Shooting Wasn't Enough | John Hernandez on Food Styling, RAK, and Owning the Plate

the don't see, it's how much had to change behind the scenes to get it there. Because

“a year ago, this wasn't the expectation. This wasn't the standard. And for John”

Hernandez, the role was clear. Stay behind the camera, capture the moment, make it look right. But as the work evolved, so did the responsibility. Through our relationship with rock, porcelain, USA, the stakes got higher. This wasn't just content anymore. We are in the opportunity to shoot their product catalog. That means every plate matters. Every detail matters. There's no room for good enough. And that's where the shift happened. John

didn't step away from the camera. He stepped deeper into the process. Learning from the chefs coming through the studio week after week, watching how they build, how they adjust, how they think, and then applying it, cooking, plating, refining. Not to become a chef, but to understand the plate well enough to elevate it before and ever hits the lens. And now the work reflects that. So today is a different kind of episode. No outside guests, just

“the conversation about growth, earned opportunity. And what happens when you stay close”

enough to the craft long enough, that it starts to change how you see everything. And as we head towards episode 200 at the Teppic Club, this is part of that story. Because what we're building now is on a completely different level than when we started. Let's get into it. John, do I say welcome to the show? I don't know. You know, it's weird. It's

not weird because, you know, no need each other for a million years. No, it's absolutely

weird. Is it? Yeah. Okay. I don't think so. I don't think it's weird at all. But I will tell you that it's awkward, not weird. It's a little bizarre. Because typically there are shafts. There's hustle and bustle going on here with more people today. She's you and me, baby. That's it. Still hustle and bustle. Yeah. No, clearly. There's work. There's tons of work involved and all of this. But it was different. And it was, you know, listen,

we, it to put down in a little time. We're a little bit, we're only just past our normal schedule time. And we kind of just eased into the whole day. And we had to go shopping. And

“we did three versions of the same dish. Correct. Um, so the truth is things went pretty”

smooth today. All things considered that you're not, in fact, a chef. But today, you were the one holding the tongs and threes are true story. I don't know. Back in 1989, when you used to draw like cartoon characters and stuff like that, you were very artsy. And then naturally over the years, you, you progressed with your art. You started doing more serious stuff. Then of course, you picked up the camera. You did all that stuff.

Fast forward to 2020 and walk in Doc Media. And we're doing the podcast and all of a sudden

there's photography. There's the food. You've always had that eye. But when did you realize

that eye alone? Like, wasn't enough anymore? I'd have to say that I always felt like it wasn't enough. I'm harder on myself than than anyone else could be. You don't always know what the next step is to get better. You know, you can get better lighting, you can get better at all the technical stuff. But you know, having these incredible chefs come in here every week, you know, you start to pick up some of the stuff that they're doing.

And I'm watching them very closely and trying to pick up little techniques and this kind of thing, you know, then I started asking questions. So when they come in here, I'm always trying to pick their brains and get, you know, a little bit of information from them. If I can get a little tidbit each week, I, you know, I see that as a win. Let's talk about the dish a little bit. What'd you do today? We did a Greek chicken pasta dish. When

we went to the store, we were trying to decide the recipe actually calls for penny pasta. But we wanted to elevate that a little bit. So when we went to the store, we decided to get penny, book a teeny and a red lentil spaghetti. When we decided we were going to do that three different ways. Oh, the dish has obviously chicken, artichoke hearts, tomato, some feta, a little bit of citrus, some lemon and lots of butter.

They had the butter was a winner. Gotta have butter. Right. Everything's better with butter. Everything is better with butter. So here's a deal. I mean, clearly, I'm going to Greek. Right. But the food is good. Love the Mediterranean stuff. I know my wife would dig this dish a lot. So all three dishes. I'm going to tell you, John, again, you know, culinary, but you can get down in the kitchen

a little bit. Like in a home style, like your, you're actually really great being a cook, a home cook. And for a guy who granted you have a terrific eye and granted you, you understand composition and colors and you get all that. So for you, maybe styling and picking up, you know, plating is probably pretty easy. But what you did today, three different

as we're shooting them, man, dope. So we did the penny. We did the the book of teeny and then lentils spaghetti, whatever. What was your favorite at all? Now, we're talking looks here because flavor profiles are all right in and around the same, right? But we're talking looks. We're talking styling. What was your favorite? So looks, the third one we did was was the red lentil spaghetti. And I feel like by that time, actually, there was a little bit warmed up. So, you know, my

process, you know, I'm not a chef. So I'm not cooking, you know, a hundred of these and I, you

