Katrina Simmons & Kristi Kastler on Grief, Addiction & Fighting The Fentanyl Epidemic

recover a huge show and stories. And you heal, heal, someone else. I mean, let's pass it on.

“If someone has a problem with substance use disorder, please call one call placement.”

That's 888-831-1581. And if we can't help you, we'll make a referral to someone who can. One call placement is affiliated with Carrera Treatment Wellness and Spa and One Method Treatment Centers. Before we start, I just want to say this. What you're about to hear is real. And it's happening every single day. Please don't assume it can't happen to you or your family. Today, one pill, even one time, can be deadly if it's not prescribed to you, do not take it.

Have an arcane on hand and make sure you know how to use it. It can save a life in minutes. And most importantly, talk to your kids, your friends, your loved ones. The drug supply is changed. Awareness and conversation can save lives. We're out of time. Today on Wheel Out of Time, I'm joined by Katrina Simmons and Christy Castler. There are two mothers who each loss their sons, Dylan and Devon to poisoning.

After years of trying to help their children through addiction, they experienced firsthand how dangerous today's drug supply has become and how quickly things can turn fatal. They've now turned that loss into a podcast, DK805, where they're working to raise awareness and help other families avoid the same tragedy. This is a difficult but important conversation about addiction, loss, and what people need to understand right now.

Christina and Christy, thank you both for being here. Thank you, Richard, for having us. We do have that happen often. Katrina and Christy, we usually announce ourselves as the opposite name. We'll say, oh, say it's Christy and Katrina, but thank you for having us. It's been a, we were trying to connect for a while.

“Well, I can tell you the honest answer for that right now. Why have been jerking you guys around?”

Oh, you haven't. No, we've been, we've actually, I was. No, no, no, I was. Okay, let me tell you why I was. Because you guys have more courage than I do. See, I started this thing because it's really why I came back to work and why I started this podcast.

I've never seen a podcast. I've never listened to a podcast. Okay? But my idea was I'm going to

screen this thing from the mountain tops like you guys are doing all the time and I started out that way and it just took a toll on me and I'd cry like a little baby. Okay? I was like a little bitch every time we had to talk about it. Okay? And because it's the single most unnatural thing that a parent can do. It's not supposed to be that way. It's not supposed to be where we bury our children. That's not the way this is supposed to work. It's unnatural. And the reason I jerked you guys

around was because every time I do this, I take your grief and I put it onto me like it's happening to

“me. Same. I know. That's why I said I don't do this all the time. Okay? And you have more courage”

than I do. So thank you guys for doing this. The first thing I want you to do is tell me about your voice. Sorry. I know it's the worst. It comes so far. We've interviewed other moms. We've come so far. I think maybe just tell you, acknowledge that. It's so hard. It's so hard. We've been through

critical. We've listened to, we put our sons stories out there to save others and to raise awareness

weed psychoses, which I experienced with my son, Dylan, and trying to save them from that and the

“very early stages that I was ridiculed for. I just sort of wasn't there wasn't any ridiculed.”

That wasn't really helpful. At that time, but when I when I shared the story every 11 minutes, I shared his story. People that have their there's a real protective bubble over there on their own love for the for cannabis for weed for there. It was my son's stories on how triggered their defensiveness that I was saying. It's not good for I had a reframe and I had to do a little video the next day. I had people saying, I mean, it was my son's loss. It was baby pictures of him. It was

how I, it was his toxicology report. And I had shared that all he had alcohol, high strains of weed, which are the high strains, 9 and 10, you know, the synthetic layers and then there was trace

“levels, not even a lethal dose of smell in his system. And when I shared that, people, this was”

way back. This was when we first started. Well, Katrina, I feel like she was reticulated because people did not want to believe that something marijuana is late. Right. So there was a protection I felt like, you know, or, or just even just the, I had to deal that, like, a put a protective layer, or I had to really shut down because the very marks were your son, less than an idiot.

Hold on a second. Okay. You're always going to be ridiculed by drug addicts because they're

going to defend their right to drink and use. Okay. But their idiots, they don't know any better. Okay. And I sincerely, I see that up all of their view. And I'm sorry. Just think about who these people are for a minute. Okay. We have a mother that lost their child. And you have a bunch of idiots. Okay. That are going to sit there and pile on you. Listen, just just rest with the knowledge that these people are pieces of shit, and they're going to amount to nothing.

