The Crime Scene

- Hello. - Hey, is this Cindy?

“- Yes. - Hey, Cindy, my name's Charles Dowdy.”

I'm working on a podcast about Roxanne Shaw. - Yeah, I am. I'm with Wayne for you, Paul. Any individuals mentioned in this podcast are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. This case remains an active ongoing investigation

and all discussions are based on publicly available information, investigative updates, and legal proceedings were applicable. The goal is to seek justice, provide awareness, and encourage the public to come forward with any relevant information.

This podcast does not make any allegations of guilt against the individuals discussed

and is intended for informational purposes only. - Yeah, I was closer to him. He was more friendly, he was more open, and more kind-hearted, but not that she wasn't mean. I mean, she was just tough, you know, and, and then we moved. So I don't know if they stayed there, and then I heard what happened to her.

Of course, like everybody else did, and I thought it was fall. That's, I thought, and we moved this to that. - Cindy was 12 or 13 when she spent time with Roxanne Sharp, although she admitted being closer to Roxanne's brother. We've talked to a few people who said that, maybe,

Roxanne kept a little distance. - She was kind of tough, kind of, well, she was a little hoard, but she did laugh, and she was a fun, but she was a little distant, and kind of a little bit to herself, more than the rest of us. There was a group of us that hung out, and there was summertime that year,

that went around with her, and we would walk to a creek down, over the railroad tracks, and through the woods, and swim in a creek, and she,

“I remember her last, and then, um, to have been fun with that, and, uh,”

I'm Charles doubting with North Shore Media Group, and this is our fourth episode about an unsolved murder from 1982 near the Fairgrounds in Coveington. If you haven't heard the previous episodes, then go back and start at the beginning, because this will not make a lot of sense. If you've been diligently listening each week, thank you.

Please continue to listen, comment, share, and like as much as possible. The more people who hear Roxanne's story, the better chance we have, to find someone who knows something that could help solve her crime. Cindy came forward after listening to the podcast and offered her take on Roxanne, and Louisiana State Police, investigator, Stefan Montgomery,

ran into a man named Rufus, who also knew Roxanne and her brother. The descriptions that both of these people gave us about Roxanne are somewhat similar. How did you know Roxanne? That was all lived there only, Rodin.

I was best friends with schools, stuff with her brother, and then got to know her, and her and my sister was comparing, she come to the house, and stayed. In the end, it was real tight. Describe performing. She was sweet, good girls, she just, she liked boys.

She liked to get high, messed up. What was her family life like?

“They wasn't rich, and I think I don't know what they had,”

I think it's just the mama raised them. I remember that daddy or not. Did she make friends easily? Oh, yeah, she a friendly person. Yeah, tell me about that.

She's a very friendly, I mean, she told to you. She hung around into ozone a lot. Not a lot, but she knows that. I mean, we all own radio, you know.

I mean, I know her by Eddie, I mean, I know Eddie first.

Then her and my sister got tightened. Anything else you remember about her, about her, how she looked,

It was, she was tough, oh, girl, you didn't just walk up to her.

And still, she, you weren't just slapping or nothing like that. She just slapped you back, but, uh, teachers, nice girl. If you could, if you could see her again, if you saw people,

“if you could see her today and tell her something, what would you tell her?”

I tell you, rock, shan, how you been? I love you. You think she deserved what happened to her? No. No way. You know, she was, she like boys, just don't, but not that way. Nobody's there with that.

This episode will be a little different.

