HTDE: The Breakfast Rule

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We want to share a little behind the scenes thing from our other jobs producing wait wait don't tell me. It's something called the breakfast rule. Here to talk about this with us our host Peter Segel who you all know and learn a white who is our technical director. Hi, this is very exciting to be on the air with Lorna. This really

know this never happened. This never happened unless it's a mistake. Oh well, there you go.

This isn't a mistake, but it could have been. It could turn into one. Yeah. It could turn into a mistake. Very quickly. Lorna, I should say is with us because when it comes to avoiding mistakes that might get the show canceled, Mike thinks of Lorna as the last line of defense. It's true. If, yeah, you're comfortable with that description. I'm comfortable with being the mom of the show.

“I'm not comfortable with it because I don't know what it means. What is Lorna defending us from?”

If there's ever anything that is online and we're still uncertain about whether or not it's going to offend the audience, Lorna is often one of the last, if not the last person to hear the show before it goes out. If her radar goes off, then we know we have to address it. That way, she is the last line of defense. We have this rule called the breakfast rule, which is how we decide whether or not something is too gross to go in the air. If you were eating breakfast

while listening to whatever story, how grossed out would you be? Recently, there was a question on the show that made the show, but there was a part, I was editing this, and there was a part that happened at the end that I found to be the funniest part, but it also felt like I don't know if we can

put this on the radio. First, let's just take a couple minutes. We'll listen to what ran on the radio.

This is the edited version. Peter, times are stressful. We know that, but the New York times is offered advice for achieving quote in Nirvana, just do what? Subscribe to the New York Times. No, I will take it. It's okay. I mean, not only do you achieve absolute inner peace, you also find out if you have polyps. Get a colonoscopy? Yes, go get a colonoscopy. A writer was finally forced by his advancing age to get a colonoscopy, and he discovered

that they're actually wonderful, a secret known only to all the people who have gotten a colonoscopy. Why do you think we're smiling all the time? I'm sorry. I've had two. I do not agree with this sentiment. I liked the being knocked out and not being awake for it, but have you prepped for a colonoscopy? Well, it was a period of time. So, most people who enjoy colonoscopy, it's all about the drugs that give you the procedure you're out and you wake up and feel good. It's okay, you feel good for the rest of

“the day. This guy even loved the prep. That's when, yes, that's when you have to drink”

gallons of horse laxative until your organs liquefied. Exit your body. He says, quote, "It was as liberating as a spa day." He called it, quote, "My diarrhea vacation." Oh, my God. And I will admit it is kind of fun to discover that your own body is a clown car. I had no idea how well that was fit in there. You know, people get on the near times for so many, like, political, um, yeah, right? This is too hard to work. This is, this is the last trophy. I'm not interested in

their opinions on colonoscopy. Yeah, this guy is going to be so amazed if he ever takes an actual vacation. You mean, I don't have to spend all day lying next to the toilet? This was Wisconsin Dettles,

is heaven on it. All right. That's fine. All right. For me, the D word is always on the one. Yeah,

I'm sure. Okay. Whenever that shows up, I'm never sure I want to hear it. But, okay, so I'm going to play now what we cut and it'll just pick up at the very end of what you heard of. And, you know, Wisconsin Dettles is heaven on it. Of course, he got into trouble because my diarrhea vacation is the trademark for Carnival Cruises. And I got mad. I had Nora O'Virus once. Really? I would not it describe it as Marvana. No. It was quite painful. You did say that like a character in a film noir movie. I had Nora O'Virus once. It was fantastic. It was fantastic. That was for the days. My salad days. We're salad little leek and out of my box.

It doesn't paint a picture. Yeah. Salad coming out of your bite. That's a little too visual. I will say that it was fun for me to listen to that because I remember the material that ended up in the air because it ended up in the air. But my mind just races everything that happens during a taping usually. So, I had no idea what was going to come next. And what was it? That

would that finally ended up crossing the line, the breakfast rule. And it cracked me up that it was

negines long walk to that remarkable destination of salad coming out of one of the ones but it was. So, that's what it was. Yep. Yeah. I can see that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that would be a problem. Especially if people were eating salad for breakfast.