Okay. What it does? That's bad. That's bad. But it's also a fact. Yeah. Okay. These people are garbage. Anybody who would attack a parent after losing their child is a piece of shit. That's it. So I want to move on from that because that's the my drop moment. Yeah. Christine, tell me about your son. Devon Devon was a larger than life little boy. He was full. He was the typical child who was 80D couldn't sit in the chair.

Dreams bigger than anything. He wanted to be. He would always say when he grows up, he wants to be

as a boy. He's a crying monster crying. But here's a little boy. He used to always say, when he grew up, he wanted to be a vegetarian. What that meant is he wanted to be a veterinarian. So he would always say he wanted to be a vegetarian. And then as he got older, he was the one that was tapping the desk, jumping out of a seat, and like any mom, I'm trying to find what is going to work for my child to get him through the school systems.

He was bullied as a little boy because he was a big boy. We need tall.

He was always taller than his average peer. So he was asked to be in sports.

And he wasn't just sports kid. He was sensitive. He was a musician. He loved the animals.

“One of the earliest stories I remember of Devon, that I told at his celebration of life,”

he came home from school one day and he was really upset. There were those satiers. And I said, "Death, what's wrong with him? Tell me what's going on with you." And he said, "One of the kids are that they pushed me down on the playground. And they were making fun of me." And I said, "Well, what happened?" And he said, "I was pushing as a social needs kid on the swing set." And they said, "If I played with that person that I can't be their friend." And so he always said,

was diagnosed with breast cancer. And so Devon was eight at that time. And we went through he saw firsthand what cancer can do to somebody. I had a niece and a nephew that were ten months old and three years old when my sister was diagnosed with cancer. She thought a hard battle for four years and then she asked away. But I ended up being one of the primary caregivers for my sister's kids at that time. So emotionally I was all over the place. My sister died in 2007 and then in 2008,

Devon's dad was diagnosed with a cancer. That was, we were told, was the terminal cancer. It's small to me, my Loma. So Devon was only 12 years old at that time, 13 years old. He had an older person

“introduced him to marijuana. And so he was young, he was 13, 14. And you have to remember where I am”

emotionally. My sister just died. I was told that the dad isn't healthy. Emotionally, I was processy. And so when I found out the Devon was using marijuana, I did a scared straight program. Like I did what the professionals told me to do. Because I knew I couldn't parent him on

my own. I knew it was too much for me. So we sent him to a wilderness camp, which ultimately he

enjoyed the wilderness camp. But he also felt abandoned at that age. How old was he? He was 14, 13 or 14. I'm going back in my brain. But it wasn't the wilderness camp that made him

“filled up a field of abandoned. What made him fill abandoned, we had to work through this and counseling ourselves.”

Is how I went about getting him to the wilderness camp. I was told, medically, just to do whatever I could to get him. So at this point, Devon's like 14, he's six to I basically told him we were going to Arizona, got him on an airplane, met with the wilderness camp there. And then they took him for a 30 day program. I never gave him the opportunity to tell me

he wasn't going. I never sat down with him and said, "I can't do this." I basically said,

"I did with the medical procession." I was told me. Can I tell you something? I need you to leave that with me. You did nothing wrong. No, I tried to protect my child, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's still hurt him. And it doesn't take away from the fact that

“it still caused him a abandonment. Devon and I worked through it. And the only reason why I think”

it's important to tell this part of the story, because his families go through struggles with their loved ones. I have to take him ownership and where I hurt my child doing the best I knew to do. No, no, I can't hear it. I don't even have an ear for it. But it gives him an opportunity to heal and it gave me an opportunity to build that bridge. We did the best. I did. I don't feel guilty. I don't feel guilty. Is it ideal to be able to sit down with your child and get him on board

with the decision? Absolutely, it is. That's ideal, okay? But by hook or crook, it's so dangerous. It was that kid help because we're out of time. Yes. As you know. Yes. Right.