For three weeks now, we've told rock sand story, really from the perspective of after the crime. Almost to try to explain the crazy situation after her death that may have impeded the investigation. And your response has been great. We've gotten plenty of good feedback

“and even a few tips. As Stefan Montgomery has made clear,”

in the case this old, any bit of information helps. Now, we're going to the crime itself, something terrible that happened a long time ago that we do not have a lot of information about. And I'm telling you now, I will make a few assumptions as we go through this one. Or at least I will try to explore possibilities

about what could have happened. Well, I need to make clear that I am the one making those assumptions unless otherwise stated. I told you, the police have been sharing some information with me and they have given me plenty of access. But their end game is a successful prosecution

of whoever killed rock sand sharp. And they are not going to do or say anything

“that would get in the way of that. So, as we look at some of the evidence,”

and as I make some assumptions based on what I see, know those thoughts are mine and mine alone unless you hear it said by one of the law enforcement officials. But we will start with something a little more absolute. As officers lay out the crime scene from a long time ago,

based on measurements taken when rock sand's body was discovered in 1982. I met with Louisiana State Police Investigators Stephan Montgomery and Covington Police Sergeant Bart Owen B. At the corner of East McGee and North Florida, right outside the St. Tammany Parish Fairgrounds.

We all parked beside a metal building and one of them went inside to explain what we were doing. In fact, one of them entered each of the neighboring buildings to check in with the people there and explain who they were and what they were up to. Well, what were we up to?

Finally, after all the talking and all the explaining and set up of the last three episodes,

finally, we were going to look at the actual crime scene itself. I was going to see where Roxanne Sharp was raped and murdered in 1982, and I wasn't really sure how I felt about it. Across the street for us was an open lot with a few small trees on it, a gravel drive and the rest of it grass. There was a utility trailer park there,

a boat on a trailer backed in nearby, and a bobcat on a heavier trailer near the open doors of the back of an auto repair shop. Small trees have been planted in a line a few years before that looked like they were trying to make up their minds if living was worth the effort. There was an auto-part store next door with both of these businesses facing Collins Boulevard, which we could not see, but we could definitely hear.

It was windy and Stefan wanted to pass around some documents, so we gathered in his truck to talk through what he wanted to do. He passed around a few overhead photos from 1982, and Stefan and Bart talked through how they would map out the scene. Alright, so that's the photograph that Henry Lucas was looking at that said it was by racetrack, the aerial photo, and then that's the same photograph. It's just a little more close up

and then that's the one picture of it looking down north Florida. Where is that? Where we are right now? So this is where this car is parked right here, it's right there. It's the corner. You'll be able to see it when we get out of here. So this is the actual sketch.

That's where we're parked right now. So from the middle of the intersection from McGee

“and North Florida, she's 119 feet east. Right, where's the north? Yeah, that's north.”

She's 119 feet east down this roadway. So what I figure we do is we'll just roll a tape out and to 119, get this her. Yeah, and put a mark on the road right there and then I've got the measurement here going down north Florida and then we're just, you know, we're rolling in like straight line in. Now, Greena, there was woods here at the time. So we're probably going to be, it's probably a little bit of a

approximating here, but I don't know how much of a straight line they could go, you know, they could go to.

How often do you all do this? I assume it's part of the, if there's a regular investigation. Yeah, we do it immediately. Right. When there's a regular investigation now. But of course, with the woods being cleared out now, we have the advantage of going directly to, you know, the spot, but we have the disadvantage of not knowing what it looked like trails in trails out. You know, apparently it was a bit of a clearing,

you know, at the time. So where she was found? There was a little bit, a little bit of a clearing

“here. And I don't think she's that far. I think she's up in here. When I say a clearing, I mean,”

just not, uh, just not thick brush. Yeah, just a, just a, just a bit of an opening into pine trees, mainly as what this was, was back then. It was a big stand of pine trees. But if you were cutting through that lot, where would you be going? So if you look at the dispoto right there, um, you see the fairgrounds on one side and you see Collins Boulevard and the ozone is on the other side. It was a big lot. And as they began getting themselves organized

to map it out, I thought about the question I had just asked. Maybe the wooded lot of wooded traffic are probably it gave a little cover if you wanted to miss behave.