“know, I'm, I'm going into it cold. By the time we got to the third dish, I think I was a little”

more warmed up. And the process went a little smoother. Plus, we were running out of ingredients. So I did the sauce separate instead of mixing it in with the pasta. My, my only thing is, I was hoping that the red lentil spaghetti would, that it would keep the color a little bit. And it did lose a lot of the red color once it was, once it was cooked. Yeah, turning into more of a Bronx. Yeah. And when she was, but you know what it looked nice? It did. You picked the right play for it.

So it, it actually worked out really well. And, in fact, while I was doing the, the filming, there was one close up. I mean, all of it was, you know, good. But the, just one particular close-up shot, as you were finishing, look, freaking great. Yeah, I can't wait to actually do the editing for them. Yeah, I liked it. I just was hoping for a little bit more red. That's all. Well, all the chefs that come through the studio and all the work we do together with them.

Is there anything subtle that you picked up from from a chef, a particular that changed how you were perroch styling a dish? Yeah, I would have to say less is more, you know, what, when I go out to, to a restaurant to eat, you know, I want, I want that plate full because I'm the consumer. But when I'm taking a picture of it, you know, negative space goes a really long way, you know, color colors

always, always a plus. Find a way. We are in the business of documenting food.

And sometimes, it's not often, but sometimes we become the focus. Actually, no you become the focus, because I actually haven't cooked on the show ever, um, might have to do that someday. At what point do you come up with the thinking, I'm going to just go and and cook just plate myself? I've always kind of enjoyed cooking and I started cooking really young. And, you know, on top of that, I moved out of home when I was very young. So, you know, I've always cooked for myself.

And it's kind of a natural progression at that point. It's not like I have a private chef where I've prepared a dish for me to shoot every day. So, you know, got to do it yourself. I mean, how many ramen noodles did we eat as Dean Andrew and Elyos and Elyos pizza? Yeah, I mean,

“like, I'm afraid it's I'm afraid it's not going to be what I remember.”

Probably won't. It probably, but you know, maybe will. I don't know. Maybe, you know, I mean, after all the, you know, the Thomas Barkers and the Thomas Manzics and, you know, all these people and, you know, the my current as a, are we spoiled? Yeah, I don't know if I'm,

yeah, but can always enjoy a slice of Elyos. I will take that challenge and go for that.

All right. So, there's a many people down there with a camera in their pocket and I love to take pictures of their food. They love to post what they eat on socials. And, you know, that's that whole life that's upon us now. You're a professional photographer. I might say definitely. You a professional photographer. When we have all these chefs coming in and out of here every week, and you have to bring that dish back into the studio. What do you, what are you looking at first? Is there something

that are there times where you need to make corrections or adjustments to these dishes? Is it something where you're like, all right, let me, let me, let me check out the structure. Let me check out the color or the balance. Like, how are you tackling that? I would say that, you know, probably

balance is the most important, and then structure, and then, you know, color, you know, that,

that's pretty much made up of what the ingredients are, whatever the chef is putting on the plate. So, I always try to respect the chef's vision, but composition is super important in your image,

“and, you know, so that's why I would say balance first. But what you definition of balance?”

What do you, what balance are you looking for? So, for example, there's an unwritten rule the rule of thirds. So, things compositionally look better in odd numbers when you're taking a photo. And then, sometimes, sometimes, there's too much on a plate, and it's hiding, you know, an important aspect of that plate, maybe the hero meat or something like that, you know what I mean?

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“So, when I do make an adjustment, I always out of respect that, you know, I try to ask the chef,”

hey, is it okay if I move this or whatever? And then, you know, sometimes you just know, you know, what's going to look right in the shot, and, you know, maybe you can't get an angle, maybe, maybe, but the stuff that they put on the plate, it's hiding it too much, and you can't get that right angle. So, you got to move something for, you know, a lot of times, a chef is plating for a dinner table, not a picture. And, you know, it's similar, but, you know, it's different.

