Precision in the Kitchen: Chef Thomas Mandzik & Aaron Sharpe with Testo, and the Systems Behind Food Safety and Consistency

Not depleting, not the past, not to find a look of the dish, the systems, the controls. The measurements that separate a good kitchen from a reliable one. Chef Thomas Manzick is back in studio, Thomas is one of those chefs who understands that elevated cooking is not just about creativity. It's about discipline, it's about consistency, and it's about getting the details right every single time. At the same time, we're welcoming a new partner into the walk-in-talk media ecosystem.

Aaron Sharp is here from Testo, North America, a company that lives in the world of food safety, measurement and precision.

The part of the business that doesn't always get talked about, but sits underneath everything.

And joining us briefly by Colin is Eric Moore, who is currently at a GFSI conference in Canada. Eric will be part of the new reoccurring monthly segment with us focused on food safety and the systems behind serious kitchens. So this episode is the foundation, not just of a new partnership but of a deeper conversation. Because as we get closer to 200 episodes, it feels like the right time to spend more attention on the parts of the industry that actually keep it standing. Great food is one thing, getting it right every single time is something else.

Let's get into it. Chef Thomas Manzack. Welcome back. It was a great day. Good job, Carl. Thanks for having me, Ian. Don't you get excited coming to this place? You know, I do. I mean, I nerd out for the first couple of weeks and then I really start thinking about all the dishes.

“I love how you guys check on me and make sure that I'm like, hey, what's going on?”

And then I'm like, I kind of getting a little redder's blocking. And then you tell me to chill a little bit.

Yeah, but you did a couple of bangers today. And I always appreciate your food because I know what's going to be.

That elevated next level dish. And today was no different. Let's start off with the first dish, the steak dish. Go for it. Well, the steak dish was kind of a homage to a steak freets. I got the Australian Wagyu beef, a sous-veated, a little shutaki peppercorn crust, a little cavern as you. I mean, a little rosemary dust and truffle jam and a Yukon potato pava.

All of it was great. Every ingredient that you just listed, literally you could taste each ingredient on the dish. And it was fabulous. It was funky.

“It was real good. And well, so here's the thing. I do set it today.”

We're cooking. We're filming. We're doing our thing. First dish went back. You're washing dishes. Yeah. And you look up at the TV monitor. I'm waiting. I do waiting. And you're waiting. Is it there? Is it there? And I caught you saying it because you were by yourself, basically. And now, audience, what he's talking about is that John is doing his photography magic.

The photos he's taking right out of camera are basically showing up on a TV screen. And the chefs that come here who've been here before know about it and they just want to see what's up. And that will happen today. It was pretty cool, man. Yeah. I, you know, John

spoils me because I wrote a very, very first time. He always wrote me first.

Over the very, very first time and it was like, whoa, what is that? Oh, that's my, that's my food. That's my art right there. And so I guess it was that moment where I was just couldn't wait to see it on this big screen. Yeah, you're like, yeah, did somebody do my dish? What is that? Yeah. But we did go a little wild with that rap person dish. It had a really cool shem to it. You know, a little shimmer to it. John, what did you call that?

pearlescent pearlescent. Yeah. I just learned that word today. It was quite pearlescent. I was going to use it in the sentence. All right. Yeah, dude, it was badass. And it was one of my favorite dishes. Thank you from you. Dish too. Well, first of all. Dish too. They'll be for me. Even though we're talking like, plus nine, you know, Wangu, the prawns on the second dish, bro, it was electric. Like, we took a bite and you got like to just almost like a citrusy. You got all of the different profiles

in it. And when you see the pictures of this thing, you're going to see all of that in it. And you're going to, you'll be able to taste it from the photo. My wrong. No, I don't think so. I mean, this is something that I've been working on for a minute. And it definitely, I think

“I tried to hit the, the mark on the electricity of everything put together. The only thing was”

missing was like some, uh, those repeat. Don't you dare. Nothing there. What happened with that? Well, I mean, Carl knows more than any of that. I'm a nerd when it comes to and I'm a big fan of

and the chef starts talking about his dish. And he says sweet potato. And then I remember

“seeing one of John's posts on his personal Instagram. And I was like, yeah, I think that's purple.”

I think that's Oak and I was sweet potato. And that's actually what I was pulling into the parking line to go get as I was pressing pause on the podcast. So I instantly called Carl and I said, he's using Oak and I was sweet potato isn't he? Because that's a good catch. Yeah, well, that's because that was going to go grab some. Yeah, it was literally like 730 in the morning. And you gave me, you know, you reach out. And I'm like, for me, that was the coolest thing I've ever heard.