“Got it. They called out measurements to each other, found the spot, shook the paint can and”

marked it. And he would call out what the marking signify. And that was the creepiest part of all. Now there are some uncertainties with a case this old, but not about the crime and where it occurred. Well, there's still things we don't know about this. And we're still working on what day and time is actually occurred. The evidence does clearly tell us that her rape and murder occurred at that location at the fairgrounds. She was not killed somewhere else and then brought

to that location. First, they located where the body had been discovered. I was surprised at how far

into the lot her body had been. The numbers on the report didn't sound like this much when I was looking at it from the road. When it was measured off, she was well away from either road, McGee or Florida. Now the other markings that signified other pieces of evidence kind of made a diagonal line from her body, a little more west than north toward Florida street. I was surprised that some of the marked locations were so close to the road compared to her

body, again, which was well into what was a bunch of woods. So we know the paints are hers, what had it best. But that was a sweater there, but you don't know if it was hers or not. And then one crime scene marker was put down around the corner on McGee Street, near where we had parked and another crime scene marker placed 300 feet down north Florida. That was a sweater, one that may have belonged to her. The rest of the evidence locations that were marked were solid.

They were rock sands. They were marking items that had been on her body and ripped off shoes, a belt, pants, her bra. They were the items found and documented at the crime scene in 1982.

And so when I was first approached to other officers came in, they had a file we were talking

about the potential to do this podcast. And one of the things they said to me and you repeated later was that you can see some of the photos you will not see the actual crime scene photos. And I have no problem with that. But one of those officers said it's something that once you see it,

“you just can't unsee it and there's no need for you to see it. And your reaction to that?”

100% accurate. You'll see it for the rest of your life. So there is no value in knowing more about her than what we've already said.

Yeah, we talked about this from the beginning. We're not going to sugarcoat what happened or the story.

But the details of that crime scene, one have significant evidentiary value for a prosecution. And to the, they bring, they add nothing more to the story we're telling. Okay. So we got out there. You and, and Sergeant Owen be walked off the measurements. You guys were pretty, you know, making sure that you were getting things in the right places. Once everything got on the ground and explained what that looks like, right? Because you were taking the,

“the, you know, you would take the spray paint and make a mark. And then you, what is that a little”

placard? What do you call that thing? Yeah, crime scene marker. And so you take each one of those.

It has a number. Talk about that real quick. When they took the, the measurements back in 1982, they used the center line of North Florida and East McGee Street as their point of measure. And they go so many feet down East McGee, they go so many feet down Florida Street and where those intersect is where that article was collected from. So what we did is we go out there. We roll off those measurements. And we put a marker down. And we do that for everything that was

collected or everything that was noted in the crime scene. We're looking at photos of entry ways looks, looks like trails into the woods, but we can't really tell where that's at. Until you start lining it up with landmarks and where where items were discovered. And then you start seeing the path that was taken into the woods. Once the crime scene was recreated, then they put up a drone. I mean, if we couldn't get it, if we can get an overall shot of

just this scene, and then if you can raise it up and get the aerial, I don't know how to wind is up up there. Pretty bad down here, but if you can raise it up and get an overview with the fairgrounds, so we kind of can lay it over the picture, the whole picture we have. Now, let's address why I keep connecting the body's location to the fairgrounds. The Covington Fairgrounds was kind of a popular place for these young adults to hang out

because they could rot around and cut up, they could drink and nobody really fooled with them up in there. We actually have some witness sightings of Roxy and in a truck with a guy named Darrell Spell Glen Loper, and a few other residents from the ozone area that hung together about three days prior to her body being found. But we also have a sighting of her after that at the Covington quick stop right there, Lee Road and hornsby. It's after that sighting within about two days of

her death that she seemed to disappear. After it was all laid out and you kind of got to see that perspective, there were a couple of things that jumped out at me, but what jumped out at you, like once you saw that. So it gives us a pretty good indication of where they entered the woods and how as they were going through the woods, clothing items were being discarded or removed from the victim. But then it also tells us how much further into the woods that she actually

“was when she was found. Any chance in your mind that those items were being removed willingly?”

