, it's not there. It's just not there. Oh, you're just going through the motion.

There needs to be a conviction with the way you live your life. And again, it's a great point to us because that goes back to that idea. Remember, this started. We can't enable over the sacrifice to God. So if you're looking at your spiritual walk or Christ as just the things I do

to check a box or a list or whatever, you know, and you never surrender.

Because he shows a picture of surrender laid down his life. That's a surrender. But if you can go through the motions of all the sacrifices, but remember David said, it's not sacrifices you seek. It's the heart behind the sacrifice that he's seeking.

So you can have all the blood, the bulls, and goats, and everything these guys are going through without the heart behind it. And you're just going through the motions. And I think you describe a lot of people.

I mean, I remember one time I was, I had brother when he was struggling. And he wasn't meeting half the time. And I was like, look, these, these, this is your problem. Because it's usually a pattern when you see somebody, their life. They got some sand in their life.

And then you look up and they're not around. They, they don't meet.

“But I remember asking this guy, I was like,”

you're not, you're not meeting these are your friends.

And I was thinking John 15, no greater love than a man laid down his life first friends.

And he's like, I don't want to be around these people. Yeah. He's flat out, said the obvious. Right. And it's like, because it's harder to have these friends in the lower,

because they're constantly challenging the way I'm living. Yeah, but I don't want to change my life. And that's what it gets down to. We talked about this a lot. We had a, our marriage refresh last weekend.

And we were talking about kingdom marriage. So the idea is just like we surrender in the kingdom, which is such a odd term of victory is to surrender to win. And yet that's exactly what happens. And how that has to happen in your marriage.

And one of the illustrations that someone used, which I thought was good is like, you know, we say, would I give my life to protect my wife and my family. And most of them would say, if that moment came, I feel like I could step up and do whatever it took to protect my wife

and protect my kids. In other words, take a bullet. But can you take the burden of the day to day? Because that's where really it, you know, that the chances of you having that life or death moment are slim.

It'll happen to some. But 99.9% of everybody has to make a decision in marriage, whether you can take the burden and not just the bullet.

“And I think that's exactly the same picture”

that he's describing here. And I love the idea that the natural reaction to it and the response is that we would become giving people who would look at situations and have compassion. You know, but if you didn't, you know,

some people that are like all the things you describe from Proverbs 6 that that is a marker of your life, you know,

those folks usually are never very compassionate to people or never very.

Can you be? It's guilty conscience. But it's a throwback to where he started when he said in verse 6 of chapter 1 when he said, "If we claim to have fellowship with him, because we want to have fellowship with God, because look at the benefits.

Yeah, live forever. Don't burn in hell. You know, all the big highlight moments that you get out of this. But it says, if you claim to have fellowship with him, yet walk in the darkness, we lie and don't live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, see others in the light,

then he throws this little parenthetical in. We have fellowship with one or nothing.

“Part of walking in the light is doing the day today,”

fellowship, which is the same reason people don't share Jesus. You know, I've found that. People like, "Well, it's just not my talent or no, it's just messy." When you share Jesus and have difficult conversations with people, people don't want to do that.

And because it's messy, but it's the messiness that actually works. And as a fact of me, think about what Paul said in 1 Corinthians, chapter 1 and 2, he said essentially, I didn't come in with a bunch of really good arguments. And if anyone had great arguments, it would have been Paul,

because he was both a scholar in Judaism. He knew the Torah very well. He was, you know, the Pharisees, but he was also a Roman citizen. And we saw later in the book of Acts, and he was able to interact with the Greco-Roman philosopher.

So he was very old red. He knew his stuff. But he told the Corinthian church, when I came to you, my witness, my presentation of Jesus to you is not in wise and persuasive words, less the cross, but it was, he said,

came to you with the demonstration of the spirit and a power. So that your faith might not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. And so when you consider the apostle Paul, and how he shared Jesus,

it really, it's not about your effectiveness that leads people to Christ anyways. It's actually about the Holy Spirit in you coming out through your story through your testimony through your genuine experience with God.