Yeah, and that was real time in action. Um, um, they was pretty cool, man. Yeah. And that made my, that we might have had to bring it up on the show. All right. But let's rock out on the dish. What was it? I did a classic homage, uh, kind of along with the rock portal and plate. So it was a classic cooking at shrimp with butter poached prawns. And then the, uh, coconut shards on top, passion fruit sphere, me so beat paint and jalapeno line mainly. Really

good, man. And you don't know what does prawns are gigantic. Those are like prehistoric prawns. Well, you know, you gotta go bigger. Go home. This is welcome to our media, baby. You know it. Now, I can't believe we're coming up on 200 episodes. Yeah. I cannot believe it. I've been a fan since the first episode, finally got on here. But, uh, you know, uh, what

“do we got 10 more? After today, 10 more. Yeah. I think this is going to land sometime. Maybe June”

eighth, sixth, some nice. It's going to be the Monday of that week of the year. Yeah. So you gave me a ring. You actually reached out. So let me just stop for a second. I'm welcome to there. And we're doing our set up here with John. And I said, hey, man, you know, we got 200 coming up. And, you know, call me about it was, uh, manic. And he immediately cut me off, of course. And, and he said, uh, he says, you know what you're doing? Cindy is wife. She says, uh, we should do something on

Elyo's pizza. So he understands up in John and I have known each other for six million years. And

back in the 80s, 90s, Elyo's pizza was like, that was it. And we would just, you know, murder Elyo's pizza. Like, you know, cases at a time. So anyway, it was a great idea. And I was like, well, all right, stop because Chef Man took, he gave me a ring, like a couple of few days ago. And we talked about Tampa Club, Shindig, a mixer, um, have a bunch of chefs in, like, make it a big thing. I saw the look of, um, disappointment on his face at, it's true. You did. You were like, well,

what about Elyo? Don't tell me that I'm looking at John right now. He said, anyway, he's like, well, what about Elyo's, you know, basically, he didn't say verbally. He was anyhow. And I said, you know what, we're going to still have Elyo's at Tampa Club, at the end of whatever we're doing. We're going to like the sound of that. Yeah, we're going to cheers each other with Elyo's pizza. What do you think about there? I love it. I love it. You know, um, let's not forget how the chef's like

the eat. And that place is amazing. So what we're going to do is that I'm having, like, tables, we're

just going to have a round of garbage cans that we can eat over, um, them for the chef. I mean, it still is the Tampa Club. Can we at least Tampa Club it up a little bit? Yeah, we can, you know, use the linen liner on the inside. You might say, why table? Just so we're on the same page here. So people who don't know this, if you work in the industry, in the kitchen, specifically like your, what ends up happening is people eat over garbage cans or sinks. You know, it's one of them.

“I at home still eat over the sink. I stand up. My wife is like, what the hell is wrong with you?”

And I'm like, I'm just comfortable. Sometimes just eating something over the, over the sink. Right, or wrong. You're right. 100%. Okay. So it's no disrespect to the Tampa Club. It's like the the pinnacle, um, iconic sort of place to be in Tampa Bay. You know, I want to trouble here. No, sir. Well, you got to make sure that the chefs are comfortable. So I'll bust out some six pants too. We can put the pizzas in there. Yeah. We can even throw six, like, you know, throw

them at each other. You know, I mean, well, after no one, we don't talk like that and had to eat. I know, all right. Oh, my God. One of the biggest frustrations I hear from operators is putting time and money into things that don't actually bring people through the door. Frankie is approaching that differently. It's a pay-per-visit model. So you're only paying when diners actually come in and spend.

200 and 20,000 restaurant videos out there already. What stands out is the accountability.

You can actually see what's driving real traffic and revenue into your restaurant. If you're looking for a more measurable way to bring in diners, Frankie's built to do exactly that. They're offering $250 in in-store purchases to get started. Find a link in the show notes to redeem the offer. Yeah. There's so many things that I would want to say about that. So many things. That's a two hour episode that you'll make it really breakdown. It really is because you know,

I mean, I get it. Real fast. Aaron, I'm looking at you, man. I'm bringing anyone here in a second,

“but he just broke the seal with the gnome of saying, "Look, here's the thing. I understand."”

And he knew what he did the right thing for for leaving. What I knew the side of that,

most of all that was like from 20 years ago. And I don't think that's cool. And the truth is,

you shouldn't be treated poorly anywhere by anybody. And I live by them. Same breath. You gotta like take your lashes and learn and earn. I think that's part of that's part of how you become something bigger than what you are. You gotta earn it. And sometimes earning it is, you know, colds and fire and crawling over it and all that. So I'm walking the fine line on it. I don't think you should have resigned, per se. Maybe I don't know.

But diddy? Okay, because I have to, as a chef. Of course. I came up in that time as well.

“And I would have done anything to be able to put ice dodge that gnome and that's the part of it.”