What's in there? It's been a long time. I feel like Devon never, how could I say this? Devon was

introduced to, he came back home from the wilderness camp and he was clean for a while, but then his dad had the opiates from his cancer treatment. And so now Devon's 15 and curious and still in pain and still, we have cancer going on in our home. It was not the perfect home life given the trauma

pain meds and I didn't understand it was the opiates who's oxycodone. So as soon as we figured

“out what was happening, I started walking everything up, just walking everything up, not understanding”

what withdrawal look like. So he went to the streets. He did go to the streets. And when he went to the streets, he was 15 years old when somebody injected him with heroin, 15. And so I tell this story, my not makes me cry sometimes. I tell this story that Devon chased sobriety and I chased him and going through the story as parents, you do hear all types of things about how what I should be doing with my son. We sent him to wilderness camp, we sent him to boarding school. I we sent him

to sober levees. He went in and out of rehab. And I'm not being sarcastic when I say honey.

“Okay. About 18 times. I get it. I get it. Eight or 18. No about 18 times. He was sober as much as he was”

relapsed. So did he how old was he when he when he was murdered? He was 28 years old. And it is and it that is the right. That's the right one. It is the right one. The our boys were poisoned. They were they were taken. There was that Devon was going to rehab the next morning backpack. And my son was had just left rehab and they were their poison. They were murdered. People were taken from us. That happens to us all the time. At Carrera, we try to get people in the door

immediately. Okay. We have already had at least two and maybe three circumstances where people made an appointment to come to rehab and not just got in the car and went. Right. Okay. And we're like calling

to reach them and finally we get parents and they're like oh my kids dead. No. He died.

I would call like on the road with him driving. I'm coming wherever we're going and I'm like I'm screening. You get my son in now or this is going to be like when especially when there was a psychosis happened, which I witnessed first-hand, which I now watch to raise awareness for the weed psychoses, which is that was where it started for my son for Dylan. And it's I was trying so I was racing like cops crying and screaming and they were just like is he is he using now or I didn't know what he

was. I didn't know what a psychosis was. I do now. I do know now. But it's only like now after, but it was like I was I can see the train coming and calling on the phone to get him and you know

“get him where you need to go and it's it's awful. So the reason the people were abusing you online”

is because the marijuana psychosis is rare. It was more and more. It's very it's not. Again. It's rare. Yeah. Yes. Okay. It's it's it's look. Right. It's happening. Yes. Okay. But it's rare. Yeah. I don't know

what the numbers are. But it's not half and it ain't a third and it's not a corner. No. Okay.

It's it's somewhere below 10%. It really is. I don't know where it is, but that's my experience. So what I want to know is how how Katrina, how did your how was your child? What did he do to die? Did he ingest a pill? That's unknown. I do not know. I just know. Did you have a toxicology report? Yes. What did the toxicology report say? He had 0.014 alcohol. He had Delta 9, Delta 10. He had I had it. I could read it. But then the 11 and G M L of F and and so it's two milligrams.

Four a lethal dose of that. How much did he have? 11 and G, which is a nano milligram. What did they say he died of? He succumbed to his respiratory because all combined the alcohol and he was tired. I can see that he had cut. He left rehab. He was it was like he was out of his time of I can outrun this and he had left his father's dad and put him in rehab. He left and we had just done that like two weeks prior with me. At our we live in California as dad's in Arizona.

I can I can I tell you what it was? What I think it was? Yes, it was the combination.

But it was predominantly opioids. Okay. It could have been heroin or anything. And the reason it was. Okay, is because his respiratory system slowed to the point where it stopped. Yes.

“And that's and that's what happens. A heroin addict, right? What fuels the best for an”

intravenous heroin user is to get his close to dead is humanly possible without actually dying. That is the sweet spot. That's what feels the best. So lay people don't understand that unless you're on it unless you've had that physical experience. Right. Okay. I want to I want to

get back to Katrina. When did you first realize something was really wrong with Dylan and what did

that journey look like trying to help him? It really took us I mean it was shocking when it presented Dylan decided to leave California to go at 20 after breaking up with a girlfriend to Arizona or instead had moved. So there was the breakup there. So it was yes I knew he did smoke weed. We thought that I thought that was the lighter thing but because he didn't do anything that was

“he was graduate. He was meeting markers. He graduated high school. He went to video, you know,”

editing film, editing school where he was going to pursue that but he didn't but he did complete it. He was the girlfriend really kind of covered that because they had friends and they were happy. There was no real science that there was a problem that wasn't until like I said he went away to Arizona. He came back this girlfriend had there was a breakup. She had met someone else that was that pain but so he came back to live with us in California and it was it was like overnight

the alcohol for him was the fuel and it was it was it was up it was so he came back with like just overnight it was a it was a it was a disaster. My my baby was like on his eyes changed. He was drinking. I found bottles in his room of vodka. He couldn't get his girlfriend back. He was they were under the bed. They were under his you know he was highlighting playing video games and

“we were trying to get him to get out and get you know. What did you do? What did you do for a living?”