“Salad coming out of your butt. I think I would have kept that if I read it. Really? I think so. Yeah.”

I don't get what I kept it. What do you think? Lorna, do you think I would have kept it? I would have questioned it. You would have kept it. I would have questioned it. No, heavily. I like what we've done here that we so what what we did is because we because one time we were who have someone talking about salad coming out of their butt. Yeah.

We have now successfully added 10 additional 10 additional times saying salad coming out of a butt. Right.

Into the MPR archive. It's true. It'll be there. It'll be a library of Congress forever. Yeah. Okay. So, in conclusion, this is the breakfast rule. Salad coming out of your butt. That is too much. We just said it again. Yeah. And I would just one more time. Salad coming out of your butt. You can use this in your own life, I think. Yeah. To decide if something belongs there. Or not. If you're dating someone and you can't, you can't eat breakfast without being disgusted by the thought of them.

“I think it's time to break that up. Oh, that a person would violate the breakfast rule. I know some people that could.”

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More information is available at Hewlett.org. This is how to do everything. I mean, and I'm Mike, if you have a question for us, you can send it to us at our email or email address is [email protected]. Autams has a question. Autams, what can we help you with? Yes, so I have a very unique name and I'm wondering how to kind of change it to make it proper to the situation, I guess. Okay, yeah. I mean,

“I guess we just said your name. It's Autumn's, but I think for the purpose of this question,”

we should have you spell it for us. Yeah, so it's Autumn, like this season. A U T U M N with an apostrophe S. The apostrophe is a part of your name. It is, so my first name, obviously, is Autumn's and my middle name is Hope. So it's Autumn's Hope. Oh, that's nice. That's it. Yeah, my dad, you know, decided to make it a super easy one, right? Wait, so what did teachers call you when you're in school?

Yeah, I always go by Autumn just because it's less confusing, but every time I got handed a report

card or now any time I do anything legal, people get very confused and they look at me and say, oh, hang on, there's a mistake, and I have to go, no, no, no, the mistake was made at my birth certificate. If I were, do you know, so if I were writing about something that was yours, if I were talking about your car, say, would I write A U T U M N apostrophe S, apostrophe S? Car? That is exactly my question. That's exactly why I contacted you guys because I've always wanted

to know that since it is inherently possessive, but of my middle name, how do I go about making it possessive of other things? Mm-hmm, yeah. Do you have, do you have any siblings? I do, and all their names are normal. No, really? Like what? Yeah, yeah, really. So my mom wanted to name me Autumn Rain and my dad thought that that was too hippie, so he put the apostrophe S instead,

Apparently, although it didn't work 'cause I ended up a little too hippie for his taste, too.

What are your siblings' names? Yeah, Clinton Edward and Kimberly Diane. I feel like those are just those are the exact opposite of your name. I don't know. There's a missed opportunity. You could have been Clinton's despair. You know, the perfect person for this is Merry Norris. Norris is spelled by the way, there's no apostrophe before the S. Merry Norris has been a copy editor and proofreader with the New Yorker magazine for decades. So, Merry, we just got off the phone

with someone named Autumn's. And that is spelled Autumn, like the season, a apostrophe S. The apostrophe

is part of the name. First of all, can we just get your response to this as a name?

Her name is a possessive? Yes, that is correct. It is.

“That seemed like a mistake. That's what Autumn would tell you, too, and she's had to tell everybody that.”

It's not a mistake. Oh, my. It's interesting because the world of the web and you know, digital world reject apostrophes, every chance it gets. But it wouldn't make sense to spell it without the apostrophe either. I think she should change her name. Okay. Okay. Well, let me ask you this if she didn't change her name. Yeah. Just grammatically, if I wanted to talk about something that

belonged to her, would I do Autumn apostrophe S apostrophe S? Autumn's is? Yeah. Well, I think that

would just make it worse. Don't you? Well, what would you do? What I would do? I would draw the line. Yes. Double up on CBS. No. Okay. I mean, you can drive yourself crazy with this stuff.