Because the same people that wrote that they staunched that gnome got to go to any place and walk on the door and they were the executive chef or the executive chief like that. And they were still used that. And all of a sudden, they started creating this whole thing. Now, should you have hit somebody or folks on me with a barbecue fork? Definitely not. So I should have punched him in the face for that. But the same time, they exploited him

by they came there and they knew what the deal was. They knew what the rule was as much as I knew what the rule was when I had to do my free work and get to where I'm at. And all of a sudden, everybody's job pound them. And I don't like the fact that New York Times waited until three days before the event to throw that out there because if they really did care, they would have reported that a long one time ago because they were sitting on it forever.

I got 10 years of restaurants. They always wanted me in the kitchen and I didn't want to do it.

So I understand the culture a lot, right? And then when I got into food service distribution, I had an English chef at a very high end hotel in Miami. This was a long time ago. Something happened with their order, whatever, you know, mushy tomatoes or something. And he calls me and he's ripping me on the phone and he's demanding that I show up in person. No problem, chef, I'll be right over. Get on my way over there, walk in.

Do you know his whole staff? He did this on purpose. His whole staff was in the kitchen. And he proceeded to verbally beat me up. But then he grabbed me by my collar and pulled me in. And I drew the line right there. Now, this is like probably 1999, 2001. Well, something in renter on in there. And I was in my mid-20s, somebody 26, 27. And I said, whoa, I said, chef, with all due respect, grab the wrist and I pulled it off me.

And I'm looking dead in his eyeballs. And I just said, with all due respect, you don't touch me.

“I will do whatever it takes to get this fixed. Don't you ever touch me?”

I thought for sure, I was getting thrown out of that account because it was literally there was probably seven or eight people on this team there to see, to show what this is how you do it. And not today. But when I didn't get thrown out, and we had a side conversation, maybe I apologize. Yeah, because of the front of the bully. You know, yeah, but like, and I know it's different because I don't work for him,

per se, you know, like there. But like those people do, they would have to eat that.

Yeah, you know, look, Aaron. Welcome. Thank you to the program. I mean, how was this, right? I mean, you have a good time. You had a great time today. I know you did. I mean, you know, this start this off on the right note, chef, those dishes come on like knocks it out of the park. Thank you, sir. I mean, it was just a once in a lifetime experience.

The camaraderie, all of the things that happen here, basically when when a chef is here,

and we have another guest, there's cooking. I want to, I almost, it's not exactly family meal, but it's kind of family meal, because dishes are being made, we're filming, there's photography, but then we eat everything. Everything gets cut up, plated for us, all of us and team, what was here? And we enjoy each other's company. We eat, talk, and then we come sit on the podcast,

“and we're doing this. So is it a once in a lifetime? It doesn't have to be, but I think it's super cool.”

You know, I say that because for me, I mean, or I worked in the industry, I got the opportunity to stage that you were just talking about. I got the opportunity to work in bakeries. And for me, you don't get this. You don't get the camaraderie. You don't get the smile on the face when you walk through the door. You get a different perspective. You get that hard ass look for my chef saying, either take this or you don't. So this is just, for me, like, at my age, getting to do this,

this is a really awesome, awesome experience. We appreciate people who are preaching. So thank you. Absolutely. Thomas, in your kitchen, when it comes to proteins, specifically, is temperature the standard everything runs through or are there other markers that you rely on, just as much. You know, 100% man, let me tell you something. With the type of meats that I use at the time of the globe, it's only the top brands prime and go ahead and things like that. And I have to

say that we use thermometers only specifically for that to be able to test all of our mid-rare mediums and stuff like that. I wish you if you've been doing this a very long time, long enough, and your team, too, for that matter, most chefs, most cooks, they're checking camps by feel in your kitchen, that doesn't fly. How come? Because I don't leave by chance the fact that there's such an amazing technology that why would I leave that to human error? Much like, you know,

now that with AI and Chatchee BT and all the technology out there, we should be using that and

exploiting it 100%. Yeah, we're thrilled, actually, to partner with Testo. And the reality is food

safety is a big deal and measurement systems. That's where it's at. You know, as I mentioned in the monologue, we have Eric Moore, who's with Testo, he's their food safety specialist, they're expert. And he's actually at a food safety convention conference now in Canada, and he's going to be on the call here in moments. And we're just going to do an introduction. Because we are doing a new monthly segment in April that has everything to do with food safety

“from from farm to retail, everything in between. And I think people are going to really dig it”

because everybody wants to have safe food. They're environments, the product, storage, all that. Let's get Eric on the line. Hey Carl, thanks for letting me call in. Happy to be here. Man, you know what, it's really great. For me, it's pretty cool that you are physically at a food safety conference right now in Canada. That is true. Yes, I am in Vancouver,

British Columbia, first time ever coming here. It's quite a quite a beautiful, beautiful space.

And I am attending, it's called the Global Food Safety Initiative. It's an annual conference that brings together just under a thousand global food safety experts from some of the largest food manufacturers and food retailers in the world. And they talk about current challenges and future opportunities. A lot of talk about technology and AI and things like that. Yeah, for me, I'm looking at that. And I'm just thinking, I was talking to Aaron the other day.