Well in restaurant stuff just working like you know working part time doing like a really easy stuff you could do where he could still continue to drink. He was doing like how often. What age did he pass? 28. 28. 28. Both of you guys were 28. This story how the story how Katrina and I met is very interesting. We're the boys friends. No. No but interesting enough going back in my brain. I'm sure that Devon and Dylan both quit the same sober living house at the same time. We have a

memory of that like interaction there's heard maybe giving Dylan a ride. He was at Abbott's skateboarder. So his whole life was very adventures like he would jump off of roofs into open and pool. So he was like so nothing other than just he had it out go very outgoing or garious personality beautiful larger than life. He could have you know and I mean he covered any magazine just beautiful inside and out like

happy always laughing. Love to make people laugh and he he loves skateboarding. I mean he could have gone

Crow had he gone that way but the girlfriend really was a if I say a trauma hit and then we had a if he lost his grandparents to double suicide when he was 14. So that was like down there and there was this stuff that was down there. So when the guys don't have any good news you guys have nothing but bullshit news you got to have had a real hard time. We've had a very very hard time but the good news is how we survived this is we have to reframe it and I went right I firmly believe

that Gavin and Dylan up and have been giving each other high fives because they brought the true of us to get so random how we did get come together that it's there's no coincidences in this and they are they did struggle and they did get poisoned that this is the time of have they not our boys would have been I mean this wouldn't have happened it just just wouldn't have been had it not and so those boys those boys want us to support each other and they're giving us the opportunity

through these podcasts through the sharing through the community outreach to be here for each other so I'm not alone you know Katrina's not alone and their stories are beautiful be you know alongside of the other yeah the alongside the things we're sharing now that you know are like

an incredible science they are you know just the they knew we were they knew we were struggling with just

“like finding that like you want to you just you feel lost and I didn't you wanted like to hear someone”

else had had the you know same age and the decay and that all this was just they we met each other over the internet yeah and we lived within two miles from each other there's no way our son stories can't just sound just you know I just will say along with all of the you strive the struggles of trying to save and rescue your talk when they have addiction issues which they the boys did they they they found something that unlocked that key inside of them

that covered and took away that pain for them and books are written that they pair all the stories we know but with our boys they also shared with us and a huge gift of love and light and they were pure like they just were they they wouldn't they wouldn't they would give

“their things to other people they were these they were that's what they want us to do is help”

other moms survive this when you get that call you are you're you're your your life is over I want I want to be here I wanted to be hooked up to machine I was that was it so what do you wish more people understood about addiction from a parent's perspective don't shame the parents don't shame the parents who are trying to help them it's the only illness that I know who shame you for trying to help your son oh gosh it's the comments the people make

well you're damn if you do you're an if you're navel you're an enabler and now the time effect gives you no if they leave the house there's a risk of them at any second taking something that someone gives them a minute you guys hold on you guys didn't have a podcast until after

“your children were murdered okay so please help me to understand who gave you grief over”

getting your children help first and foremost it's us it's ourselves as a mother we're here it's our job to protect our children thank you it's us thank you but it is you do lose social you do lose your friendships you do lose people that can't they can't walk with you and breathe and there is a shame around addiction and passing of it so even during the time of my son struggle I kept a lot of that to myself without sharing it even with my closest friends because one I didn't

want it to be something he overcame and we fixed and he didn't want this out there and have it be his life told so he had that but we keep it to ourselves we run in a million miles a minute we go to work while we're doing it and we try to put a smile on our face while our baby is our

child is always our baby did you go get did you go get therapy with him I did I started Allen on

okay did you guys ever go to therapy with your children okay I'm a little different in that my my Dylan did not he was opposed to therapy he was he very much so had the psychosis he was diagnosed with schizophrenia form which is that in use he denied he walked out of rehabbed over and over because his mind told him he did not need to be there or take medication to stabilize his brain so we were it was a dual diagnosis and his mind told him he did not need help