I can't say that specifically, but by looking at the trail, I would say probably not. Do we know the temperature when this happened? We do. Investigators actually called the weather center and got the five day forecast from the highs and the lows and it had dipped down into the

as they were going into the woods. They weren't just getting naked in 15-degree weather.

“I want to get into some of the specific items, but can we go back real quick and talk about this”

weather? Because we did all these measurements, everything's kind of in a roughly the same area. And then you guys walked off a long way, measuring off where a sweater was found. Yeah, so when they went out there and then started collecting the items, they located a sweater that was probably a football field to length away from everything else and it was in a ditch. There has been some speculation that that may just have been a random

article of clothing that was there. Granted, it had rained by the time that her she was found

and items were collected so the ditches were full of water. So to this point, there's a question mark

“about whether that article actually belonged to her. However, her pants were also located the day after”

she was found. They went back out and located her pants and her pants were also in another direction away in the ditch. So that's where a lot of the mapping comes, becomes important. And the pants are almost in a sense around the corner from what we believe to be where they entered that would a lot. Is that fair to say? That's fair. The mother was she

able to identify the items that we're about to talk about the pants and did she say anything about

that sweater? She didn't say anything about the sweater but she had previously described what she was wearing her clothing, her jacket and her purse at the time that she was that she left home.

“Do you feel like there were articles of clothing missing based on what was recovered?”

It's possible. There's still some question mark about what shirt she was wearing at the time. Okay. So can we enter the woods? You know, just from that line of items that were left on the ground, can we just walk through those items and talk about what they were? So as you leave North Florida street the roadway and you are walking would be east or towards the Ozone area. You enter the woods, you enter this thick grass and brush and as it right as it

begins to open up, there is a trail of her shoes, her belt and her undergarments leading into into that wooded area. Then you go another 80 feet before you actually reach her body. Based on your experience, that amount of distance and I know she was not a large individual, but that amount of distance is it possible to carry someone slash drag someone that far that's trying to fight back? It's possible. It's possible. From my experience, I don't think that her clothes

are removed as cold as it was over here and then she willingly walked another 80 feet but that's speculation. It's time for some of those assumptions. Back in journalism school, I had this old professor who used to yell if you assume it makes a blank out of you and me, you can figure it out, but I'm going to do it anyway. Again, these assumptions belong to me alone. There would have been a couple of good reasons for Roxanne to be where she was, cutting through the fairgrounds to the old

Schultz Grocery where they used to get alcohol or more likely hanging out with some people she knew in the fairgrounds. I wonder if there was some kind of campfire. We know the people who found her body a few days later were actually looking for firewood. It was cold and there's nothing more southern redneck than a good tire fire. If Roxanne was hanging out in the fairgrounds on the night she was raped and murdered, then I would think that maybe they had more than whiskey and

drugs to keep them warm. Why does that matter? Because people congregate around a fire, especially when it's really cold. Maybe even people who did not come to the fairgrounds together or even know each other. There have been a few conversations about some hippy types who hung out around the fairgrounds around this time. No one has ever really accounted for them. Who were they? Did they see anything? Could one or more of them have done it? Maybe Roxanne was leaving the fairgrounds alone.

back to it. Prior to laying out the crime scene, my assumption had been they left the fairgrounds

on McGee. But if the sweater was hers, maybe they could across from the fairgrounds to North Florida. And if the sweater was taken off of her near where it was found, that meant she was carried or drug a long way. Just to get to the point where they entered the wooded lot. That's still left a question about her pants. How did they get where they were found around the corner from the entry point into the woods? Totally opposite where the sweater was found. Now, think about the

rape and murder of a young girl. Think about how clothes and undergarments were thrown through the woods.