And about two days, Amy says, yeah, you know, Eric's going to be at a food safety

“conference. I said, that's the best thing ever. You know, because the show that we're going to roll”

out, our segment with you, Mr. Eric Moore, is a food safety based show. So I'm really excited about

Cool, right on. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited for two. This is my first formal

“foray into like reoccurring podcast opportunities. So I'm looking forward to it as well, Carl.”

So myself, I am a practicing food safety public health expert focused on food safety for the last 25 or so years and last nine of which have been with Testo as a subject matter expert and resource for the organization. I also do a lot of organizational outreach and association based work to, you know, share information around food safety oriented technology. Prior to that, I've worked for basically a large North American grocery retailer. I was there for for five years and

prior to that, I worked for a couple of the world's largest managed food service organizations.

So my focus throughout my career has always been around operational food safety and

incorporating efficiencies in process optimization wherever I could. In this all, this all sort of happened kind of naturally. I have educational background. I've a degree in hospitality from from Penn State University and right at a college, I went to work in higher education dining services and then that position just evolved into supporting food safety in those environments and it just grew and grew and grew and grew and grew and led me to where I am today. I'm talking

to you right. Well, listen, as far as I'm concerned in the way I see this, if we look at social media,

you know, at large what you see is a good, but we're talking food obviously. There's such a push

for education regarding, you know, what we're eating, how we're eating it, you know, organic or not, all these different things. The big elephant in the room with food, right, and that goes from farms, you know, all the way through to the final bite from a guest at a restaurant is how is that food handled? Where is it stored? Is it properly handled? All of those things and that can go from literally, again, from the farmer all the way down to, you know, a line cook somewhere in your local

dive bar. I guess it's just one of those things and I feel like the population, the people who are on socials, the people who are listening to podcasts, this is right up there alley. So if we give them information, what it really is and what to look for and just all of that, I feel like it's going to be a major win. I mean, I totally agree. You know, I think, you know, at a very, very macro level, it's easy to talk about food safety, but when you really start to look at whether it's restaurant

level execution, it's food-vanifacturing level execution, distribution, channel, execution or back as far as you mentioned into the agricultural component of things, it becomes really, really nuanced,

“but it also becomes, you know, I think ways to educate and share information, but you have to be”

able to do it in kind of in the right way and the right approach to cultivate the right message for the right audience at the right sort of point in the entire paradigm of food from sort of seed to seed, if you will. So you're going to be the educated eloquent one and I'm going to be like, all right, guys, people, hey, wash your hands. Okay, I mean, this is what it's going to be. I'm pretty sure it's that right now. I usually, I try to, I try to sound polished, but oftentimes that that may,

let me go, go to the waste time. Listen, I'm not trying to bring you down yet, all right, it's just to elevate. So hey, I got a, I got to get rolling here. I got to get back into the, the general session for this, for this conference. Awesome, Anna, and you know what, I can't wait to actually catch up with you on what you're doing over there, but before you split,

“what's the expectation here? What are they looking to pull from what we're doing on the segment?”

I think we want to be able to convey the importance of trust and transparency and what is happening in the places that people go out to eat. Beautiful. And you know what, I'm looking forward to that.

uh, Walk and Talk Media, we're going to bring it together and educate Eric. Have a wonderful

rest of your trip, a hope it's successful, and we'll catch up very soon. Yeah, tears, guys, thanks for the time. Take this, baby, man. Thanks, Eric. Take care. Likewise. Bye bye. Walk and Talk Media is proudly supported by Rack Porcelain, USA, creating durable, beautifully designed tableware for chefs and hospitality professionals. Learn more at RackPourcelain.com. I think one thing that, you know, segue into what Eric just said and also the importance of

chefs tuning in those episodes is the fact that like, you know, this is something that most chefs are not educated on enough. And Testo, as when we were talking over there, you know, you said, "Hey, you want all that?" Because you asked me about my, you know, what type of techniques and standards do I have, and I told you what I do, and it's trying to markers and things like

“that and you want it to be a little easier. I'm like, "Yeah." Well, I think to that point, you have to think”

about, you know, within the last five, six years, you know, COVID happened and everybody became lazy. And, you know, everybody said, "Well, I'm just going to, you know, start pencil whipping." It happened before then. But in the present day and age, you have to, you know, take a step back and look at food safety and, you know, like you, you have your staff temp every single stake that walks out of your kitchen. Well, why? Consistency, it's brand. It's, it's, you know,

the acknowledgement that your standard is on the plate. And what Testo has to offer is the fact that, you know, we, as a company, can really educate your staff so you don't have to do that hard part. Aaron, isn't everything Thomas is talking about like removing guesswork? You know, when you're, you're building systems and that's kind of where you want to live. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, there's something in the industry called SOPs. Okay. Well, let's tell me that down for a minute

because the first time I heard that I was like, "What is that?" Well, SOPs really a standard practice

of measurements. So you're, you're taking out the, the guessing work and you're putting in the data. So when the health department walks in the door and they say, "Hey, chef, show me your cooler logs. Show me your, uh, your temperature logs for for this, the Wagyu or the, the shrimp dish that you made." Well, Suveed has to have its own plan of course in order to make sure that you're guaranteeing accuracy first of all. So now you're taking all of that, you're putting it into a digital

cloud. You're making it accurate because you're not guessing and it's also educating your staff. So it's three components, really. You can't treat food safety like a checklist that has to be