today about 75% of the people that come into treatment have a dual diagnosis okay so that's not rare at all can can can can can you walk us through what happened the day you lost them and how quickly things unfolded so I threw up in the shower for our to my brother came from living a small we lived in my anyways he came from where we lived growing up and he he lives at raising a family there he showed up everything was a blur and I thought in my mind I thought

that's it I'm going to go to hospital now and I will just be out of the shame for the rest of my life it was going to be that was in my mind I went to ER and I I just couldn't even process that this I that I would ever go past that day my life was over it's the real something comes over you where you are not you're walking if you are in a yeah I just I still feel I could I still feel sick not just thinking about how that moment felt do you guys feel good about doing this podcast

not always no not always no thank you for saying that because there's no way you feel good about this

you have to do it because your heroes people listen people watch and you're going to save

I've shared with Christie since we've gotten to know each other and it's been under a year that we you know when we first met it really sort of was just this like organic a sharing our story that we felt not you know not ashamed we felt we were understood and just that the words

always you know everything with again none of that was being talked about so she's hard to

have to hear me share my I'm I'm hiss I'm angry that I was actually writing on my social media time was spent like why are the borders open why and I was seeing things I was seeing like crazy things happen where my son did not want to get in the COVID when COVID hit he got told to leave a rehab because he wouldn't get vaccinated these are things that happened that I was I was like ready to write led I was you know I was I was becoming that person that was going to go to the White House

and write you know what's going on can I ask you question when was the first time you put your son into therapy he was 13 when they went and it wasn't enough okay I know I understand that how long did he go for not long enough they went for about six months okay therapy isn't something you have to do it's something you get to do it's the ultimate luxury there is no shame in going to therapy it's the way elegant people deal with their stressors and I want people to know that at the first

sign of a problem the very first sign yes in the immediately go to therapy and then you gauge it

“to see what's going on to determine whether or not you need to send them to rehab now there's a”

kick caveat to that the caveat is what you catch him using okay that's the caveat if it was marijuana or drinking you're going straight to the therapist if it's pills or powders okay you go and straight to rehab that's the rule okay but you guys didn't know this then you guys did everything you could you are good mothers you did the best you could I'm sorry honey it's okay we don't know you got no less parents we don't feel like that but it doesn't matter how you feel your grief is

your feelings are valid but they're not facts okay and I'm and I'm telling you you guys did the best you could you didn't sit there and do nothing oh I you know how difficult it is it's 24 years a day I deal with these kids all the time they don't want to hear it they aren't told that it you know all these things okay and they just don't listen and if you have a kid

“like that you are in you have to be on it and you cannot make a mistake because it's that type of”

child and that is why you can't like um okay I started Allen on and in Allen on very early on it was it's a hearing stories like where the grandmother was sharing how they had kidnapped their granddaughter get them across the border to a T one a rehab because she refused to go and I

thought to myself like it it all it's things you never ever think you'd even ever hear in your life

these things that are that happen but when when someone is addicted or they are they're willful and and that's like you said it feels like you're being it's the manipulation it's all that but there's this love that is there to save them there is no right or wrong way you if they're but again they if they don't go to rehab come on yes I did right this is this is it was 23 when I said no more and I said I will not pay for you know unless it's so relieving and rehab he was

couch serving with friends all that it goes on and on I will pay for fines I will never let you

not go I will never let you go hungry you'll never have I mean I that we all those things we did

this is this is Allen on thinking that was that was like did you throw him out of the house yes take away his credit cards gas card yes then the DUI started happening and then we wouldn't help with any more all that was done then he's you know it's it goes on and it was on and it was you read the right thing it's still ended in the cis way that's exactly right that's exactly right

“and that's why we're here to advocate for how to take care of yourself during the process because”

we didn't have people helping we were like she's was struggling with life she shared as the things we all have on our lives are all different but we're all the same in one way that life does have to

to help make sense that she's an airline tent put on your oxygen mask first you have to if you're a child walking with their pee you've got to go get Allen on you've got to go get a way to find that

you can first of all feel you're not alone in this awful run for you know every day you never know

what's coming and it is it's it's one day at a time but you are in a run and it is the most painful journey I would of anything that I can think of what are you guys doing right now for your own mental health okay because you're enjoying yourself every time you have this conversation