I mean, how blessed are we to have beautiful brand partners like Metro and Testo, and, of course, rack porcelain. John Marino was here a couple of weeks ago. He's the CEO and president of rack porcelain USA. Well, for me, that was such a big deal. I know for you too, that was such a big deal for him to be here in this in the studio with us. The fact that we do so much with them, and the

opportunity came out where you got to shoot their catalog, and, you know, continued to, is amazing.

Now, obviously, when chefs are at the building here, everything's all, you know, easy, easy, easy, lemon squeezy, right? Teasy, you just take chef, I need this, right? But when you're doing these catalogs, it's on you. You're the one has to produce these dishes, and this is where I've seen. This was the genesis of this whole, this episode, is that the progression that I've seen with you, where, yeah, John, you're a badass photographer, but all of a sudden, I have to cook it and play

it too, and shoot. It looks to make it look professionally done. That is a big deal to me, as I'm looking just at, like, how experiences progress and how techniques get dialed in, cooking the catalog dishes yourself is a whole different level of responsibility. What did you learn the

hard way? The first time you owned that entire plate, doing these catalogs?

Ooh, well, first thing I would say is that it is really hard. It's extremely difficult to set up your studio, get everything ready for the shoe, pick your plates, pick, you know, a lot of times actually, your, your plates are already picked for you, but, um, picking your tabletop, picking, you know, the style of lighting you want to use, all that stuff, then you got to cook,

“and these plates are high in, they're, they're beautiful plates, so you have to put high in looking”

food on it. You can't just put a hamburger on there. It's got to be, you know, a good looking dish. The good thing is is, I'm not cooking for flavor so much. I'm cooking for, it's a look beautiful, so you can cheat a little bit. The presentation just has to be stellar though. It has to match the

plate that you're, that you're showcasing there. I would say the first time is that I made an absolute

terrible mess in my kitchen because there's no one clean enough for you. You're literally having to go right, right from, plating into the studio, and you can't clean up because of the food dice. Dives real quick. So if there's any photographers in the audience listening to this, they're going to hear that, they're going to hear what you're saying and understand that. Like, that's a lot of work. It's a ton of work, and it's all hurdles. It's all uphill. It's a ton of work, and here's the other

“thing. So if you make any mistake, you have to start completely over. You've just messed up the plate,”

you're shooting on. So you have to completely start over from scratch, or it might not even be that you made a mistake. Maybe you shot something, and the client looks at it and says, "Well, can we change that color of that post out?" You know, we want the red lentil pasta. Not the way. You know, start over. So look at the other day. If it was anybody else except for like a rack or one of our people, I'm telling them, it stays as is, right? We're not doing this again.

Anyway, it's beautiful, right? That's what you're telling me. You're showing the picture and they're gonna go, "Ah, you're right. You're right." So with that said, "What are most people going to understand about what it takes to actually make food translate on camera?" It's so much different than something you're going to get at McDonald's menu board, right? This is just different. Although it looks delicious, by the way, McDonald's menu board stuff. But it's this is different

stuff. This is a whole different type of pleading styling, photography. I mean, I'll go back to the earlier question, you know, glasses more.

If you're looking for a more measurable way to bring in diners, Frankie's built to do exactly that. They're offering $250, and in-store purchases to get started. Find the link in the show notes to redeem the offer. Don't, you know, don't fill the whole play and, you know, color is really huge. If you can introduce some color to that dish, you know, it can go a really, really long way. And it doesn't take much, just a pot, you know, a brown steak with a brown sauce on a white

mashed potato, you know, it can look really, really dull in an image and, you know, probably tastes

amazing. But, you know, throw some chives on those potatoes, you know, a little melted butter for

some yellow, add some chili flakes to the steak. You know, whatever you can do to add some color, it really, really goes a long way. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Is that it? I mean, it's like, if it's me, like, you know me for a long time, I was like ultra high contrast on my thick of picture. I sent it to you and you're like, yeah, it's an alien. What is that? What's something else for like the the average foodie who goes to the restaurant,

your snap and pictures and send it to their to their wives or kids or something like that?