“built into the performance of the team. Correct. You know, I think in the end was something like that”

it has to be a part of their day and it has to be structured into the fact that you can't pass to the next level, sort of speak, unless you are showing the temps doing the logs and, you know, the archaic way that I've been doing at the old school's ways is pen to paper, try to marker on a laminated piece paper. The test of has all these great products, you know, and the system said are in the cloud or on my app that my phone, thank you for adding that to my

phone today. That's pretty, that's pretty pretty nice. Yeah. Well, that's paused there for a quick

second. If, if I could, I kind of want to add a point, you know, there's high turnover in the industry

right now. So think about how you can use an application to train your staff because our application does that. So you don't have to, you don't have to be the one to do it. Nor does your sushi have have to be the one to do it. We can do it for you. Digital way to advise them on how to use fryers, how to use thermometers because there are individuals that just come into the culinary or hospitality industry without any experience. Hey, but it just makes you stronger. It's one thing for a

cook or a chef to have instinct and rely on that instinct. And it's another thing to have tools

“available to assist or aid you and make you do it better. Yeah, I think that the other thing to this is,”

you know, there are chefs out there that just literally will like, all right, let's use that white goo again because it's a great example. I'm just going to touch that white goo and I'm going to see if it's, you know, mid-rare, medium. But how do you truly know? How do you know that that's actually where it needs to be? And it goes back to that accuracy. So I think that there's, you know, there's a lot in food safety because I'll give you a great example. There's one thing that I have

There are places that don't do food safety checklist. There are places that don't have sensors

“in their coolers. There are places that, you know, the list goes on and on and on. But the one thing”

that is fascinating to me is that the whole department walks in the door and they take a piece of chicken and they just dump it and they pass. Well, how? luck. It's complete luck. But here's the deal on that real quick. So I just had my inspection, my first annual inspection for 26, the other day because everything was in place because, and again, we didn't have everything, you know, that would, with these new technologies with Testo unfortunately, which I plan on getting into an

introduced to my staff and to the club. Everything worked out because we had standards, we had procedures, and we had everything in line that we were actually eating the inspector to say, okay, here's our logs, here's the temps, here's the testers and things like that because we had everything in line, the inspector said, I'll see in 27. So we only had, we only got one inspection this year because we had

everything in play. And unfortunately, this isn't, you know, we always build the wall after the

Mongolians attack, and in the chef world, but in the end, if we would put these standards and these techniques and these disciplines in front, our day would be a lot of user and it would be fines and other things like what happened. And even serious, somebody catching something or nor virus or something like that. Oh, well, I was just going to say, so if you don't have these systems in place and somebody gets sick and you get sued because somebody ate a piece of chicken that's 150

degrees, what are you doing? How are you covering yourself? You're going to go out of business.

“And that's why food safety is so, so important because back to Eric's point,”

it's a daily thing that you need to consider standard operating procedures. So please,

it's a big deal. And the reality is we all have our local places we want to go eat and then

there's all the beat chains and then there's like the elevated independent restaurants that are high end. You know, I've been in a lot of kitchens and you never know what kitchen you're going to walk into. That's a disaster. And it could be any one of those. You think you're safe when you're walking into an outfit that has a hundred units somewhere. But it doesn't work that way. I walk into a country club. This is a long time ago. I'm not going to say who, wherever, I walked into this

country club. And it's a nice place. And I just, you walk in and you feel something. That isn't proper. And I know I didn't know what it was. I'm looking for chef and I'm asking some of the some of the cats who were in the, you know, I'm doing prep or whatever. And then it darned on me. The walls are moving. And the floor was moving. And I'm like, I want to hell with this. And I

started like really focusing in. They had a German, Roach, in Festation. I've never seen anything

like this in my life. They were on the floor. I mean, I'm talking like by the hundreds, on the floor, on the walls, on the prep table where the guy was chicken and doing his thing. And they were like there. They were living. They were there with there. And I was just like, I couldn't believe it. And I'm actually looking at my legs. You know, I'm looking at my feet. I'm looking, I'm like, because I feel like, I'm going to, I'm going to leave with them. And I'm all that. I got out of there.