“and you can't let it go which means you're not living you're existing I think that there's a”

difference between existing and thriving and for me I have other children I do have other children but the morning Devon died that individual that Christy died as well I am not the same person when Devon was alive and that those moms are gone that version of that mom is gone and in that in that death of Devon I have to allow myself

grief there will always be a part of me that walks through the rest of this life on earth

with pain in my heart that that's that's a given I'm always going to carry a little bit of sadness

“with me but my other children deserve a mom they deserve a mom that still honors their life”

they're on this side they are here and it's not my children's responsibility to take care of me emotion it's my job it's their mom to say I'm still here I still honor you what are you doing I go to Allen on and I still share with many people the part for me my faith is carries me and that is what I do share with anyone that wants to be there isn't therapy am I in therapy are either of you in therapy I know I do have a therapist okay you often you go to your therapist

I go to my therapist not probably enough okay so I'm going to ask you a question three times a week I go three times a week and I own the finest drug and alcohol treatment facility in the world and newsweek just called me the King of rehab I am the most over theorized person on the planet because I need containment and I want to be the best version of myself okay you want to go to a therapist has that therapist lost a child that hold on a second has that therapist

been through my addiction and we can all find you a therapist that lost their child how's that well if that exists then I would go hey guys I'm not beat me up I think you two are the salt of the earth you're the best women I've ever spoken to and I've done this a little bit now okay my heart breaks for you

but I want to get to the living part because this isn't you're never going to get past this

ever that's a true statement like that's a true statement forward Christy you're doing the right thing because you're showing up for your other kids okay so that in itself is healing okay

“but the two of you need to go to therapy you have to this is a non starter you can't sit here”

what you guys are doing right now is a gift to humanity but it's injuring you every single time you open your mouth I just agree I'm sorry so it's time because it's time we we first like as I said I take everything to the Lord for me so whoever whatever you choose for your higher power whatever that source is for me I know that this is not a punishment that this is not something that I'm going to be that this is what that I'm not the only one I know that there are children dying around the world

there are people dying in war this this is a this is a weapon and mass destruction for this generation and if anything this has created in me an ability to use a voice that was dampen down so

a briefly treat space I go up to the mountains I'm alone I go into nature I go into peace I

“prayer meditate and I will be and I am a stepmother I am a wife I own my own business and I keep”

going because I know that God wants me to you guys need a therapist and I would suggest okay Mondays and Thursdays and you know what if we can't find someone who has lost their child how about we find someone okay that fits someone that's had this experience with other clients someone who knows what they're talking about a good therapist depending on on the therapist can do grief counseling while moving you forward but we are moving forward so I'm not

you I'm not moving forward and I will tell you why I'm not moving forward before you do that I don't want you to forget what you're saying okay okay okay if you're not with the therapist then you may be moving forward incrementally but you will get relief and that's what I want for you listen I love God more than anybody okay more than anybody talk to him all day long

never talks back to me still waiting okay but here's the thing he wants us to have relief

you want to say okay I'm telling you he does

“yeah I believe that that's right now I am sorry that's what did you”

I was saying that there is a part of me that I have put on pause and part of the reason I have paused is because I'm in the middle of a court case and if I am completely transparent there's a part of me that is scared of the pain I feel so if I keep it then I box I can go to work I can put on I have big face I can be there for my other children but that Pandora box that can open up scares me and I know it's limiting but in my coping mechanism I think that the heart

and the brain I have to swore between the heart and the brain is that it only lets a certain

“amount of pain in at a time so I can continue to be functional I'm not saying it's right and I”

agree that I do need there in a court case you're in a court case and your son was murdered you need support I do I do I do I do I do just because you're in a court case does it mean you can't do two hours if there will be a week I that is what we're statement it's going to give you relief and I know you're scared I am scared I am scared what is okay one of the things I

used to always tell them and I need to do it myself is do it scared do it scared do it scared

because you know how you do it scared you just do it you're run through that wall you don't think about it you just do it I will take free for us I will take your suggestion I know I've interrupted you guys a bunch I know that I've come off harsh okay it's just I look at you guys and I'm trying to give you a little bit of relief and I see you guys in so much pain and stuck in it it's not that you're not doing God's work it's not that you're not doing the right thing

helping other people and it's not that you didn't do the right thing with your kids you did the best you could and you did great okay the results suck in the worst possible way but you did okay you did good really okay but I really need you to understand because really the only reason I'm on this call today is to give you guys something and the something that I want to give you is a new start because we only get one go with this okay we only we only get one turn at life

we're all here on loan okay and you guys are doing good but at the end of the day okay you're grief-stricken and I just wanted a little less just a little less every week

and it'll never go away ever but I want you guys to have a life so you can show up for the