“Yeah, I mean, you know, lighting is everything, obviously. So the worst thing you can do is”

light a dish from the front. You know, you want to be lighting it from the side or the back and, you know, to add a little drama, some shadows, shadows are, are wonderful. You know, that's what I would say. I remember the first time that I walked into a restaurant. I walked into an active eatery and I had to film by myself. I did was no one there. You weren't there. There was nobody. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this. It was my first time actually doing this

by myself. I had to earn that confidence from the floor up, from the ground up and it wasn't easy. For you learning some cooking methods and learning how to actually plate, what does that do for your confidence behind the lens? Well, I mean, I'm still learning, you know, but but confidence is built when you do plate that thing and you do shoot it and then you're proud of that image that you shot. And each time that happens, you know, that confidence compounds.

How do you know when it's the last microbrain? How do you know when it's the last drip or smear or whatever? How do you know when it's the last one? When it's too much,

when you've crossed the line? You know, I don't always know. And sometimes I love it when I'm shooting

it and then, you know, the next day you look at it and you're like, man, what was I thinking?

“What would you learn from it? You know, the best way to best way to get better is to screw up,”

do you still put on that content? Man, I'm super picky by what I put out. So sometimes, you know, what we do here is very unique. First off, what we shoot is not fake, it's real. It's what the chef is cooking and, you know, if it gets eaten here, this is not, you know, a hamburger with, you know, pieces of corrugated cardboard stacked in between to make it, you know, build up and for this is real stuff. So I don't always love the way a dish looks when

I'm shooting it, but it's real, but I'm super picky about what I put out. Oh, again, it me too. Like, yeah, there's so much content that I don't use, even though it was crisp and there was something that was wrong in the right, just in the periphery where you can get rid of it and instead of instead of publishing that, I dump it. Yeah, same. Yeah, after. And I'm glad we do that. But we have so much content. That's the beautiful thing. We have access to so much action that we can

do that kind of thing. I guess other people might be, you know, compromised with that. They don't they don't have enough. There's not enough for them to be so picky. We're just building out these relationships, man. And for me, that's one of the coolest things about what we're doing here and the growth that we have going on. And I want to just kind of go back to, uh, I want to go back to the catalog for a second. It's a big opportunity. And that's a lot of pressure because you're dealing

“with several people in that company. You have to perform and everybody has an opinion or a direction”

and at the end of it, you have to walk that tight rope, perform execute deliver and that's amazing.

And that's a whole different level of pressure. Knowing that, how does it impact your approach? First of all, the team over at Rack is so awesome to work with. I was so excited. I couldn't have

going in, but the biggest one that I could think of is that we're in Florida and they're in Ohio.

Support for Walk and Talk Media comes from Metro Food Service Solutions, trusted by Kitchens that meet storage and workflow that actually does the job. Learn more at Metro.com. So how do you fix that? The software that I use allows me to share my shoot with them as I'm shooting. They're getting my images live as I shoot. So, you know, we're all communicating the team and me as we shoot. And, you know, sometimes it's, you know, moved that fork a little bit to the left,

move the, move the glass to the right, you know, whatever. So, so they're doing, this is all happening live, you know, constant feedback throughout the day. Generally, before the shoot, they prepare me with a, with a shoot list so that I can get ready beforehand going to shop for ingredients. If I need to go get any props beforehand, I like to research looks for a particular dish that we're doing, you know, a lot a lot of times they provide me with a mood board beforehand, you know,

so there's a lot of prep that goes into it before you even switch the lights on, you know. So speaking of pressure, are you feeling about this podcast? Normally, as everyone knows

and this audience who listens, you never speak, ever. And here you are, just being a little

belly badass doing your thing, talking about your level of work, you, you do a good job on the video

“that we did today, bro. Strikes, strikes, you hit strikes all day. Personally, I think you should be”

participating more doing this. I'm just saying, you don't have to, you don't take, you know, don't say you word, you don't have to say anything, but I'm telling you, this is something that you should get into a little bit more and I think we should have a lot, you know, a lot more fun with this. With that said, Johnny, today is episode 194. We have six more to go. We're hitting 200. I don't know how you process that we've actually been responding about this together.