That's what you share. It's not some packaged up thing, you know? [Music] Well, you know, there was that, that the refresh last weekend,

there was a couple there that I'd never met.

And I don't know who they were. I mean, there's like, a lot of times there's a lot of people there, and so they were doing one of the testimonies. So I knew the people that organized the train and and others knew this couple's story,

but I had no idea.

They get up and they start sharing.

And it was amazing. It was so revelation, 2011, you know, which is that we overcome the one by the blood of the land, the word of our testimony. The fact we don't love this life so much,

we'd shrink back from anything including death. And when they were talking that passage, it was like a highlight. It was like if it could be flashing above their head, it was because they were given all the glory to Christ and honor.

But when they went back and described their pathway, I mean, she was an atheist and he was a diagnostic.

“And I think they were originally from California.”

And so that was their start. And then they start walking through and he was a physician. He's a doctor that doesn't practice anymore. He was a doctor and he used his position of authority in his words to groom women.

And so he had these multiple affairs. They both been divorced the time or two before they found each other. And then he had these multiple affairs. But he said, I mean, who says that out loud? I was a groomer of women. As he said, he said, I would find them.

They were weak will just want to describe in the scripture. They would have problems. And I knew just what to say to set the stage to then be able to take advantage of. He when he was described. And I was like, wow.

I mean, you talk about a man who's found some healing. They can talk about the way he was in these terms. And what was really interesting was he said, what finally broke through to him was when his daughter was in the high schooler.

And a person was trying to groom her.

And he said, I never had anything for children.

But I was doing it to women. He said, but when that happened to my own daughter, he said, all of a sudden, he said, I looked at the situation. I was so offended and mad about the thing. He said, I realize that's you.

You're doing the same thing just in a different genre. Yeah, but somebody's daughter. Exactly. Which is what I said when I got up his book later. But when I heard them tell that story and then how that Christ,

how they finally just out of sheer brokenness and just misery of a miserable marriage and life and all that, they just came to Christ in that broken, battered way. And then he had totally changed them.

“And so now for the last, I think they said three years.”

They're both working corporate America. But they just sold all their stuff. And they have a motorhome. And they strive around offering to do testimonies of churches and talk about their memory.

And I was like, that's the part about that you don't love this. Life's so much just straight back from anything. And so they wound up at our marriage retreat because they had met some people. Because they just drive around on our RV.

They both work corporate jobs to make a living and to provide for them. But they live a life of now ministry and try to help them. Yeah, I was like, I got a guy like that. Like if you think about the blood of able against a guy like that, it says avenge me, it says canceling.

Yeah. Somebody admits that. That's worthy of cancel culture. Yeah. But the blood of Jesus says forgive.

Well, you think about that. That's right. Because we talked about, they had this thing around your table. You talk about the people that just do the talk. Yeah.

And one of the guys sitting next to me is like, man, I mean, when he was describing himself, I mean, I was getting angry. I was just like, this guy, this, I mean, I don't even want to keep listening to this guy. And you know, it was interesting because then you get to the end.

He said, but man, didn't guy good. And I thought, that's where it winds up. Right. For any of us. All one to ask you this in our last few minutes.

That first shot in three, 15 is such a profound statement when it,

because there's two aspects of it. One is anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, which echoes what Jesus said on the sermon on the Mount. Yeah, remember that? Yeah.

You've heard it said, no commit murder. But I tell you, if you're angry with your brother, you've committed murder in your heart. Right. And I mean, what a profound statement.

And then it says, and you know that no murder has eternal life in him,

“which I think people who are skeptics of the Bible think,”

well, wait a minute, let me get this right, Moses, murder. Yeah. I'm ready. Yeah. You killed the Egyptian.

Yeah. You're a Paul, which Zach just referred to. He was going around killing Christians. You have David who we haven't been mentioning. But you remember his murder?

He murdered his son. So his wife, I mean, the fair he had husband. Yeah. So how, what would you tell the skeptic? I mean, I just wanted to get jealous opinion.