Take my word for it that the rape and murder were beyond anything you want to imagine. Brutal

and showing a rage you wouldn't think a human being would be capable of. Does that sound like a

“couple of random people who happened upon a vulnerable young girl? I think this crime had been”

percolating for a bit. I think what ended with her rape and murder might have been visible back at the fairgrounds where other people could have seen it. Maybe some suggestive comments, maybe even an argument, or perhaps a rejection for others to witness. Now, let's talk about the purse. There's some really important details in here and stuff in Montgomery will explain. You had a list of items that were recovered at that scene and that list becomes important as you

kind of move forward with your investigation. Can you talk a little bit about how that has transpired? Well, the list of things that were recovered is one thing. The list of things that weren't recovered

“is probably way more important in disinvestigation. Can you elaborate on that?”

She left out carrying a little brown purse that had wooden handles and that was one that she carried with her most of the time and her mother was able to provide a description of what items that she typically carried in that purse. But the purse was not found. The purse was not found with her

at the scene or anywhere in the woods. And actually, the purse has never been found. However,

about a month later, there was a kid from the neighborhood who was going to Lee Road quickstop and seafood right there at the corner of horns, being Lee Road. And he saw a purse laying right there in the woods off the trail and he picked that purse up, opened it up, looked in it and he pulled out Roxanne's school ID. So the purse, you have a pretty good description of the purse that she had with her when she left

her home for the last time, has that purse been seen since? No. And if someone knew something about that purse, they saw someone else with it. They saw it somewhere with that have value to you.

“That would be extremely important to what we're doing here. So there was a list of items that”

you were trying to, or I'm going to let you elaborate on this, but you were trying to reconcile what was in that purse versus what was recovered. I came across this later in my investigation. There was a, there's an evidentiary seat of the contents of the purse. And you know, when looking through them, it's typical things that someone would have. There was some medication. There were some family photos and it was a picture of her niece. There was a picture of the

father of her child. There was a key. Just things that you would normally find in a purse. Well, in, in going over this stuff in the handwritten notes, I had come across a note from one of the investigators. And it was a list of similar items. And I made an assumption in just in quick, in looking over that at the time that this had just been transferred over to, you know, this was initial notes that had been transferred to an evidence receipt. But when I went

back and looked at it again later, I noticed that there are a couple items on this handwritten list that were not in the purse. And we're not listed on the evidence receipt. So I started pulling this out to figure out why. And I actually figured out that her mother had provided a list of the

a zip-o cigarette lighter that had her name engraved on it. And that cigarette lighter was not recovered.

It was not in the purse. And has never been found. That lighter had special value to her.

It did. It was given to her as a present. It had her name inscribed on it. And back at that time, everybody had a cigarette case. And they had a pretty decent lighter if they were a smoker. I know that my mom did and my family members all had, you know, they didn't just carry around the little bix that everybody has today. And apparently somebody had gifted her that lighter. The, you mentioned that it has her name on it. It does. So this will be what I imagine to be a

small little square or rectangular lighter that would say Roxanne. That's correct. And so if anybody has seen that lighter, that would have value. If anyone has seen that lighter or nose where that lighter is, I would ask you to please contact us. And it could have been left somewhere.

It could have been, it could have fallen out of the purse and never be found. Or it could have

been collected by the person who killed her as a trophy. So we know Roxanne had a, a very nice inscribed lighter. I also believe based on what you've told me already that there might have