But for me, it blows my mind. The fact that the average, you know, podcast goes three episodes and they're out. We have a really great team with you and Pooch and Clontess now and I'm going to throw in the two Thomases, you know, Barker, Manzig. We have a really steady team. There's a bunch of people actually. There's another dozen chefs I should be mentioning right now. But the reality

is what we're doing is pretty amazing. What you're doing is pretty amazing. How do you feel

and I hate talking about it like this to tell you the truth? I almost feel like I'm

“pouring it out. But I'm not. I'm not. It's just exciting. What is this milestone mean to you, personally?”

Do you? I mean, we've come a long way, man, from when we started doing this to, you know, today. I'm just hoping and praying that, you know, God willing, we continue to progress and that we continue to bring in amazing partners like Rack. We've been talking about Rack today, you know, to work with us more in the future and, you know, maybe we get to a place where I have a short list of guests that I would love to work with, you know. Like it. It's funny in Manzig.

We're just talking about this a couple of days ago. I would love to shoot air in Franklin's stuff. Oh, that would be badass. In it, you know, speaking honestly, speaking of Thomas, Manzig, he's literally, he literally just sent me it right now. I got two two pictures and a little taxi says, "Can we normalize no AI picks, even ever for food?" I totally agree. Actually, man,

“I think that's dishonest, man. AI with food. I think AI with any finished product. Well,”

so I don't mind AI for certain things. Like so, for example, you know, let's say you're shooting a certain dish or product for a customer, but, you know, you need a background or something. I think that's okay. As long as the hero of the shot is legit, you know, I don't, I don't think it's a bad thing to integrate AI into an image, but, but this session of Walk and Talk Media is made possible by Citrus America, delivering fresh Florida Citrus and juice solutions to food service professionals,

nationwide, learn more at CitrusAmerica.com. People putting full AI images out as if, you know, what the dish they did is is dishonest in my mind. I do not, I scroll past. I don't want it to

person going forward, I think most people are just going to tune out of that. I was, I think people are kind of getting sick of it already, man. Well, I've been sick of it from the beginning,

but I like AI for workflow purposes. It's freaking amazing. Like, it's a life, it is a life

changer. Yeah. But like, people who are making future decisions based on, you know, what kind of, you know, AI production they can do. I don't know, man. I just, I'm with you. I mean, there's magazines out there that do that. The whole, you know, entire pieces are done in AI, the article,

the fold was, everything. I can't get behind it. I just can't. I can't smell it. I can't eat it.

“I love for me. But I will tell you this. June 8th. Invite only. So if you get one. Are we having AI dinner?”

It's an AI dinner. It's going to be AI delicious. Tap a club real life in person, pinch me. We're having a big shindig. It's going to be pretty dope. He got Cisco, Bush Brothers, Lombard AC food, crab island seafood dips, southern ice house with a sculpture, ice scale is so, I mean, there's going to be more to it. This is like the current list. So there's going to be ton of food, ton of cocktails, and it's going to be just badass. Let me tell you something a little bit more.

Metro and rack porcelain will be donating product merchandise as a raffle at the event.

“So that's pretty exciting. That's so epic. It is epic. It really is. I mean, honestly, we are so,”

I'm going to say blessed to be where we are hands down. 100%. I mean, I know what the music means. I know you know what the music means. Super excited to see the photographs. I'm actually pretty stoked about the videos I'm going to put out. John Hernandez, I have a images. How do people find you? You can find me on Instagram, I have images or at I have images.com. Yeah, and you don't want why don't you build up your link then? I'm just saying, hey, people like it. Look up John Hernandez,

it's going to be hard to find him. There's 6 million John Hernandez, but if you go,

I'm connected to you, man. Exactly. So if you go to Carl Fiat, be me or walk a talk,

“you're going to find John. And you should follow him. Same thing on the Instagram. I”

mean, I appreciate your brother. Let's get, let's get on out of here and I will see you on side B. We are out. [Music]