Because I think people bring that up. They're like, well, why would John say that? Yeah. Well, I think because that shows you how it plays out. I mean, they actually did commit murder.

Yeah. You know? And, but where did it start?

You know?

And first of all, that love is your, you lose your love for God,

but then you lose your love for your neighbor.

“So I think that's a great point that you described.”

Three of the major characters in the whole biblical narrative were people who committed murder out of this sinful, you know, art that was there. So yeah, I mean, that's the prime example. When your heroes are people that have done exactly what he's warning you not to do. That tells you about there.

This is going to, it's got to be something bigger than just you. Well, the failure, if you think about this, the failure to love, it is, it's that. And then it's also, I think it's about vocation. We talk about that a lot on this podcast. But one of the biggest, the biggest fundamental flaw with liberalism.

And I mean, political liberalism is that it's historically, and I don't mean classical liberalism. I mean, like as we know today, is it, it's seen resources is finite. And you got to hoard up the resources, right?

So the whole idea is that we got to economic pie.

And you got to make sure that that pie, you get your part of that pie. Because if that piece is gone, if somebody else eats it, well, then it's gone forever. So the mindset is it's built on a mindset of scarcity. And so I think this is the problem.

It's the same problem of cane. So I didn't want to give up the sacrifice to God. It's what he was thinking with a mindset of scarcity. He didn't understand the cultural mandate. He didn't understand Genesis 128.

But though it's not scarce. We actually can create wealth. We can actually expand the garden. We can actually expand the fruit production. Like it can be expanded.

Abel got that. So he could very easily come to God with this offering. Because it's like, I mean, well, yeah, I give God this offering. And then we'll, you know, he'll produce 10, 10 fold. I mean, I'm not worried about the resources.

There's enough to go around where a cane was like, I got to hoard it up.

“And so I think it starts with a fear that you're not going to be provided with.”

And that's then you start to hoard, right? You hoard it up. You said, I'm not going to do the cultural mandate thing. I'm not going to expand the garden. I'm going to build a fence around the garden.

That was cane. And then when you look at someone who is expanding the garden, then the jealousy's come in, then you start to fill all that stuff. And so that plays out throughout all of the history of the Israel. We just read Exodus 32 and either this podcast or the last.

I can't remember. They all bleed together. But what was the issue? And you know, in Exodus, whether Israelites, God literally has mana reigning out of the sky.

Like breads falling out of the sky. He's, he's obviously going to provide for you. And he says, just don't do one thing. Don't hoard it up. Don't, don't, don't gather it up.

Get what you need and leave the rest there. And what they did. They gathered it up. And you know what you know it's amazing about that. Zach, you're so right.

They, you know what they took to make the golden calf. All the plunder that God had given him. I have Egypt. And they took all that gold and all the great stuff he gave. And then they just melted it all down into something that they would bow down to.

It got out of scarcity. Your point is that. And to be fair, the only real evidence that God had given them prior to that. That it was that he just literally parted the red sea for him. Yeah.

I mean, you're thinking like, what else does this, the God of heaven have to do? How in the world coming out of what you just came out of. Seeing what you just saw, how in the world.

Would you think that this God, you always not going to provide for you.

But they thought that. And so they, they leaned on their own ability to make sure that they could build a fence around their garden. And instead of doing what God called them to do, which it's, it's, that this idea of expansion in our vocation. It's, it is a key facet of how we interact with the kingdom of God. Which goes back, goes back to that presence concept.

The presence of God in our lives is an infinite well of everything we'll ever need. To Zack's point, you're never going to run out. I mean, the whole spirit's going to provide what you need. I think it's interesting. He's contrasting the anger that it takes to take a life.

Versus given up your life. Exactly. And that's what's being highlighted.

“And remember, that's what Paul did, that's what Moses did, that's what David did.”

They all, well, look at our culture, all the things that result in death. Yeah. I mean, yeah. If we all call to hope to that movement. Well, civilization would die out.

Yeah. It results in death. Because Satan is the architect of it. All right, we're out of time. We'll pick it up here next time. I don't understand.

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