You take one of those suckers home. Then all of a sudden, yeah, you got a problem. So I was, I made sure that when I left, I didn't bring anything into the car home, whatever. But point is, this was a prestigious club. And that was happening. And they were still cooking through it. They were doing their prep. They were working. And I just was baffled by that. I couldn't believe. I'd ever witnessed such a thing. Now, that's real. But that's the analogy of all these cultures

that it just became the normal. It just became the normal. Anybody else, and I'm sure the first day, they were shell shocked. But then it just becomes like, yeah, it's no big deal that

“this things are going on like that. And that's what's scary. And that's why a company like Testo”

and creating these standards and these techniques and these disciplines are, or what is important, because then they become the everyday lifestyle. That's crazy. But you know, this session of Walk and Talk Media is made possible by Citrus America delivering fresh Florida Citrus and juice solutions to food service professionals nationwide. Learn more at CitrusAmerica.com. The other thing that you have to think about is, you know, take a step back.

That's, you know, let's take food out of it for a minute. Let's talk about the staff and their appearance.

or, you know, whatever it may be, I can count like an over a dozen times or more that I've walked into a restaurant and I've seen an employee walk out of the bathroom with an apron on, or they go and they take a smoke break in the back and they have their apron on and they go back into the kitchen. Well, you're not keeping your staff accountable. And that's where we really, really have a strong relationship with our customers because, you know, if there's one thing that we can help you with,

it's setting those standards and we can even make it so you can take a picture of your staff before they start their shifts. So you know that they're walking in and leaving at the end of the

“day with a set standard. That's super, super important right now. So, you know, I think that the other”

thing that you have to take into place is hospitality has such high, high turnover. So if you set a standard at one location and you have a franchise of a thousand locations, you better make sure it's all the same post-COVID, all bets are off. Yeah, all bets are off. Not only did you lose, you know, half of the workforce, I mean gone from the industry totally and there's been a resurgence, you know,

obviously, you know, there's, there's been a balance back, but ultimately it's not the same.

And the older folks, I don't know if they came back, you know, the ones who have the experience. So now you're getting the younger crowd and the younger crowd, like you said earlier, they're not having it. And I don't know if the turnover happens fast enough to where you train these people to where they even know what they're doing properly. And don't get me wrong, and I don't know where here what are you getting my new messages or whatever about any of the stuff, because

at the end of the day, I know everybody works hard. This isn't about that, but there's a threshold. There is a, a work threshold. And I'll go back to Noma and all of that, like, you know,

sometimes you've got to work a little harder than you might want to, but ultimately, like Aaron said,

be proper, be clean, like that's a big deal. It's, it's, you know, it also comes down to how serious do you want to be taken? You know, take food safety out of it, take everything out of it, look at you as a person, like, how, how much do you want to be considered and, and relied on, because it's, it's your professionalism that's being taken into consideration. But much like Carl's example of the roaches everywhere. That wasn't in Tampa Club. That was,

that example, you know, it goes down to the senior management and the managers. Like, you don't allow these employees to come in, you know, Brazilian themselves, certainly, because I've had that issue with somebody and I pulled them aside and said, hey, do you want to work here? No, do you want

“to be a chef? Because that's why I've, I've employed you. And he's like, yes, yes, chef. And I said,”

then go home and get yourself situated. And, you know, I don't want to embarrass the person, but

at the same time, he never came back like that. Because why? Well, they're not going to allow that here.

And these are the type of things that, you know, as managers and you're right, there's so much turnover that we train the first patch. And then we turn around and we're busy. But if we've got, you know, somebody like Testo that can help us with those things and create that standard technique and discipline that we need and, you know, then I'm all for it. Well, why do you think chefs are hitting over the head with a, with a frying pan? Like, what do you, that's why that's what

it is right there? What are we talking about? Yeah, but I mean, if you, if you think about it, you know, when, when I was in school, everybody compared themselves to Gordon Ramsay. Okay, we, we all had that Gordon Ramsay face. And when I was in, in culinary school or, or baking school, I thought I was going to have trash cans thrown at me. I thought I was going to have, you know, stuff, knives thrown. At the time, there were only 67 master chefs. And one of them happened to be

at my university. And he was the one that was throwing the knives and, and doing the trash cans. But you know what, at the end of the day, I'm so glad I got to experience that because it puts the skin on, I'm really thick. And it makes you that person that, you know, can be accountable and

“really be a chef and have that passion. I think, and Chef, you can send me straight. Okay.”