“other relationships in your life and show up for yourself and I want you to be happy and”

here's years a little leverage for you okay you will be able to help more people if you help yourselves so for me I have four years still it'll be a may 22nd 2022 is one my son passed that's coming up on so the anniversary dates all dates are hard birthdays and but this is the harder of them his transition home date and as I'm coming up on four years my next journey will be to start a grief-free treat I've already started that process I have already committed to

having people come and where mothers can come and we already have the space it's in the mountains it's very peaceful mothers can come together I've already had people reach out to where we could you know make the meals that our sons our children daughter sons love share time share stories share memories that's healing being in nature where there is no there's no noise it's not a podcast it's not the story it's not the ugly of what happened it's not the poison that's happening to some

everyday you can turn on the news that's the healing part if your sons could speak to people

“struggling right now what do you think they would say I think Devin would say I'm going to be”

yeah I probably could probably see listen to your mom but he would also say built the relationship

but yourself first the most important relationship is still in that you can have with yourself

and I think you would also knowing Devin's personality walk through life with kindness you it's just being kind is easier it's just easier on life and we're kind and when you show kindness to somebody else we need to turn that inward to ourselves because Devin was one of the kindest people I knew that he beat himself up so much and so it's giving ourselves grace as well yeah Dylan would say the same he would say first I know he would say first he said he took it too far

I heard him say that when I got that phone call I'm sorry mom I took it too far and he would say it's okay to be vulnerable and it's okay to say you need help

“and you need to say that when did he say when did he say he took it too far”

he would always say that that was I think he had two sayings growing up would be

I took it because he was a skateboard and there was a lot of action a lot of things all the time I took it too far and one more time or his two things he said he said one more time and that was because he liked attention he liked us to watch him do his tricks and but I took it too far was what came into my head immediately was I took it too far mom and I'm so sorry because you know you know that I was going to have to endure this now

so Dylan died in the height of just 2022 there was nothing being spoken of it at that time you couldn't see it on the news no word was mentioned of it I was Dylan leaving rehab no one in rehab at that time was saying there's this thing called said all that is like in a pill where you can smoke and it can be touched in another substance if he comes in contact with someone that's using something that's it was not being spoken of

I didn't I didn't know anything about it in the epidemic that it became and is the crisis that it is so that's to raise awareness for that we know again the people that have lost now are now the coming in also sharing their stories we were one of so many there's the walks the shadow proof walks there's walk for life there's united against there are it's the highest rate of deaths between 18 to 40 in ever of this of our lifetime we will look back at this time of life

as that there was so much that could have been done what why why it wasn't done and how it was allowed to get this far is is something that I like I said that is my fight that that is therapeutic in its own in its own right because it is a fire in me that I can use my voice my voice it does matter and I will not be silenced and I will break stigma and I will break shame because no mother should be shamed ever and however you you can get healed and be healed if the worst

that was unavoidable and a murder is is I have answered I have questions and I want answers so

“that's you know I'll continue until that until we get some one of the things I would like to say”

is to do scared do a loud recover out loud yes because in today's time it's either you recover you don't share your stories and you healed healed someone else I mean let's pass it on this is

it and this is like you know we're out of time well I wanted the things I used to always tell Devon

be ahead of it before it breaks your body or takes your life because the drugs are not harmless and to break the stigma there is no shame and being an addict some of the strongest of feudal I know all the sense of the people are those there's a reason the other thing I want to start into Christy but is that you know we need more accessible rehab not you know it would be great if everyone could go to a luxury rehab insurance cuts off for an apparent

this pain at 26 you're cut off so your pain out of pocket they need they need more IOP availability

they need immediate detox you can't wait for a bed every county every city every and especially a thousand knows where we live this is a wealthy area this should be every single street corner should have a detox to walk in and get something for anxiety and medication that's safe and won't kill you this when you're detoxing when you're detoxing this painful so let me tell you that's beautiful let me tell you what's out there okay there are certain

rehabs I know because I have one it's called one method center okay and you can go to this center