“Can I ask you, Mary, so we're coming to you as our kind of ultimate authority on this, right?”

When you're in a similar situation as we are, and when you don't have an answer, who do you turn to? I turned to the person who was my boss as the New Yorker at the Copy Desk. Her name is Anne Goldstein. And I turned to her. Okay. Can we conference her in? Could we bring her into this call? I wouldn't, I wouldn't know how to do that. I could probably figure it out. Hello, Anne? Oh, hi. Okay, I am. Hi, Mary.

All right, Anne. We have called you here with a specific purpose. Mary says, you're the person above her that she calls when she has a grammar question. Is that right? Yes. I mean, I don't consider myself above her, but she was on it. Yes. Okay. Office hierarchy. Anyway. Well, yes, it's office hierarchy. That's right. Great. Okay. And what do you think about that name? Someone with that name on their

“birth certificate. Autumn apostrophe S. Okay. It's not a McLaren. It's real sister. It's not. I think people”

haven't think it is. Yeah, but no. So if you're going to write it out about you're going to say, who's cars that and you know it's Autumn's car, how would you spell that? Oh, that's really a trick question. I guess we'll put another apostrophe on. Yeah. Well, the thing is, if you put another apostrophe, yes, it looks like a typo. Well, it may look like a typo, but is that not the right answer? You could argue it either way. It's a chooses manner. I guess it's a New Yorker. We

would put a apostrophe S. That was we made a ruling about the apostrophe S at a certain point. Okay. So what's the consensus? Do we have consensus here? I can see. I know. I mean, you don't. The consensus is that anything goes. All right. Thank you both. Mary, thanks again. There's no interesting. It's very, that's a very interesting question. I'm glad you sprung it on me. Oh, sprung it on me. Oh, hang it on me. Oh, hold on a sec. Mary, is this sprung or

sprang? Which is it? Bring spring sprung. You know, we should do. It seems like it seems like the available punctuation marks are not sufficient for autumn's unique needs. Yeah. We should make her a new punctuation mark. Something she can use whenever she needs to indicate that she

to try and help us. This is Keith Houston. Keith, when was the last time we got a new punctuation mark? Well, the last successful punctuation mark, I guess, was probably the exclamation mark. It looks like it was around about the 14th century, but it's not really clear. It's not really clear

“if where it came from. I think this is the gestion that it comes from an exclamation of joy”

in Latin, which was ill. So I, oh, and you can imagine how with, you know, maybe the ice ends up above the old perhaps to get smaller and smaller until it turns into a dot. And at this

point, this is where, in the mid 40th century, this is where, this is where it was first proposed

and it seemed to become more common into the 15th century. And then after that point, you're pretty close to, well, that's really printing. Now, that's when printing appears. And so it was lucky enough to appear at the point of which it could be standardized. Okay, so, autumn's. First of all, let me just as someone who has looked at punctuation throughout history, what is your reaction to autumn's name? It is a bold, a bold choice for a name, I think, on the part of her parents. And I can, I can,

I can see a problem. Yeah, it's not, not an easy thing to deal with, especially when you're dealing with possessives or plurals. Yeah. And you're being, as an apostrophe, yes. So if we were, if we were to come up with a new punctuation mark, to something just for autumn, where would we begin in creating

“a new punctuation mark? First of all, you have to describe what the mark needs to do and then”

figure out what it's going to look like. So, I don't know, imagine, perhaps we want to mark which looks like, I don't know, a plus symbol with a diagonal line through it or something. And this indicates something belonging to autumn, for example. Okay. If you're lucky, that might already exist. So, there is this organization called the Unicode Consortium. And this is when we get, again, really exciting, we get to talk about big NGOs. And so, the Unicode Consortium has responsibility

basically for standardizing the set of characters that computers can, computers can exchange.