I look at it like this in the military. You go through your boot camp. And they break you down to, to nothing. And then technically, they're supposed to build your backup and, and instill all of these, you know, the character into you. The chefs who could do that are the winners. And it's good. But then there's the chefs that don't actually build your backup. Those are the ones

Yes. And no, I think for me, you know, I would drive home when I had a blow up on my, you know,

and maybe should have checked myself a little bit. And I just said, I don't like who I was in those moments. And I have apologized to employees, but I've also had employees come apologize to me. I had had employees walk out. And, you know, in the end, I have lost my cool. And it is a high pressure area. But in the end, we have to be better as head chefs on how we treat people personally. But when it comes to the actual professional, you know, moments. And you've had this conversation with them

several several times. And it's in that moment where you just know that it's not that they aren't getting it. Like, that's the difference. If you know they're just doing what they're going to do or not paying attention enough, then yeah, the stakes are high. And, you know, for myself as example, it leads to me. If that cheeseburger is being burnt right now, I'm sitting here. That's my cheeseburger. That was burnt. You know, when he comes down to it. And, you know, I work on training my staff.

And I work on holding my staff to a certain accountability. And yes, there's times, because I am human, I've lost my cool. But in the end, I continue to work on showing the respect to the human being. And then, you know, at the same time holding my team to a certain accountability. And there has been times that, you know, over the years, I've lost my cool. But I didn't like that. And I've been working on it every day, you know. And, but the physical and the mental

“and the throwing knives and stuff like that, like, no, that's uncalled for. Yeah. But I think to your”

point, Carl, like, you have that small group that you have a small group of chefs that want to be

chefs. And then you have that other group. And, you know, let's go back to food safety for a second.

If you have a group that wants to be a chef, they're going to take it seriously. But if you have the other group of people and they're not taking it seriously. And they're not washing the rinsing and sanitizing the way that they're supposed to. And the chef is, you know, not being professional, then they're not going to take it seriously. So you have to, you know, back to your military point, you're a unit. If your unit is broken, it's not going to be a well-oiled machine.

So you need to really hone in on what you want and how you want to be and get your team to be the same. Well, that's what I was saying. It's okay to tear somebody down. And I'm not saying hitting them. No, a costing somebody. No, whether that be, put your hands on somebody or, you know, some sexual none of that. Like none of that is okay. We're all in the same pit.

“But when it comes down to being hard on somebody, that's different. And I think you should be”

for the people who actually care about a career or learning. Taste the beating, not the physical beating. Take the, take the hardship of it. Take the coaching. Take it. But it's not right. But sometimes that coaching is not going to be like, "Oh, come here honey, like it's not that." No, no, no. And maybe we mean coaching different. I'm saying, look, you know, the chef's on my butt all day today. That it, I'm just not getting it,

you know, and he just, he or she just won't leave me alone. That's coaching. And, you know, in the end, you know, if you're playing for Alabama, next save it. And, you know, and you're hoisting that, that, you know, that, that championship trophy, you know, you're going to, you're going to sit back and say, "That was all worth it." I have been in those positions. Again, I'm not a chef. I don't have that. But I've had the football coach. Do that.

I've had other employers who, who cared, really, really tear me down. Because I had the problem. It was my ego that got in the way. So how do you, when you have something and a lot of people today are, wow, what the ego's been? So how do you penetrate that? You got to break it. And if they can't handle that, then it's not the right job for them. But if they care, even a little bit, they mean I like it. But eventually they're going to, you know, what? I did learn something. And

“I do care. And well, so does that mentor of whoever that person is, they care too. That's how it works.”

You know, to, to your point, Carl, those individuals that can't handle it are going to look back one day. And they're going to say, wow, that, you know, that really helps me. And maybe it's not

going to be in the present moment. But it's going to ultimately help them down the road in the next

crab, high-lensy food dip, creating chef driven crab dips made with real seafood and bold flavor, learn more at crab-high-lensy food dip.com. So there was a, I don't remember the one movie this was. It was a football movie. And, and I just happened to me in 1989 or whatever with. And this

movie came out not that long ago, maybe 15 years ago, something like that. But ultimately it was like

this, the player, the coach, you know, made them, you know, crawl across the field or something like that, whatever. Well, that happened to me. You know, I had, I had the drive, but I also kind of was disconnected.

“When you're working with a team, you can't be disconnected. You have to be plugged in.”

So when the coach says, hey, you know, everybody, everybody go, you know, head in or whatever. But not you, feed it to me, not you. Like what? You know, let me talk about, let me get out of here. And now, you're, we're going to do something

with you. Okay. It happened to be like this should have been a movie camera set because

it was a rainy day. So the field was just disgusting. You wanted it to get the heck out of there. And old, but when I had to do, I had to crab walk the, the, the, the length of the field and back. And I'm, I'm going to tell you, I was a teenager. I still had the ego as a teenager. And I was, and I was like, I'm not doing it. He forced me to the ground and made me do it. And I physically was cursing this man the entire way. But somehow, I also didn't want to quit on him because I didn't

want him to have that over me. It was like the weirdest feeling was like this reverse, whatever. And do you know, yeah, I did it. I went there, went back. It was the most agonizing. It was after a whole hour and a half to practice whatever it was. And let me tell you something. He helped me up.