“been a lighter recovered at the scene. Yeah, that's what was, that's what was odd is there was”

actually a big lighter that was at the scene right in the same area of her clothing. And so that lighter was probably dropped by someone, but then her lighter was missing. So it just throws up 10 more questions. Are there any other items you mentioned, some items that we're missing

from the purse versus the mother's list? Any other items that would stand out or need to be asked

about? Nothing that I'm aware of. So a purse and a lighter. Those are pretty solid. Now it's not much, but if someone knows something about either one of those, it could be huge for the future of the case. And yeah, I've been making some assumptions that could be totally wrong about how the crime was committed. But some people way better than me at this whole solving crime thing had to say in this two, the FBI weighed in on Roxanne's death way back in 1982. One of the things that the investigators

did was they reached out to the behavioral science unit with the FBI, which we know is the profile ers today. And FBI profiling was developed in the 70s and early 80s by some FBI agents who started studying serial killers and interviewing. They went to the prisons and started interviewing all these people. And they used, you know, they used that information along with some psychologists to really figure out the minds and the traits of these people and then use them towards unsolved crimes. There's

“a guy about a name of John Douglas who was featured and I think it's a show called Mine Hunter.”

And he was instrumental in solving the Atlanta murders in late 70s and early 80s in which were a bunch of children who were getting killed in Atlanta. And they actually solved they saw that crime with the help of John Douglas through the profiling program. So that's where they really got off the ground and it's who knows where they're at now with what they can do. But the basics are the same. They looked at, they look at the victimology, you know,

who was Roxanne, where she from, what's her background, what's her habits. And they look at things as they are to determine, you know, the very, the smallest of things that they look at those traits through a very clear lens. And they start looking around at who would be in a position

“and who would have the motive to do this. So what did the FBI say back in 1982?”

Here they're own words. From this summary, read by a narrator. This is a psychological profile of the subjects responsible for the rate and homicide of a 16-year-old white female. The crime was committed on approximately February 10, 1982, in Covington, Louisiana. The victim was discovered in a wooded area of Covington in the proximity of residential neighborhoods. The victim was discovered lying face up with both arms above her head with her jacket covering her

There are manifestations of more than one type of personality in this crime scene.

“Factors indicate that at least two individuals acting in concert were responsible for”

sharp's death and that others may have known of the events immediately preceding sharp's death. Sharp knew one or more of her murderers and might have rejected one of the individuals for sexual intercourse. This crime scene manifests two different personalities, both of whom knew and were

known to the victim. The location of the scene and the behavior manifested indicate the subjects

are unsophisticated, local, young men of normal to below normal intelligence. This act was unplanned, spontaneous, impulsive and the result of anger brought on by the victim's sexual rejection of the subjects. The blow to the victim's head indicates persistent refusal by the victim causing anger of subjects. The covering of the victim with a jacket indicates remorse, a fantasized

relationship with the victim and an inadequate personality.

So did Roxanne know her killers? It seems more likely that she did than not. Over the years has anyone seen that lighter, a nice zippo style lighter with Roxanne's name and described on it.

“Does anyone remember anything about that purse? And why would the purse be switched?”

Did someone come along Roxanne's purse on the side of the road and simply switch out hers with theirs? What else makes sense? Was there a gathering at the fairgrounds? Who were the hippies drinking at the fairgrounds around that time? Was there a fire at the fairgrounds for warmth? And did anyone witness Roxanne with other people right around the time she went missing? Who were those people? We have recreated images of what the purse or the lighter could

possibly look like and you can see them and more at WhoKilledRoxanne.com. Still have some loose ends at the end of this episode and the next episode the fifth is entitled Clearing up more loose ends. That's next time on WhoKilledRoxanne. WhoKilledRoxanne is a North Shore Media Group production, new episodes drop weekly, original music by Crestley Colora, connect with the podcast online at WhoKilledRoxanne.com. If you have a tip or information for Louisiana

State Police call 985-635-3167 or email North [email protected].

“What if I'm not in my say I am? What if it doesn't work out? What if I started the drought?”

What if I'm out of the things that make you want me? What if I'm not in my say I am? And I'm scared to admit that maybe this is as good as it gets, what if this is as good as it gets? And I'm feeling like you don't seem to me, maybe you don't need me and my talking just to talk. What if I'm not who I say I am? Who's I'm scared to admit that maybe this is as good as it gets, maybe this is as good as it gets.