“and centers like it for like 500 bucks right and that pays your deductible because you have to pay”

the deductible right and then you get 30 days of free treatment right I mean this is this can work okay so where's that located well we're located in Chevy at Hills it's called one method center but anybody can call us at Krera or one method and if we can't help you we know where you can get help we refer people out all day long that we can't take it's not that it's not accessible it's just if you're not if you don't have if you're not in the rehab business or you haven't

navigated it for a long time you don't really know what's out there or how to find it and then what's worse than that is a lot of these places are not righteous no right so so devil is by broken at a rehab so I mean listen I just had a kid in my rehab that walked into my rehab and pulled out two people to go to another rehab okay it's lazy okay but there are some of us that are righteous that are doing it for the right reasons yes right I mean I sold my last business for a lot of money

I don't have to work I did it because the null crisis was here yes and this time I wanted to help

“the military and veterans and so that's what we use one method for and a bunch of the houses and we've”

got regular folks in the other ones so it's not just you know my high-end center it's not just that like you know what I'm saying and there's there's places out there and if anybody needs it anybody

you can always DM us or call us will always help refer you out no matter what situation you're in

the ways and that's so without there it's just the good ones are hard to find and I get it that's bad deal and it doesn't guarantee no it doesn't because one of the things if I'm able to say this rehab like you're saying is absolutely mandatory but what's also mandatory is after care and sure that comes in the form of therapy three times a week is the outer care relapse is our can be part of recovery but sometimes there's not always there's not always what I'm trying to say

is that there is no shame in reaching out so the after care supports the work you've done let me ask you a question you're exactly right let me ask you a question how many times had

Devon would he knew he would Devon wanted to be sober and he didn't always trust the IOP to get him clean

he knew he needed three halves it would take it would take convincing to get him there there wasn't there was a point for a small window where he said I'm tired of three halves I don't want to do this I don't want this to be my life I don't want to do this but he knew he knew the severity of his addiction and he didn't feel safe and IOP and then rehab he knew he needed three halves

ladies I want you to do me a favor I want you to tell people where they can reach you

and I want you to give them the name of your podcast but DK 85 podcast came about from Devon and Dylan at Katrina and Christy yes to honor our boys so she's a K and I am a K and both the boys are D's and 85 is our area code so DK 85 podcast breaking stigma because there is no shame in being a kindness compassion and just you know there is no right one way

there's no way guys so you guys went ahead and the community that you've developed for

“yourselves is support very much you guys what kind of support you are getting that's what I was”

referring to but I want you guys to before we get off I want to have an agreement okay we're going to have contract okay I want you guys for a year an entire year we'll give you back your misery okay for one year on Mondays and Thursdays or Tuesdays and Fridays I don't care I just want it spaced out so you have time to process okay I want you guys going to a therapist okay we'll look for one okay but guys this is the type of a thing where you have to go to a couple

therapists okay my ticket month or two to find someone you align with okay someone who you feel safe talking to who's nurturing but won't sit there and let you vent the entire time one thing at a time this is this is your problem now let me help you right size right size this thing okay I'm asking you to do the right thing for yourselves and this is why we're here you know if you believe in God okay then you're awake okay yeah I'm awake okay this is the only reason I'm here today yes

“nothing to do with any of this today you know at the end of when I do something I go oh that's why”

I was doing that today so I want to have a contract are you guys willing right away when we get off the phone when we get off this thing I want you guys to immediately start looking for a therapist I will do the same okay but I need you guys to do it with a sense of urgency will you guys make that commitment to do twice a week for a year yes I want I want to I want to be a better person of course we do not break contracts with ourselves I will not break

a contract my days might have to be back to back with my schedule but I will go twice a week

“whatever you need to do okay whatever good all right I feel good about this ladies”

thank you for sharing your son stories and your stories and I feel hopeful for you I think what you guys are doing is heroic letting everybody know about your grief so that other parents don't have to go through the measurable pain that you're going through it is yeah you guys are the best

as long as we can to just to make that point excellent see you next Tuesday okay thank you

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