And in doing so, they're more or less, they don't control language. That's, that's far too strong with putting it. But they are the final gatekeepers before a new mark of punctuation or a letter or a number or any other symbol can be used on the majority of computers or on the world. So,

“you need to design your mark. You need to describe what it's going to do. And if you want to”

be able to type it on anyone's computer. If you want autumn's special mark of punctuation to be available everywhere, you have to convince the Unicode Consortium that it's a good idea. And they have a whole set of criteria. You have to write this little formal document to send it off to them. If you perhaps they'll call you to ask the discuss it. And if you're lucky, the Unicode Technical Committee will decide to include it. And at some point in the future,

it then becomes ratified, it becomes a standard mark. And then if you're further, if you're even more lucky, then all of the companies that care about what Unicode say, like Google and Facebook and Apple, all the companies that actually control the text that we can see and we can type, perhaps they decide to add it to their fonts. And they can do that because Unicode said, this is a standard mark. Okay, okay, but it starts with Unicode. Yes. And it ends with Unicode

in some ways. Is there someone at Unicode you recommend we call to start this process? Mark Davis was one of the finding members of Unicode. He would be the perfect person to talk to

about this. I think it's amazing just that the person in charge of exclamation marks and question marks

is named Mark. I think that's an amazing thing that's happened. I've been writing a punctuation for 15 or 20 years now, and I have not thought of that previously, just a point as in myself. Okay, all right, Skyler has managed to arrange it. Mark Davis is on the line with us now. Hey, Mark. Hi, how are you doing? Great. Great. Can I pitch you a punctuation mark? Well, go ahead. We'll see what happens. All right. Here you go. All right. Yeah, we have a listener who

we need a new punctuation mark to denote possession that we would like it to be part of Unicode, part of the universal system. We all use as soon as possible. Can we do that? That would be very hard to do. And I can outline some of the reasons why I get sorry tricky to do. But the key issue is that you have to really show a lot of usage before it becomes a

emergencies that we've had. Okay. I'll give you an example of one is when there's a new currency

“symbol. And okay, tend to be things that are emergencies. Another one was when the Japanese”

Emperor died because in the Japanese calendar the era name for each emperor is a new symbol. And then that gets encoded and that was something we rushed out very quickly. So that it can add it to all of the operating systems that they could actually show people dates with the right

era symbol. And as I said, currency symbols are another one where there's those would constitute

emergencies. So if if our caller items, if she were to become the Emperor of Japan, it's possible then that you would come up with a special punctuation or a special character for her. I can say on with almost 100% assurance that if she became the Emperor of Japan, that she could get her symbol into the code. All right. Okay. Well, there's a path forward,

even if it's an unlikely path. Okay. There you go.

Well, that does it for this week's show. Would you learn Ian? Well, I learned that maybe I was not I didn't think creatively enough when naming my children. Okay. I felt for whatever reason whatever shortcoming, I felt confined to the 26 letters of the alphabet. Yeah. When really there was all that punctuation I could have played with. That's true. When you think about it, when you're typing on your phone, there's a button you can push. And that opens up a whole

another keyboard full of opportunity right there. Yeah. Meet my daughter, hashtag Jennifer. And yeah, this is my son. It's an unpronounceable, super strong password. Peter. Yes, Peter, what did you learn today? Oh, I learned about what it is that triggers at least one of the things that could trigger our breakfast rule, which is foods remaining in their original form emerging from the human body. Oh, right. Right. So the picture you have. Yes, is. Yes,

the reason I was staying out. Right. The reason I agree with the decision to cut the game's joke

“is that the image in my head was actual salad in its leafy form, multicolored. Yeah. And that's what”

I thought of. And that's a distressing image in my head. And so that's why I agreed, you know, to with your decision not to broadcast it. Yeah, I guess like digestion is the editing of the body in a weird way. Yeah, we want to make sure, you don't want to, you don't want to see it in this raw form. How do you do everything? It's produced by Skylar Swenson with technical direction from Lord of White. Our interns this week are Ann and Mary, who are joining us

just for this one week from the New Yorker. Send us your questions, whatever they may be,

“to our email address that's how to at npr.org. I'm Ian. And I'm Mike. Thanks.”

Support for NPR and the following message come from the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, investing in creative thinkers and problem solvers who help people, communities, and the planet flourish. More information is available at Hewlett.org.