“And he, and he, and he was, it was a complete change of personality. And he's like, do you see what you did?”

Did you, did you see how you, you finished it? You got to finish it for the team. And any, any broadness holds full circle thing. And you know, I carried that with me for I carried that with me forever. That was a major lesson. If, when that happens today with some of these other kids, man, like, I just feel like they just take their ball and go home or whatever, like, did you come out of here? Done it. Yeah. And you know what, I want to, I want to bring Eric back into the conversation

for a second because, you know, I started it, test it. Just a little over a year ago. And

Eric really showed that a team operates a certain way. The operational aspect of, of different types of of cultures is really important in order to get to SOP a certain way. So I'm super, super excited for for the show to have Eric now, you know, to to be able to bring that, that component of, of what food safety really means. You know, we just spent time talking about how we're a family and how, you know, you operate as a oiled machine. And ultimately, that comes back to food safety. So,

you know, I'm excited to see what kind of impact this has because, you know, you guys brought it up. You only have 10 episodes left before you hit 200. That's wild. Super, super wild. But it's the perfect time to bring in, you know, a different aspect of the industry for your listeners to really just, you know, move that needle of what they're going through in everyday life as chefs. Honestly, well said, couldn't send it better. And I can't believe we're this far a lot.

Most podcasts go like, you know, between one and five episodes, you need this in there. Ready? A fun fact. No, my actually did this shutdown for Nora virus. So I guess all those barbecue

“forks and pots and pans that he was using wasn't enough. You should have had test them.”

That's a, that's true. Oh, did you just look that up? No, it was you. I had been holding it and trying to set it in there somewhere. So I helped you get added. That's a little bit busy. So I just, no, I might just leave this in as is, man. That's that was pretty, uh, that's entertainment right there. Yeah, there's a whole, um, there's a whole documentary about it and everything is that he got shut down for the Nora virus. And then he brought it back again to the

webinar and when they were the number one restaurant in the world. And then it was like a whole thing where it was called the perfect, I think it's called the perfect storm. I might have looked

party. Where we're doing this, this 200 episode, uh, beats Bernie. Man, we're, we're doing it on the top of Tampa, man. We're the 42nd floor up there at the Tampa Club. I'd love, I'd love for you guys to come bring, bring the chef all stars. Let's break bread. Let's have a little round table.

Maybe we'll get John the Talk. Let's get him on camera, right? He's shaking his head. He's always shaking

his head. No. No. Okay. So it's going to be a podcast, all right. 200 deficit. I don't know we're going to do the Shindig. Every chef has a mic? No. No, it's dangerous. I can't do that. I can't allow that. No. I don't know. I have to, I really got to think about the logistics of this whole thing,

“but I think how I envision it is maybe, I don't know, eight, 10, 15 chefs or something like that.”

You know, culinary contributors, friends of the show, stuff like that. And we just have a nice night, eat well, some cocktails. There will be a video. There will be recording, obviously. There will be that. Yeah. I don't know that we, I don't know. Do we do a, an actual podcast there? I think it's not going to be a good, I don't think it'll sound good. But I think what I do think is the following that next podcast with all the stories, I think that is going to be good, right? It'll

be like, you know, all 200 episodes in one episode because of all the stories, yeah, basically.

I mean, you can't look. Yeah, you put all these, you know, these, you get mystical chefs in one

“place, but some, you know, booze and forget about it, although the walls fall down. You know what I'm saying?”

I'm kidding. I listen. They don't be fine. I promise. I'm all of your people out there. I'm being facetious. Okay. I'm just just saying. All right. It's going to be epic. We know that. So if you ask me, today was wildly successful. And I want to just say, first of all, to Aaron, I appreciate you coming out here. Yeah. And test out in the whole 90 yards. How was today? Did you guys like today or what? Well, man. It was, it was a day to remember. That's for sure.

I really had a lot of fun. Chef, pleasure meeting you, Carl. John, thank you, Aaron. Thank you. How do we find you? Yeah. So you can find test out at www.testo.com or find us on LinkedIn at TestoNorth America solution as well as instrumentation and I am on LinkedIn at Aaron Sharp. Right on, I'm at Black Lamb Chef. And Instagram comes check me out because I'm setting something up in Corpus Christi. Yeah, what is that? What are you doing? Let's talk about the next episode.

All right. Let's see, Krita. Corpus Christi, baby. Okay. I'm digging it. Listen, John, I want to ask you for favor. I just need photography. I need photos, man. Okay. I need

them like pretty quick. This, of course, will be edited and put out for tomorrow as always. So for you,

“I need the same kind of workload. Okay. Same execution. Are you?”

I already take him talk. Guys, listen, seriously. I appreciate you both being here. You, man. I mean, you flew in from up north to be here since you really appreciate that big time. We are out. [Music]